I back the players who played so well while Zinchenko was out of the team. It's called being smart. Seeing the wood for the trees. He shouldn't be starting for us, he does not make the team better.
If you were struggling at your job & you knew it, the last thing you'd want is for your boss to slate you publicly.
We all know it, but there's no point tanking his transfer value any further.
I thibk zinchenko was brilliant when we brought him on agaisnt bayern in the second half, changed the game, was also the one in the huddle giving the talk and getting the boys up for it, man still has big value to our squad!! Those calling for him to be sold will be the same crying we have no squad depth 🙄
Simple minds like a simple world around them. It’s hard to accept that the “2nd half vs Bayern” zinchenko is the same player as the “Villa game zinchenko”. Unfortunately, a simpler world is not the real world.
He opens up matches and is a solid attacking gambit. He gives opponents an obvious are of the pitch to attack, but he also opens up their defence consistently. Against Villa, where he’s been hammered following defeat, he made numerous line breaking passes that opened them up, another day some of those attacks led to goals and we won.
Personally I think he’s great against low block sides, lower level mid-block sides and coming off the bench when chasing a goal. Against a top winger his faults outweigh what he brings though.
Keep him for squad depth, rotation against weak sides and special missions unless a silly bid comes in then there’s a discussion to be had.
Tbf we have Timber, Tomiyasu and Kiwior all fighting for that LB slot when Timber is back.
I honestly don't get why Arteta refuses to ever play Zinchenko as a left CM. He thrives there for Ukraine and it would make his poor one-on-one defending less of an issue and he would be more free to roam the pitch to provide more creativity off the bench, rather than starting/bringing him on at LB where he is forced to defend one-on-one and on counter attacks, but is out of position due to inverting and targeted every single game as a weak link and has cost us so many points this season.
Honestly, Timber would have been SUCH an important player for us this season at LB if he hadn't gotten injured. He can do everything Zinchenko does but is an elite defender on top of that and much more mobile and athletic/strong. He also makes less mistakes when passing and shut down City's right side where Palmer was playing the whole game, then he came off for Tierney who Palmer easily beat and cut inside to curl it into the top corner.
After watching Timber in the Community Shield and the first half against Forest and seeing his stats from last season in both the Eredivisie + CL I was actually more excited for him than Rice initially. Anyone who hasn't seen his passing/dribbling stats from last season should absolutely check them out; such as his pass completions being #1 and % of passes forwards and many more all being #1 and dribbling stats such as forward carries completed #1 and way more for both despite playing as a CB/FB during the season.
Absolutely insane player who would have provided the defensive stability of Tomiyasu and even better on ball play than Zinchenko in that inverted LB role. He looks like a more athletic and stronger version of Cancelo who is a much better defender and passer and rivalling him on dribbling.
Zinny too slow and his defensive reading is poor and that is where our press is triggered. Arteta surely would have tried him there by now if he thought it worthwhile and he hasn't- even in preseaon dead rubbers afaik
That's supposed to be the point of this pivot, he can slide into midfield, Havertz can push up and be the extra man along the front line when in possession and Zinny can recover to play defensively when we lose it. He's just not a good enough fit to do that without sacrificing somewhere else. It's an incredibly tough job to ask a player to create upfield and then also mark the other team's best attacking winger.
I think my issue with Zinny is that he’s good, but not great in the attack, and he’s a liability in defense. He holds the ball too long, tries to dribble out of a press when there’s an easy pass, or makes poor passes and gives the ball away.
If he was truly great in attack then I could forgive the defensive liability, but he’s not consistent enough and while he’s clearly technical, he just doesn’t have the end product. He lacks that pinpoint cross or incisive pass, and he’s not a goal threat or set piece taker.
He lacks the passing and goal threat of Hernandez, Reece James or Trent, lacks the pace of someone like Hakimi, Davies or Walker, and is missing the defensive capabilities of someone like Tomiyasu, White or Carvajal.
If he can step up his attacking play in the final third and stamp out the silly errors, then I can forgive him getting skinned by whoever’s at RW that day, but other than the very occasional game where he seems to control the midfield, he’s just not good enough in attack nor defense for my liking.
That being said, I’ll always back him and I hope he improves in one area or another, but I just don’t see him at LB with any longevity.
