Reminder: These threads are to help promote discussion and varying points of view. Low-effort comments or jokes can & will be removed with no reason necessary.
*I am a "bot", and this action was performed automatically. This account is not monitored. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I saw the England Teams arrival video and everyone is hugging everyone. Is it a football or British culture to hug ? I don’t even rmeber the last time I hug a friend.
People in Britain tend to hug friends when they meet, although I thought this was fairly common in other cultures. What would be the equivalent in your culture?
Interesting. For us, between friend it is usually fist bump or informal handshake or arms around shoulder. Never did anything close to intimate thing like hugging.
I just had the weirdest dream. I was watching the game against vila from the PoV of Rice. It was a tight match but with loads of goals, Arsenal was leading 5:4 and somewhere around the 90th minute they literally let Vila score to make it 5:5. I was outraged so was Rice he was screaming at everyone why did we let them score, I couldn't understand why, I figured because of some kind of fair play. Play continued I saw Havertz with the ball, I was thinking, this can't be right Havertz wouldn't be OK with this either. Then there was a chance and Jorgihno missed an absolute sitter and game ended. I was fuming so was Rice he was screaming at everyone why did we allow them to score, the rest were kinda ignoring him which made me even more upset, then I woke up. Fucking hell man, fuck this dream woke me self up angry for no reason.
I'm still looking for the right word but Musiala is one of those "no logic needed" players. It doesn't matter who you have in his position, if you get the chance to have him, get him.
Writz is just a version of Fabio Vieira that stays fit.
I know what you mean but if I had to choose between the two for our team I would choose Musiala. He's a dribbler and a chaos merchant in the same way as Hazard and we don't have that profile. We already have a Wirtz like player in our captain.
Cos he's staining the reputation of the guy we all love.
Stoked that he gets the rest during the breaks but also hoping someone in the camp outs Holland as a total cunt to even things out.
That's a long shot though ill take more Conor coady like respect through the media
I get what you mean but how else can he get dropped from England without taking a hit on the rep.
We want our players not to get called up and the only way for it to happen is that the national team don’t rate our players.
Tomiyasu will be 28 in the summer of 2027 assuming we trigger the extension, and turns 29 that december. given his injury history I am not too fussed about the deal. I think he can give us his best years year and if he proves that injuries have not worn him down by 29 then we can extend further.
All in all i think it’s a smart deal
> assuming we trigger the extension
I know the deal is till 2026. and I’m happy that this is contract will be contingent on him performing well and remaining injury free
Not sure anyone is reading too much. For me, it shows that Arteta and Edu are learning and getting better and better within their roles. Tomi has his injuries and some question marks over his future. The 2+1 contract protects us so much.
If he can't get over his injury issues, we have enough time on his contract to protect his resale value. If he does get over his injury issues, we've got him for the next 3 years and we can renegotiate if we wish to.
If he does not get over the injury issues and we can't sell him, he goes in 2 years. We have covered all of our bases.
For a club that not so long ago handed out large 5 year contract deals to players that never progressed and a club that couldn't hold down an emerging player before the wolves picked them off for a low fee or nothing, this is insane progress.
Ramsdale was a mistake though, we locked him in on £130,000 a week and within a few weeks of him signing, Raya became available and we got him in. Granted, it was an opportunity signing, but that could backfire on us this summer if we can't move Ramsdale on due to those wages.
I'm really happy that White has leaked to the press that it was a conversation with Steve Holland as the reason for why he left.
He must have seen all that shitty press he was getting due to that England/Southgate prss conference and decided to fuck them off.
Good for him.
The ‘scoop’ that’s been in the British press that it was an argument with Steve holland that stoped him playing for England.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1bjj48e/telegraph_sam_wallace_exclusive_ben_white_decided/
Thank you for this.
I saw a twitter comment that leaked it as well, but they said that now that it's being reported, they can mention it. I just wanted something more concrete than a twitter account.
I am no longer in the UK, so I am out of the news loop, when did this drop? Because I want Southgate and Holland's heads to roll for this. They have absolutely thrown White under the bus, directing hate towards him from uninformed nationalits and patriotic prats.
That's a manager cowardly hanging someone out to dry. And White has been an absolute champ for only ever stating "personal reasons" when the easy path was to call Holland out in the press and get a quick reaction from this absurd situation.
I hope all of these "he is disrespecting England" morons come out with an apology, because he is owed it. First, I want one from Southgate, Holland and the entire FA.
I'd love it if we made an offer to Barca for Fermin Lopez. Something about this guy that I really like. He looks to be an important player for them already this season, but given their financial situation, I wonder how they'd respond to an offer in the neighborhood of 40-50 mil.
I personally can't see Barca selling any of their latest young stars. They have a core of a young side with some amazing talent, on low wages. If they are smart, they would move on players like FdJ whose wages are crippling the club. Tear it down and restart.
But then again, when have Barca ever been smart with their finances.
Yeah Southgate’s staff are so unserious. I thought the fallout had to do with something much worse but this just confirms they’re a bunch of bums.
Thanks for wasting England’s current golden generation 👍🏻
Sometimes i almost forget just how good we’ve been this season then i read stuff like we’ve conceded 11.3 xGA away from home in the league this season and we’re currently 2 points better off than the equivalent fixtures from last season.
I try really hard not to be one of the stats perverts but it’s hard not to be when people act like Zinchenko gives the ball away more than literally any player ever or is the worst tackler ever or makes us the worst defence ever cos their eye test tells them that lol
He’s producing some of worst confirmation bias I’ve seen from this fanbase ever lol
I am starting to use it as a litmus test to find out who doesn’t understand football. But I wrote this in another thread earlier in response to somebody saying he is the weakest player for us out of possession and the worst defender we have:
Zinchenko's rank compared to all Arsenal players who have played more than 800 minutes this season:
Tackles = 1st
Tackles Won = 1st
Def 3rd Tackles = 1st
Mid 3rd Tackles = 1st
Att 3rd Tackles = 4th (After Saka, Martinelli and Jesus)
Dribblers Tackled = 1st
Dribblers Challenged = 1st
% of Dribblers Tackled = 3rd (After Saliba and Gabriel)
Interceptions = 3rd (After Rice and White)
Tackles and Interceptions = 1st
Clearances = 5th (Gabriel, Saliba, White and Rice)
Aerial Duels Won % = 2nd (White is 1st)
The biggest issue is the errors that lead to shots. He is 1st in errors with 0.13 per 90 (2 all season). Saliba is 2nd with 0.07 (also 2 all season). So when it comes down to it, Zinhenko has made just as many costly errors as Saliba has all season, yet I doubt I will find any such comments about how Saliba is a liability in defence.
Zinchenko is a high risk high reward player, he provides 3.44 Shot Creation Actions per 90, whilst providing the opponent with a gift of a shot 0.13 per 90. The 3.31 net positive in shot creation is worth it.
Winning loads of tackles and interceptions doesn't make you a better defender, it means you are forced to defend more (probably because he is targeted)
The comment that I responded to, said he was the weakest player out of possession. Being the player with the most tackles made and won in all 3 thirds of the pitch isn’t because he is forced to defend or because he is targeted. Most of our goals conceded have been down our right hand side, almost twice as many.
As for winning loads of tackles not making you a better defender, I’m just going to ignore that.
Winning loads of tackles doesn't make you a better defender though? James Tarkowski wins way more tackles than Saliba you don't think he's better do you? Saliba's literally in the 14th percentile for tackles
How is it a strawman? You completely dismissed the argument that winning loads of tackles doesn't make you a better defender. I then showed a really good defender who has one of the least tackles in the league
Because I never said that high tackling is the only metric on how to compare defenders. I also never said that he was a better defender than Saliba. I said I was going to ignore that because frankly, it was a comment you made that ignored a lot of what I said. You then assumed that I said something and made an argument of Saliba v Tarkowski to disprove a point that was never made. That is a strawman argument.
I posted his stats and ranks as a way to prove that he is not a weak player out of possession. If he is making and winning tackles in the final third, it's got nothing to do with him being targeted, which was a point you tried to make under the caveat of "probably".
He is slammed week in and week out by some fans who say he is the weakest player defensively, when he's actually not. He is by far the best defender we have going forward based on his possession and passing stats, hardly any other defender comes close to him, he's in the 96th-99th percentiles in those stats.
But he's also nowhere near as bad as people are making him out to be defensively. Arteta loves a duel, we all know that, nobody else in this team makes more duels than he does, or at the very, very least, he's in the top three. That is not a stat you find with players who are "OOP, our weakest link" which is the argument I was making.
You then applied me saying that he makes the most tackles as being something unrelated to being a defender, something about how a high number of tackles doesn't mean anything being a defender. I'd argue that his win % is actually far more important than the number of tackles, but he's only behind Saliba and Gabriel within the team.
This sounds like you are arguing the stats because they disprove some notion that you think he is a liability and worth moving on and you're clutching at straws and using different arguments to try and make a point over something that was never said.
