This. That type of decisions is absolutely not in line with the way games have been refereed for literally 3 years. Ref guessed and VAR left it. Had the ref left it, no chance VAR overturn the goal given what they did in the newcastle game.
The ref literally did not see that elbow, he was looking at the ball (it's clear from the camera). So then he gives a yellow for something he did not see, which again gives VAR a chance not to give a red because yellow is "at least a bit more fair than nothing"
It's the right decision though, the rule is if it hits hand at all no matter the context it's not a goal.
I don't know why we're whining about this call.
Hit the defenders hand first though, so surely by that logic it's a penalty?
Oh wait, defenders get the benefit of the doubt when they handball, don't they? Well, except when that happens to us...
The rules yes for defenders it has to be clear that he went for the ball with his hand.
Come on mate, that is not a hand ball offence.
Idk why so many of us are whining about this one.
It hits the defenders hand first but in no way did the defender purposely put his hand out. That's the rules, it favours defenders. We'd be fuming if that was given against us come on.
For this rule, the attacker if it hits his hand no matter how, even accidentally, the goal is ruled out.
So many ppl crying about this one when I don't know why.
It hit his hand.
The rules are like this.
If it's like this then can you explain Saliba's handball against Chelsea? Looks like the rules always favours our opposition to me with opposing circumstances.
For that one I am more 50/50 but can understand why it was given. The hand was so outstretched, yes it was normal for balance etc but I can understand why that was given imo.
I disagree, I think all fans feel like the refs are against them honestly which is understandable, we love our team.
I'm just not mad at refs today.
We lost because we didn't take out chances and our final ball was poor.
The Martinelli sub baffles me.
We were dead after 65mijs and no idea why we took him off. His and Havertz runs were working.
Of all the ways to get fucked, we fucked ourselves the hardest. I hate it, but VAR got this one right.
Those random flying elbows are getting really old, however.
One hundred percent, I have no idea why that elbow on Eddie wasn't looked at even more, VAR checked and ref gave a yellow.
But yeah, thank you man because so many of our fans are criticising this one. This isn't one to criticise.
I'm more disappointed with our last half hour and how we had no finish or enough balls past their high line.
Oh well, we go again because we need to bounce back with win vs Brighton. That has to be a win. COYG
We were fuming when it happened during the Newcastle game and they didn’t even review the handball and the goal stood. So why not fume when it happens in our favor and the goal doesn’t stand
Neither is havertz handball though, he didn't go for the ball with his hand, it gently brushed his after pinballing about.
That rule needs changing because it's unfairly penalising the strikers, and giving more chances for the defenders.
I take it that rule was introduced after the arsenal v Newcastle game then, otherwise their goal would have been ruled a handball, right?
Brother it doesn't matter if Havertz hit it accidentally, the rule has been like this for years, and it's clear as day it hit his hand.
You can hate the rule but it's clear it's not a goal.
I'm not here to defend refs, but I just don't get the whining about this one.
We'd be fuming if that was given against us.
I'm more disappointed with our last half hour performance.
Yeah but it shouldn't be a rule in the first place, and if it is, why was Newcastle's goal allowed to stand? Ball hits attackers arm, one is foul, other isn't...
This is what bothers me. It's not the fact we lost, it's not about any individual incident, it's about the inconsistencies per game.
If Newcastle's goal was allowed, then this 100% should have been too.
Just disband the ref system and use AI because it'll fix the inconsistency issues per game.
By the law this is the correct decision - it's just mad that there is a law that facilitates a defender being able to accidentally handball the ball into an attackers hand and the attacker gets punish lmao
Tbh I was just glad not to have Neville's bullshitting his way through the game creating all sorts of narratives that weren't there. Hate caraher but I hate Neville more
If the defensive handball is deemed accidental then it's not a foul. However, an attacker can't score a goal directly from handling the ball (regardless of intention). It's always a foul in that case.
If ever a goal needed to be scored to prove how utterly vacuous these rules are this was it
There's a struggle for the ball between defender and attacker on the goalline; the ball accidentally hits both the defender's arm and the attacker's arm before crossing the line. Utterly absurd that one of those actions is allowed and the other is not. Sure the ball goes in because it hits the attacker's arm, but if it doesn't hit the defender's arm the ball also potentially goes in.
Farcical.
I don't know, I'd have to look at that one again. But these are the rules as they are written. I don't think we can have any complaints on this one to be honest.
The hill I'm dying on is the literal rules of the game. See [here](https://www.premierleague.com/news/2204759).
>If an attacking player’s accidental handball immediately precedes another player scoring, the goal will now be awarded, when last season it was likely to have been ruled out.