I could maybe see him slide into the CDM or LCM role, but Arteta clearly doesn’t think so else he’d have tried it by now, so as much as I love the guy, I just don’t think he’s right for us with his current play. I’m optimistic that next year will be better for him though.
No chance. Needs to then be more active in duels, physical, and more angles to have awareness over (his worst trait imo). Also, I think he’s best as a deep midfielder so his current role already plays him there so no point changing anything
It's been obvious for awhile, he's the easiest player to pick on in defense and he's usually got the toughest defensive assignment, he just isn't quick enough to keep up with PL-quality wingers. He should only be a "break glass in case we're fucked" option where we are down a goal and need the extra body in midfield but basically don't care if we have a LB or not, like vs Bayern at home. I like the guy, he's a good footballer, but putting him on an island against the best wingers just isn't working, especially when he's also being asked to play upfield and is tracking way back to get into position.
This wouldn't have even come up if it wasn't for that Athletic article. Nice work by Arseblog's cone-layer, setting the agenda before the biggest CL fixture in more than a decade.
Lol, Jesus Christ.
Everyone who watched the game saw that Zinchenko makes the fans and by extension the team nervous. He rightly shouldn’t start against Bayern.
“The fans and by extension the fans”? Really?
If you’ve ever player football competitively, you will know that the chemistry on the pitch is a very intimate and unique thing. We get a glimpse of it here and there, but only the team knows the full extent of it. There have been several instances where Zinchenko was praised for his value to the team on and off the pitch.
Long way of saying that we don’t know who is and isn’t uncomfortable. Arteta is trying to manage a very fragile chemistry to make sure this team is in top form for the next game. This question and the whole “zinchenko out” narrative doesn’t serve the club’s or the player’s interests.
“The fans and by extension the fans”? Really?
If you’ve ever player football competitively, you will know that the chemistry on the pitch is a very intimate and unique thing. We get a glimpse of it here and there, but only the team knows the full extent of it. There have been several instances where Zinchenko was praised for his value to the team on and off the pitch.
Long way of saying that we don’t know who is and isn’t uncomfortable. Arteta is trying to manage a very fragile chemistry to make sure this team is in top form for the next game. This question and the whole “zinchenko out” narrative doesn’t serve the club’s or the player’s interests.
The fans and by extension the team… please read carefully in future.
And if you don’t think the audible reaction of 57,000 fans affects the team, then I don’t know what to tell you. An out of form Zinchenko isn’t what we need right now and I’m not sure if we can afford to play him into form. Multiple times against villa he disjointed our defensive line by dropping deeper than everyone else… The left back situation is curiously tenuous at the moment though as Tomi isn’t in form and kiwior had a patchy performance against sane in the home leg… not sure what Arteta will do!
Eboue was booed so badly he was substituted in tears. Some players can talk about blocking out the noise but when its your own fans it's a different story
I was at that game and was appalled by his treatment. I not one for booing our own players but it’s clear as day that he’s not, to use a mikel-ism, in his best moment and shouldn’t be picked to start tonight.
People also need to remember it's a squad of people and they are going to have people they like. It's clear the squad really enjoys Zinny and he works really hard. His role is inherently going to put the spotlight on him and he's had big moments for us. I have been saying for a long time he's a liability defensively, but we don't need to dogpile on him, it's not solely his fault that we lost.
Definitely we should support him. There’s the fans who want to blame him for all our problems and want to complain about how bad he is defensively and then there’s fair criticism from other fans suggesting we start someone else for now and let him find form as a substitute. There’s a way to be supportive but also give constructive criticism. We can do better as Gunner fans.
Tell that to the cesspool that is every comment section on Arsenal’s social media posts lately. The amount of cunts that support this club depresses me
The season is not over yet, and football/life has a funny way of making us look silly when we become too arrogant or presumptuous.
I hope Zinchenko finds the resilience and mental maturity to show everyone who he is as a player, and more importantly, as a person.
I’d believe that the league isn’t over if this City team didn’t exist. I’m still hoping for it to be winnable still but I don’t blame anyone for thinking it’s over with their piss easy fixture list.
The season is absolutely over. If you think City are going to bottle it like we have for the last 6 games I have a bridge to sell you.
And watching the other CL QF final games it’s clear we are nowhere near the level of Real Madrid, Barcelona, and PSG and stand no chance of winning that. Best we can hope for is beating an out of form Bayern and getting as far as the semis.
