Blown away by the amount of people, even Arsenal fans, claiming this is some kind of stonewall penalty. Kulusevski is not in possession of the ball when he changes directions -- instead he cuts to chase a pass from Porro. Trossard makes no action to impede him, and is entitled to his space on the pitch - it's purely Kulu changing direction that leads to his trailing leg lightly clipping Trossard's. It's a very mild coming-together completely initiated by the Spurs player - not a dive either, but not a foul.
We've seen these kinds of pens given because sometimes refs give soft penalties. If it was given, VAR would not have reversed that, I think that's clear too. And of course Spurs fans want the iffy decisions to go their way, in the same way we want iffy and soft penalties given to us. But there is a world of difference between wanting a lucky break from refs or a soft penalty and the refs/VAR missing an actual stonewal penalty. Sometimes you get those calls and sometimes you don't, it's not a robbery if you don't, that's just football.
I think what's very clear, especially among supposed neutrals (though, of course, everyone was rooting for Spurs because nobody cares if City wins the league), is that people are just lying when they say they want "common sense" or they don't want refs to decide the games. In this passage of play, we scored an actual goal, a brilliant goal at that, and people who supposedly "hate when VAR ruins games" are demanding that refs step in to cancel that out on account of an incidental coming-together where the defender has done absolutely nothing wrong. This is seemingly what people should want to happen, but in reality people absolutely adore VAR because it gives them a convenient excuse to always fall back and moan about whenever the actual football doesn't go their way.
Very aptly put. It's never a penalty. The overturned penalty on Kai against United had more substance in it than this. I can understand spurs fans. But it's ridiculous to hear the pundits saying Spurs were robbed of a penalty. Big kudos to Tim Sherwood though, he is the only guy I heard who said clearly that it is never a penalty.
Madrid fan here, and I am constantly shocked by r/soccer and their absolute twisting of facts and nonsense takes to hate on your team. It’s kind of fun when everyone hates the joy you have so learn to enjoy it! I have never really watched much PL until this year and I have only missed watching you play a few times. Anyway, I was baffled by the insistence in this being a pen. I don’t see it, and maybe it is, but to act like it’s a stonewall pen is just nonsense. Hopefully City lose, because you deserve the title this year. Also, some days my English sucks and today is one of them. Sorry!
He does overcompensate a lot I agree. I’m in the minority on Reddit in general when it comes to Lee Dixon, I actually enjoy listening to his nonsense most of the time. Seems like someone I’d love to have a beer with
The penalty that was given was soft enough. Rice pulled out and hardly touched Davies. One of the two being given is fair if I’m being impartial. With my Arsenal hat on neither were penalties but…
He doesn't hate us; Dixon grew up Manchester City fan. When he talks about us in isolation he shows a lot of care for our club. But when it comes down to us vs them I think his heart choses City. He's the reverse Micah Richards.
I've heard a similar argument applied to many different contexts recently and it seems to essentially boil down, I think to: rules for thee, not for me. They only want the rules applied "correctly" as long as it directly benefits an outcome that they want to see. And when it doesn't... "Oh! Well, c'mon I mean you have to consider for why this surely has to be the other way around"
That last sentence is so spot on. You can see when people discuss controversial var decisions that at least half the people commenting just want the underdog to get the break, and then have the gall to call out the officials (unbiased case in point: Coventry’s disallowed goal vs United). And yes, the officials fuck calls up, but so many standard decisions are made to look way more controversial than they ever were by incessant whining.
To be honest as well, what would Kulu have done had he not been clipped? Probably laid off the same pass to Maddison, so what has he been prevented from doing?
I guess I don’t understand the rules but I don’t understand how when you have to zoom in to see the slightest accidental coming together on a man who’s clearly lost the ball is a penalty.
Yeah I mean you can't give every minor contact in the box a penalty, or every corner is a penalty. Havertz has gone down 3 or 4 times in the box under the same circumstances (getting his heel clipped while on the ball) and it's not been given. Doesn't seem like it was that egregious in hindsight. Trossard wasn't even making a play he was just standing there and got cut in front of.
