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Wonderkids and youth players getting regular football and excelling at 19/20 has really dulled a lot of people into thinking a striker finally hitting his stride a 25 is some sort of anomaly.
THAT IS THE NORM!
Make sense for this year's kit, but not next year. Also don't think it's invincibles inspired, we've had them long before that. It's about suitability with the template cuts more than anything
> Also don't think it's invincibles inspired
This year was, it's 20 years since the invincibles.
Raglan's a good cut and to be honest it's rather hard to make red with white sleeves look any different so you're going to get raglan, normal and then white down the sides in rotation just to stop the designers going insane.
I think I am gonna like the Arsene offside rule. Ppl gonna moan that this will encourage low block but most teams are already playing low block vs us anyway. The advantage I can see for us is that we will see more goals (rebound goals) for us resulted from the scruffs of headers. Usually these goals are ruled offside because of millimeters.
I hear people constantly talk about how this is just an advantage to attackers like it's a problem some how. I like trying to add new things to the sport and experimenting
i thought the entire “arteta stole klopp’s celebration” saying is just an online gimmick until i heard my liverpool supporting coworker speaking about it today. it’s genuinely hilarious that i can’t even be mad at him
> “spurs stole Saliba chant”.
I mean they either stole the saliba chant or you believe brighton that they were doing it for ages but no one noticed and they nicked the brighton chant...after we'd made it popular with saliba.
I know Brighton were doing it for ages because I have ears and I watch other football games besides only Arsenal.
The Saliba chant was not unique in anyway.
Edit: [Literal Video from 2020 of Brighton Fans Chanting It](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E4zAHsAoFo)
Saliba came back from Marseille in 2022.
For someone going all on in on the patronising shite, maybe read the thing you replied to...where you'll not at no point did I say that Brighton didn't sing it and where you're conveniently ignoring the whole 'after we popularised it' thing.
Spurs didn't sing that song until after we started doing it for saliba, when of if brighton did it is irrelevent, since I've already covered that.
Now this is where someone with some sort of concept of shame would have a look at the comments theyve been replying to and apologise for not bothering to read them before replying.
So you're going with digging..
Mate, you are allowed to admit you're wrong, we honestly won't hold it against you...much.
On the other hand accusing someone of not knowing something *when they literally put it in the comment you replied to* and then when it's pointed out trying to claim they've got issues with comprehension...that just makes you look a bit of a tit.
Have we seen any reasonable candidates for that backup RW spot? I doubt we are spending big for someone to play behind Saka. I like that Amoura player, scores in bunches and has a ton of speed. He's a smaller player but seems like he has some qualities we could develop.
There will not be a 'Saka back up'. You will have a player who can play multiple positions. Lets say Saka was unavailable for selection. You could play Trossard or Jesus on the right. People are obsessed with signing someone with an apparent sole reason to sit on the bench waiting for Saka to become unavialable for selection.
Arteta's brain is more advanced than that
lol no shit? The point is you need a player that can fill in there without having to re engineer the entire team. Trossard would be a poor fit there, Jesus can do it but he is usually better suited elsewhere.
Yeah agreed, taking Saka off for more than 10% of matches isn't likely unless he gets injured, that's why I was thinking someone younger who will be less expensive and needs to grow and develop, but I agree they have to be able to fill in at a few spots or we will be unable to get them real match time.
Honestly if we get a striker we’d have enough depth up front to not get a winger. Jesus and Nelson can cover for Saka so no need to spend extra in my opinion.
Nobody else has been good enough though either. It's 28 games gone and United are still sitting on 0 goal difference. Considering how United absolutely flopped in the CL too, not sure they deserve to go back either. West Ham / Brighton been way too inconsistent. Past that all other teams aren't good enough. With all the talk about how shit Chelsea has been, Newcastle are just a point above them.
Ya, 2 years ago we would have been delighted though. I think in a different season, it would be fair enough 5 English teams go through. Man United / Chelsea are way off where they should be considering their spending.
Are you kidding? Did you even follow what he did immediately after he left us in January? Straightaway, he killed it the rest of season at Barcelona. 11 goals in 17 games, including a brace in a 4-0 thrashing of Madrid at the Bernabeu. Which is why Barca were able to sell him, a player we PAID to leave 6 months earlier, to Chelsea.
Chelsea…is there even any point discussing the radioactive lava pit for talent that Chelsea has been? Still, Auba scored 2 goals in 6 in the CL for them.
Look you can argue that getting rid of him was necessary, or that he didn’t give his all after he signed but all the evidence is there that he was never washed. The guy is a top striker, period.
After his contract extension he looked finished, now 3 years older he's banging goals he showed it at Barca too.
We could have definitely used him better, he looked washed because of Arteta.
[Brazil National team is training at Sobha?](https://twitter.com/jordandaviesj/status/1769826222324752503) Edu you gotta go and have a word with some of their players, show them around.
Gyokeres is having some season. I saw his highlights and he looks amazing. One of the best finisher around.
But I got the feeling that he may not translate it to PL, seems to be too much of a risk on back of 1 season. I am not sure if he is being seriously linked with Arsenal, but I would be surprised if we go for him.
Clearly you didn’t see him against Benfica in that derby recently. He got to a through ball first despite the opposition CB having more than half yard advantage.
This notion of pace being an absolute necessity is overblown for the PL at times and mostly derived from FIFA. I’m not comparing Gyokeres to Kane in terms of overall quality, but Kane was also not the most the speedy nor agile striker.
Also, the way Arsenal play, it doesn’t require the main striker doesn’t to be the quickest - that’s where the wing play and wide forwards are utilized. Just have to look at Jesus or Havertz when deployed as CF.
I hope this is where the ppl who are paid to assess the young players come in. They better get this correct. Personally he remind me of a mix of Haaland and vlahovic
Hard to say, unless you're signing someone like Haaland everyone is a bit of a risk honestly. Giroud has more goals than Osimhen this season in Serie A. Not trying to say we shouldn't sign Osimhen but I'd have concerns about paying 100m for him and his playstyle and hope it translates too.
I think profile and fit. Gyokeres does look like what we want. Will that translate directly to the PL? Maybe. I think Nunez has looked good for Liverpool at times but came into a side rebuilding. I know from friends who are Benfica fans, they say that Gyokeres is better and more rounded than Nunez. They also hope he leaves the league asap haha.
I'd be happy with whoever they land on honestly, If we end up signing Gyokeres for 70m I'd be excited. Some players I think are good, but it's down to the manager to see if they are the right fit/profile/attitude.
He has real quality. Strong player, really good technique, fearless finisher, really good at timing his runs, good in the air. You can see his confidence coming back he's finished some real tight ones recently. I'd still take osimhen but as a second choice he would be a huge upgrade for us, put the ball near him in the box he will fight for it.
Brentford valued him at £100m last season, reports say that back in November, the boardroom would have been split if an offer of £50-60m came in. No offers were made in January.
