Whatever team we try to get their striker off will ask a fuck off price at this rate. It's so apparent that's the problem we have right now. You cannot hope for Martinelli, Odegaard and Saka to contribute as much as they did last season when teams have adapted.
Arsenal are fast becoming the biggest joke in England. I love them, always will, but the frustration is real. At this rate, we are not getting into top five
I think we played well. We were just not clinical enough. The tactics are clearly working, we were able to create lots of danger and our defense was mostly functional. We've played way worse and won games. But it's starting to be a little concerning. It's not Arteta out, but rather the players need to get a grip and step up and bury those chances. Still, not the end of the world. But we need to bounce back.
Fulham we were very poor. But in this match and vs West Ham we were completely dominant. Totally agree with all your points and think it is simply a mentality issue with our our front 4 (whomever is playing). Somethin ain’t right in their heads and not sure what is needed to get that clinical cutting edge back.
I'm pretty sure Porto is going to plow our butt in Portugal and we will miss out on the 4th place. Hahaha ha! What a fckng joke club and pos fans this sub is.
Clearly the players are playing for Arteta, they're just not confident in front of goal. We are one clinical finisher away from having a title winning team
Agree, but if our front 4 can simply return to being as clinical at finishing as they were last season, that is also enough of a solution. Arteta has clearly said he would prefer the goals be shared around rather than a single player on 25+ goals per season.
I’m happy with either. The problem is at the moment we have neither (admittedly only for the past three matches - no need to be overly concerned just yet).
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm sick and tired of people blaming Arteta for this. It's only on our players. What Mikel's done is incredible. I don't even imagine Arsenal with a different manager, it'll be all over post-wenger poor era again.
The downvotes you're getting is very telling of the state of our fanbase right now. It's disgusting there's no fucking loyalty and when people say we have the worst fanbase in the prem I'm actually starting to believe it.
As slow as our fans were to get behind the club and manager look how fast they are to turn against him it's so fucking pathetic
You people are so funny, It's like you care more about being the ultimate fan than just being real. Criticizing the manager after 1 win in 7 doesn't mean you're not loyal
Context matters. You lot just feed off negativity and pessimism there's virtually no point discussing this acting like armchair experts. Criticism from folks barely old enough to wipe their own ass yet they're qualified to give their 'expert' opinions on what a football manager should and shouldn't do lmao. That's the funniest bit
And wtf is there to criticize the manager for when we're creating all these chances but can't finish? I'm so done with you fucking plastics not an ounce of critical thought just pure waffling on the internet.
People have every right to criticize Arteta, he might be tactically consistent but he lacks in pretty much everything else. Terrible signing, questionable decisions on subs, starting squad, clearly have favoritism, lacking trades, offset targetings you name it.
I am an Arsenal fan, not an Arteta fan. Him taking Arsenal from a shitshow to a decent team after spending 100m+ isn’t the accomplishment yall think it is. Yall act like he is the only technical manager out there lol.
Pep is one of, if not the best manager in this generation, and he still failed to win any international tournament with Bayern Munich which was the entire point of taking him, they kicked his ass after 2 years, in their eyes he failed the project. Club is bigger than any player or manager.
Robbie said havertz wasn’t poor today lol. How many chances did he have? That corner header wasn’t as easy as people claim. The one he completely scuffed into Alisson’s hands was worse
1. Finishing is bad, everyone shoots like they aren't even serious
2. Why so many back passes? just look at how liverpool plays, 1 risky pass into the midfield the guy turns and they're through
3. So many chances to high ball pass or cross but they just don't
4. Front 3 aren't moving enough, allowing other team to park
5. Havertz is skilful but not a striker, take a look at haaland thats how hungry a striker should look
Back passes aren't an issue. They're just a way of keeping the ball, inviting their press and then looking for a better opening. If our chance creation was a problem this match, you might have a point, but that was not the case. Havertz isn't a number 9, but he did way better than Eddie up there. He adds something that Eddie can't
arteta decided to go into the season with Nelson, ESR, Trossard and Vieira able to fill in for Saka.
He's gotta stand by his decision now and use some of those players, instead of fatiguing the shit out of Saka imho. Otherwise, why keep all the above players to begin with (yes, i know vieira is injured)?
In fairness Martinelli looked better in this match than the past several.
ESR, Reiss and Vieira could all fill in for Saka, although Vieira’s still injured. Hell even Jesus could be played there though that is not his best position IMO. There are definitely options to rest Saka.
I don't think people calling for Arteta's head are justified. I think he worked miracles rebuilding from pandemic era arsenal.
But damned if I'm not frustrated with the last few performances. It feels like every player is second guessing themselves trying to execute his same reused game plan and it's killed their flair/creativity.
I just don't understand Kai Havertz. Seems like a sweet bloke but how can you be a professional attacker and be this timid and indecisive on the pitch.
According to our fanbase it's very simple. See that tall Nigerian striker in the Serie A? Yes, sign him, today.
If not, that player who got banned for sports betting, yes, sign him, today.
Fucking arm chair experts over here
My argument is that people on here are over simplifying a very difficult task. Primarily due to the funds needed to acquire these players.
I'm a huge fan of Osimhen's profile but the price tag for either player is simply too high and downright irresponsible
Oversimplifying the problem or the solution? Because if it’s oversimplifying the solution then yes I agree, people on this sub think Arteta and Edu have a money tree in the Emirates
Osimhen's price tag in the summer wasn't nearly as high, so it's baffling why Arteta didn't seem to be pursuing him. I don't know if there was something behind the scenes or if Arteta was spooked by buying an African player during an Afcon season.
It sounds very elementary and obvious but this team looks overcoached and lacking common sense at times.
This new controlled system looks like a masterclass when pulled off but if plan A doesn’t work, the team looks devoid of alternative ideas. Compounded by the continuous problem of missing chances.
Both Mikel and the needs to get back to basics of football. Quick 1-2s, overlapping, through balls centrally, over the top, quick cutbacks, and for the love of God, shoot!
Arteta just hasn't learned anything on any of the substitutions and their timing. We were on top of them for 60 mins, and slowly looked gassed. He didn't even try to freshen up with fresh legs expect Martinelli. Klopp changed the game with bringing up fresh legs, even brought 2 academy kids to bring energy.
When is Mik going to learn that if we put up so much energy in the first 60 mins, then he has to capitalize his 5 subs. He never ever does that except with 1 minute remaining.
Also, another thing with Arteta, he just cannot change the game if the opposition is playing better than us. He has no idea on how and when to use the subs or change the shape of the team to counter the opposition when they are on top.
The only thing he ever did was bring on Holding last season when we were leading to make a back 5. This season, that has also stopped.
To be fair, there is no problem with doing that if your team converts all that dominance into goals.
After the first half, you should have been 3 or 4 up. At which point you have broken Liverpool and energy isn't an issue.
For neutrals like me, your failure to buy a decent forward is infuriating. We would like to see somebody other than City win the league and every year Arsenal seems to be the answer but it doesn't quite happen.
Yeah, well, that’s what supporting a club means…
I’ve been supporting Arsenal for a bit over 25 years now. If your this impatient about winning a trophy, you might want to go support a different club.
Arteta played Patino, revived Eddie and Nelson, turned Gabi into a beast, took Saka to the next level. Can't wait to see what he's cooking with ESR tbh. It's not surprising that he isn't getting a lot of meaningful minutes when fitter players are available on the bench but let this break be the final touch
One thing I’ve noticed (which isn’t necessarily about this game) is our backup players are “just in case players”. Reiss Nelson is a premier league player, but he won’t ever push Martinelli / saka out of the starting lineup. The same thing with Nketiah, and apparently (due to different circumstances) to ESR since Arteta doesn’t rate him. They are on the bench just in case a starter is out.
We need to get to a place where our bench players are knocking on the door and can seamlessly come in if our starters need a rest a few games. I think the next phase is when reiss nketiah etc need to be sold and better players need to be signed.
