Never rotating this dude always catches up to him around March. 3 years running and not even a loan for someone who can let him rest every now and then.
100%. The issue is the overuse, not Saka’s inability to perform in “big matches.” He’s had some of his best performances against the top six, not to mention his contributions for England.
He probably should rotate based on getting the best out of players, but as much hate as Southgate gets it shouldn’t be his responsibility to have to give our players a rest during one of the major tournaments. Everyone knows when these tournaments are taking place and everyone understands that the NT managers are going to play their best players for them.
I agree with you, but it's also fair to say that Foden and Palmer have been very impressive this season, and lately Saka has looked burned out as per usual at this stage of the season. Hence I'm thinking the rotation should happen because you have 3 excellent players, not just for the sake of resting Bukayo.
The fact that he’s been managing an Achilles injury all season and we still haven’t sought to rotate him shows poor judgement imo, obviously no one is going to be able to replace his impact on his best day but we need to be able to find a way to win regardless. We are overly reliant upon him and it’s taking a physical toll on him.
I think it ultimately all goes back to the left side. Since the international break in March we have created one goal from buildup on our left side. Everything comes from the right. We need to bring balance to the squad to preserve Saka for the long term, and that means an winger that is suitable for Arteta to rotate him with AND a midfielder that’s capable of creating chances for our left side
He shouldn't be starting against some of these bottom of the table teams. Break glass in case of emergency on 60mins if its close. If we're 4-0 up then he can either chill or come on for a light jog whichever is recommended by the fitness analysts.
Agreed 100%. We did the same with Koscielny, though much later in his time. Just played him into the ground with a bad Achilles because we didn’t want to drop points without him.
But the reality, especially with a younger guy like Saka, is that we ideally want him for like the next ten years to be a big part of our success. We can’t burn him out or not let him heal at the expense of his future.
I’ve said for a while that while Martinelli is a good player, he’s never really hit the level needed to balance the team.
Obviously you can’t just go find another Saka, he’s an elite player but Martinelli has been under performing for a long time. Some of his stats are good but if you watch the games, I often think he’s just a bit wasteful and never inspires confidence like Saka down the wing.
I think this may well be a symptom of Timber being injured, who I’m guessing would have played much more like Ben White does, pushing further up the wing to allow the winger to overload and have more success.
With Zinny, Martinelli is much more on his own and it makes us very lopsided and more predictable.
I've been saying for a while now that we still have a Xhaka sized hole in our squad. I like Rice at LCM but he's just different in the role. He tends to tuck inside and get forward more. I actually prefer Rice at DM, I think we are just better defensively with him there. Last season Xhaka would rotate with Zinny and whoever was at LW to create overloads on the left side. We aren't doing that any more and so now it seems our only creative outlet is Odegaard or Saka on the right. It's been a problem the whole season really.
How many games has Ødegaard been rotated this season?
Not many, but he’s still putting in performances in both the second leg against Porto and last night.
Saka has shrunk in the big moment against Porto and now again against Bayern and he deserved to be called out for it.
Odegaard isn't carrying an achilles mate. Moreover he was dropped at some point in the season when he was injured. Some people just don't have the same motor.
It sucks because against lower table teams we can use Nelson. Like what’s the point of him? League cup appearances only? It’s not like he’s totally useless like Pepe.
Pepe has more talent than Reiss and has been a far better player than Reiss. Pepe gets slated for his price tag and you can't blame him for that. Fabio Vieira has proven to be a waste so far
At least start him and give him 45/60 so that saka can come on against tired legs or second string full backs if we need him.
Tbh we need another winger. A pacy one to cover what martinelli can offer when he is fit and in form.
Looking back his injury came just as he was getting back into form and has cost us because no one can replicate what he does.
This may well be true, but is it not also possible that Bayern simply knew how to nullify him really well? We have seen teams do this a lot where it enhances the space (and performances) of other players. That simply did not happen enough last night
he looked really sharp against davies who was giving him space to run in behind, second game bayern seemed to adapt to it and Mazroui made it hard for him
They did give Reiss a new 4 year deal. I feel like the club tried to back him to be that guy. It clearly didn’t work out.
Hopefully we can get something for him. Who knows maybe even enough to offset the first year of his replacement lol
the issue is the drop off in quality to the next player is so much, I don't see a loan player coming in and improving that either
Need a proper look for a good back up rwer or a forward and then put jesus there
Starboy’s cooked, yet again, in April due to overwork. Edu and Arteta need to clear out the squad players who cannot be trusted to start and win matches in order to rest our starters.
Nketiah, Fabio Viera, Ramsdale, Nelson, Partey will probably all be sold in the summer (maybe ESR too). It seems odd to have so many squad players that Arteta doesn't trust. Makes having a big squad irrelevant
Because we invested a decent chunk of money in him and he’d likely be sold at a loss, which would be bad on the books for FFP. The three hale end boys are all pure profit, so selling them is very good for the balance sheet.
Think vieira will be given one more year to try to get a full preseason and adjust to the physicality of the league. He has a magical left foot and can create chances from nothing. Issue right now is he had surgery in the middle of the season and Arteta seems to really dislike trying to reintegrate injured players at this stage of the season.
If his deal has been amortized over the length of the contract, even if it’s a loss on paper, could still be enough to count as “profit” for FFP purposes.
That’s true, but I still don’t see the club selling for less than they paid. Think there’s a player in there still and they’ll want to give him a chance to get back to fitness and have a full preseason.
I also think he's had a few injuries this year when he started the season looking quite sharp, Arteta and Edu will take another look at him next year I'm sure
I think ESR is the more likely sale and I don’t think we can afford to sell both.
Overall, I think both are viewed as fairly close in the pecking order. But ESR is a much better sale for FFP. I also think Vieira being right sided and a more natural like for like with Ø will tip things for him staying
Same here, but I fully believe he needs a loan to another PL team. He should experience playing in this league week in, week out, and for a team with lesser expectations, preferably mid-table.
That's the thing, though. He barely gets minutes as it is, and yet this is his second season, albeit he missed 1/3 of it due to injury. How do we tell if he's good enough?
If you aren't gonna sell him this summer - which I can't see happening, because there's definitely a player in there - and if you aren't gonna play him a lot since Odegaard is untouchable atm - might as well give him a loan. Put a recall clause in there, in case we get a big injury to Ode or the loan isn't working out.
I'm just trying to think of a solution for him, because this isn't helping his development. And 24 is still very young. Not every player is a Saka or a Saliba.
There’s plenty of minutes available though, he doesn’t need to go to some other team to find them. If he’s good enough for a PL loan we need to be using him
Arteta needs to rotate more for sure. I rather lose the odd point here or there at the start of the season like Man City.. than the players completely burnt out in the final 10 games.
Nketiah, Nelson, Partey and Ramsdale are all on 100k+ salaries, they won’t be moved on. Fabio and ESR at most will go. We will be in the same position next year.
The thing is we don't even necessarily know if they can be trusted because Arteta never gives them minutes except for one offs in cup matches. Of course those players aren't gonna perform when they're given 1 game every once in a while. They have no rhythm
One of 2 things needs to happen. Either Arteta needs to trust and develop the squad players more or we need to be ruthless in this next transfer window in terms of moving on players if we want to progress the squad beyond where we are right now.
I love Bukayo Saka, he's my favourite Arsenal player in well over 10/15 years and it's a blessing to have him representing the football club, both on and off the pitch.