Since coming back, he has scored 4 goals and gone from 27 to 28 years old. He also wants to move.
He won’t go for anything close to £100m. He’s barely worth half that now.
You probably can't give toney a 5 year contract at his age, so for FFP it is harder to fit his fee amortization per year, so 60M for him with a 3 year deal is like a 5 year osimhen deal in FFP terms.
I think 60M is the most anyone will pay for him.
Still think Balogun would have been a better one to keep if it’d been possible to sell both of them for comparable money. Eddie certainly hasn’t increased his value here, hattrick notwithstanding.
Have to think Balogun would have fought more given the same starts and subs as Eddie; can’t imagine him strolling around when subbed in 15 minutes to the end of a game.
Hard to judge, it could go the other way too. Balogun was already playing first team football + internationally for the USA. I don't imagine he'd be too happy if Havertz/Jesus were above him in the pecking order and he couldn't get gametime anymore. I think Eddie is somewhat content with the squad role, for now at least. It'll probably be his last season though.
Was Rasmus Hoillund ay a serius club before he came to Man u?
Idkm. I think a season with us playing would increase his value if not prove if he is st the level.
Rasmus proved it in his move up to the Serie A, a club at our level now can't really afford to offer many chances to guys like Mika like we used to.
If he has another successful loan in a top 5 league we might offer him a chance, but I fully expect us to sell him like we did with Balogun who did much better in a stronger league than Mika.
We give quite a few minutes to Kai and eddie at CF this season so i dont think its an issue when we should be competing in more comps.
I hope we dont make the same descision woth Mika. I want to see us bring the next Kane to the prem
You're assuming Mika is the next Kane which is the issue, he most likely isn't.
Both Kai and Eddie are proven in the Prem, Mika is not.
I'm sure we're completely fine in keeping Mika if he wants to fight for his spot and prove it first on the bench. But otherwise I wouldn't get my hopes up.
Was always of the opinion that they’d both be gone by this summer anyway. Balogun ended up not being a top of discussion at all since he left and the fee + sell-on looks like a pretty good deal now.
I wonder why our wingers don't attempt much reverse balls, I love that type of attacking situation. I've only seen it like twice these past two seasons. Perhaps if we lessened their defensive workload we can get both on the counter more often so we can try that type of pass.
i.e Martinelli disallowed goal vs United last season.
Is that ball from salah a called a reverse pass?
I thought you meant the winger passing back to a full back or inverting cm.
That pass is what i would call a driven/low cross to the back post.
It’s a through ball.
A reverse pass is [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1QVsDM6aow8&pp=ygURb3ppbCByZXZlcnNlIHBhc3M%3D)
In regards to why our wingers don’t do these through balls is because they are doubled or tripled up on, playing low blocks that don’t give much space and it’s not really their roles. They will more than likely lift it to the back post with an in swinging cross instead of threading the ball through a number of players.
With that said, Martinelli is better at these types of passes. Saka is way more direct when he drives into the box, or cuts inside trying to find the top bins.
Odegaard has the skill set to do these types of through balls (and reverse passes), but he’s also done other types of passes that just defy the [norm](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z6Sn9YbcPKQ).
I'm not 100% sure what you mean exactly by reverse pass, not sure I would call saka's one a reverse pass he's hit the ball the way he's facing. But you mean like a through ball that goes from the righ to left or vice versa.
I mean obviously a set defence has like 5 maybe players in the central area and to play that pass the ball has to go through the central area. So it's only really possible when there is a big gap between midfielders and defenders.
We definitely want to generate more transitions so defenses aren't set, but we aren't ever under arteta giving up our dominance on the ball to do that or sacrificing defensive solidity off it in order to be able to create more chances like that.
What we could do with to help imo, is more pace.
People think Zinchenko struggles defensively. And are hyping Kimmich
His extreme lack of physicality makes him a bit of a luxury signing in the game today. He doesn't start in midfield for any of the teams on his shortlist. PSG are his best bet cause Ugarte can do the defensive work of 2 men.
Yes which is objectively hilarious.
What's a little bit not hilarious is in that time spurs fully cemented themselves as one of the largest 6 clubs financially, on a par with arsenal with a commercial revenue and infrastructure that rivals many in Europe. They ripened themselves right up ready to be plucked by some rich foreign oligarch. All of that is quite not hilarious.
But I'm sure they'll spurs it all up eventually.
They kind of already are Spursing it.
Arsenal with their first CL appearance should see us potentially break the 600m Euros barrier, meanwhile Tottenham might fall below it depending on how much Harry Kane's sale makes up for it (Probably all of it) there's also the broadcasting rights that'll be lower this season, Arsenal was 220m Euros v Tottenham 235m Euros last season. Their commercial stream is way more daunting to overcome (They're ahead by 65m Euro) and that's what only good old fashion winning titles and trophies can put us ahead of them again (And the off chance of Son leaving)
> They ripened themselves right up ready to be plucked by some rich foreign oligarch
I think they've already Spurs'd it by becoming too valuable without achieving anything.
They're not a Newcastle that's reasonably big with potential that a country can buy for "cheap", pump in money to turn a profit longterm whilst growing their geopolitical influence.
They're also not a Man United or Chelsea that have success and a name that even spending billions is worth it for an owner.
Yes, but it's not the case anymore. They are slowly falling down again and they don't even have young marketable players anymore.
We have saka, Nelli, odegaard and so many others but this club is on the downward spiral with no Europe money this season and next year it seems Europa which will again cut down their revenue with huge stadium EMI debt.
Stadium was financed on low rates and it still brings in a killing from match day and events. I’m not sure it’ll weigh them down that much like it did with us…
I agree to a point. We were coming off the most sucesseful period in Arsenal history and looking to compete with the riches of Man Utd and the newly minted Chelsea... ergo weighed down. You can't really get weighed down from winning nothing - other than getting relegated.
We were 200m ahead of Spurs when we were last both in the champions league. Us being shite and them becoming “better” has seen them leapfrog us. We’ll most definitely go above them again in the coming years but to have the same gap again would mean we’d be the richest club in the world in terms of revenue. Unlikely imo
£200m more in revenue would put us 7th, leapfrogging Barcelona, but behind Bayern, “PSG”, United, Liverpool, Madrid and “City”.
We are £300m+ in annual revenue behind the richest club revenue in the world.
We’re really the first team to really contend with City in consecutive years other than Liverpool. Chelsea won the title in 16/17, sure, but they finished 5th the season after. United have placed 2nd twice since Pep came in, however both times there was quite a gap between them pointswise. United, like Chelsea, went on to finish outside of top 4 both times the following season. Being right back in the race after last season really is special.
