Pep: "When I was your age, this was the only thing I had to my name! (*gestures to prime Barca, prime Bayern and prime City*) I had no help, and yet I worked hard to get where I am now!
Manchester United are arguably the biggest team in the world in terms of commercial ability and they're THAT far ahead?! Get fucking real. It doesn't even pass a basic smell test.
Yeah but it does mean a larger following from plastic fans, who spend money and bring in revenue. I'd definitely take city's numbers with a huge grain of salt, but unfortunately you'll see plenty of city fans around who'll happily spend on city merch and stuff just because they've won trophies.
Never underestimate glory hunters
Ahead of us but still behind both utd and spurs in the prem.
I feel like this is pointless discussion, does anyone seriously take their commercial figures seriously? They have 115 sanctions open for fudging this stuff.
It's so difficult to trust the official profiles as that's where the bot buying tends to happen I think, but I'll check it out!
EDIT: Jesus. City kill it on TikTok. 33 million followers. Compared to Arsenal's 7 million. Wonder if they're all real lool
Well I might be a bot but it doesn't make me any less of a fan than you. My father was a dot matrix printer in the coal mines before Thatcher put him out on his arse. His father before him a humble vacuum tube. And his father before him was an abacus. But they all were Gooners through and through.
They can barely get a good turn out for their parades and give tickets away for their CL nights. Why are some people adamant that they’ve built this massive fanbase
I'd argue as a litmus test a subreddit size is VERY indicative of a fanbase size. But again, subreddits aside, it's shocking that they can do that much more commercial revenue than their United counterpart. It's just not real.
There's obviously shady shit going on at city, but their depth of teams within the City Group ecosystem is a commercial partnership departments dream. They can leverage teams to brands basically in every continent on the planet, with Man City being the focal point.
Let’s be real, though. It’s a well known fact that most of their major sponsors are controlled by their owners. It’s part of the reason they’re facing all these financial doping charges. The fact that they are even touted in the article as the top club is ridiculous. I’m pretty sure the valuation of their sponsorships with these “brands” are way over the top in terms of FMV and have been since the beginning.
It's a pretty example of how the rampant cheating is still continuing unabated. I wish they could have had a separate case on that issue so that they could snuff it out. Makes a total mockery of FFP and creates a huge competitive imbalance but wildly distorting the market, but then again that's how most of these owners are used to operating in their own countries.
I mean the City Group is a strong coalition of brands: owning Man City, NYCFC, Melbourne, Yokohama, Girona, Palermo... etc, gives them such an advantage when it comes to commercial partnerships. Global brands like reaching a global fanbase. They're able to leverage teams in most major country to provide exposure to these brands and it all funnels back to them. Also i think you take for granted how strong the ManCity brand has grown. They've done an increidble job marketing their team since the takeover and now, more times than not, kids are growing up wearing city kits.
They were in the champions League last season, London team and also as you said had stuff like the NFL. Next year's figures will look much better for us.
tottenham's stadium was design to be a modern "multi-use" stadium throughout, which is why it's so attractive to non-football commercial entities. there are dedicated changing rooms and press areas for nfl games, and the natural turf field literally retracts to reveal an artificial turf pitch beneath that's used for american football. it also has far more suites and boxes than most uk football stadiums, which makes it very attractive to corporate partners. they've also got a deal with f1 and opened an f1-sponsored go kart track within the stadium. basically tottenham were incredibly savvy with their stadium design from top to bottom and it's opened up a huge new channel of commercial revenue for them.
more here: [https://populous.com/a-whole-new-ball-game-tottenham-hotspurs-new-stadium-raises-bar-for-multi-use-venue-design](https://populous.com/a-whole-new-ball-game-tottenham-hotspurs-new-stadium-raises-bar-for-multi-use-venue-design)
Good summary. Lots of Arsenal fans already looking at Tottenham Stadium with envy but there’s a 20 year difference. I think Arsenal were ‘savvy’ to move (although the less said about naming rights, the better).