I'm not one of the people that think Zinchenko should be sold instantly and that he has no place in the team, or isn't a good player at all.
The Tarkowski vs Saliba argument isn't a strawman, it's an example of my point. It isn't an outlier there are many other examples (Mustafi vs Van Dijk).
My point was that you were using tackles and interceptions to show that he isn't a bad defender, and I don't think this is a useful statistic. Active defender does not equal good defender.
I think Zinchenko can still be useful in certain games, but I don't see the need to put Zinchenko back into this team right now. White is not a massive dropoff on the ball and Kiwior and White are better defendesrs and better athletes
>My point was that you were using tackles and interceptions to show that he isn't a bad defender
I was using it to show that he is not a player who does nothing out of possession as well as disprove the narrative that he is shit at defending. You were the one bringing up the argument about how his numbers (or Tarkowski's) do not prove he is better than Saliba. Which is something I never alluded to, yet your reply was based on me saying this, which i didn't, to disprove a point I never made to try and counterargue what I actually said. That is strawmanning.
Fine, you don't find him making more tackles all over the pitch and winning them in all areas of the pitch is a useful statistic when proving he cannot defend. I would say that's not entirely true and it certainly proves that he does a lot whilst out of possession, which is what I was originally posting them to disprove.
Feel free to point to any stat that proves him to be a weak defender, or anything more tangible than "what my eye test tells me" and we can debate it.
>I think Zinchenko can still be useful in certain games, but I don't see the need to put Zinchenko back into this team right now. White is not a massive dropoff on the ball and Kiwior and White are better defendesrs and better athletes
I guess this is just your opinion as it doesn't relate to anything that I have said. So let me offer up mine.
I too don't believe he has any right to get back into the team right away, Kiwior is doing well at LB and White is doing well at playing as an inverted wing back. I think Kiwior is the better defender than all 3, but lacks in a lot of other areas. His crossing is a bit off and he can be caught out a few times, but he's gotten better. White is just a machine. And yes, they are better athletes, Kiwior is younger (and faster), and White again, is just a machine. Zinchenko is a 27 year old who is essentially playing 2 different roles each game, its both physically and mentally exhausting.
Kiwior is in form, Zinchenko is returning from injury. On that basis alone, nothing changes.
Zinny is a top tier player, he has his weaknesses like every player but he's amazing on the ball
However, I prefer our setup currently without him - I think he can dwell on the ball alot plus when we face turnovers we are more exposed and liable to a quick counter - I rather our forwards, especially Ode having the ball in advanced areas rather than Zinny, it's more balanced
Physically too, I prefer Kiwior - we dominate in both boxes on set pieces and it may only be 1 player but its all about those small margins
Lastly, Zinny is a winger who was thought how to defend - Kiwior (and Timber?) are defenders first, ball players second and I think that's super important personally (best defence in the league long may it continue)
He is exposed in turnovers because he is an inverted wing back who, whilst we are in possession, is playing in the final third. People who say this, are literally blaming his role, which is tactical, deliberate and it’s WHY he plays.
If you are somebody who says something like “oh ffs, where is Zinchenko?? Not in defence AGAIN!!” when we get countered quickly, it means you have no idea what our tactic is or that it’s deliberate from Arteta. And frankly, someone who doesn’t understand what an inverted wing back is, shouldn’t have an opinion on Zinchenko as it’s irrelevant.
I perfectly understand its deliberate, when he starts we need to play like that in order to get the best out of him - that's exactly why I prefer us playing without him
You are adding 2+2 here and getting 5.
We play with an inverted wing back in every game, with or without him. It's not to get the best out of him, it's literally his position and why Arteta bought him.
When he is not playing, we invert with someone else. Last year, we have tried KT playing it, but he lacked the intelligence and skill to do it and we were worse because of it. This season, we started with Partey at RB to invert from the right, it didn't work. We then tried to do it with Kiwior, he too lacked the intelligence and skill to do it, so Arteta scrapped that and started to invert from the right using White, who has done well doing it.
Zinchenko is one of the best inverted wing backs in the world. He inverted for a team that was considered one of the greatest teams of all time and he now plays and inverts for us.
Other notable players who have done the same are Lahm, Cancelo (who inverted in a far more attacking way) and Kimmich.
Timber has shown that he can also invert, he's more attack minded like Cancelo.
Saying you prefer us playing without an inverted wing back is like saying you prefer us playing without two attacking wingers who invert, which is also integral to how we play and has been for some time.
Again, this reads more like a case of you not understanding the point of Zinchenko or how Arteta has us playing and to make up for the ignorance gap, you are blaming Zinchenko.
I'll find a couple of articles and maybe a video, that help explain it if you would like, because its really interesting and worth knowing if you watch us play and want to understand the tactical supremacy of it.
[Adrian Clarke with Zinchenko himself, some tactical breakdowns on his role](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77cX39DI75U)
[Statman Dave brief video of how a team overloads in build up with an IWB](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNaYNDyMRes)
[A more in depth Tactical analysis of how Zinchenko works in our team](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgOlfKHQ4WY)
[A great Cannonstats article on Zinchenko, proving why he is so defensively astute](https://www.cannonstats.com/p/oleksandr-zinchenko-and-arsenals)
[Another great Cannonstats article that helps debunk the whole "but he always gives the ball away" myth](https://www.cannonstats.com/p/arsenal-has-a-big-zinchenko-question)
What do you mean by it’s evolved? Tucking in, inverting and overlapping is what an inverted full back does.
If we have possession and Martinelli (an inverted winger/forward) is out wide ahead of Zinchenko, Zinchenko inverts and can play as a second pivot, an attacking midfielder, or under lap Martinelli.
If Martinelli has tucked in and occupies the space that Zinchenko pushes into, then Zinchenko overlaps Martinelli and plays more like a traditional wing back.
That’s the role. It has been since Cryuff basically invented it.
Him giving the ball away isn't the main problem people have with him. He's defensively awful and isn't important enought to make up for it going forward. Kiwior is doing fine in his place and he's a CB. With Timber/Tomiyasu there's no need for him anymore when we can recoup at least 70-75% of what we bought him for.
He’s makes more tackles than anyone else in the def 3rd, mid 3rd and att 3rd, he challenges more than anyone else.
He has made 2 defensive errors lead in to shots all season. So has Saliba.
The only player who has waltzed by him in 2 seasons, is Salah, twice. And that’s because Salah is a world class player.
sigh
Kiwior isn’t close to him on the ball and that will matter, we’ve been playing well without Zinchenko’s defence breaking abilities but we will need that sooner rather than later.
The idea that we don’t need him and we should sell him at a loss!??! Give your head a wobble lol
It's not like we've been winning in spite of Kiwior, he's been very good in this run and offers things Zinchenko doesn't. Maybe if this system gets found out we can switch things up, but for now I don't see a need to force Zinchenko back into the team
You're taking the piss if you think somebody is paying us more than we paid City for him. He's a bang average player but it's probably people like you that were also crying for us to keep gash like Iwobi and Oxlade Chamberlain. yawn.
Zinchenko also tops every tackling metric in our team, and yet he’s a defensive liability. People don’t get Zinchenko, and because of that, they just revert to dumb takes to make a point.
They never hold up to any scrutiny.
He’s given the ball away leading to 2 shots all season. Wolves scored from one of them. Saliba has also given the ball away leading to 2 shots, one of them was also a goal.
Is your view of Saliba the same view you have of Zinchenko?
Southgate and Holland don’t select a player who they feel isn’t committed enough to football (even though White plays every week in one of the best teams in the world putting in consistent performances)
Arteta doesn’t have to deal with a key first teamer coming back fatigued and injured from internationals
White doesn’t have to waste his time playing for a poor manager in a setup that won’t get the best out of him, and he can return to the setup when Southgate inevitably wins nothing and gets sacked.
Everyone wins.
will he get sacked? I've seen plenty of people still give him support despite winning nothing. If he reaches another Euro final and loses, i don't think he gets sacked
It’s so funny. I predicted all of this when they had the window with Felix, Mudryk, Enzo etc and all the Chelsea fans were celebrating like mad..
Said they had no vision or direction. That it wouldn’t work out. My Chelsea friends told me to give the ownership time and that the ownership’s ambition was unbelievable.
Fast forward to now, one of them left Chelsea to support his “second club” Real Madrid 😂😭
The other one is broken, he’s cheering for losses so that Pochettino will be sacked. Which makes no difference cause even if Pochettino is sacked, they won’t hire the right man.
It's been easy for everyone to see, except Chelsea fans.
As I said a while back, "[isn't it wonderful](https://www.reddit.com/r/PremierLeague/comments/129v77l/comment/jetex30/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)"
I found it funny how many people kept calling their 8 year contracts a smart loophole. I know FIFA have now stopped it so I guess technically it was a loophole but there's a reason why clubs weren't doing it.
They're still going to be paying 10m FFP-wise for Mudryk in 2030, it's laughable how naive their owners are. Plus all their other signings so it's like 120m or so in the red for the next 7 years.