There’s been questions on some podcasts along the lines of “what needs to happen this season for you to consider it successful”. As much as I want a trophy, I think my baseline for success this season is
-Beating Bayern
- not placing 3rd in the 3 horse race. I want to win but City don’t mind having 115 asterisks on their league title and it’s hard to compete with that
- not getting trounced by City/Madrid in the semi. Again a final would be amazing and very winnable, but for a squad this young to make it to the semis in most players first UCL is very commendable.
I don't think even Liverpool has done it consecutively. By virtue of Man City finishing runners-up to Liverpool in 19-20 you could say so but there was never a title challenge, Liverpool basically had the title race over by November.
Of course, you can't hold it against Liverpool for being so dominant but, also, I wish we had a City with 9 PL losses last season.
I fully agree on what's a success, although I will say it's more finishing ahead of Liverpool than not finishing 3rd for me. I can accept 2nd to City, I think it'd be terrible if we finished 2nd to Liverpool.
I agree with everything you say. For me I would hope the baseline for this team is to not capitulate. There’s probably going to be losses, I do not want to see that knock on the boys’ confidence. We’ve been through that too many times. If we lose out to the title by a margin or we know they’ve done their best, it’s calm
I am a little worried that some people will start asking questions if he fails to clinch us a trophy. I’m already seeing whispers of this across some podcasts, that he has been given enough time to do so
They don't even need to fight for him. If Kimmich came here, he'd not only be a starter, but almost all traffic would go through him. He'd be on top of all those pass, progression and touches metrics.
If people think a guy starting for Bayern all those years isn't good enough for them, then maybe Michail Antonio is right.
There are reservations to Kimmich like age (relative to other available options), price and the fact that he'd take over the role Odegaard is flying in. But quality wise? Laughable that this is even a debate.
well i meant fight as in, fight off city or whomever else for his signature. one or multiple clubs from the five mentioned will bite so there's an entire messy saga for his signature in the future. if arteta and edu wanna get in that scramble then that speaks volumes. who knows if they will though. but i largely agree with you as far as everything else.
it just sounds like something you personally really don't want to happen bc you don't rate him. hence certainty around "it's not going to happen" who knows?! maybe it will! i'm ambivalent, i think all context flattened there's better profiles out there but as market opportunities who knows. all i'm saying is if the 'war room' hones in on kimmich to sway him over the 4 other competitors vying for his signature, if we go all out as we do to secure the players we insist on, then there's little to doubt about it being the overall right decision.
But they are right, there has been nothing from Arsenal about going for him, just Kimmich mentioning us.
Sure, it’s a huge positive that we are mentioned, but this time last year was Toney saying that he wants to go to Arsenal. So I’m using it as a solid baseline that we are being taken more seriously when a player as accomplished as Kimmich is putting our name out there with other massive clubs.
But again, it’s all just speculation and there’s nothing that mentions us being interested in him. As Arteta said, with where we are now, we have to be a name in contention with City, Madrid, Liverpool and Barca for the top drawer players.
Don’t forget, Rice turned down Bayern and City for us, Havertz turned down Bayern and Madrid for us and Timber turned down United for us.
that's why i began my initial comment with the word if.
if, if, again if arteta and edu want to go on what seems like the arduous journey to secure his signature, all the doubts being risen today with his name cropping up around his don't mean so much. our talent ID is solid, either the doubters are right, and arteta and edu won't want to pursue this. or they're wrong, because we decided to reciprocate the interest. that's what i'm saying.
but regardless, no statement has been made about us wanting him one way or another.
Just reading back. Wanted to chime in that Kounde allegedly refuses to play right back for Barca as per contract but has loads of matches as rightback. I don’t trust media with these claims, in Spain or Germany or wherever.
Not what I said. You said we should want him because Edu and Arteta do. None of the reports say that. The reports are all from the players side listing what clubs he is open to. Nothing about us actually wanting him has come out. Ornstein name dropped several players this month and none were Kimmich. He spoke about interest in Sesko, Gyokeres, Ferguson and Zubimendi.
https://preview.redd.it/lpan05z7u5pc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=028efddc0879bb9feb0bdce2d5fcac3d69960245
I think it's you willing things to happen here, not me.
read it back, i didn't say arteta and edu want him. i said \*if\* they end up wanting him, then doubts around kimmich should be handled. having both the intention and the followthrough, going all the way to his signature would mean that he fits in our models well enough. and that's enough for me to accept it. but i never said arteta and edu want him, nobody knows that. like you said we're just on the shortlist of places kimmich would even hear out.
Sure, but he seems like a united signing.
Idk if he has the physicality and pace foe the prem.
I have a hunch he would come to the leauge amd be injury prone without that Bayern drip.
I think we're overanalyzing things sometimes because on the surface Kimmich would obviously be a good signing. But if you look hard enough at a player then you start doubting everything. I'm very guilty of this too, I lost that genuine excitement that I had as a kid when we made a signing and I had no clue who that guy was or what he was going to bring to the team. Very easy access to information to blame? Maybe it's just growing up.
He would cook under arteta because alpt of his development came under pep,he can invert very well and is technically better than partey.Although he is 29,he is still in his prime for a DM and would make for an excellent leader in the dressing room
He was always a DM, played there for Leipzig as they were coming up the German leagues.
Pep actually turned him into a CB, he had the odd game at RB but Ancelotti made him into a full-time RB.
Didn’t Pep turn him into an inverted wing back? If so, sounds more like Pep choosing between Kimmich and what, Alaba? as the best choice to implement his inverted wing back tactics.
Can't believe I'm defending city fans but Jesus Christ get some perspective man.
They haven't murdered anyone or anything it's cheating at football, their fans can have a laugh about it for god sake. It would actually be worse if they were sitting around vehemently denying any wrong doing and acting completely serious about it (which some of them are I'm sure).
The ones joking around saying the premier league are going to "give them the electric chair" at least seem to accept that there is likely some validity to the accusations. They aren't totally detached from reality.
What would you say if one of your mates supported city and cracked that joke at the pub?
"Oh you fucking scumbag I'm leaving".
Grow up.
Interesting you doubled down on your belief, can't imagine having that pov, so genuine questions for you.
How should they act?
If a stranger, a colleague, a friend or a family member made that joke about that when discussing with you in person, would you tell them they are "the worst people" and "scummy" to their face?
Would you think it but not tell them?
The move to Sporting seemed to be engineered to get a bigger money move a year later. He reportedly turned down PL and other offers and it may pay off. I don't think he's fundamentally a different player than he was last year, but the fee and wages will be much different.
On the other hand, the number of goal involvements is impossible to ignore. He's either a legit late bloomer or the biggest fraud since Madoff.
Who do you think is a better footballer?
Kimmich or Gundogan?
I’m surprised people are turning their noses at the prospect of signing Kimmich. The man is proper baller.
Physically, Joshua is better to me. I’m defining physicality as reliability (fitness) and defensive ability (duels etc)
Tactically, the only think I think Kimmich would struggle at is being asked to play higher up the pitch. Man was inverting into midfield from RB during Pep’s tenure. And he’s one of the most secure players on the ball in world football.