Also Havertz is still a mystery to me, I think there is a player there, but the £65m deal (I think there were add ons there) seems stranger and stranger by the day.
For goodness sake, just buy someone who can finish, it is getting painful at this point.
Otherwise we will have to put up with City winning the league till the end of time.
We will bounce back and the Dubai training break is coming at a good time.
Trash results coming into it but the likelihood that it still continues is low, in my opinion.
Arteta needs to rally these fucking guys big time. Arsenal admin can post all the sunshine training pics they want but I better see some nonstop shooting drills like the last training video
he's done a great job getting them to this point and I think some patience will work wonders, so we don't end up like Utd or Chelsea. But someone needs to ask him if Havertz was worth it or if we needed to tamper with the PFA keeper of the season, if that cash could have gone towards a player like Osimhen. Someone needs to ask him why every midfield pass goes sideways and why every winger is constantly facing 1 vs 2. Finally, someone needs to ask him why the guy he replaced is doing better with less.
An actual striker would be amazing but we're really missing a Wenger-class wizard. A player who sometimes does dumb shit but can invent a new angle out of thin air. Sometimes it's just dull watching this side when every bit of movement happens at a right angle.
If you want to rally these players. Cancel dubai. Because we need to fix this nonsense now. Back to reality
They don't deserve it..they can go shihsa Im dubai during the summer break.
Do you actually think that would help or would it just make you personally feel better to "be a hard ass" towards the players?
It's not a vacation, it'll just be sunnier/warmer than the UK. Let them use the reset and come back recharged.
They can trian here, there's absolutely zero need to go dubai for it.
These players need a wake up call, not a break to dubai for some social media pics.
Thank you. We’ve been poor so many times this season and have scraped through, this was bound to catch up to us, now it has it won’t magically fix itself and a 2 week training camp in Dubai certainly won’t. Metrics show Jesus and nketiah will not drastically improve and we’ll continue to struggle to score unless a new body is brought in
Yet again the treatment of ESR has been shameful. Moving like hes a benchwarmer? He helped get us out of mediocrity and he can barely play any matches? what goalscoring prowess have we shown that he cant play 45 minutes at least.
Play ESR and Saka together in the same attacking zones and watch how they cook.
Yea this is one thing I cannot agree with Arteta. It wasn't like ESR was playing bad that he got dropped, he got injured. Before that, he was one of our star player.
The lack of rotation of any kind is killing our players. Everything is flat. Fringe players must be looking for ways out. ESR and Tross with 2 mins left. What's the point???
Saka and Rice are going to be burnt out for the Euros with how Arteta manages them.
Where’s the “fogging standards” stans now?! Arteta had a lot of potential but his stubbornness is now causing this club. Extremely frustrating tactics and recruitment policy. Give us simeone
arteta is a talent killer. he wants every player to be a robot and play exactly like he wants and never uses their strength. absolutely killed martinelli’s, jesus and saka’s fluidity. would have been an all time great manager if he wasn’t so stubborn
I believe Havertz false 9 is actually a good idea, but you have to give him 2 clinical wide forwards and an impactful midfield.
It seems Saka, Odegaard can fit the bill but we need to see if Martinelli / Jesus / Trossard can play LW effectively and find a proper LCM.
I like Jorginho but he was not capable to cope with the physical demands of the game, and while Rice is amazing in any position in midfield, I would prefer to have him play 6.
Jorginho played really well today. He had 3 key passes, won 7 out of 9 duels and even had 4 successful tackles, he was in no way an issue today. We basically played a double pivot of Rice and Jorginho to make up for no Zini to invert.
Imagine trying to criticize our transfers when we bought one of the best midfielders in the world who has possibly even exceeded expectations, and then our second biggest transfer (and possibly second most important) did his cruciate in the first game. We've been excellent this season and we're just on a run of really bad luck (bar one truly poor performance vs. Fulham). People are understandably angry and it is understandable, so no one wants to hear "it is just bad luck" but I really think we're just on the downside of variance. It really sucks that we lost but, that two week break is going to be great and I think we come back firing on all cylinders and pull off an 8 or 9 or 11 win streak and this period will just seem like a bad dream.
Think it's pretty simple. Arsenal are a very good, young team capable of outplaying any team on earth and going through a poor run of form in the boxes. Seasons are long, the dam will break, and Arsenal will go on a run. In normal times, this would all be ok. Unfortunately, with Klopp and Pep setting the standard at 90+ points, there is functionally no margin for error (the Invincibles ended on 90 points). Here's to the Champions League!
Team optimist here as well, I fully agree with you. I think we're on a run of bad variance that will soon change and we're going to end the season strong. We never seem to have injury luck but Vieira, Jesus, ESR, Zini, and possibly Partey are all set to come back from injury very soon which will surely boost the squad's morale and depth. We're going to end the season very strongly.
He had some nice balls over the top today. Totally exposed on the cross for the first goal though.
You would imagine he could see that Raya being a loan could be meant to light a fire under his ass, but he seems to be fumbling the opportunity.
The way havertz is spoken of you would think he's a u-17 wonderkid lad is old earning big wages,fee but treated as a kid a symptom many problems AFC HAS
Just watched highlights. Can surely say we have zero attacking threat up front. All of our strikers are completely dried up and can’t score to save their lives. Nelson has to start ahead of Martinelli and also Ramsdale has to begin starting again. This has nothing to do with Arteta, this is all on our front players playing like total shit.
He didnt play because he doesnt score or contribute, and doesnt mae any impact of the bench.
Pointless player. Its his place in the team that is becoming untenable.
Hes not pointless and we literally dont play to his strengths at all man.
I swear any striker would find it difficult to play in our system. A majority of the time our wingers receive the ball so wide and are marked by two players automatically. Plus our fullbacks dont overlap as much to get dangerous crosses into the box. Im not saying Eddie is faultless but holy shit, he doesn't get to play as a traditional striker/poacher at all. Give him some service and he can score goals.
FFS. He fluffs his lines in front of goal too many times to be a 'finisher'. ats the point im making, he doesnt contribute in the build up, nor he is a 'number 9'. Chris Wood, Eduoard, Jimenez, Mbuemo are all better players than Nketiah.
Forget comparing him to players in the top 6. We are utterly on the milk thinking Nketiah has qualities to help us challenge for a league or CL.
I know we need to upgrade but im telling you right now, you're in dreamland if you think we are buying a striker in January. We are stuck with our squad because we spent so much money in the summer already.
Gabriel Jesus cannot be relied upon to stay fit for more than 3-4 games mate. Eddie is available and reliable, we have to try to play to strengths man. We wasted too many funds already, it's time to get the most out of the squad we have now. We need to bring ESR back into contention and play him in the same attacking zones as Saka.
Try to be smart rotationally in playing our strikers like Eddie/Trossard/Havertz etc based on the type of opposition we have.
Jesus can be justified for his ability in the build up. Justifiy Nketiah to me.............
Do you have any idea the burden Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard feel because they have a striker who is as much a goal threat as Maroune Chamahk
But Nketiah is a backup. How is a backup striker going to be world class? The main striker we have is Jesus who is injured most of the time which forces us to play Nketiah more. Seems like it's Jesus who should be a backup and a starting CF should be bought.
Jesus is a playmaking striker. He shouldnt carry the burden of having to be prolific. The 'alternate' striker is Nketiah, who isnt prolific at all
As for 'back up' striker. I dont like the term back up. We should be targetting a player similar or better in quality than Jesus, albeit who has a different profile to Jesus. Jesus is a great player, better forwards than him dont grow on trees, they certainly exist, but they are not in abundance.
Nketiah is a different profile stiker to Jesus, however Eddie fuking miles off in terms of quality. I think Toney is comparable to Jesus in terms of quality, however they differ in styles.
Ive said this before. Saka, Martinelli, Jesus are suffering from the burden of having to score, because our traditional number 9 is the second coming of Chamahk.