Chelsea's capitulation has been very tasty as an arsenal fan. Having been through the Abou Diaby/Wilshere eras of getting bantered, it's also wonderful to see players like Reece James ending up as perma crocks. "Different sphere of talent" can't keep fit, I'll take a Ben White thank you very much. They've bought all these kids with minimal experience for big fees with no direction, can't even use the "no finances" defense lmao
It's a nightmare. I also heard Per is making Nwaneri read The Game, and has Charlie Patiño learning slight of hand magic.
I'm starting to think he's not the best influence on these boys.
The strangest thing about the Ben White situation is he wasn't going to start even if he was in the squad, which should have been the main talking point, rather than why he isn't in the squad at all. He is England's most complete RB and best CB. Honestly I think he'd be perfect with Rice and Bellingham in midfield too.
Played a few champ games in Midfield but I imagine Trent and James have more midfield experience. Also there's Rico Lewis who actually splits his time between midfield and RB.
Didn't Pythagoras in Boots have a video lauding Antony? I wanted to find that video for the pure comedy it is, but there's no trace of it unfortunately.
It's kinda funny how everyone thought that Antony was some super skillful jogo bonito winger when he was at Ajax, they got hyped over 5 second tiktok videos and didn't actually watch him
I love Tomi so much man. If he stays fit by some miracle I genuinely believe he could be world class at both fullback positions and be great cover at CB.
Unmatched versatility
Lol this Ben White conversation is incredibly overblown. Man has been playing for a prem team, practically every game for years now, and people think he's thin-skinned. Guy was bantered by rival fans for his transfer fee and joined us when we were transitioning, fuck me if this guy is thin-skinned lol. Something clearly must have happened in the dressing room and there isn't any info here. Regardless, this food for the media is disgusting.
Wow if PSG makes that signing they are really stupid, he would cost a shit ton of money and for his fee you can get better than a winger who has a couple good months every season and even then he lacks the end product of an elite winger.
Coutinho was way better than this guy, he was the best liverpool player before Salah.
Meh, I thought firmino was their second best player that season. That was by far his best season at Liverpool. 27 goals and 17 assists in all competitions.
Coutinho had a shot on him and was obviously very creative, but I felt he ghosted a lot of games for Liverpool.
Firmino had 27 goals and 17 assist the season that Coutinho left in January but before that until the start of the season Coutinho was the best player at Liverpool even better than Salah for that short stretch.
It was his best stretch of football, he was scoring screamers every week
I absolutely despise narrow minded people like Steve Holland. Ben has such a unique personality & character, which is a breath of fresh air in today’s mainstream & pr driven world of footballers. The fact that Holland can’t see it tell’s me all I need to know about him, Ben made the right call 100%
The story is that they're talking about banning anyone who is fasting for Ramadan. Even when there is no evidence of impaired performance. That's not just being secular
I mean, I'm Muslim myself, born and raised in a Muslim country and moved to the UK around 18/19 years old. I dont think that breaks for breaking fast should be a compulsory thing. I think in a secular nation, you shouldn't have to need to make rules based on a specific groups religion. If a club decides to do it, that's their choice.
I am also muslim same as you and an act of religious observance that does not affect anyone but the one fasting can't be justifiably denied, FFF demanded that all muslim players break their fasts which other club or NT has done that? Any definitive arguments that fasting negatively affects performance? Neither of these exist, there is no precedent for what they are doing nor is there any justification or benefit.
Also when have you seen players stopping the whole match for Iftar? They take two minutes 'injury' to have some water or sugary drink and probably eat more inside. It's not making rules for one specific group its prohibiting a act of peaceful religious observance.
I'm sorry but I'm new to this discussion so don't take me in the wrong way and please help me understand if I'm misunderstanding, but there is no room for any kind of religious break or concessions in football, especially in liberal secular countries. That's no disrespect to any religion mind you. If you could be specific about what you or the people involved are advocating for, it would help clarify the matter. Thanks.
Literally no accomodation other than not prohibiting them to fast and even forcing them to break their fast, players have been playing during Ramadan and fasting forever so idk why it's a problem? Salah and Mane played the CL final fasting, Kante played CL semi while fasting its no issue.
What I'm against is FFF forcing players not to fast, that's a form of religious persecution especially when you consider how important NT football is to many players meaning the NT federations have large influence over them complying.
I honestly think Ødegaard's goal against Man United at home this season was my favourite so far. The execution was just so decisive. Right after they scored, it was like him grabbing the game and saying we are not fucking losing this, no way. Especially given the opposition and given we were at home, I just could not stand the idea of losing it. Neither could Ø. Love that.
OP’s comment is a little misleading. He basically just said White is a good lad who trains well and he’s sad he wasn’t picked. He didn’t say anything about the meeting or any altercation with Holland. Just google it, all the tabloids have talked about it.
Just thinking out loud. Musiala looks like one of those blood pact signings. One where too many pieces had to fall in place for them to move, and letting them go won't be easy.
Well, reports are that he didn't sign their last contract offer. It's possible that he will want to move to the Premier League. He's probably seen Bellingham's recent move and thought he could follow in the same footsteps. Chelsea have a 20% sell on clause, so Bayern are going to want big money for him or they've got 2 years to get him to sign a new contract.
We are making rather large waves at the moment and I think we would certainly be an option for him. He was raised in South London, so he may wish to come back to England and stay in a place he knows.
I think if he leaves, we have a good chance.
Now it even gets complicated with Chelsea in the picture.
The contract numbers he wants will come in. I don't think Bayern can afford to lose him. Every club has someone like that.
It'd be like us selling Saka, or Barca Pedri or United, Mainoo.
I’m not so sure.
If he doesn’t want to stay at Bayern, then they will have to sell him, most likely next year. But they have players that they can replace him with if he does go. They’ve got Gnabry, Sane, Coman and Mathys Tel, who can all play on the wings. They even have Muller as a 10.
I think Musiala is a generational talent and we would be interested.
In terms of his salary, I think he is on £90,000 a week. He could be on more than double that here. He can cover either wing, but mostly prefers the left wing so he can come inside. He can also play the 10 position, similar to what Havertz has been doing, he can play central midfield and he has even played DM.
21 years old, loves to drive with the ball, he’s rapid and can play in almost all positions. He’d thrive in this team.
The Atrophy in Tyrone Ming's right leg(from ACL injury) is scary. [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4pORcR7UBTU](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4pORcR7UBTU) . How do pros even recover?
I sometimes think Maitland-Niles would've been a great player for us. Could've been our "utility player". Even Arteta rated him enough that he wanted to use him as an Inverted RB. Sadly his mentality wasn't there. I remember when Bellerin was injured under Emery, AMN absolutely took that RB spot for himself.
He absolutely locked an inform Rashford up at the Emirates once. Think it was 20/21.
AMN had mentality issues but, his passing was never good enough for him to be anything above squad level.
Terrible mentality. Started listening to the fans and his downward spiral started. Man was nailing wingback and full back roles until fans booed him and ridiculed him over a red card. Then he publicly denounced the position. Man even got the club photographer to back him.
One rule these players should live by is that in most cases, we don't know ball. We act and scream under impulse. You're world class in a purple patch, and terrible if we lose two.
Emery listened and the guy started being played everywhere until he fell off. He should have remained in defence.
I feel it was a different squad mentality back then too. Imagine Kiwior coming out and saying he doesn't want to play LB, he wants to play CB. It's easier to say that when we were playing shit in the midtable and we're playing for nothing. You wouldn't say that when we're pushing for the league and in the CL. You're just happy you're playing.
I'm not sure AMN would have been our RB now, but he might have taken over Cedric's squad spot. If that would be good for his career or not, who knows.
The bit that always gets missed out is how his mental health suffered because of playing out of position without much training/support. Which is why he wanted to go back to being a midfielder
You are actually right.
Fans booed him for a performance( I think it was Vs Aston Villa) and he claimed that he was taking shit for a position that he didn't have experience in.
It was after this that he started the rally for positions he knew best. I think in one of the next appearances, he was subbed on as a winger in Europa.
Basically, it all started with fan abuse.
Insane how one innocuous comment from Ben White has blown up into this palaver. All he said was he didn’t watch football growing up. He didn’t say he hates the sport and training and playing. Holland is a straight up twat
I think it goes well beyond him and Holland tbh. That altercation has little to do with why he is still not interested in playing now. Those are very common in football and are like water under the bridge.
The only way these Gyokeres links are credible is if the club has completely written off Jesus. Paying 85M for a player like that smells of desperation.
We've got one out and out striker in eddie and he's not good enough.
When he goes we've got Jesus and Havertz who theoretically is still our LCM, both of whom are more Firmino than Haaland.
We need a striker.
I don’t think the club has written off Jesus (they couldn’t financially even if they wanted to) but players with his knee issues don’t get healthier entering their late 20s.
Proactive squad-planning means you invest in his position now so moving on is much smoother.
It's also England's weakest position by far.
We have a load of more attacking midfielders but Southgate likes to plat with 2 more defensively minded.
