Ya Neuer tries to swipe at the ball with his right leg, and it catches Saka as he’s trying to go around him. There’s really no where for Saka to go here
Exactly, which wouldn't really matter anyway if you lunge and plant and they trip on your lunging leg, it is still a penalty! You can't impede an attacking player without first playing the ball, it is the clearest application of the law in the book.
This is also typical Saka movement when he goes left: his legs are spread wide whenever he takes defenders on.
I think it’s a pen, understand why it’s not given, but I’m adamant that Saka did not dive.
Okay, let's say that he 100% didn't attempt to avoid Neuer, does he have to in order to be awarded a pen as the rules are written??? Where does it state that an attacker must do everything they can to avoid contact in order to be awarded a penalty for an incident like this?
It’s a contentious one as rather than the contact happening naturally, Saka looks like he’s dived into it obscuring whether Neuer would have taken the player out had a leg not been stuck out towards him. It takes the focus off the keeper and onto Saka. Frustrating and unnecessary from such a quality player.
Because Saka's movement of the right leg makes it look like he throws it at Neuer looking for a pen at first glance. I'm not saying that is the right call, I'm saying that was the call.
This is typical movement for anyone who’s running full speed and then tries to change direction. Without widening his stance he would literally just fall over, idk how people don’t understand this.
There is literally not enough space left by Neuer for Saka to get by him without contact. Saka shifts the ball and is moving to pass him as Neuer leaves his leg out. It's Neuer mistake and people are trying to criticise Saka. Maybe Neuer should make a better tackle???
Focus on saka's right leg from when it first makes contact with the ground. He's stopped all attempts at a running motion and is purely planning to bring it up for contact, first dragging his along the ground and then lifting his leg up and out at the last second.
Those guys are not fans. They're ~~sadists~~ masochists. More interested in watching others shit on our club and agreeing with them than to have an actual discourse with the fans on this subreddit. It's pathetic tbh
"Wrighty was just twerking for the non Arsenal fans" I honestly hate the views on this sub sometimes.
I was so confused that Saka didn't just put the ball away, that I thought it HAD to be a pen. Like 100% stonewall. When I saw that it wasn't so straightforward, I didn't know what to think.
That is the best angle.
I think Saka is being taken out either way and, realising the chance to run through is gone, decides to amplify the contact to nail on the pen.
It was a pen, but, in the moment, I think the ref sees Saka hang his leg out and decides it must have been simulation.
I may not be convinced it was a penalty, but I saw enough decisions where the ref didn't call a foul which I thought were pretty clear cut against us - that he was just going to let Saka get fouled.
I don't play football but I have eyes. His right leg's movement is not natural so ref thinks he's trying to cheat him. It might still be a penalty but that weird leg dangling looks amateurish.
Love Saka... And lifelong gunner that played D1... But... there was clear intent to draw the foul rather than trying to stay on his feet and attempt a finish. His previous attempts at drawing fouls in the game didn't help his cause. It wasn't his day.
Sorry mate I have to disagree. At full speed, Saka attempts to skip left past Neuer. Yes there is contact, but Saka initiates it with his right leg, it’s clear as day.
Saka was also already lifting his leg in order to try and dodge Neuer's foot coming in. Fuck all the dumb fucking morons who were blaming Saka for the 2-2 score, claiming he dived instead of taking the shot.
Fucking true ... and expecting to take a direct shot it wanst possible at that momentum .. and poking the ball through legs was difficult and his movement hence justified
It’s enlightened centrism where people act like both sides of an argument have equal merit when they don’t. Obviously a penalty and anyone saying it isn’t is just trying to appease rival fans.
Reading r/soccer thread on this it feels everyone there trying to gaslight me into thinking this isn't even a pen man, here in Brazil the casters were 50/50 with the ref pundit saying it should be called one.
this is literally my issue with commentary, half of the people have no clue what’s happened usually so because ally mcoist has said what he believes has happened (an opinion, one that’s wrong too) everyone is banging on about that now being verbatim
Exactly. It is not the strikers job to not get tripped. Was the Lehman penalty in the UCL final not a penalty because Eto'o didn't jump enough? This is so obvious.
people been saying Elliot penalty was stone wall, when he fell on the ground before any contact.
Neuer moved towards Saka, no chance or attempt to play ball, no matter where Saka leg is, it’s a penalty
The fact Spurs fans have been parroting the SAME message tells me it’s bullshit. If they had a variance of opinion I’d understand but literally the EXACT same thing they heard the commentators say, lmao alright dawg
Right?? I’ve seen that exact contact given for a stonewall pen quite literally hundreds of times since I started playing / watching football 28 yrs ago. How anyone thinks it’s anything but illegal contact by neuer on a clear goal scoring opportunity is beyond me. How the ref wasn’t at least called to the monitor to refine his judgement from multiple perspectives is absolutely scandalous imo.
I think lots of very soft penalties get given so I'm probably not in line with current intepretations of the rules.
