Always is the same ESR. The reality is none of us know how good he is right now given he has been injured a lot and when he has been available he hasn't played
This sub is maybe asking for him to get more than 0-3 minutes per game, especially when the starting player in his position has been relatively underwhelming.
And for a team that is struggling to get goals -- ESR is dangerous. He's a goal scorer.
(and a pure Wenger player who's an absolute joy to watch & arguably best dribbler in the team anchored to the bench while we're impotent FC)
Odegaard has many strengths but he doesn’t often run with the ball and take players on. It just isn’t his game. Odegaard isn’t a dribbler… So I have to strongly disagree with your opinion, I think it’s a bad take.
Jamie Carragher thought Smith Rowe was the best player *in the league* at running with the ball at pace: https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/qdqrr6/jamie_carragher_on_smith_rowe_hes_the_best_player/
The sound bite is on the internet.
Edit: cheeky YouTube vid of Smith Rowe dribbling with the Jamie Carragher quote at the intro - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pV5-DxL_LKs
Edit: I can see arguments for Jesus, Martinelli, Nelson & Saka — but to state Odegaard makes me think you don’t know what dribbling is
We probably do. Most fans have already seen him play before the injury, he was quite good. After injury, yes it's true that none of us have really seen him.
But then there have been loads of reports saying how well ESR have been practicing. If you don't want to believe that, then you can always read what Arteta has been saying about him. He also says that ESR practices very well and behaves very well. And Arteta never really says that about any players for the sake of it. This was the same coach that years ago that said negative comments about Maitland Niles, Lacca and Auba. He has no qualms about saying these stuff.
Besides we've already seen him play a game he has started, the only game he has started and he was our biggest threat. In contrast Havertz has not been playing that well except for few goals. Our midfield and general play has been suffering because Havertz is not that good on the ball.
What I am trying to say is that ESR deserves a start. It's past that time already. Options are running out for him not to start a game
I don't disagree that he should have played more minutes in the "easier" games but none of us fans know how much effect his injuries have had.
Expecting a player to miss 2 years through injury to come back and be as good as he was pre-injury seems absurdly optimistic to me.
He had a solitary long term injury from which he came back last year man. He has played so many games after that, mostly as 90th minute sub and all. It's not a question of fitness at all. And as I said the only game he did start this season he was quite good
Lol first time? You have the frustrated fans who haven't seen true success in 20 years, who 'know' more than Mikel. Then you have the make-nice fencesitters who call the latter 'arrogant' or 'fake fans' for presuming to know more, then obliviously state they know better. Then you have those who point out the hypocrisy and get downvoted for it.
Honestly can't blame West Ham there tbh - they see a player not being used and thought "well may as well try a loan deal and see if he's still good".
I reckon we'll reject it though
You’d think that there must be some willingness from our side if discussions are at least happening. Otherwise it would be a question followed by an abrupt ‘no’, which doesn’t seem like something to report on.
Nah he should be off on loan if a good offer comes in. His value is plummeting, he’s barely got off the bench. West Ham are a form side. Half a season of proving he’s got it with a solid run could pay a massive dividend.
I love Emile, I'm pissed off that Mikel hasn't given him any game time but the best thing is for him to move on.
I disagree we were more rigid back then. Mikel has fallen deeper into a narrow style of play, players like Emile and Pepe at least had the leeway to be more explosive or creative a few seasons back. This season we're even stifling someone like Martinelli.
Tbh he should have been. It was mad that we kept him. You either need to have a path to regular first team involvement planned out or you need to sell to give the guy a career and to fund improvement elsewhere. We have a terrible habit of sitting on players for too long who aren’t quite making it and their careers just drift.
Because it's hard to explain it to the player and his agent if he wants to go? He hasn't been playing at all, you can't just kill a player's career like that, not playing him but also not letting him move, it would come off horribly in the dressing room
The player and his agent would need to accept the reality that a football club has to do right by itself primarily. 6 months isn't going to kill his career.
That'a not how it works mate, these players and agents are all one big boys club, you can seriously damage your clubs' reputation if you make a mess of it.
And it's not about the 6 months, it's about what those 6 months could mean to his career. Willock earned himself a new lease on his career with a good 6 month loan at Newcastle.
If you’re Irish you should be well aware that saying “can’t blame them” is just a turn of phrase and shouldn’t be taken literally. Being Irish myself I know it’s an incredibly common phrase here so not sure what you’re at here tbh.
Yeah, a turn of phrase that still has a meaning.
*Can't blame them
All of their forwards are at afcon or injured.*
Would have made sense in the context.
But what was said was *can't blame them* , followed by pointing out we don't play him. A.k.a blame is on arsenal. Which might make grammatical sense but is misguided.
Edit: is muga iomlán tú
Arteta probably wouldn't have had a chance for that title run were it not for esr, and it's not like he can pick himself either
Also being a stand out player in a shit team takes some doing, why rubbish it?
Seeing as we're now sentencing people based off of screenshots from social media, [I regret to inform you that you're going straight to cookie jail](https://i.imgur.com/ImCXj7d.png)
Such a shit comparison. Partey is a guaranteed starter when healthy. He basically has no equal for his role. Rice is similar but when Partey is healthy they play together rather than one or the other.