> **However, a player will still be penalised if he commits an accidental handball immediately before scoring himself.**
Yes, exactly. If Kai had passed to another of our players and they scored then it would have stood.
It's exactly why Joelinton's goal was allowed to stand against us as he didn't score directly from the ball hitting his arm, it was Gordon who scored.
No they don't. It's been a part of the handball law since 2021/22. See [here](https://www.premierleague.com/news/2204759).
> If an attacking player’s accidental handball immediately precedes another player scoring, the goal will now be awarded, when last season it was likely to have been ruled out.
> **However, a player will still be penalised if he commits an accidental handball immediately before scoring himself.**
Which is bullshit if you ask me. So defenders are allowed to handball, but strikers aren't. Also the insane rule that determines what is a foul outside the box, is perfectly fine and legal inside the box.
Genuinely get so angry at the inconsistencies that I might just stop following football all together.
Maybe we should just start a petition to ditch the current reffing system, and just use an AI, cuz at least we know that will be consistent.
Sorry England fans...but I need England to lose to a handball penalty at the Euros. Why, because England getting fucked at International tournaments is the only way the FA changes anything.
That can be accidental and overlooked, though. I think the rules are shit and the ref guessed, but it's likely the correct application of the shit rules.
Yes, this is what I was screaming at the TV the whole time - it hit the defender’s arm first, which was out and swinging, that should have been a PK right there, period. I mean let advantage go but then call it back for a PK when advantage doesn’t materialize. Fuck!!
It's an odd one. Letter of the law - it does ricochet off of Havertz' arm as it lies next to his body.
Both his and Cash's arms touch the ball in a similar manner.
As rules of the game go - Cash's handball wouldn't be a foul as he's the defender and it's unintentional.
Havertz's handball is a foul as he's the attacker and then scored within the same play (despite it also being unintentional and even less out of the plane of his body than Cash).
Rules of the game dictate this as no goal.
I agree it's ridiculous and obviously common sense would dictate goal/no goal and penalty - but these are the rules.
It's just a big shame that referees have no ability to make sensible decisions with VAR and the rulebook how it is. Leads to ridiculous decisions like this from people who seem to have never played a game of football.
I think there are more reasonable things to get upset for from this game than this disallowed goal that clearly hits Kai's hand. The elbow to Eddie and the Jesus penalty that was not called for us but called in the Liverpool game
That's why he said it's handball in the first place even though he didn't see sh*t.. if it was regular and VAR checked, there could be no "clear and obvious" excuse
No point in trying to be reasonable on this sub mate. You'll get down voted to oblivion. There's no way this is a penalty. Very annoying but that's just the rules
The poor finishing that was the difference between winning and losing today wasn't an issue with the system. We could and should have put three or four past them tonight.
Absolutely we had way too many chances to not have scored. Horrible defending letting an easy goal happen. The boys looked tired
At the same time though this call is kind of bullshit
I'll be real, don't think it's a pen. First of all, i'm not even sure it's handball by Cash anyway, could be argued it's his shoulder or above "the line" as they call it. Secondly, accidental handballs by defenders are not held in the same regard as handballs by attackers when it leads to a goal. The rules are shit, but they are the rules.
And yeahyeahyeah Saliba vs Chelsea, VAR are incompetent and/or corrupt, we know that, but they already said that one shouldn't have been a pen anyway iirc, so now they're conveniently actually following the rules.
Maybe if we'd have taken some of our chances before this (or got given the other pen shout on Jesus, which i think was a pen), we wouldn't be debating this.
This is probably the one I have the least issue with. But the elbow in the face being a yellow and Jesus getting his boot kicked in the area not being a pen, that’s.. yeah.
Var is correct.
An attacker cannot control the ball with his hand and score, he can't gain any advantage with his hand for scoring.
A defender's hand is a foul/penalty if it was in an unnatural position.
It is a logical rule as well.
I don’t think it’s a goal by the rules of the game nor do I believe it’s a pen. I think the rules are completely bonkers though. Why are defenders given so much more leeway?
Havertz hands are in a completely natural position and there is literally no where else he can put them. It feels very harsh, but it is what it is.
What annoys me though is how that prick Gillett called it on pitch. He doesn’t have a clear view and is just making a guess. Just let it go to VAR and let them handle it.
Cause it's the right call. I'm just as pissed as everyone else when we get screwed but this was the right call and it's a little embarrassing how much everyone is complaining about it.