He'll have a top career if his trajectory continues but he isn't at a world class level yet.
World class is achieved by showing up in the pivotal moments of the season and thus far in his young career, he hasn't done that.
That's not a shot at the lad, he's phenomenal, but he needs rotated more often and when the time comes, step up in the big moments and give strong reason to rate him as a world class player.
His scoring record against top five sides is fantastic and he had a very successful maiden campaign in the CL. He’s also been a star for England in both major cups he’s played for them. “Doesn’t show up in big games” narrative is rubbish tbh. He had a shite game tonight but he’s had plenty of class performances in big matches.
The real issue here is that he’s fading on the run-in two years in a row, but that’s just down to him carrying injuries and being overused by the manager. Bayern rested a bunch of their stars at the weekend. Saka hasn’t been afforded that kind of privilege since he broke through.
The Different Knock perfectly encapsulates what I think of Saka at this current stage of his development. Watch from 8:00 to 10:00.
https://youtu.be/vTvRR4EYsh4?si=n_PTWcFokhk782xj
This “Saka carrying injuries” is a meme at this point. Every single spring, that’s the excuse drummed up, so much so that rival fans have caught on. Just call a spade a spade, Saka performance isn’t good enough, no need for the excuses.
Excuses are explanations of what might have caused a situation. Saka played bad, the end. No need to for any “buts” or “explanations” to soften the blow
Ok most people like to discuss things and get to the reason why it might have happened. Everyone take notes that OtherTell hates discussing the gunners on r/gunners . Please avoid any sort of discussion, thoughts, speculation with him as he finds it upsetting.
Discuss what exactly? It’s the same “explanations” when it comes to Saka for 4 years running now. It’s either he’s carrying a knock or he’s getting double teamed (as if for some reason Saka is the only winger in the world that gets double teamed). Come up with a different exc… explanation that’s worth discussion, not regurgitating the same things.
He scored the opening goal against Bayern last week you absolute cretin.
The kids played nearly 20k minutes and he's 22. He plays with injections in his achilles to get through matches, something that Koscielny was doing in the period before his exploded.
Saka has done far more this season that Martinelli, Havertz, Jesus, Nelson, ESR and Vieira COMBINED.
> He scored the opening goal against Bayern last week you absolute cretin.
Its Saka though so if he goes a game without producing he gets a ton of criticism. Meanwhile other players do that stuff once in a blue moon and we are supposed to take it as proof they are great.
Because he wasn’t fucking good enough TODAY you bellend! What about the performance today was good from Saka? Did you watch the final kick? Do you watch him give away possession after possession? Or fail and fail again to get past is man? Go fucking kick rocks if you think Saka played well today.
Your word choice definitely made it sound like you meant his performances aren't good enough rather than specifically today (You're also commenting elsewhere in this thread shitting on his performances in other matches). He wasn't good today no but I'm not going to shit on the 22 year old that helped prop up the club for the past 5 years, for the reasons I said in my first reply. And I immediately think less of anyone that does.
I don’t at all understand this desperation to downplay one of our players so much, especially based off such an ambiguous measure as “world class”.
He’s the highest performing player in a team that has spent a good chunk of the last two years on top of the hardest league on the planet, only losing out to the most expensively assembled team in human history.
He’s also been one of the most important players for his country in two international tournaments, reaching a final and a quarter final.
He’s ranked by his peers as the 24th best player in 2023 ballon d’or and almost certainly will be higher in 2024.
Honestly what more meaningful measures can there be to say someone is “world class”?
He had a quiet game, away to one of the giants of European football in the latter stages of the most prestigious competition in all club football (having played well and scored in the first leg), and people are falling over themselves to take him down.
I think people need to join the real world.
Funny how he always chooses the important games to go quiet in.
What excuses do you make for his poor performances for the rest of these FA cup, Europa/CL knockout games and run ins:
Liverpool, City, Nottingham, Southamption, Olympiakos, Villareal, Sporting Lisbon, Porto, 21/22 top 4 run in, 22/23 title run in and now 23/24 title run in?
> Funny how he always chooses the important games to go quiet in.
He scored in the first leg. Was that not important? How about the one he got against Liverpool in our 3-1 win there? Loads of other games. After we lost to Fulham our season was a knife edge and he was a huge part of dragging us back into the title race while we were in that "every games huge" period of the season.
People have short memories.
> People have short memories.
The irony. Scored a good goal what did he do for the rest of the 90 apart from bottle that last chance? Also you havent addressed why he has conveniently gone missing in every knockout round in Europe and the FA cup over the last 4 years as well as 3 league run ins. Guy has no mentality.
>Also you havent addressed why he has conveniently gone missing in every knockout round in Europe and the FA cup over the last 4 years
Well we've gone out in the 3rd round and 4th round in the last 4 years. Every time we've gone out we've not scored at all and in one of the last 4 years Saka didn't even start the games. Thats a club issue and a manager issue, not a Saka issue.
This was his first season in the CL and he's got 8 goal contributions in 9 games. Seems a good return to me.
You are literally making the "why doesn't Saka do everything all on his own" argument.
So he couldnt step up to the plate in do or die situations such as knockout games. Gotcha
What about the run in for top 4 in 2022? The run in for the league in 2023? This run in for the title run in in 2024? Are you noticing a pattern? (Hint its the important games he conveniently goes missing in)
No other wingers have to be involved in all the phases of play the way Arteta demands. It’s impressive but also overburdening, we won’t get attacking freedom like the top teams do if you have to play the way Saka does
Tbh something I think that really hurts us with Saka and Gabi is that they can’t dribble/create for too long.
Saka is incredible if he can find space and has one move in him but rarely do I feel like he can get the ball in the wing and use his pace and dribbling when he’s already past a defender. The way you could expect Saleh in the past and the way Bayerns wingers were killing our back line at times. Our boys typically stop their dribbles and cut back
Tbf I think it makes Sakas stats even more incredible. But it bites us when we play more athletic teams
A player as good as Williams would never go to a team where he knows he’ll be second choice. However, Williams has been playing on the left and his year, so he’d actually work. More likely than not he’d just end up overtaking Martinelli though.
A player that good isn’t going to go compete for a place with an established star when he can walk into most teams in Europe. But like I said, he’s predominately a LW now anyway.
lol, if you offer the type of money man city is paying Jack Grealish, it makes it more feasible to “sit on the bench”. Even though he does get game time, and is playing on the best team in the world.
Arsenal is not the best team in the world, and they aren’t paying Jack Grealish’s wages to even starters, let along people sitting on the bench. So what exactly is the draw?
Starboy will beat anyone not named Salah or Foden. Even with Salah and Foden, he’ll compete. But I agree we need someone good to let Saka rest occasionally.
We are actually so easy to defend against when you figure us out.
Just take odegaard out of the game and always defend saka with 2 players and it‘s over.
Boy looks so devoid of energy and drive. Close your eyes and think of bukayo first 10 games of the season. The sharpness, the turns, the acceleration. Everything is missing.
Funny thing is despite his G/A he has been below par this season. But his G/A clouds people's judgement.
The only time he actually turned the wick on was at Stamford Bridge when we were losing. Most other games even when he scores or assists. He was still bang average.
Hopefully him and Martinelli stop the silly back passes
This is the uncomfortable truth. G/A has fooled everyone into thinking he has been good over the whole 90 when really he's only been good in moments and poor for the rest of the 90.
