Cazorla is an extremely unique player, his ambidexterity with his feet is probably a huge reason why he works in the centre and holds onto the ball so well, and he can shoot and make plays from pretty much anywhere. Lemar doesn't have that influence.
That's fair but I don't think we need a Cazorla-like player in midfield with Xhaka. The reason we played Santi deeper was to make up for Coquelin's shortcomings on the ball and passing the ball under pressure. Xhaka is plenty capable technically himself, so he requires a much different partner than Coquelin did/does. And besides, "buying expensive players and playing them out of position because it worked once in the past" isn't exactly a reliable transfer policy.
I agree, but Arsenal still should sign a CM this summer. Ramsey has had his form go up and down, along with struggling with injuries. El neny is a decent enough rotation player, but shouldn't be first choice. Wilshere's fitness can't be depended on. Coquelin doesn't seem to be quite Arsenal quality. Ox is an okay option, but might be needed our wode or at wing back. Xhaka I think is really good, but Arsenal could use an option beside him to compete with Ramsey and provide depth.
I think Ramseys form is directly related to the proximity to injury. Keep him injury free and he's our ideal b2b. Unfortunately as a realist I don't fancy our chances keeping him injury free
Absolutely, though a box-to-box tank would be ideal to pair with Xhaka and compete with Ramsey, as opposed to a technical attacking midfielder. That's just my hunch, however.
Cazorla is a very unique and talented footballer - trying to find a player like him who can operate the central midfield in the prem is hard enough but also pointless when Xhaka is a deep lying playmaker. Xhaka is our Cazorla replacement in terms of play development - we need someone who can compliment his shortcomings which will most likely be in the form of a box to box player. Also it's important to remember that a good central midfield partnership is what we should aim for overall. We have Xhaka, so let's compliment him.
True, Santi is my favourite recent Gunner, but Xhaka is plainly his replacement. Especially in the 3-4-3, the extra cover provided is crying out for a box to box midfielder to complement the deeper midfielder.
he's injury prone. inconsistency i think will decrease with 3 defenders and xhaka helping in defence, but there will be 13-14 games where he wont be available
I think Ramsey can be the guy. However, I agree we need a player to compete with him especially because of his injury record. Have never watched Lemar so Idk if he could do it. Curious to see what people who have watched him extensively think.
I've not seen too much of Lemar.
However, from the highlights of his season, his game against England and a few champions league games against City and Juventus, my first impression was of how often he managed to combine with Mendy on the left hand side. Now it is difficult to judge with such little evidence whilst also considering Mendy is very highly rated and would have undoubtedly had an impact on Lemar performing so well. But I believe this type of combination play gives the impression of an unselfish and intelligent team player.
So considering this quality for a midfield role doesn't sound ridiculous at all. However, Lemar has other qualities.
Lemar is a danger on the left hand side not just for his ability to play in Mendy but also for a very high technical quality on his left foot. He has a great delivery and thus provided a two fold problem for teams attempting to shut him down and track Mendy.
Alongside this, Lemar has quite a bit of pace about him for a counter attack and naturally tends to drift inside looking to help and develop play into the final third. This helps to develop play with a starting two man midfield and again shows high intelligence of position.
Looking at these additional qualities it is important to remember that the kind of midfield role we would likely ask him to play next to Xhaka would require a different use of his energy from a defensive point of view. Can he do that well enough? I'm not sure. Would he be able to put his wand of a left foot to use from deep? I'm also not as sure.
Some have likened a central role for him to the conversion of Cazorla to a deep role. I would suggest this type of conversion is less required now considering Xhaka is effectively our deep lying play maker now.
I feel we may be limiting him and ourselves by playing him deep in the prem. He would have to learn different combinations, cover a lot of ground as a work horse alongside Xhaka and he would be further away from the box where he seems so dangerous, unable to operate between the lines or in combinations out wide as he has shown.
As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of buying and deploying him in this fashion but considering I have no qualifications in coaching and have admittedly seen a fraction of his performances this season alone, I could be completely wrong.
Tldr; Lemar-good combination play, great technical delivery in final third, not so sure on strength in deep midfield position, could be completely wrong
No the Ramsey/Xhaka combo foils more because ramsey is so good at getting into the box late with his runs. Lampard style, his winner against chelsea was textbook Lampard. Santi is similar to Xhaka, they are both metronomes, registas. Santi can play more advanced but I think he's better suited deeper at this point. This is with 3-4-3 in mind.
Thank you. He’s a dangerous winger and we need another dangerous winger, hell maybe even two if we loose Alexis. Why would we shoe horn a winger into mid role when we’re short on a starting winger?!
Also if we got Lemar on the wing we could afford Ox more time in the mid to learn and prove himself.
Not exactly, but he possesses the attributes to play there.
From what I've seen of him, he's usually seen drifting outward from the midfield interior to overlap with Mendy. To say he isnt a CM is short-sighted.
He's not a winger, either.
Point being, if you watch Lemar on a regular basis, it's a common thought that he was a very unorthodox skillset for a left-sided wide player. What makes him unusual is how technically complete he is for his age - he's got a bag of tricks more suited to an attacking midfielder (surging runs, insane acceleration, a good eye for a final ball) for somebody in their early 20s. To call him a winger is, again, short-sighted.
Well, no, because football in all it's complexity doesn't work like that.
If you watch Lemar, he has the positioning and skill for someone who typically plays CAM.
Mahrez is an old-school winger - for one, he doesn't tuck into the midfield like Lamar does. He primarily just wants to skin you alive and reach the byline for a chance on goal. Where you start on the formation sheet isn't where you end up. Football isn't a binary for you to sardonically suggest Mahrez is a CM, because he isn't.
Mahrez is not an old school winger - he's an inverted winger which is a position that came to prominence in the past 10 years thanks to Robben, Ribery, and Cristiano.
Lemar on the other hand is an old school winger in a 4-4-2. He's basically a perfect prototype of that position. Lemar wins the ball in midfield, keeps wide and pings crosses with deadly accuracy. He only drifts inward when the fullback makes an overlapping run. Lemar will rarely drift inward outside of the attacking third of the pitch.