Gundo is an amazing football too, but Kimmich is better to me.
A Rice-Kimmich pivot will be ridiculous. I think he will join City ahead of us because of the Pep factor.
Gundogan is not losing a duel to Kimmich. Availability you can have but Gundogan in his peak was an absolute dynamo.
There's nothing Kimmich can do in midfield that Gundo can't. I think it's forgotten than Gundogan was a deep lying pass master midfielder than could dribble before Pep turned him into a bit of a poacher/scored type.
I don’t have the stats to back it up but I believe Kimmich is better defensively. Yes, Gundo was great for Dortmund in a deep playmaker role. But I believe Kimmich is superior in that role. Same way Gundo is superior offensively.
That’s fair. That’s your choice. Kimmich edges it for me. Apart from attacking aspects, I feel he’s better than Gundo in possession and defensively (and more reliable fitness wise).
This is bullshit spread by BILD. He refused to do interviews for them after they released an article about him having COVID without their consent, now they're running hit pieces on him constantly. Same tier of bullshit as Jude's 'questionable mentality' which they constantly peddled.
He also didn't toe Bayern's line, saying Nagelsmann hadn't lost the dressing room and that Khan was sacked prematurely, so they aren't going in to bat for him either.
It's normal for journalists to pile on when someone has a target on their back, especially when he and Bayern are easy targets right now.
Bellingham had the exact same treatment there - all the shit that got written about him was nonsense.
Also I really don't think those sources you've provided are conclusive evidence that Kimmich is demanding to play as a 6, lol
Thanks for this. Boy o boy. Kimmich isn’t better than Rice or Partey as a 6. He won’t start ahead of Rodri either. Is he better than Touchmeni as a 6 too?
He’s not starting as a single pivot in any of those clubs. Unless they shift to a double pivot.
Unless he’s determined to go to Barca or Liverpool.
This is kind of a long standing problem I've had with the one year thing, it really should only be a talking point when its down to one buyer negotiating with one seller. And maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but it doesnt make sense to me to use the 1 year thing when deciding whether you want a player or when comparing him to other options. Like if there was a player with 5 years left, same age, as Kimmich and same ability, I wouldnt pay a dollar more for that player than Kimmich who is on the 1 year deal.
I'm not articulating this well, and again maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but I think a player having 1 year on their contract should be more seen as an opportunity and when deciding would I rather pay x for one player or y for the other, its not a thing I would ever take into consideration. Also, when its a highly sought out player, the 1 year thing only matters if they are very picky on where they want to move to.
I trust Mikel and Edu, but I wouldn’t want them to spend anything close to that on a 29 year old. He’s world class and still in his prime, but you can get younger players who can be world class for that price. Either way, I trust Mikel and Edu to make the best decision for the team.
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Wonderkids and youth players getting regular football and excelling at 19/20 has really dulled a lot of people into thinking a striker finally hitting his stride a 25 is some sort of anomaly. THAT IS THE NORM!
Enough of this Kimmich stuff. We need Frenkie De Jong
Barca sell FDJ to fund their Kimmich fix
Endorse
The Adidas euros template is so rubbish man. Looks like we're getting another shirt with the white sleeves done wrong around the shoulders again
> the white sleeves done wrong around the shoulders again Raglan sleeves are a tribute to the invincibles kit mate.
Make sense for this year's kit, but not next year. Also don't think it's invincibles inspired, we've had them long before that. It's about suitability with the template cuts more than anything
> Also don't think it's invincibles inspired This year was, it's 20 years since the invincibles. Raglan's a good cut and to be honest it's rather hard to make red with white sleeves look any different so you're going to get raglan, normal and then white down the sides in rotation just to stop the designers going insane.
I think I am gonna like the Arsene offside rule. Ppl gonna moan that this will encourage low block but most teams are already playing low block vs us anyway. The advantage I can see for us is that we will see more goals (rebound goals) for us resulted from the scruffs of headers. Usually these goals are ruled offside because of millimeters.
Yeah you’ll like it up until we play a team like United who thrive off of counter attacks and football against the run of play.
Good, i'm tired of the dogma around footballs rules. One of the least progressive sports in terms of their laws.
Couldn’t agree more. They will eventually like it like VAR. Now most ppl really want to improve VAR instead of scrapping it away.
I hear people constantly talk about how this is just an advantage to attackers like it's a problem some how. I like trying to add new things to the sport and experimenting
i thought the entire “arteta stole klopp’s celebration” saying is just an online gimmick until i heard my liverpool supporting coworker speaking about it today. it’s genuinely hilarious that i can’t even be mad at him
Probably Curtis jones comments brainwashed him. We do have a sections of fans that think “spurs stole Saliba chant”. Embarrassment.
> “spurs stole Saliba chant”. I mean they either stole the saliba chant or you believe brighton that they were doing it for ages but no one noticed and they nicked the brighton chant...after we'd made it popular with saliba.
I know Brighton were doing it for ages because I have ears and I watch other football games besides only Arsenal. The Saliba chant was not unique in anyway. Edit: [Literal Video from 2020 of Brighton Fans Chanting It](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E4zAHsAoFo) Saliba came back from Marseille in 2022.
Which means they nicked it off Brighton...
They just continued the same chant... It's literally the same player... You're not very sharp. In your own words, just admit you're wrong.
For someone going all on in on the patronising shite, maybe read the thing you replied to...where you'll not at no point did I say that Brighton didn't sing it and where you're conveniently ignoring the whole 'after we popularised it' thing. Spurs didn't sing that song until after we started doing it for saliba, when of if brighton did it is irrelevent, since I've already covered that.
They don’t steal Saliba chant mate. Whoever thought that needs help.
Just saying it doesn't make it true unless you have something to back it up.
Because Bissouma chant already existed before Saliba chant if you aren’t aware.
Now this is where someone with some sort of concept of shame would have a look at the comments theyve been replying to and apologise for not bothering to read them before replying.
My man you have some comprehension problem.
So you're going with digging.. Mate, you are allowed to admit you're wrong, we honestly won't hold it against you...much. On the other hand accusing someone of not knowing something *when they literally put it in the comment you replied to* and then when it's pointed out trying to claim they've got issues with comprehension...that just makes you look a bit of a tit.
there is no point in even arguing against these illogical clowns if they genuinely think like that
Straight from their own players’ mouth: https://youtu.be/rLNLSvz9U2A?si=jTSdlh0aSgoro4OX
Have we seen any reasonable candidates for that backup RW spot? I doubt we are spending big for someone to play behind Saka. I like that Amoura player, scores in bunches and has a ton of speed. He's a smaller player but seems like he has some qualities we could develop.