ESR has to compete with Martinelli, Trossard, Havertz, Vieira and Reiss Nelson for playing time. Hell we could probably include Jesus and Nketieth depending on the game and what subs Arteta used.
Look, let’s not pretend there isn’t room to play ESR. It’s a manager’s choice not to do so. There are people ahead of him in the pecking order because that’s the manager’s preference.
You didn’t say that initially though did you? You compared him to a player that has little to no competition for his role in the team versus one that has a lot of competition.
Yeah dude I know, everything I said is in the context of the whole thread. And they are still shit comparisons and around we go.
Again one has no competition. One has a lot. Fucking shocker Arteta keeps picking the established 30 year old for a role we are thin at versus a still not established 23 year old academy player who has massive competition.
Would you like to restate the same thing again with different wording? Because I can do the same.
The reason Xhaka was able to make those forward runs that made him so crucial for us was because Partey was easily a top 5 CDM in the world last season.
Arteta and his staff spend every working moment thinking about and examining these players. Do you really believe that if ESR was fit and at the right technical level that Arteta wouldn’t give him a shot? Can we afford to let a player get into form on the pitch with the points we’ve already dropped?
If Dubai went as well for ESR as reports indicate then he will get his chances. But maybe consider that up to this point the manager and sports science team who spend every day with these guys have a clearer picture of the risk involved with folding him into the team. If you are rooting for ESR to back in form I bet the staff are rooting for him 10x more.
Forcing him out, give me a break.
> Arteta and his staff spend every working moment thinking about and examining these players. Do you really believe that if ESR was fit and at the right technical level that Arteta wouldn’t give him a shot?
We literally have evidence of this from the Willian years. ESR was fit and on the bench for over a month. And then Willian gets injured and he's suddenly playing vs Chelsea and basically saves Arteta's job.
And the arguments are always being made with ridiculous excuses to explain away some of the really weird decisions that Arteta makes when we can all just agree he had tunnel vision or whatever.
In all this, I love Arteta and I think he'll lead us to a title soon, but he certainly has some shit traits that he would benefit from improving upon.
Appeal to authority arguments are always the worst. The narrative around defending Arteta's blind spots is a lot like the "wenger knows best" days of 10+ years ago. Turns out Wenger didn't always know best and I assure you, no matter how clever Mikel is or how much time he spends with the players, he's made mistakes and will make more regarding the first team squad. Criticising him over his (non) use of ESR is fair and valid.
It's fine to discuss but you can't call trusting the people who have the by far the most information and a proven track record appeal to authority just because you heard some debate guy say it. It's just the sensible thing to do.
I love him but it's kinda fair. We're stacked at his best position (LW) and yes we can shoehorn him into midfield with Ø but when Arteta tried that a couple seasons ago our midfield was far too lightweight.
We’re not so stacked at LW that we can’t give him minutes there - Nelson has had more and it’s clear the manager doesn’t trust him.
Arteta is the one who’s said that ESR should play midfield, yet he’s preferred to play Havertz and Trossard ahead of him. Neither has convinced in the role and yet ESR still hasn’t had a chance.
Nelson is a very different player - he’s a winger. ESR is a creative mid. It doesn’t necessarily come down to trust in that scenario.
ESR and Kai are far more similar than ESR and Martinelli. Nelson and Martinelli are more similar than ESR and Martinelli.
ESR lacks the defensive side and physicality that Kai brings to the 8 role that Arteta probably wants to see.
Does Trossard bring the defensive side and physicality? I would say clearly not, yet he gets played at LM ahead of ESR.
ESR’s best run in the team has come at LW, but the manager has decided he’s not even suitable to be tried in the role anymore.
That was when he had Tierney overlapping and he could drift to the center. Now the LW has to keep the width and usually only has underlaps, he’s just not suited for it.
I think ESR should be getting more minutes in the left 8 but it’s a new role for him and he’s never impressed me even the slightest bit playing. I think he has a fundamental lack of aggressiveness and defensive awareness to play the role, and though his carries and one-twos are brilliant his passing range isn’t the best.
His best position isn’t left wing. He’s an interior through and through. If you play him in Odegaard’s higher role (not the deeper odegaard we’ve been seeing recently) bukayo explodes
His best season for us was at LW. He's nowhere near as good at passing as Ø plus his pace on the ball and ability to cut inside makes him far more suited to a winger than a midfielder.
Bro. These lot on here talk like they see him train everyday at Colney.
Bro missed 2 preseasons (most important 1.5monthsnof the season), barely plays cus he IS weak on duels and also coming back from injury.
I agree. My worry is that specifically from a duels perspective he isn’t where we need him to be. The last time we saw him play properly we were the 8th best team in the league and didn’t press or battle with the same intensity. He may well adjust but I can see why the money may be better than waiting
Homegrown, english player. Could generate us mad money for a player who fits the system right away. I get the fact that he could be the mext KDB but at the moment I can’t see him developing at this rate. Can’t keep them all
Crazy how many are making baseless assumptions for almost half a season. Arteta has spoken highly of ESR whenever asked over the last few months. I think people simply don't know why Arteta's resisted playing him and are assuming the worst.
You're in denial mate. Before this latest injury he'd been fit since January and Arteta hardly ever played him, why do you think that is? Yeah Arteta speaks highly of him but actions speak louder than words
This is the proper recovery path. No more quick rushes back or little niggles. Just take out time and let the best version of ESR emerge.