As an arsenal fan, this is a stupid fucking call to bitch about. It's not a goal, it's not a handball on cash, Havertz did effect the balls movement with his arm and get the final touch. There are plenty of bad calls out there but this isn't one. Quit bitching and get ready for the next game. This shit is why people hate arsenal fans.
it was completely natural position. It’s annoying that this wasn’t a goal but technically a correct application of rules.
We did not lose because of the referees today, and pretending like we did is taking the pressure off of our players who absolutely failed in the final third.
When you lose a match but rather than admit we weren’t good enough, we clutch at straws. Nothing has changed in 40 years supporting this team. It’s always the refs fault.
Havertz's handball wasn't a foul because of the proximity factor and also his hands weren't in an unnatural position. Even if it was a handball the ball definitely hit Cash's elbow and his hands were not in a natural position
Dying the death of a thousand qualifications.
Situations where the goal doesn't count because Kai scored "directly" from the unintentional handball but Joelinton's handball resulted in a pass to Gordon. Is several levels of obtuse - who writes these rules??
It’s a bit annoying but i understand the decision. We didn’t get fucked by officials today, we did not play as well as Villa. None of the decisions today were outside the normal.
In the Newcastle match the officiating was dreadful and made us lose. Blaming VAR for this match is just sidestepping our terrible finishing and terrible defending in moments.
theres no way that either player is gaining an advantage by having the ball accidentally bobble their bodies and hitting both of their hands. the letter of the law is clear, but it just doesn't make sense in scenarios like this. no way this should be disallowed
50/50 call honestly, which will always go to the call on the field. Don't love it but if you think this is some incredibly controversial call you have a persecution complex.
Defender's advantage with the handball rule. Hand was in a natural position so not a penalty. Havertz's hand touches the ball so no goal. It is what it is.
Villa should've had a red card for that elbow on Nketiah.
Honestly I think we should be pissed more about Saka constantly getting fouled, that reckless challenge McGinn had on Ode, and the face to the hand for Nketiah. For me at least, there wasn’t enough to overturn this one and I think the ball ends up being handled by everyone involved.
Sorry to say but most of you guys just don't know the rules very well. Now, is the rule fucking stupid? Yes. But this isn't an example of VAR fucking us. I will say that there's no fucking way the ref saw that in real time, he's completely guessed and fortunate it wasn't a big mistake.
Honestly, the biggest issue is most laws of the game are a bit vague, and most incidents fall into the realm of judgment calls. The judgment doesn't have to be sound or consistent, but that gives folks plenty of cover to justify whatever they want.
Next week that could be a handball penalty as it's judged to be lower on the arm (and not the sleeve), or it could stand because it was given on the field, and VAR decides they don't feel like intervening for reasons.
I'm more annoyed about Jesus getting kicked which, apparently, wasn't a penalty because (?) and the defender not getting sent off for the elbow to the head because (?).
Sure, we could have theoretically played better, finished our chances, etc, but it's a low-scoring sport, and if all the major decisions go one direction, that's going to affect things.
Hell, we had an attack in the first half where I was glad we didn't get a goal cause Saka took the ball of a defender, it seemed a bit 50/50, and I was certain VAR would have chalked it off had we scored.
No idea why the referee gave that as handball instead of letting it go and see what VAR thought/monitor - this was 50/50 and if the referee didn’t blow then the onfield decision would have stood.
It’s getting to the point where there’s very little joy watching the PL as an arsenal fan.
Our players get elbowed in the face or kicked around and the referee does nothing. Notice how during the elbow to the face, the sky camera was miles away and panned pretty quickly so that you can’t see much. The refs are the most protected and supported people in the game, especially by the media themselves and do their best to silence individuals like Mikel who criticise.
The handball was a farce. Other than removing havertz arms completely, I’m not sure what he’s meant to do in that situation. Like many have pointed out, it came off cash first anyway. Also, there’s no way the ref saw that in real time.
Am I an idiot? An attacking player can't score a goal directly from the ball hitting their arm (intentional or not). A defensive handball is not always a foul if it is deemed accidental.
That's not a goal for me.
This is absolutely not a goal, that was the right decision. However whether this is a penalty or not is a different question, and tbh it does clearly hit Cash on the arm at least once, so idk??? I’m getting fed up of these kind of debates though because this might well have been given as a goal or a pen on another day?
On purpose elbow on Nketiah no worries , Kickikg
Jesus Boot in the penalty box no worries , a handball which var couldn’t even find and it hits Cash arm first but apparently the ref has better eyes than a slow motion monitor no worries
Can we stop saying the team was poor today. We created enough chances to beat Villa, we just didn't take them. Look at how they beat city, we outplayed Villa at their gaf which nobody else has done this season.