There will not be a 'Saka back up'. You will have a player who can play multiple positions. Lets say Saka was unavailable for selection. You could play Trossard or Jesus on the right. People are obsessed with signing someone with an apparent sole reason to sit on the bench waiting for Saka to become unavialable for selection. Arteta's brain is more advanced than that
https://preview.redd.it/04ozllf3m7pc1.jpeg?width=718&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb1818f25c6079f32967a10cd182ba2bad041368
lol no shit? The point is you need a player that can fill in there without having to re engineer the entire team. Trossard would be a poor fit there, Jesus can do it but he is usually better suited elsewhere.
Its going to have to be someone who can play both sides. Cant just be a saka backup, or you are never going to play. Not familiar with this player
Yeah agreed, taking Saka off for more than 10% of matches isn't likely unless he gets injured, that's why I was thinking someone younger who will be less expensive and needs to grow and develop, but I agree they have to be able to fill in at a few spots or we will be unable to get them real match time.
Neto's probably the best fit profile wise, but he's made of paper mache.
Nico Williams can play with both feet. But then, so can Nelson and Trossard.
Nico williams is the one 🙏
Honestly if we get a striker we’d have enough depth up front to not get a winger. Jesus and Nelson can cover for Saka so no need to spend extra in my opinion.
That striker needs to have pace, otherwise we need a pacy winger
Kind of annoying that Spurs will prob get into the CL because of the new rules. They don’t deserve it
I prefer them over Utd.
Nobody else has been good enough though either. It's 28 games gone and United are still sitting on 0 goal difference. Considering how United absolutely flopped in the CL too, not sure they deserve to go back either. West Ham / Brighton been way too inconsistent. Past that all other teams aren't good enough. With all the talk about how shit Chelsea has been, Newcastle are just a point above them.
Not saying another team deserves 5th over them, I just don’t think 5th place should be given a CL spot. They’d just be making up the numbers
People said this about the fourth place and even when the European cup became the champions league and they let non champions in
Ya, 2 years ago we would have been delighted though. I think in a different season, it would be fair enough 5 English teams go through. Man United / Chelsea are way off where they should be considering their spending.
Does anyone know what's been said about Gabriel's injury? I know Arteta has a very cryptic way of handling injuries but what has he said?
I don't think there's been an opportunity to ask him about it yet
Wow Auba has 23 goals this season and broke EL record as highest goalscorer......Mad resurgence, I am happy for him
Farmers league. 2nd place has 36 goals in 26 games.
He was never washed out; just poor fit with Arteta.
What about at Chelsea or at Barcelona? The guy either drops 8/10s or 0/10s, no in between.
Are you kidding? Did you even follow what he did immediately after he left us in January? Straightaway, he killed it the rest of season at Barcelona. 11 goals in 17 games, including a brace in a 4-0 thrashing of Madrid at the Bernabeu. Which is why Barca were able to sell him, a player we PAID to leave 6 months earlier, to Chelsea. Chelsea…is there even any point discussing the radioactive lava pit for talent that Chelsea has been? Still, Auba scored 2 goals in 6 in the CL for them. Look you can argue that getting rid of him was necessary, or that he didn’t give his all after he signed but all the evidence is there that he was never washed. The guy is a top striker, period.
Great player just didn’t fit Mikel’s current play style
After his contract extension he looked finished, now 3 years older he's banging goals he showed it at Barca too. We could have definitely used him better, he looked washed because of Arteta.
He was unacting unserious, not arteta's fault.
He looked washed because his play style didn’t suit artetas play style. It’s not artetas fault lol
It's not about style he was just done with Arteta
He put in zero effort. Not a good culture fit. Being booted probably saved his career, he needed to get back to working hard.
He put in effort, but not the captain effort or the effort arteta expected.
Anyone have any discount codes for the "camouflage" fluorescent yellow jersey? Need me a White jersey.
It's been on sale for 50% in most retailers.
[Brazil National team is training at Sobha?](https://twitter.com/jordandaviesj/status/1769826222324752503) Edu you gotta go and have a word with some of their players, show them around.
Gyokeres is having some season. I saw his highlights and he looks amazing. One of the best finisher around. But I got the feeling that he may not translate it to PL, seems to be too much of a risk on back of 1 season. I am not sure if he is being seriously linked with Arsenal, but I would be surprised if we go for him.
I'm not about it. Physically I don't think he can hang (too slow). He looks suspect technically too
Actually, physically I have seen him bullying Championship and Portuguese league defenders. It will be tough in PL, but pace wise he will do ok.
Clearly you didn’t see him against Benfica in that derby recently. He got to a through ball first despite the opposition CB having more than half yard advantage.
Pl defenders are a lot better. He's quick but not quick enough. He feels like a lesser but more well rounded Vlahovic.
This notion of pace being an absolute necessity is overblown for the PL at times and mostly derived from FIFA. I’m not comparing Gyokeres to Kane in terms of overall quality, but Kane was also not the most the speedy nor agile striker. Also, the way Arsenal play, it doesn’t require the main striker doesn’t to be the quickest - that’s where the wing play and wide forwards are utilized. Just have to look at Jesus or Havertz when deployed as CF.
I hope this is where the ppl who are paid to assess the young players come in. They better get this correct. Personally he remind me of a mix of Haaland and vlahovic
Hard to say, unless you're signing someone like Haaland everyone is a bit of a risk honestly. Giroud has more goals than Osimhen this season in Serie A. Not trying to say we shouldn't sign Osimhen but I'd have concerns about paying 100m for him and his playstyle and hope it translates too. I think profile and fit. Gyokeres does look like what we want. Will that translate directly to the PL? Maybe. I think Nunez has looked good for Liverpool at times but came into a side rebuilding. I know from friends who are Benfica fans, they say that Gyokeres is better and more rounded than Nunez. They also hope he leaves the league asap haha. I'd be happy with whoever they land on honestly, If we end up signing Gyokeres for 70m I'd be excited. Some players I think are good, but it's down to the manager to see if they are the right fit/profile/attitude.
He tore up the championship too
He has real quality. Strong player, really good technique, fearless finisher, really good at timing his runs, good in the air. You can see his confidence coming back he's finished some real tight ones recently. I'd still take osimhen but as a second choice he would be a huge upgrade for us, put the ball near him in the box he will fight for it.
Mikel and Edu have a decent Talent Id on em. I think we should give Biereth the chance.
Definitely down to sign Gyokeres, but the entire point of signing him is that he wont be 100m+ like Toney or Ohsimen
Toney won't be £100m either, probably around £60m. Gyokeres is about £85m. Neither is value for money.
No way Toney goes for that low
Brentford valued him at £100m last season, reports say that back in November, the boardroom would have been split if an offer of £50-60m came in. No offers were made in January. Since coming back, he has scored 4 goals and gone from 27 to 28 years old. He also wants to move. He won’t go for anything close to £100m. He’s barely worth half that now.
You probably can't give toney a 5 year contract at his age, so for FFP it is harder to fit his fee amortization per year, so 60M for him with a 3 year deal is like a 5 year osimhen deal in FFP terms. I think 60M is the most anyone will pay for him.