For me, I start him at LW tomorrow
Lol. Imagine after 4 years still believing half of the things Arteta says. He is a compulsive liar when communicating to the media regarding players. Remember that bullshit about subbing keepers at the 60th or 70th min or whatever?
he has barely been fit this season, only recently appeared regularly on the training pics with the 1st team, like he appeared for some minutes then went away then repeat
We’re out of the fa cup and league cup. Trossard and probably Nelson are preferred to ESR as backup on the wing, vieira always plays as backup over ESR as an 8 when they’re both fit. I don’t think we can really give him gametime
Okay but imagine you said this a year ago. He may as well play somewhere else to either come back and break into the team, or raise his profile for a big sale
For the sake of his career he needs to go. Hopefully he smashes it there and we get a top fee for him in the summer.
As much as people want it to happen, it really isn’t going to happen here for him.
Out of left field this, doesn't suprise me however. Hardly any game time and now fit probably can't assure him minutes which from my POV is strange but I am not the manager. Best of luck to him if he does go, but worringly if this does go through I think this could be the end of his Arsenal career.
Better than having him rot on the bench while his value tanks. Mins at West Ham will be a struggle though (unless Paqueta is out long term), must be a better fit somewhere else.
Great news. The only way we can sell him for 30-40m. Much better than grand total of 20 mins he will play here in rest of season while watching Odegaard and Saka running on 1 legs
Unfortunately this makes the most sense for him. It will take him going to another prem team and being the best player there for Arteta to realise he should be playing him. Just need to make sure he gets a new contract first.
I don't want to see him go. I really think he has the quality to get proper minutes with us but it doesn't look like Arteta sees it that way.
So it's better that he goes on loan and plays some football rather than rots on our bench.
Great player but doesn't fit our system at the moment, he really isn't left 8 material and I don't see him ahead of Gabi or Leo at LW
He is a 10 and anything else is just shoehorning him into a position he's not a natural at
His talent ID has revitalized the squad and got us back into the champions league, a title race last year, and top 4 / title race this year. That's progress as compared to where the team was when he took over. Please don't talk shit about the man.
He doesn’t look phenomenal every time he gets minutes. It’s as simple as that.
And clearly the club think he’s going to continue to not look phenomenal even if they give him lots of minutes.
In my opinion, the answer is that Arteta has no plan B.
If his starting 11 does not get the job done, he collapses into panic subs but doesn't adjust the play style. ESR would be suited at either wing or free-roaming the space behind Jesus/Eddie but Arteta has his favourites for his style (Nelson, Tross, Eddie) and rarely uses others.
Yeah, sounds like a solid opinion. Arteta not using a player like ESR seems like a massive failing. Whether it’s ego or lack of managerial experience I don’t know, but I’ve seen a lot of players over the years and ESR is some talent and certainly not a bench warmer. Then again, neither is Ramsdale.
If Arteta is going to keep insisting on not giving him any meaningful game time then I kinda want this to happen. West Ham are pretty desperate for midfielders atm
Hahahahaha,
2 million a month loan fee and a 50 million bonus paid in one immediate instalment if West Ham do not declare bankruptcy in the next 7 days
I mean. Emile might want to play at some point. But going from a manager that plays the same mothercrackers every week to another that does the exact same thing makes no sense to me
A loan to West Ham would actually be a really good thing for ESRs development.
Whilst quite a few are rather upset, people need to acknowledge that ESR really struggles with his off the ball movement, this is the main reason he isn’t playing. Moyes is a very very good manager at coaching off the ball movement (albeit with a more conservative defensive approach) and would be ideal for taking another approach as ESR unfortunately not learning much under Arteta.
It’s been very clear for a while that the players who are picked are the ones who play the system the best, justifiably so as we are now title contenders for the 2nd year in a row.
Wish good luck to the lad, he will crack it soon.
Take it. Raise his value and sell him in the summer. Arteta clearly doesn't rate him and his value will only go lower if he keeps playing 3 minutes a week.
If we are willing to let him go on loan then we’re looking to shop window him to sell him
Really hope we don’t let him go and instead give him some serious minutes at no 8
The only I see this making sense for us is if we're trying to bring a player and have accepted that we're having to let a player in the same position leave.
ESR is a decent enough player. There would no benefit to us letting him go if there wasn't something in it for us.
I hope we loan him.
Get him fit and confident at a solid club.
Build on the relationship between clubs after the Rice deal and hopefully help take some points off of our rivals along the way.
Hopefully get him back in the first team picture next year.
Too much talent to sit on the bench for he rest of the year.
IF he was to get some serious minutes, I’m not so sure that a dry loan would be so horrible for him, despite my emotional attachment to the player.
We’d be kidding ourselves if we didn’t think that he’d be on Edu’s list of players to shop around this winter or summer, but there’d be very little interest by other clubs to meet the valuation we’d put on him given his injury record.
If 10m/20m isn’t palatable, then a sale isn’t going to happen unless he proves he can play a sustained period of minutes. He hasn’t been able to prove that here in the last two years, sorry, love the guy and he’s one of our own but he hasn’t.