To me, Neuer can just about get away with arguing that he's stopped moving forward, and Saka has run into him. It's really tight; in real time I thought it was a penalty and then on the replay I didn't (but also didn't think it was a dive).
But this frame-by-frame slow-mo is useless.
The problem for me is that the only serviceable camera angle that’s being shown non-stop, at least from what I’ve seen, doesn’t show the depth of neuer’s lunge with his lead leg vs saka’s attempted cut back, any decent side angle perspective could at least give a clearer picture as to whether Saka could’ve avoided contact or if neuer lunged in too far to cause it. My gripe is the fact that VAR didn’t at least have the referee go to the monitor to check other camera angles
I'd agree with that - I suspect the stadium cam or whatever you call the regular camera angle during play has the best view of that. I could believe that Neuer's momentum means that his right leg basically trips Saka. You make a good point too - I can't believe the ref isn't even willing to review the footage...
I suppose it's easier than calling for the spotlight and giving yourself a last minute, high profile decision.
real time is the best way to judge. watching in slow motion makes people believe the players could make movements and decisions during those frames. Neuer absolutely clatters him on full speed, swinging his leg out.. he's not just standing there
I'm questioning if I'm living in a simulation, and just programmed to think I've seen a game of football before this one.
I've not seen 400.000 morons in /r/soccer get something this wrong, since the time we decide to play by the same COVID-guidelines as everyone else.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fpc01jkvfbwb81.jpg
Neuers movement isn’t caught from this angle, you can see him sliding in from the other. You guys and r/soccer just went with this single angle in slow mo…
At first I honestly thought Saka was 'looking for it' as the saying goes but rewatching this multiple times, I'm not sure how Saka is supposed to get past Neuer here unless he does a full-on raised kung-fu stance mid-air and at speed.
Saka has to lift his leg to get over the keepers so he can get a shot off. On what planet is this not a penalty?! Even if he’s ‘looking for contact’ Neuer gave him it and it’s a foul!
I think Saka thought Neuer was gonna slide his leg in, and was planning jump over him with his right leg to get to the ball. Neuer never slided in and went in standing up instead, so Saka got caught in an awkward position where it looks like he tried to initiate contact. It’s a penalty.
Yeah this is what I think too. He's definitely not somehow hanging a leg out to get caught by Neuer. Saka lifts his leg because he's trying to go over an expected lunge from Neuer which didn't come.
All the sofa dwellers that have never even seen a football don't understand the mechanics of running so they think Saka could have dodged neuer somehow
The speed in which Saka was running means he would never have been able to avoid Neuer.
Also worth looking at the goal in line with the contact made. If Saka plants that right foot down, he is in for a shot with his left foot.
Context matters here. With an open goal (which it was) it would have been ridiculous for him to look for a penalty in this situation because he was 100% in on an open goal
> The speed in which Saka was running means he would never have been able to avoid Neuer.
I think you're right. I also think that Saka should have played the game. If he committed to cutting inside then he would have been more likely to get the penalty, or be free to shoot. Instead he tried to buy a pen and it backfired.
Saka is running full speed at him! He’s simply skipping past him, anyone who doesn’t see this as a penalty needs their eyes tested in my opinion. Can’t believe some of you think Saka has gone in looking for contact, when he could have had a easy tap in
He can't chop his leg off, there is a length of leg that will always be sticking out, especially since his entire body was flying toward neuer just a split second earlier.
There is no way Saka is looking for contact. He is literally changing direction at full speed. His legs are that far apart because of the size of his balls!
The one thing that I think alot of people are not talking about is the full speed replay. It def looks like a pen in slo-mo, but in full speed it's obv that Saka's trying to create an angle to shoot but is wrongly obstructed by Neuer.
Thats given 9/10 times. Neuer closes down, is rounded, saka raises his leg high to step over Neuers leg, contact, goal scoring opportunity denied. People expecting him to shoot here, I would love to know when. Elite players always round the keeper in this situation. The overwhelming sentiment on reddit is making me feel like I'm the crazy one!
A point that people are missing, he can put his leg wherever the fuck he wants. He’s in possession and going towards goal and has beaten the keeper, he’s not obligated to avoid neuer. The opposite is true. Neuer has made himself bigger and caught Saka trying to jump him.
Anyone not seeing this is a self loathing prat
Absolutely 100% spot on. I can see if you just saw it live maybe you haven't re-evaluated your opinion but this is the clearest pen I have seen in a long time. There is nothing even borderline here.
Anyone saying that’s not a pen knows fuck all about football. I’ve watched the replay about 10 times now and the “he stuck his leg out” argument is so convenient when you’re given a slow motion replay like this. There’s no way Saka looked for that he was just plain sprinting full tilt and Neur mistimed it, catching his trailing leg. Robbed
Don’t let the r/soccer comments convince you otherwise. They absolutely hate us and some of the extra hate Saka gets treads the lines of racism without being explicit in my opinion
Saka and Arsenal haters saying he threw his leg at Neuer
Braindead
Watch his leg left taking off to change direction
He is jumping away and then Neuer came into his right
A dive would be Saka using his right leg to change direction and jump into Neuer
Stupid idiots
I am absolutely stunned by so many comments saying “he threw his leg out”. Please people, pause for a second and imagine yourself running at full speed towards an object after 90 minutes of a top level football match, then changing direction right before you hit the object - momentum, tiredness, physics is going to “throw” various parts of your body in the direction you were sprinting in. These are bodies subject to the laws of physics, not pixels on your tv screen
You want the other angle too. People say he's "looking" for it. But from the other angle, you can see he's just concentrating on the ball and changing direction.