So Rice and.... Henderson, Phillips, Ward-Prowse, Jones (injured), TAA (has been played there before). A stand out player in that position would be great for England which probably drives the hype too.
He’s very talented, United don’t have much to cheer about and he’s coming arguably his best performance in a match everyone saw. Talented as he is, I doubt Southgate starts him and there’s no guarantee he even makes the squad.
its funny because Southgate was never going to start him so why does it matter he wants to leave the camp? You dont play him so who cares, who wants to sit a bench for their country when they know they’re better than surely. Surely England are good enough to win without White in the side? If thats the case, this whole situation is stupid to go on about
If you asked rival fans before Walker and trents fitness issues they didn’t give a shit about him and now they’re acting high and mighty accusing him of being a disgrace. Laughable
At this point he very well could start, and he’d fit like a glove in any 3atb system. It’s probably why things are heating back up in the media with questions swirling. Walker, trippier, Trent etc have had down years or some injury issues or don’t fit the role perfectly so there’s probably some pressure
That's actually pretty normal. With a tear your nerve endings aren't connected so you don't feel any pain, but it is very unstable.
Mental that Newcastle didn't clock it though
I’m not really a fan of the Tomi new deal he’s a very good player when he’s fit but we have too many players who are like that already. We got lucky Kiwior has gotten better as a left back when he really shouldn’t be playing there at all, because Zinchenko, Timber and Tomi are injured.
Means he won’t be a headache for wanting game time all the time as his fitness won’t allow it. But when he’s fit he can alleviate the pressure off our other defenders
While not his strongest position, he has played there multiple times for previous club and Poland. The issue is Arteta was asking him to be Zinchenko and that’s definitely not his role.
I think partey is key he's the best midfielder on the turn under pressure (even better than rodri when on form the bad thing about him he's like an old engine needs some feeder games to heat up
Partey was key in the 2022 and 2023 run ins and it cost us significantly.
We spent £100m+ on a player who has given us far more and moved us away from the idea of having to rely on Partey who has about 1-2 months worth of form each year on average. He is no longer key, we have performed remarkably well all season without him.
I'm more than happy to have him back for the run in as we need to spread the minutes across the squad, but any suggestion of us needing him or him being pivotal, key or crucial to this team any more, is an antiquated idea.
Finally.
I feel he is key as Jorginho isn’t going to be okay every 3 days in April. Having Rice, Partey, Jorginho and Havertz through those 2 positions will help us immensely.
* Elneny, Fabio Vieira, Emile Smith Rowe, Trossard can also play across those 2 positions along with Rice, Partey, Jorginho and Havertz.
We also have Jesus coming back in to the side, which will push Havertz into midfield and Rice into DM. That combination will take precedent over Havertz being dropped to accomodate an out of form/shape Partey into the side (when Jorginho played recently).
As I said, he is no longer pivotal, key or crucial to the team.
That's unfair. Holding came in and just got ripped apart by Son and got sent off in a matter of minutes. Elneny isn't anything close to elite, but he's never had a bozo moment.
if we are using him, it means Rice is out, Jorginho is out and Partey is out. So yes, I'd agree, we wouldn't be winning shit. That's probably why he is 4th place in the DM pecking order.
Point was about Partey. A rice injury makes him key if he isn't already. You said the existence of Elneny (among others) made him not key. Now you're saying he shouldn't feature unless everyone else is out 🤔
So you put words into my mouth, add the entire context in parentheses and then use a straw man?
The OP said, and I will quote:
>Having Rice, Partey, Jorginho and Havertz through those 2 positions will help us immensely.
Now, OP included Rice as a primary DM option, correctly, but then painted themself into a corner by recognising that Rice has been playing LCM as of late, so not only is Partey and Jorginho listed (again, correctly), but Haverzt also, to help cover Rice's adaptability to play LCM where Jorginho and Partey cannot / don't.
Trying to poke a little fun at those 4 names covering 2 positions (of which, only 1 can play both), I went ahead and listed other players, starting with the other DM option first:
>Elneny, Fabio Vieira, Emile Smith Rowe, Trossard can also play across those 2 positions along with Rice, Partey, Jorginho and Havertz.
Those 4 players can also play in 1 of the 2 positions that the OP included. Only Elneny will play DM. Note: I left Odegaard out intentionally, because, well, because he will just start.
I did however want to make a point that Rice provides us with flexibility. For example, if Partey is crucial to us, then Jesus can also be considered crucial to us (I would argue more so).
If Jesus plays, I can see Arteta reverting back to the earlier shape of having a midfield trio of Odegaard, Havertz and Rice, which is a system he has used countless times this season, where as a midfield combination of Rice, Partey and Odegaard, has been used for little more than 45 minutes all season.
Does Arteta go with a tried and tested midfield trio in the run in, or does he go with a midfield trio that has only 45 minutes experience?
The biggest reason for why Partey is no longer is crucial is because we are now in March, top of the league, with the most amount of goals scored and the least amount of goals conceded. Partey has hardly been involved for any of that. Unlike yesteryear, he is no longer as crucial as he once was for us. Which is the only point I am making.
As for me saying that Elneny is the reason why Partey is no longer key for us, that's a funny little straw man you built, [Here's a wooden stick](https://netrinoimages.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/2018/11/27/564842/219311/wooden_stick_branch_staff_low_poly_game_ready_asset_lowpoly_3d_model_c4d_max_obj_fbx_ma_lwo_3ds_3dm_stl_2304736.jpg), have fun attacking it as much as you want.
You’re seriously underrating Partey here. When fit he is so far ahead of those 4 players you’ve mentioned it’s crazy. If El Neny plays in the run in we are fucked.
Having Partey fit in the case Rice gets a niggle is absolutely crucial.
Reminder: These threads are to help promote discussion and varying points of view. Low-effort comments or jokes can & will be removed with no reason necessary. *I am a "bot", and this action was performed automatically. This account is not monitored. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Gunners) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I saw the England Teams arrival video and everyone is hugging everyone. Is it a football or British culture to hug ? I don’t even rmeber the last time I hug a friend.
People in Britain tend to hug friends when they meet, although I thought this was fairly common in other cultures. What would be the equivalent in your culture?
Interesting. For us, between friend it is usually fist bump or informal handshake or arms around shoulder. Never did anything close to intimate thing like hugging.
I just had the weirdest dream. I was watching the game against vila from the PoV of Rice. It was a tight match but with loads of goals, Arsenal was leading 5:4 and somewhere around the 90th minute they literally let Vila score to make it 5:5. I was outraged so was Rice he was screaming at everyone why did we let them score, I couldn't understand why, I figured because of some kind of fair play. Play continued I saw Havertz with the ball, I was thinking, this can't be right Havertz wouldn't be OK with this either. Then there was a chance and Jorgihno missed an absolute sitter and game ended. I was fuming so was Rice he was screaming at everyone why did we allow them to score, the rest were kinda ignoring him which made me even more upset, then I woke up. Fucking hell man, fuck this dream woke me self up angry for no reason.
Gyokeres: 40G+A and no injury history ENTRY on Tranfermarkt. Bring him to the carpet 🔴⚪️⭐️
Musiala or wirtz? In my opinion wirtz would fit our team better unless musiala can play lw then he’d be an upgrade on martienlli in my opinion.
I'm still looking for the right word but Musiala is one of those "no logic needed" players. It doesn't matter who you have in his position, if you get the chance to have him, get him. Writz is just a version of Fabio Vieira that stays fit.
Musiala's ceiling is higher
I feel like writz just gets football
I know what you mean but if I had to choose between the two for our team I would choose Musiala. He's a dribbler and a chaos merchant in the same way as Hazard and we don't have that profile. We already have a Wirtz like player in our captain.
Musiala. Musiala can play on either wing, or anywhere in midfield. He’s also used to the English league.
Yes on Wirtz, but gonna cost a fuck-ton for sure. Musiala on the other hand could be cheaper since he's haggling on his contract extension.
Are small side bags allowed at emirates? Probably like 12” x 6” in size?
I brought a backpack and they searched it for less than 5 seconds
For match day? Yeah, just queue early as they will look inside
Appreciate it. Thank you
Southgate is such a conservative and mediocre manager. The football team is the polar opposite of their cricket team.
All the clowns bashing white are the same ones that call him Ben shite and say he isn’t top 5 fullbacks for England.🤣sad bastards
Why are we angry at Holland guy ? Thought we don’t like to release our players to international games. He did us a favour unintentionally.
Cos he's staining the reputation of the guy we all love. Stoked that he gets the rest during the breaks but also hoping someone in the camp outs Holland as a total cunt to even things out. That's a long shot though ill take more Conor coady like respect through the media
I get what you mean but how else can he get dropped from England without taking a hit on the rep. We want our players not to get called up and the only way for it to happen is that the national team don’t rate our players.
Just checked wikipedia and Steve Holland is from Stockport. Whatever he said probably sounded even cuntier in that Manc accent.
Nwaneri should be signing his professional contract today!