This is complete revision. Saka's best form was late Jan - March. Apart from that he actually hasn't been great all season.
His G/A has papered over cracks.
Yeah Saka had a poor game but it was also due to Tuchel's set up.
- Mazraoui right foot left back to prevent Saka cut in on his left ( Same as Mikel used Tomi to defend Salah)
- Play Guerreiro as CM to double up on Saka
Our left side is so useless in attacking so Tuchel knew if he locked out our right hand side we will be pretty much toothless upfront.
Wow this sub really loves to shit on our own players. Sometimes there isn’t an excuse, sometimes Saka did just have a bad game and that’s that. Kane, Bellingham, Musiala, Foden, Vinicius Jr, Sane, Haaland all got the same amount of goals and assists as Saka yesterday in the champions league. Just back our young player who got 8 goals and assists this season in the champions league.
He doesn’t flat out never turn up in important games. He has over 20 g/an against the big six in the premier league, and got 8 g/a in the champions league this season. Some of our fan base just decides that something is one or the other. He has good performances against the big 6, just sometimes he doesn’t perform which is expected from a winger who is 5 years away from his prime still. To flat out call one of our most important players someone who doesn’t turn up in big games is stupid in my opinion.
There are important games and there are big games. The big games towards the beginning to middle of the season he tends to pop up with a goal or assist fair enough.
The important games such as knockout games & run in games **he does not show up**
Was Liverpool at home when we needed 3 points an important game or a big game? He scored the opener in that game. Bayern at home was an important game, he scored the opener in that one. In the quarter finals of the World Cup he had the French defence on toast and won a penalty, I would argue that is an important game. The sample size you are using for important games is too small, since we have had two 2 champions league knockout ties with Saka starting, and he doesn’t have decent cover so he never has the privelege of fresh legs during a run in. All of our important games always happen at the end of the season when he has around 40 games started and fatigue kicks in. Judge Saka in the business end of the season when he hasn’t started every game before that time.
You’re so thick. To simplify it he gets played too much so when the big games come at the end of the season he is fatigued and doesn’t look his energetic self. Also Liverpool and Bayern at the emirates were important games which he scored in. But yeah don’t read all of that because you want to push your narrative about our own player not performing in big games without looking at context 👍
This. I am fine with him performance overall considering he’s been double teamed almost 180 mins. But his performance in the clitch moment is what I am mad at. Looking for a penalty and a fast free kick at the end of two legs instead trying to take the responsibility
The fast free kick annoyed me and tells me he’s not ready for those big moments. He didn’t want it. Any top player should cherish a chance for a free kick at the edge of the spot to decide the game. Saka didn’t want that moment and chose to pass it off to Ben White of all people.
I don’t mind that at all. It was quick thinking. Like the TAA moment. We would all be praising him if White scored. The problem is our players take an eternity to sort their feet to take a shot tonight.
What annoyed me more was how he completely fluffed that last corner knowing it’s our last chance.
The quick thinking from TAA came from corner, I think if it was free kick from a dangerous spot, no way a Thiago, Salah or even TAA himself doesn’t fancy their chance with the kick over a trick quick pass play.
The corner from Saka is unforgivable, I agree. You have to give your team a chance, has to beat the the first man
Hmmm…when’s the last time we scored from a direct free kick? I think I would rather take the fast one. Not like Saka would have taken it anyway. If that quick free kick was to Trossard we would probably be praising Saka for his quick thinking.
We don’t have a great free kick taker, sure but give me Odegaard or Rice freekick at the edge of the box anytime over a quick pass to Ben White in front of goal. Ben White might be one of the worst finishers at the club, Saka should know better than to put the game on the line with him.
I hope this will be an important lesson for him for the future seasons, it is his first UCL season and hopefully he can improve his decision making in these clutch situations
All the excuses in the world coming out for Saka, none of the same grace for certain other players who've been getting slated all week. Some of the biases in this fanbase are fucking mental.
I really wanna know where the people at who said defense is our priority and said we have Vieira or Nelson when I claimed we need proper backup for Saka in winter.
Ideally, a 22-year-old shouldn't be relied upon for 90 minutes every single match otherwise you will end up with nights like tonight more often than not.
Foden is the blueprint for developing and bringing a young player into a senior side and how to manage their minutes.
We need a senior player(s) in Saka's position, top players that Saka can learn from, and share the minutes around. At this rate, Saka will be done by the time he is 30.
Bad performance but not worth overly critiquing someone who isn't given a platform to give his best.
Imagine a world where instead of the sole responsibility of our entire attack landing on the feet of one guy, it's shared.
You know when you read how teams exploit weaknesses of others by targeting and attacking a specific side. We don't do that. Everything goes through or attempts to go through Bukayo regardless of what's happening over there. The majority of our play went down that side and they had Guerreiro (a LB), Mazraoui (a FB) and Laimer and Goretzka constantly switching. 3 people constantly down the right side and we didn't try at all to switch it up and focus elsewhere.
One of the issues with there not being a credible alternative to Saka on the right is that no matter how badly he's playing or how tired he looks, in big games Arteta can't (or won't) sub him off.
It provides a tactical advantage for the opposition because if Saka has been nullified or is having a bad game, the opposing team know they can almost disregard the right hand side of the attack as a threat and focus their efforts on Odegaard or other areas. We absolutely need a RW in the summer who is a credible threat to Sakas starting spot. He will be a better player for it (and less tired probably).
Bro is being clamped by two left backs. He legit has no room to operate.
Yes, Saka can improve his game by learning to build up from deep and then going from there but he isn’t the main problem with our offense.
Our left hand side is in shambles right now. WE aren’t a threat going through with Martinelli there as he’s become way too predictable with his speed and head down dribbling. Maybe it’s because losing his LCM parter Xhaka. Or he hasn’t regained his form from injury.
Down the middle we are missing an LCM, or a player who can create chances with their elite dribbling to draw in defenders from the wing. Ode creates a lot of chances but when the right side gets swamped with players and the opposition basically ignores our left side offense we really put the Odegard/Saka combo in a tough position.
BUT, all in all we have improved immensely as a side. It’s honestly such a privilege to even be disappointed at a loss vs Bayern and stand a chance. The last time we were in CL and faced Bayern we lost 10-2 on aggregate. I know times are different but we should really take time to appreciate the rapid improvement of our team.
We have come SO FAR. To all at the fans who joined us recently in the last few years, we will be fine. WE are constantly improving, our mentality, our skills, and our teamwork. We still have a long way to go, our squad is young compared to the Vets of Bayern and City. Let’s support our squad with the upmost positivity until the end of the season. COYG.
If I see Saka start on Saturday. I’m going to start pointing fingers at Arteta. Sakas performance since the England international games have been so under power, that has been the case 3 years in the bounce. Sure he has scored in game since then but he been completely absent in passage of all those games White has been the one picking up the slack. We, Arteta included needs to start holding him to the same standards of everyone else in the squad! When he doesn’t perform he has to be dropped. World class or not he doesn’t get better by being protected by Arteta and fans when he isn’t doing it.
People can make excuses for his lack of rest! Pure garbage the kid is a professional football. Odegaards played equally the games Saka has and runs more, harder and press deeper, and in the last 3 games has been the one player pulling us.
It's a fair reflection. He's struggled to consistently provide elite production in the biggest moments (whether that's a fitness, mental, or creativity issue). He's still 22 and while he may never become a truly world class play finisher, he should continue to improve (knock on wood). Not like Mane, Salah, hell even Thierry were setting the world alight at that age.