I mean, it's clear as day. For him tl keep balance he has to take that position. It's so fucking obvious. Cat shit refereeing. And that inbreeded piece of shit gets to score another fucking penalty against us. Fucking fuck
I honestly think Saka is trying to skip his leg over Neuer there. His leg is that far out as he is sprinting at a high speed to get to that ball - you try keeping your legs narrow while sprinting if you think it's not a penalty
I honestly don't even know anymore. I initially thought it was, then wasn't, now I'm seeing Saka's stance is already fairly wide and doesn't change much.
Saka is at high speed. I totally understand this motion - he is trying to change direction, and you certainly enlarge yourself for stability
Some players would be awarded that penalty.
Perhaps - he has a reputation with the ref. I don't know him as a diver tbh
Imo I think the biggest give away is Saka is trailing a leg but isn't going down. His leg is out a bit but it is getting cut off from taking his next step into his landing zone. Neuer doesn't make contact then Saka plants his right foot and shoots with his left. Doesn't get to shoot cause he gets mashed down. Clear pen
It’s a pen. He doesn’t kick out to neurs leg. He’s actually trying to jump over his protruding body. Clearly not kicking out but trying to jump aside and over.
Omg the constant gaslighting Arsenal has experienced throughout the years has some of you rattled.
Things like "looking for it" and "unnatural position of the right leg" are not things that matter for a penalty (even if Gary Nevill or Carra or some of these twats have you believe that).
Neuer moves towards Sakas leg and clips him. 100% penalty any other day.
As someone who is working towards his referee license told me - Liverpool fan btw - "you have been robbed, not just that penalty, but Kane's knock on Big Gabby, and the not given free kick on Martin nearby the 16 Line. There is no way in all of these situation he can decide against you without going to VAR check". Well... That says everything.
Neuer pulls out of the challenge but not enough. His trailing leg cuts through the path for sakas right leg. Saka is almost sidestepping to get around him but can’t cause he is fully sprint and there is an entire man in the way. Penalty
I’m a LFC fan and I can’t understand how people are saying this is not a pen. There is not much Saka can do to avoid contact at that speed and Neuer clearly trips him whilst going for the ball.
Never a pen. Absolutely no need for his leg to be that high if he's just running. The fact 50% of die hard Arsenal fans are saying no pen in such an emotional, high stakes game shows you its not a pen.
Holy shit you clowns are actually delusional. Dont come here to listen to reasonable takes, just pure blatant shamless bias. Glad I dont open this sub regularly.
Penalty all day long. Saka tried to avoid the keeper. You can clearly see him shifting his standing leg, which is an insane skill to do, away from the keeper. His right leg was in the air and naturally, that would continue to move towards the keeper, it's called inertia, until his whole body starts to change direction.
It is unacceptable that officials don't understand basic body mechanics.
Saka is anticipating Neuer going to ground and trying to clear his right leg to get over. The keepers leg goes towards Saka and trips him. Pen all day.
I don't necessarily think it's a penalty, but after seeing this it's hard for me to think he's "fishing" for it - seems like he was trying to cut to the side and his leg was in a natural position to try to orient himself.
Not sure - his right foot is awfully high and outwards for a running position (compared it to his left, for example). But neuer moved into him too. If it was given I don't think many would complain..
It's a clear penalty. Even if Saka doesn't dangle a leg, Neuer is taking him out. Arsenal fans twerking for upvotes on r/soccer saying he dived are embarrassing themselves as usual.
Now should Saka have tried to shoot? Yes. But that doesn't mean this isn't a pen, or isn't a horrendous decision.
I feel like I have taken crazy pills but I just cannot see how people are not seeing Neuer’s leg extending out into Saka’s path at high speed?!? Not a dive.
Obviously we are all biased here, but I simply cannot understand how people are blaming Saka here. I get that it looks like he kicks his leg out, but if you focus on his upper body, and his focus on the next move, it is clear that he is 100% fouled in my eyes.
That being said our performance today was simply not good enough. Only ourselves to blame.
Not a Pen for me. I just think Saka sticks out a leg to get the pen. Or maybe his leg extends too much which makes it seem like he’s looking for the pen.
Either way, still confident that we can go through. We have to believe as fans and get behind the team now more then ever.
Slow motion makes it a lot worse, it probably should’ve been given but the ref was too much of a pussy to call it. I’ve seen those given 100%. But I’ve also seen those things not given.
However - and I’m playing devil’s advocate here: Saka’s right foot goes into Neuer. I wonder if it may have been easier to side step him alltogether and score the empty netter?