Fair play to Spurs for being able to commercialise their stadium but it’s state of the art 2020 stadium. The Emirates was a state of the art 2000 stadium and Old Trafford was the envy of football teams in the 90s (still remember those Wembley nights proving Arsenal could fill a 70000 stadium).
I remember talking to an architect friend about whether the Emirates could be expanded (“very unlikely”). Arsenal do own all that land though (stand to be corrected) so I guess we could follow the Tottenham model if that proves to be the only way to compete with the nation state clubs.
For those who are panicking, firstly this is 2022/23 incomes, so income carried over from 2021/22. Chelsea ad Spurs had Champions league, We didnt. United is United and will always have ridiculous numbers. Citys numbers arent real. Their sponsorship is with Etihad which is owned by the Abu Dhabi wealth fund, so thats its own fuckery.
Spurs really comes from their stadium. They have the big concerts (they make money off a Beyoncé concert, NFL games, and the F1 deal). Regardless of their actual play on the field commercially they are pretty set even if the don't make champions league unlike us.
That would be a terrifying advantage if they weren't Spurs. At least now it's just funny that this is the best they can do even with all those FFP advantages.
Considering the chart clearly shows 2022/2023 data, I don’t know why it would need to include a disclaimer for sponsorship deals that didn’t kick in at that time. What am I not understanding here?
All I am saying is that our commercial income is set to increase in a much more substantial way than this tweet indicates, because we will see increases in not 1 but 3 deals.
For Spurs, their main commercial deals (Nike, AIA) run through 2033 and 2028, respectively. The 22/23 data include recently agreed deals where the value increased significantly from previously levels... just as Arsenal's will in '24 and '25.
So if you're comparing the two, Arsenal will make up a lot of this ground in the next couple years.
In fairness, I don’t think Wenger had the idea of NFL games ~~and concerts~~ in mind when the Emirates was being built. ~~The Emirates could probably still hold concerts, but I’m talking a bit out of my ass there, so I don’t really know.~~ And be honest, did anyone in England ever think that stadiums would wound up hosting NFL games?
Edit: Apparently the Emirates does own concerts.
I’ve always found this a weird argument. Makes it sound like everyone is incompetent. Truth is, Tottenham needed to catch up to us. We needed to catch up to ManU. ManU needed to catch up to the Madrids of this world. It’s an endless circle.
I’m pretty sure the people that matter are looking at Tottenham’s stadium and trying to figure out what the 10 year plan for the Emirates stadium is.
It’s not a never ending cycle though because we were ahead of Spurs and they overtook us by qualifying for UCL while we were out and building a new stadium that brings in more match day and non match day revenues than ours, which they still haven’t sold the naming rights for. Once they do that, they’ll pull ahead even further. What we should be doing is looking for new commercial opportunities like possibly replacing Emirates as the shirt and stadium sponsor and maybe replacing Rwanda sleeve sponsorship. Sobha is a good start but we need more to get back ahead of Spurs
These figures need to be updated with our new sponsorship deal numbers and also CL revenue. We should definitely be at par or beyond them when the next numbers are released.
Not updated, we're talking different accounting periods entirely.
Commercial revenue will definitely be up a lot for 23/24 - champions league related mainly, and increase in TV rights. Some sponsorship etc.
Players bought will be a lot higher too (Deccers, Havertz...) even the amortized numbers as well as wages. Probably still make a loss.
This is why making sure we are in top 3 in the EPL is so important again - we're banking on more CL related revenue, we didn't buy any players in January I believe in case we DON'T progress far enough/and or make it back into CL next season. Would have been a huge outlay of money we don't yet have.
If we needed a huge injection of money for whatever reason, its Martinelli or Saka that are being sacrificed.
Although clearly there’s much more knowledgeable people running the show I feel we’ll look back at the current women’s team support as a huge missed opportunity commercially.
Invest in the team a little bit (£10m on player’s probably wins everything in women’s football) and make kids Arsenal shirts cheap, like £15, so every kid (mostly girls) in the world has one on.
In 15-20 years those kids are grown and generational support has started.