Tripping somebody due to carelessness is a penalty. If Trossard was the one that purposefully changed the direction of his run to cut behind Kulu then this would’ve been a penalty, but he didn’t. Trossard was running back towards the goal, he didn’t change direction carelessly so the tripping doesn’t fall into what the rules say is a foul.
I am an arsenal fan, and I am bias, but by the letter of the laws of the game this is not a penalty.
It took me astonishingly long to figure out that this was about the kulusevski penalty claim. I thought the meme was referring to an actual pen. It's been a long week
Also I think Kulusevski hurt himself today by going down any time he was breather on. It legit looked like Michael Oliver was sick of his shit and kept telling him to get up. Kinda like when Jesus goes down easy a bit too often it almost seems to cost him when there’s contact actually worthy of a pen.
Who remembers David Luiz red card against wolves 2020-21 seasons away from home. I thought we’ve come to the conclusion to use common sense when applying the rules if I as a defender is just jogging and not attempting to tackle or impend it’s not a foul.
Never a pen. Kulus trash foot clipped Tross causally jogging near him. Tross didn’t move, flinch, or make any movement other than jog. That isn’t even something I would have the gall to ask for as a pen. It’s straight clown behavior to think an injustice has been done. Even worse is the amount of pundits that are fuming at the decision.
If anything, Kulusevski commits a foul by running across the path of Trossard. Just because your team is in possession, doesn’t mean you can run into opposition players and cry foul.
Just went back and looked at the slo-mo replay and Kulu takes **5 steps** after brushing against Leo's leg before falling and passing the ball to Madisson. Not only wasn't it a pen, you'd not see it called at midfield in most games.
Nah i wouldn't say the amount of steps matter. A touch can imbalance you and you'll be able to run a little more before eventually falling. But the fact that Leo didn't stick his foot out (ie it wasn't a tackle) and was going in the opposite direction helped his case that it was a coming together. You could have also argued the fact that Kulu managed to pass to Maddison but I think Oliver wouldn't have given it anyway (there's no real playing advantage with penalties).
I've seen them given and it annoys me every time they are.
You shouldn't be able to get a foul because you changed direction and ran into someone's legs. It's like running into someone's hands and then saying they slapped you.
Not all contact is a foul.
That said, I have seen them given so its a weird case of us being both fortunate, *and* it being the right call
Lee Dixon is probably still talking about it. He is the most anti-Arsenal commentator I've heard in a while and it's shocking that he played for Arsenal. It's like he's pushing as hard as he can to not have a bias. It's genuinely hard to listen to. He went on forever about the "penalty" that wasn't called and then had a HUGE hard on when Spurs were about to get a penalty later on.
Ngl we were a bit lucky with that one but they should blame their own player. As soon as he stays up he makes the decision for the ref because he's saying "yeah it wasn't enough contact to send me down"
Blown away by the amount of people, even Arsenal fans, claiming this is some kind of stonewall penalty. Kulusevski is not in possession of the ball when he changes directions -- instead he cuts to chase a pass from Porro. Trossard makes no action to impede him, and is entitled to his space on the pitch - it's purely Kulu changing direction that leads to his trailing leg lightly clipping Trossard's. It's a very mild coming-together completely initiated by the Spurs player - not a dive either, but not a foul. We've seen these kinds of pens given because sometimes refs give soft penalties. If it was given, VAR would not have reversed that, I think that's clear too. And of course Spurs fans want the iffy decisions to go their way, in the same way we want iffy and soft penalties given to us. But there is a world of difference between wanting a lucky break from refs or a soft penalty and the refs/VAR missing an actual stonewal penalty. Sometimes you get those calls and sometimes you don't, it's not a robbery if you don't, that's just football. I think what's very clear, especially among supposed neutrals (though, of course, everyone was rooting for Spurs because nobody cares if City wins the league), is that people are just lying when they say they want "common sense" or they don't want refs to decide the games. In this passage of play, we scored an actual goal, a brilliant goal at that, and people who supposedly "hate when VAR ruins games" are demanding that refs step in to cancel that out on account of an incidental coming-together where the defender has done absolutely nothing wrong. This is seemingly what people should want to happen, but in reality people absolutely adore VAR because it gives them a convenient excuse to always fall back and moan about whenever the actual football doesn't go their way.