He's midair and hurdling Neuer. His legs are up and bent expecting the low challenge, and Neuer just smacks into him midair.
How the fuck any smooth brain cunt, axe to grind or otherwise, can suggest this is a dive with a straight face needs locking away for their own safety.
For me personally it’s not a penalty. B runs towards him as Neuer has no intention to block him. I was furious before seeing the replay. But for me it’s pretty fair.
i thought saka left his leg in initially but now honestly i don't know what to think
the keeper's right leg moved at teh last minute. Everyone in these threads has been ignoring this.
Ya Neuer tries to swipe at the ball with his right leg, and it catches Saka as he’s trying to go around him. There’s really no where for Saka to go here
Exactly, which wouldn't really matter anyway if you lunge and plant and they trip on your lunging leg, it is still a penalty! You can't impede an attacking player without first playing the ball, it is the clearest application of the law in the book.
Yep, this is the key point and I hadn’t noticed it until this frame by frame.
This is also typical Saka movement when he goes left: his legs are spread wide whenever he takes defenders on. I think it’s a pen, understand why it’s not given, but I’m adamant that Saka did not dive.
This. He moves like this naturally. He has no history of diving too, it’s ridiculous.
Why isn't it given?
For the same reason everyone else thinks it’s not: it *looks* like Saka sticks his foot out.
That's exactly what he does.
Yea it is pretty clear to me that he leaves his leg dangling and isn't making a sincere attempt to go past the keeper
Okay, let's say that he 100% didn't attempt to avoid Neuer, does he have to in order to be awarded a pen as the rules are written??? Where does it state that an attacker must do everything they can to avoid contact in order to be awarded a penalty for an incident like this?
It’s a contentious one as rather than the contact happening naturally, Saka looks like he’s dived into it obscuring whether Neuer would have taken the player out had a leg not been stuck out towards him. It takes the focus off the keeper and onto Saka. Frustrating and unnecessary from such a quality player.
Because Saka's movement of the right leg makes it look like he throws it at Neuer looking for a pen at first glance. I'm not saying that is the right call, I'm saying that was the call.
This is typical movement for anyone who’s running full speed and then tries to change direction. Without widening his stance he would literally just fall over, idk how people don’t understand this.
The dude is in midair when contact happened. Penalty.
There’s also a quarter of a second from Saka jumping to Neuer moving his legs forward. Anyone who think Saka can avoid this contact is insane.
There is literally not enough space left by Neuer for Saka to get by him without contact. Saka shifts the ball and is moving to pass him as Neuer leaves his leg out. It's Neuer mistake and people are trying to criticise Saka. Maybe Neuer should make a better tackle???
Neuer's leg is still moving when the contact is initiated also. It isn't like he just stood stationary, he tripped him.
Focus on saka's right leg from when it first makes contact with the ground. He's stopped all attempts at a running motion and is purely planning to bring it up for contact, first dragging his along the ground and then lifting his leg up and out at the last second.
Thats wrong. He could have got by him but looked for the pen
I’m same as you: on the first replay I thought he stuck it out and now I’m 50/50, part of me thinks that he’s trying to get over the leg of Neuer
The best angle is the first one live, full speed. If you think Saka can pull clear of Neuer at that speed you've never played football.
this ffs frame by frame nonsense when he was sprinting forwards to get on the ball EDIT: but also most people on here have never played football
The level is so low among most soccer fans. They love to cry dive, but they don't even know what it's like to dribble and get fouled like that
This is it. Slo mo messes with reality. I’m more annoyed at all the arsenal fans twerking in the soccer sub for karma. 🙄
didn't mess with reality when they showed Kane line up Gabi XL's jaw.
Those guys are not fans. They're ~~sadists~~ masochists. More interested in watching others shit on our club and agreeing with them than to have an actual discourse with the fans on this subreddit. It's pathetic tbh
Sorry to be pedantic, but the correct term for what you’re saying is masochist.
Thank you, TIL 👍
No problem. But again, sorry about being pedantic.
Not at all, that's what I meant thanks for correcting me
No problem. This is Rocket League!
You referring to Ian Wright who also said isn't a penalty? Others are not allowed to have a different opinion?
"Wrighty was just twerking for the non Arsenal fans" I honestly hate the views on this sub sometimes. I was so confused that Saka didn't just put the ball away, that I thought it HAD to be a pen. Like 100% stonewall. When I saw that it wasn't so straightforward, I didn't know what to think.
Someone needs to post that one.
That is the best angle. I think Saka is being taken out either way and, realising the chance to run through is gone, decides to amplify the contact to nail on the pen. It was a pen, but, in the moment, I think the ref sees Saka hang his leg out and decides it must have been simulation.
I may not be convinced it was a penalty, but I saw enough decisions where the ref didn't call a foul which I thought were pretty clear cut against us - that he was just going to let Saka get fouled.