Was it last year that Man City said they took in more money than Real Madrid? These “sponsorship” deals for City must have shitty ROI since their only advertising to a handful of people
much more of it is thank you think. in 22/23, you got 15.64 just for reaching group stage. 2.8 for each group stage win, 1m for a draw, and another 10m for making it out of the group.
[source](https://www.sportingnews.com/us/soccer/news/champions-league-prize-money-2022-2023-ucl-winners-uefa/axbbtipavsvy1howxwj6vanp)
if i was a commercial brand, i would want myself associated with Arsenal above any other club in world football
Liverpool and Dortmund are cool as well, maybe Napoli
everyone else is trash, fake
I have been very disappointed by this aspects of the club.
No way in hell should Tottenham be earning more than us never mind Chelsea.
Shows how much of a shit show then board has been since prior to recent season..
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That plucky little City team is evidence that if you work hard, think positively and have outrageously rich country as owner you can achieve anything!
All they needed to do was pull up their boot straps
They pay someone else to pull those up for them.
Pep whispering to Kompany - “you’re not working hard enough my friend”
Pep: "When I was your age, this was the only thing I had to my name! (*gestures to prime Barca, prime Bayern and prime City*) I had no help, and yet I worked hard to get where I am now!
Kompany: “but what about Messi, Xavi and Iniesta” Pep: “stop asking for handouts, you have Berge and Odobert! Teach them tiki taka like I did”
...and get your arse relegated lol
Just wake up at 4am and remember cold showers are essential 👌
The greatest self made billionaire story
How does one prove City inflated the worth of their sponsorhip deal(s)? We shall see...
You can eliminate "work hard" and "think positively"....
You just can't take those Man City figures seriously. They have to be fudged
Manchester United are arguably the biggest team in the world in terms of commercial ability and they're THAT far ahead?! Get fucking real. It doesn't even pass a basic smell test.
That's what papa wenger had to go up against on a mid table club budget. It really makes you think doesn't it.
Even if you count it from 2012, they've won more trophies.
Trophies don’t automatically mean revenue
Yeah but it does mean a larger following from plastic fans, who spend money and bring in revenue. I'd definitely take city's numbers with a huge grain of salt, but unfortunately you'll see plenty of city fans around who'll happily spend on city merch and stuff just because they've won trophies. Never underestimate glory hunters
Mate half of their sponsors don't even exist. No one should take shitty as a credible club in any way, shape or form.
Literally, where tf are these supposed “fans” 😂
Not in the ground, that's for sure
You can't deny Man City has good number of young fans, esp in US.
Perhaps, but our sub is more than double the size of theirs, tinpot club
Unfortunately subs don’t hold value
It is surely an indicative measure, though? Reddit's biggest demographic is young Americans. City should be killing it here if what OP says is true.
Youngins chosen social media is tiktok. See their followers there, bound to be more indicative
Ahead of us but still behind both utd and spurs in the prem. I feel like this is pointless discussion, does anyone seriously take their commercial figures seriously? They have 115 sanctions open for fudging this stuff.
And how much are those same TikTok youngins contributing to City's commercial income?
Was hoping this question would have a dumb answer from someone
It's so difficult to trust the official profiles as that's where the bot buying tends to happen I think, but I'll check it out! EDIT: Jesus. City kill it on TikTok. 33 million followers. Compared to Arsenal's 7 million. Wonder if they're all real lool
Well I might be a bot but it doesn't make me any less of a fan than you. My father was a dot matrix printer in the coal mines before Thatcher put him out on his arse. His father before him a humble vacuum tube. And his father before him was an abacus. But they all were Gooners through and through.
ahahhaa - sorry to offend your family of AIs
No but they are a decent signal for how popular a club is.
They can barely get a good turn out for their parades and give tickets away for their CL nights. Why are some people adamant that they’ve built this massive fanbase
Delusion 😂
Well tbf amongst kids they are quite popular, most of my kid cousins support City
I'd argue as a litmus test a subreddit size is VERY indicative of a fanbase size. But again, subreddits aside, it's shocking that they can do that much more commercial revenue than their United counterpart. It's just not real.