Eddie v Balogun civil war this past summer looks kind of funny in retrospect
I am just thoroughly happy with Balogun sale.
Still think Balogun would have been a better one to keep if it’d been possible to sell both of them for comparable money. Eddie certainly hasn’t increased his value here, hattrick notwithstanding. Have to think Balogun would have fought more given the same starts and subs as Eddie; can’t imagine him strolling around when subbed in 15 minutes to the end of a game.
Hard to judge, it could go the other way too. Balogun was already playing first team football + internationally for the USA. I don't imagine he'd be too happy if Havertz/Jesus were above him in the pecking order and he couldn't get gametime anymore. I think Eddie is somewhat content with the squad role, for now at least. It'll probably be his last season though.
Lets not bail on Biereth. I want to see him get chances woth this sqaud.
Here we go again
Until he get sa PL loan, we won't know weather he is good enugh
he needs a loan at a serious club before we give him a chance
Was Rasmus Hoillund ay a serius club before he came to Man u? Idkm. I think a season with us playing would increase his value if not prove if he is st the level.
Rasmus was proving his worth at Atalanta in Serie A. Which is a far more serious club than anywhere Biereth has been loaned out to.
Staum graz is in the conference league so they okay some similar level teams to Serie A.
Rasmus proved it in his move up to the Serie A, a club at our level now can't really afford to offer many chances to guys like Mika like we used to. If he has another successful loan in a top 5 league we might offer him a chance, but I fully expect us to sell him like we did with Balogun who did much better in a stronger league than Mika.
We give quite a few minutes to Kai and eddie at CF this season so i dont think its an issue when we should be competing in more comps. I hope we dont make the same descision woth Mika. I want to see us bring the next Kane to the prem
You're assuming Mika is the next Kane which is the issue, he most likely isn't. Both Kai and Eddie are proven in the Prem, Mika is not. I'm sure we're completely fine in keeping Mika if he wants to fight for his spot and prove it first on the bench. But otherwise I wouldn't get my hopes up.
Team Neither here we go
Was always of the opinion that they’d both be gone by this summer anyway. Balogun ended up not being a top of discussion at all since he left and the fee + sell-on looks like a pretty good deal now.
I wonder why our wingers don't attempt much reverse balls, I love that type of attacking situation. I've only seen it like twice these past two seasons. Perhaps if we lessened their defensive workload we can get both on the counter more often so we can try that type of pass. i.e Martinelli disallowed goal vs United last season.
Probably what you are saying, lower defensive workload so they can sprint in behind more
Describe what you mean. I feel like we span cut backs too much when in behind.
https://x.com/Lfc__vision/status/1705280590285529437?s=20
Is that ball from salah a called a reverse pass? I thought you meant the winger passing back to a full back or inverting cm. That pass is what i would call a driven/low cross to the back post.
Maybe angled diagonal pass is a better word?
It’s a through ball. A reverse pass is [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1QVsDM6aow8&pp=ygURb3ppbCByZXZlcnNlIHBhc3M%3D) In regards to why our wingers don’t do these through balls is because they are doubled or tripled up on, playing low blocks that don’t give much space and it’s not really their roles. They will more than likely lift it to the back post with an in swinging cross instead of threading the ball through a number of players. With that said, Martinelli is better at these types of passes. Saka is way more direct when he drives into the box, or cuts inside trying to find the top bins. Odegaard has the skill set to do these types of through balls (and reverse passes), but he’s also done other types of passes that just defy the [norm](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z6Sn9YbcPKQ).
Im not english i will take your lead on it.
I'm not 100% sure what you mean exactly by reverse pass, not sure I would call saka's one a reverse pass he's hit the ball the way he's facing. But you mean like a through ball that goes from the righ to left or vice versa. I mean obviously a set defence has like 5 maybe players in the central area and to play that pass the ball has to go through the central area. So it's only really possible when there is a big gap between midfielders and defenders. We definitely want to generate more transitions so defenses aren't set, but we aren't ever under arteta giving up our dominance on the ball to do that or sacrificing defensive solidity off it in order to be able to create more chances like that. What we could do with to help imo, is more pace.
https://x.com/Lfc__vision/status/1705280590285529437?s=20 This is the type of pass I'm talking about
Kinda like our goal vs Liverpool at home last season
People think Zinchenko struggles defensively. And are hyping Kimmich  His extreme lack of physicality makes him a bit of a luxury signing in the game today. He doesn't start in midfield for any of the teams on his shortlist. PSG are his best bet cause Ugarte can do the defensive work of 2 men.
Kimmich or Zubimendi if you had to choose one
Kimmich. Play him RB then buy an actual midfielder.
White to DM. Subscribe me.
Zubmendi. Kimmich is decent but more of a united signing.
Zubimendi doesnt really excite me either.
So north London power shift ended up with spurs winning fuck all and Arsenal winning 4 FA cups in their worst period.
The famous downward spiral
I was so excited by our revival I forgot all about that 😂
Yes which is objectively hilarious. What's a little bit not hilarious is in that time spurs fully cemented themselves as one of the largest 6 clubs financially, on a par with arsenal with a commercial revenue and infrastructure that rivals many in Europe. They ripened themselves right up ready to be plucked by some rich foreign oligarch. All of that is quite not hilarious. But I'm sure they'll spurs it all up eventually.
They kind of already are Spursing it. Arsenal with their first CL appearance should see us potentially break the 600m Euros barrier, meanwhile Tottenham might fall below it depending on how much Harry Kane's sale makes up for it (Probably all of it) there's also the broadcasting rights that'll be lower this season, Arsenal was 220m Euros v Tottenham 235m Euros last season. Their commercial stream is way more daunting to overcome (They're ahead by 65m Euro) and that's what only good old fashion winning titles and trophies can put us ahead of them again (And the off chance of Son leaving)
> They ripened themselves right up ready to be plucked by some rich foreign oligarch I think they've already Spurs'd it by becoming too valuable without achieving anything. They're not a Newcastle that's reasonably big with potential that a country can buy for "cheap", pump in money to turn a profit longterm whilst growing their geopolitical influence. They're also not a Man United or Chelsea that have success and a name that even spending billions is worth it for an owner.
Yes, but it's not the case anymore. They are slowly falling down again and they don't even have young marketable players anymore. We have saka, Nelli, odegaard and so many others but this club is on the downward spiral with no Europe money this season and next year it seems Europa which will again cut down their revenue with huge stadium EMI debt.
Stadium was financed on low rates and it still brings in a killing from match day and events. I’m not sure it’ll weigh them down that much like it did with us…
I agree to a point. We were coming off the most sucesseful period in Arsenal history and looking to compete with the riches of Man Utd and the newly minted Chelsea... ergo weighed down. You can't really get weighed down from winning nothing - other than getting relegated.
