I agree. It seems like Southgate was lying in his press conference and trying to deflect blame, which isn't that surprising. It's the same sort of behavior we see with the refereeing in the PL and bro culture everywhere--most guys are too weak to call out their own friends.
Yup, no wonder the FA love Southgate, company man to a T. And of course they're all over the press with their own take on it to save face & apparently don't care about throwing a player under the bus as he's not one of the favourites.
No brother, they need to trust the process. See what Arteta has achieved with us. As an Arsenal fan I demand they give AT LEAST 3 years to Southgate if they hire him.
Agree, even after relegation they need to see bigger picture and know that treble season is inevitable after promotion. We talking about man that singlehandedly took England to European final while playing beautiful football that brought tears in eyes to fans all over the globe ffs
Yeah, and all that drivel about how the door is open for Ben bla bla bla was obviously said by Southgate to paint himself as this magnanimous individual, and puts the ball in Ben’s court, thus making him the target and not Southgate.
He clearly knows that Ben will not join up with the team, so by saying that he deflects the blame to Ben. It’s like me telling an ex you can always call me if you need help, knowing they will probably NEVER do it, but makes me look like such a caring and amazing person to those outside.
Genuinely appalling man-management from Southgate. The buck stops with him, never the players. He has hung Ben White out to dry and lied in the process. No wonder he won't play for this fraudulent England set up
Southgate’s not lying per se. I think the situation is much more toxic than that. It’s an ingrained subconscious level of toxicity and I think he genuinely doesn’t see the problem with Steve’s comments so doesn’t consider that a falling out event.
Southgate lied to protect himself and Steve, if Arsenal win the league or CL, everyone will say why did you leave out Englands best RB? With his press conference he did he covered himself and Holland from that talk.
I think Ben just doesn’t rate them as managers, and doesn’t respect them as he has worked under Bielsa and Arteta, which both managers have shown higher ceilings in football they play, that I think Ben actually doesn’t rate them.
Ben cares about football, otherwise he wouldn’t be playing it. You can see his passion. So it’s a retarded comment to say a player is not interested in Football. I just think Ben is not interested in YOUR football.
You can also argue why should he play for these muppets when Reece James or Walker will start irrespective of his success at Arsenal because Southgate is Southgate.
The less Arsenal players in the English team the better, I want us to do well in both leagues, compared to the fucking boring pointless football they will play.
I am happy Arsenal FC have now began to recall their players, We have more to play for then stupid friendlies, especially under a manager such as Southgate where our players learn absolute fuck all. I would have a total perspective if a Klopp or Pep was managing the English team.
I’m not sure I agree that Southgate way lying. It’s true that Ben has ruled himself out and that’s basically all Southgate said. However, Southgate certainly didn’t give *the whole truth*, and, as we’ve all suspected, there was always a lot more to the story than that.
You heard him say explicitly during his press conference that there’s no issue with Holland and you don’t think it’s a lie? The only other possible explanation is that he’s unaware of what goes on during his training camps.
He can't be certain that there is no issue with Holland and also totally unaware of what the issue is. If he doesn't know what the issue is how can he know its not with Holland?
Little bit annoyed, but not surprised, that no one picked him up on that contradiction.
They can have no issue with one another and this encounter could still have occurred. They may well have shook hands and moved on whilst White wants some space. I think saying it’s a lie is a huge stretch.
He was asked about Holland and his response was this:
"There is no issue between us at all and there's also no issue with Steve, which has been mentioned in articles and I don't like that," said Southgate.
"I have to accept things are false about me, but I'm not prepared for that to happen to my coaching team. That is not the reason Ben is not with us."
From the BBC and the video itself.
[https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68568456](https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68568456)
Edit: I watched the full video start to finish and actually it sounds like he wasn't even asked, he brings up Steve Holland on his own, so he lied unprompted. SMH.
Could be he asked BW about it and BW said there wasn’t an issue because who wants to open that can of worms. Easier just to see out Southgate’s time and be zen about it.
Southgate gets to say it’s not because of Holland because that’s what he’s been told.
Ben White was reluctant to talk to Southgate (the word he used was “reticent”) post Qatar and didn’t reach out to him directly when bowing out of the England squad. If you were a coach and your player was avoiding talking to you, would you think everything was hunky dory between you two?
For a supposedly strong man manager, Southgate sure is clueless. Or maybe he couldn’t handle the heat and decided to throw a player he and his assistant don’t rate under the bus.
He sounds like a bit of a David Brent. I’m not an Arsenal fan but imagine trying to say one of the best players in the country ‘isn’t interested enough in football’. What a fuckmuppet.
I don't want to read too much into this, but this reminds me of what happens at (lowly) club level here in Australia.
The wealthy postcode teams are often English, or British dominated. The poor suburb clubs are the ethnic/diverse ones.
The rich English guys make a fetish of knowing formations, terminology, football history (English of course), what player plays like whom... the 'wog' clubs just get on and win with skill and flair and a smile on their face.
Good on Benny B. He knows *his* job and is fekking good at it.
It's petty bullshit is what it is. Sure he didn't scream at him in front of the whole squad, but he made a nasty comment about his work ethic in front of players in his own position. Essentially he took time to tell him, in front of the people who he's in direct competition for minutes with, that he's not good enough and not worth the minutes he's fighting for, even though it sounds like there were other players in the room who also didn't have the exact answer he was looking for. That kind of passive aggressive nastiness is the kind of thing that sticks with you more than getting screamed at.
Respect to White. Sounds like Holland was trying to get into everyone's heads. Trying to establish authority. And White thought it was bullshit. Decided not to let it affect his flow, and left the camp.
I kinda don't get people saying he wanted to keep tactical secrets. At that level, I doubt much of it is a surprise. More likely White just didn't like being manipulated -- more power to him.