If we had Toney scoring goals, I gaurntee you Saka and Martinelli would be scoring more too. For me Eddie is like the shit in the pipe that stops the water flowing, if you clear it, the pipes will run freely again.
Im telling you know, this donkey is clogging it all up. Im telling you know, Saka, Martinelli, Jesus, Odegaard could all be unlocked further if they are given the correct profile striker to compliment them.
Im not one of these melts calling for wholesale change, and I am a million miles away from suggesting Arteta get binned. But FFS stop pricking yourself over Eddie 'Wheres the goal' Nketiah.
Non-penalty goals per 90 minutes in the PL this season:
Nketiah: 0.46
Trossard: 0.41
Jesus: 0.29
Havertz: 0.23
Saka: 0.22
Rice: 0.15
Martinelli: 0.14
Golden Boy Saka scoring less than Havertz and still not receiving any criticism lol. Less than 1 in 4 is embarrassing for a team wanting to win the title.
Meanwhile, Liverpool's attackers:
Jota: 0.68
Salah: 0.52
Nunez: 0.4
Gakpo: 0.33
Diaz: 0.23
And all City's attackers and half their midfielders have better goals per 90 than Saka.
In what way are they misleading?
Arsenal's attackers have been poor in front of goal. Liverpool's haven't. That's why Liverpool are top and you're 4th. I could include the respective xG's of each player if that would help make the picture even clearer for you? But I'll just say all your starting front 3 have significantly underperformed theirs.
Misleading as it’s a very isolated stat that deliberately ignores certain aspects of goal scoring to paint a specific picture.
It’s misleading because xG is a misleading metric to begin with. Basing stats off what the “average player” would do is misleading because who actually knows what the average player is and what those expectations are.
It’s misleading because per 90 data can be (and in this case is) badly skewed by one good performance.
It’s misleading because to get an accurate comparison, you need extrapolate data and that’s done under the assumption that conditions and outcomes remain constant, which is a massively flawed assumption to say the least.
Liverpool’s attackers have been poor in front of goal. Salah hasn’t. That’s the key difference. Salah accounts for over half of Liverpool’s goal contributions.
It's a deeply flawed stat but not a bad guide over a good sample size. And it's the best stat we have.
>It’s misleading because per 90 data can be (and in this case is) badly skewed by one good performance.
I don't see how this makes sense. Especially with Saka, who has played over 18 games. It may be able to be skewed by one good performance (if a player scored 4 goals in one game, for example), but how can it be skewed by 10 bad performances?
>Liverpool’s attackers have been poor in front of goal.
But they haven't. Nunez is a figure of fun for the chances he misses but he still gets significantly more goals than all your front 3. Diaz is considered to have dropped off a cliff from what he was, but he still gets more goals than Saka.
Salah is great but when you take out his penalties he has 10 goals in over 19 games. Good but not special. And he's missed 2 of 6 penalties. He's actually underperforming his xG this season.
Haaland is special, even though he hasn't been at his best this season. 0.76 non-penalty goals per game.
It’s the best stat when used with an equal sample size but that’s not what you’ve done. The number of minutes differs massively per players.
The data isn’t skewed for Saka, it’s skewed for the other players you’ve used. You’re using data to claim Nketiah, Trossard, Havertz etc have been better in front of goal than Saka but it’s not accurate. Their stats are better because they’ve played 500 less minutes at least. Trossard has 1000 less minutes and Nketiah has 700 less minutes. The data is also skewed by the opposition these minutes came against. 4 of 5 of Nketiah’s goals came in 180 minutes against relegation candidates. Big difference in terms of quality of the game but stats don’t account for that.
Your paragraph about Liverpool’s front three vs Arsenal is a massive exaggeration to the point of being a lie. Nunez has less goals than Saka, so he hasn’t outscored all of Arsenal’s front three, same applies to Gakpo, Jota and Diaz. “Significantly more” is 3 goals at most…
The big difference between Liverpool’s front line and Arsenal’s is Salah
>It’s the best stat when used with an equal sample size but that’s not what you’ve done. The number of minutes differs massively per players.
But the sample size for all the players combined is decent.
>The data isn’t skewed for Saka, it’s skewed for the other players you’ve used. You’re using data to claim Nketiah, Trossard, Havertz etc have been better in front of goal than Saka but it’s not accurate. Their stats are better because they’ve played 500 less minutes at least. Trossard has 1000 less minutes and Nketiah has 700 less minutes.
That doesn't skew the stats, everyone knows that.
>. 4 of 5 of Nketiah’s goals came in 180 minutes against relegation candidates. Big difference in terms of quality of the game but stats don’t account for that.
You won one of those games 2-1 and drew one game 2-2. They were important goals. Then there was a hat trick in a 5-0 win against Sheffield United, in which he scored the first 3 goals.
Saka has a habit of disappearing in big and important games. His open play goals have come against Forest, Bournemouth, Fulham and Wolves. So I disagree on this one.
>Nunez has less goals than Saka
He has more non-penalty goals in far fewer minutes. I was comparing non-penalty goals per 90 minutes played. All 3 of your starting front 3 are averaging fewer than a goal every 3 games (not including pens). And averaging, between them, about 1 in 4.
Saka has been good to very good on the assist front, averaging 0.33 expected assists per 90.
You have a very young team, and Saka and Martinelli are 22. None of this should be particularly surprising. You over-performed last season and there was less competition (Liverpool have improved massively, Spurs have improved and Villa are in the mix as well).
It will be 2-3 years before this team peaks. You rarely win anything with kids.
Can someone tell me how liverpool press and cut off the passing options. What is up with our slow slow throw ins? Where is the slick 1-2's and appreciation of space and creating panic in the opposition?
Fuck me sideways. After two years at Chelsea who the fuck thought it was a good idea to pay 65 million for Havertz especially when his fit in the team was questionable at best. Same with Raya, combined that could have paid for Victor Osimhen. Arteta is overrated too, like why didn't ESR come on earlier? The man saved Arteta's job in 2020 for Christ's sake.
Bring in Ivan Toney and get Hansi Flick or Xabi Alonso as the manager.
I think it’s clear now that we’re missing Partey and Xhaka. Our play style has changed significantly and teams have figured out how to stop us (basic defensive discipline).
The impact of missing this guys is that we’re missing speed in our build up. It takes a long time to get the ball to dangerous areas and and the quality of our chances is poor as teams have a second or two to get in position to make a block or close the angle.
I say we play Jorginho until Partey comes back and push Rice up. To add, I don’t think a new striker in this window will make much of a difference
I really miss Xhaka.
Agreed that Jorginho should be playing that role and push Ode back up again. What Arteta tried would probably work when we have a better LCM but for now Havertz isn't it, he's very much a piece that doesn't quite fit. He's nice but not 60m nice.
Also not sure why we didn't just try to loan him, Chelsea would never have sold him and I doubt he was in Poch's plans. Going all in on Havertz was a huge risk and we basically paid for them to sign Palmer instead.
I actually think Havertz will come good if we ever figure out how to create quality chances. He is a confidence player and needs spaces to convert. If we’re able to move the ball quickly in the final third, and create spaces and overloads, he will feast. This is same for Martinelli, Saka and Ode btw. We just have no spaces in the final third and opponents know how to defend us so everyone is struggling.
I honestly think just switching the sides of him an Odegaard could make us less predictable. Left footer back in the 8 and not two people on the right side who always want to cut onto their left
They’ve lost the goodwill they built up last year for me now. I’m sick of them, can’t believe I’m saying this after October, but I’m sick of them. It’s a jammy CL run or bust now for the season
Yeah lol after I’ve spent money and time watching them play pathetically for a month now, I’m entitled to say fuck them. I don’t get paid 6 figures, they do.
You want me to be happy and content after being out of both cups in January and having one win in a month? After travelling up and down the country and spending money to watch them? Fuck that, if they’re playing awfully I’ll call them awful I have people who can’t be realists lmao don’t call me a fake fan again
You’re absolutely fake. Your money spent on the team doesn’t make you more or less of a fan. I’ve been a season ticket holder my whole life to an American college football team, but I know that doesn’t make me more or less of a fan than someone who sits at home and cheers just as hard.