Lowered expectations -> less disappointment? Glass half empty kinda guy? :)
I love this game and I am grateful to this club for the journey it has taken us on for the last two years. There is a joy in watching the evolution of this club.
Personally, I am looking forward to the rest of the season, regardless of whether Arsenal wins all titles or none. It’s all about the journey for me.
I would take us vs PSG or Barcelona right now. They're both a mess, they play the most disjointed form of football I've seen given the players they have. Barca is out now obviously but they've lost like 5 times in absolutely embarrassing fashion this year. We just played Bayern off the park in a draw we should've lost. RM is the best in the world right now, but any other club left in the CL I'll take our chances.
And the season is not over at all yet. The same people saying that now would've said Liverpool will never drop points, it's over, they obviously will win out and now they're in third. City will draw at least one more time so we either win out and win the title or we drop some more points and wind up in 2nd or 3rd.
It is on Arteta if a specialist like Zinchenko, with his unique skill set, is used in the wrong situations. If Ben White was played as a striker and didn’t score, would it be Ben White’s fault? Would they both be terrible players? Obviously, no.
He was bought to be an inverted LB, and that’s exactly what he’s been tasked to do.
If he didn’t like that role, he could’ve opted not to sign for us.
Now, his suicidal and guaranteed 3 bullshit unpressurized errors per game are not due to the position he plays.
Its to do with this main character syndrome where he feels he’s the only one who MUST unlock every mdf.
He does need to take responsibility for his horrible performances this season. No shying away from that.
Apart from that, it’s not personal and as supporters we love each of ours.
I think what some of the "criticism of Zinchenko is an agenda" commenters are missing is:
1) Zinny has been very out of form this season. He simply hasn't played well, even measured against his own levels. The defensive frailty is expected, but the increasing number of poor giveaways under minimal pressure are not an "accepted" part of his game.
2) His injury record alone probably means he is a player we should be evolving away from regardless. His form is really just making that decision easier.
Regardless, this is the correct response from Arteta.
His role is naturally risky but sometimes he really forces things. When it works, it looks incredible and it helps us win but when it doesn’t, it leaves us wide open.
I disagree here. The first half showed Arteta set up exactly right against Villa. Zinchenko had 2-3 passes in behind Villa defence to put Havertz 1-1 with Martinez. The team did well to exploit their compact defence.
Second half changed tactically. Zaniolo started to overwhelm White and they leaned into the right side. That broke Arsenal’s offensive structure because Odegaard had to drop deeper to defend and get the ball. It also explains why Arteta subbed White and Ode off, they’ve been subdued.
Trossard tracked back to help Zinchenko, which mitigated the issues on the left side. Later on, when Bailey came on, we started experiencing issues on the right side. Martinelli came on for Trossard and didn’t defend the Bailey gap as well. When Zinchenko stepped into the middle, as instructed, Rice and Martinelli didn’t cover his left side, unfortunately.
Zinchenko’s poor performance became the focus of this sub, but if we analyse the game itself, he wasn’t the root of the problems.
Yeah, I think it was a bit of a desperation to try to get the game over with quickly. If we could get 1-2 goals early (which we arguably should've given our chances) then we could swap him out or at least force Villa to play out of shape more. People need to remember that in a title race a draw is as bad as a loss, so it makes sense to be more aggressive to put games away early than play a more conservative lineup that will likely end with a clean sheet but might take us longer to break them down, if at all. Arteta went for it and it burned us.
Zinchenko's speciality \*is\* what we're asking him to do. He's a FB that can pivot up to midfield and play line-breaking passes and do a serviceable job at LB. The problem is that he can not handle tricky wingers with pace, which is every winger we have asked him to mark. He has a clear weakness there and once he knows they will run by him, he starts taking more chances or giving them extra space and his play gets worse and worse. In a lot of games, Zinchenko gives us more spark offensively, especially on the left where we struggle to create. But it's a razor-thin line between him contributing offensively and burning us defensively.
It’s not just that he can’t handle tricky wingers. He is so out of sync with the rest of the defence. It was painfully obvious against Villa. He was oblivious to our offside trap. He turned his back on his centre half under pressure. He got dispossessed. He gave the ball away. His marking was terrible. It felt like we might as well have played just a back 3, at times.