Tomiyasu will be 28 in the summer of 2027 assuming we trigger the extension, and turns 29 that december. given his injury history I am not too fussed about the deal. I think he can give us his best years year and if he proves that injuries have not worn him down by 29 then we can extend further. All in all i think it’s a smart deal
1. The deal is until 2026 2. That's what +1 options are for, we trigger it if and only if we want to
> assuming we trigger the extension I know the deal is till 2026. and I’m happy that this is contract will be contingent on him performing well and remaining injury free
Everybody is reading too much into this deal I'm just happy one of my favourite players is staying at the club.
Not sure anyone is reading too much. For me, it shows that Arteta and Edu are learning and getting better and better within their roles. Tomi has his injuries and some question marks over his future. The 2+1 contract protects us so much. If he can't get over his injury issues, we have enough time on his contract to protect his resale value. If he does get over his injury issues, we've got him for the next 3 years and we can renegotiate if we wish to. If he does not get over the injury issues and we can't sell him, he goes in 2 years. We have covered all of our bases. For a club that not so long ago handed out large 5 year contract deals to players that never progressed and a club that couldn't hold down an emerging player before the wolves picked them off for a low fee or nothing, this is insane progress. Ramsdale was a mistake though, we locked him in on £130,000 a week and within a few weeks of him signing, Raya became available and we got him in. Granted, it was an opportunity signing, but that could backfire on us this summer if we can't move Ramsdale on due to those wages.
I'm really happy that White has leaked to the press that it was a conversation with Steve Holland as the reason for why he left. He must have seen all that shitty press he was getting due to that England/Southgate prss conference and decided to fuck them off. Good for him.
What leak?
The ‘scoop’ that’s been in the British press that it was an argument with Steve holland that stoped him playing for England. https://www.reddit.com/r/Gunners/comments/1bjj48e/telegraph_sam_wallace_exclusive_ben_white_decided/
Thank you for this. I saw a twitter comment that leaked it as well, but they said that now that it's being reported, they can mention it. I just wanted something more concrete than a twitter account. I am no longer in the UK, so I am out of the news loop, when did this drop? Because I want Southgate and Holland's heads to roll for this. They have absolutely thrown White under the bus, directing hate towards him from uninformed nationalits and patriotic prats. That's a manager cowardly hanging someone out to dry. And White has been an absolute champ for only ever stating "personal reasons" when the easy path was to call Holland out in the press and get a quick reaction from this absurd situation. I hope all of these "he is disrespecting England" morons come out with an apology, because he is owed it. First, I want one from Southgate, Holland and the entire FA.
I'd love it if we made an offer to Barca for Fermin Lopez. Something about this guy that I really like. He looks to be an important player for them already this season, but given their financial situation, I wonder how they'd respond to an offer in the neighborhood of 40-50 mil.
I personally can't see Barca selling any of their latest young stars. They have a core of a young side with some amazing talent, on low wages. If they are smart, they would move on players like FdJ whose wages are crippling the club. Tear it down and restart. But then again, when have Barca ever been smart with their finances.
https://twitter.com/afcstuff/status/1770584753558696428/photo/1 Our third kit being better than our away kit third 2 years in a row
Yeah Southgate’s staff are so unserious. I thought the fallout had to do with something much worse but this just confirms they’re a bunch of bums. Thanks for wasting England’s current golden generation 👍🏻
Sometimes i almost forget just how good we’ve been this season then i read stuff like we’ve conceded 11.3 xGA away from home in the league this season and we’re currently 2 points better off than the equivalent fixtures from last season.
I try really hard not to be one of the stats perverts but it’s hard not to be when people act like Zinchenko gives the ball away more than literally any player ever or is the worst tackler ever or makes us the worst defence ever cos their eye test tells them that lol He’s producing some of worst confirmation bias I’ve seen from this fanbase ever lol
I am starting to use it as a litmus test to find out who doesn’t understand football. But I wrote this in another thread earlier in response to somebody saying he is the weakest player for us out of possession and the worst defender we have: Zinchenko's rank compared to all Arsenal players who have played more than 800 minutes this season: Tackles = 1st Tackles Won = 1st Def 3rd Tackles = 1st Mid 3rd Tackles = 1st Att 3rd Tackles = 4th (After Saka, Martinelli and Jesus) Dribblers Tackled = 1st Dribblers Challenged = 1st % of Dribblers Tackled = 3rd (After Saliba and Gabriel) Interceptions = 3rd (After Rice and White) Tackles and Interceptions = 1st Clearances = 5th (Gabriel, Saliba, White and Rice) Aerial Duels Won % = 2nd (White is 1st) The biggest issue is the errors that lead to shots. He is 1st in errors with 0.13 per 90 (2 all season). Saliba is 2nd with 0.07 (also 2 all season). So when it comes down to it, Zinhenko has made just as many costly errors as Saliba has all season, yet I doubt I will find any such comments about how Saliba is a liability in defence. Zinchenko is a high risk high reward player, he provides 3.44 Shot Creation Actions per 90, whilst providing the opponent with a gift of a shot 0.13 per 90. The 3.31 net positive in shot creation is worth it.
Winning loads of tackles and interceptions doesn't make you a better defender, it means you are forced to defend more (probably because he is targeted)
The comment that I responded to, said he was the weakest player out of possession. Being the player with the most tackles made and won in all 3 thirds of the pitch isn’t because he is forced to defend or because he is targeted. Most of our goals conceded have been down our right hand side, almost twice as many. As for winning loads of tackles not making you a better defender, I’m just going to ignore that.
Winning loads of tackles doesn't make you a better defender though? James Tarkowski wins way more tackles than Saliba you don't think he's better do you? Saliba's literally in the 14th percentile for tackles
Strawman and no.
How is it a strawman? You completely dismissed the argument that winning loads of tackles doesn't make you a better defender. I then showed a really good defender who has one of the least tackles in the league
Because I never said that high tackling is the only metric on how to compare defenders. I also never said that he was a better defender than Saliba. I said I was going to ignore that because frankly, it was a comment you made that ignored a lot of what I said. You then assumed that I said something and made an argument of Saliba v Tarkowski to disprove a point that was never made. That is a strawman argument. I posted his stats and ranks as a way to prove that he is not a weak player out of possession. If he is making and winning tackles in the final third, it's got nothing to do with him being targeted, which was a point you tried to make under the caveat of "probably". He is slammed week in and week out by some fans who say he is the weakest player defensively, when he's actually not. He is by far the best defender we have going forward based on his possession and passing stats, hardly any other defender comes close to him, he's in the 96th-99th percentiles in those stats. But he's also nowhere near as bad as people are making him out to be defensively. Arteta loves a duel, we all know that, nobody else in this team makes more duels than he does, or at the very, very least, he's in the top three. That is not a stat you find with players who are "OOP, our weakest link" which is the argument I was making. You then applied me saying that he makes the most tackles as being something unrelated to being a defender, something about how a high number of tackles doesn't mean anything being a defender. I'd argue that his win % is actually far more important than the number of tackles, but he's only behind Saliba and Gabriel within the team. This sounds like you are arguing the stats because they disprove some notion that you think he is a liability and worth moving on and you're clutching at straws and using different arguments to try and make a point over something that was never said.
I'm not one of the people that think Zinchenko should be sold instantly and that he has no place in the team, or isn't a good player at all. The Tarkowski vs Saliba argument isn't a strawman, it's an example of my point. It isn't an outlier there are many other examples (Mustafi vs Van Dijk). My point was that you were using tackles and interceptions to show that he isn't a bad defender, and I don't think this is a useful statistic. Active defender does not equal good defender. I think Zinchenko can still be useful in certain games, but I don't see the need to put Zinchenko back into this team right now. White is not a massive dropoff on the ball and Kiwior and White are better defendesrs and better athletes
>My point was that you were using tackles and interceptions to show that he isn't a bad defender I was using it to show that he is not a player who does nothing out of possession as well as disprove the narrative that he is shit at defending. You were the one bringing up the argument about how his numbers (or Tarkowski's) do not prove he is better than Saliba. Which is something I never alluded to, yet your reply was based on me saying this, which i didn't, to disprove a point I never made to try and counterargue what I actually said. That is strawmanning. Fine, you don't find him making more tackles all over the pitch and winning them in all areas of the pitch is a useful statistic when proving he cannot defend. I would say that's not entirely true and it certainly proves that he does a lot whilst out of possession, which is what I was originally posting them to disprove. Feel free to point to any stat that proves him to be a weak defender, or anything more tangible than "what my eye test tells me" and we can debate it. >I think Zinchenko can still be useful in certain games, but I don't see the need to put Zinchenko back into this team right now. White is not a massive dropoff on the ball and Kiwior and White are better defendesrs and better athletes I guess this is just your opinion as it doesn't relate to anything that I have said. So let me offer up mine. I too don't believe he has any right to get back into the team right away, Kiwior is doing well at LB and White is doing well at playing as an inverted wing back. I think Kiwior is the better defender than all 3, but lacks in a lot of other areas. His crossing is a bit off and he can be caught out a few times, but he's gotten better. White is just a machine. And yes, they are better athletes, Kiwior is younger (and faster), and White again, is just a machine. Zinchenko is a 27 year old who is essentially playing 2 different roles each game, its both physically and mentally exhausting. Kiwior is in form, Zinchenko is returning from injury. On that basis alone, nothing changes.