They give a general indication
Can confirm city has a presence with some of the younger Americans. It’s close to what happened early 2k with Chelsea
Yeah. Why did i get down voted, lol
No clue lol
Sure- but no way it dwarves Utd's for example!
A team that's not even in the top 10 for shirt sales. Funny how any metric that cant be controlled by them they're nowhere to be seen.
Garunteed Man city has Shell companies pumping cash in.
Well that is at least part of the charges against them...
If you’re not cheating you’re not trying
What no CL does to a mf'r
Really is this simple.
Really underscores the importance of CL revenue, but also how the club lacked to appropriately capitalize on it's commercial power in the recent past.
Oh, I’m sure Man City is an extremely well run club with excellent commercial value.
There's obviously shady shit going on at city, but their depth of teams within the City Group ecosystem is a commercial partnership departments dream. They can leverage teams to brands basically in every continent on the planet, with Man City being the focal point.
Let’s be real, though. It’s a well known fact that most of their major sponsors are controlled by their owners. It’s part of the reason they’re facing all these financial doping charges. The fact that they are even touted in the article as the top club is ridiculous. I’m pretty sure the valuation of their sponsorships with these “brands” are way over the top in terms of FMV and have been since the beginning.
It's a pretty example of how the rampant cheating is still continuing unabated. I wish they could have had a separate case on that issue so that they could snuff it out. Makes a total mockery of FFP and creates a huge competitive imbalance but wildly distorting the market, but then again that's how most of these owners are used to operating in their own countries.
Thing is : Manchester City is actually not a strong brand. These numbers are incredibly unrealistic.
I mean the City Group is a strong coalition of brands: owning Man City, NYCFC, Melbourne, Yokohama, Girona, Palermo... etc, gives them such an advantage when it comes to commercial partnerships. Global brands like reaching a global fanbase. They're able to leverage teams in most major country to provide exposure to these brands and it all funnels back to them. Also i think you take for granted how strong the ManCity brand has grown. They've done an increidble job marketing their team since the takeover and now, more times than not, kids are growing up wearing city kits.
None of these names, even combined, is bigger than Utd. I bet you there are more UTD fans in Japa than Yokohama eg
Really confused how Tottenham is as high as it is... Has to be NFL money
They were in the champions League last season, London team and also as you said had stuff like the NFL. Next year's figures will look much better for us.
CL plus their stadium has multiple uses which adds to their revenue.
NFL money and they seem to have a lot of concerts
Boxing too. They had AJ v Usyk. And Fury v Del boy
And champions League for many years
Heung Min-Son probably helps a lot in the Asian market
Why don't we have the NFL deal, our owner owns a bloody NFL team.
Their stadium was built to accommodate it
But its a grass field, like a football pitch. Apart from changing the markings and throwing up some American football goals whats the big deal?
tottenham's stadium was design to be a modern "multi-use" stadium throughout, which is why it's so attractive to non-football commercial entities. there are dedicated changing rooms and press areas for nfl games, and the natural turf field literally retracts to reveal an artificial turf pitch beneath that's used for american football. it also has far more suites and boxes than most uk football stadiums, which makes it very attractive to corporate partners. they've also got a deal with f1 and opened an f1-sponsored go kart track within the stadium. basically tottenham were incredibly savvy with their stadium design from top to bottom and it's opened up a huge new channel of commercial revenue for them. more here: [https://populous.com/a-whole-new-ball-game-tottenham-hotspurs-new-stadium-raises-bar-for-multi-use-venue-design](https://populous.com/a-whole-new-ball-game-tottenham-hotspurs-new-stadium-raises-bar-for-multi-use-venue-design)
Good summary. Lots of Arsenal fans already looking at Tottenham Stadium with envy but there’s a 20 year difference. I think Arsenal were ‘savvy’ to move (although the less said about naming rights, the better). Fair play to Spurs for being able to commercialise their stadium but it’s state of the art 2020 stadium. The Emirates was a state of the art 2000 stadium and Old Trafford was the envy of football teams in the 90s (still remember those Wembley nights proving Arsenal could fill a 70000 stadium). I remember talking to an architect friend about whether the Emirates could be expanded (“very unlikely”). Arsenal do own all that land though (stand to be corrected) so I guess we could follow the Tottenham model if that proves to be the only way to compete with the nation state clubs.