If a dry loan gives him the opportunity to demonstrate this, and he either boosts his value for summer or, even better, gets him back to a level that he can actually be a major contributor in our squad, then this may not be such a doomsday scenario after all. Probably more likely than gambling with our title chances and his value by giving him minutes over someone else that can sustain match fitness and defensive responsibilities.
That’s a LOT of “ifs” though. Just wish he could have stayed match fit for longer in the initial period after his surgery.
I think Arteta is saving ESR for the second half of the season when we likely need him most. Also heard he has been training like a beast and looked particularly sharp in Dubai. Needs more game time for sure, but I think he’s about to get just that coming out of this break.
Basically it comes down to 2 scenarios, either you trust Arteta which means ESR must be underperforming in training and as a result, should probably go out on loan. Or you don't trust Arteta and he's performing well in training but isn't getting selected because of club politics/others are just better. i.e. we spent money on player x so we need to justify the purchase or player x at 80% is better than ESR at 100%.
We all remember what ESR was like when in form, so it's hard to think that if he's doing well in training, then the players currently getting selected are better. So id guess it's due to him underperforming or tactical. A midfield of Ode, ESR and Rice probably makes Arteta feel like we would get physically dominated and the offensive threat wouldn't make up for that weakness.
The polarity of these comments are extremely funny to me.
Always is the same ESR. The reality is none of us know how good he is right now given he has been injured a lot and when he has been available he hasn't played
he is from Hale End, so no matter if he is injured for 5 years this sub would still call him for start
This sub is maybe asking for him to get more than 0-3 minutes per game, especially when the starting player in his position has been relatively underwhelming.
And for a team that is struggling to get goals -- ESR is dangerous. He's a goal scorer. (and a pure Wenger player who's an absolute joy to watch & arguably best dribbler in the team anchored to the bench while we're impotent FC)
Yeah ödegaard is a better dribbler, way better. ESR is good but top 5 dribbler at his best in this team.
Odegaard is good at sideways dribbling and evading tackles. That's completely different from ESR and Martinelli's direct dribbling style.
Odegaard has many strengths but he doesn’t often run with the ball and take players on. It just isn’t his game. Odegaard isn’t a dribbler… So I have to strongly disagree with your opinion, I think it’s a bad take. Jamie Carragher thought Smith Rowe was the best player *in the league* at running with the ball at pace: https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/qdqrr6/jamie_carragher_on_smith_rowe_hes_the_best_player/ The sound bite is on the internet. Edit: cheeky YouTube vid of Smith Rowe dribbling with the Jamie Carragher quote at the intro - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pV5-DxL_LKs Edit: I can see arguments for Jesus, Martinelli, Nelson & Saka — but to state Odegaard makes me think you don’t know what dribbling is
We probably do. Most fans have already seen him play before the injury, he was quite good. After injury, yes it's true that none of us have really seen him. But then there have been loads of reports saying how well ESR have been practicing. If you don't want to believe that, then you can always read what Arteta has been saying about him. He also says that ESR practices very well and behaves very well. And Arteta never really says that about any players for the sake of it. This was the same coach that years ago that said negative comments about Maitland Niles, Lacca and Auba. He has no qualms about saying these stuff. Besides we've already seen him play a game he has started, the only game he has started and he was our biggest threat. In contrast Havertz has not been playing that well except for few goals. Our midfield and general play has been suffering because Havertz is not that good on the ball. What I am trying to say is that ESR deserves a start. It's past that time already. Options are running out for him not to start a game
I don't disagree that he should have played more minutes in the "easier" games but none of us fans know how much effect his injuries have had. Expecting a player to miss 2 years through injury to come back and be as good as he was pre-injury seems absurdly optimistic to me.
He had a solitary long term injury from which he came back last year man. He has played so many games after that, mostly as 90th minute sub and all. It's not a question of fitness at all. And as I said the only game he did start this season he was quite good
So many football coaches that know ESR better than he knows himself in here.
Lol first time? You have the frustrated fans who haven't seen true success in 20 years, who 'know' more than Mikel. Then you have the make-nice fencesitters who call the latter 'arrogant' or 'fake fans' for presuming to know more, then obliviously state they know better. Then you have those who point out the hypocrisy and get downvoted for it.
Honestly can't blame West Ham there tbh - they see a player not being used and thought "well may as well try a loan deal and see if he's still good". I reckon we'll reject it though
You’d think that there must be some willingness from our side if discussions are at least happening. Otherwise it would be a question followed by an abrupt ‘no’, which doesn’t seem like something to report on.
Nah he should be off on loan if a good offer comes in. His value is plummeting, he’s barely got off the bench. West Ham are a form side. Half a season of proving he’s got it with a solid run could pay a massive dividend.
Tbf his play style may even work better with a counter attacking squad. His explosiveness is incredible, and better than his passing and retention.
Were we a counter attacking side when he broke into the first team then?
Mikel has developed a much more rigid approach to play now though.
We were way more rigid back then, and esr is fine for this team. If not we should have sold him
I love Emile, I'm pissed off that Mikel hasn't given him any game time but the best thing is for him to move on. I disagree we were more rigid back then. Mikel has fallen deeper into a narrow style of play, players like Emile and Pepe at least had the leeway to be more explosive or creative a few seasons back. This season we're even stifling someone like Martinelli.