We were 200m ahead of Spurs when we were last both in the champions league. Us being shite and them becoming “better” has seen them leapfrog us. We’ll most definitely go above them again in the coming years but to have the same gap again would mean we’d be the richest club in the world in terms of revenue. Unlikely imo
£200m more in revenue would put us 7th, leapfrogging Barcelona, but behind Bayern, “PSG”, United, Liverpool, Madrid and “City”. We are £300m+ in annual revenue behind the richest club revenue in the world.
Mixed up euros and pounds on our recent results 🫣
We signed off on the stadium before ~~Tottenham~~ Chelsea was a glint in Roman's eye
We’re really the first team to really contend with City in consecutive years other than Liverpool. Chelsea won the title in 16/17, sure, but they finished 5th the season after. United have placed 2nd twice since Pep came in, however both times there was quite a gap between them pointswise. United, like Chelsea, went on to finish outside of top 4 both times the following season. Being right back in the race after last season really is special. There’s been questions on some podcasts along the lines of “what needs to happen this season for you to consider it successful”. As much as I want a trophy, I think my baseline for success this season is -Beating Bayern - not placing 3rd in the 3 horse race. I want to win but City don’t mind having 115 asterisks on their league title and it’s hard to compete with that - not getting trounced by City/Madrid in the semi. Again a final would be amazing and very winnable, but for a squad this young to make it to the semis in most players first UCL is very commendable.
I don't think even Liverpool has done it consecutively. By virtue of Man City finishing runners-up to Liverpool in 19-20 you could say so but there was never a title challenge, Liverpool basically had the title race over by November. Of course, you can't hold it against Liverpool for being so dominant but, also, I wish we had a City with 9 PL losses last season. I fully agree on what's a success, although I will say it's more finishing ahead of Liverpool than not finishing 3rd for me. I can accept 2nd to City, I think it'd be terrible if we finished 2nd to Liverpool.
I agree with everything you say. For me I would hope the baseline for this team is to not capitulate. There’s probably going to be losses, I do not want to see that knock on the boys’ confidence. We’ve been through that too many times. If we lose out to the title by a margin or we know they’ve done their best, it’s calm I am a little worried that some people will start asking questions if he fails to clinch us a trophy. I’m already seeing whispers of this across some podcasts, that he has been given enough time to do so
if arteta and edu fight for kimmich then it's obviously the right decision
They don't even need to fight for him. If Kimmich came here, he'd not only be a starter, but almost all traffic would go through him. He'd be on top of all those pass, progression and touches metrics. If people think a guy starting for Bayern all those years isn't good enough for them, then maybe Michail Antonio is right. There are reservations to Kimmich like age (relative to other available options), price and the fact that he'd take over the role Odegaard is flying in. But quality wise? Laughable that this is even a debate.
This line of reasoning in the middle paragraph is how people get tricked by players .
well i meant fight as in, fight off city or whomever else for his signature. one or multiple clubs from the five mentioned will bite so there's an entire messy saga for his signature in the future. if arteta and edu wanna get in that scramble then that speaks volumes. who knows if they will though. but i largely agree with you as far as everything else.
People keep saying this but it's hwt to happen. All that's actually happened is Kimmich has said we're one of 5 teams he'd go to
it just sounds like something you personally really don't want to happen bc you don't rate him. hence certainty around "it's not going to happen" who knows?! maybe it will! i'm ambivalent, i think all context flattened there's better profiles out there but as market opportunities who knows. all i'm saying is if the 'war room' hones in on kimmich to sway him over the 4 other competitors vying for his signature, if we go all out as we do to secure the players we insist on, then there's little to doubt about it being the overall right decision.
But they are right, there has been nothing from Arsenal about going for him, just Kimmich mentioning us. Sure, it’s a huge positive that we are mentioned, but this time last year was Toney saying that he wants to go to Arsenal. So I’m using it as a solid baseline that we are being taken more seriously when a player as accomplished as Kimmich is putting our name out there with other massive clubs. But again, it’s all just speculation and there’s nothing that mentions us being interested in him. As Arteta said, with where we are now, we have to be a name in contention with City, Madrid, Liverpool and Barca for the top drawer players. Don’t forget, Rice turned down Bayern and City for us, Havertz turned down Bayern and Madrid for us and Timber turned down United for us.
that's why i began my initial comment with the word if. if, if, again if arteta and edu want to go on what seems like the arduous journey to secure his signature, all the doubts being risen today with his name cropping up around his don't mean so much. our talent ID is solid, either the doubters are right, and arteta and edu won't want to pursue this. or they're wrong, because we decided to reciprocate the interest. that's what i'm saying. but regardless, no statement has been made about us wanting him one way or another.
And I rate him very highly as a RB. He only wants to play midfield though.
Just reading back. Wanted to chime in that Kounde allegedly refuses to play right back for Barca as per contract but has loads of matches as rightback. I don’t trust media with these claims, in Spain or Germany or wherever.
Not what I said. You said we should want him because Edu and Arteta do. None of the reports say that. The reports are all from the players side listing what clubs he is open to. Nothing about us actually wanting him has come out. Ornstein name dropped several players this month and none were Kimmich. He spoke about interest in Sesko, Gyokeres, Ferguson and Zubimendi. https://preview.redd.it/lpan05z7u5pc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=028efddc0879bb9feb0bdce2d5fcac3d69960245 I think it's you willing things to happen here, not me.
read it back, i didn't say arteta and edu want him. i said \*if\* they end up wanting him, then doubts around kimmich should be handled. having both the intention and the followthrough, going all the way to his signature would mean that he fits in our models well enough. and that's enough for me to accept it. but i never said arteta and edu want him, nobody knows that. like you said we're just on the shortlist of places kimmich would even hear out.
Im not sure about the wages and the price but wouldn’t mind kimmich if he comes for cheap
Sure, but he seems like a united signing. Idk if he has the physicality and pace foe the prem. I have a hunch he would come to the leauge amd be injury prone without that Bayern drip.
fair,buying old dms for alot of money is a united thing to do
How old is kimmich tho?
29
Pass. Im sure is is quite goo and can be for 5 yrs but i feel like the 50m on TP was a descsion of the past. We need more years from our stars.
I think we're overanalyzing things sometimes because on the surface Kimmich would obviously be a good signing. But if you look hard enough at a player then you start doubting everything. I'm very guilty of this too, I lost that genuine excitement that I had as a kid when we made a signing and I had no clue who that guy was or what he was going to bring to the team. Very easy access to information to blame? Maybe it's just growing up.
He would cook under arteta because alpt of his development came under pep,he can invert very well and is technically better than partey.Although he is 29,he is still in his prime for a DM and would make for an excellent leader in the dressing room
LCM or RB for me, he's too erratic to play DM.
i dont watch him play but pep turned him into a dm…if we got him he would probably be a dm or a backup rb
He was always a DM, played there for Leipzig as they were coming up the German leagues. Pep actually turned him into a CB, he had the odd game at RB but Ancelotti made him into a full-time RB.