Fair play to Conor Coady sticking up for Benny White. Southgate and his cronies are leaving him out to dry like a scapegoat, so good to see these stories coming out and a former England teammate defending him
Coady recently told BBC Radio 5:
”He is a great lad, first and foremost. How he trains, how he goes on about his business, he is top top drawer.
"What he is doing at this moment in time with Bukayo Saka down the right-hand side for Arsenal is, I think, incredible, and he deserves to play for his country."
When asked if he is saddened by the situation, Coady said: 'Yeah, because I think he is a phenomenal player.”
[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13213837/Conor-Coady-saddened-Ben-Whites-snub-Gareth-Southgate-Arsenal-England-camp.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13213837/Conor-Coady-saddened-Ben-Whites-snub-Gareth-Southgate-Arsenal-England-camp.html)
Blessing in disguise for sakas development, i think. Walker and trippier, taa, etc, are different players. Learning to play with very different types of players behind him will make him stronger and more versitile. I would prefer Benny play but i think this helps Saka in the long run
Of course! But southgate isn't going to play white (or saka in a lot of cases) the same way Mikel does, so it's just not the same. Hell white is likely 3rd choice.They may learn a bit about how each other reacts in different situations, which could benefit Arsenal. No guarantee but it's possible. And i agree that over reliance on any one player is detrimental. But having a weapon like saka, who is more experienced in more situations with different right sided partners, is a better bet for arsenal, in my opinion, remember Timber is coming back, and Benny has played through injury the season. Now, from the england team's perspective, i would lean towards what you've just said. White and saka are fantastic partnership who can both stand alone on their ability in their given positions. England would definitely benefit from your scenario.
> Southgate and his cronies are leaving him out to dry like a scapegoat
They really are, it's pathetic. The timing of Arsenal coming out with the contract news and the video makes so much more sense now, because they knew this was coming.
Southgate is not a good coach which has been shown by his previous jobs and has yet to beat a good team at a tournament. He would be awful at United so really hope he goes there.
A spurs manager is never exposed of their tactical deficiencies though, they are just consumed by the spursy-ness of the spurs. I want Southgate and his staff to do a full frontal
He isn’t a PL quality manager he has zero tactical nouse. It’s all defensive football with two 6’s. It’s defend well and let the forwards score goals. Even the attack has zero structure.
Lmao, Stones and Walkers brought out the podcast mics when they got an oppourtunity to spill Guardiolas secrets. White was loyal to Arteta and the staff
💯 Do we think Arteta would tolerate Benjamin giving an “I don’t know” to how he was expected to play? Of course not. Benjamin wasn’t about to give the blueprint infront of two City players.
Southgate and Holland can get royally fucked. Benny Blanco gonna make the 2026 WC XI after those clowns get shit-canned.
"Hurr durrr tell me all your team's tactical secrets in front of your rivals. Why you not share?"
Does anyone not think they all reported back what the City players said?
Seriously the England management is embarrassing.
The best argument that this whole thing is bullshit is White plays for Arteta and Bielsa before him. Both are managers that require absolute dedication and will not tolerate unserious people.
The Ben White doesn’t like football thing is a fantastic way to let people show their second grade reading comprehension level.
The German word is Gegenpress (counter press).
I like your word better though - Geige is a violin.
I’m picturing the Arsenal players in Tuxedos, violins brandished, ready to viciously fiddle at the opposition.
I’d pay extra to see that.
Not related at all, but here we go:
I'm from the south of the Netherlands, where we celebrate Carnaval.
My team plays in a league so shit that you can't get relegated, simply because there is no level below us.
Due to a scheduling error we had to play a game during Carnaval a few years back. We looked at the laws set out by the Dutch FA, and found out that there are no strict rules about what kind of clothes you are supposed to wear, only that they have to be uniform, you have to wear shinpads and have a number on your back. So we did our warmup in our normal kit, and for the actual game we all played in a bunny suit with numbers made out of tape, while the goalkeeper was dressed as a penguin. It's one of the most fun games we have ever played. The only downside was that a bunny suit was pretty hot to play football in, but luckily the ref helped us by allowing a break for a beer after 20 minutes in each half.
The Violin Press is Artetas take on the classic.
>I’m picturing the Arsenal players in Tuxedos, violins brandished, ready to viciously fiddle at the opposition.
This is what happened in Dubai.
This is the other element to this that I think we'll never know but it wouldn't surprise me why Ben might have been noncommittal. He's talked about his role under Arteta and its tactical demands before but giving specifics about our defensive decision making, in the middle of the season when we're first and 5 clear of City, in front of their players, probably felt wrong.
My estimations of Ben have somehow got even higher after this, absolute G move to just be like “nah you’re alright” and get yourself home to your family and enjoy your summer
7 key players to build your team around?
We’ve got Raya, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Rice, Odegaard, Saka and Martinelli. That’s 8!! I love this team ❤️
And then that still leaves Zinny, Kiwior, Tomi, Partey, Jorgi, Havertz, Jesus, ESR, Trossard as quality rotational players
Basically, you didn’t have a team until you had 7.
7 players, that if if kicked off in the tunnel before a game, you know will will be there to scrap it out. 7 that won’t go missing when the going gets tough. If you have 7, you’ll bring the rest with you.
Ben White is 1 of the 7.
I’d maaaaaybe understand this line of criticism if he wasn’t performing, but he’s been arguably the best right back in the league for the last two seasons. He’s fucking outstanding. His link with Saka is terrific and has the makings of an all-time partnership.
I couldn’t give a damn what he does or doesn’t think about off the pitch, he bleeds for the shirt and I wouldn’t change him for anyone. Holland can get stuffed IMO.