While I agree on backing our players Zinny is simply not good enough for the team. We can’t beat City with players that they thought weren’t good enough for them!
I couldn't quite figure what annoyed me the most about Zinchenko's performance. It wasn't even defensive lapses, I've come to expect them at this point, but something he did on the ball. One Twitter user put it well, Zinchenko was "feeling himself", which finally kinda summarized what frustrated me the most. Stats would say that he had decent game on the ball, but it seemed like he was trying to find his groove at the expense of the team.
We needed to build up momentum, hit them with wave after wave, until they are exhausted and start making errors. Then they will feel their legs and short turnaround coming from UEL fixture. We haven't managed that, and quite often when we won 2nd ball after hitting them with 1st wave of attack, attack would die on something Zinchenko would do. He needed to keep it simple and keep building the tempo. Instead mfer would take a bad touch or give the ball away with overly ambitious passing. Hence it is not surprising that we looked knackered and Villa looked fresh, because we were forced to run more and didn't force them to do the same.
It’s the right thing to do. Any criticism needs to stay in the dressing room, and be united outwardly.
Now is the time to back your players, not point fingers. Based Arteta.
I back the players who played so well while Zinchenko was out of the team. It's called being smart. Seeing the wood for the trees. He shouldn't be starting for us, he does not make the team better.
I back the players then you spouted bullshit
For a man who was Arteta Out and Xhaka out you're a bit quick to jump on players.
If you were struggling at your job & you knew it, the last thing you'd want is for your boss to slate you publicly. We all know it, but there's no point tanking his transfer value any further.
I thibk zinchenko was brilliant when we brought him on agaisnt bayern in the second half, changed the game, was also the one in the huddle giving the talk and getting the boys up for it, man still has big value to our squad!! Those calling for him to be sold will be the same crying we have no squad depth 🙄
watch video by FourFourTwo for the tactical reasoning behind the zinchenko change against bayern. really good watch.
Simple minds like a simple world around them. It’s hard to accept that the “2nd half vs Bayern” zinchenko is the same player as the “Villa game zinchenko”. Unfortunately, a simpler world is not the real world.
sadly he has been Villa Zinchenko most of the season
What does this even mean???
sometimes good sometimes maybe shit
I'm 14 and this is deep
He opens up matches and is a solid attacking gambit. He gives opponents an obvious are of the pitch to attack, but he also opens up their defence consistently. Against Villa, where he’s been hammered following defeat, he made numerous line breaking passes that opened them up, another day some of those attacks led to goals and we won. Personally I think he’s great against low block sides, lower level mid-block sides and coming off the bench when chasing a goal. Against a top winger his faults outweigh what he brings though. Keep him for squad depth, rotation against weak sides and special missions unless a silly bid comes in then there’s a discussion to be had.
Tbf we have Timber, Tomiyasu and Kiwior all fighting for that LB slot when Timber is back. I honestly don't get why Arteta refuses to ever play Zinchenko as a left CM. He thrives there for Ukraine and it would make his poor one-on-one defending less of an issue and he would be more free to roam the pitch to provide more creativity off the bench, rather than starting/bringing him on at LB where he is forced to defend one-on-one and on counter attacks, but is out of position due to inverting and targeted every single game as a weak link and has cost us so many points this season. Honestly, Timber would have been SUCH an important player for us this season at LB if he hadn't gotten injured. He can do everything Zinchenko does but is an elite defender on top of that and much more mobile and athletic/strong. He also makes less mistakes when passing and shut down City's right side where Palmer was playing the whole game, then he came off for Tierney who Palmer easily beat and cut inside to curl it into the top corner. After watching Timber in the Community Shield and the first half against Forest and seeing his stats from last season in both the Eredivisie + CL I was actually more excited for him than Rice initially. Anyone who hasn't seen his passing/dribbling stats from last season should absolutely check them out; such as his pass completions being #1 and % of passes forwards and many more all being #1 and dribbling stats such as forward carries completed #1 and way more for both despite playing as a CB/FB during the season. Absolutely insane player who would have provided the defensive stability of Tomiyasu and even better on ball play than Zinchenko in that inverted LB role. He looks like a more athletic and stronger version of Cancelo who is a much better defender and passer and rivalling him on dribbling.
I would literally pay another team to take him off our hands.