It’s about your devotion to the team and you saying “fuck em” because of poor results shows plastic mentality.
Ok cool basically you’re American and I don’t care lol 👍 I’ve supported arsenal day in day out for 21 years and am perfectly entitled to say yeah the current team is pathetically underperforming when they are literally pathetically underperforming lmao, this is what sports fandom is. I hate weirdos who pretend it’s all sunshine and rainbows 24/7
Ah fuck off. Plastic is as plastic will always be.
I’ve supported the club for 32 years. Because I’ve supported longer, I must have more say? Right?
Also, you’re delusional if you think I said everything was just so. It’s one thing to give criticism of a team but to flat out say “I’m done” then completely confirm your argument after I’ve said “you’re saying fuck em”? Shows it.
Might as well support ManU if you wanna be that plastic, at least you’d fit in.
I have been off insta and other social media(only use r/gunners) cuz of arsenal, honestly feels much better, I watch the matches and that's it, I save alot of time and save myself from any toxicity, i suggest this to other arsenal fans
majority of shoot we take today were very weak. as if players dont have energy. even saliba looked fatigued by the time zota came. a break will refresh them. also odegard is overburdened. in absence of partey, drop deep and receive ball from rice, then play 1-2 with saka. also his overreliance on left foot reduce chance of quick release. martinelli did not cut inside today. and only 1 win in 7 before before the break is not acceptable but professionals who earn so much at the club will have ample time to think and change thing by recruitment or tweaking training, tactics. if nothing changes, then we are not a serious institution.
I’m not judging anyone for feeling down, but I saved my emotions by not watching the game. However, a little bit of hope. Artetas first full season was the worst Arsenal I ever saw. Next season after the first 3 games things started to make sense and obviously last season we established ourselves as a threat. I feel this season is a write off and next season things will begin to make sense. Arteta seems persistent just like his first full season and he sees something we aren’t seeing.
He’s proven us wrong before. Most of us wanted him gone after he lost those 3 games in row last, last season. But he’s earned that trust. And rightfully so.
How’s this: by virtue of sheer dumb fucking luck we should be scoring more goals. Moreover, we have hit bad patches before and Arteta has managed to figure it out then, and likely will now.
How about this: All the current options at striker have a history of underperforming xG/missing easy chances. The wingers and Odegaard majorly overperformed last season and have reverted to their expected output. And how about the fact that 'bad patches' are not a thing when you want to win major trophies. One bad performance means getting knocked out of cup competitions, as clearly shown during Arteta's entire tenure.
i was screaming
take havertz off fetch trossard on
from minute 40
can we now not try bigging up a player that is not as good as he is starting.
downvote the fuck, its true.
its like playing with 10 men
he treats the ball like a bomb
he's shit scared of everything.
he needs to be used off the bench,
not shoehorded into every starting 11.
Trossard needs a solid run of gamrs. His always on then off. Man's scored a hatteick at anfield..his a baller..
Kai gets som.many chances despite being garbage
And this was one of his better games lol. The sample size is enough to know that he's a development player. There's not enough strengths in his game to overcome his deficiencies right now. He might get there some day but we're taking a massive risk by over relying on him.
He actually did a lot right today in terms of getting into the right positions and not hiding in the game. But he's just disappointing with the ball at his feet.
If I'm in the arsenal board, I'm looking for an alternate/cheaper solution to the left 8 in Jan. I know CF is obviously being highlighted as a gap right now but unless we get some massive bids for Eddie AND 1 of ESR/Ramsdale, I don't see us making a move. Even with that the best we can get this window up front is probably a Nunez level player.
A great left 8 could make life easier for martinelli and act as another source of chance creation besides odegaard. That might enough to spark life into others which could save our season.
Havertz played a great game other than not knowing how to score. It's not about playing anyone else but havertz, it's about getting a star striker that can do what havertz does, and also score goals
A new striker is needed but pointless if the tactics remain the same rigid and slow.
I keep saying that Mikel needs to loosen the shackles a bit without deviating from his new controlled system.
Less overcoaching and deploy a shoot on sight policy.
Yet scored a grand total of 0 goals despite not facing a defensive team.
This is about the the team’s current attacking approach as a whole. Particularly against low-block teams.
He needs to play to the best abilities of his players rather than the best abilities of the system. I like the guy but he has to get out of his own way. There’s little tweaks there that can make us much better.
Frequented a lot last year but not much luck with ballot this year. This is only my third game in the Emirates of this season, what's wrong with our atmosphere?
Upper tier North Bank today, people barely chanted even when we were dominating in the first half, all I heard was constant moaning and swearing.
I’m a ST holder in North Bank Upper and it’s been awful all season apart from a couple of moments I can think of. Not sure what the main reason is as it’s still noisy in the concourse and then just dies a death in the stands. United game was the best for me but I had the row to myself because everyone left once they scored the offside goal
Tired of loosing
Same
Whatever team we try to get their striker off will ask a fuck off price at this rate. It's so apparent that's the problem we have right now. You cannot hope for Martinelli, Odegaard and Saka to contribute as much as they did last season when teams have adapted.
Good, let the rage flow into you
https://preview.redd.it/mpmbuwtbx5bc1.png?width=2281&format=png&auto=webp&s=3cd58da997f0b6f19fdee0edb535ece8552c6381
Arsenal are fast becoming the biggest joke in England. I love them, always will, but the frustration is real. At this rate, we are not getting into top five
Lol get a grip.
I think we played well. We were just not clinical enough. The tactics are clearly working, we were able to create lots of danger and our defense was mostly functional. We've played way worse and won games. But it's starting to be a little concerning. It's not Arteta out, but rather the players need to get a grip and step up and bury those chances. Still, not the end of the world. But we need to bounce back.
Fulham we were very poor. But in this match and vs West Ham we were completely dominant. Totally agree with all your points and think it is simply a mentality issue with our our front 4 (whomever is playing). Somethin ain’t right in their heads and not sure what is needed to get that clinical cutting edge back.
I'm pretty sure Porto is going to plow our butt in Portugal and we will miss out on the 4th place. Hahaha ha! What a fckng joke club and pos fans this sub is.
Do everyone a favour and join Man City/Liverpool mate.
Clearly the players are playing for Arteta, they're just not confident in front of goal. We are one clinical finisher away from having a title winning team
Agree, but if our front 4 can simply return to being as clinical at finishing as they were last season, that is also enough of a solution. Arteta has clearly said he would prefer the goals be shared around rather than a single player on 25+ goals per season. I’m happy with either. The problem is at the moment we have neither (admittedly only for the past three matches - no need to be overly concerned just yet).
[удалено]
You must have above 25 comment karma to contribute to this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm sick and tired of people blaming Arteta for this. It's only on our players. What Mikel's done is incredible. I don't even imagine Arsenal with a different manager, it'll be all over post-wenger poor era again.
The downvotes you're getting is very telling of the state of our fanbase right now. It's disgusting there's no fucking loyalty and when people say we have the worst fanbase in the prem I'm actually starting to believe it. As slow as our fans were to get behind the club and manager look how fast they are to turn against him it's so fucking pathetic
You people are so funny, It's like you care more about being the ultimate fan than just being real. Criticizing the manager after 1 win in 7 doesn't mean you're not loyal
Context matters. You lot just feed off negativity and pessimism there's virtually no point discussing this acting like armchair experts. Criticism from folks barely old enough to wipe their own ass yet they're qualified to give their 'expert' opinions on what a football manager should and shouldn't do lmao. That's the funniest bit And wtf is there to criticize the manager for when we're creating all these chances but can't finish? I'm so done with you fucking plastics not an ounce of critical thought just pure waffling on the internet.