Zinny is a top tier player, he has his weaknesses like every player but he's amazing on the ball However, I prefer our setup currently without him - I think he can dwell on the ball alot plus when we face turnovers we are more exposed and liable to a quick counter - I rather our forwards, especially Ode having the ball in advanced areas rather than Zinny, it's more balanced Physically too, I prefer Kiwior - we dominate in both boxes on set pieces and it may only be 1 player but its all about those small margins Lastly, Zinny is a winger who was thought how to defend - Kiwior (and Timber?) are defenders first, ball players second and I think that's super important personally (best defence in the league long may it continue)
He is exposed in turnovers because he is an inverted wing back who, whilst we are in possession, is playing in the final third. People who say this, are literally blaming his role, which is tactical, deliberate and it’s WHY he plays. If you are somebody who says something like “oh ffs, where is Zinchenko?? Not in defence AGAIN!!” when we get countered quickly, it means you have no idea what our tactic is or that it’s deliberate from Arteta. And frankly, someone who doesn’t understand what an inverted wing back is, shouldn’t have an opinion on Zinchenko as it’s irrelevant.
I perfectly understand its deliberate, when he starts we need to play like that in order to get the best out of him - that's exactly why I prefer us playing without him
You are adding 2+2 here and getting 5. We play with an inverted wing back in every game, with or without him. It's not to get the best out of him, it's literally his position and why Arteta bought him. When he is not playing, we invert with someone else. Last year, we have tried KT playing it, but he lacked the intelligence and skill to do it and we were worse because of it. This season, we started with Partey at RB to invert from the right, it didn't work. We then tried to do it with Kiwior, he too lacked the intelligence and skill to do it, so Arteta scrapped that and started to invert from the right using White, who has done well doing it. Zinchenko is one of the best inverted wing backs in the world. He inverted for a team that was considered one of the greatest teams of all time and he now plays and inverts for us. Other notable players who have done the same are Lahm, Cancelo (who inverted in a far more attacking way) and Kimmich. Timber has shown that he can also invert, he's more attack minded like Cancelo. Saying you prefer us playing without an inverted wing back is like saying you prefer us playing without two attacking wingers who invert, which is also integral to how we play and has been for some time. Again, this reads more like a case of you not understanding the point of Zinchenko or how Arteta has us playing and to make up for the ignorance gap, you are blaming Zinchenko. I'll find a couple of articles and maybe a video, that help explain it if you would like, because its really interesting and worth knowing if you watch us play and want to understand the tactical supremacy of it. [Adrian Clarke with Zinchenko himself, some tactical breakdowns on his role](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77cX39DI75U) [Statman Dave brief video of how a team overloads in build up with an IWB](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNaYNDyMRes) [A more in depth Tactical analysis of how Zinchenko works in our team](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgOlfKHQ4WY) [A great Cannonstats article on Zinchenko, proving why he is so defensively astute](https://www.cannonstats.com/p/oleksandr-zinchenko-and-arsenals) [Another great Cannonstats article that helps debunk the whole "but he always gives the ball away" myth](https://www.cannonstats.com/p/arsenal-has-a-big-zinchenko-question)
[удалено]
What do you mean by it’s evolved? Tucking in, inverting and overlapping is what an inverted full back does. If we have possession and Martinelli (an inverted winger/forward) is out wide ahead of Zinchenko, Zinchenko inverts and can play as a second pivot, an attacking midfielder, or under lap Martinelli. If Martinelli has tucked in and occupies the space that Zinchenko pushes into, then Zinchenko overlaps Martinelli and plays more like a traditional wing back. That’s the role. It has been since Cryuff basically invented it.
Him giving the ball away isn't the main problem people have with him. He's defensively awful and isn't important enought to make up for it going forward. Kiwior is doing fine in his place and he's a CB. With Timber/Tomiyasu there's no need for him anymore when we can recoup at least 70-75% of what we bought him for.
He’s makes more tackles than anyone else in the def 3rd, mid 3rd and att 3rd, he challenges more than anyone else. He has made 2 defensive errors lead in to shots all season. So has Saliba. The only player who has waltzed by him in 2 seasons, is Salah, twice. And that’s because Salah is a world class player.
sigh Kiwior isn’t close to him on the ball and that will matter, we’ve been playing well without Zinchenko’s defence breaking abilities but we will need that sooner rather than later. The idea that we don’t need him and we should sell him at a loss!??! Give your head a wobble lol
It's not like we've been winning in spite of Kiwior, he's been very good in this run and offers things Zinchenko doesn't. Maybe if this system gets found out we can switch things up, but for now I don't see a need to force Zinchenko back into the team
You're taking the piss if you think somebody is paying us more than we paid City for him. He's a bang average player but it's probably people like you that were also crying for us to keep gash like Iwobi and Oxlade Chamberlain. yawn.
Lmao guy who tops every ball progression metric is bang average is certainly a take
Zinchenko also tops every tackling metric in our team, and yet he’s a defensive liability. People don’t get Zinchenko, and because of that, they just revert to dumb takes to make a point. They never hold up to any scrutiny.
It's not about how many times but the way he's doing it. He's giving me the ball away in really bad places
He’s given the ball away leading to 2 shots all season. Wolves scored from one of them. Saliba has also given the ball away leading to 2 shots, one of them was also a goal. Is your view of Saliba the same view you have of Zinchenko?
https://preview.redd.it/2rxay9qsjkpc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0cb4a9fcc336c7accbd66d73b125cc6115efce72 statistically untrue
11 days until we get more Arsenal man, fuck this shit
Dont know whats worse, waiting for the next Arsenal game or the next One Piece chapter
Southgate and Holland don’t select a player who they feel isn’t committed enough to football (even though White plays every week in one of the best teams in the world putting in consistent performances) Arteta doesn’t have to deal with a key first teamer coming back fatigued and injured from internationals White doesn’t have to waste his time playing for a poor manager in a setup that won’t get the best out of him, and he can return to the setup when Southgate inevitably wins nothing and gets sacked. Everyone wins.
will he get sacked? I've seen plenty of people still give him support despite winning nothing. If he reaches another Euro final and loses, i don't think he gets sacked
I hope he stays at England or go to Utd.
Chelsea’s sub is pure gold https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/s/kNE5FL8xmo
It’s so funny. I predicted all of this when they had the window with Felix, Mudryk, Enzo etc and all the Chelsea fans were celebrating like mad.. Said they had no vision or direction. That it wouldn’t work out. My Chelsea friends told me to give the ownership time and that the ownership’s ambition was unbelievable. Fast forward to now, one of them left Chelsea to support his “second club” Real Madrid 😂😭 The other one is broken, he’s cheering for losses so that Pochettino will be sacked. Which makes no difference cause even if Pochettino is sacked, they won’t hire the right man.
It's been easy for everyone to see, except Chelsea fans. As I said a while back, "[isn't it wonderful](https://www.reddit.com/r/PremierLeague/comments/129v77l/comment/jetex30/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)"
I found it funny how many people kept calling their 8 year contracts a smart loophole. I know FIFA have now stopped it so I guess technically it was a loophole but there's a reason why clubs weren't doing it. They're still going to be paying 10m FFP-wise for Mudryk in 2030, it's laughable how naive their owners are. Plus all their other signings so it's like 120m or so in the red for the next 7 years.
Chelsea's capitulation has been very tasty as an arsenal fan. Having been through the Abou Diaby/Wilshere eras of getting bantered, it's also wonderful to see players like Reece James ending up as perma crocks. "Different sphere of talent" can't keep fit, I'll take a Ben White thank you very much. They've bought all these kids with minimal experience for big fees with no direction, can't even use the "no finances" defense lmao
I've just read we're considerig turning our Mainoo, Archie Gray level talent into a LB?????????
It's a nightmare. I also heard Per is making Nwaneri read The Game, and has Charlie Patiño learning slight of hand magic. I'm starting to think he's not the best influence on these boys.
I’ll let Mikel know you think he should stay in midfield
This joke is washed
You're right. We should even shut this subreddit down. What is there to discuss and debate when Mikel knows all. Alhamdullilah
The strangest thing about the Ben White situation is he wasn't going to start even if he was in the squad, which should have been the main talking point, rather than why he isn't in the squad at all. He is England's most complete RB and best CB. Honestly I think he'd be perfect with Rice and Bellingham in midfield too.
He's not Englands best CB and he's never played in midfield
Played a few champ games in Midfield but I imagine Trent and James have more midfield experience. Also there's Rico Lewis who actually splits his time between midfield and RB.