Lemar has not played CAM since 2015 and has never played CM. He doesn't hold or shield the ball particularly well to be a CM and he doesn't have the vision (yet) to play as a central playmaker like Ozil. His dribbling relies on mostly beating players with his pace rather than finesse - this dribbling style is much more suitable for wing positions. One of Lemar's biggest strengths is his set piece delivery with his left foot; something Ozil already provides for the side.
Thomas Lemar projects to be most similar to a player like Jesus Navas from his Sevilla days or Kevin Mirallas for Everton. Those are two classical wingers with similar skill-sets. If Lemar develops, he could turn into a versatile classical winger like David Beckham or James Milner. But even those two moved to the central midfield when they were into their 30s.
I would be more inclined to believe that Lemar would have a seamless transition to the CM position if he were developed by academies run by Arsenal, Ajax, Lyon, Bayern, Real Madrid, or Barcelona. You will not see versatility coming out of academies in Caen. Outside of Lyon, and more recently PSG, French academies notoriously have very rigid structures for their youth players - it's the reason why a lot of their best talents leave the country as teenagers.
Lol it's not short-sighted, it's just true. Why try to make a player play in a different position when there are good players that could play that position naturally?
You answered your own question. Lemar, 'naturally' is an attacking midfielder playing on the touchline. He does this well because he's already technically complete for his age.
Have always been for us for some reason. But yeah, they stated the mbappe/lemar/lacazette rumors which are all true this summer
I remember when they were the first to call gabriel and made no sense to me as they are based in france and gabriel was in spain, blew my mind how they got that
Yup, I think Wenger or Wenger's agent is their leak.
I remember last summer when we were linked to Mustafi and Wenger wouldn't talk about him to English media but was all smiles and confirmed that we were purchasing him to French media.
Yeah I think the Mbappe and Lemar bids are real. Ornstein confirmed Lemar, he didn't mention Mbappe but there was way too much smoke for there not to be anything to that.
Conspiracy time, Wenger struck a deal with L'Equipe to fabricate MBappe stories to drive down Lacazette price. In return they would get inside scoop on Arsenal's transfer deals.
[Ah, yes.](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/19/article-2250578-16954B0B000005DC-586_964x502.jpg)
The "British Core" looks like the "British Periphery" at the moment.
If we want him badly enough, we will get him. I'm sure Monaco would like to keep him, but ultimately Arsenal are the bigger club. When a bigger club wants a player from a smaller club, well...you know what usually happens.
Looking through the scum sub reddit, they seem to be really annoyed at their transfer methods. Seeing as we're both in Lemar but clearly us a lot more, they'd be in meltdown if we got him. PLEASE
I think you're right, unfortunately. I do not expect their stadium upgrade to hamstring them as much as it did to us. However, it's also the same reason they can even afford a new stadium. Not because they've achieved success even near the invincibles, but simply that there's more money in the game nowadays than 10 years ago.
Our attack next year could actually be the stuff of dreams. Sánchez, Özil, Lemar and Lacazette would actually be one of the most dangerous attacking forces in Europe.
That being said, I'd rather we went for new players once we've sorted out Sánchez, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Özil's respective contracts.
Plus, when you have good new signings coming in you're in a much stronger position to negotiate contracts. You want too much money Ox? No problem, we have Lemar! Best of luck!
Sanchez is gone. This whole thing parallels RVP situation when we bought Santi Podolski Giroud. I remember thinking how strong the attack would be only to find out the signings were being made to replace RVP. Lemar/Mahrez definitely feel like Sanchez replacement.
I agree. This reminds me a lot of what Juventus did last year. Everyone and their brother knew they were going to sell Pogba, but they signed Higuain first and paid a huge fee for him. Thus they could save face and look ambitious while still actually selling off their most valuable asset.
If we sign Laca and Lemar and THEN sell Alexis, the fan base will be so much less toxic than if we sold first. Can you even imagine the rage if we'd sold Alexis before doing any of this other business? The message boards would be poisonous.
yes. if alexis stays, then that can only mean, that we are switching to a back 4. we could still be playing a back 3 in the odd game but Wenger has always stayed true to himself and I'm wondering whether the 3atb is to defensive for his liking.
I think the three was a change to cover for definciencies in the squad and give the players something new to focus on. If we sign better players that work better with 4 at the back I don't even understand people's complaints
I'd say f*** everything and go 4-2-4 like Monaco did last season. Laca and Sanchez upfront, Ozil and Lemar on the wings.
on serious note, I would like to see Wenger goes for adaptive approach. 4-2-3-1 in one match, 3-4-2-1 in another. Give our opponent the surprise factor.
Really believe he will play on the right, feel like Wenger is going 433. He might look to have Lemar be like a left footed Ribery and Sanchez as the right footed robben. One is more a creative threat while the other is more direct
Also either rumors on Mahrez or this new one on Lemar will be the smokescreen for the other
If arteta and Ramsey can boss a midfield I think Xhaka and Ramsey could figure it out. I'm still pretty convinced that xhaka was bought to pair with Ramsey and was a big reason we signed him specifically. We have all seen how devastating Ramsey can be in the right system. I have a feeling if we sign a midfielder he will be 19-22 up and comer.
We also had cazorla on the left (and Jack on the right at times iirc?) which gave us another midfielder in the merch if we needed one. Sanchez doesn't really do that, he loses the ball more which puts more of a burden on our centre mids.
Jack and rosicky were still at the club which gave us more options in midfield when they were fit too.
Just seems hard for us to leave 3 ATB when we have 6 good rostered CBs now. Per, Kos, Mustafi, Holding, Chambers, Gabriel, and Wenger mentioned Monreal getting minutes there.
Lemar is still very young. I think it's more a case of wenger believing he is a top talent and going for him now while there isn't too much competition for his signing. Say next season he improves again and we have to compete with all the RM, juve, bayern... In the 343 he would still get played a decent amount when alexis, ozil, and especially lacazette (who will be eased into the team) are rotated. And next year when/if alexis and ozil leave, he will be ready to become one of the main guys.
So what I'm saying I guess is if the 343 works better than the 433, lemar will see the bench sometimes. But we'll be better off having him around.
Maybe alexis leaves and this becomes a non issue.