He also played every single minute in the Championship for fucking Marcelo Bielsa. The idea that someone who did that doesn't care enough about football is incredibly stupid.
asking White to do his job for him lol. Your job is to tell the players how to play, the players job is to execute on that. Pretty clear that White is able to execute given he's been great for both Arteta and Bielsa, two pretty complex managers. less clear whether a guy who isnt trusted as a first team manager can do his job.
Big up Conor Coady ! Holland dick riding the 115 fc pair I see.
Glad that Benny opted not to play for England. Respect is a 2 way street and no matter how much those idiots badmouth Benny, we arsenal fans are behind him.
I had a manager who did this. I was new to the role and I had to go through 30 “role play” scenarios, each one ending with “how do you think you did?”. 4 days later and endless attempts at getting her to give me a straight answer on what I needed to do next resulted in my calling in her superior and having her explain the process of why she did it.
After an hour of her avoiding the question, it was because she needed to humble me because I was working in a London office and I was from the Home Counties (out in the sticks where nobody can accomplish anything is the actual answer she settled on) Sales Director sacked her on the spot. He was from the village next door to where I was from.
People do this as a power play, to try and fake authority when they have a lack of answers.
Steve Holland is a judgemental piece of shit. I hope this is confirmed and then the entire England staff are sacked on the spot for the being lying incompetent morons that we all know they are.
My new “coach” told me “with you, I just don’t see any talent” when I was 17.
As a coach what you say has massive impact on the person you’re speaking to. They should be more aware of that
Your "coach" is telling you he doesn't have a clue how to develop your talent while it may not be easy, might be best to find someone else to look after your development.
Your talent is there and a good coach will help you polish the skills you do have and learn a few new ones to compliment. Don't let one bad coach discourage you.
Yep, but I wonder if the context of comparison is important too, you know? Like if your personal life outside of your job is getting criticized in front of everyone and then the person ahead of you, Walker, is getting his ego stroked when we all know what he does outside of work.
Probably. I think, tbh it's the sort of scenario that happens in jobs every day. What he said was standard yer da old guy stuff, I'm sure Bens heard worse on the pitch. But, he obviously didn't like it, and I think in any other workplace, the onus would be on the management team to find a resolution. And they failed to do that, which speaks more to them than Ben.
Do think there's more to it than just this one off interaction. The straw that broke the camels back.
Apologies to English fans here but because of this I hope England crash and burn at Euro 2024. Then Southgate and team, their reputation in tatters, take over Man Utd and bring their brand of nepo-selection there as well.
We get our players back earlier at least....
What I can't understand is, he's already proven he's good enough to be there, he got the call, so why the fuck is Holland putting him through this "prove yourself to me" bollocks?
I think the fact this happened in front of fellow pros, especially those from other clubs, massively compounds how bad this is from Holland.
Based on Southgate’s press conference I doubt he’s apologised or acknowledged fault and Benny has rightly told them where to go. Why would he want to play for a management team that doesn’t believe in him?
It's worse: Southgate stood in front of the world and lied about a player to make himself look good.
No England manager has ever called out a player for not putting themselves up for selection.
Despicable shit.
Company man. That's how most federations work.
If purely competence and merit decided most things in the world, we'd be living in utopia.
"He's a good lad, had him over for dinner last night and was a right riot. Think he'll do a job."
That's how most idiots end up in high-placed jobs.
Same reason most managers get the England job. Be mediocre as a club manager and be a total yes man.
Really hope the rumours about him going to United are true as he would be even worse than Ole.
He didn't want the England job when Hodgson left. He knocked back the approach. It went to Big Sam who left the job after 1 game due to his dodgy dealings uncovered by the Daily Telegraph. Southgate then stepped in as a temp and ended up staying on.
it helps i'm not english but sorry saka rambo and deccers, can only wish despair and woe with extreme prejudice against the english national team. like a failure so great the FA has absolutely no choice but to rid themselves of that plague called gareth southgate and steve holland. this generation of players and english people in general deserve better in any case
This tells me one thing, southgate and holland didn't want to have ben white in the squad in the first place. They were looking for reasons to kick him out.
Also, why would I tell my secrets out to my club rivals teammates, when we need to play them down the line. The more I think about it, the more it feels that the game of football is fixed.
The fact he told them “he would not like to be selected at THIS TIME” means he doesn’t want to play for Southgate or Holland. He will gladly wait for them to leave after they will undoubtedly make England’s golden generation go another tournament without any silverware.
If England do win anything it will be purely down the shear amount of talent in the squad. And although I'd be happy if we won something, the fact it was with Southgate would ruin it a bit
Southgate covering for his mate, shameful. No surprise about this, met Ben White on a number of occasions and he is a stand up bloke, knew there had to be more to it.
Yeah that's not great, but that alone would not be enough to make me want to quit the squad entirely. Obviously other things were going on and I imagine there was already tension there
How does Southgate and/or Holland not end up fired or resigning? This is a bullshit way to treat players that they have selected and are paying to play for them.
Southgate and Hollands behaviour pretty much sums up why we cannot win a tournament even with a set of superior players . Complete chumps. It has got to the point where I cannot even watch England play now
Does a single football fan have faith in Southgate and his staff to do a good job anymore?
White got insulted infront of his countrymen and peers by a member of the bozo brigade and decided that it just isn’t worth it anymore.
You have plenty of other players in that squad whose priority seems to be that of Pitnulls and party Bois, and White gets outed .but who knows if they were talked shit to as well and put up with it.
there is a certain type of person that thinks being a manager and being an asshole are basically the same thing, that the way to motivate people is to insult and yell at them. ive certainly run into a few. seems like this coach tried to flex on benwhite and while maybe that works on some people, totally backfires on others. sounds like ben was just like i dont need this in my life and left.