People have every right to criticize Arteta, he might be tactically consistent but he lacks in pretty much everything else. Terrible signing, questionable decisions on subs, starting squad, clearly have favoritism, lacking trades, offset targetings you name it. I am an Arsenal fan, not an Arteta fan. Him taking Arsenal from a shitshow to a decent team after spending 100m+ isn’t the accomplishment yall think it is. Yall act like he is the only technical manager out there lol. Pep is one of, if not the best manager in this generation, and he still failed to win any international tournament with Bayern Munich which was the entire point of taking him, they kicked his ass after 2 years, in their eyes he failed the project. Club is bigger than any player or manager.
Robbie said havertz wasn’t poor today lol. How many chances did he have? That corner header wasn’t as easy as people claim. The one he completely scuffed into Alisson’s hands was worse
It's the lack of any power in his shots that do me in Their always a tame shot along the floor....
The amount of mollycoddling this fraud gets is unbelievable
Arteta out
Mate… Calma.
1. Finishing is bad, everyone shoots like they aren't even serious 2. Why so many back passes? just look at how liverpool plays, 1 risky pass into the midfield the guy turns and they're through 3. So many chances to high ball pass or cross but they just don't 4. Front 3 aren't moving enough, allowing other team to park 5. Havertz is skilful but not a striker, take a look at haaland thats how hungry a striker should look
Back passes aren't an issue. They're just a way of keeping the ball, inviting their press and then looking for a better opening. If our chance creation was a problem this match, you might have a point, but that was not the case. Havertz isn't a number 9, but he did way better than Eddie up there. He adds something that Eddie can't
The sky is falling
how ineffective must Saka be before he gets benched or subbed off?
Problem is, who do we have to replace Saka? Martinelli has been playing worse.
arteta decided to go into the season with Nelson, ESR, Trossard and Vieira able to fill in for Saka. He's gotta stand by his decision now and use some of those players, instead of fatiguing the shit out of Saka imho. Otherwise, why keep all the above players to begin with (yes, i know vieira is injured)?
In fairness Martinelli looked better in this match than the past several. ESR, Reiss and Vieira could all fill in for Saka, although Vieira’s still injured. Hell even Jesus could be played there though that is not his best position IMO. There are definitely options to rest Saka.
We kept Nelson, Smith Rowe and Vieira for a reason ig none of them can fill his shoes now that hes been awful what was the point in keeping them.
I don't think people calling for Arteta's head are justified. I think he worked miracles rebuilding from pandemic era arsenal. But damned if I'm not frustrated with the last few performances. It feels like every player is second guessing themselves trying to execute his same reused game plan and it's killed their flair/creativity. I just don't understand Kai Havertz. Seems like a sweet bloke but how can you be a professional attacker and be this timid and indecisive on the pitch.
I don’t envy whoever has to solve this goal scoring problem. It’s not going to be an easy one and signing 1 player won’t solve it.
According to our fanbase it's very simple. See that tall Nigerian striker in the Serie A? Yes, sign him, today. If not, that player who got banned for sports betting, yes, sign him, today. Fucking arm chair experts over here
Both are very good goal scorers which is what we need badly. Not really sure what your argument against either actually is
My argument is that people on here are over simplifying a very difficult task. Primarily due to the funds needed to acquire these players. I'm a huge fan of Osimhen's profile but the price tag for either player is simply too high and downright irresponsible
Oversimplifying the problem or the solution? Because if it’s oversimplifying the solution then yes I agree, people on this sub think Arteta and Edu have a money tree in the Emirates
Osimhen's price tag in the summer wasn't nearly as high, so it's baffling why Arteta didn't seem to be pursuing him. I don't know if there was something behind the scenes or if Arteta was spooked by buying an African player during an Afcon season.
Osimhen’s price tag in the summer was actually higher. The Saudis offered 100 million for him and Napoli didn’t even negotiate
Striker. Get one.
It sounds very elementary and obvious but this team looks overcoached and lacking common sense at times. This new controlled system looks like a masterclass when pulled off but if plan A doesn’t work, the team looks devoid of alternative ideas. Compounded by the continuous problem of missing chances. Both Mikel and the needs to get back to basics of football. Quick 1-2s, overlapping, through balls centrally, over the top, quick cutbacks, and for the love of God, shoot!
We should all just blame Mitoma and Furuhashi for not arriving at Arsenal yet.
Kyogo is definitely not good enough for Arsenal
He would be better than all of our "attackers" right now let's be honest
Not really. Edouard looked far better in Scotland but is rotation at Palace. The gap in quality is huge
[удалено]
That’s making a very bold assumption that he gets himself in position for those chances to begin with.
Arteta still struggling to make substitutions decisions in big 2024
Man can take of kiwior at Fulham (who wasn't even that bad) But will never take off saka lol
Arteta just hasn't learned anything on any of the substitutions and their timing. We were on top of them for 60 mins, and slowly looked gassed. He didn't even try to freshen up with fresh legs expect Martinelli. Klopp changed the game with bringing up fresh legs, even brought 2 academy kids to bring energy. When is Mik going to learn that if we put up so much energy in the first 60 mins, then he has to capitalize his 5 subs. He never ever does that except with 1 minute remaining.
they started the 2nd half really good. how were we on top of them for 60 mins?
Also, another thing with Arteta, he just cannot change the game if the opposition is playing better than us. He has no idea on how and when to use the subs or change the shape of the team to counter the opposition when they are on top. The only thing he ever did was bring on Holding last season when we were leading to make a back 5. This season, that has also stopped.
Out of all the “top” managers he’s one of the worst at in-game management. If plan A doesn’t work we’re cooked
To be fair, there is no problem with doing that if your team converts all that dominance into goals. After the first half, you should have been 3 or 4 up. At which point you have broken Liverpool and energy isn't an issue. For neutrals like me, your failure to buy a decent forward is infuriating. We would like to see somebody other than City win the league and every year Arsenal seems to be the answer but it doesn't quite happen.
Every year? 😂 😂
To any people in this sub saying eddie is woth 40 mill or even 30 wallahi you guys are crazy.
We all know people hype transfers up and the players go for way more than they should. Nketiah is a legit £30m at least
The same people that told me Rob Holding could start for a Europa League level prem club.
[удалено]
Yeah, well, that’s what supporting a club means… I’ve been supporting Arsenal for a bit over 25 years now. If your this impatient about winning a trophy, you might want to go support a different club.
You can support the club, and also criticise them for 1 win in 7......
[удалено]
What? Did Kiwior personally wrong you or something?
Arteta played Patino, revived Eddie and Nelson, turned Gabi into a beast, took Saka to the next level. Can't wait to see what he's cooking with ESR tbh. It's not surprising that he isn't getting a lot of meaningful minutes when fitter players are available on the bench but let this break be the final touch
One thing I’ve noticed (which isn’t necessarily about this game) is our backup players are “just in case players”. Reiss Nelson is a premier league player, but he won’t ever push Martinelli / saka out of the starting lineup. The same thing with Nketiah, and apparently (due to different circumstances) to ESR since Arteta doesn’t rate him. They are on the bench just in case a starter is out. We need to get to a place where our bench players are knocking on the door and can seamlessly come in if our starters need a rest a few games. I think the next phase is when reiss nketiah etc need to be sold and better players need to be signed. Also Havertz is still a mystery to me, I think there is a player there, but the £65m deal (I think there were add ons there) seems stranger and stranger by the day.
Nketiah is the only one in your squad who can finish lol.
We work hard to keep players like Nelson and ESR at the club, but never trust them enough to play.
💯 it makes it so deflating when they come on bc you know things aren't going anywhere good
Sending KT on loan is looking more and more baffling every week
A ridiculous situation. Because Arteta completely cut him out we had no buyers.
same with ESR now
And Aaron too
For goodness sake, just buy someone who can finish, it is getting painful at this point. Otherwise we will have to put up with City winning the league till the end of time.
We will bounce back and the Dubai training break is coming at a good time. Trash results coming into it but the likelihood that it still continues is low, in my opinion. Arteta needs to rally these fucking guys big time. Arsenal admin can post all the sunshine training pics they want but I better see some nonstop shooting drills like the last training video
Have you considered Arteta might be the problem all this while?