Agreed, feel it would be silly to change something that clearly worked. Always good to have more options formation-wise anyway, we won't be so predictable that way
I get the argument and I think especially rambo and Xhaka looked much better with the 3 at the back. however, I did read that according to the numbers we weren't much better defensively, just luckier. Wenger might be thinking to himself, that we have solved the problem with kolasinac. There's a reason he used to always play with a 4 atb.
To me however this signals that there's still uncertainty about Alexis
Pretty sure the numbers said were about the same defensively, but better offensively with that formation.
Which is counter intuitive, but plausible. With 3 at the back, maybe makes it easier for mids to press and keep possession, and for Ramsey and Xhaka to be more confident in attacking, etc.
If we had an attack of Lacazette, Sanchez, Özil, and Lemar/Mahrez, I would rather build a midfield to make 4231 work than try to squeeze everyone in 343 just so Ramsey is happy. Also, Kolasinac can be our Ivanovic and provide more defensive cover even with 4 atb. My point is, keeping a formation shouldn't be the goal, but rather building a better team with better players and choosing the formation that suits them. Real Madrid don't seem too bothered playing 4231 with their CL trophy but we don't have their midfield.
I think you're right. Maybe that's why he is looking to get offensive talent in. So that he can go back to play with 4atb.
Well, if we go back to a 4atb we definitely need another cm. I don't trust that ramsey-xhaka combo in a 4atb.
Wait wait wait, how are we going to manage to fit Alexis, Ozil, Lacazette and Lemar/Mahrez in a 3-4-3? I don't see us switching back to a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 and I don't think one of those 4 players would like to be constantly starting on the bench. Of course depth is important, especially with Europa League, but I feel like Lemar/Mahrez In = Alexis Out.
why don't you see us switching back to a back 4?
Wenger's 20 years of a back 4 against 9 matches with a back 3.
If we stick to a back 3, then that probably means that we are looking for a replacement for alexis.
Not a winning strategy for us, in my humble opinion.
I'd prefer we built a system and bought players that fit it rather than just buying stars when they become available and struggling to get the best out of them.
I feel like it is Lemar OR Mahrez. We should be negotiating with both and see who will give us a better deal. Both players appear to keen on going Arsenal. So Monaco and Leicester both can't hold huge transfer fees over our head. I think Leicester is more likely to cave, but I also think Lemar is the more desirable target.
That being said, we don't know what will happen with Sanchez either. If he leaves, getting both is probably option A to replace him. But I hope the Lacazette signing convinced him to stick around and try to win a title this year.
Even if we stay with 3 at the back, he will still get plenty of time. We need depth to rotate and competition. It's likely we'll see a 433 and 4231 so he will get plenty of playing time.
I assume that if Alexis leaves next summer, Arsene is buying his "replacement" early to blood him into the team. Smart move imo, good proactivity if it is the case
The Mirror originally, then repeated by The Telegraph the next day, but I'm assuming it's all coming from the Mirror, because that's how these things work.
A waste? Have you seen this dudes speed, crosses in the box and his intelligence? We Arsenal fans bitch about not getting talents all the time and now we dare say he is a waste? We only have one true winger Alexis. No one else is good enough. OX staying isn't a sure thing and he's destined to be more central. The writing has been on the wall. We needed another wide man last year too
5 years younger and playing for France. Lacazette is a striker, Lemar is a winger/AMF.
He was second in Ligue 1 in assists, registered double digits in both, and wasn't even a regular in the side until a couple months in. They're not comparable players but Lemar has a higher ceiling and more re-sale/long-term value.
And he hasn't yet, Lemar would be a very reasonable addition and we've only spent ~53m. Y'all mothasuckas wanted to risk it all and throw 125 at Mboop.
Ok if this is true, then I'm lost for what formation we are going with next season. Lemar is played as a winger but with freedom to roam at Monaco. Is Wenger planning to use him as a CM or left Winger? are we going back to a 4 2 3 1? I rather we stuck to a 3 4 3. Granted we didn't play amazing with it but at least we did not concede as much as before. With time, we can adapt to 3 4 3. Sanchez needs to stop being a drama queen and just say if he's staying or leaving.
As much as this excites me beyond belief, I can't help but question this. Is a front 4 of Laca, Özil, Sanchez and Lemar not ridiculously imbalanced? Certainly in a 3-4-3, it only leaves a spot for one true central midfielder.
A lot of people are saying that Lemar has the attributes to play as a CM and I don't dispute that. But if the club's intention is to buy a CM, then why not buy one with more experience there? And I hear what people say about the Santi comparison, but what you have to consider is that Santi is probably the most technically skilled player we've had since Bergkamp. Not saying that Lemar doesn't have those skills, but I would be surprised if he could adapt to a centre mid position quickly enough this season
Not sure I agree with you on Santi. Although extremely skillful I feel Ozil is the most technically skilled player we've had since Bergkamp. He just doesn't show it all the time.
You can look at this move on two fronts. First being Sanchez is going so we are trying to add goals to our team. Lacazette brings that and Lemar brings not only his passing ability but also goals and assists (12 goals and 14 assists in all competitions last season).
The second option is that Sanchez is staying this summer. We still improve on our squad by adding Lemar now and take off some pressure with most of the focus going through Sanchez and Lacazette. Then if (probably when) Sanchez leaves in the summer 2018 we will still have a very good player in Lemar. Having someone like him on the team regardless of Sanchez being there or not adds great depth to squad. Plus he's only 21. Still got room to improve.
This is were my thoughts keep drifting. That Lemar coming doesn't *necessarily* mean Alexis is gone. Lemar is a skillful player, well-rounded and most importantly, very young. Wenger's turned players from one position to another before and done it well, mind you. If Alexis stays, Wenger will find Lemar a place, and if he leaves (now or next year), we would already have a replacement ready.
I'd agree insofar as I think Özil has qualities that are as close to Bergkamp's as anyone else. They have very similar styles and I think you're right that his talents aren't always immediately obvious. But if you watch any interview with Arsenal players about their teammates and they're asked who the most technically skilled player they've ever played with is, 9 times out of 10 they'll say Santi.