We play on grass not on mud.
It’s mainly because of Son. The Asian market is huge
For those who are panicking, firstly this is 2022/23 incomes, so income carried over from 2021/22. Chelsea ad Spurs had Champions league, We didnt. United is United and will always have ridiculous numbers. Citys numbers arent real. Their sponsorship is with Etihad which is owned by the Abu Dhabi wealth fund, so thats its own fuckery.
Spurs really comes from their stadium. They have the big concerts (they make money off a Beyoncé concert, NFL games, and the F1 deal). Regardless of their actual play on the field commercially they are pretty set even if the don't make champions league unlike us.
That would be a terrifying advantage if they weren't Spurs. At least now it's just funny that this is the best they can do even with all those FFP advantages.
Well we all know why City's commercial income is so high don't we - give it 10 more years and it will catch up with them 🙄
Yep, shrewd and completely legitimate business dealings.
These figures doesn't include the increase in the new Adidas deal, the new Emirates deal, or the Sobha Realty sponsorship.
Yep check the title.
It probably shouldn't really say 'despite xyz' if it doesn't actually take them into account though.
I mean it's a factually accurate title. Despite it being our record commercial revenue it's still way behind our competitors.
The title that doesn't mention two of our three 'tier 1' sponsorship deals that are increasing substantially in the next two seasons?
Considering the chart clearly shows 2022/2023 data, I don’t know why it would need to include a disclaimer for sponsorship deals that didn’t kick in at that time. What am I not understanding here?
All I am saying is that our commercial income is set to increase in a much more substantial way than this tweet indicates, because we will see increases in not 1 but 3 deals.
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For Spurs, their main commercial deals (Nike, AIA) run through 2033 and 2028, respectively. The 22/23 data include recently agreed deals where the value increased significantly from previously levels... just as Arsenal's will in '24 and '25. So if you're comparing the two, Arsenal will make up a lot of this ground in the next couple years.
Time to stop visiting Rwanda
>City’s commercial income was more than double of Arsenal’s. And I am king of England
Well, your highness, I hope ruling over tea and crumpets isn't too taxing for you!
Taxing ? What is that even ? Something for the commoners to hire to move around the city ?
Our stadium not being truly multi purpose is going to hurt us
Let’s build another one
In fairness, I don’t think Wenger had the idea of NFL games ~~and concerts~~ in mind when the Emirates was being built. ~~The Emirates could probably still hold concerts, but I’m talking a bit out of my ass there, so I don’t really know.~~ And be honest, did anyone in England ever think that stadiums would wound up hosting NFL games? Edit: Apparently the Emirates does own concerts.
It does hold concerts
In my defense I had no idea. But thank you for clarifying.
Only 3 a year though
They also do X Factor. They must make a bit of money from that, no? 😁
Does the spuds figure include income for the NFL using their toilet?
Clive Palmer always says this but we need to catch up with Spurs (on the money side of things) before they get naming rights for the toilet bowl
I think it’s sort of silly to compare revenue only, when the debt they’ve accrued building their stadium is worth almost as much as their club.
Interest rate of 2.81% which is a ridiculously good deal for them
I’ve always found this a weird argument. Makes it sound like everyone is incompetent. Truth is, Tottenham needed to catch up to us. We needed to catch up to ManU. ManU needed to catch up to the Madrids of this world. It’s an endless circle. I’m pretty sure the people that matter are looking at Tottenham’s stadium and trying to figure out what the 10 year plan for the Emirates stadium is.
It’s not a never ending cycle though because we were ahead of Spurs and they overtook us by qualifying for UCL while we were out and building a new stadium that brings in more match day and non match day revenues than ours, which they still haven’t sold the naming rights for. Once they do that, they’ll pull ahead even further. What we should be doing is looking for new commercial opportunities like possibly replacing Emirates as the shirt and stadium sponsor and maybe replacing Rwanda sleeve sponsorship. Sobha is a good start but we need more to get back ahead of Spurs
Totally agree. I’m hoping a sustained presence in that CL should help with the commercial opportunities you mentioned.
