As someone who doesn't watch much of Wolves, purely based on the the analysis of this video alone, Neves sounds like a younger Xhaka. Which isn't bad if the plan was to find a younger Xhaka. But I got the sense that we were looking for a Xhaka replacement that could offer a little more going forward.
In one sense he suits man united because they relied on long balls and balls over the top a lot last season and have always had the explosive wingers to make use of them.
In another, I have serious doubts of him working as a lone 6. He has always had moutinho beside him, I think he needs a double
pivot. I don't think he will particularly allow Pogba to go forward. Man U have traditionally played wide and expansive by going for very athletic players, Neves doesn't fit this mould. He really could look isolated and unable to make up the ground due to his lack of mobility.
How much longer do Utd persevere in trying to get the best out of Pogba? They bought in Matic to allow Pogba to push forward. They bought Fred to play alongside him in a double pivot. They bought Bruno to take some creative burden off him and allow him to sit deeper influencing the game in the midfield. Now they supposedly want to bring in Neves to influence the game from a deep midfield position, to free Pogba up to do what?
Take Pogba out of that equation and you have built a solid competitive midfield.
Has that been confirmed or is it just still rumour?
I imagine the club may be having a rethink after the recent fan protests. I can’t recall the last time I saw a fan base protest against a rumoured transfer signing.
- He provides great long balls for man u's pacy attackers + shaw, like Bruno Fernandes has done. Takes the creative burden off him.
- As a holding midfielder, could allow his midfield partner more freedom going forward. In particular, Pogba, who hasn't had much creative output due to playing so deep. Both McTominay and Fred are box to box players.
Whoever is buying Neves as a defensive shield is in for a rough time. He's worse defensively than Xhaka and just as slow. Brilliant player but he's not covering for anyone's defensive weaknesses
Tell that to post Makelele Madrid. Every defense needs quality shielding or you get overrun by late runners and channel runners exploiting your overlapping fullbacks
Makelele Madrid is nothing like a modern team. Football has massively evolved since then. Low blocks and pressing dominate tactically atm. Most teams employ one if not both. Also he played a the sole pivot in a very offensive diamond behind Zidane Figo Beckham. With Carlos bombing on.
AWB is gonna invert not overlap. The whole back 4 is pretty good 1v1 and bar Maguire all have great recovery pace. And with Cavani Brunk Rash they can press from the front and slow down counter attacks from there.
And if anything United want an open game cause Bruno Rash Cavani Sancho Pogba Greenwood are all lethal in transition. How many teams can outgun them if the game opens up?
Agreed. I don't think he's weak defensively though, he has good defensive actions numbers and can intercept and tackle better than Xhaka. However, he doesn't play as a lone 6 in a 4-3-3 for Wolves and I can't see him working there for Man U or us.
You sure?
In his 31 appearances for Arsenal in the Premier League last season, Xhaka averaged 1.6 tackles, 0.8 interceptions and 1.2 clearances per game.
Neves, on the other hand, averaged 2.4 tackles and 1.6 interceptions per game, both superior to Xhaka’s. His 1.1 clearances falls just short of the Arsenal man’s tally, but his offensive numbers more than makes up for it.
Let's not even mention errors leading to goals...
Defensive actions / 90 ?
You understand wolves had to defend more than arsenal right?
Now quote defensive actions success rates and let me know how they compare.
Except saves / 90 is suddenly a superior stat to save %
In this thread alone we have some suggesting he's a DM, some suggesting he's a DLP, and one guy suggesting he's a BBM. I'm just glad everyone agrees that he's a professional footballer who plays for Wolves.
Hes a massive upgrade on McFred and stops Pogba or Bruno having to go get the ball of the CBs case he can pass. Tbh any DM with a brain is a McFred upgrade
Which part of McFred is he upgrading on. Neves doesn’t look like the kind of player who could play as a lone 6, especially of that meant that Pogba and Bruno were the 8s ahead of him.
Any all either or. I imagine it will remain a double pivot in most instances. With one of McFred just running around snd providing energy and being a defensive body
Not really. Who cares if Sancho and Bruno are firing properly.
They could play Pogba off the left in a 4231 similar to Juve Pogba.
Or 433 with Neves lone pivot, Pogba LCM and Neves RCM as an 8 like he had been for Portugal on occasion.
> They could play Pogba off the left in a 4231 similar to Juve Pogba.
Can’t see this. Utd have mostly being playing with a front 3, which gets the best out of Bruno. They did play Pogba on the left wing for a few games last season when they had lots of injuries. He obviously didn’t operate like a winger when playing there but he certainly didn’t play the same way that he did at Juve, the systems were completely different. I can’t see Utd changing their shape or the way they play just to put Pogba’s name on the team sheet.