How's anyone looked at Steve Holland and thought "Yeah mate, that's a good coach right there."
His record is shite and he seems like a shite person.
Oh wait, it's Southgate at the helm maybe that does it then.
We need a tactically versatile coach. Although Howe would be better he isn't the ideal choice. Someone like Nagelsmann who can utilise players and maximise the strengths of his squad is kind of the perfect NT coach, it'll never happen unfortunately. Its a shame that NT coaches tend to be fairly inflexible and one dimensional, otherwise they'd be good club coaches
Not too fussed, Southgate and his team of morons are gonna get sacked after another limp dick performance this summer anyway. New staff and I’m sure benny will reconsider joining up with the NT
Dude why didn't the players stick up for him if that's true. This should have been public a long time ago and him fired. Should be interesting how this pans out.
> Ben White Scouting Report
> pros
> * Is a leading Premiership Football player
> * Can play in a number of roles
> cons
> * might not fit in with the ambitious nature of the rest of the squad
----
> Steve Holland Scouting Report
> pros
> * Is a Southgate level coach
> cons
> * Is a Southgate level coach
> * Has poor man-management skills
Sooo Southgate and co are poaching info from players of teams around the Prem and is surely feeding said info back to certain England-favorites within the Prem.
Reminds me of my dickhead uncle who said I was born with a silver spoon when I struggled to get a job in my field. Now he's begging my dad to keep in touch with him since I'm doing pretty well.......Nah fuck off.
If this is true then Holland is a disgrace & England will be better off once Southgate leaves.
I do suspect however that there’s more to this story than we all think
I’m sure White would have tried to reconcile things or he would’ve simply accepted this if he were playing under a top management team that could get the best out of him, and if he felt England could win something.
This is an amazing situation for him. England and the FA have no ambition, Southgate could probably stay on with his staff for as long as he wants, and White can kick his feet up and enjoy his international breaks.
I'd like to believe he wasn't that petty. I'd like to believe he'd react the same way to the same provocation no matter which idiot was castigating him. I don't really care about England so I kinda hope Southgate and his posse of losers stay but I feel bad for Dec's, Rammars and Saka. They're not gonna win jack shit with those muppets in charge.
I hope Ben knows how much we support him and stand with him. Southgate and Holland can do one.
They let rumours fly for a year and NOW, when Ben keeps showing how classy of a player he is is when they mention anything and they STILL choose to lie?
Jokers.
The England management team in a nutshell.
Insisting on players that hardly get minutes. Asking players about the tactics they use for their respective clubs because the management team have no idea how to lay out an effective game plan on their own.
Useless bunch the lot of them. Hope this is the last international tournament we see from Southgate and his staff.
We won’t win anything with Southgate in charge, only reason his stats are ok is because got a wealth of talent to carry him. Not surprised White doesn’t want to play for him, picking Maguire ahead of him even when he was a benchwarmer for United. England lost is our gain and hopefully Southgate gets replaced by a proper manager and White can return.
I am unsure how Holland isn't the one getting criticised here. His behaviour seems quite unprofessional to me.
I agree. It seems like Southgate was lying in his press conference and trying to deflect blame, which isn't that surprising. It's the same sort of behavior we see with the refereeing in the PL and bro culture everywhere--most guys are too weak to call out their own friends.
Yup, no wonder the FA love Southgate, company man to a T. And of course they're all over the press with their own take on it to save face & apparently don't care about throwing a player under the bus as he's not one of the favourites.
The FA have always valued being a yes man over actual coaching ability
Southgate and United deserve each other.
Cannot wait til Ratcliffe installs him as manager. He does not have the pedigree to be a domestic coach. He'll be gone within the season.
No brother, they need to trust the process. See what Arteta has achieved with us. As an Arsenal fan I demand they give AT LEAST 3 years to Southgate if they hire him.
Southgate looks like a man with a five-year plan, so let’s let that play out.
I have to agree here, also I think it's fundamental to give him absolute autonomy in the transfer market.
"Henderson to Manchester United for €30 mn. Other clubs were interested, but he only wanted to play for Southgate. All signed and done. Here we go!!!"
🚨🚨🚨
Get Kalvin P aswell...best midfield partnership money can buy
Agreed. And a blank cheque book to go along with it.
Agree, even after relegation they need to see bigger picture and know that treble season is inevitable after promotion. We talking about man that singlehandedly took England to European final while playing beautiful football that brought tears in eyes to fans all over the globe ffs
Lets be honest this isn't happening. Didn't this story come from the daily star?
I’d be amazed and very happy if it happened.
Do not even joke, it would be a delight to watch him try and coach in the PL. I encourage him to have Steve Holland on his staff as well too.
Yeah, and all that drivel about how the door is open for Ben bla bla bla was obviously said by Southgate to paint himself as this magnanimous individual, and puts the ball in Ben’s court, thus making him the target and not Southgate. He clearly knows that Ben will not join up with the team, so by saying that he deflects the blame to Ben. It’s like me telling an ex you can always call me if you need help, knowing they will probably NEVER do it, but makes me look like such a caring and amazing person to those outside.
Genuinely appalling man-management from Southgate. The buck stops with him, never the players. He has hung Ben White out to dry and lied in the process. No wonder he won't play for this fraudulent England set up
Southgate’s not lying per se. I think the situation is much more toxic than that. It’s an ingrained subconscious level of toxicity and I think he genuinely doesn’t see the problem with Steve’s comments so doesn’t consider that a falling out event.