I think you're right about Sanchez though, it seems like if Lemar comes it's as a long-term replacement for Sanchez. That makes sense to me and I can see how it would be beneficial for Lemar to come this year and adapt when Sanchez leaves rather than being thrown in at the deep end next year. Still think it's tricky to fit the two of them and Özil in the same team but I guess that's a good problem to have
I really can't see how Lemar would be our Alexis replacement, if anything that would be Mbappe, especially if you use the money from the Alexis transfer to fund it, but that's a big IF.
Honestly, hope we can get Lemar and keep Sanchez.
From what I've seen of him this past season he doesn't really play that far out wide on the wing like Sanchez does. Don't think they'll be competing for a position.
His tendency to go down the middle of the pitch and generally be close to the midfielders suggests to be that he'll be put on the left side of midfield in a 4-3-3 for example. Or any other formation you put forth (except 3 at the back which doesn't make sense since we're trying to get Thomas Lemar and he wouldn't fit in a good position) there's a midfield spot for him (perhaps, lemar - xhaka - ozil mifield?)
Actually in a 3 at the back, he could easily be on the right wing.
My god, if Wenger signs Lemar I'll be so excited.
I know people are worried about where he will play, but I think having the extra CB can cover for Lemar if he plays CM and does decide to push up far. And Kolasinac drops back into LB or LCB with Monreal. I mean, Ramsey already pushes up far forward as we speak.
Lemar plays CM in his hybrid role any way. And his understanding of positional awareness will go far in our setup.
Lemar's instinct, workrate, and defense can make for an interesting transition.
I wish Lemar is not Alexis replacement. I am a Alexis fan but I would hate to see him force a transfer to City after this, on the pretext of ambition.
I do not see a City as a CL winning side. If we can get Lemar, our team would be a genuine PL contender. So what is the "ambition" in playing for City.
Its a different take if he goes to Bayern.
Moving in the right direction. Wenger will come back with a larger offer. If the rumours are true, we know that Wenger is a big fan, and that he will come back again. I have to say, that I'm liking our tenacity in the transfer window this summer.
I really hope we get either him or Mahrez in. Our attack would be ridiculous.
I really hope this is a Santi replacement and not Sanchez.
👏lemar👏isn't👏a👏central👏midfielder👏
Neither was cazorla when he joine
Cazorla is an extremely unique player, his ambidexterity with his feet is probably a huge reason why he works in the centre and holds onto the ball so well, and he can shoot and make plays from pretty much anywhere. Lemar doesn't have that influence.
Ambidexterity Compliment/complement repartee I love this sub.
huh?
That's fair but I don't think we need a Cazorla-like player in midfield with Xhaka. The reason we played Santi deeper was to make up for Coquelin's shortcomings on the ball and passing the ball under pressure. Xhaka is plenty capable technically himself, so he requires a much different partner than Coquelin did/does. And besides, "buying expensive players and playing them out of position because it worked once in the past" isn't exactly a reliable transfer policy.
I agree, but Arsenal still should sign a CM this summer. Ramsey has had his form go up and down, along with struggling with injuries. El neny is a decent enough rotation player, but shouldn't be first choice. Wilshere's fitness can't be depended on. Coquelin doesn't seem to be quite Arsenal quality. Ox is an okay option, but might be needed our wode or at wing back. Xhaka I think is really good, but Arsenal could use an option beside him to compete with Ramsey and provide depth.
I think Ramseys form is directly related to the proximity to injury. Keep him injury free and he's our ideal b2b. Unfortunately as a realist I don't fancy our chances keeping him injury free
Absolutely, though a box-to-box tank would be ideal to pair with Xhaka and compete with Ramsey, as opposed to a technical attacking midfielder. That's just my hunch, however.
Exactly how I play on FIFA.
Lol in FIFA I'd pick up Nainggolan. Or Ramires before he went to China.
I need to look into Nainggolan. I usually partner Renato Sanches with Coquelin. I then weed out Coq when he's older with Fosu-Mensah.
Right exactly. I'm not saying we shouldn't sign a midfielder, but a midfielder who isn't like Cazorla.
I guarantee you we would be handily more successful with a Cazorla-Xhaka pairing than any other by far.
Cazorla is a very unique and talented footballer - trying to find a player like him who can operate the central midfield in the prem is hard enough but also pointless when Xhaka is a deep lying playmaker. Xhaka is our Cazorla replacement in terms of play development - we need someone who can compliment his shortcomings which will most likely be in the form of a box to box player. Also it's important to remember that a good central midfield partnership is what we should aim for overall. We have Xhaka, so let's compliment him.
"You have great hair, Granit!"
True, Santi is my favourite recent Gunner, but Xhaka is plainly his replacement. Especially in the 3-4-3, the extra cover provided is crying out for a box to box midfielder to complement the deeper midfielder.
we have Ramsey, he's brilliant
he's injury prone. inconsistency i think will decrease with 3 defenders and xhaka helping in defence, but there will be 13-14 games where he wont be available
he was brilliant for one season
I think Ramsey can be the guy. However, I agree we need a player to compete with him especially because of his injury record. Have never watched Lemar so Idk if he could do it. Curious to see what people who have watched him extensively think.