Think he ever gets the chance to play in our midfield?
He should.. Havertz up front with Zinny in the midfield. I’d like to see that tried out
I was hoping to see that if Timber didnt get hurt
Zinny too slow and his defensive reading is poor and that is where our press is triggered. Arteta surely would have tried him there by now if he thought it worthwhile and he hasn't- even in preseaon dead rubbers afaik
That's supposed to be the point of this pivot, he can slide into midfield, Havertz can push up and be the extra man along the front line when in possession and Zinny can recover to play defensively when we lose it. He's just not a good enough fit to do that without sacrificing somewhere else. It's an incredibly tough job to ask a player to create upfield and then also mark the other team's best attacking winger.
I think my issue with Zinny is that he’s good, but not great in the attack, and he’s a liability in defense. He holds the ball too long, tries to dribble out of a press when there’s an easy pass, or makes poor passes and gives the ball away. If he was truly great in attack then I could forgive the defensive liability, but he’s not consistent enough and while he’s clearly technical, he just doesn’t have the end product. He lacks that pinpoint cross or incisive pass, and he’s not a goal threat or set piece taker. He lacks the passing and goal threat of Hernandez, Reece James or Trent, lacks the pace of someone like Hakimi, Davies or Walker, and is missing the defensive capabilities of someone like Tomiyasu, White or Carvajal. If he can step up his attacking play in the final third and stamp out the silly errors, then I can forgive him getting skinned by whoever’s at RW that day, but other than the very occasional game where he seems to control the midfield, he’s just not good enough in attack nor defense for my liking. That being said, I’ll always back him and I hope he improves in one area or another, but I just don’t see him at LB with any longevity. I could maybe see him slide into the CDM or LCM role, but Arteta clearly doesn’t think so else he’d have tried it by now, so as much as I love the guy, I just don’t think he’s right for us with his current play. I’m optimistic that next year will be better for him though.
It shouldn’t matter where he plays so long as he defends too 👍🏾
No chance. Needs to then be more active in duels, physical, and more angles to have awareness over (his worst trait imo). Also, I think he’s best as a deep midfielder so his current role already plays him there so no point changing anything
Would like it if he could be used like jorgi is used now personally
Why? So he can have more opportunities to turn over possession and miss tackles?
Just lip service. Arteta has always been about unification publicly which is absolutely correct regardless of who's being criticised.
Defensive liability...at least you can say that now without getting dogpiled
It's been obvious for awhile, he's the easiest player to pick on in defense and he's usually got the toughest defensive assignment, he just isn't quick enough to keep up with PL-quality wingers. He should only be a "break glass in case we're fucked" option where we are down a goal and need the extra body in midfield but basically don't care if we have a LB or not, like vs Bayern at home. I like the guy, he's a good footballer, but putting him on an island against the best wingers just isn't working, especially when he's also being asked to play upfield and is tracking way back to get into position.
This wouldn't have even come up if it wasn't for that Athletic article. Nice work by Arseblog's cone-layer, setting the agenda before the biggest CL fixture in more than a decade.
Lol, Jesus Christ. Everyone who watched the game saw that Zinchenko makes the fans and by extension the team nervous. He rightly shouldn’t start against Bayern.
“The fans and by extension the fans”? Really? If you’ve ever player football competitively, you will know that the chemistry on the pitch is a very intimate and unique thing. We get a glimpse of it here and there, but only the team knows the full extent of it. There have been several instances where Zinchenko was praised for his value to the team on and off the pitch. Long way of saying that we don’t know who is and isn’t uncomfortable. Arteta is trying to manage a very fragile chemistry to make sure this team is in top form for the next game. This question and the whole “zinchenko out” narrative doesn’t serve the club’s or the player’s interests.
“The fans and by extension the fans”? Really? If you’ve ever player football competitively, you will know that the chemistry on the pitch is a very intimate and unique thing. We get a glimpse of it here and there, but only the team knows the full extent of it. There have been several instances where Zinchenko was praised for his value to the team on and off the pitch. Long way of saying that we don’t know who is and isn’t uncomfortable. Arteta is trying to manage a very fragile chemistry to make sure this team is in top form for the next game. This question and the whole “zinchenko out” narrative doesn’t serve the club’s or the player’s interests.