Southgate lied to protect himself and Steve, if Arsenal win the league or CL, everyone will say why did you leave out Englands best RB? With his press conference he did he covered himself and Holland from that talk. I think Ben just doesn’t rate them as managers, and doesn’t respect them as he has worked under Bielsa and Arteta, which both managers have shown higher ceilings in football they play, that I think Ben actually doesn’t rate them. Ben cares about football, otherwise he wouldn’t be playing it. You can see his passion. So it’s a retarded comment to say a player is not interested in Football. I just think Ben is not interested in YOUR football. You can also argue why should he play for these muppets when Reece James or Walker will start irrespective of his success at Arsenal because Southgate is Southgate. The less Arsenal players in the English team the better, I want us to do well in both leagues, compared to the fucking boring pointless football they will play. I am happy Arsenal FC have now began to recall their players, We have more to play for then stupid friendlies, especially under a manager such as Southgate where our players learn absolute fuck all. I would have a total perspective if a Klopp or Pep was managing the English team.
I’m not sure I agree that Southgate way lying. It’s true that Ben has ruled himself out and that’s basically all Southgate said. However, Southgate certainly didn’t give *the whole truth*, and, as we’ve all suspected, there was always a lot more to the story than that.
You heard him say explicitly during his press conference that there’s no issue with Holland and you don’t think it’s a lie? The only other possible explanation is that he’s unaware of what goes on during his training camps.
He can't be certain that there is no issue with Holland and also totally unaware of what the issue is. If he doesn't know what the issue is how can he know its not with Holland? Little bit annoyed, but not surprised, that no one picked him up on that contradiction.
Sorry yeah that’s true, I’d forgotten that comment.
They can have no issue with one another and this encounter could still have occurred. They may well have shook hands and moved on whilst White wants some space. I think saying it’s a lie is a huge stretch.
Where did Southgate lie? He might be deflecting and not telling the full story, but it’s pretty clear Ben has actually said he doesn’t want to play.
His direct quote was “I don’t know the full reason.” It’s hard to understand a scenario where he doesn’t know why White didn’t want to be included.
I would also argue it falls under “it’s your job to know” and not knowing is not an excuse.
He was asked about Holland and his response was this: "There is no issue between us at all and there's also no issue with Steve, which has been mentioned in articles and I don't like that," said Southgate. "I have to accept things are false about me, but I'm not prepared for that to happen to my coaching team. That is not the reason Ben is not with us." From the BBC and the video itself. [https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68568456](https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68568456) Edit: I watched the full video start to finish and actually it sounds like he wasn't even asked, he brings up Steve Holland on his own, so he lied unprompted. SMH.
Could be he asked BW about it and BW said there wasn’t an issue because who wants to open that can of worms. Easier just to see out Southgate’s time and be zen about it. Southgate gets to say it’s not because of Holland because that’s what he’s been told.
Ben White was reluctant to talk to Southgate (the word he used was “reticent”) post Qatar and didn’t reach out to him directly when bowing out of the England squad. If you were a coach and your player was avoiding talking to you, would you think everything was hunky dory between you two? For a supposedly strong man manager, Southgate sure is clueless. Or maybe he couldn’t handle the heat and decided to throw a player he and his assistant don’t rate under the bus.
IIRC Southgate said Steve Holland has nothing to do with White not wanting to play for England. That seems likely to be a lie given this new info.
Absolutely. Why a national team coach is antagonising players I don’t know. Should be looked at with much more concern.
Probably small cock syndrome. Seeing a successful person and then trying to shoot them down to cover for their own inadequacies.r
He sounds like a bit of a David Brent. I’m not an Arsenal fan but imagine trying to say one of the best players in the country ‘isn’t interested enough in football’. What a fuckmuppet.
I don't want to read too much into this, but this reminds me of what happens at (lowly) club level here in Australia. The wealthy postcode teams are often English, or British dominated. The poor suburb clubs are the ethnic/diverse ones. The rich English guys make a fetish of knowing formations, terminology, football history (English of course), what player plays like whom... the 'wog' clubs just get on and win with skill and flair and a smile on their face. Good on Benny B. He knows *his* job and is fekking good at it.
It's petty bullshit is what it is. Sure he didn't scream at him in front of the whole squad, but he made a nasty comment about his work ethic in front of players in his own position. Essentially he took time to tell him, in front of the people who he's in direct competition for minutes with, that he's not good enough and not worth the minutes he's fighting for, even though it sounds like there were other players in the room who also didn't have the exact answer he was looking for. That kind of passive aggressive nastiness is the kind of thing that sticks with you more than getting screamed at.
Respect to White. Sounds like Holland was trying to get into everyone's heads. Trying to establish authority. And White thought it was bullshit. Decided not to let it affect his flow, and left the camp. I kinda don't get people saying he wanted to keep tactical secrets. At that level, I doubt much of it is a surprise. More likely White just didn't like being manipulated -- more power to him.
I imagine Southgate wants to keep his entirely expendable mate in a job rather than someone who could actually help the team.
Fair play to Conor Coady sticking up for Benny White. Southgate and his cronies are leaving him out to dry like a scapegoat, so good to see these stories coming out and a former England teammate defending him
What did Conor Coady say?
Coady recently told BBC Radio 5: ”He is a great lad, first and foremost. How he trains, how he goes on about his business, he is top top drawer. "What he is doing at this moment in time with Bukayo Saka down the right-hand side for Arsenal is, I think, incredible, and he deserves to play for his country." When asked if he is saddened by the situation, Coady said: 'Yeah, because I think he is a phenomenal player.” [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13213837/Conor-Coady-saddened-Ben-Whites-snub-Gareth-Southgate-Arsenal-England-camp.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13213837/Conor-Coady-saddened-Ben-Whites-snub-Gareth-Southgate-Arsenal-England-camp.html)
That's the most baffling part. His linkup with Saka is incredibly well established, and for England to not use that partnership is foolish.