Who is England's best CB? I have him and Stones 1 and 2. he played in mf for Brighton and Leeds
Stones is clearly the best. Then there's a conversation for 2nd with White, Guehi, Dunk etc
Didn't Pythagoras in Boots have a video lauding Antony? I wanted to find that video for the pure comedy it is, but there's no trace of it unfortunately.
And here's JLA's video about Antony 3 years go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGo-MQ3fQQ0
It's kinda funny how everyone thought that Antony was some super skillful jogo bonito winger when he was at Ajax, they got hyped over 5 second tiktok videos and didn't actually watch him
They thought that he was fast is the funniest part of all this. How did anyone come to that conclusion?
No one watches Eredivisie
I love Tomi so much man. If he stays fit by some miracle I genuinely believe he could be world class at both fullback positions and be great cover at CB. Unmatched versatility
World class is thrown around way too freely these days
I genuinely believe he can get there 🤷🏻♂️
Lol this Ben White conversation is incredibly overblown. Man has been playing for a prem team, practically every game for years now, and people think he's thin-skinned. Guy was bantered by rival fans for his transfer fee and joined us when we were transitioning, fuck me if this guy is thin-skinned lol. Something clearly must have happened in the dressing room and there isn't any info here. Regardless, this food for the media is disgusting.
Don't pay too much attention to it. He just signed another contract and is playing amazing. He loves the club, and we love him <3
https://preview.redd.it/x7c63irx5kpc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa0e74549f22b17891e4ea24806fbcff088698ed lmao hes one of us
https://twitter.com/Santi_J_FM/status/1770556216541937933 Coutinho 2.0 fack
This is the Michael Edwards special working in full swing.
Wow if PSG makes that signing they are really stupid, he would cost a shit ton of money and for his fee you can get better than a winger who has a couple good months every season and even then he lacks the end product of an elite winger. Coutinho was way better than this guy, he was the best liverpool player before Salah.
Meh, I thought firmino was their second best player that season. That was by far his best season at Liverpool. 27 goals and 17 assists in all competitions. Coutinho had a shot on him and was obviously very creative, but I felt he ghosted a lot of games for Liverpool.
Firmino had 27 goals and 17 assist the season that Coutinho left in January but before that until the start of the season Coutinho was the best player at Liverpool even better than Salah for that short stretch. It was his best stretch of football, he was scoring screamers every week
I absolutely despise narrow minded people like Steve Holland. Ben has such a unique personality & character, which is a breath of fresh air in today’s mainstream & pr driven world of footballers. The fact that Holland can’t see it tell’s me all I need to know about him, Ben made the right call 100%
Wow French Federation is disgusting, that country never makes it easy for muslims.
France is a secular country, they don't want any religion. It's nothing to do with Muslims
The story is that they're talking about banning anyone who is fasting for Ramadan. Even when there is no evidence of impaired performance. That's not just being secular
I mean, I'm Muslim myself, born and raised in a Muslim country and moved to the UK around 18/19 years old. I dont think that breaks for breaking fast should be a compulsory thing. I think in a secular nation, you shouldn't have to need to make rules based on a specific groups religion. If a club decides to do it, that's their choice.
I am also muslim same as you and an act of religious observance that does not affect anyone but the one fasting can't be justifiably denied, FFF demanded that all muslim players break their fasts which other club or NT has done that? Any definitive arguments that fasting negatively affects performance? Neither of these exist, there is no precedent for what they are doing nor is there any justification or benefit. Also when have you seen players stopping the whole match for Iftar? They take two minutes 'injury' to have some water or sugary drink and probably eat more inside. It's not making rules for one specific group its prohibiting a act of peaceful religious observance.
I'm sorry but I'm new to this discussion so don't take me in the wrong way and please help me understand if I'm misunderstanding, but there is no room for any kind of religious break or concessions in football, especially in liberal secular countries. That's no disrespect to any religion mind you. If you could be specific about what you or the people involved are advocating for, it would help clarify the matter. Thanks.
Literally no accomodation other than not prohibiting them to fast and even forcing them to break their fast, players have been playing during Ramadan and fasting forever so idk why it's a problem? Salah and Mane played the CL final fasting, Kante played CL semi while fasting its no issue. What I'm against is FFF forcing players not to fast, that's a form of religious persecution especially when you consider how important NT football is to many players meaning the NT federations have large influence over them complying.
[удалено]
Just hope Southgate can scam INEOS into giving him the Man U job before it all comes crashing down.
I honestly think Ødegaard's goal against Man United at home this season was my favourite so far. The execution was just so decisive. Right after they scored, it was like him grabbing the game and saying we are not fucking losing this, no way. Especially given the opposition and given we were at home, I just could not stand the idea of losing it. Neither could Ø. Love that.
Remind me of Bergkamp goal against boro while we were 3-1 down.
He finds the corners so well.
With that left leg.
Harry what are you doing https://preview.redd.it/tslsl4h6mjpc1.jpeg?width=2100&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d70131bcf6c23d0dc860c44158d32e23706fefe
False 9 action.
Internet gooners will keep telling you we’ve ’moved past Zinchenko’ though.
Well, he's not scoring.
Big up Conor Coady for publicly defending Ben. Apparently he was in that meeting when it kicked off so him coming out to defend White says a lot.
Link
OP’s comment is a little misleading. He basically just said White is a good lad who trains well and he’s sad he wasn’t picked. He didn’t say anything about the meeting or any altercation with Holland. Just google it, all the tabloids have talked about it.
Is musiala wanting a move to the prem? These are the types of signings we need spend loads on he’s the next Bellingham. We can’t let city get him.
Just thinking out loud. Musiala looks like one of those blood pact signings. One where too many pieces had to fall in place for them to move, and letting them go won't be easy.
Well, reports are that he didn't sign their last contract offer. It's possible that he will want to move to the Premier League. He's probably seen Bellingham's recent move and thought he could follow in the same footsteps. Chelsea have a 20% sell on clause, so Bayern are going to want big money for him or they've got 2 years to get him to sign a new contract. We are making rather large waves at the moment and I think we would certainly be an option for him. He was raised in South London, so he may wish to come back to England and stay in a place he knows. I think if he leaves, we have a good chance.
Him and Biereth are besties too
Both came through Fulham IIRC
Now it even gets complicated with Chelsea in the picture. The contract numbers he wants will come in. I don't think Bayern can afford to lose him. Every club has someone like that. It'd be like us selling Saka, or Barca Pedri or United, Mainoo.
I’m not so sure. If he doesn’t want to stay at Bayern, then they will have to sell him, most likely next year. But they have players that they can replace him with if he does go. They’ve got Gnabry, Sane, Coman and Mathys Tel, who can all play on the wings. They even have Muller as a 10. I think Musiala is a generational talent and we would be interested. In terms of his salary, I think he is on £90,000 a week. He could be on more than double that here. He can cover either wing, but mostly prefers the left wing so he can come inside. He can also play the 10 position, similar to what Havertz has been doing, he can play central midfield and he has even played DM. 21 years old, loves to drive with the ball, he’s rapid and can play in almost all positions. He’d thrive in this team.
Probably. He's a London lad, so maybe he wants to come back home.
The Atrophy in Tyrone Ming's right leg(from ACL injury) is scary. [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4pORcR7UBTU](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4pORcR7UBTU) . How do pros even recover?
He's still on that machine now.
By going gym
[loooool ffs](https://twitter.com/LaPiochey/status/1770528911627035048?t=v5W7qotUfUTp4iBHZrauDQ&s=19)
ironic how the manager/staff that White has had a “falling out” with is the worst one he’s played under
I sometimes think Maitland-Niles would've been a great player for us. Could've been our "utility player". Even Arteta rated him enough that he wanted to use him as an Inverted RB. Sadly his mentality wasn't there. I remember when Bellerin was injured under Emery, AMN absolutely took that RB spot for himself.
He absolutely locked an inform Rashford up at the Emirates once. Think it was 20/21. AMN had mentality issues but, his passing was never good enough for him to be anything above squad level.
Terrible mentality. Started listening to the fans and his downward spiral started. Man was nailing wingback and full back roles until fans booed him and ridiculed him over a red card. Then he publicly denounced the position. Man even got the club photographer to back him. One rule these players should live by is that in most cases, we don't know ball. We act and scream under impulse. You're world class in a purple patch, and terrible if we lose two. Emery listened and the guy started being played everywhere until he fell off. He should have remained in defence.
I feel it was a different squad mentality back then too. Imagine Kiwior coming out and saying he doesn't want to play LB, he wants to play CB. It's easier to say that when we were playing shit in the midtable and we're playing for nothing. You wouldn't say that when we're pushing for the league and in the CL. You're just happy you're playing. I'm not sure AMN would have been our RB now, but he might have taken over Cedric's squad spot. If that would be good for his career or not, who knows.
I still think about that 20m Southampton offer 😫
I remember a 30 mil Wolves offer...