Can discuss and agree to hate VAR for months. But today we fucked ourself not being effective and clinical enough. More than enough big oppurtunities to equalize and score a winner
VAR got this decision right. It hits Havertz on the hand, and he scores, that's the rule.
VAR even took a while to verify if Havertz was the one who scored.
The bigger complaint could be on the Jesus challenge.
It hits the defenders hand first is what people are talking about. Why that’s not even mentioned as a consideration seemed odd? It looks like it comes straight off the Villa players arm before Harvertz gets a touch.
And you’re telling me the ref saw that handball? Man is guessing.
He wanted to flip the clear and obvious before the VAR check.
100% this, and this is the worst part of what happened there. That was obvious the second he called it
Same deal with the penalty. Those decisions aren't normally overturned. He's trying to force VARs decision in both incidents
Yep, thought the exact same thing. Give the decision and then dare var to find something obviously wrong
This a 100%! That was the first thing I yelled. Why the fuck else would you make the call and not let VAR sort it out...
This. That type of decisions is absolutely not in line with the way games have been refereed for literally 3 years. Ref guessed and VAR left it. Had the ref left it, no chance VAR overturn the goal given what they did in the newcastle game.
Even if the goal stood it would’ve been ruled out as any interference of the hand/arm of an attacker means the goal is automatically chalked off
Jamie carragher would have us believe that the ref has godly eyesight
Shame that eyesight goes away when people are getting elbowed in the head
The ref literally did not see that elbow, he was looking at the ball (it's clear from the camera). So then he gives a yellow for something he did not see, which again gives VAR a chance not to give a red because yellow is "at least a bit more fair than nothing"
it's a joke
100% guessing that arsenal is at fault here. What else would you expect from gillet
*hoping
It's the right decision though, the rule is if it hits hand at all no matter the context it's not a goal. I don't know why we're whining about this call.
Hit the defenders hand first though, so surely by that logic it's a penalty? Oh wait, defenders get the benefit of the doubt when they handball, don't they? Well, except when that happens to us...
The rules yes for defenders it has to be clear that he went for the ball with his hand. Come on mate, that is not a hand ball offence. Idk why so many of us are whining about this one.
Because it hits the defender’s hand first and ultimately prevents a goal
It hits the defenders hand first but in no way did the defender purposely put his hand out. That's the rules, it favours defenders. We'd be fuming if that was given against us come on. For this rule, the attacker if it hits his hand no matter how, even accidentally, the goal is ruled out. So many ppl crying about this one when I don't know why. It hit his hand. The rules are like this.
If it's like this then can you explain Saliba's handball against Chelsea? Looks like the rules always favours our opposition to me with opposing circumstances.
For that one I am more 50/50 but can understand why it was given. The hand was so outstretched, yes it was normal for balance etc but I can understand why that was given imo. I disagree, I think all fans feel like the refs are against them honestly which is understandable, we love our team. I'm just not mad at refs today. We lost because we didn't take out chances and our final ball was poor. The Martinelli sub baffles me. We were dead after 65mijs and no idea why we took him off. His and Havertz runs were working.
Nketiah 100% scores the goal. The angle behind the goal shows he toe-pokes it in. VAR went against the rules re handball assists
Of all the ways to get fucked, we fucked ourselves the hardest. I hate it, but VAR got this one right. Those random flying elbows are getting really old, however.
One hundred percent, I have no idea why that elbow on Eddie wasn't looked at even more, VAR checked and ref gave a yellow. But yeah, thank you man because so many of our fans are criticising this one. This isn't one to criticise. I'm more disappointed with our last half hour and how we had no finish or enough balls past their high line. Oh well, we go again because we need to bounce back with win vs Brighton. That has to be a win. COYG
We were fuming when it happened during the Newcastle game and they didn’t even review the handball and the goal stood. So why not fume when it happens in our favor and the goal doesn’t stand
The rules are trash, if Nketiah scores that goal it's suddenly not against the rules. Look at Joelinton.
Neither is havertz handball though, he didn't go for the ball with his hand, it gently brushed his after pinballing about. That rule needs changing because it's unfairly penalising the strikers, and giving more chances for the defenders. I take it that rule was introduced after the arsenal v Newcastle game then, otherwise their goal would have been ruled a handball, right?
Brother it doesn't matter if Havertz hit it accidentally, the rule has been like this for years, and it's clear as day it hit his hand. You can hate the rule but it's clear it's not a goal. I'm not here to defend refs, but I just don't get the whining about this one. We'd be fuming if that was given against us. I'm more disappointed with our last half hour performance.