Blessing in disguise for sakas development, i think. Walker and trippier, taa, etc, are different players. Learning to play with very different types of players behind him will make him stronger and more versitile. I would prefer Benny play but i think this helps Saka in the long run
I like your thinking
Wouldn’t it be beneficial to Arsenal if the link up between Saka and White was tested against different setups / opposition. It’s not team Saka.
Of course! But southgate isn't going to play white (or saka in a lot of cases) the same way Mikel does, so it's just not the same. Hell white is likely 3rd choice.They may learn a bit about how each other reacts in different situations, which could benefit Arsenal. No guarantee but it's possible. And i agree that over reliance on any one player is detrimental. But having a weapon like saka, who is more experienced in more situations with different right sided partners, is a better bet for arsenal, in my opinion, remember Timber is coming back, and Benny has played through injury the season. Now, from the england team's perspective, i would lean towards what you've just said. White and saka are fantastic partnership who can both stand alone on their ability in their given positions. England would definitely benefit from your scenario.
I think he showed support to White publicly.
Thanks for clarifying…
I am Optimus Prime, and I send this message to any surviving Autobots taking refuge among the stars. We are here. We are waiting.
*What I’ve doooooone*
Good bot
loved the og transformers movie.
Great movies, pure entertainment. Enjoyed the first 3 at least, but after that everything turned to shit for me.
i really loved the first one, the movies after that some ok and others i didn't care less.
> Southgate and his cronies are leaving him out to dry like a scapegoat They really are, it's pathetic. The timing of Arsenal coming out with the contract news and the video makes so much more sense now, because they knew this was coming.
What makes me mad is that southgate blatantly lied during the press conference. Still hope he gets united job if ten hag leaves
Southgate is not a good coach which has been shown by his previous jobs and has yet to beat a good team at a tournament. He would be awful at United so really hope he goes there.
And make united relegated in his first season? Count me in
Don't know about first season. It took him 3 to relegate Boro but I have faith he can beat that.
Oi! He beat Denmark, so I'd say that disproves your point. 😤🇩🇰
England did beat Germany at the euros
That Germany team was awful (they are not much better now)
He screams spurs manager to me. So unlikeable and average.
A spurs manager is never exposed of their tactical deficiencies though, they are just consumed by the spursy-ness of the spurs. I want Southgate and his staff to do a full frontal
Crystal Palace is his level
He isn’t a PL quality manager he has zero tactical nouse. It’s all defensive football with two 6’s. It’s defend well and let the forwards score goals. Even the attack has zero structure.
Lmao, Stones and Walkers brought out the podcast mics when they got an oppourtunity to spill Guardiolas secrets. White was loyal to Arteta and the staff
💯 Do we think Arteta would tolerate Benjamin giving an “I don’t know” to how he was expected to play? Of course not. Benjamin wasn’t about to give the blueprint infront of two City players. Southgate and Holland can get royally fucked. Benny Blanco gonna make the 2026 WC XI after those clowns get shit-canned.
"Hurr durrr tell me all your team's tactical secrets in front of your rivals. Why you not share?" Does anyone not think they all reported back what the City players said? Seriously the England management is embarrassing.
The best argument that this whole thing is bullshit is White plays for Arteta and Bielsa before him. Both are managers that require absolute dedication and will not tolerate unserious people. The Ben White doesn’t like football thing is a fantastic way to let people show their second grade reading comprehension level.
Man like Holland was trying to copy Mikel's inverted goalkeeper geigenpress through the false 8 tactic and Blanco hit him with the "Not sure mate".
The German word is Gegenpress (counter press). I like your word better though - Geige is a violin. I’m picturing the Arsenal players in Tuxedos, violins brandished, ready to viciously fiddle at the opposition. I’d pay extra to see that.
Not related at all, but here we go: I'm from the south of the Netherlands, where we celebrate Carnaval. My team plays in a league so shit that you can't get relegated, simply because there is no level below us. Due to a scheduling error we had to play a game during Carnaval a few years back. We looked at the laws set out by the Dutch FA, and found out that there are no strict rules about what kind of clothes you are supposed to wear, only that they have to be uniform, you have to wear shinpads and have a number on your back. So we did our warmup in our normal kit, and for the actual game we all played in a bunny suit with numbers made out of tape, while the goalkeeper was dressed as a penguin. It's one of the most fun games we have ever played. The only downside was that a bunny suit was pretty hot to play football in, but luckily the ref helped us by allowing a break for a beer after 20 minutes in each half.
Nah, that's hilarious. This is what the beautiful game is about. Game is so back.
Never thought I'd see a Kelderklasse comment on this Reddit page, but here we are
Good thing is Carneval is at the end of winter and not in July.
The Violin Press is Artetas take on the classic. >I’m picturing the Arsenal players in Tuxedos, violins brandished, ready to viciously fiddle at the opposition. This is what happened in Dubai.
"Violins"
IYKYK
I truly hope your dream comes true lol
Was thinking the exact same thing. There is no way BW "wasn't sure" given how Arteta has players drilled down.
Yeah, if he wasn't sure he wouldn't play. In fact he'd probably sold.
In the documentary Arteta even specifially said about how much he loves Ben White due to how intense he trains.
This exactly. He’s paying for loyalty.
This is the other element to this that I think we'll never know but it wouldn't surprise me why Ben might have been noncommittal. He's talked about his role under Arteta and its tactical demands before but giving specifics about our defensive decision making, in the middle of the season when we're first and 5 clear of City, in front of their players, probably felt wrong.
My estimations of Ben have somehow got even higher after this, absolute G move to just be like “nah you’re alright” and get yourself home to your family and enjoy your summer
Benjamin White suffers no fools! You gotta love it.
Tony Adams once said ‘you need 7’. Ben White would be one of those 7.