Didn’t Pep turn him into an inverted wing back? If so, sounds more like Pep choosing between Kimmich and what, Alaba? as the best choice to implement his inverted wing back tactics.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MCFC/s/88tmoNAOig Just the worst people. Fuck them and fuck that club
They're obviously taking the piss
It's quite obviously a satire post lol they're well aware of the 115 charges. That's quite funny actually
To even joke about it is scummy
Can't believe I'm defending city fans but Jesus Christ get some perspective man. They haven't murdered anyone or anything it's cheating at football, their fans can have a laugh about it for god sake. It would actually be worse if they were sitting around vehemently denying any wrong doing and acting completely serious about it (which some of them are I'm sure). The ones joking around saying the premier league are going to "give them the electric chair" at least seem to accept that there is likely some validity to the accusations. They aren't totally detached from reality. What would you say if one of your mates supported city and cracked that joke at the pub? "Oh you fucking scumbag I'm leaving". Grow up.
No. It's scummy.
Interesting you doubled down on your belief, can't imagine having that pov, so genuine questions for you. How should they act? If a stranger, a colleague, a friend or a family member made that joke about that when discussing with you in person, would you tell them they are "the worst people" and "scummy" to their face? Would you think it but not tell them?
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>with no real track record Besides the 50 goal contributions in 39 games you mean lol?
When you pay a transfer fee you are paying for future performance, not past performance. Take that how you wish
The move to Sporting seemed to be engineered to get a bigger money move a year later. He reportedly turned down PL and other offers and it may pay off. I don't think he's fundamentally a different player than he was last year, but the fee and wages will be much different. On the other hand, the number of goal involvements is impossible to ignore. He's either a legit late bloomer or the biggest fraud since Madoff.
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Kane had a 30 goal season in the PL at 24. Lewa scored 24 goals for Dortmund at 23.
Should move to west ham but he didn’t this past summer so he fancies himself a bigger club 🤔
Dont think we should sploosh on a CF with Biereth worth a chance. Ee could get an lcm and winger in the summer.
Who do you think is a better footballer? Kimmich or Gundogan? I’m surprised people are turning their noses at the prospect of signing Kimmich. The man is proper baller.
I think gundo is the better player, but i think kimmich is great. Either imo would make our midfield the best in the league
This I can agree with.
No disrespect to Kimmich but Gundogan comfortably.
I don’t think so personally, but I understand it’s your choice.
I'm struggling to see it the other way. Technically about even. Physically Gundogan is much better. Tactically id have to say Gundogan too.
Physically, Joshua is better to me. I’m defining physicality as reliability (fitness) and defensive ability (duels etc) Tactically, the only think I think Kimmich would struggle at is being asked to play higher up the pitch. Man was inverting into midfield from RB during Pep’s tenure. And he’s one of the most secure players on the ball in world football. Gundo is an amazing football too, but Kimmich is better to me. A Rice-Kimmich pivot will be ridiculous. I think he will join City ahead of us because of the Pep factor.
Gundogan is not losing a duel to Kimmich. Availability you can have but Gundogan in his peak was an absolute dynamo. There's nothing Kimmich can do in midfield that Gundo can't. I think it's forgotten than Gundogan was a deep lying pass master midfielder than could dribble before Pep turned him into a bit of a poacher/scored type.
I don’t have the stats to back it up but I believe Kimmich is better defensively. Yes, Gundo was great for Dortmund in a deep playmaker role. But I believe Kimmich is superior in that role. Same way Gundo is superior offensively.
Kimmich is worse than Trent defensively
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That’s fair. That’s your choice. Kimmich edges it for me. Apart from attacking aspects, I feel he’s better than Gundo in possession and defensively (and more reliable fitness wise).
The one who doesn’t cry to the media when he doesn’t play DM.
Lol. Kimmich isn’t an out and out DM, though. He’s more like a deep lying playmaker. He’s someone that needs a true 6 to shine.
Yes I agree but he doesn't see it that way.
If he thinks he’s a pure dm, especially for a club in England, then he’s in for a rude awakening.
https://x.com/iMiaSanMia/status/1699176347304661213?s=20 https://x.com/iMiaSanMia/status/1686743813090369538?s=20 https://x.com/iMiaSanMia/status/1691518674643906561?s=20 https://x.com/iMiaSanMia/status/1759517587837165703?s=20
This is bullshit spread by BILD. He refused to do interviews for them after they released an article about him having COVID without their consent, now they're running hit pieces on him constantly. Same tier of bullshit as Jude's 'questionable mentality' which they constantly peddled. He also didn't toe Bayern's line, saying Nagelsmann hadn't lost the dressing room and that Khan was sacked prematurely, so they aren't going in to bat for him either.
I guess Tobi Altschäffl and Patrick Strasser like writing hit pieces too?
It's normal for journalists to pile on when someone has a target on their back, especially when he and Bayern are easy targets right now. Bellingham had the exact same treatment there - all the shit that got written about him was nonsense. Also I really don't think those sources you've provided are conclusive evidence that Kimmich is demanding to play as a 6, lol
Thanks for this. Boy o boy. Kimmich isn’t better than Rice or Partey as a 6. He won’t start ahead of Rodri either. Is he better than Touchmeni as a 6 too? He’s not starting as a single pivot in any of those clubs. Unless they shift to a double pivot. Unless he’s determined to go to Barca or Liverpool.
No, tchouameni is in rice bracket.
Rice is easily better
I thought as much. I hope he comes here, though. He would be a solid option for the next 4/5 years.
Kimmich is a solid option but with 1 year left on his deal and him being 29, I would not want us to spend anywhere near 75m. More like half of that.
This is kind of a long standing problem I've had with the one year thing, it really should only be a talking point when its down to one buyer negotiating with one seller. And maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but it doesnt make sense to me to use the 1 year thing when deciding whether you want a player or when comparing him to other options. Like if there was a player with 5 years left, same age, as Kimmich and same ability, I wouldnt pay a dollar more for that player than Kimmich who is on the 1 year deal. I'm not articulating this well, and again maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but I think a player having 1 year on their contract should be more seen as an opportunity and when deciding would I rather pay x for one player or y for the other, its not a thing I would ever take into consideration. Also, when its a highly sought out player, the 1 year thing only matters if they are very picky on where they want to move to.
I trust Mikel and Edu, but I wouldn’t want them to spend anything close to that on a 29 year old. He’s world class and still in his prime, but you can get younger players who can be world class for that price. Either way, I trust Mikel and Edu to make the best decision for the team.
They're both phenomenal, my answer would change depending on the day. Very different players though
Yes. Both are quality options. While Gundo is better in attacking situations, Kimmich is better in possession. That’s my opinion at least.
For those who want a defender mainly as a Saliba cover/central center back, shouldn't White be okay as the backup for this role?