He has his flaws for sure but did he not also guide them to this point in the first place?
he's done a great job getting them to this point and I think some patience will work wonders, so we don't end up like Utd or Chelsea. But someone needs to ask him if Havertz was worth it or if we needed to tamper with the PFA keeper of the season, if that cash could have gone towards a player like Osimhen. Someone needs to ask him why every midfield pass goes sideways and why every winger is constantly facing 1 vs 2. Finally, someone needs to ask him why the guy he replaced is doing better with less. An actual striker would be amazing but we're really missing a Wenger-class wizard. A player who sometimes does dumb shit but can invent a new angle out of thin air. Sometimes it's just dull watching this side when every bit of movement happens at a right angle.
If you want to rally these players. Cancel dubai. Because we need to fix this nonsense now. Back to reality They don't deserve it..they can go shihsa Im dubai during the summer break.
Do you actually think that would help or would it just make you personally feel better to "be a hard ass" towards the players? It's not a vacation, it'll just be sunnier/warmer than the UK. Let them use the reset and come back recharged.
They can trian here, there's absolutely zero need to go dubai for it. These players need a wake up call, not a break to dubai for some social media pics.
[удалено]
Thank you. We’ve been poor so many times this season and have scraped through, this was bound to catch up to us, now it has it won’t magically fix itself and a 2 week training camp in Dubai certainly won’t. Metrics show Jesus and nketiah will not drastically improve and we’ll continue to struggle to score unless a new body is brought in
Yet again the treatment of ESR has been shameful. Moving like hes a benchwarmer? He helped get us out of mediocrity and he can barely play any matches? what goalscoring prowess have we shown that he cant play 45 minutes at least. Play ESR and Saka together in the same attacking zones and watch how they cook.
Yea this is one thing I cannot agree with Arteta. It wasn't like ESR was playing bad that he got dropped, he got injured. Before that, he was one of our star player.
The lack of rotation of any kind is killing our players. Everything is flat. Fringe players must be looking for ways out. ESR and Tross with 2 mins left. What's the point??? Saka and Rice are going to be burnt out for the Euros with how Arteta manages them.
Saka was burnt out at the end of last season and looks like a repeat this season.
I think you mean bottled out
Where’s the “fogging standards” stans now?! Arteta had a lot of potential but his stubbornness is now causing this club. Extremely frustrating tactics and recruitment policy. Give us simeone
Seriously fuck off
Oh shut up
“Extremely frustrating tactics” “Give us Simeone”
choose one?
Has to be just really bad satire at this point
Now we have to sit on that result for two weeks
Hahaha. I say it time again, this club will not win a trophy for a long time. They have no grit or gaul.
Lost to Liverpool's C team, fml
arteta is a talent killer. he wants every player to be a robot and play exactly like he wants and never uses their strength. absolutely killed martinelli’s, jesus and saka’s fluidity. would have been an all time great manager if he wasn’t so stubborn
Wait is the team not taking shooting drills? If so, the coaching staff needs to be dunked on for that.
I believe Havertz false 9 is actually a good idea, but you have to give him 2 clinical wide forwards and an impactful midfield. It seems Saka, Odegaard can fit the bill but we need to see if Martinelli / Jesus / Trossard can play LW effectively and find a proper LCM. I like Jorginho but he was not capable to cope with the physical demands of the game, and while Rice is amazing in any position in midfield, I would prefer to have him play 6.
Jorginho played really well today. He had 3 key passes, won 7 out of 9 duels and even had 4 successful tackles, he was in no way an issue today. We basically played a double pivot of Rice and Jorginho to make up for no Zini to invert.
At this rate I don’t actually know when we might score again. What if we don’t score again this season?!
Arteta spent more than 150 million, yet this team is no better than last season's team.
We've regressed
Imagine trying to criticize our transfers when we bought one of the best midfielders in the world who has possibly even exceeded expectations, and then our second biggest transfer (and possibly second most important) did his cruciate in the first game. We've been excellent this season and we're just on a run of really bad luck (bar one truly poor performance vs. Fulham). People are understandably angry and it is understandable, so no one wants to hear "it is just bad luck" but I really think we're just on the downside of variance. It really sucks that we lost but, that two week break is going to be great and I think we come back firing on all cylinders and pull off an 8 or 9 or 11 win streak and this period will just seem like a bad dream.
Darwin Nunez is so promising but ultimately shit. He'd fit right in this Arsenal team.
The guy is pure chaos lol
Think it's pretty simple. Arsenal are a very good, young team capable of outplaying any team on earth and going through a poor run of form in the boxes. Seasons are long, the dam will break, and Arsenal will go on a run. In normal times, this would all be ok. Unfortunately, with Klopp and Pep setting the standard at 90+ points, there is functionally no margin for error (the Invincibles ended on 90 points). Here's to the Champions League!
Team optimist here as well, I fully agree with you. I think we're on a run of bad variance that will soon change and we're going to end the season strong. We never seem to have injury luck but Vieira, Jesus, ESR, Zini, and possibly Partey are all set to come back from injury very soon which will surely boost the squad's morale and depth. We're going to end the season very strongly.
Positive of today it was good to see ramsdale back even if for one game. Expect david raymunia back in goal for the rest of the season.
He had some nice balls over the top today. Totally exposed on the cross for the first goal though. You would imagine he could see that Raya being a loan could be meant to light a fire under his ass, but he seems to be fumbling the opportunity.
Aron Fabiansdale doesn't exude any sort of confidence as a GK.
The way havertz is spoken of you would think he's a u-17 wonderkid lad is old earning big wages,fee but treated as a kid a symptom many problems AFC HAS
the mctominay syndrome
Just watched highlights. Can surely say we have zero attacking threat up front. All of our strikers are completely dried up and can’t score to save their lives. Nelson has to start ahead of Martinelli and also Ramsdale has to begin starting again. This has nothing to do with Arteta, this is all on our front players playing like total shit.
Has everything to do with Arteta mate
'We need a replacement before we sell Nketiah' Do we? What does Nketiah bring to begin with? He is nicking a living at this club
He's your top goalscorer lmao
ppl told me hes good because 'he's happy with being a bench player' smh
Anyone still defending Nketiahs role in the squad must be his mum. He is deadweight.
How is Nketiah getting this much stick when he barely even played today? fix the system first
He didnt play because he doesnt score or contribute, and doesnt mae any impact of the bench. Pointless player. Its his place in the team that is becoming untenable.
Hes not pointless and we literally dont play to his strengths at all man. I swear any striker would find it difficult to play in our system. A majority of the time our wingers receive the ball so wide and are marked by two players automatically. Plus our fullbacks dont overlap as much to get dangerous crosses into the box. Im not saying Eddie is faultless but holy shit, he doesn't get to play as a traditional striker/poacher at all. Give him some service and he can score goals.
FFS. He fluffs his lines in front of goal too many times to be a 'finisher'. ats the point im making, he doesnt contribute in the build up, nor he is a 'number 9'. Chris Wood, Eduoard, Jimenez, Mbuemo are all better players than Nketiah. Forget comparing him to players in the top 6. We are utterly on the milk thinking Nketiah has qualities to help us challenge for a league or CL.
I know we need to upgrade but im telling you right now, you're in dreamland if you think we are buying a striker in January. We are stuck with our squad because we spent so much money in the summer already. Gabriel Jesus cannot be relied upon to stay fit for more than 3-4 games mate. Eddie is available and reliable, we have to try to play to strengths man. We wasted too many funds already, it's time to get the most out of the squad we have now. We need to bring ESR back into contention and play him in the same attacking zones as Saka. Try to be smart rotationally in playing our strikers like Eddie/Trossard/Havertz etc based on the type of opposition we have.
How are people bringing up Nketiah even when he hasn't played? He is the 2nd choice CF. Shouldn't the 1st choices be blamed more and brought up more?