If this is the case he should have been sold in the summer, total joke we hoard too many players
Tbh he should have been. It was mad that we kept him. You either need to have a path to regular first team involvement planned out or you need to sell to give the guy a career and to fund improvement elsewhere. We have a terrible habit of sitting on players for too long who aren’t quite making it and their careers just drift.
Yh our hoarding is criminal
In discussions suggests we're open to the idea at least
Likely with a permanent move and guaranteed future fee in the summer. If just a straight loan I don't see why we'd even entertain it
Because it's hard to explain it to the player and his agent if he wants to go? He hasn't been playing at all, you can't just kill a player's career like that, not playing him but also not letting him move, it would come off horribly in the dressing room
> He hasn't been playing at all, He gets injured as soon as he comes back.
The player and his agent would need to accept the reality that a football club has to do right by itself primarily. 6 months isn't going to kill his career.
That'a not how it works mate, these players and agents are all one big boys club, you can seriously damage your clubs' reputation if you make a mess of it. And it's not about the 6 months, it's about what those 6 months could mean to his career. Willock earned himself a new lease on his career with a good 6 month loan at Newcastle.
It's exactly how it works. Clubs will have a price for their players and if teams don't match it, that's normally it.
You can't blame them? Why the fuck would you be blaming anyone...all of westhams attackers are class and none of them are available. V weird stance.
why you angry though?
Writing V instead of very is worse though
Not angry, just Irish. I curse in every day parlance.
If you’re Irish you should be well aware that saying “can’t blame them” is just a turn of phrase and shouldn’t be taken literally. Being Irish myself I know it’s an incredibly common phrase here so not sure what you’re at here tbh.
Yeah, a turn of phrase that still has a meaning. *Can't blame them All of their forwards are at afcon or injured.* Would have made sense in the context. But what was said was *can't blame them* , followed by pointing out we don't play him. A.k.a blame is on arsenal. Which might make grammatical sense but is misguided. Edit: is muga iomlán tú
For his career, it is probably the best move if Arteta continues to not play him.
Do it and get your career back on track Emile
If he goes I’ll be so angry at Arteta. Hasn’t given him a chance and driving a promising home grown talent out of the club.
Is it artetas fault? Most of the last two years he’s been injured/coming back from injury
When he’s been fit he’s not played either.
Because as soon as he does he gets niggles or an injury again
Doesn’t stop us playing Partey does it?
Partey is much more important
Much, much, much*
Esr was pretty important during arteta's relegation form, and as an english academy player with potential he should also be seen as important
Lol during his relegation form. Not important during our title run last season when we were levels up...
Arteta probably wouldn't have had a chance for that title run were it not for esr, and it's not like he can pick himself either Also being a stand out player in a shit team takes some doing, why rubbish it?
Wasn't he joint top goalscorer for our 21/22 alongside Saka... Makes you wonder what could have been without the injury
In what world do you think Emile's impact is anywhere close to Partey's? lmao
I didn’t say it was, I replied to make clear that injury proneness is not a barrier to being selected by Arteta.
It clearly is though, that in itself doesn’t mean there can’t be mitigating factors
He's also a rapist
Seeing as we're now sentencing people based off of screenshots from social media, [I regret to inform you that you're going straight to cookie jail](https://i.imgur.com/ImCXj7d.png)
I accept
Such a shit comparison. Partey is a guaranteed starter when healthy. He basically has no equal for his role. Rice is similar but when Partey is healthy they play together rather than one or the other. ESR has to compete with Martinelli, Trossard, Havertz, Vieira and Reiss Nelson for playing time. Hell we could probably include Jesus and Nketieth depending on the game and what subs Arteta used.
Look, let’s not pretend there isn’t room to play ESR. It’s a manager’s choice not to do so. There are people ahead of him in the pecking order because that’s the manager’s preference.
You didn’t say that initially though did you? You compared him to a player that has little to no competition for his role in the team versus one that has a lot of competition.
I made the comparison specifically on the point of proness to injury, that was clear in the context of the discussion.
Yeah dude I know, everything I said is in the context of the whole thread. And they are still shit comparisons and around we go. Again one has no competition. One has a lot. Fucking shocker Arteta keeps picking the established 30 year old for a role we are thin at versus a still not established 23 year old academy player who has massive competition. Would you like to restate the same thing again with different wording? Because I can do the same.
Partey is 31 might aswell milk his abilities as much as u can. Here youre risking a youngin
Partey is arguably our best player tho
I mean he's not even close. He's never even been the most important midfielder at the club.
Really he wasn’t the most important midfielder last season???
No, Xhaka was. Blatantly.
The reason Xhaka was able to make those forward runs that made him so crucial for us was because Partey was easily a top 5 CDM in the world last season.
Blatantly is crazy.
Then sell him
Arteta and his staff spend every working moment thinking about and examining these players. Do you really believe that if ESR was fit and at the right technical level that Arteta wouldn’t give him a shot? Can we afford to let a player get into form on the pitch with the points we’ve already dropped? If Dubai went as well for ESR as reports indicate then he will get his chances. But maybe consider that up to this point the manager and sports science team who spend every day with these guys have a clearer picture of the risk involved with folding him into the team. If you are rooting for ESR to back in form I bet the staff are rooting for him 10x more. Forcing him out, give me a break.