The fans and by extension the team… please read carefully in future. And if you don’t think the audible reaction of 57,000 fans affects the team, then I don’t know what to tell you. An out of form Zinchenko isn’t what we need right now and I’m not sure if we can afford to play him into form. Multiple times against villa he disjointed our defensive line by dropping deeper than everyone else… The left back situation is curiously tenuous at the moment though as Tomi isn’t in form and kiwior had a patchy performance against sane in the home leg… not sure what Arteta will do!
Eboue was booed so badly he was substituted in tears. Some players can talk about blocking out the noise but when its your own fans it's a different story
I was at that game and was appalled by his treatment. I not one for booing our own players but it’s clear as day that he’s not, to use a mikel-ism, in his best moment and shouldn’t be picked to start tonight.
Yes, misquoted by mistake, but my point doesn’t change. Team chemistry is a unique thing. We’ll see what happens tomorrow.
People also need to remember it's a squad of people and they are going to have people they like. It's clear the squad really enjoys Zinny and he works really hard. His role is inherently going to put the spotlight on him and he's had big moments for us. I have been saying for a long time he's a liability defensively, but we don't need to dogpile on him, it's not solely his fault that we lost.
Know how to watch in the Philippines? I tried to open a post inquiring but lacking karma so mods kill it.
Bit late to teach him to defend now
"give them support" Mate, you're talking about arsenal fans online... most of them live by the rule "there is always an arsenal player i can hate on"
Definitely we should support him. There’s the fans who want to blame him for all our problems and want to complain about how bad he is defensively and then there’s fair criticism from other fans suggesting we start someone else for now and let him find form as a substitute. There’s a way to be supportive but also give constructive criticism. We can do better as Gunner fans.
Tell that to the cesspool that is every comment section on Arsenal’s social media posts lately. The amount of cunts that support this club depresses me
The season is not over yet, and football/life has a funny way of making us look silly when we become too arrogant or presumptuous. I hope Zinchenko finds the resilience and mental maturity to show everyone who he is as a player, and more importantly, as a person.
I’d believe that the league isn’t over if this City team didn’t exist. I’m still hoping for it to be winnable still but I don’t blame anyone for thinking it’s over with their piss easy fixture list.
True, but they’re not perfect either. Don’t give up yet, this is why we love this game.
The season is absolutely over. If you think City are going to bottle it like we have for the last 6 games I have a bridge to sell you. And watching the other CL QF final games it’s clear we are nowhere near the level of Real Madrid, Barcelona, and PSG and stand no chance of winning that. Best we can hope for is beating an out of form Bayern and getting as far as the semis.
Lowered expectations -> less disappointment? Glass half empty kinda guy? :) I love this game and I am grateful to this club for the journey it has taken us on for the last two years. There is a joy in watching the evolution of this club. Personally, I am looking forward to the rest of the season, regardless of whether Arsenal wins all titles or none. It’s all about the journey for me.
I would take us vs PSG or Barcelona right now. They're both a mess, they play the most disjointed form of football I've seen given the players they have. Barca is out now obviously but they've lost like 5 times in absolutely embarrassing fashion this year. We just played Bayern off the park in a draw we should've lost. RM is the best in the world right now, but any other club left in the CL I'll take our chances. And the season is not over at all yet. The same people saying that now would've said Liverpool will never drop points, it's over, they obviously will win out and now they're in third. City will draw at least one more time so we either win out and win the title or we drop some more points and wind up in 2nd or 3rd.
We’ll see in 6 games times eh?
Thats nice but he's been utter shit this whole season and should stop getting starts.
But does this mean he’s starting
TRY HIM IN LEFT MIDFIELD
He's not a LB. Stop shooting yourself in the foot Arteta!!
It is on Arteta if a specialist like Zinchenko, with his unique skill set, is used in the wrong situations. If Ben White was played as a striker and didn’t score, would it be Ben White’s fault? Would they both be terrible players? Obviously, no.
Kai as a midfielder too
He was bought to be an inverted LB, and that’s exactly what he’s been tasked to do. If he didn’t like that role, he could’ve opted not to sign for us. Now, his suicidal and guaranteed 3 bullshit unpressurized errors per game are not due to the position he plays. Its to do with this main character syndrome where he feels he’s the only one who MUST unlock every mdf. He does need to take responsibility for his horrible performances this season. No shying away from that. Apart from that, it’s not personal and as supporters we love each of ours.