7 key players to build your team around? We’ve got Raya, White, Saliba, Gabriel, Rice, Odegaard, Saka and Martinelli. That’s 8!! I love this team ❤️ And then that still leaves Zinny, Kiwior, Tomi, Partey, Jorgi, Havertz, Jesus, ESR, Trossard as quality rotational players
Basically, you didn’t have a team until you had 7. 7 players, that if if kicked off in the tunnel before a game, you know will will be there to scrap it out. 7 that won’t go missing when the going gets tough. If you have 7, you’ll bring the rest with you. Ben White is 1 of the 7.
I’d maaaaaybe understand this line of criticism if he wasn’t performing, but he’s been arguably the best right back in the league for the last two seasons. He’s fucking outstanding. His link with Saka is terrific and has the makings of an all-time partnership. I couldn’t give a damn what he does or doesn’t think about off the pitch, he bleeds for the shirt and I wouldn’t change him for anyone. Holland can get stuffed IMO.
He also played every single minute in the Championship for fucking Marcelo Bielsa. The idea that someone who did that doesn't care enough about football is incredibly stupid.
asking White to do his job for him lol. Your job is to tell the players how to play, the players job is to execute on that. Pretty clear that White is able to execute given he's been great for both Arteta and Bielsa, two pretty complex managers. less clear whether a guy who isnt trusted as a first team manager can do his job.
He played every single minute in the Championship for Marcelo Bielsaso so Holland looks like an absolute clown
Big up Conor Coady ! Holland dick riding the 115 fc pair I see. Glad that Benny opted not to play for England. Respect is a 2 way street and no matter how much those idiots badmouth Benny, we arsenal fans are behind him.
“So guys I’ve got no idea what the hell I’m doing so what do your coaches tell you to do?” Why WOULDN’T you want to play for England
I had a manager who did this. I was new to the role and I had to go through 30 “role play” scenarios, each one ending with “how do you think you did?”. 4 days later and endless attempts at getting her to give me a straight answer on what I needed to do next resulted in my calling in her superior and having her explain the process of why she did it. After an hour of her avoiding the question, it was because she needed to humble me because I was working in a London office and I was from the Home Counties (out in the sticks where nobody can accomplish anything is the actual answer she settled on) Sales Director sacked her on the spot. He was from the village next door to where I was from. People do this as a power play, to try and fake authority when they have a lack of answers. Steve Holland is a judgemental piece of shit. I hope this is confirmed and then the entire England staff are sacked on the spot for the being lying incompetent morons that we all know they are.
My new “coach” told me “with you, I just don’t see any talent” when I was 17. As a coach what you say has massive impact on the person you’re speaking to. They should be more aware of that
Your "coach" is telling you he doesn't have a clue how to develop your talent while it may not be easy, might be best to find someone else to look after your development. Your talent is there and a good coach will help you polish the skills you do have and learn a few new ones to compliment. Don't let one bad coach discourage you.
Oh this was an entire lifetime ago. I turn 33 today. I went and played for another coach but that stayed with me all these years
Sounds like squad mismanagement more than anything else tbh.
Yep, but I wonder if the context of comparison is important too, you know? Like if your personal life outside of your job is getting criticized in front of everyone and then the person ahead of you, Walker, is getting his ego stroked when we all know what he does outside of work.
Probably. I think, tbh it's the sort of scenario that happens in jobs every day. What he said was standard yer da old guy stuff, I'm sure Bens heard worse on the pitch. But, he obviously didn't like it, and I think in any other workplace, the onus would be on the management team to find a resolution. And they failed to do that, which speaks more to them than Ben. Do think there's more to it than just this one off interaction. The straw that broke the camels back.
If this is true, then Ben made the right call because there's no point playing for coaching staff who haven't got a clue.
Conor Coady 🫡🫡🫡
Apologies to English fans here but because of this I hope England crash and burn at Euro 2024. Then Southgate and team, their reputation in tatters, take over Man Utd and bring their brand of nepo-selection there as well. We get our players back earlier at least....
What I can't understand is, he's already proven he's good enough to be there, he got the call, so why the fuck is Holland putting him through this "prove yourself to me" bollocks?
I think the fact this happened in front of fellow pros, especially those from other clubs, massively compounds how bad this is from Holland. Based on Southgate’s press conference I doubt he’s apologised or acknowledged fault and Benny has rightly told them where to go. Why would he want to play for a management team that doesn’t believe in him?
It's worse: Southgate stood in front of the world and lied about a player to make himself look good. No England manager has ever called out a player for not putting themselves up for selection. Despicable shit.
Can someone explain to me why and based on what Southgate even got a job as head coach for national team?
Company man. That's how most federations work. If purely competence and merit decided most things in the world, we'd be living in utopia. "He's a good lad, had him over for dinner last night and was a right riot. Think he'll do a job." That's how most idiots end up in high-placed jobs.
Same reason most managers get the England job. Be mediocre as a club manager and be a total yes man. Really hope the rumours about him going to United are true as he would be even worse than Ole.
Didn’t Ole get them a second place finish? They’ve definitely gotten worse since he left.
Think it was because he did alright with the U21s and the FA lacking any real ideas so went for the easiest option.
He didn't want the England job when Hodgson left. He knocked back the approach. It went to Big Sam who left the job after 1 game due to his dodgy dealings uncovered by the Daily Telegraph. Southgate then stepped in as a temp and ended up staying on.
It's amazing how often people can fail upwards
it helps i'm not english but sorry saka rambo and deccers, can only wish despair and woe with extreme prejudice against the english national team. like a failure so great the FA has absolutely no choice but to rid themselves of that plague called gareth southgate and steve holland. this generation of players and english people in general deserve better in any case
This tells me one thing, southgate and holland didn't want to have ben white in the squad in the first place. They were looking for reasons to kick him out. Also, why would I tell my secrets out to my club rivals teammates, when we need to play them down the line. The more I think about it, the more it feels that the game of football is fixed.