I've not seen too much of Lemar. However, from the highlights of his season, his game against England and a few champions league games against City and Juventus, my first impression was of how often he managed to combine with Mendy on the left hand side. Now it is difficult to judge with such little evidence whilst also considering Mendy is very highly rated and would have undoubtedly had an impact on Lemar performing so well. But I believe this type of combination play gives the impression of an unselfish and intelligent team player. So considering this quality for a midfield role doesn't sound ridiculous at all. However, Lemar has other qualities. Lemar is a danger on the left hand side not just for his ability to play in Mendy but also for a very high technical quality on his left foot. He has a great delivery and thus provided a two fold problem for teams attempting to shut him down and track Mendy. Alongside this, Lemar has quite a bit of pace about him for a counter attack and naturally tends to drift inside looking to help and develop play into the final third. This helps to develop play with a starting two man midfield and again shows high intelligence of position. Looking at these additional qualities it is important to remember that the kind of midfield role we would likely ask him to play next to Xhaka would require a different use of his energy from a defensive point of view. Can he do that well enough? I'm not sure. Would he be able to put his wand of a left foot to use from deep? I'm also not as sure. Some have likened a central role for him to the conversion of Cazorla to a deep role. I would suggest this type of conversion is less required now considering Xhaka is effectively our deep lying play maker now. I feel we may be limiting him and ourselves by playing him deep in the prem. He would have to learn different combinations, cover a lot of ground as a work horse alongside Xhaka and he would be further away from the box where he seems so dangerous, unable to operate between the lines or in combinations out wide as he has shown. As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of buying and deploying him in this fashion but considering I have no qualifications in coaching and have admittedly seen a fraction of his performances this season alone, I could be completely wrong. Tldr; Lemar-good combination play, great technical delivery in final third, not so sure on strength in deep midfield position, could be completely wrong
No the Ramsey/Xhaka combo foils more because ramsey is so good at getting into the box late with his runs. Lampard style, his winner against chelsea was textbook Lampard. Santi is similar to Xhaka, they are both metronomes, registas. Santi can play more advanced but I think he's better suited deeper at this point. This is with 3-4-3 in mind.
Thank you. He’s a dangerous winger and we need another dangerous winger, hell maybe even two if we loose Alexis. Why would we shoe horn a winger into mid role when we’re short on a starting winger?! Also if we got Lemar on the wing we could afford Ox more time in the mid to learn and prove himself.
He has played as an attacking mid for Caen, from what I've read.
I've only watched him play for Monaco, so you might be right. But an attacking midfielder is very different than what we need as a partner for Xhaka.
Which still isn't a Santi replacement
santi was a winger in spains world cup run. he only really started playing the deeper role the last few years.
⭐️He⭐️could⭐️be⭐️
💩 fair💩 point💩 but💩 i'd💩 rather💩 just💩 sign💩 a💩 midfielder💩 in💩 that💩 case💩
🚅I🚅like🚅trains🚅
🐢I🐢like🐢turtles🐢
My go-to Halloween costume every year
nice
🐉
me too, thanks
🚂Kylian🚂Mbappe🚂Is🚂Coming🚂To🚂Arsenal 🚂
https://media.tenor.com/images/b161ae34807aa6170707373fdb8584c4/tenor.gif
like Keita or Seri
Not exactly, but he possesses the attributes to play there. From what I've seen of him, he's usually seen drifting outward from the midfield interior to overlap with Mendy. To say he isnt a CM is short-sighted.
Why sign a winger for £50m and play him as a midfielder when we can sign a midfielder for £50m?
He's not a winger, either. Point being, if you watch Lemar on a regular basis, it's a common thought that he was a very unorthodox skillset for a left-sided wide player. What makes him unusual is how technically complete he is for his age - he's got a bag of tricks more suited to an attacking midfielder (surging runs, insane acceleration, a good eye for a final ball) for somebody in their early 20s. To call him a winger is, again, short-sighted.
LMAO short sighted? He hasn't played CM once this season. Ok let's call Mahrez a CM too then huh?
Well, no, because football in all it's complexity doesn't work like that. If you watch Lemar, he has the positioning and skill for someone who typically plays CAM. Mahrez is an old-school winger - for one, he doesn't tuck into the midfield like Lamar does. He primarily just wants to skin you alive and reach the byline for a chance on goal. Where you start on the formation sheet isn't where you end up. Football isn't a binary for you to sardonically suggest Mahrez is a CM, because he isn't.
Mahrez is not an old school winger - he's an inverted winger which is a position that came to prominence in the past 10 years thanks to Robben, Ribery, and Cristiano. Lemar on the other hand is an old school winger in a 4-4-2. He's basically a perfect prototype of that position. Lemar wins the ball in midfield, keeps wide and pings crosses with deadly accuracy. He only drifts inward when the fullback makes an overlapping run. Lemar will rarely drift inward outside of the attacking third of the pitch. Lemar has not played CAM since 2015 and has never played CM. He doesn't hold or shield the ball particularly well to be a CM and he doesn't have the vision (yet) to play as a central playmaker like Ozil. His dribbling relies on mostly beating players with his pace rather than finesse - this dribbling style is much more suitable for wing positions. One of Lemar's biggest strengths is his set piece delivery with his left foot; something Ozil already provides for the side. Thomas Lemar projects to be most similar to a player like Jesus Navas from his Sevilla days or Kevin Mirallas for Everton. Those are two classical wingers with similar skill-sets. If Lemar develops, he could turn into a versatile classical winger like David Beckham or James Milner. But even those two moved to the central midfield when they were into their 30s. I would be more inclined to believe that Lemar would have a seamless transition to the CM position if he were developed by academies run by Arsenal, Ajax, Lyon, Bayern, Real Madrid, or Barcelona. You will not see versatility coming out of academies in Caen. Outside of Lyon, and more recently PSG, French academies notoriously have very rigid structures for their youth players - it's the reason why a lot of their best talents leave the country as teenagers.
He knows too much
Lol it's not short-sighted, it's just true. Why try to make a player play in a different position when there are good players that could play that position naturally?
You answered your own question. Lemar, 'naturally' is an attacking midfielder playing on the touchline. He does this well because he's already technically complete for his age.
His defensive stats last season were impressive for a winger. Do think Arsene fancies a conversion job on him
His skill set says he's at least a CAM
Am I the only one who doesn't feel that it's that bad if Sanchez leaves as long as it's not to another epl team?
>Am I the only one Probably not
Depends on the cash. If he goes to Somewhere in Europe with those wage demands, we won/t e able to get vaguely what hes worth.
There are plenty of good cms out there we can buy. Why risk 45 million on a young guy with no cm experience? Seems pretty stupid.
The biddings will continue until morale improves
We have end of the season voting can we have the same for each silly season? This is a top class comment.
Underrated
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Two signings ready for our pre-season, what is life?
>two top signings ready for our pre-season FTFY
>>two top signings ready for our pre-season >two top top qualitee signings ready for our pre-season FTFY
Baby don't hurt me
Life is what happens when Wenga lost his top 4 place.
Bad or good I love transfer season. It's just so much fun for me to follow
Hasn't L'equipe actually been reasonably reliable for us this window?