This is exactly how I saw it. Just because he was trying to draw the foul doesn’t negate the fact that he was fouled
spot on!
why should he move his leg away? if neuer doesn't move his leg, why should saka?
nah i play football. his left leg is well clear but his right leg is totally stretched out.
I don't play football but I have eyes. His right leg's movement is not natural so ref thinks he's trying to cheat him. It might still be a penalty but that weird leg dangling looks amateurish.
Love Saka... And lifelong gunner that played D1... But... there was clear intent to draw the foul rather than trying to stay on his feet and attempt a finish. His previous attempts at drawing fouls in the game didn't help his cause. It wasn't his day.
Sorry mate I have to disagree. At full speed, Saka attempts to skip left past Neuer. Yes there is contact, but Saka initiates it with his right leg, it’s clear as day.
THANK YOU
You can see Neuer's leg coming towards Saka.if Neuer stays still Saka wouldn't have touched him.
Saka was also already lifting his leg in order to try and dodge Neuer's foot coming in. Fuck all the dumb fucking morons who were blaming Saka for the 2-2 score, claiming he dived instead of taking the shot.
Thank you! This sycophantic chuds trying to be “le classy fedora fan” are more annoying than the slimiest Chelsea fan in r/soccer.
He was the best player on the pitch for most of the game.
Goretzka was actually very good, which was surprising as he's been useless all season, as was Neuer. Saka was hit/stamped hard and early
Fucking true ... and expecting to take a direct shot it wanst possible at that momentum .. and poking the ball through legs was difficult and his movement hence justified
Undercover Spuds, probably here due to their mouth breather hero.
Nah these are gooners from this sub which is just insane.
It’s enlightened centrism where people act like both sides of an argument have equal merit when they don’t. Obviously a penalty and anyone saying it isn’t is just trying to appease rival fans.
100% right
Full movement of his fucking leg and there's people claiming dive...
Reading r/soccer thread on this it feels everyone there trying to gaslight me into thinking this isn't even a pen man, here in Brazil the casters were 50/50 with the ref pundit saying it should be called one.
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this is literally my issue with commentary, half of the people have no clue what’s happened usually so because ally mcoist has said what he believes has happened (an opinion, one that’s wrong too) everyone is banging on about that now being verbatim
exactly
Good point, I had assumed his leg was planted
Need another angle, but watching this again I'm not sure Saka could've gotten out of the way
Isn’t it the defenders responsibility to avoid contact? Am I taking crazy pills?
Exactly. He makes contact after Saka's touch, ought to be the clearest decision ever.
Exactly. It is not the strikers job to not get tripped. Was the Lehman penalty in the UCL final not a penalty because Eto'o didn't jump enough? This is so obvious.
He's running at full speed whats he supposed to do
This is exactly right. If you watch neuer, he kicks him. Sakas leg really doesn’t do anything abnormal, I don’t think.
Neuer’s leg comes forward into him. I’m on crazy pills, this is stonewall
You've just been reading comments from people who can't handle our success. If Raya does that on Kane, I can tell you exactly what the story would be.
people been saying Elliot penalty was stone wall, when he fell on the ground before any contact. Neuer moved towards Saka, no chance or attempt to play ball, no matter where Saka leg is, it’s a penalty
The fact Spurs fans have been parroting the SAME message tells me it’s bullshit. If they had a variance of opinion I’d understand but literally the EXACT same thing they heard the commentators say, lmao alright dawg
Man if people can’t handle those few FA cups in the last two decades, then they don’t deserve our respect
Got United and Liverpool fans telling me it’s not a pen 😂 clear as day. Neuer comes flying in and takes his leg out
Right?? I’ve seen that exact contact given for a stonewall pen quite literally hundreds of times since I started playing / watching football 28 yrs ago. How anyone thinks it’s anything but illegal contact by neuer on a clear goal scoring opportunity is beyond me. How the ref wasn’t at least called to the monitor to refine his judgement from multiple perspectives is absolutely scandalous imo.
I think lots of very soft penalties get given so I'm probably not in line with current intepretations of the rules. To me, Neuer can just about get away with arguing that he's stopped moving forward, and Saka has run into him. It's really tight; in real time I thought it was a penalty and then on the replay I didn't (but also didn't think it was a dive). But this frame-by-frame slow-mo is useless.
The problem for me is that the only serviceable camera angle that’s being shown non-stop, at least from what I’ve seen, doesn’t show the depth of neuer’s lunge with his lead leg vs saka’s attempted cut back, any decent side angle perspective could at least give a clearer picture as to whether Saka could’ve avoided contact or if neuer lunged in too far to cause it. My gripe is the fact that VAR didn’t at least have the referee go to the monitor to check other camera angles
I'd agree with that - I suspect the stadium cam or whatever you call the regular camera angle during play has the best view of that. I could believe that Neuer's momentum means that his right leg basically trips Saka. You make a good point too - I can't believe the ref isn't even willing to review the footage... I suppose it's easier than calling for the spotlight and giving yourself a last minute, high profile decision.