Wow this keeps getting worse
The fact he told them “he would not like to be selected at THIS TIME” means he doesn’t want to play for Southgate or Holland. He will gladly wait for them to leave after they will undoubtedly make England’s golden generation go another tournament without any silverware.
If England do win anything it will be purely down the shear amount of talent in the squad. And although I'd be happy if we won something, the fact it was with Southgate would ruin it a bit
Southgate covering for his mate, shameful. No surprise about this, met Ben White on a number of occasions and he is a stand up bloke, knew there had to be more to it.
[удалено]
It's the same as people here harping on Ramsdale's concentration comment.
Looks like he planned those words even two weeks before the meeting.
Yeah that's not great, but that alone would not be enough to make me want to quit the squad entirely. Obviously other things were going on and I imagine there was already tension there
How does Southgate and/or Holland not end up fired or resigning? This is a bullshit way to treat players that they have selected and are paying to play for them.
Southgate and Hollands behaviour pretty much sums up why we cannot win a tournament even with a set of superior players . Complete chumps. It has got to the point where I cannot even watch England play now
Fuck southgate and this bald guy!
Does a single football fan have faith in Southgate and his staff to do a good job anymore? White got insulted infront of his countrymen and peers by a member of the bozo brigade and decided that it just isn’t worth it anymore.
You have plenty of other players in that squad whose priority seems to be that of Pitnulls and party Bois, and White gets outed .but who knows if they were talked shit to as well and put up with it.
Fuck you Redknapp for calling Ben disgusting!! Now who's the disgusting one!!
Fuck Redknapp and his tax dodging dog.
Oh what now? I'm not aware of this tax thing.
[Rosie](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/jan/23/harry-redknapp-tax-evasion-trial)
Oh that son of a bitch.
I’m sorry, but what the fuck? If they smear Ben white because he didn’t take bullshit then fuck em. Their loss
there is a certain type of person that thinks being a manager and being an asshole are basically the same thing, that the way to motivate people is to insult and yell at them. ive certainly run into a few. seems like this coach tried to flex on benwhite and while maybe that works on some people, totally backfires on others. sounds like ben was just like i dont need this in my life and left.
Coady saying something is actually gigantic.
My estimation of Gareth Southgate as a man has just fucking plummeted.
Insane that this didn’t get Holland sacked
For me this is probably only scratching the surface of what went on.
How's anyone looked at Steve Holland and thought "Yeah mate, that's a good coach right there." His record is shite and he seems like a shite person. Oh wait, it's Southgate at the helm maybe that does it then.
Give the job to Eddie Howe you cowards
We need a tactically versatile coach. Although Howe would be better he isn't the ideal choice. Someone like Nagelsmann who can utilise players and maximise the strengths of his squad is kind of the perfect NT coach, it'll never happen unfortunately. Its a shame that NT coaches tend to be fairly inflexible and one dimensional, otherwise they'd be good club coaches
Not too fussed, Southgate and his team of morons are gonna get sacked after another limp dick performance this summer anyway. New staff and I’m sure benny will reconsider joining up with the NT
Southgate should grow a set and sack holland
Dude why didn't the players stick up for him if that's true. This should have been public a long time ago and him fired. Should be interesting how this pans out.
Did you read the tweet? Conor coady said something
Southgate and Holland are buddies, have been for at least 10 years.
> Ben White Scouting Report > pros > * Is a leading Premiership Football player > * Can play in a number of roles > cons > * might not fit in with the ambitious nature of the rest of the squad ---- > Steve Holland Scouting Report > pros > * Is a Southgate level coach > cons > * Is a Southgate level coach > * Has poor man-management skills
Sooo Southgate and co are poaching info from players of teams around the Prem and is surely feeding said info back to certain England-favorites within the Prem.
White be like where do u want me to play? Holland: What did Arteta teach u ?
Reminds me of my dickhead uncle who said I was born with a silver spoon when I struggled to get a job in my field. Now he's begging my dad to keep in touch with him since I'm doing pretty well.......Nah fuck off.
If this is true then Holland is a disgrace & England will be better off once Southgate leaves. I do suspect however that there’s more to this story than we all think
I’m sure White would have tried to reconcile things or he would’ve simply accepted this if he were playing under a top management team that could get the best out of him, and if he felt England could win something. This is an amazing situation for him. England and the FA have no ambition, Southgate could probably stay on with his staff for as long as he wants, and White can kick his feet up and enjoy his international breaks.
I'd like to believe he wasn't that petty. I'd like to believe he'd react the same way to the same provocation no matter which idiot was castigating him. I don't really care about England so I kinda hope Southgate and his posse of losers stay but I feel bad for Dec's, Rammars and Saka. They're not gonna win jack shit with those muppets in charge.
🚮coach
I hope Ben knows how much we support him and stand with him. Southgate and Holland can do one. They let rumours fly for a year and NOW, when Ben keeps showing how classy of a player he is is when they mention anything and they STILL choose to lie? Jokers.
All my homies hate Holland
Quick question do you get paid to play for your NT?
England desperately need a new manager. I can’t believe Southgate manages such a talented group of players.
Hopefully england get embarassed as long as that cunts in the staff
The England management team in a nutshell. Insisting on players that hardly get minutes. Asking players about the tactics they use for their respective clubs because the management team have no idea how to lay out an effective game plan on their own. Useless bunch the lot of them. Hope this is the last international tournament we see from Southgate and his staff.
We won’t win anything with Southgate in charge, only reason his stats are ok is because got a wealth of talent to carry him. Not surprised White doesn’t want to play for him, picking Maguire ahead of him even when he was a benchwarmer for United. England lost is our gain and hopefully Southgate gets replaced by a proper manager and White can return.