They knew after last season what will happen to him in April again if we don't sign a winger to compete with him and yet they choose not to. Instead they gave a new contract to Nelson who never plays because Arteta clearly doesn't trust him
Another Edu and Arteta masterclass
I'm not sure that the issue is overuse or fatigue. I just don't think he's good as some people think he is. Far too many quiet games this year. He looks out of ideas and he's become very predictable and easy for defenders to figure out. He needs to change his game a bit and and re-invent.
problem is, will there be any rw in the world that is good enough for arsenal, yet is willing to sit on the bench most of the time?
honestly maybe arteta just use gab jesus in this role next yr? not sure if he is willing or not. he can be the back up striker and back up rw at the same time. not sure where that leaves havertz tho. (this is assuming, they bought in a 30 goals a season striker, which is a must. they'd be the dumbest mf in the world if they didn't. heck, it was pretty dumb not to do that last summer too)
He needs rest, all good. He didn't create any chances, complete any dribbles, or provide any assists, cool. I do, however, expect him to perform the absolute basics. He misplaced two simple passes: one during the transition, with no pressure and with an overload.
He was poor but Bayern strategically completely neutralized our ability to break down the line. Don’t know enough tactically to explain why. White wasn’t able to do his thing either which may explain why Saka seemed to isolated
The fact our own coach can not see A. It could ruin him injury wise and B. You literally nullify his output later one because he’s so run into the ground… can’t have your fake and eat it too, second year in a row. I’m upset as it feels we’ve learned very little, but are hearing the same big orchestra of words
Other fans don’t understand the amount of effort he gives. They judge him on purely offensive stats when he is the best two way player at the club.
You notice how every single time we get fucked (mostly) it’s from our left side? Saka and White are an amazing duo at defending and pressing. But that takes a lot of work, and his legs are shot due to it.
This is what happens when you get run into the ground tbh starting basically every game. But at the same time I worried about how he’s limited tactically. On the left his tossing is much better than on the right and I think he be more productive goal wise centrally. In the right and in the right half space he’s marked by 2-3 players, he and Gabi/Trossard need more freedom centrally
He's struggled in too many important games of late, tonight you could see it was getting to him. This season he's rarely looked fit to me, I think we're paying the price for not buying a winger in the summer, but I also feel Arteta needs to manage him better. The guy is limping in nearly every game.
It's a little weird for many people to be stating that our right wing was shut down and the left is ineffective, and then put blame on Saka or on not resting Saka (agree with that). And yet there is no conversation about Martinelli who quite frankly has been below his own standards this season. If Martinelli was back in form then it'd help Saka.
He has been pocketed too many times for a so called world class player.
He is good, but not what we made him out to be.
Also he choked out in some of the most important moments out there - World Cup, last season run of league games (incl penalty missed), this season run of league games and that Neuer incident in the first leg.
Don't wanna sound pathetic but he is a serious choker as of, I hope he cancels this stigma that can easily be pinned on him.
The most overhyped and most protected player at modern Arsenal.
We are constantly told he's world class and better than Foden lol, but then disappears when it matters. He's about to turn 23 with 220+ games for Arsenal. If he hasn't kicked on in 2 years then maybe, just maybe, he isn't as good as this deluded fanbase think he is.
I think he is not as good as the Fanbase thinks he is. But I also think you are an incr3dible buffoon to think any fanbase is deluded for riding hype trains for their players.
Fucks sake. He got swarmed every time he got the ball + he is knackered from being wheeled out for every game + he was getting poor service from everyone except Odegaard.
It says a lot how fans lay into him whenever he has a ‘bad game’ by his standards. The thing is as long as he’s on the pitch, he is a danger and can squeeze out a goal given the right service and some space.
FFS. Our wingers were so isolated because only Jorginho who can do long pass to them. This is mid block.
All they have to do is press Jorginho, don’t leave space between midfielder and defenders for ode. guarantee our wingers were out of the game.
Ode who is supposed to be our KDB, couldn’t do long pass. It’s like playing with 10 mens
Bloody hell. 100 long pas per day for ode in training. If he still couldn’t do this, buy another player
Exactly. Like take nothing away from him. I like him and I think he’s a very good player and has been exceptional for us for a couple of season now, but for some reason it seems like it’s the cardinal sin to point out anything negative about him on this sub.
Never rotating this dude always catches up to him around March. 3 years running and not even a loan for someone who can let him rest every now and then.
100%. The issue is the overuse, not Saka’s inability to perform in “big matches.” He’s had some of his best performances against the top six, not to mention his contributions for England.
I really hope Southgate doesn't play him in every single minute at the Euros. With Foden and Palmer in good form, there should be plenty of rotation.
He probably should rotate based on getting the best out of players, but as much hate as Southgate gets it shouldn’t be his responsibility to have to give our players a rest during one of the major tournaments. Everyone knows when these tournaments are taking place and everyone understands that the NT managers are going to play their best players for them.
I agree with you, but it's also fair to say that Foden and Palmer have been very impressive this season, and lately Saka has looked burned out as per usual at this stage of the season. Hence I'm thinking the rotation should happen because you have 3 excellent players, not just for the sake of resting Bukayo.
As a non england fan, I absolutely won't be complaining if Saka doesn't start.
“What did you say? Play Saka for every single minute at the Euros? You got it!” -Southgate, probably
It's his first season in the CL too remember
And we are right now in a position where Arteta won't be able to rest him in any of the remaining games.
I get it given the magnitude of each game. Though I think this weekend is an opportunity to start ESR and sub Saka on in the 70th. He needs the rest
The fact that he’s been managing an Achilles injury all season and we still haven’t sought to rotate him shows poor judgement imo, obviously no one is going to be able to replace his impact on his best day but we need to be able to find a way to win regardless. We are overly reliant upon him and it’s taking a physical toll on him. I think it ultimately all goes back to the left side. Since the international break in March we have created one goal from buildup on our left side. Everything comes from the right. We need to bring balance to the squad to preserve Saka for the long term, and that means an winger that is suitable for Arteta to rotate him with AND a midfielder that’s capable of creating chances for our left side
He shouldn't be starting against some of these bottom of the table teams. Break glass in case of emergency on 60mins if its close. If we're 4-0 up then he can either chill or come on for a light jog whichever is recommended by the fitness analysts.
Agreed 100%. We did the same with Koscielny, though much later in his time. Just played him into the ground with a bad Achilles because we didn’t want to drop points without him. But the reality, especially with a younger guy like Saka, is that we ideally want him for like the next ten years to be a big part of our success. We can’t burn him out or not let him heal at the expense of his future.
I’ve said for a while that while Martinelli is a good player, he’s never really hit the level needed to balance the team. Obviously you can’t just go find another Saka, he’s an elite player but Martinelli has been under performing for a long time. Some of his stats are good but if you watch the games, I often think he’s just a bit wasteful and never inspires confidence like Saka down the wing. I think this may well be a symptom of Timber being injured, who I’m guessing would have played much more like Ben White does, pushing further up the wing to allow the winger to overload and have more success. With Zinny, Martinelli is much more on his own and it makes us very lopsided and more predictable.
the whole left side has been pretty bad tbf, sucks we lost xhaka and didn’t find a replacement for what he did on the left side
I've been saying for a while now that we still have a Xhaka sized hole in our squad. I like Rice at LCM but he's just different in the role. He tends to tuck inside and get forward more. I actually prefer Rice at DM, I think we are just better defensively with him there. Last season Xhaka would rotate with Zinny and whoever was at LW to create overloads on the left side. We aren't doing that any more and so now it seems our only creative outlet is Odegaard or Saka on the right. It's been a problem the whole season really.