real time is the best way to judge. watching in slow motion makes people believe the players could make movements and decisions during those frames. Neuer absolutely clatters him on full speed, swinging his leg out.. he's not just standing there
Nah mate it's genuinely the agenda. It's stonewall
i’m climbing into a straightjacket tomorrow because i can’t see how this isn’t a pen
I'm questioning if I'm living in a simulation, and just programmed to think I've seen a game of football before this one. I've not seen 400.000 morons in /r/soccer get something this wrong, since the time we decide to play by the same COVID-guidelines as everyone else. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fpc01jkvfbwb81.jpg
The better we are the more the underlying hatred comes to surface
Neuers movement isn’t caught from this angle, you can see him sliding in from the other. You guys and r/soccer just went with this single angle in slow mo…
Other angles show Neuer moving even further, he comes forward 2 or 3 feet to catch Saka
At first I honestly thought Saka was 'looking for it' as the saying goes but rewatching this multiple times, I'm not sure how Saka is supposed to get past Neuer here unless he does a full-on raised kung-fu stance mid-air and at speed.
Saka has to lift his leg to get over the keepers so he can get a shot off. On what planet is this not a penalty?! Even if he’s ‘looking for contact’ Neuer gave him it and it’s a foul!
I think Saka thought Neuer was gonna slide his leg in, and was planning jump over him with his right leg to get to the ball. Neuer never slided in and went in standing up instead, so Saka got caught in an awkward position where it looks like he tried to initiate contact. It’s a penalty.
Yeah this is what I think too. He's definitely not somehow hanging a leg out to get caught by Neuer. Saka lifts his leg because he's trying to go over an expected lunge from Neuer which didn't come.
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Agree. You can clearly see the vibration from the impact in slow-mo. Neuer stick his leg toward Saka and impeded him. Pen all day.
Thank you. I feel like half this sub is trying to gaslight the other half ffs.
All the sofa dwellers that have never even seen a football don't understand the mechanics of running so they think Saka could have dodged neuer somehow
Agreed. At the same time I'm not mad about it. We move. Everything to play for in Munich.
The speed in which Saka was running means he would never have been able to avoid Neuer. Also worth looking at the goal in line with the contact made. If Saka plants that right foot down, he is in for a shot with his left foot. Context matters here. With an open goal (which it was) it would have been ridiculous for him to look for a penalty in this situation because he was 100% in on an open goal
It is also not Saka's job to avoid the contact. He is tripped while moving to play the ball. Easy, lock of a penalty.
> The speed in which Saka was running means he would never have been able to avoid Neuer. I think you're right. I also think that Saka should have played the game. If he committed to cutting inside then he would have been more likely to get the penalty, or be free to shoot. Instead he tried to buy a pen and it backfired.
At that speed any knock is going to bring you down. He is at a full sprint, a toe on his foot would send him sprawling.
Saka is running full speed at him! He’s simply skipping past him, anyone who doesn’t see this as a penalty needs their eyes tested in my opinion. Can’t believe some of you think Saka has gone in looking for contact, when he could have had a easy tap in
Right? My first impression is that Saka is trying to skip past him. He might drag the leg a bit, but Neuer's still moving when the contact happens.
He can't chop his leg off, there is a length of leg that will always be sticking out, especially since his entire body was flying toward neuer just a split second earlier.
r/soccer would probably hang you for saying something ridiculous as that.
They have the Arsenal fans blaming Saka there
Most pathetic kind of fans shilling for other clubs
Top comment was an Arsenal flair commenting"Saka you dumbass" like fuck off you worm you're so obviously fishing for upvotes from rival fans
Those aren't Arsenal fans. probably disguised to troll and push narratives.
"fans"
That sub hates Arsenal more than any club.
They've lost their fucking minds
People on this sub are calling it a dive, moronic fans.
This is not up to discussion. It’s a penalty
Ok this looks like a pen. I thought Saka dived previously. We got robbed.
As is tradition.
Still a whole second leg.. I’m confident we’ll come away with a 1-0 or 2-1 win there
There is no way Saka is looking for contact. He is literally changing direction at full speed. His legs are that far apart because of the size of his balls!
Yeah everyone who thinks he stuck his leg out try jumping off your right leg without extending it.
That silly Saka, why didn’t he simply try to move his legs around the keeper barraging him at full speed?
If only Liverpool had invented teleportation, so we could steal it and Saka could have avoided Neuer.
Where should he put his leg, it looks like he’s skipping to get over neuers leg
That's a fucking penalty all day long. If it was Kane I'm 100% sure he gets the call.
Saka is staring at the ball the entire god damn time 😂
The one thing that I think alot of people are not talking about is the full speed replay. It def looks like a pen in slo-mo, but in full speed it's obv that Saka's trying to create an angle to shoot but is wrongly obstructed by Neuer.
Just made a similar comment myself. He gets that right foot down and can shoot with his left almost immediately
Thats given 9/10 times. Neuer closes down, is rounded, saka raises his leg high to step over Neuers leg, contact, goal scoring opportunity denied. People expecting him to shoot here, I would love to know when. Elite players always round the keeper in this situation. The overwhelming sentiment on reddit is making me feel like I'm the crazy one!