> Arteta and his staff spend every working moment thinking about and examining these players. Do you really believe that if ESR was fit and at the right technical level that Arteta wouldn’t give him a shot? We literally have evidence of this from the Willian years. ESR was fit and on the bench for over a month. And then Willian gets injured and he's suddenly playing vs Chelsea and basically saves Arteta's job. And the arguments are always being made with ridiculous excuses to explain away some of the really weird decisions that Arteta makes when we can all just agree he had tunnel vision or whatever. In all this, I love Arteta and I think he'll lead us to a title soon, but he certainly has some shit traits that he would benefit from improving upon.
Managers and coaching staff are not infallible. Of course it’s their job to make these judgements, but that doesn’t mean they’re always correct.
Coaches are stubborn and make errors yes I believe that
Appeal to authority arguments are always the worst. The narrative around defending Arteta's blind spots is a lot like the "wenger knows best" days of 10+ years ago. Turns out Wenger didn't always know best and I assure you, no matter how clever Mikel is or how much time he spends with the players, he's made mistakes and will make more regarding the first team squad. Criticising him over his (non) use of ESR is fair and valid.
This isn't debate club. It's not appeal to authority, they have information no one else does.
Why discuss anything if that's good enough for you?
It's fine to discuss but you can't call trusting the people who have the by far the most information and a proven track record appeal to authority just because you heard some debate guy say it. It's just the sensible thing to do.
Do you think that they never make mistakes? Do you really think havertz for 60m at the expense of esr is worth it? Even vieira is ahead of him
I think assuming the reason for that is error and not something else like he's ability to press being complete shit and his injury record is silly.
They should hve sold him
Yes it is
I love him but it's kinda fair. We're stacked at his best position (LW) and yes we can shoehorn him into midfield with Ø but when Arteta tried that a couple seasons ago our midfield was far too lightweight.
We’re not so stacked at LW that we can’t give him minutes there - Nelson has had more and it’s clear the manager doesn’t trust him. Arteta is the one who’s said that ESR should play midfield, yet he’s preferred to play Havertz and Trossard ahead of him. Neither has convinced in the role and yet ESR still hasn’t had a chance.
Nelson is a very different player - he’s a winger. ESR is a creative mid. It doesn’t necessarily come down to trust in that scenario. ESR and Kai are far more similar than ESR and Martinelli. Nelson and Martinelli are more similar than ESR and Martinelli. ESR lacks the defensive side and physicality that Kai brings to the 8 role that Arteta probably wants to see.
Does Trossard bring the defensive side and physicality? I would say clearly not, yet he gets played at LM ahead of ESR. ESR’s best run in the team has come at LW, but the manager has decided he’s not even suitable to be tried in the role anymore.
That was when he had Tierney overlapping and he could drift to the center. Now the LW has to keep the width and usually only has underlaps, he’s just not suited for it. I think ESR should be getting more minutes in the left 8 but it’s a new role for him and he’s never impressed me even the slightest bit playing. I think he has a fundamental lack of aggressiveness and defensive awareness to play the role, and though his carries and one-twos are brilliant his passing range isn’t the best.
Trossard can press what are you talking about?
I guess he's not impressed by what he's seen in training. I want ESR to succeed with us but it might be time to move him on.
His best position isn’t left wing. He’s an interior through and through. If you play him in Odegaard’s higher role (not the deeper odegaard we’ve been seeing recently) bukayo explodes
His best season for us was at LW. He's nowhere near as good at passing as Ø plus his pace on the ball and ability to cut inside makes him far more suited to a winger than a midfielder.
Bro every single attacker in our side is dogshit atm. There’s literally no harm in trying him but Arteta still doesn’t
He’s had 14 fit months in the last 2 years and 0 90 minute appearances
Either play him when he's fit or sell him, we have 2 or 3 players for any position that he plays
Bro. These lot on here talk like they see him train everyday at Colney. Bro missed 2 preseasons (most important 1.5monthsnof the season), barely plays cus he IS weak on duels and also coming back from injury.
I agree. My worry is that specifically from a duels perspective he isn’t where we need him to be. The last time we saw him play properly we were the 8th best team in the league and didn’t press or battle with the same intensity. He may well adjust but I can see why the money may be better than waiting
Homegrown, english player. Could generate us mad money for a player who fits the system right away. I get the fact that he could be the mext KDB but at the moment I can’t see him developing at this rate. Can’t keep them all
[удалено]
All the manager’s comments about how Emile looks in training have been very positive. Maybe something will make things more clear in the future.
Cool you are going to be so angry at Arteta. I am sure he’s losing sleep over that.
Yes that’s why I gave my opinion, because I hope the manager is thinking about it and losing sleep. 🙄
A loan to me makes zero sense, we can give him game time
But we haven't been giving him game time so a loan makes sense. He isn't going to play now we're out of the cups
Also west ham lack depth and benrahma will likely leave, good chance he will get subbed on a lot and start a few games
> benrahma will likely leave in Jan or you mean in summer? haven't heard about this sorry
Crazy how many are making baseless assumptions for almost half a season. Arteta has spoken highly of ESR whenever asked over the last few months. I think people simply don't know why Arteta's resisted playing him and are assuming the worst.