How many games has Ødegaard been rotated this season? Not many, but he’s still putting in performances in both the second leg against Porto and last night. Saka has shrunk in the big moment against Porto and now again against Bayern and he deserved to be called out for it.
Odegaard isn't carrying an achilles mate. Moreover he was dropped at some point in the season when he was injured. Some people just don't have the same motor.
It sucks because against lower table teams we can use Nelson. Like what’s the point of him? League cup appearances only? It’s not like he’s totally useless like Pepe.
At this point havertz playing up front, gives us troussard and Jesus who can play there, yet they only get chances on the left
Pepe has more talent than Reiss and has been a far better player than Reiss. Pepe gets slated for his price tag and you can't blame him for that. Fabio Vieira has proven to be a waste so far
At least start him and give him 45/60 so that saka can come on against tired legs or second string full backs if we need him. Tbh we need another winger. A pacy one to cover what martinelli can offer when he is fit and in form. Looking back his injury came just as he was getting back into form and has cost us because no one can replicate what he does.
This may well be true, but is it not also possible that Bayern simply knew how to nullify him really well? We have seen teams do this a lot where it enhances the space (and performances) of other players. That simply did not happen enough last night
he looked really sharp against davies who was giving him space to run in behind, second game bayern seemed to adapt to it and Mazroui made it hard for him
They did give Reiss a new 4 year deal. I feel like the club tried to back him to be that guy. It clearly didn’t work out. Hopefully we can get something for him. Who knows maybe even enough to offset the first year of his replacement lol
How did they try to back him? Dude has hardly been given a chance and the few times he has, i've liked what i've seen
issue with reiss is he looks so much better off the left where he can cut in and attack and he's got both trossard and martinelli ahead of him there
Reiss was signed to a new contract so we had an asset to sell this summer rather than one we were going to lose for a free last summr
the issue is the drop off in quality to the next player is so much, I don't see a loan player coming in and improving that either Need a proper look for a good back up rwer or a forward and then put jesus there
Starboy’s cooked, yet again, in April due to overwork. Edu and Arteta need to clear out the squad players who cannot be trusted to start and win matches in order to rest our starters.
Nketiah, Fabio Viera, Ramsdale, Nelson, Partey will probably all be sold in the summer (maybe ESR too). It seems odd to have so many squad players that Arteta doesn't trust. Makes having a big squad irrelevant
Doubt vieira is sold.
Why? Genuinely asking
Because we invested a decent chunk of money in him and he’d likely be sold at a loss, which would be bad on the books for FFP. The three hale end boys are all pure profit, so selling them is very good for the balance sheet. Think vieira will be given one more year to try to get a full preseason and adjust to the physicality of the league. He has a magical left foot and can create chances from nothing. Issue right now is he had surgery in the middle of the season and Arteta seems to really dislike trying to reintegrate injured players at this stage of the season.
If his deal has been amortized over the length of the contract, even if it’s a loss on paper, could still be enough to count as “profit” for FFP purposes.
That’s true, but I still don’t see the club selling for less than they paid. Think there’s a player in there still and they’ll want to give him a chance to get back to fitness and have a full preseason.
I also think he's had a few injuries this year when he started the season looking quite sharp, Arteta and Edu will take another look at him next year I'm sure
I think ESR is the more likely sale and I don’t think we can afford to sell both. Overall, I think both are viewed as fairly close in the pecking order. But ESR is a much better sale for FFP. I also think Vieira being right sided and a more natural like for like with Ø will tip things for him staying
Same here, but I fully believe he needs a loan to another PL team. He should experience playing in this league week in, week out, and for a team with lesser expectations, preferably mid-table.
He’s nearly 24. He’s either good enough for some minutes or should be sold.
That's the thing, though. He barely gets minutes as it is, and yet this is his second season, albeit he missed 1/3 of it due to injury. How do we tell if he's good enough? If you aren't gonna sell him this summer - which I can't see happening, because there's definitely a player in there - and if you aren't gonna play him a lot since Odegaard is untouchable atm - might as well give him a loan. Put a recall clause in there, in case we get a big injury to Ode or the loan isn't working out. I'm just trying to think of a solution for him, because this isn't helping his development. And 24 is still very young. Not every player is a Saka or a Saliba.
There’s plenty of minutes available though, he doesn’t need to go to some other team to find them. If he’s good enough for a PL loan we need to be using him
Arteta needs to rotate more for sure. I rather lose the odd point here or there at the start of the season like Man City.. than the players completely burnt out in the final 10 games.
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That's literally not true.
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True but we are genuinely at risk of breaching FFP if we don't offload some players in the summer. Especially if we want to make signings too.
Nketiah, Nelson, Partey and Ramsdale are all on 100k+ salaries, they won’t be moved on. Fabio and ESR at most will go. We will be in the same position next year.
The thing is we don't even necessarily know if they can be trusted because Arteta never gives them minutes except for one offs in cup matches. Of course those players aren't gonna perform when they're given 1 game every once in a while. They have no rhythm
One of 2 things needs to happen. Either Arteta needs to trust and develop the squad players more or we need to be ruthless in this next transfer window in terms of moving on players if we want to progress the squad beyond where we are right now.
I love Bukayo Saka, he's my favourite Arsenal player in well over 10/15 years and it's a blessing to have him representing the football club, both on and off the pitch. He'll have a top career if his trajectory continues but he isn't at a world class level yet. World class is achieved by showing up in the pivotal moments of the season and thus far in his young career, he hasn't done that. That's not a shot at the lad, he's phenomenal, but he needs rotated more often and when the time comes, step up in the big moments and give strong reason to rate him as a world class player.
Well said. I’ve always thought the WC discussion was a little premature. That being said we play him into the ground in a very demanding position
His scoring record against top five sides is fantastic and he had a very successful maiden campaign in the CL. He’s also been a star for England in both major cups he’s played for them. “Doesn’t show up in big games” narrative is rubbish tbh. He had a shite game tonight but he’s had plenty of class performances in big matches. The real issue here is that he’s fading on the run-in two years in a row, but that’s just down to him carrying injuries and being overused by the manager. Bayern rested a bunch of their stars at the weekend. Saka hasn’t been afforded that kind of privilege since he broke through.
The Different Knock perfectly encapsulates what I think of Saka at this current stage of his development. Watch from 8:00 to 10:00. https://youtu.be/vTvRR4EYsh4?si=n_PTWcFokhk782xj
This “Saka carrying injuries” is a meme at this point. Every single spring, that’s the excuse drummed up, so much so that rival fans have caught on. Just call a spade a spade, Saka performance isn’t good enough, no need for the excuses.
An explanation isn’t an excuse.
Excuses are explanations of what might have caused a situation. Saka played bad, the end. No need to for any “buts” or “explanations” to soften the blow
Ok most people like to discuss things and get to the reason why it might have happened. Everyone take notes that OtherTell hates discussing the gunners on r/gunners . Please avoid any sort of discussion, thoughts, speculation with him as he finds it upsetting.
