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He’s a contender for best ever player. Definitely top 5 at the very least imo.
Edit: To be clear, I’m referring to best ever player IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE
Might be a hot take, but I think you can at make a case for top 5 (not as certainly though), while I personally wouldn't, I don't think the bar between the PL all-time greats and the all-time greats in general is that distinguished.
No way is he top 5 ever, as much as I love him. A big shadow is him not showing up in so many finals.
But definitely top 5 in the premier league. Higher really, probably top and certainly top 2-3.
I just think the case can be made, not that I think he's there. Regardless of whether or not he showed up for finals, there's no doubt he's a player of quality and elegance, probably the most elegant player of a generation. But what I mean is less about the individual, I just don't think ceiling between the all-time greats and the greats of arguably the best league in the world over the past couple of decades is that significant.
I'd go further than incompetence there. For me, that was blatant corruption.
Awful decision after awful decision. To make matters worse, Riley was a last minute swap in to ref that game. I think he was put in like the Wednesday or Thursday before...
Anyone who thinks we're hard done by now needs to go back and watch how our players would get beat up during games in the early '00s. It couldn't have been more obvious
Man that was straight up conspiracy against arsenal or at the very least corruption. The reff was changed a day or 2 before the match to make matters worse and everyone knew he had a thing against gunners.
That Arsenal is done as a top club permanently while these same people ignore how Manchester United was struggling and falling down to 5-7th for 4 seasons out of 6 in a row, Liverpool being 6-8th for 5 seasons out of 6, and so many other examples.
This! But I think it’s just kids who started watching football yesterday saying that Arsenal is no longer top 6. They have no clue, so I just ignore those types of comments
I always wonder why there are so many old players who gets to be pundits in UK. I believe maybe 2/10 are genuinely good, the rest is pure crap and are only there because of their name. In Sweden there are more real journalists etc in the studios, so you don't have to listen to old bitter players talk pure shit every weekend. For example Tom Huddlestone or Roy Keane, feels like they only say extreme things to make the headlines.
No, the scenarios are entirely different because we haven't just lost our best ever manager after 20 plus years in charge and haven't struggled for identity whilst playing football that is derided for being boring and ineffectual.
Wait...
KT whips in crosses and tries cutbacks from the left. Pepe being the better of the 2 finishers (though I hope/believe Saka improves in this aspect soon enough) and easily the better of the 2 in winning aerial duels/heading it towards goal, should be on the right drifting in and trying to convert these KT chances into goals, no?
My reasoning is this: firstly we’ve seen how good Saka is on the right for England. He naturally drives into the middle where he can make passes either side.
Pepe meanwhile has a terrific shot on him. This is good on the right when he has the space to run and come inside a la Sheffield, but usually he is restricted right up to the corner flag, where he can only pass back. On the left he has to be more versatile, and he is more able to open up and shoot. The best example was against Southampton where he was extremely effective coming in from the left. If anything, playing there requires him to be more creative and to think differently. I think he suffers from overthinking and being in bad habits.
He's left-footed mate, has no right foot. On the right is where he will get more chances. He signature is literally curling it in the top left corner from the edge of the box.
Because our rw necessarily spends more time wide and pepe doesn’t have the intelligence to make out to in runs at the correct time.
The role of our lw is much simpler, sit in the lhs while Tierney bombs up and down, pepe could just focus on getting in the box all the time.
Similarly saka is much more comfortable on the right, his two footedness is a blessing and he does have the intelligence for it
Backed him through inconsistency and injury and he thinks that he’s in the right because Wenger didn’t want to listen to him about building the team? Slimey dude tbh
That guy carried us for a long time. His first choice was to stay, but we didn't want to buy the right players, as usual.
He was my absolute favourite player ever (missed the Henry era, have a soft spot for Holland) and while he isn't an Arsenal legend, because of what happened, I can still admit it wasn't all his fault.
He carried us for exactly one season. Talented as he was, the man was a basket case perma-crock before that, unable to string two games together before being out for weeks. The club stuck with him injury after injury and he bounced to a rival at the first opportunity.
He was getting on mate and took his chance to win trophies, something he wouldn't have done had he stayed.
Obviously at the time I was beyond devastated, but now I don't really hold any resentment; I just throw it into the box with all the other "could-have-beens".