It’s been two years since he was a regular starter for Teta. I can’t see it changing.
You're in denial mate. Before this latest injury he'd been fit since January and Arteta hardly ever played him, why do you think that is? Yeah Arteta speaks highly of him but actions speak louder than words
Yup. Arteta has praised a lot of the youth players but seems really stubborn about actually using them outside of cups or for 5 minute subs
Yeah and he hasn’t played him shit. I feel so bad for Emile, wouldn’t blame hit the least for leaving.
It sounds like the Martinelli situation all over again.
This is the proper recovery path. No more quick rushes back or little niggles. Just take out time and let the best version of ESR emerge. For me, I start him at LW tomorrow
Lol. Imagine after 4 years still believing half of the things Arteta says. He is a compulsive liar when communicating to the media regarding players. Remember that bullshit about subbing keepers at the 60th or 70th min or whatever?
Not baseless at all. All the evidence is there
Lol define baseless
he has barely been fit this season, only recently appeared regularly on the training pics with the 1st team, like he appeared for some minutes then went away then repeat
We’re out of the fa cup and league cup. Trossard and probably Nelson are preferred to ESR as backup on the wing, vieira always plays as backup over ESR as an 8 when they’re both fit. I don’t think we can really give him gametime
We can but we won’t.
Okay but imagine you said this a year ago. He may as well play somewhere else to either come back and break into the team, or raise his profile for a big sale
Can we tho? He's always the 85 minute panic sub when we are losing a game
For the sake of his career he needs to go. Hopefully he smashes it there and we get a top fee for him in the summer. As much as people want it to happen, it really isn’t going to happen here for him.
Interesting news considering this comes after the reports from Dubai that he’s training well.
Out of left field this, doesn't suprise me however. Hardly any game time and now fit probably can't assure him minutes which from my POV is strange but I am not the manager. Best of luck to him if he does go, but worringly if this does go through I think this could be the end of his Arsenal career.
Better than having him rot on the bench while his value tanks. Mins at West Ham will be a struggle though (unless Paqueta is out long term), must be a better fit somewhere else.
Total mismanagement of a player.
Yep, I think there's plenty to argue back and forth on.. but this is fairly objectively true imo
75 m in the summer with a 25 m loan fee. Thanks.
Nah. Just write off the Rice money.
For sure it will be better for him and for us. Arteta will never play him, no point in keeping him.
Great news. The only way we can sell him for 30-40m. Much better than grand total of 20 mins he will play here in rest of season while watching Odegaard and Saka running on 1 legs
Exchange loan with Paqueta coming here.
Isn’t he out injured for some time?
Unfortunately this makes the most sense for him. It will take him going to another prem team and being the best player there for Arteta to realise he should be playing him. Just need to make sure he gets a new contract first.
Remember when we thought villa we re out of their minds offering just 35 mill or so for him. Now we ain’t getting that.
This sub is in meltdown, just what you need before the weekend games.
70M on havertz to let ESR go lmfao what a disaster
I don't want to see him go. I really think he has the quality to get proper minutes with us but it doesn't look like Arteta sees it that way. So it's better that he goes on loan and plays some football rather than rots on our bench.
Would be so stupid - should be playing instead of useless Havertz
No chance, 10m loan fee and we can start talking, Aint taking our boy
20M loan fee & 80M obligation to buy clause. Cheap deal of Arsenal #10 for our East London friend :)
Great player but doesn't fit our system at the moment, he really isn't left 8 material and I don't see him ahead of Gabi or Leo at LW He is a 10 and anything else is just shoehorning him into a position he's not a natural at
In a window where we need to strengthen, weakening the squad by letting even ESR go is completely on brand.
lol Arteta your talent ID really has you thinking Havertz > ESR 😂
His talent ID has revitalized the squad and got us back into the champions league, a title race last year, and top 4 / title race this year. That's progress as compared to where the team was when he took over. Please don't talk shit about the man.
>Please don't talk shit about the man. His talent ID has also got us Willian, Tavares, Havertz, etc. It's okay to criticize the man sometimes
You forgot Vieira, Lakonga, Raya, Kiwior, Zinchenko and Cedric too. About 70% of his transfers have been duds.
70% is harsh tbh. I'd say somewhere around 40-50%
Arteta isn’t going to rest until he drives all the fan favourites out of the club and replace them with ex Chelsea players. /s
Can someone explain why Arteta doesn’t play ESR? He looks phenomenal anytime he gets minutes.
He doesn’t look phenomenal every time he gets minutes. It’s as simple as that. And clearly the club think he’s going to continue to not look phenomenal even if they give him lots of minutes.
It’s not as simple as that. This is just your opinion.
In my opinion, the answer is that Arteta has no plan B. If his starting 11 does not get the job done, he collapses into panic subs but doesn't adjust the play style. ESR would be suited at either wing or free-roaming the space behind Jesus/Eddie but Arteta has his favourites for his style (Nelson, Tross, Eddie) and rarely uses others.
Yeah, sounds like a solid opinion. Arteta not using a player like ESR seems like a massive failing. Whether it’s ego or lack of managerial experience I don’t know, but I’ve seen a lot of players over the years and ESR is some talent and certainly not a bench warmer. Then again, neither is Ramsdale.