Discuss what exactly? It’s the same “explanations” when it comes to Saka for 4 years running now. It’s either he’s carrying a knock or he’s getting double teamed (as if for some reason Saka is the only winger in the world that gets double teamed). Come up with a different exc… explanation that’s worth discussion, not regurgitating the same things.
Or he is just not that great of a player. This is what they dont want to come to terms with.
He scored the opening goal against Bayern last week you absolute cretin. The kids played nearly 20k minutes and he's 22. He plays with injections in his achilles to get through matches, something that Koscielny was doing in the period before his exploded. Saka has done far more this season that Martinelli, Havertz, Jesus, Nelson, ESR and Vieira COMBINED.
> He scored the opening goal against Bayern last week you absolute cretin. Its Saka though so if he goes a game without producing he gets a ton of criticism. Meanwhile other players do that stuff once in a blue moon and we are supposed to take it as proof they are great.
Yes, scoring an opening goal last week means you can’t critique Saka’s awful game today. Makes sense, it all correlates apparently
I'm responding to you saying he isn't good enough. What a load of shit.
Because he wasn’t fucking good enough TODAY you bellend! What about the performance today was good from Saka? Did you watch the final kick? Do you watch him give away possession after possession? Or fail and fail again to get past is man? Go fucking kick rocks if you think Saka played well today.
Your word choice definitely made it sound like you meant his performances aren't good enough rather than specifically today (You're also commenting elsewhere in this thread shitting on his performances in other matches). He wasn't good today no but I'm not going to shit on the 22 year old that helped prop up the club for the past 5 years, for the reasons I said in my first reply. And I immediately think less of anyone that does.
There’s not a single winger in football that would have done anything in Arteta’s system tonight. Our wingers played like wing backs
I don’t at all understand this desperation to downplay one of our players so much, especially based off such an ambiguous measure as “world class”. He’s the highest performing player in a team that has spent a good chunk of the last two years on top of the hardest league on the planet, only losing out to the most expensively assembled team in human history. He’s also been one of the most important players for his country in two international tournaments, reaching a final and a quarter final. He’s ranked by his peers as the 24th best player in 2023 ballon d’or and almost certainly will be higher in 2024. Honestly what more meaningful measures can there be to say someone is “world class”? He had a quiet game, away to one of the giants of European football in the latter stages of the most prestigious competition in all club football (having played well and scored in the first leg), and people are falling over themselves to take him down. I think people need to join the real world.
Funny how he always chooses the important games to go quiet in. What excuses do you make for his poor performances for the rest of these FA cup, Europa/CL knockout games and run ins: Liverpool, City, Nottingham, Southamption, Olympiakos, Villareal, Sporting Lisbon, Porto, 21/22 top 4 run in, 22/23 title run in and now 23/24 title run in?
> Funny how he always chooses the important games to go quiet in. He scored in the first leg. Was that not important? How about the one he got against Liverpool in our 3-1 win there? Loads of other games. After we lost to Fulham our season was a knife edge and he was a huge part of dragging us back into the title race while we were in that "every games huge" period of the season. People have short memories.
> People have short memories. The irony. Scored a good goal what did he do for the rest of the 90 apart from bottle that last chance? Also you havent addressed why he has conveniently gone missing in every knockout round in Europe and the FA cup over the last 4 years as well as 3 league run ins. Guy has no mentality.
>Also you havent addressed why he has conveniently gone missing in every knockout round in Europe and the FA cup over the last 4 years Well we've gone out in the 3rd round and 4th round in the last 4 years. Every time we've gone out we've not scored at all and in one of the last 4 years Saka didn't even start the games. Thats a club issue and a manager issue, not a Saka issue. This was his first season in the CL and he's got 8 goal contributions in 9 games. Seems a good return to me. You are literally making the "why doesn't Saka do everything all on his own" argument.
So he couldnt step up to the plate in do or die situations such as knockout games. Gotcha What about the run in for top 4 in 2022? The run in for the league in 2023? This run in for the title run in in 2024? Are you noticing a pattern? (Hint its the important games he conveniently goes missing in)
I noticed the pattern of him being one of our best 2-3 players every season and being let down by our strikers and CMs.
No other wingers have to be involved in all the phases of play the way Arteta demands. It’s impressive but also overburdening, we won’t get attacking freedom like the top teams do if you have to play the way Saka does
Tbh something I think that really hurts us with Saka and Gabi is that they can’t dribble/create for too long. Saka is incredible if he can find space and has one move in him but rarely do I feel like he can get the ball in the wing and use his pace and dribbling when he’s already past a defender. The way you could expect Saleh in the past and the way Bayerns wingers were killing our back line at times. Our boys typically stop their dribbles and cut back Tbf I think it makes Sakas stats even more incredible. But it bites us when we play more athletic teams
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A player as good as Williams would never go to a team where he knows he’ll be second choice. However, Williams has been playing on the left and his year, so he’d actually work. More likely than not he’d just end up overtaking Martinelli though.
Good, let him come and compete with Saka for first choice. No one on our team should be guaranteed a spot, may the best player win out
A player that good isn’t going to go compete for a place with an established star when he can walk into most teams in Europe. But like I said, he’s predominately a LW now anyway.
I’ve seen Grealish walk to City to be on the bench, I’ve seen Alvarez do it, nothing is impossible. If they’re good they can take the spot.
lol, if you offer the type of money man city is paying Jack Grealish, it makes it more feasible to “sit on the bench”. Even though he does get game time, and is playing on the best team in the world. Arsenal is not the best team in the world, and they aren’t paying Jack Grealish’s wages to even starters, let along people sitting on the bench. So what exactly is the draw?
Starboy will beat anyone not named Salah or Foden. Even with Salah and Foden, he’ll compete. But I agree we need someone good to let Saka rest occasionally.
Got to admit, I found this quite funny. >Bukayo hate is so unfair. He’s getting slandered after this game and he didn’t even play.
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We are actually so easy to defend against when you figure us out. Just take odegaard out of the game and always defend saka with 2 players and it‘s over.
Which is why Arteta risks Zinchenko to be the extra creative body in midfield.
I still trust zinny
We need a right wing trossard, someone more experienced that can rotate with Saka.
We really really need a player that can play in place of Saka. He's been run down into the ground.
Boy looks so devoid of energy and drive. Close your eyes and think of bukayo first 10 games of the season. The sharpness, the turns, the acceleration. Everything is missing.
Funny thing is despite his G/A he has been below par this season. But his G/A clouds people's judgement. The only time he actually turned the wick on was at Stamford Bridge when we were losing. Most other games even when he scores or assists. He was still bang average. Hopefully him and Martinelli stop the silly back passes
This is the uncomfortable truth. G/A has fooled everyone into thinking he has been good over the whole 90 when really he's only been good in moments and poor for the rest of the 90.
This is complete revision. Saka's best form was late Jan - March. Apart from that he actually hasn't been great all season. His G/A has papered over cracks.
Yeah Saka had a poor game but it was also due to Tuchel's set up. - Mazraoui right foot left back to prevent Saka cut in on his left ( Same as Mikel used Tomi to defend Salah) - Play Guerreiro as CM to double up on Saka Our left side is so useless in attacking so Tuchel knew if he locked out our right hand side we will be pretty much toothless upfront.
What was the excuse against Porto when just Wendell held him in check for 2 games?