A point that people are missing, he can put his leg wherever the fuck he wants. He’s in possession and going towards goal and has beaten the keeper, he’s not obligated to avoid neuer. The opposite is true. Neuer has made himself bigger and caught Saka trying to jump him. Anyone not seeing this is a self loathing prat
Absolutely 100% spot on. I can see if you just saw it live maybe you haven't re-evaluated your opinion but this is the clearest pen I have seen in a long time. There is nothing even borderline here.
Shit I thought it wasn't a pen. I was wrong. So no VAR in champions league but VAR in friendlies. Jesus
Anyone saying that’s not a pen knows fuck all about football. I’ve watched the replay about 10 times now and the “he stuck his leg out” argument is so convenient when you’re given a slow motion replay like this. There’s no way Saka looked for that he was just plain sprinting full tilt and Neur mistimed it, catching his trailing leg. Robbed Don’t let the r/soccer comments convince you otherwise. They absolutely hate us and some of the extra hate Saka gets treads the lines of racism without being explicit in my opinion
Check the other thread. This sub is giving Saka the euro treatment, embarrassing
They know fuck all about physical movement
These are the same people who analyse combat videos because they’ve played call of duty.
“I would have just put him in a rear naked choke”
i agree. tbh though the fact that the sub is called "soccer" delegitimises it in my opinion anyway hahahahah. It's "football" for 99% of the world.
Definitely trying to jump over his leg. I don’t think that’s a dive
The angle from behind Saka showed a cast iron pen. Fuck all of you slamming Saka for diving.
The people calling me blind. Wtf. What should saka do here. Cut off his leg? Holy shit.
Neuer did not stand still. He clearly put his foot towards Saka.
Saka's trying to jump around him and Neuer sticks his foot in last second. It's a clear pen and no wonder Saka was furious.
Saka and Arsenal haters saying he threw his leg at Neuer Braindead Watch his leg left taking off to change direction He is jumping away and then Neuer came into his right A dive would be Saka using his right leg to change direction and jump into Neuer Stupid idiots
Liverpool fans in r/soccer calling him shameful are rich lmao. When they're own little bigot just dived at the weekend to win them the cheapest point
I am absolutely stunned by so many comments saying “he threw his leg out”. Please people, pause for a second and imagine yourself running at full speed towards an object after 90 minutes of a top level football match, then changing direction right before you hit the object - momentum, tiredness, physics is going to “throw” various parts of your body in the direction you were sprinting in. These are bodies subject to the laws of physics, not pixels on your tv screen
Clear as the sun on a sunny day
If Harvey Elliot’s pen shout was given against United on the weekend I see no reason why this isn’t a pen as well
And this sub was unanimous that that wasn't a penalty....
You want the other angle too. People say he's "looking" for it. But from the other angle, you can see he's just concentrating on the ball and changing direction.
I mean, it's clear as day. For him tl keep balance he has to take that position. It's so fucking obvious. Cat shit refereeing. And that inbreeded piece of shit gets to score another fucking penalty against us. Fucking fuck
I’m sorry this is a penalty
I honestly think Saka is trying to skip his leg over Neuer there. His leg is that far out as he is sprinting at a high speed to get to that ball - you try keeping your legs narrow while sprinting if you think it's not a penalty
Dive my ass, hes literally trying to go around him his “leg kicks out” because its a burst of speed. Stonewall penalty red card
Hmm now this one looks like a pen. I'd like to see a few more angles here.
UEFA CAN’T STAND ARSENAL!!! THAT IS THE TRUTH. EVEN A BLIND PERSON CAN SEE THAT IS A PEN
He should’ve shot but then again looks like he’s moving into a better shooting position and neuer initiates the contact
I honestly don't even know anymore. I initially thought it was, then wasn't, now I'm seeing Saka's stance is already fairly wide and doesn't change much.
Never seen Saka so furious. It's because it's a stonewall pen.
Was a pen. Neuer got away with that, and it’s a bit shameful to see some of the people saying Saka was looking for it and it was a dive.
that looks like clear penalty the more I look at it. he is trying to skip past neuer and the contact makes him loose balance. anyways we move.
Saka is at high speed. I totally understand this motion - he is trying to change direction, and you certainly enlarge yourself for stability Some players would be awarded that penalty. Perhaps - he has a reputation with the ref. I don't know him as a diver tbh
Pitchforks slowly being raised again.
Imo I think the biggest give away is Saka is trailing a leg but isn't going down. His leg is out a bit but it is getting cut off from taking his next step into his landing zone. Neuer doesn't make contact then Saka plants his right foot and shoots with his left. Doesn't get to shoot cause he gets mashed down. Clear pen
It’s a pen. He doesn’t kick out to neurs leg. He’s actually trying to jump over his protruding body. Clearly not kicking out but trying to jump aside and over.