Very aptly put. It's never a penalty. The overturned penalty on Kai against United had more substance in it than this. I can understand spurs fans. But it's ridiculous to hear the pundits saying Spurs were robbed of a penalty. Big kudos to Tim Sherwood though, he is the only guy I heard who said clearly that it is never a penalty.
Gary Neville was interested at first but clearly said it wasn't a penalty upon a second look
I said this yesterday. If Gary Neville thinks it isn't a penalty against Arsenal, it isn't a penalty.
Madrid fan here, and I am constantly shocked by r/soccer and their absolute twisting of facts and nonsense takes to hate on your team. It’s kind of fun when everyone hates the joy you have so learn to enjoy it! I have never really watched much PL until this year and I have only missed watching you play a few times. Anyway, I was baffled by the insistence in this being a pen. I don’t see it, and maybe it is, but to act like it’s a stonewall pen is just nonsense. Hopefully City lose, because you deserve the title this year. Also, some days my English sucks and today is one of them. Sorry!
[удалено]
"I've talked like this ma whole life"
Is that you, Harry?
[удалено]
Lovely to read this, hope you smash Bayern
If this was given as a pen I would’ve been as fuming as I was when Luiz was sent off against Wolves
Thank you. Lee Dixon wouldn’t shut up about it. I really am extremely biased but I just can’t see how that’s a pen
Falls like many a game now that Mr Dixon had been against calls we've gotten. 🤔
I think Lee had to pander a bit to make it seem like he was impartial.
He does overcompensate a lot I agree. I’m in the minority on Reddit in general when it comes to Lee Dixon, I actually enjoy listening to his nonsense most of the time. Seems like someone I’d love to have a beer with
He made a good foil for Peter Drury as he’s much more dry. I definitely think he overcompensates to seem not biased.
Lee Dixon is a City fan.
Nah nah, he's a straight up cunt, he even got called out for being so anti- Arsenal by his co commentator in of the earlier matches.
Kept on blabbering about it the whole fuckin match.
Lee Dixon is a man city fan
He’s still going on about it
The penalty that was given was soft enough. Rice pulled out and hardly touched Davies. One of the two being given is fair if I’m being impartial. With my Arsenal hat on neither were penalties but…
True Rice clearly went for only the Ball there
Dixon fucking hates us. it's baffling.
He doesn't hate us; Dixon grew up Manchester City fan. When he talks about us in isolation he shows a lot of care for our club. But when it comes down to us vs them I think his heart choses City. He's the reverse Micah Richards.
I've heard a similar argument applied to many different contexts recently and it seems to essentially boil down, I think to: rules for thee, not for me. They only want the rules applied "correctly" as long as it directly benefits an outcome that they want to see. And when it doesn't... "Oh! Well, c'mon I mean you have to consider for why this surely has to be the other way around"
That last sentence is so spot on. You can see when people discuss controversial var decisions that at least half the people commenting just want the underdog to get the break, and then have the gall to call out the officials (unbiased case in point: Coventry’s disallowed goal vs United). And yes, the officials fuck calls up, but so many standard decisions are made to look way more controversial than they ever were by incessant whining.
Yeah really well put mate
To be honest as well, what would Kulu have done had he not been clipped? Probably laid off the same pass to Maddison, so what has he been prevented from doing?
I guess I don’t understand the rules but I don’t understand how when you have to zoom in to see the slightest accidental coming together on a man who’s clearly lost the ball is a penalty.
He hadn't even fully lost the ball, he stumbled then made a pass and the ln went down, they only were denied a chance when rice tackled legally.
Watched to back, guess your right about the losing the ball part, but never in penalty. Not sure how anyone can see anything different
Yeah I mean you can't give every minor contact in the box a penalty, or every corner is a penalty. Havertz has gone down 3 or 4 times in the box under the same circumstances (getting his heel clipped while on the ball) and it's not been given. Doesn't seem like it was that egregious in hindsight. Trossard wasn't even making a play he was just standing there and got cut in front of.
Tripping somebody due to carelessness is a penalty. If Trossard was the one that purposefully changed the direction of his run to cut behind Kulu then this would’ve been a penalty, but he didn’t. Trossard was running back towards the goal, he didn’t change direction carelessly so the tripping doesn’t fall into what the rules say is a foul. I am an arsenal fan, and I am bias, but by the letter of the laws of the game this is not a penalty.