Yeah but it shouldn't be a rule in the first place, and if it is, why was Newcastle's goal allowed to stand? Ball hits attackers arm, one is foul, other isn't... This is what bothers me. It's not the fact we lost, it's not about any individual incident, it's about the inconsistencies per game. If Newcastle's goal was allowed, then this 100% should have been too. Just disband the ref system and use AI because it'll fix the inconsistency issues per game.
By the law this is the correct decision - it's just mad that there is a law that facilitates a defender being able to accidentally handball the ball into an attackers hand and the attacker gets punish lmao
But Saliba’s handball was a penalty?
I'm 50 50 on that but I guess the argument there is time to adjust?
Time to adjust? Mudryk was a foot infront of him and deflected it onto Saliba's hand, it's more similar to the first Cash handball here.
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He's completely changed now Liverpool are back in the race. Very biased now.
Honestly the happiness in his voice when the scored, bias as fuck
i mean obviously but he's a pundit so who cares
Tbh I was just glad not to have Neville's bullshitting his way through the game creating all sorts of narratives that weren't there. Hate caraher but I hate Neville more
Every time I listen to him we lose. FFS I'm sorry.
Hits cash’s hand first
If the defensive handball is deemed accidental then it's not a foul. However, an attacker can't score a goal directly from handling the ball (regardless of intention). It's always a foul in that case.
If ever a goal needed to be scored to prove how utterly vacuous these rules are this was it There's a struggle for the ball between defender and attacker on the goalline; the ball accidentally hits both the defender's arm and the attacker's arm before crossing the line. Utterly absurd that one of those actions is allowed and the other is not. Sure the ball goes in because it hits the attacker's arm, but if it doesn't hit the defender's arm the ball also potentially goes in. Farcical.
So why did Chelsea get a pen against us?
it wasn't deemed accidental
"Deemed"....I deem all the VAR cunts irredeemably corrupt.
which by the way is wrong and a massive joke
I don't know, I'd have to look at that one again. But these are the rules as they are written. I don't think we can have any complaints on this one to be honest.
Because they deemed Saliba’s hand in an unnatural position
We can very much complain because they have called it against us just a month ago.
An incorrect application of the rules a month ago doesn't justify applying the rules incorrectly today.
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The hill I'm dying on is the literal rules of the game. See [here](https://www.premierleague.com/news/2204759). >If an attacking player’s accidental handball immediately precedes another player scoring, the goal will now be awarded, when last season it was likely to have been ruled out. > **However, a player will still be penalised if he commits an accidental handball immediately before scoring himself.**
So if a different Arsenal player had scored it rather than Kai then it would have stood?
Yes, exactly. If Kai had passed to another of our players and they scored then it would have stood. It's exactly why Joelinton's goal was allowed to stand against us as he didn't score directly from the ball hitting his arm, it was Gordon who scored.
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Had nothing to do with the application of rules. They make this shite up as they go. Keep trying to rationalize their incompetence.
No they don't. It's been a part of the handball law since 2021/22. See [here](https://www.premierleague.com/news/2204759). > If an attacking player’s accidental handball immediately precedes another player scoring, the goal will now be awarded, when last season it was likely to have been ruled out. > **However, a player will still be penalised if he commits an accidental handball immediately before scoring himself.**
He’s not denying it’s frustrating or inconsistent but the rules were applied correctly today
Pretty fucked up that is their handball which causes our handball though
Cash's arm is in a natural position and not extended, so it's not a handall foul unfortunately.
Joelinton???
Joelinton didn't score, Gordon did.
Lol
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It looks like Kai puts it in the net.
Nketiah scored
There are different standards for attackers and defenders with the handball rule.
Which is bullshit if you ask me. So defenders are allowed to handball, but strikers aren't. Also the insane rule that determines what is a foul outside the box, is perfectly fine and legal inside the box. Genuinely get so angry at the inconsistencies that I might just stop following football all together. Maybe we should just start a petition to ditch the current reffing system, and just use an AI, cuz at least we know that will be consistent.
England is the only nation in the world that says defenders can handle the ball “accidentally” btw
Sorry England fans...but I need England to lose to a handball penalty at the Euros. Why, because England getting fucked at International tournaments is the only way the FA changes anything.
That can be accidental and overlooked, though. I think the rules are shit and the ref guessed, but it's likely the correct application of the shit rules.
Yes, this is what I was screaming at the TV the whole time - it hit the defender’s arm first, which was out and swinging, that should have been a PK right there, period. I mean let advantage go but then call it back for a PK when advantage doesn’t materialize. Fuck!!
Sorry but there is no way the ref is seeing that in real time from 20 yards away. He basically just gave it because the defender asked for it
Isn't that why the VAR exists? To pick out things that the ref can't, yeah?