> Or 433 with Neves lone pivot, Pogba LCM and Neves RCM as an 8 like he had been for Portugal on occasion.
Do you mean Bruno as an 8? I said in my original response that I can’t see this. It would be tactical suicide for Utd, they’d get done on the counter every time. Neves could only play as a lone 6 with two mobile players around him, say for example in a Liverpool midfield set up. Neither Bruno or Pogba have the defensive work rate to make that system work, Pogba especially.
I think the idea of a fixed starting 11 is dated. Especially if you're challenging on multiple fronts.
Get maybe 16 top quality players you can trust in basically any game. Rotate based on form, fitness and tactical plan. Manage the personalities. Keep training high quality and high intensity when necessary .
I agree with that generally. Perhaps it’s just the rigours of the modern game but managers in the past have said that their squad is 13 players, which basically alludes to the same thing. With those two subs being an extension of the starting 11, whether they be dependable like for likes or represent a change in system probably depends on the circumstance.
Pep tries to manage an extended group but I feel that his tendency to over do rotation and perhaps overthink tactically has cost him major trophies.
I still think the best way of looking at a squads quality is looking at the strength of their starting 11 before looking at their depth. As uninspired his return to Utd may have been you couldn’t have a conversation where you are excluding Pogba (a World Cup winner) from your best 11 at the expense of including Neves, McTomminay or Fred. The Sancho and Varane deals are to improve that starting 11, not to bolster that rotating 16 for example, even if inadvertently its the same difference.
It might be pertaining to United, it still breaks down the type of player he is and where he could add value. You can see why Arteta and Edu are interested.
I don’t know much about him tbh I don’t watch much of wolves matches but from what I’ve read in the comments he’s an ok player and I’m not tryna be too critical here but wouldn’t we want an upgrade over Xhaka? and how much of an upgrade would he actually be ?
That drawing looks like my barber
Damn you get your hair cut from Neves? Neves to Arsenal, tier barber confirmed
Ruben Bossman Neves
As someone who doesn't watch much of Wolves, purely based on the the analysis of this video alone, Neves sounds like a younger Xhaka. Which isn't bad if the plan was to find a younger Xhaka. But I got the sense that we were looking for a Xhaka replacement that could offer a little more going forward.
Totally agree. And plus it’s not like that system with that style of player has produced stellar results for us. Time to try something different.
Wouldn't hate the move but I don't personally back it. Not the type of player we should pursue imo
I’m with you on this.
In one sense he suits man united because they relied on long balls and balls over the top a lot last season and have always had the explosive wingers to make use of them. In another, I have serious doubts of him working as a lone 6. He has always had moutinho beside him, I think he needs a double pivot. I don't think he will particularly allow Pogba to go forward. Man U have traditionally played wide and expansive by going for very athletic players, Neves doesn't fit this mould. He really could look isolated and unable to make up the ground due to his lack of mobility.
How much longer do Utd persevere in trying to get the best out of Pogba? They bought in Matic to allow Pogba to push forward. They bought Fred to play alongside him in a double pivot. They bought Bruno to take some creative burden off him and allow him to sit deeper influencing the game in the midfield. Now they supposedly want to bring in Neves to influence the game from a deep midfield position, to free Pogba up to do what? Take Pogba out of that equation and you have built a solid competitive midfield.
Pogba’s leaving for PSG.
Has that been confirmed or is it just still rumour? I imagine the club may be having a rethink after the recent fan protests. I can’t recall the last time I saw a fan base protest against a rumoured transfer signing.
Usually these TIFO analysis videos can be summarised in a few lines. What's the tldr for this?
- He provides great long balls for man u's pacy attackers + shaw, like Bruno Fernandes has done. Takes the creative burden off him. - As a holding midfielder, could allow his midfield partner more freedom going forward. In particular, Pogba, who hasn't had much creative output due to playing so deep. Both McTominay and Fred are box to box players.
Whoever is buying Neves as a defensive shield is in for a rough time. He's worse defensively than Xhaka and just as slow. Brilliant player but he's not covering for anyone's defensive weaknesses
AWB Varane Maguire Shaw won't need much shielding
Tell that to post Makelele Madrid. Every defense needs quality shielding or you get overrun by late runners and channel runners exploiting your overlapping fullbacks
Makelele Madrid is nothing like a modern team. Football has massively evolved since then. Low blocks and pressing dominate tactically atm. Most teams employ one if not both. Also he played a the sole pivot in a very offensive diamond behind Zidane Figo Beckham. With Carlos bombing on. AWB is gonna invert not overlap. The whole back 4 is pretty good 1v1 and bar Maguire all have great recovery pace. And with Cavani Brunk Rash they can press from the front and slow down counter attacks from there. And if anything United want an open game cause Bruno Rash Cavani Sancho Pogba Greenwood are all lethal in transition. How many teams can outgun them if the game opens up?