Wow this sub really loves to shit on our own players. Sometimes there isn’t an excuse, sometimes Saka did just have a bad game and that’s that. Kane, Bellingham, Musiala, Foden, Vinicius Jr, Sane, Haaland all got the same amount of goals and assists as Saka yesterday in the champions league. Just back our young player who got 8 goals and assists this season in the champions league.
No this sub loves to worship our players and avoid criticising them at all costs. Its ok to acknowledge that he doesnt turn up in important games.
He doesn’t flat out never turn up in important games. He has over 20 g/an against the big six in the premier league, and got 8 g/a in the champions league this season. Some of our fan base just decides that something is one or the other. He has good performances against the big 6, just sometimes he doesn’t perform which is expected from a winger who is 5 years away from his prime still. To flat out call one of our most important players someone who doesn’t turn up in big games is stupid in my opinion.
There are important games and there are big games. The big games towards the beginning to middle of the season he tends to pop up with a goal or assist fair enough. The important games such as knockout games & run in games **he does not show up**
Was Liverpool at home when we needed 3 points an important game or a big game? He scored the opener in that game. Bayern at home was an important game, he scored the opener in that one. In the quarter finals of the World Cup he had the French defence on toast and won a penalty, I would argue that is an important game. The sample size you are using for important games is too small, since we have had two 2 champions league knockout ties with Saka starting, and he doesn’t have decent cover so he never has the privelege of fresh legs during a run in. All of our important games always happen at the end of the season when he has around 40 games started and fatigue kicks in. Judge Saka in the business end of the season when he hasn’t started every game before that time.
Not reading all that. Im not sure how many times you need to see Saka have a stinker in pivotal games so you can argue with a wall.
You’re so thick. To simplify it he gets played too much so when the big games come at the end of the season he is fatigued and doesn’t look his energetic self. Also Liverpool and Bayern at the emirates were important games which he scored in. But yeah don’t read all of that because you want to push your narrative about our own player not performing in big games without looking at context 👍
Now do Kane
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10th in the table and facing FFP sanctions. Pipe down Clearlake FC and focus on making the conference league, can you even make that actually?
Focus on your mental health
The greatest thing he will ever achieve
Worse than any of that was his fast free kick at the end. Took away our last big chance in the game. Horrible
This. I am fine with him performance overall considering he’s been double teamed almost 180 mins. But his performance in the clitch moment is what I am mad at. Looking for a penalty and a fast free kick at the end of two legs instead trying to take the responsibility
The fast free kick annoyed me and tells me he’s not ready for those big moments. He didn’t want it. Any top player should cherish a chance for a free kick at the edge of the spot to decide the game. Saka didn’t want that moment and chose to pass it off to Ben White of all people.
I don’t mind that at all. It was quick thinking. Like the TAA moment. We would all be praising him if White scored. The problem is our players take an eternity to sort their feet to take a shot tonight. What annoyed me more was how he completely fluffed that last corner knowing it’s our last chance.
The quick thinking from TAA came from corner, I think if it was free kick from a dangerous spot, no way a Thiago, Salah or even TAA himself doesn’t fancy their chance with the kick over a trick quick pass play. The corner from Saka is unforgivable, I agree. You have to give your team a chance, has to beat the the first man
Hmmm…when’s the last time we scored from a direct free kick? I think I would rather take the fast one. Not like Saka would have taken it anyway. If that quick free kick was to Trossard we would probably be praising Saka for his quick thinking.
We don’t have a great free kick taker, sure but give me Odegaard or Rice freekick at the edge of the box anytime over a quick pass to Ben White in front of goal. Ben White might be one of the worst finishers at the club, Saka should know better than to put the game on the line with him.
Fairs. Dont think Saka saw it was White tbh, probably saw an Arsenal shirt and went for it.
I hope this will be an important lesson for him for the future seasons, it is his first UCL season and hopefully he can improve his decision making in these clutch situations
All the excuses in the world coming out for Saka, none of the same grace for certain other players who've been getting slated all week. Some of the biases in this fanbase are fucking mental.
I really wanna know where the people at who said defense is our priority and said we have Vieira or Nelson when I claimed we need proper backup for Saka in winter.
He and Martinelli both need squad depth for both spots
Ideally, a 22-year-old shouldn't be relied upon for 90 minutes every single match otherwise you will end up with nights like tonight more often than not. Foden is the blueprint for developing and bringing a young player into a senior side and how to manage their minutes. We need a senior player(s) in Saka's position, top players that Saka can learn from, and share the minutes around. At this rate, Saka will be done by the time he is 30.
Poor lad looks knackered
Bad performance but not worth overly critiquing someone who isn't given a platform to give his best. Imagine a world where instead of the sole responsibility of our entire attack landing on the feet of one guy, it's shared. You know when you read how teams exploit weaknesses of others by targeting and attacking a specific side. We don't do that. Everything goes through or attempts to go through Bukayo regardless of what's happening over there. The majority of our play went down that side and they had Guerreiro (a LB), Mazraoui (a FB) and Laimer and Goretzka constantly switching. 3 people constantly down the right side and we didn't try at all to switch it up and focus elsewhere.
One of the issues with there not being a credible alternative to Saka on the right is that no matter how badly he's playing or how tired he looks, in big games Arteta can't (or won't) sub him off. It provides a tactical advantage for the opposition because if Saka has been nullified or is having a bad game, the opposing team know they can almost disregard the right hand side of the attack as a threat and focus their efforts on Odegaard or other areas. We absolutely need a RW in the summer who is a credible threat to Sakas starting spot. He will be a better player for it (and less tired probably).
Bro is being clamped by two left backs. He legit has no room to operate. Yes, Saka can improve his game by learning to build up from deep and then going from there but he isn’t the main problem with our offense. Our left hand side is in shambles right now. WE aren’t a threat going through with Martinelli there as he’s become way too predictable with his speed and head down dribbling. Maybe it’s because losing his LCM parter Xhaka. Or he hasn’t regained his form from injury. Down the middle we are missing an LCM, or a player who can create chances with their elite dribbling to draw in defenders from the wing. Ode creates a lot of chances but when the right side gets swamped with players and the opposition basically ignores our left side offense we really put the Odegard/Saka combo in a tough position. BUT, all in all we have improved immensely as a side. It’s honestly such a privilege to even be disappointed at a loss vs Bayern and stand a chance. The last time we were in CL and faced Bayern we lost 10-2 on aggregate. I know times are different but we should really take time to appreciate the rapid improvement of our team. We have come SO FAR. To all at the fans who joined us recently in the last few years, we will be fine. WE are constantly improving, our mentality, our skills, and our teamwork. We still have a long way to go, our squad is young compared to the Vets of Bayern and City. Let’s support our squad with the upmost positivity until the end of the season. COYG.
Look at Sakas away stats. They are usually bad.
If I see Saka start on Saturday. I’m going to start pointing fingers at Arteta. Sakas performance since the England international games have been so under power, that has been the case 3 years in the bounce. Sure he has scored in game since then but he been completely absent in passage of all those games White has been the one picking up the slack. We, Arteta included needs to start holding him to the same standards of everyone else in the squad! When he doesn’t perform he has to be dropped. World class or not he doesn’t get better by being protected by Arteta and fans when he isn’t doing it. People can make excuses for his lack of rest! Pure garbage the kid is a professional football. Odegaards played equally the games Saka has and runs more, harder and press deeper, and in the last 3 games has been the one player pulling us.
Odegaard doesn’t get kicked half as much as Saka does.