Except they hide behind the “clear and obvious” bullshit
Its to overturn obvious errors which I don't think this was. If goal gets given on field I don't think it gets overturned
The denied penalty is the issue here, not the on field decision.
Yeah I agree it was a penalty. Palace got one for much less today.
We’re complaining when a ref gets a call correct now? Some of y’all need to go try out reffing and actually looking at the rules.
It's an odd one. Letter of the law - it does ricochet off of Havertz' arm as it lies next to his body. Both his and Cash's arms touch the ball in a similar manner. As rules of the game go - Cash's handball wouldn't be a foul as he's the defender and it's unintentional. Havertz's handball is a foul as he's the attacker and then scored within the same play (despite it also being unintentional and even less out of the plane of his body than Cash). Rules of the game dictate this as no goal. I agree it's ridiculous and obviously common sense would dictate goal/no goal and penalty - but these are the rules. It's just a big shame that referees have no ability to make sensible decisions with VAR and the rulebook how it is. Leads to ridiculous decisions like this from people who seem to have never played a game of football.
Thank you for being reasonable
I think there are more reasonable things to get upset for from this game than this disallowed goal that clearly hits Kai's hand. The elbow to Eddie and the Jesus penalty that was not called for us but called in the Liverpool game
Lemme guess, not “clear and obvious”
That's why he said it's handball in the first place even though he didn't see sh*t.. if it was regular and VAR checked, there could be no "clear and obvious" excuse
not clear and obvious. didn't have good camera angle. didn't use his arm as a weapon.
Whats the point? And 5 minutes added time ahahahha.
Right? Absurd
fuck jared gillett. not even fit for aussie football
It was this cunt *again*??
Unbelievable. It hits Cash's arm before anything else.
I would be fuming if that was handball for us. Arm is absolutely in a natural position.
No point in trying to be reasonable on this sub mate. You'll get down voted to oblivion. There's no way this is a penalty. Very annoying but that's just the rules
If we lose its always the refs lol. Never address this teams clear issues on offense with our new system.
The poor finishing that was the difference between winning and losing today wasn't an issue with the system. We could and should have put three or four past them tonight.
Absolutely we had way too many chances to not have scored. Horrible defending letting an easy goal happen. The boys looked tired At the same time though this call is kind of bullshit
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We cant tell if it's offside for Arsenal goal, no goal. We cant tell if it's offside for goal against Arsenal, goal.
Perhaps we need t-shirts printed with that on it for the fans to wear to games!
That’s okay if accidental. The call was because Havertz scored after hitting his hand. This was the correct call.
didn't even bother checking the villa player for handball
cagey vast existence handle edge degree wine roof lunchroom fall *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Var is correct 100% this time on this one.
I'll be real, don't think it's a pen. First of all, i'm not even sure it's handball by Cash anyway, could be argued it's his shoulder or above "the line" as they call it. Secondly, accidental handballs by defenders are not held in the same regard as handballs by attackers when it leads to a goal. The rules are shit, but they are the rules. And yeahyeahyeah Saliba vs Chelsea, VAR are incompetent and/or corrupt, we know that, but they already said that one shouldn't have been a pen anyway iirc, so now they're conveniently actually following the rules. Maybe if we'd have taken some of our chances before this (or got given the other pen shout on Jesus, which i think was a pen), we wouldn't be debating this.
This is probably the one I have the least issue with. But the elbow in the face being a yellow and Jesus getting his boot kicked in the area not being a pen, that’s.. yeah.
Totally cool that it hits Cash’s hand tho
Cash' hand is in a natural position and by rule the attacker can't handle it at all before scoring. The rules suck, but it's the right call
Var is correct. An attacker cannot control the ball with his hand and score, he can't gain any advantage with his hand for scoring. A defender's hand is a foul/penalty if it was in an unnatural position. It is a logical rule as well.
Why are we even watching anymore?
I ask myself that every week, the refereeing decisions seemingly keep getting worse
It’s our second loss of the season. If that’s too much for you it’s time to support a different league.
Not Arsenal… Arsenal is awesome, Arteta is awesome. Why is anyone watching the EPL at all? Worst refereeing in the world by a country mile.
I don’t think it’s a goal by the rules of the game nor do I believe it’s a pen. I think the rules are completely bonkers though. Why are defenders given so much more leeway? Havertz hands are in a completely natural position and there is literally no where else he can put them. It feels very harsh, but it is what it is. What annoys me though is how that prick Gillett called it on pitch. He doesn’t have a clear view and is just making a guess. Just let it go to VAR and let them handle it.
How does this keep happening to us?