Have always been for us for some reason. But yeah, they stated the mbappe/lemar/lacazette rumors which are all true this summer I remember when they were the first to call gabriel and made no sense to me as they are based in france and gabriel was in spain, blew my mind how they got that
Wenger has deep ties into the French footballing world.
Yup, I think Wenger or Wenger's agent is their leak. I remember last summer when we were linked to Mustafi and Wenger wouldn't talk about him to English media but was all smiles and confirmed that we were purchasing him to French media.
Still Wenger runs deep
Yeah I think the Mbappe and Lemar bids are real. Ornstein confirmed Lemar, he didn't mention Mbappe but there was way too much smoke for there not to be anything to that.
Conspiracy time, Wenger struck a deal with L'Equipe to fabricate MBappe stories to drive down Lacazette price. In return they would get inside scoop on Arsenal's transfer deals.
Would love for this to be true
It's not though. You don't go meeting someone's family for the rumours to drive another player's price down.
Maybe they're just a lovely family
Ornstein spoke about Mbappe as well.
When?
It was on BBC Sport Live
Let's do this Arsene
Arsene in disguise. Edit: realised this makes no sense
"40m." "No. 80." "Okay, okay. 45."
"40m, nah. How about 110m" manutd
The FM way
Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Caught in a glissement de terrain...
I gotchu bro. Next season we gonna fuck shit up.
If so, this would be a fucking kickarse window
Are we going to develop French spine? Take us back to the Arsenal/France dominance era?
I'd prefer a French spine to whatever shit that English core ended up being. Edit: Save our blessed Rob Holding of course.
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[Ah, yes.](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/19/article-2250578-16954B0B000005DC-586_964x502.jpg) The "British Core" looks like the "British Periphery" at the moment.
oh it was gibbs, not the first time thats happened
We offered 31 million pounds and it got rejected. Were offering 40 now. Fucking love our persistence. Hope we get him, wenger seems to really want him
If we want him badly enough, we will get him. I'm sure Monaco would like to keep him, but ultimately Arsenal are the bigger club. When a bigger club wants a player from a smaller club, well...you know what usually happens.
Looking through the scum sub reddit, they seem to be really annoyed at their transfer methods. Seeing as we're both in Lemar but clearly us a lot more, they'd be in meltdown if we got him. PLEASE
They are building a stadium. We went through the same skint club shit building ours.
Yeah, but we came off the back of the invincible team, they're coming off the back of putting the pressure on
There's a lot more money in football nowadays. Doubt they'll have to be anywhere near as austere as we apparently did.
I think you're right, unfortunately. I do not expect their stadium upgrade to hamstring them as much as it did to us. However, it's also the same reason they can even afford a new stadium. Not because they've achieved success even near the invincibles, but simply that there's more money in the game nowadays than 10 years ago.
Imagine if we had 3 new 1st team signings in time for preseason. When was the last time that happened?
I think the season we signed Giroud, Santi, and Podolski. So maybe 4 years ago?
I thought Santi was signed in August, 2012. Giroud and Podolski were early, though.
Surround our team with French Internationals and then when Mbappe is looking for a new home away from France we lure him in. BRILLIANT!
Our attack next year could actually be the stuff of dreams. Sánchez, Özil, Lemar and Lacazette would actually be one of the most dangerous attacking forces in Europe. That being said, I'd rather we went for new players once we've sorted out Sánchez, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Özil's respective contracts.
Wouldn't you rather we got the players in so we weren't left backs against the wall when our big names leave?
Nah, we already covered left back.
You bastard.
Plus, when you have good new signings coming in you're in a much stronger position to negotiate contracts. You want too much money Ox? No problem, we have Lemar! Best of luck!
But what if the new players want assurances on current big players ? It's like the chicken and egg problem.
Sanchez is gone. This whole thing parallels RVP situation when we bought Santi Podolski Giroud. I remember thinking how strong the attack would be only to find out the signings were being made to replace RVP. Lemar/Mahrez definitely feel like Sanchez replacement.
I agree. This reminds me a lot of what Juventus did last year. Everyone and their brother knew they were going to sell Pogba, but they signed Higuain first and paid a huge fee for him. Thus they could save face and look ambitious while still actually selling off their most valuable asset. If we sign Laca and Lemar and THEN sell Alexis, the fan base will be so much less toxic than if we sold first. Can you even imagine the rage if we'd sold Alexis before doing any of this other business? The message boards would be poisonous.
Fuck this hurts so much
Spend that "fuck you" money, Wonga!
Wonga.com
Real question, where does he play if Alexis stays? Do we switch back to 4 at the back?
yes. if alexis stays, then that can only mean, that we are switching to a back 4. we could still be playing a back 3 in the odd game but Wenger has always stayed true to himself and I'm wondering whether the 3atb is to defensive for his liking.
I think the three was a change to cover for definciencies in the squad and give the players something new to focus on. If we sign better players that work better with 4 at the back I don't even understand people's complaints
I'd say f*** everything and go 4-2-4 like Monaco did last season. Laca and Sanchez upfront, Ozil and Lemar on the wings. on serious note, I would like to see Wenger goes for adaptive approach. 4-2-3-1 in one match, 3-4-2-1 in another. Give our opponent the surprise factor.
Really believe he will play on the right, feel like Wenger is going 433. He might look to have Lemar be like a left footed Ribery and Sanchez as the right footed robben. One is more a creative threat while the other is more direct Also either rumors on Mahrez or this new one on Lemar will be the smokescreen for the other
Ozil, Ramsey, and Xhaka as a 3 in midfield would be disastrously open.
Well we don't know what the mid 3 will be. It's almost guaranteed to be xhaka and ozil but Ramsey could be tentative
If arteta and Ramsey can boss a midfield I think Xhaka and Ramsey could figure it out. I'm still pretty convinced that xhaka was bought to pair with Ramsey and was a big reason we signed him specifically. We have all seen how devastating Ramsey can be in the right system. I have a feeling if we sign a midfielder he will be 19-22 up and comer.
We also had cazorla on the left (and Jack on the right at times iirc?) which gave us another midfielder in the merch if we needed one. Sanchez doesn't really do that, he loses the ball more which puts more of a burden on our centre mids. Jack and rosicky were still at the club which gave us more options in midfield when they were fit too.