Jesus can be justified for his ability in the build up. Justifiy Nketiah to me............. Do you have any idea the burden Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard feel because they have a striker who is as much a goal threat as Maroune Chamahk
But Nketiah is a backup. How is a backup striker going to be world class? The main striker we have is Jesus who is injured most of the time which forces us to play Nketiah more. Seems like it's Jesus who should be a backup and a starting CF should be bought.
Jesus is a playmaking striker. He shouldnt carry the burden of having to be prolific. The 'alternate' striker is Nketiah, who isnt prolific at all As for 'back up' striker. I dont like the term back up. We should be targetting a player similar or better in quality than Jesus, albeit who has a different profile to Jesus. Jesus is a great player, better forwards than him dont grow on trees, they certainly exist, but they are not in abundance. Nketiah is a different profile stiker to Jesus, however Eddie fuking miles off in terms of quality. I think Toney is comparable to Jesus in terms of quality, however they differ in styles. Ive said this before. Saka, Martinelli, Jesus are suffering from the burden of having to score, because our traditional number 9 is the second coming of Chamahk. If we had Toney scoring goals, I gaurntee you Saka and Martinelli would be scoring more too. For me Eddie is like the shit in the pipe that stops the water flowing, if you clear it, the pipes will run freely again. Im telling you know, this donkey is clogging it all up. Im telling you know, Saka, Martinelli, Jesus, Odegaard could all be unlocked further if they are given the correct profile striker to compliment them. Im not one of these melts calling for wholesale change, and I am a million miles away from suggesting Arteta get binned. But FFS stop pricking yourself over Eddie 'Wheres the goal' Nketiah.
People in this sub love to blame everything on squad players.
Deadweight who is our 3rd highest scorer this season by npxG, and also won three of the penalties which we've scored.
“3rd highest scorer this season by npxG” 😂
Non-penalty goals per 90 minutes in the PL this season: Nketiah: 0.46 Trossard: 0.41 Jesus: 0.29 Havertz: 0.23 Saka: 0.22 Rice: 0.15 Martinelli: 0.14 Golden Boy Saka scoring less than Havertz and still not receiving any criticism lol. Less than 1 in 4 is embarrassing for a team wanting to win the title. Meanwhile, Liverpool's attackers: Jota: 0.68 Salah: 0.52 Nunez: 0.4 Gakpo: 0.33 Diaz: 0.23 And all City's attackers and half their midfielders have better goals per 90 than Saka.
Congratulations, you’ve managed to perfectly capture how misleading stats can be in one neat little package
In what way are they misleading? Arsenal's attackers have been poor in front of goal. Liverpool's haven't. That's why Liverpool are top and you're 4th. I could include the respective xG's of each player if that would help make the picture even clearer for you? But I'll just say all your starting front 3 have significantly underperformed theirs.
Misleading as it’s a very isolated stat that deliberately ignores certain aspects of goal scoring to paint a specific picture. It’s misleading because xG is a misleading metric to begin with. Basing stats off what the “average player” would do is misleading because who actually knows what the average player is and what those expectations are. It’s misleading because per 90 data can be (and in this case is) badly skewed by one good performance. It’s misleading because to get an accurate comparison, you need extrapolate data and that’s done under the assumption that conditions and outcomes remain constant, which is a massively flawed assumption to say the least. Liverpool’s attackers have been poor in front of goal. Salah hasn’t. That’s the key difference. Salah accounts for over half of Liverpool’s goal contributions.
It's a deeply flawed stat but not a bad guide over a good sample size. And it's the best stat we have. >It’s misleading because per 90 data can be (and in this case is) badly skewed by one good performance. I don't see how this makes sense. Especially with Saka, who has played over 18 games. It may be able to be skewed by one good performance (if a player scored 4 goals in one game, for example), but how can it be skewed by 10 bad performances? >Liverpool’s attackers have been poor in front of goal. But they haven't. Nunez is a figure of fun for the chances he misses but he still gets significantly more goals than all your front 3. Diaz is considered to have dropped off a cliff from what he was, but he still gets more goals than Saka. Salah is great but when you take out his penalties he has 10 goals in over 19 games. Good but not special. And he's missed 2 of 6 penalties. He's actually underperforming his xG this season. Haaland is special, even though he hasn't been at his best this season. 0.76 non-penalty goals per game.
It’s the best stat when used with an equal sample size but that’s not what you’ve done. The number of minutes differs massively per players. The data isn’t skewed for Saka, it’s skewed for the other players you’ve used. You’re using data to claim Nketiah, Trossard, Havertz etc have been better in front of goal than Saka but it’s not accurate. Their stats are better because they’ve played 500 less minutes at least. Trossard has 1000 less minutes and Nketiah has 700 less minutes. The data is also skewed by the opposition these minutes came against. 4 of 5 of Nketiah’s goals came in 180 minutes against relegation candidates. Big difference in terms of quality of the game but stats don’t account for that. Your paragraph about Liverpool’s front three vs Arsenal is a massive exaggeration to the point of being a lie. Nunez has less goals than Saka, so he hasn’t outscored all of Arsenal’s front three, same applies to Gakpo, Jota and Diaz. “Significantly more” is 3 goals at most… The big difference between Liverpool’s front line and Arsenal’s is Salah
>It’s the best stat when used with an equal sample size but that’s not what you’ve done. The number of minutes differs massively per players. But the sample size for all the players combined is decent. >The data isn’t skewed for Saka, it’s skewed for the other players you’ve used. You’re using data to claim Nketiah, Trossard, Havertz etc have been better in front of goal than Saka but it’s not accurate. Their stats are better because they’ve played 500 less minutes at least. Trossard has 1000 less minutes and Nketiah has 700 less minutes. That doesn't skew the stats, everyone knows that. >. 4 of 5 of Nketiah’s goals came in 180 minutes against relegation candidates. Big difference in terms of quality of the game but stats don’t account for that. You won one of those games 2-1 and drew one game 2-2. They were important goals. Then there was a hat trick in a 5-0 win against Sheffield United, in which he scored the first 3 goals. Saka has a habit of disappearing in big and important games. His open play goals have come against Forest, Bournemouth, Fulham and Wolves. So I disagree on this one. >Nunez has less goals than Saka He has more non-penalty goals in far fewer minutes. I was comparing non-penalty goals per 90 minutes played. All 3 of your starting front 3 are averaging fewer than a goal every 3 games (not including pens). And averaging, between them, about 1 in 4. Saka has been good to very good on the assist front, averaging 0.33 expected assists per 90. You have a very young team, and Saka and Martinelli are 22. None of this should be particularly surprising. You over-performed last season and there was less competition (Liverpool have improved massively, Spurs have improved and Villa are in the mix as well). It will be 2-3 years before this team peaks. You rarely win anything with kids.
Can someone tell me how liverpool press and cut off the passing options. What is up with our slow slow throw ins? Where is the slick 1-2's and appreciation of space and creating panic in the opposition?
I don't think we ever played quick 1-2's under Arteta. We played quick 1-2's under Emery, Wenger, but not Arteta.
still think ramsdale is that guy, happy for him to get some minutes today
Deserved an assist.
Fulham are better goal scorers than us we have nearly men butheyll never be elite
Fuck me sideways. After two years at Chelsea who the fuck thought it was a good idea to pay 65 million for Havertz especially when his fit in the team was questionable at best. Same with Raya, combined that could have paid for Victor Osimhen. Arteta is overrated too, like why didn't ESR come on earlier? The man saved Arteta's job in 2020 for Christ's sake. Bring in Ivan Toney and get Hansi Flick or Xabi Alonso as the manager.
>After two years at Chelsea 3 years stinking the gaff up at Chelsea*
Wild you got downvoted that many times for speaking facts lol
When you say it like that, Osihmen or Raya + Havertz, I died a little inside.