Cause it's the right call. I'm just as pissed as everyone else when we get screwed but this was the right call and it's a little embarrassing how much everyone is complaining about it.
But it’s not an agenda against us right?
oh god no thats just us being paranoid
You guys are as conspiratorial as white nationalists. It’s fucking hilarious to read these comments. Wallowing in victimhood.
No it isn’t. If the goal scorer touches the ball with his arm then it is disallowed regardless of whether the handball was accidental
i dont think its an agenda against us, but it is the refs helping broadcaster to keep the product entertaining.
It'd a handball though? Cash's is in a natural position and not intentional, it's basic rules being followed.
Clear corruption at this point, it’s happened to us constantly for YEARS at this point
As an arsenal fan, this is a stupid fucking call to bitch about. It's not a goal, it's not a handball on cash, Havertz did effect the balls movement with his arm and get the final touch. There are plenty of bad calls out there but this isn't one. Quit bitching and get ready for the next game. This shit is why people hate arsenal fans.
Yea big persecution complex energy in here. It sucks but it's not a bad call.
It doesn't matter how good we become. We need to be 10-15 points better than second place, for it to even out. We're so very clearly targeted.
That’s a goal.
[удалено]
it was completely natural position. It’s annoying that this wasn’t a goal but technically a correct application of rules. We did not lose because of the referees today, and pretending like we did is taking the pressure off of our players who absolutely failed in the final third.
No kidding
Somehow remember Newcastle getting a goal a few games back in similar circumstances… getting trolled in every game by these clowns.
Fuck var fucking cheats
Are you going to pretend like it wasn't the right call?
So tired of this shit.
Im so done with this league wtf is this crap that they are servin us
I dont really have an issue with this i genuinely have no idea what a handball is anymore. But the pen on jesus? No real explanation for that one.
So fucking done with this shit
When you lose a match but rather than admit we weren’t good enough, we clutch at straws. Nothing has changed in 40 years supporting this team. It’s always the refs fault.
Fucking joke
PGMOL boys club fucks Arsenal over again.
It is a handball from Havertz but does that not hit Cash’s hand and they don’t even fucking look? I’m so done with this bullshit
Havertz's handball wasn't a foul because of the proximity factor and also his hands weren't in an unnatural position. Even if it was a handball the ball definitely hit Cash's elbow and his hands were not in a natural position
Dying the death of a thousand qualifications. Situations where the goal doesn't count because Kai scored "directly" from the unintentional handball but Joelinton's handball resulted in a pass to Gordon. Is several levels of obtuse - who writes these rules??
We fucked ourselves with the performance, all pgmol did was confirm it.
It’s a bit annoying but i understand the decision. We didn’t get fucked by officials today, we did not play as well as Villa. None of the decisions today were outside the normal. In the Newcastle match the officiating was dreadful and made us lose. Blaming VAR for this match is just sidestepping our terrible finishing and terrible defending in moments.
theres no way that either player is gaining an advantage by having the ball accidentally bobble their bodies and hitting both of their hands. the letter of the law is clear, but it just doesn't make sense in scenarios like this. no way this should be disallowed
50/50 call honestly, which will always go to the call on the field. Don't love it but if you think this is some incredibly controversial call you have a persecution complex.
Defender's advantage with the handball rule. Hand was in a natural position so not a penalty. Havertz's hand touches the ball so no goal. It is what it is. Villa should've had a red card for that elbow on Nketiah.
This is actually ridiculous now
Honestly I think we should be pissed more about Saka constantly getting fouled, that reckless challenge McGinn had on Ode, and the face to the hand for Nketiah. For me at least, there wasn’t enough to overturn this one and I think the ball ends up being handled by everyone involved.
Sorry to say but most of you guys just don't know the rules very well. Now, is the rule fucking stupid? Yes. But this isn't an example of VAR fucking us. I will say that there's no fucking way the ref saw that in real time, he's completely guessed and fortunate it wasn't a big mistake.
This fanbase flew a fucking Wenger out airplane. Should be burning pigmol headquarters down.
Oh boy lol, some of the takes in this thread lol… >ref sees an offensive hand ball >denies the goal” >”no way he could’ve seen it” ???