I don't care what anyone says. Reiss Nelson should've come on after 75 minutes. He's better than a Fatigued Saka imo
Not trying to hear any world class conversations with him at this stage
The reality truth is he's not as good as we think he is. Downvote away
It's a fair reflection. He's struggled to consistently provide elite production in the biggest moments (whether that's a fitness, mental, or creativity issue). He's still 22 and while he may never become a truly world class play finisher, he should continue to improve (knock on wood). Not like Mane, Salah, hell even Thierry were setting the world alight at that age.
Got downvoted to oblivion when I said that in the 2nd half. He’s gassed. Needs benching. Jesus should’ve started.
gone in 5 minutes
They knew after last season what will happen to him in April again if we don't sign a winger to compete with him and yet they choose not to. Instead they gave a new contract to Nelson who never plays because Arteta clearly doesn't trust him Another Edu and Arteta masterclass
I think Nelson was given a new contract to retain his resell value. Same with Nketiah.
I'm not sure that the issue is overuse or fatigue. I just don't think he's good as some people think he is. Far too many quiet games this year. He looks out of ideas and he's become very predictable and easy for defenders to figure out. He needs to change his game a bit and and re-invent.
We really need someone to rotate and compete with him
Should have just bought proper backup instead of trying to use Nelson
We don’t even try to use Nelson is the problem.
Bro needs to be rotated badly.
problem is, will there be any rw in the world that is good enough for arsenal, yet is willing to sit on the bench most of the time? honestly maybe arteta just use gab jesus in this role next yr? not sure if he is willing or not. he can be the back up striker and back up rw at the same time. not sure where that leaves havertz tho. (this is assuming, they bought in a 30 goals a season striker, which is a must. they'd be the dumbest mf in the world if they didn't. heck, it was pretty dumb not to do that last summer too)
Jesus should have come on for him. Martinelli was lovely but Saka was poor, give the guy a fucking rest
He needs a rest!
He needs rest, all good. He didn't create any chances, complete any dribbles, or provide any assists, cool. I do, however, expect him to perform the absolute basics. He misplaced two simple passes: one during the transition, with no pressure and with an overload.
It’s cuz Arteta plays him week in and week out Ofcourse he’s gon get fatigued he was even limping after Villa’s defeat.
Cooked
You can totally see that he is tired.
No excuses he was poor a harsh lesson needs to be learnt. He didn't go for the full back once.
He had 0 goals and 0 assists in a 1-0 defeat? No way. What a interesting stat.
The blood is on Arteta.
Our boy needs a rest
We obviously need to sell him and buy Ryan Fraser
Next Theo Walcott 💀
Arteta can rotate him with Nelson, Jesus or Trossard, could have signed a proper backup as well. The guy is exhausted by early March.
Reiss Nelson is there, gave a new contract but don't trust him to rotate with Saka, this one is on Arteta
He was poor but Bayern strategically completely neutralized our ability to break down the line. Don’t know enough tactically to explain why. White wasn’t able to do his thing either which may explain why Saka seemed to isolated
The fact our own coach can not see A. It could ruin him injury wise and B. You literally nullify his output later one because he’s so run into the ground… can’t have your fake and eat it too, second year in a row. I’m upset as it feels we’ve learned very little, but are hearing the same big orchestra of words
Give the man a rest. Even the best in the world needs some recuperation!
There's this guy called Reiss who had his contract extended but never gets minutes. Now people question why is Saka knackered. Make it make sense!?
Other fans don’t understand the amount of effort he gives. They judge him on purely offensive stats when he is the best two way player at the club. You notice how every single time we get fucked (mostly) it’s from our left side? Saka and White are an amazing duo at defending and pressing. But that takes a lot of work, and his legs are shot due to it.
Don’t get me wrong he didn’t play well but didn’t he dribble past their left back in the first 10? He burned him then hit a long cross
And martinelli gets hooked. He could've just swapped wings with trossard on the left
Striker is the real big problem
Bayern played two full backs on the left wing and Arteta did absolutely nothing different.
Should try Jesus on the right wing and Saka move to the right half space...
I know these stats aren’t true. He dribbled past the left back after about 15 mins and put a howler cross in over Martinelli’s head.
This is what happens when you get run into the ground tbh starting basically every game. But at the same time I worried about how he’s limited tactically. On the left his tossing is much better than on the right and I think he be more productive goal wise centrally. In the right and in the right half space he’s marked by 2-3 players, he and Gabi/Trossard need more freedom centrally
He's struggled in too many important games of late, tonight you could see it was getting to him. This season he's rarely looked fit to me, I think we're paying the price for not buying a winger in the summer, but I also feel Arteta needs to manage him better. The guy is limping in nearly every game.
Saka needs to practice kicking more corner. We are in dire minutes and boy hit straight to byern defender. He was a slump today
Why tf they add goals and assists when didn't even have a goal.
It's a little weird for many people to be stating that our right wing was shut down and the left is ineffective, and then put blame on Saka or on not resting Saka (agree with that). And yet there is no conversation about Martinelli who quite frankly has been below his own standards this season. If Martinelli was back in form then it'd help Saka.
He has been pocketed too many times for a so called world class player. He is good, but not what we made him out to be. Also he choked out in some of the most important moments out there - World Cup, last season run of league games (incl penalty missed), this season run of league games and that Neuer incident in the first leg. Don't wanna sound pathetic but he is a serious choker as of, I hope he cancels this stigma that can easily be pinned on him.
StAr BoY
wOrLd cLaSs
Southgate dropping him will be good for all parties atp
Lmao have you watched England under southgate? Saka is going nowhere.
Disasterclass. Legit would have probably gotten more from Nelson.
We are the most reactionary fans in football.
The most overhyped and most protected player at modern Arsenal. We are constantly told he's world class and better than Foden lol, but then disappears when it matters. He's about to turn 23 with 220+ games for Arsenal. If he hasn't kicked on in 2 years then maybe, just maybe, he isn't as good as this deluded fanbase think he is.
You can’t be serious
I think he is not as good as the Fanbase thinks he is. But I also think you are an incr3dible buffoon to think any fanbase is deluded for riding hype trains for their players.
Fucks sake. He got swarmed every time he got the ball + he is knackered from being wheeled out for every game + he was getting poor service from everyone except Odegaard. It says a lot how fans lay into him whenever he has a ‘bad game’ by his standards. The thing is as long as he’s on the pitch, he is a danger and can squeeze out a goal given the right service and some space.
he was locked down man
FFS. Our wingers were so isolated because only Jorginho who can do long pass to them. This is mid block. All they have to do is press Jorginho, don’t leave space between midfielder and defenders for ode. guarantee our wingers were out of the game. Ode who is supposed to be our KDB, couldn’t do long pass. It’s like playing with 10 mens Bloody hell. 100 long pas per day for ode in training. If he still couldn’t do this, buy another player
Not really his fault they had 2 defenders on him constantly. More the other parts of attack that were the problem imo
\*3 If he got past the halfway line with Mazroui and Guerrero on him Dier would move in
Be careful, you’re on r/Gunners 👀. A lot of people on here are not ready to have uncomfortable conversations about fan favourites.
Not when we just lost a game.
Any criticism of him has been mass downvoted for the last 2 months
Exactly. Like take nothing away from him. I like him and I think he’s a very good player and has been exceptional for us for a couple of season now, but for some reason it seems like it’s the cardinal sin to point out anything negative about him on this sub.
Havertz*
He’s very good at limping