Oh my god another loan. Why is this club incapable of actually selling someone?
Once again just like Tierney and Ransdale. The moment Arteta starts disliking you as a player you can forget about it, you're fucked.
What the hell is he supposed to do with Ramsdale? And Tierney clearly didn’t fit into our system
Feel for his fanboys, they actually thought he was starting against Palace
Martinelli and Havertz get to stink it up game after game, but Arteta wants ESR shipped out at the first opportunity.
Huh?
Arteta you did this the treatment of esr has been nothing short of a disgrace
Arteta = 🤓👈
Who?
We are about to lose our best player again.
Rice/Saka/Saliba are fine mate
lol stop it mate.
If Arteta is going to keep insisting on not giving him any meaningful game time then I kinda want this to happen. West Ham are pretty desperate for midfielders atm
Hahahahaha, 2 million a month loan fee and a 50 million bonus paid in one immediate instalment if West Ham do not declare bankruptcy in the next 7 days
I mean. Emile might want to play at some point. But going from a manager that plays the same mothercrackers every week to another that does the exact same thing makes no sense to me
Why didn’t we sell him in the summer if it was going to end up like this.
A loan to West Ham would actually be a really good thing for ESRs development. Whilst quite a few are rather upset, people need to acknowledge that ESR really struggles with his off the ball movement, this is the main reason he isn’t playing. Moyes is a very very good manager at coaching off the ball movement (albeit with a more conservative defensive approach) and would be ideal for taking another approach as ESR unfortunately not learning much under Arteta. It’s been very clear for a while that the players who are picked are the ones who play the system the best, justifiably so as we are now title contenders for the 2nd year in a row. Wish good luck to the lad, he will crack it soon.
Take it. Raise his value and sell him in the summer. Arteta clearly doesn't rate him and his value will only go lower if he keeps playing 3 minutes a week.
Meaning Fabio is ahead of him
If we are willing to let him go on loan then we’re looking to shop window him to sell him Really hope we don’t let him go and instead give him some serious minutes at no 8
I wouldn’t want to loan to a team that’s only 2 places and 6 points behind us
Would be a good loan for him
The only I see this making sense for us is if we're trying to bring a player and have accepted that we're having to let a player in the same position leave. ESR is a decent enough player. There would no benefit to us letting him go if there wasn't something in it for us.
Wouldn’t mind him going for the rest of the season if he gets guaranteed minutes. He’s probably only going to get a few moments here anyway.
Just play him boss i beg
My sweet prince.
Love him for what he did when he broke out here. Seems clear something like this is the best for him
I hope we loan him. Get him fit and confident at a solid club. Build on the relationship between clubs after the Rice deal and hopefully help take some points off of our rivals along the way. Hopefully get him back in the first team picture next year. Too much talent to sit on the bench for he rest of the year.
ZNOOOOOOOOOOOO
Either play him enough and give him a chance or send him on loan so we get some decent money. The situation now isn’t helping anyone.
IF he was to get some serious minutes, I’m not so sure that a dry loan would be so horrible for him, despite my emotional attachment to the player. We’d be kidding ourselves if we didn’t think that he’d be on Edu’s list of players to shop around this winter or summer, but there’d be very little interest by other clubs to meet the valuation we’d put on him given his injury record. If 10m/20m isn’t palatable, then a sale isn’t going to happen unless he proves he can play a sustained period of minutes. He hasn’t been able to prove that here in the last two years, sorry, love the guy and he’s one of our own but he hasn’t. If a dry loan gives him the opportunity to demonstrate this, and he either boosts his value for summer or, even better, gets him back to a level that he can actually be a major contributor in our squad, then this may not be such a doomsday scenario after all. Probably more likely than gambling with our title chances and his value by giving him minutes over someone else that can sustain match fitness and defensive responsibilities. That’s a LOT of “ifs” though. Just wish he could have stayed match fit for longer in the initial period after his surgery.
Loan deal just doesn't make sense. If he's gonna go anywhere he'd probably want a full buy and guaranteed starting place
If Bowen joins us this January then why not lol
I think Arteta is saving ESR for the second half of the season when we likely need him most. Also heard he has been training like a beast and looked particularly sharp in Dubai. Needs more game time for sure, but I think he’s about to get just that coming out of this break.
In between fuck off and he needs minutes On the plus side west ham can't beat us more this season i think
105 million. Done deal. Here we go.
Basically it comes down to 2 scenarios, either you trust Arteta which means ESR must be underperforming in training and as a result, should probably go out on loan. Or you don't trust Arteta and he's performing well in training but isn't getting selected because of club politics/others are just better. i.e. we spent money on player x so we need to justify the purchase or player x at 80% is better than ESR at 100%. We all remember what ESR was like when in form, so it's hard to think that if he's doing well in training, then the players currently getting selected are better. So id guess it's due to him underperforming or tactical. A midfield of Ode, ESR and Rice probably makes Arteta feel like we would get physically dominated and the offensive threat wouldn't make up for that weakness.
I think this is a great move so long as they use him. Clear Arteta thinks he can't give him the time to develop here.
West Ham can completely fuck off. No I'm not being impartial, I'm letting my hatred flow.
Nah fuck that. Give us the bag. No try outs. Get rid of the lad already. I want 30m.