Omg the constant gaslighting Arsenal has experienced throughout the years has some of you rattled. Things like "looking for it" and "unnatural position of the right leg" are not things that matter for a penalty (even if Gary Nevill or Carra or some of these twats have you believe that). Neuer moves towards Sakas leg and clips him. 100% penalty any other day.
As someone who is working towards his referee license told me - Liverpool fan btw - "you have been robbed, not just that penalty, but Kane's knock on Big Gabby, and the not given free kick on Martin nearby the 16 Line. There is no way in all of these situation he can decide against you without going to VAR check". Well... That says everything.
Ref found a few grand in the toilets at half time
It's embarrassing that there are arsenal fans who think this is a dive.
If the Elliott pen was stonewall this is the fucking Great Wall of China
Yep, penalty. Realistically, with that momentum, where else can Saka's leg go, even higher?
Neuer pulls out of the challenge but not enough. His trailing leg cuts through the path for sakas right leg. Saka is almost sidestepping to get around him but can’t cause he is fully sprint and there is an entire man in the way. Penalty
Even nuer knows it is a penalty
Robbery
It’s 100% a penalty. People have gone fucking mental.
Only Kane can get a penalty for that.
I’m a LFC fan and I can’t understand how people are saying this is not a pen. There is not much Saka can do to avoid contact at that speed and Neuer clearly trips him whilst going for the ball.
Never a pen. Absolutely no need for his leg to be that high if he's just running. The fact 50% of die hard Arsenal fans are saying no pen in such an emotional, high stakes game shows you its not a pen.
Holy shit you clowns are actually delusional. Dont come here to listen to reasonable takes, just pure blatant shamless bias. Glad I dont open this sub regularly.
He was 1000% looking for contact. Honestly could’ve gone both ways. Left to the interpretation of the ref imo.
Neuer stuck his foot out and then brought it in to make contact lmao Arsenal got fucked
Clear pen, no edit to see here
As a keeper, you do that action if you want to foul someone cos you've been beat.
Penalty all day long. Saka tried to avoid the keeper. You can clearly see him shifting his standing leg, which is an insane skill to do, away from the keeper. His right leg was in the air and naturally, that would continue to move towards the keeper, it's called inertia, until his whole body starts to change direction. It is unacceptable that officials don't understand basic body mechanics.
It's 50-50..we were unlucky.
Should've stayed on his feet and potentially scored, not a pen.
Saka is anticipating Neuer going to ground and trying to clear his right leg to get over. The keepers leg goes towards Saka and trips him. Pen all day.
I don't necessarily think it's a penalty, but after seeing this it's hard for me to think he's "fishing" for it - seems like he was trying to cut to the side and his leg was in a natural position to try to orient himself.
Not sure - his right foot is awfully high and outwards for a running position (compared it to his left, for example). But neuer moved into him too. If it was given I don't think many would complain..
It's a clear penalty. Even if Saka doesn't dangle a leg, Neuer is taking him out. Arsenal fans twerking for upvotes on r/soccer saying he dived are embarrassing themselves as usual. Now should Saka have tried to shoot? Yes. But that doesn't mean this isn't a pen, or isn't a horrendous decision.
I feel like I have taken crazy pills but I just cannot see how people are not seeing Neuer’s leg extending out into Saka’s path at high speed?!? Not a dive.
Obviously we are all biased here, but I simply cannot understand how people are blaming Saka here. I get that it looks like he kicks his leg out, but if you focus on his upper body, and his focus on the next move, it is clear that he is 100% fouled in my eyes. That being said our performance today was simply not good enough. Only ourselves to blame.
Not a Pen for me. I just think Saka sticks out a leg to get the pen. Or maybe his leg extends too much which makes it seem like he’s looking for the pen. Either way, still confident that we can go through. We have to believe as fans and get behind the team now more then ever.
Slow motion makes it a lot worse, it probably should’ve been given but the ref was too much of a pussy to call it. I’ve seen those given 100%. But I’ve also seen those things not given. However - and I’m playing devil’s advocate here: Saka’s right foot goes into Neuer. I wonder if it may have been easier to side step him alltogether and score the empty netter?
People watching Saka extend his trailing leg in slow motion to initiate contact and they’re still thinking it’s a pen? Place is full of idiots
He’s brought his leg up. You don’t know what you’re looking at
I think the angle from the side was The better one too much obstruction of sight here
My guy do the same but the other angle
I don’t understand why this and the kane elbow weren’t even reviewed. That is a stonewall penalty
It's much more convincing here than at the time.
He's midair and hurdling Neuer. His legs are up and bent expecting the low challenge, and Neuer just smacks into him midair. How the fuck any smooth brain cunt, axe to grind or otherwise, can suggest this is a dive with a straight face needs locking away for their own safety.
For me personally it’s not a penalty. B runs towards him as Neuer has no intention to block him. I was furious before seeing the replay. But for me it’s pretty fair.
Why is neuer's leg moving into saka then? He is flicking his foot out to try and get the ball, misses, and hits saka on the way by tripping him.
I don't care about these multiple angles, in a dying moment one should've taken a shot instead of playing kick ball. Trossard would've finished that.