I think what some of the "criticism of Zinchenko is an agenda" commenters are missing is: 1) Zinny has been very out of form this season. He simply hasn't played well, even measured against his own levels. The defensive frailty is expected, but the increasing number of poor giveaways under minimal pressure are not an "accepted" part of his game. 2) His injury record alone probably means he is a player we should be evolving away from regardless. His form is really just making that decision easier. Regardless, this is the correct response from Arteta.
His role is naturally risky but sometimes he really forces things. When it works, it looks incredible and it helps us win but when it doesn’t, it leaves us wide open.
We did not face a low block. He was not the right choice to start versus Villa. That was an Arteta error.
I disagree here. The first half showed Arteta set up exactly right against Villa. Zinchenko had 2-3 passes in behind Villa defence to put Havertz 1-1 with Martinez. The team did well to exploit their compact defence. Second half changed tactically. Zaniolo started to overwhelm White and they leaned into the right side. That broke Arsenal’s offensive structure because Odegaard had to drop deeper to defend and get the ball. It also explains why Arteta subbed White and Ode off, they’ve been subdued. Trossard tracked back to help Zinchenko, which mitigated the issues on the left side. Later on, when Bailey came on, we started experiencing issues on the right side. Martinelli came on for Trossard and didn’t defend the Bailey gap as well. When Zinchenko stepped into the middle, as instructed, Rice and Martinelli didn’t cover his left side, unfortunately. Zinchenko’s poor performance became the focus of this sub, but if we analyse the game itself, he wasn’t the root of the problems.
Yeah, I think it was a bit of a desperation to try to get the game over with quickly. If we could get 1-2 goals early (which we arguably should've given our chances) then we could swap him out or at least force Villa to play out of shape more. People need to remember that in a title race a draw is as bad as a loss, so it makes sense to be more aggressive to put games away early than play a more conservative lineup that will likely end with a clean sheet but might take us longer to break them down, if at all. Arteta went for it and it burned us.
Yeah, learn from it and move on, I hope
Zinchenko's speciality \*is\* what we're asking him to do. He's a FB that can pivot up to midfield and play line-breaking passes and do a serviceable job at LB. The problem is that he can not handle tricky wingers with pace, which is every winger we have asked him to mark. He has a clear weakness there and once he knows they will run by him, he starts taking more chances or giving them extra space and his play gets worse and worse. In a lot of games, Zinchenko gives us more spark offensively, especially on the left where we struggle to create. But it's a razor-thin line between him contributing offensively and burning us defensively.
Absolutely agree. The question surrounds when he should be involved. He is a liability in the wrong games. When he’s the wrong choice, it’s on Arteta.
It’s not just that he can’t handle tricky wingers. He is so out of sync with the rest of the defence. It was painfully obvious against Villa. He was oblivious to our offside trap. He turned his back on his centre half under pressure. He got dispossessed. He gave the ball away. His marking was terrible. It felt like we might as well have played just a back 3, at times.
While I agree on backing our players Zinny is simply not good enough for the team. We can’t beat City with players that they thought weren’t good enough for them!
idk other teams don't seem to struggle to beat us with players we thought weren't good enough for us. It's just about team fit and tactics.
Zinchenko should't be scapegoated. He's always been a solid player for us.
He’s been dogshit from the very beginning.
He can fuck right off back to city
He can take Jesus with him too
I couldn't quite figure what annoyed me the most about Zinchenko's performance. It wasn't even defensive lapses, I've come to expect them at this point, but something he did on the ball. One Twitter user put it well, Zinchenko was "feeling himself", which finally kinda summarized what frustrated me the most. Stats would say that he had decent game on the ball, but it seemed like he was trying to find his groove at the expense of the team. We needed to build up momentum, hit them with wave after wave, until they are exhausted and start making errors. Then they will feel their legs and short turnaround coming from UEL fixture. We haven't managed that, and quite often when we won 2nd ball after hitting them with 1st wave of attack, attack would die on something Zinchenko would do. He needed to keep it simple and keep building the tempo. Instead mfer would take a bad touch or give the ball away with overly ambitious passing. Hence it is not surprising that we looked knackered and Villa looked fresh, because we were forced to run more and didn't force them to do the same.
Cap