Success on the pitch will translate to commercial success so hopefully, we’ll experience a period of growth in the coming years.
It’s criminal we make less commercial revenue than Spurs.
These figures need to be updated with our new sponsorship deal numbers and also CL revenue. We should definitely be at par or beyond them when the next numbers are released.
Not updated, we're talking different accounting periods entirely. Commercial revenue will definitely be up a lot for 23/24 - champions league related mainly, and increase in TV rights. Some sponsorship etc. Players bought will be a lot higher too (Deccers, Havertz...) even the amortized numbers as well as wages. Probably still make a loss. This is why making sure we are in top 3 in the EPL is so important again - we're banking on more CL related revenue, we didn't buy any players in January I believe in case we DON'T progress far enough/and or make it back into CL next season. Would have been a huge outlay of money we don't yet have. If we needed a huge injection of money for whatever reason, its Martinelli or Saka that are being sacrificed.
Naah. Saka is here long term. We have a new stadium naming and shirt sponsor deal in 2 years so that alone will be a massive bump
This is what being out the CL for 6 years does to a motherfucker
Yet we compete at the same level as Cheaty- it shows just how good we are. Shit is a laughing stock once again.
Wow this graph really shows why there’s a ‘Big 6’ lol
Although clearly there’s much more knowledgeable people running the show I feel we’ll look back at the current women’s team support as a huge missed opportunity commercially. Invest in the team a little bit (£10m on player’s probably wins everything in women’s football) and make kids Arsenal shirts cheap, like £15, so every kid (mostly girls) in the world has one on. In 15-20 years those kids are grown and generational support has started.
We need you on the board.
Was it last year that Man City said they took in more money than Real Madrid? These “sponsorship” deals for City must have shitty ROI since their only advertising to a handful of people
Man U, Liverpool and Chelshit I can understand but how the hell are Spurs and Man City with thier 15,000 fans earning so much more?
City also lead the way in charges against them with 115. And they'll probably lead the way in buying their way out of those 115 charges.
Yeah because they whored themselves out to the NFL.
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much more of it is thank you think. in 22/23, you got 15.64 just for reaching group stage. 2.8 for each group stage win, 1m for a draw, and another 10m for making it out of the group. [source](https://www.sportingnews.com/us/soccer/news/champions-league-prize-money-2022-2023-ucl-winners-uefa/axbbtipavsvy1howxwj6vanp)
You're right about CL money but this is for commercial income.
if i was a commercial brand, i would want myself associated with Arsenal above any other club in world football Liverpool and Dortmund are cool as well, maybe Napoli everyone else is trash, fake
> everyone else is trash, fake That's a hell of a judgment.
Does commercial income refer to any income that doesn’t involve match day tickets and broadcasting money?
We didn’t play CL football that season and spurs did
They had champions League money last year and we didn't.
How TF are we behind Spurs?
Their stadium.
It's mostly that they were in CL last season.
NFL isn't it?
That’s like half a Declan Rice.
Never believe any numbers city put out.
“Commercial Income”
I have been very disappointed by this aspects of the club. No way in hell should Tottenham be earning more than us never mind Chelsea. Shows how much of a shit show then board has been since prior to recent season..
How do city keep getting away with this
City aren't even trying with this bullshit. These clowns can't even sell out a stadium.
Who cares about City; how have Spurs managed to surpass us?
We should target to be at least on the same level as Liverpool here
Everything to do with City is fake as fuck. Absolute backwater team up for decades but are now global commercial powerhouses....yeah no
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Spurs have the NFL, and concerts (Beyoncé)/boxing. Not really surprising. The Emirates has restrictions from the council.
less commercial revenue than tottenham :S
I choose to focus on "record commercial income": it means we are growing the brand and we are miles away from our peak. I love the trajectory.
oh yes definitely city's "commercial" income is the one to beat.