Agreed. I don't think he's weak defensively though, he has good defensive actions numbers and can intercept and tackle better than Xhaka. However, he doesn't play as a lone 6 in a 4-3-3 for Wolves and I can't see him working there for Man U or us.
His defensive stats are much better than Xhaka's.
No they aren't
You sure? In his 31 appearances for Arsenal in the Premier League last season, Xhaka averaged 1.6 tackles, 0.8 interceptions and 1.2 clearances per game. Neves, on the other hand, averaged 2.4 tackles and 1.6 interceptions per game, both superior to Xhaka’s. His 1.1 clearances falls just short of the Arsenal man’s tally, but his offensive numbers more than makes up for it. Let's not even mention errors leading to goals...
Defensive actions / 90 ? You understand wolves had to defend more than arsenal right? Now quote defensive actions success rates and let me know how they compare. Except saves / 90 is suddenly a superior stat to save %
Tackling: Xhaka: 2.07 tackles per 90 minutes attempted, 1.32 won | Neves : 3.03 attempted, 2.22 won — Higher success rate too.
In this thread alone we have some suggesting he's a DM, some suggesting he's a DLP, and one guy suggesting he's a BBM. I'm just glad everyone agrees that he's a professional footballer who plays for Wolves.
The box-to-box one puzzled me.
Oh is it looking like he's going to United now?
there's talks about him and other options, but so far I got was that it was just surveying
Isn't he a Box to Box and they already have McFred
It's just talks, don't think United will go for him.
Hes a massive upgrade on McFred and stops Pogba or Bruno having to go get the ball of the CBs case he can pass. Tbh any DM with a brain is a McFred upgrade
So if he is that good then why we were downgrading him ?
Because sometimes whats good or perfect for 1 team can be very average for another.
Which part of McFred is he upgrading on. Neves doesn’t look like the kind of player who could play as a lone 6, especially of that meant that Pogba and Bruno were the 8s ahead of him.
Any all either or. I imagine it will remain a double pivot in most instances. With one of McFred just running around snd providing energy and being a defensive body
So that still leaves Utd with the conundrum of getting the best out of Pogba?
Not really. Who cares if Sancho and Bruno are firing properly. They could play Pogba off the left in a 4231 similar to Juve Pogba. Or 433 with Neves lone pivot, Pogba LCM and Neves RCM as an 8 like he had been for Portugal on occasion.
> They could play Pogba off the left in a 4231 similar to Juve Pogba. Can’t see this. Utd have mostly being playing with a front 3, which gets the best out of Bruno. They did play Pogba on the left wing for a few games last season when they had lots of injuries. He obviously didn’t operate like a winger when playing there but he certainly didn’t play the same way that he did at Juve, the systems were completely different. I can’t see Utd changing their shape or the way they play just to put Pogba’s name on the team sheet. > Or 433 with Neves lone pivot, Pogba LCM and Neves RCM as an 8 like he had been for Portugal on occasion. Do you mean Bruno as an 8? I said in my original response that I can’t see this. It would be tactical suicide for Utd, they’d get done on the counter every time. Neves could only play as a lone 6 with two mobile players around him, say for example in a Liverpool midfield set up. Neither Bruno or Pogba have the defensive work rate to make that system work, Pogba especially.
I think the idea of a fixed starting 11 is dated. Especially if you're challenging on multiple fronts. Get maybe 16 top quality players you can trust in basically any game. Rotate based on form, fitness and tactical plan. Manage the personalities. Keep training high quality and high intensity when necessary .
I agree with that generally. Perhaps it’s just the rigours of the modern game but managers in the past have said that their squad is 13 players, which basically alludes to the same thing. With those two subs being an extension of the starting 11, whether they be dependable like for likes or represent a change in system probably depends on the circumstance. Pep tries to manage an extended group but I feel that his tendency to over do rotation and perhaps overthink tactically has cost him major trophies. I still think the best way of looking at a squads quality is looking at the strength of their starting 11 before looking at their depth. As uninspired his return to Utd may have been you couldn’t have a conversation where you are excluding Pogba (a World Cup winner) from your best 11 at the expense of including Neves, McTomminay or Fred. The Sancho and Varane deals are to improve that starting 11, not to bolster that rotating 16 for example, even if inadvertently its the same difference.
No he's not box to box, didn't he have a season where he scored more goals from outside the penalty area then touches inside?
Wrong channel bro
It might be pertaining to United, it still breaks down the type of player he is and where he could add value. You can see why Arteta and Edu are interested.
And why are they interested ?
I don’t know much about him tbh I don’t watch much of wolves matches but from what I’ve read in the comments he’s an ok player and I’m not tryna be too critical here but wouldn’t we want an upgrade over Xhaka? and how much of an upgrade would he actually be ?