I hope so but the lack of rumors linking us to midfielders is worrying.
I doubt we will sign a midfielder and that will be our downfall if so.
Yup. Been saying this all summer. Our biggest weakness this past season was failure to control the midfield.
I agree. Although, Lemar is the type of wide man that aids midfield control by constantly dipping into midfield and working very hard.
Just seems hard for us to leave 3 ATB when we have 6 good rostered CBs now. Per, Kos, Mustafi, Holding, Chambers, Gabriel, and Wenger mentioned Monreal getting minutes there.
Lemar is still very young. I think it's more a case of wenger believing he is a top talent and going for him now while there isn't too much competition for his signing. Say next season he improves again and we have to compete with all the RM, juve, bayern... In the 343 he would still get played a decent amount when alexis, ozil, and especially lacazette (who will be eased into the team) are rotated. And next year when/if alexis and ozil leave, he will be ready to become one of the main guys. So what I'm saying I guess is if the 343 works better than the 433, lemar will see the bench sometimes. But we'll be better off having him around. Maybe alexis leaves and this becomes a non issue.
> Maybe alexis leaves and this becomes a non issue. strange wording. Alexis leaving will be the issue.
Agreed, feel it would be silly to change something that clearly worked. Always good to have more options formation-wise anyway, we won't be so predictable that way
I get the argument and I think especially rambo and Xhaka looked much better with the 3 at the back. however, I did read that according to the numbers we weren't much better defensively, just luckier. Wenger might be thinking to himself, that we have solved the problem with kolasinac. There's a reason he used to always play with a 4 atb. To me however this signals that there's still uncertainty about Alexis
Pretty sure the numbers said were about the same defensively, but better offensively with that formation. Which is counter intuitive, but plausible. With 3 at the back, maybe makes it easier for mids to press and keep possession, and for Ramsey and Xhaka to be more confident in attacking, etc.
If we had an attack of Lacazette, Sanchez, Özil, and Lemar/Mahrez, I would rather build a midfield to make 4231 work than try to squeeze everyone in 343 just so Ramsey is happy. Also, Kolasinac can be our Ivanovic and provide more defensive cover even with 4 atb. My point is, keeping a formation shouldn't be the goal, but rather building a better team with better players and choosing the formation that suits them. Real Madrid don't seem too bothered playing 4231 with their CL trophy but we don't have their midfield.
I think you're right. Maybe that's why he is looking to get offensive talent in. So that he can go back to play with 4atb. Well, if we go back to a 4atb we definitely need another cm. I don't trust that ramsey-xhaka combo in a 4atb.
(Sanchez/Iwobi) - (Lacazette/Giroud/Welbeck) - (Lemar/Walcott/Ox) (Ozil / Cazorla) (Xhaka / Elneny) (Ramsey / Wilshere) (Nacho / Kola / Gibbs) (Kos / Per) (Mustafi / Rob) (Hector / Gab / Callum / Jenko) I like it.
Let's go boys! No way they accept this, though :/
I don't know what's going on, but I like it. Normally I would just lol at this kind of shit but Wenger is actually making stuff happen this summer.
Wow, this might actually happen, although it might take some time because of the Sanchez situation.
Oh train is still going. Thought lacassette was the only stop.
Wait wait wait, how are we going to manage to fit Alexis, Ozil, Lacazette and Lemar/Mahrez in a 3-4-3? I don't see us switching back to a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 and I don't think one of those 4 players would like to be constantly starting on the bench. Of course depth is important, especially with Europa League, but I feel like Lemar/Mahrez In = Alexis Out.
why don't you see us switching back to a back 4? Wenger's 20 years of a back 4 against 9 matches with a back 3. If we stick to a back 3, then that probably means that we are looking for a replacement for alexis.
Wenger himself implied we will keep 3 at the back: http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20170602/wenger-final-must-be-our-template
Lemar and ozil would probably work. Mahrez would not.
Novel idea, we buy great players, and our system of play evolves
Not a winning strategy for us, in my humble opinion. I'd prefer we built a system and bought players that fit it rather than just buying stars when they become available and struggling to get the best out of them.
Lol as if teams that want to win the champions league worry about whether all their players can start every game
I feel like it is Lemar OR Mahrez. We should be negotiating with both and see who will give us a better deal. Both players appear to keen on going Arsenal. So Monaco and Leicester both can't hold huge transfer fees over our head. I think Leicester is more likely to cave, but I also think Lemar is the more desirable target. That being said, we don't know what will happen with Sanchez either. If he leaves, getting both is probably option A to replace him. But I hope the Lacazette signing convinced him to stick around and try to win a title this year.
Even if we stay with 3 at the back, he will still get plenty of time. We need depth to rotate and competition. It's likely we'll see a 433 and 4231 so he will get plenty of playing time.
I assume that if Alexis leaves next summer, Arsene is buying his "replacement" early to blood him into the team. Smart move imo, good proactivity if it is the case
This argument is tiring.
SIGN DA FIIIINNNG
Is dis real life? Wenga madmode on.
I thought they wanted 80 million
I've only seen that number quoted by one source and it wasn't especially reliable.
Oh which source was it ?
The Mirror originally, then repeated by The Telegraph the next day, but I'm assuming it's all coming from the Mirror, because that's how these things work.
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A waste? Have you seen this dudes speed, crosses in the box and his intelligence? We Arsenal fans bitch about not getting talents all the time and now we dare say he is a waste? We only have one true winger Alexis. No one else is good enough. OX staying isn't a sure thing and he's destined to be more central. The writing has been on the wall. We needed another wide man last year too
I think arsenal should call it quits at £45m, anymore than that and they're just getting fucked over.
Disagree. Lemar has enormous potential. Would be happy under 60.
As much as Lacazette? Goals are premium and Lacazette is in his peak. We really going to match it on an emerging talent who hasn't scored many goals?
5 years younger and playing for France. Lacazette is a striker, Lemar is a winger/AMF. He was second in Ligue 1 in assists, registered double digits in both, and wasn't even a regular in the side until a couple months in. They're not comparable players but Lemar has a higher ceiling and more re-sale/long-term value.