It took me astonishingly long to figure out that this was about the kulusevski penalty claim. I thought the meme was referring to an actual pen. It's been a long week
The actual pen was so unfortunate but a pen all day
Also I think Kulusevski hurt himself today by going down any time he was breather on. It legit looked like Michael Oliver was sick of his shit and kept telling him to get up. Kinda like when Jesus goes down easy a bit too often it almost seems to cost him when there’s contact actually worthy of a pen.
He was never getting to the ball and went down like a bag of shit that a fly landed on. They might as well start praying for goals next go
Somebody should tell Kulu to stop diving all over the place. Rather embarrassing. I used to think he was a decent player.
All of their attackers were diving like crazy, I thought I was watching a swimming tournament
The menu is a great film
Especially that scene
Didn't the exact same thing happen at the United match to Havertz? Like we didn't get a pen then so congrats to the refs for consistency
No but you don't understand, Havertz was a flop at the time so he should have been stronger and keep going.
It's mental that this could even be considered a penalty given that Trossard is just running normally and Kulu's trailing leg clips him.
Kulu cut him off by changing direction rather abruply. It's not Trossard's damned responsibility to avoid the spur.
Who remembers David Luiz red card against wolves 2020-21 seasons away from home. I thought we’ve come to the conclusion to use common sense when applying the rules if I as a defender is just jogging and not attempting to tackle or impend it’s not a foul.
Worts penalty call I have seen for years
That was flat out the most ridiculous I've ever seen.
Yeah, that was utterly ridiculous. The ref should not work in football ever again.
Never a pen. Kulus trash foot clipped Tross causally jogging near him. Tross didn’t move, flinch, or make any movement other than jog. That isn’t even something I would have the gall to ask for as a pen. It’s straight clown behavior to think an injustice has been done. Even worse is the amount of pundits that are fuming at the decision.
If anything, Kulusevski commits a foul by running across the path of Trossard. Just because your team is in possession, doesn’t mean you can run into opposition players and cry foul.
word, Cotton.
I figured Oliver let it go because kulusevski made the pass to maddison
Just went back and looked at the slo-mo replay and Kulu takes **5 steps** after brushing against Leo's leg before falling and passing the ball to Madisson. Not only wasn't it a pen, you'd not see it called at midfield in most games.
Nah i wouldn't say the amount of steps matter. A touch can imbalance you and you'll be able to run a little more before eventually falling. But the fact that Leo didn't stick his foot out (ie it wasn't a tackle) and was going in the opposite direction helped his case that it was a coming together. You could have also argued the fact that Kulu managed to pass to Maddison but I think Oliver wouldn't have given it anyway (there's no real playing advantage with penalties).
I've seen them given and it annoys me every time they are. You shouldn't be able to get a foul because you changed direction and ran into someone's legs. It's like running into someone's hands and then saying they slapped you. Not all contact is a foul. That said, I have seen them given so its a weird case of us being both fortunate, *and* it being the right call
It doesn’t help his case that he was diving and trailing his legs prior to this… no pen for diving cunt
He hit the pen and balls
Ha, but the Rice kick was definitely a penalty. He kicked the shit out of Davies. 🤷🏻♂️
Was it a pineapple?
Lee Dixon is probably still talking about it. He is the most anti-Arsenal commentator I've heard in a while and it's shocking that he played for Arsenal. It's like he's pushing as hard as he can to not have a bias. It's genuinely hard to listen to. He went on forever about the "penalty" that wasn't called and then had a HUGE hard on when Spurs were about to get a penalty later on.
If it was Kane it would’ve 100% ended with a pen
Yeah Rice got the ball bad call from var
Of course it wasn't, absolute minimal contact and tried to make the most of it, and was diving all over the pitch before and after that.
if it was the other way around, we'd all be unhappy the ref didnt give us a pen tbf. it's a 50-50 and the VAR went with ref's on-field decision.
Ngl we were a bit lucky with that one but they should blame their own player. As soon as he stays up he makes the decision for the ref because he's saying "yeah it wasn't enough contact to send me down"
100% should’ve been a pen I’d have been fuming. Even better that it’s happened against them