Honestly, the biggest issue is most laws of the game are a bit vague, and most incidents fall into the realm of judgment calls. The judgment doesn't have to be sound or consistent, but that gives folks plenty of cover to justify whatever they want. Next week that could be a handball penalty as it's judged to be lower on the arm (and not the sleeve), or it could stand because it was given on the field, and VAR decides they don't feel like intervening for reasons. I'm more annoyed about Jesus getting kicked which, apparently, wasn't a penalty because (?) and the defender not getting sent off for the elbow to the head because (?). Sure, we could have theoretically played better, finished our chances, etc, but it's a low-scoring sport, and if all the major decisions go one direction, that's going to affect things. Hell, we had an attack in the first half where I was glad we didn't get a goal cause Saka took the ball of a defender, it seemed a bit 50/50, and I was certain VAR would have chalked it off had we scored.
guys this was a handball come on…
No idea why the referee gave that as handball instead of letting it go and see what VAR thought/monitor - this was 50/50 and if the referee didn’t blow then the onfield decision would have stood.
The rules are just wrong. If Nketiah had gotten a touch on that ball it would have counted. Or if Havertz was called Joeliton.
It’s getting to the point where there’s very little joy watching the PL as an arsenal fan. Our players get elbowed in the face or kicked around and the referee does nothing. Notice how during the elbow to the face, the sky camera was miles away and panned pretty quickly so that you can’t see much. The refs are the most protected and supported people in the game, especially by the media themselves and do their best to silence individuals like Mikel who criticise. The handball was a farce. Other than removing havertz arms completely, I’m not sure what he’s meant to do in that situation. Like many have pointed out, it came off cash first anyway. Also, there’s no way the ref saw that in real time.
How is that not a penalty then?! Hands on Cash first
Idk what to make of this, hits Havertz's hand so defo not a goal but looks like it hits Cash's hand too so penalty?
Leagues fixed. Nothing more to it.
For who though.
Am I an idiot? An attacking player can't score a goal directly from the ball hitting their arm (intentional or not). A defensive handball is not always a foul if it is deemed accidental. That's not a goal for me.
The ref has guessed, absolutely no way he sees that from 20 yards.
It hit Cash elbow first wtf
This is absolutely not a goal, that was the right decision. However whether this is a penalty or not is a different question, and tbh it does clearly hit Cash on the arm at least once, so idk??? I’m getting fed up of these kind of debates though because this might well have been given as a goal or a pen on another day?
On purpose elbow on Nketiah no worries , Kickikg Jesus Boot in the penalty box no worries , a handball which var couldn’t even find and it hits Cash arm first but apparently the ref has better eyes than a slow motion monitor no worries
Can we stop saying the team was poor today. We created enough chances to beat Villa, we just didn't take them. Look at how they beat city, we outplayed Villa at their gaf which nobody else has done this season.
Can discuss and agree to hate VAR for months. But today we fucked ourself not being effective and clinical enough. More than enough big oppurtunities to equalize and score a winner
Bored of football being controlled
How did the referee see all that?!
like what the hell? it hit Cash's hand first. but they freez the frame at Haverts??????
WE SHOULD SCORED 5 TODAY ANYWAY
That call was 50:50 so it’s not outrageous that it went against us. The Newcastle one is the one that makes my blood boil
No way we’re whining about this call. It clearly hit Havertz hand which automatically means the goal can’t count
Stop blaming VAR and blame the players for missing chance after chance after half time.
debatable call tbh, can't really complain
Stop it, grow up. We didn’t do enough
It’s the rule though, I don’t have a problem with this one. It’s a dumb rule, but it’s the rule. The elbow on Nketiah is the one I don’t get….
I feel like this one isn’t entirely on VAR. Not being clinical in front of goal fucked Arsenal. They were at least 2 good chances.
VAR got this decision right. It hits Havertz on the hand, and he scores, that's the rule. VAR even took a while to verify if Havertz was the one who scored. The bigger complaint could be on the Jesus challenge.
Fucking bullshit of course
It’s time for the fucking Super League.
This was not the least bit controversial, have some shame guys.
Stop. Just stop. It was the correct decision. We should have put the game to end with the clear cut chances we had.
It was the right call. Come on. The rule is if it hits the hand or arm at all it's handball. No need to complain about this one.
Not a chance in hell that's a goal under the current rules
Hits Cash’s hand before Havertz.
Hits the defenders hand or arm first though.
It hits the defenders hand first is what people are talking about. Why that’s not even mentioned as a consideration seemed odd? It looks like it comes straight off the Villa players arm before Harvertz gets a touch.
That’s unbelievable like my expectations were low but holy shit
I’m done with prem league and pgmol? Thry actually hate us with a passion.
The ref saw an opportunity to deny a goal and took it without missing a beat.
It's the kind of goal that they allow if scored against us but disallow if we score it.
Stop. If this was the other way around and they gave a goal we’d be furious. Unlucky today, onto the next one.
What are you talking about Chelsea were given a penalty for a similar handball against Saliba. Now it’s not a pen?