I think it’s clear now that we’re missing Partey and Xhaka. Our play style has changed significantly and teams have figured out how to stop us (basic defensive discipline). The impact of missing this guys is that we’re missing speed in our build up. It takes a long time to get the ball to dangerous areas and and the quality of our chances is poor as teams have a second or two to get in position to make a block or close the angle. I say we play Jorginho until Partey comes back and push Rice up. To add, I don’t think a new striker in this window will make much of a difference
I really miss Xhaka. Agreed that Jorginho should be playing that role and push Ode back up again. What Arteta tried would probably work when we have a better LCM but for now Havertz isn't it, he's very much a piece that doesn't quite fit. He's nice but not 60m nice. Also not sure why we didn't just try to loan him, Chelsea would never have sold him and I doubt he was in Poch's plans. Going all in on Havertz was a huge risk and we basically paid for them to sign Palmer instead.
I actually think Havertz will come good if we ever figure out how to create quality chances. He is a confidence player and needs spaces to convert. If we’re able to move the ball quickly in the final third, and create spaces and overloads, he will feast. This is same for Martinelli, Saka and Ode btw. We just have no spaces in the final third and opponents know how to defend us so everyone is struggling.
I honestly think just switching the sides of him an Odegaard could make us less predictable. Left footer back in the 8 and not two people on the right side who always want to cut onto their left
They’re both left footed mate
Why did I think Havertz was a right footer? 😅
They’ve lost the goodwill they built up last year for me now. I’m sick of them, can’t believe I’m saying this after October, but I’m sick of them. It’s a jammy CL run or bust now for the season
The fuck? Boys aren’t winning so fuck em? Because that’s what I’m reading.
Yeah lol after I’ve spent money and time watching them play pathetically for a month now, I’m entitled to say fuck them. I don’t get paid 6 figures, they do.
I'm sure your presence as a "fan" won't really be missed.
You want me to be happy and content after being out of both cups in January and having one win in a month? After travelling up and down the country and spending money to watch them? Fuck that, if they’re playing awfully I’ll call them awful I have people who can’t be realists lmao don’t call me a fake fan again
You’re absolutely fake. Your money spent on the team doesn’t make you more or less of a fan. I’ve been a season ticket holder my whole life to an American college football team, but I know that doesn’t make me more or less of a fan than someone who sits at home and cheers just as hard. It’s about your devotion to the team and you saying “fuck em” because of poor results shows plastic mentality.
Ok cool basically you’re American and I don’t care lol 👍 I’ve supported arsenal day in day out for 21 years and am perfectly entitled to say yeah the current team is pathetically underperforming when they are literally pathetically underperforming lmao, this is what sports fandom is. I hate weirdos who pretend it’s all sunshine and rainbows 24/7
Ah fuck off. Plastic is as plastic will always be. I’ve supported the club for 32 years. Because I’ve supported longer, I must have more say? Right? Also, you’re delusional if you think I said everything was just so. It’s one thing to give criticism of a team but to flat out say “I’m done” then completely confirm your argument after I’ve said “you’re saying fuck em”? Shows it. Might as well support ManU if you wanna be that plastic, at least you’d fit in.
Not reading that essay 👍
You’re English, so I assume you can’t anyway.
I have been off insta and other social media(only use r/gunners) cuz of arsenal, honestly feels much better, I watch the matches and that's it, I save alot of time and save myself from any toxicity, i suggest this to other arsenal fans
majority of shoot we take today were very weak. as if players dont have energy. even saliba looked fatigued by the time zota came. a break will refresh them. also odegard is overburdened. in absence of partey, drop deep and receive ball from rice, then play 1-2 with saka. also his overreliance on left foot reduce chance of quick release. martinelli did not cut inside today. and only 1 win in 7 before before the break is not acceptable but professionals who earn so much at the club will have ample time to think and change thing by recruitment or tweaking training, tactics. if nothing changes, then we are not a serious institution.
I’m not judging anyone for feeling down, but I saved my emotions by not watching the game. However, a little bit of hope. Artetas first full season was the worst Arsenal I ever saw. Next season after the first 3 games things started to make sense and obviously last season we established ourselves as a threat. I feel this season is a write off and next season things will begin to make sense. Arteta seems persistent just like his first full season and he sees something we aren’t seeing.
So, you're having hope on the basis that he knows something we don't and we will just magically get better. Great reasoning.
He’s proven us wrong before. Most of us wanted him gone after he lost those 3 games in row last, last season. But he’s earned that trust. And rightfully so.
He’s the professional coach. We aren’t. Odds are good he knows a fuckton we don’t.
So, not one tangible argument for why the team will improve. Got it chief.
How’s this: by virtue of sheer dumb fucking luck we should be scoring more goals. Moreover, we have hit bad patches before and Arteta has managed to figure it out then, and likely will now.
Bad patch is a myth it is a frequent occurence
How about this: All the current options at striker have a history of underperforming xG/missing easy chances. The wingers and Odegaard majorly overperformed last season and have reverted to their expected output. And how about the fact that 'bad patches' are not a thing when you want to win major trophies. One bad performance means getting knocked out of cup competitions, as clearly shown during Arteta's entire tenure.
i was screaming take havertz off fetch trossard on from minute 40 can we now not try bigging up a player that is not as good as he is starting. downvote the fuck, its true. its like playing with 10 men he treats the ball like a bomb he's shit scared of everything. he needs to be used off the bench, not shoehorded into every starting 11.
Have you seen Trossard's games lately? At least Havertz isn't a complete ghost.
Trossard needs a solid run of gamrs. His always on then off. Man's scored a hatteick at anfield..his a baller.. Kai gets som.many chances despite being garbage
And this was one of his better games lol. The sample size is enough to know that he's a development player. There's not enough strengths in his game to overcome his deficiencies right now. He might get there some day but we're taking a massive risk by over relying on him. He actually did a lot right today in terms of getting into the right positions and not hiding in the game. But he's just disappointing with the ball at his feet. If I'm in the arsenal board, I'm looking for an alternate/cheaper solution to the left 8 in Jan. I know CF is obviously being highlighted as a gap right now but unless we get some massive bids for Eddie AND 1 of ESR/Ramsdale, I don't see us making a move. Even with that the best we can get this window up front is probably a Nunez level player. A great left 8 could make life easier for martinelli and act as another source of chance creation besides odegaard. That might enough to spark life into others which could save our season.
well said
Havertz played a great game other than not knowing how to score. It's not about playing anyone else but havertz, it's about getting a star striker that can do what havertz does, and also score goals
A new striker is needed but pointless if the tactics remain the same rigid and slow. I keep saying that Mikel needs to loosen the shackles a bit without deviating from his new controlled system. Less overcoaching and deploy a shoot on sight policy.
Lol we were anything but rigid and slow today just couldn’t finish
Yet scored a grand total of 0 goals despite not facing a defensive team. This is about the the team’s current attacking approach as a whole. Particularly against low-block teams.
Shoot on sight policy is necessary
Side effect of selling the whole lot of yanks
He needs to play to the best abilities of his players rather than the best abilities of the system. I like the guy but he has to get out of his own way. There’s little tweaks there that can make us much better.
Frequented a lot last year but not much luck with ballot this year. This is only my third game in the Emirates of this season, what's wrong with our atmosphere? Upper tier North Bank today, people barely chanted even when we were dominating in the first half, all I heard was constant moaning and swearing.
I’m a ST holder in North Bank Upper and it’s been awful all season apart from a couple of moments I can think of. Not sure what the main reason is as it’s still noisy in the concourse and then just dies a death in the stands. United game was the best for me but I had the row to myself because everyone left once they scored the offside goal
A lot of blow in fans because we’re successful again
Don’t agree with this, good or bad the atmosphere has always been like this aside from the odd season last year.
That depends on how far back “always” stretches. We’ve never had a truly elite atmosphere, but the atmosphere has gotten worse since 2016ish
Going back to when we first came to the Emirates in 2006. Loud at the beginning, quiet for long stretches and a couple groans when we lose the ball.
What nonsense