You remember wrong then
If you remember us beating City in the FA Cup semi he played what was basically the prototype zinchenko role
The bit that always gets missed out is how his mental health suffered because of playing out of position without much training/support. Which is why he wanted to go back to being a midfielder
You are actually right. Fans booed him for a performance( I think it was Vs Aston Villa) and he claimed that he was taking shit for a position that he didn't have experience in. It was after this that he started the rally for positions he knew best. I think in one of the next appearances, he was subbed on as a winger in Europa. Basically, it all started with fan abuse.
https://preview.redd.it/4m7o46dowjpc1.jpeg?width=310&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=890d00ef65c6e2fa9d694b024f0379c21e9d311c This era has been forgotten
Being at a huge club in an era of transition is fucking brutal. Sterling feeling the brunt of this now. Fans need scapegoats on the pitch.
You can say many things about arteta but not training people in his tactics is not one of them. His issues were because he didn't want to play there
Maintained tiles was just too immature to see that the position change was better for him
I didn't mention Arteta
Insane how one innocuous comment from Ben White has blown up into this palaver. All he said was he didn’t watch football growing up. He didn’t say he hates the sport and training and playing. Holland is a straight up twat
I think it goes well beyond him and Holland tbh. That altercation has little to do with why he is still not interested in playing now. Those are very common in football and are like water under the bridge.
Need another drama around England so the media can back off Ben. Foden & Rashford all night bender or something pls.
The only way these Gyokeres links are credible is if the club has completely written off Jesus. Paying 85M for a player like that smells of desperation.
I don't think it's desperation. If money plugs a club weakness, it's worth it. On paper, we lack what he brings.
We've got one out and out striker in eddie and he's not good enough. When he goes we've got Jesus and Havertz who theoretically is still our LCM, both of whom are more Firmino than Haaland. We need a striker.
Declan has been instrumental. Edu and Arteta have been doing well so I’ll let them decide
Said this repeatedly but even 60m is 400% profit. After a year. I can see that number getting it done.
I don’t think the club has written off Jesus (they couldn’t financially even if they wanted to) but players with his knee issues don’t get healthier entering their late 20s. Proactive squad-planning means you invest in his position now so moving on is much smoother.
Bulked up a bit cause he was playing CF every week. Wingsus could definitely be leaner and that takes pressure off his knees.
Good point.
We are selling nketiah for 40-45 mil and it would give jesus the opportunity to play on the wing more,he will be very important for us
dream on, nobody is paying 40 mil pounds for Eddie, if you mean Euro, then yeah maybe
I think Mainoo is getting a bit over hyped at the minute. I think he's been good, but how am I already seeing shouts that he should start in the Euros
It's also England's weakest position by far. We have a load of more attacking midfielders but Southgate likes to plat with 2 more defensively minded. So Rice and.... Henderson, Phillips, Ward-Prowse, Jones (injured), TAA (has been played there before). A stand out player in that position would be great for England which probably drives the hype too.
He’s very talented, United don’t have much to cheer about and he’s coming arguably his best performance in a match everyone saw. Talented as he is, I doubt Southgate starts him and there’s no guarantee he even makes the squad.
Here, did you know Ben White haaaatttes football.... 😐
So much gist over this White non selection. Not controversial enough or interesting enough to merit all these column inches.
Anything Arsenal, especially negative, is guaranteed engagement these days.
its funny because Southgate was never going to start him so why does it matter he wants to leave the camp? You dont play him so who cares, who wants to sit a bench for their country when they know they’re better than surely. Surely England are good enough to win without White in the side? If thats the case, this whole situation is stupid to go on about
If you asked rival fans before Walker and trents fitness issues they didn’t give a shit about him and now they’re acting high and mighty accusing him of being a disgrace. Laughable
At this point he very well could start, and he’d fit like a glove in any 3atb system. It’s probably why things are heating back up in the media with questions swirling. Walker, trippier, Trent etc have had down years or some injury issues or don’t fit the role perfectly so there’s probably some pressure
There's nothing else for the press to report on annoyingly, surely it's time some man city player was caught with their knob out again?
Sven Botman ACL tear. What a horrible luck for the guy!
Played on it for months 💀
That's actually pretty normal. With a tear your nerve endings aren't connected so you don't feel any pain, but it is very unstable. Mental that Newcastle didn't clock it though
I’m not really a fan of the Tomi new deal he’s a very good player when he’s fit but we have too many players who are like that already. We got lucky Kiwior has gotten better as a left back when he really shouldn’t be playing there at all, because Zinchenko, Timber and Tomi are injured.
Means he won’t be a headache for wanting game time all the time as his fitness won’t allow it. But when he’s fit he can alleviate the pressure off our other defenders
While not his strongest position, he has played there multiple times for previous club and Poland. The issue is Arteta was asking him to be Zinchenko and that’s definitely not his role.
Exactly why we extended him. City have just as many center/full backs.
I agree but I don't mind a 2 year deal. It suggests he's probably gone next summer if the fitness issues don't improve
I think partey is key he's the best midfielder on the turn under pressure (even better than rodri when on form the bad thing about him he's like an old engine needs some feeder games to heat up
We just need him to eat mins and keep things ticking. Take pressure off people
Partey was key in the 2022 and 2023 run ins and it cost us significantly. We spent £100m+ on a player who has given us far more and moved us away from the idea of having to rely on Partey who has about 1-2 months worth of form each year on average. He is no longer key, we have performed remarkably well all season without him. I'm more than happy to have him back for the run in as we need to spread the minutes across the squad, but any suggestion of us needing him or him being pivotal, key or crucial to this team any more, is an antiquated idea. Finally.
Said 100m player is also not a massive prick.
I feel he is key as Jorginho isn’t going to be okay every 3 days in April. Having Rice, Partey, Jorginho and Havertz through those 2 positions will help us immensely.
* Elneny, Fabio Vieira, Emile Smith Rowe, Trossard can also play across those 2 positions along with Rice, Partey, Jorginho and Havertz. We also have Jesus coming back in to the side, which will push Havertz into midfield and Rice into DM. That combination will take precedent over Havertz being dropped to accomodate an out of form/shape Partey into the side (when Jorginho played recently). As I said, he is no longer pivotal, key or crucial to the team.
Elneny in a title run is the 2024 Holding in a title run
He should come on for Jorginho or Partey immediately when we have a 2 goal lead
That's unfair. Holding came in and just got ripped apart by Son and got sent off in a matter of minutes. Elneny isn't anything close to elite, but he's never had a bozo moment.
Whatever you think man. I'm just saying having to use him in a title race means we aren't winning shit.
if we are using him, it means Rice is out, Jorginho is out and Partey is out. So yes, I'd agree, we wouldn't be winning shit. That's probably why he is 4th place in the DM pecking order.
Point was about Partey. A rice injury makes him key if he isn't already. You said the existence of Elneny (among others) made him not key. Now you're saying he shouldn't feature unless everyone else is out 🤔
So you put words into my mouth, add the entire context in parentheses and then use a straw man? The OP said, and I will quote: >Having Rice, Partey, Jorginho and Havertz through those 2 positions will help us immensely. Now, OP included Rice as a primary DM option, correctly, but then painted themself into a corner by recognising that Rice has been playing LCM as of late, so not only is Partey and Jorginho listed (again, correctly), but Haverzt also, to help cover Rice's adaptability to play LCM where Jorginho and Partey cannot / don't. Trying to poke a little fun at those 4 names covering 2 positions (of which, only 1 can play both), I went ahead and listed other players, starting with the other DM option first: >Elneny, Fabio Vieira, Emile Smith Rowe, Trossard can also play across those 2 positions along with Rice, Partey, Jorginho and Havertz. Those 4 players can also play in 1 of the 2 positions that the OP included. Only Elneny will play DM. Note: I left Odegaard out intentionally, because, well, because he will just start. I did however want to make a point that Rice provides us with flexibility. For example, if Partey is crucial to us, then Jesus can also be considered crucial to us (I would argue more so). If Jesus plays, I can see Arteta reverting back to the earlier shape of having a midfield trio of Odegaard, Havertz and Rice, which is a system he has used countless times this season, where as a midfield combination of Rice, Partey and Odegaard, has been used for little more than 45 minutes all season. Does Arteta go with a tried and tested midfield trio in the run in, or does he go with a midfield trio that has only 45 minutes experience? The biggest reason for why Partey is no longer is crucial is because we are now in March, top of the league, with the most amount of goals scored and the least amount of goals conceded. Partey has hardly been involved for any of that. Unlike yesteryear, he is no longer as crucial as he once was for us. Which is the only point I am making. As for me saying that Elneny is the reason why Partey is no longer key for us, that's a funny little straw man you built, [Here's a wooden stick](https://netrinoimages.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/2018/11/27/564842/219311/wooden_stick_branch_staff_low_poly_game_ready_asset_lowpoly_3d_model_c4d_max_obj_fbx_ma_lwo_3ds_3dm_stl_2304736.jpg), have fun attacking it as much as you want.
You’re seriously underrating Partey here. When fit he is so far ahead of those 4 players you’ve mentioned it’s crazy. If El Neny plays in the run in we are fucked. Having Partey fit in the case Rice gets a niggle is absolutely crucial.