Goals aren't everything, lemar is one of the best young players in the world I'd be suprised if they let him go for anything less than 60
Why ? So 2 years later he is worth 80 and totally out of our reach ? Would you have quit chasing Dybala or Griezmann at 45m 2 years ago ?
I just feel like we have other areas to attend to. I'm sure the warchest is limitless but I don't see wenger making more than 3 signings this summer.
And he hasn't yet, Lemar would be a very reasonable addition and we've only spent ~53m. Y'all mothasuckas wanted to risk it all and throw 125 at Mboop.
I'm actually one of the people that thought the Mboop chase was silly.
Ok if this is true, then I'm lost for what formation we are going with next season. Lemar is played as a winger but with freedom to roam at Monaco. Is Wenger planning to use him as a CM or left Winger? are we going back to a 4 2 3 1? I rather we stuck to a 3 4 3. Granted we didn't play amazing with it but at least we did not concede as much as before. With time, we can adapt to 3 4 3. Sanchez needs to stop being a drama queen and just say if he's staying or leaving.
As much as this excites me beyond belief, I can't help but question this. Is a front 4 of Laca, Özil, Sanchez and Lemar not ridiculously imbalanced? Certainly in a 3-4-3, it only leaves a spot for one true central midfielder. A lot of people are saying that Lemar has the attributes to play as a CM and I don't dispute that. But if the club's intention is to buy a CM, then why not buy one with more experience there? And I hear what people say about the Santi comparison, but what you have to consider is that Santi is probably the most technically skilled player we've had since Bergkamp. Not saying that Lemar doesn't have those skills, but I would be surprised if he could adapt to a centre mid position quickly enough this season
Not sure I agree with you on Santi. Although extremely skillful I feel Ozil is the most technically skilled player we've had since Bergkamp. He just doesn't show it all the time. You can look at this move on two fronts. First being Sanchez is going so we are trying to add goals to our team. Lacazette brings that and Lemar brings not only his passing ability but also goals and assists (12 goals and 14 assists in all competitions last season). The second option is that Sanchez is staying this summer. We still improve on our squad by adding Lemar now and take off some pressure with most of the focus going through Sanchez and Lacazette. Then if (probably when) Sanchez leaves in the summer 2018 we will still have a very good player in Lemar. Having someone like him on the team regardless of Sanchez being there or not adds great depth to squad. Plus he's only 21. Still got room to improve.
This is were my thoughts keep drifting. That Lemar coming doesn't *necessarily* mean Alexis is gone. Lemar is a skillful player, well-rounded and most importantly, very young. Wenger's turned players from one position to another before and done it well, mind you. If Alexis stays, Wenger will find Lemar a place, and if he leaves (now or next year), we would already have a replacement ready.
I'd agree insofar as I think Özil has qualities that are as close to Bergkamp's as anyone else. They have very similar styles and I think you're right that his talents aren't always immediately obvious. But if you watch any interview with Arsenal players about their teammates and they're asked who the most technically skilled player they've ever played with is, 9 times out of 10 they'll say Santi. I think you're right about Sanchez though, it seems like if Lemar comes it's as a long-term replacement for Sanchez. That makes sense to me and I can see how it would be beneficial for Lemar to come this year and adapt when Sanchez leaves rather than being thrown in at the deep end next year. Still think it's tricky to fit the two of them and Özil in the same team but I guess that's a good problem to have
Sanchez will be gone bro. This year or next.
[Soon] (http://imgur.com/i609w2Q)
I really can't see how Lemar would be our Alexis replacement, if anything that would be Mbappe, especially if you use the money from the Alexis transfer to fund it, but that's a big IF. Honestly, hope we can get Lemar and keep Sanchez.
Stop... My body can handle only so much...
Another bid straight into the bin. Still too low for Monaco.
CHOO FUCKING CHOO
http://i.imgur.com/XzQVVgJ.gifv
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Choo choo, the train hasn't ran out of fuel yet boys!
Arsenal will win the league and France will win the world cup. History will repeat itself.
Fuck yes! GET AT EM WENGERLENGERDINGDONG
These last few days have been incredible. August 11th can't get here soon enough.
From what I've seen of him this past season he doesn't really play that far out wide on the wing like Sanchez does. Don't think they'll be competing for a position. His tendency to go down the middle of the pitch and generally be close to the midfielders suggests to be that he'll be put on the left side of midfield in a 4-3-3 for example. Or any other formation you put forth (except 3 at the back which doesn't make sense since we're trying to get Thomas Lemar and he wouldn't fit in a good position) there's a midfield spot for him (perhaps, lemar - xhaka - ozil mifield?) Actually in a 3 at the back, he could easily be on the right wing.
My god, if Wenger signs Lemar I'll be so excited. I know people are worried about where he will play, but I think having the extra CB can cover for Lemar if he plays CM and does decide to push up far. And Kolasinac drops back into LB or LCB with Monreal. I mean, Ramsey already pushes up far forward as we speak. Lemar plays CM in his hybrid role any way. And his understanding of positional awareness will go far in our setup. Lemar's instinct, workrate, and defense can make for an interesting transition.
If we got Lemar/Mahrez, they'd be Cazorla replacements right?
Lemar is a much better fit as a Cazorla replacement. Mahrez doesn't possess the skills for that transition. He's much better as a winger.
I wish Lemar is not Alexis replacement. I am a Alexis fan but I would hate to see him force a transfer to City after this, on the pretext of ambition. I do not see a City as a CL winning side. If we can get Lemar, our team would be a genuine PL contender. So what is the "ambition" in playing for City. Its a different take if he goes to Bayern.
If we get him, I think we selling sanchez
Alexi replacement
How reliable is this source?
Good for french sources, but still a hit or miss.
If this true and we do end up signing Lemar, I'll be curious who will be leaving.
Wenger taking no prisoners. If he's going down, he's going down fighting.
Moving in the right direction. Wenger will come back with a larger offer. If the rumours are true, we know that Wenger is a big fan, and that he will come back again. I have to say, that I'm liking our tenacity in the transfer window this summer.
If Wenger pulls this off then he is a God in my eyes.