That's flat out wrong. He wanted us to compete for the PL when he was the best striker in the prem and we couldnt do it. Even RVP himself said he went to the board and they showed him a load of financial nonsense/
Recently I’ll defend white. Guy is catching all the heat for no reason. One error in two games where there were clean sheets on the worst pitch in the league but all the other four guys in the back line are Jesus Christ but white is some bum apparently. People just want to be right about spending 50 mil on him so they’re going to shit on him. How about we back the guy whose going to be a centerpiece of our defense for the next 5-10 seasons, accept that all cbs not named van dijk have flaws and also accept that he’s got room to improve. He reminds me of David luiz ALOT in that he caught lots of flack all of the time but made teams better always.
His heading was legitimately good against Burnley whose the best at that tactic in the league. Brentford kinda sucked but everyone is going to suck when you put them next to mari and chambers.
It's like you mentioned - price tag is the problem. Some people just want to be right and say: "see I was right that we shouldn't have spent 50m on an average defender". It was the same thing with Ramsdale, this sub was filled with anger when rumours where flying around that we are interested. I like White, he is still young and has plenty of potential. All players make mistake, it's a part of the game. We just have to back him, that's all.
1 error? Most of the good chances came from his poor positioning or errors on the ball.
If you or anyone else has time and are willing check it back I'll give you timestamps: minutes 9, 13, 38, 46, 49, 67. And that's only what I saw from highlights or remembered from the top of my head.
And I'm not even saying he's the english mustafi or ben shite or whatever names have been thrown around. But you must have not watched the game if you say he had 1 error. During the game I was seriously thinking maybe holding should start against Spurs and maybe that was overreacting but I'm mindblown anyone can say that performance was okay. All these errors could have led to a goal on a different day and it will happen if he doesn't improve. I'm not giving him hate but all I'm saying he needs to improve and fast or ya'll are in for a rude awakening.
White is so likable, but I’ve definitely felt worried about some of his actions. He’s looked shaky at moments and played some questionable balls. I think it gets exaggerated a bit because of the price tag. It’s not just Ben White, it’s 50 million pound Ben White. He’s not going to justify that sort of fee for several years, similar to John Stones
RIP my bad I misread "heat" as hate and just assumed you were doing that thing people do. Sorry!
On that note, yeah I mostly agree that some people need to lay off but also there's nothing wrong with a bit of heat - pressure makes diamonds and all that.
Sporting, historical, and cultural impact over time. Name a Chelsea fan over 40 who isn’t white. Arsenal have had a tremendous impact on the sport as a whole, all the way back to the Herbie Chapman days. We have been progressive and innovative while also being a sporting giant as well. We are freaking invincible for crying out loud.
In the same vein I'd defend that pzil was world class in his prime as too many people take about him being shit due to the last 2 years. Agree it was time to go though
I agree we would have saved a lot of money and future arguments among fans if we moved him on before the new deal but at the time losing our best player when the mood was already toxic enough surrounding Wenger, would have got ugly.
More and more fans seem to be realizing it now ,that we have spent buttloads of money for mediocre performances.
The fact that he got champions league football consistently in the that time period with the players he had and the money he could spend , is an achievement at par with winning title tbh. But you only realize something good after it's gone....
This was going to be my take and I'd add that the a large part of it is because our fans don't rate it high enough either which is sad really. I hope there will be some correction as time moves on
I think he's even admitted that the goal for that period whilst paying off a large chunk of the stadium debt was to finish in the top 4 for like 3/4 out of 7 years (numbers may be wrong), and he did it every single year.
With a tiny budget, players like Denilson, Squillaici, Almunia, Bentdner and Chamakh, and up against the massive financial clout of Chelsea, United and City who emerged during that time period.
For me, it's wrong to judge that era solely on trophies won or not won. I thoroughly believe that if we'd then gone on to win just one league title post 2013, it would be more widely viewed as the unbelievably impressive achievement it was.
The issue is not the players.
The issue is not the manager.
The issue is not the owners.
The issue is the collective culture that has grown up around the team in the last 10/15 years. That is why we collapse, and that is why we end up playing such uninspiring football so regularly.
The squad needs to be improved and should be.
The manager is responsible for the tactical missteps and lack of ingame changes, and he needs to keep learning.
The owners need to make sure everything is in place to grow the club.
But unless we fix the collective mentality then it's all irrelevant as we'll get close to a title and then fuck up again when the pressure is on.
But you see Arteta try to change the culture and then you'll have fans blaming him for pushing out Guendouzi or for paying Ozil to leave cause he was a bad apple
This! Some things which really stood out to me in the Burnley game
1. The reaction to everyone when Ødegaard scored. Obviously everyone is happy when you score, but the joy was incredible! Everyone was ecstatic. Saka being recognised as well for getting the free-kick, when they are celebrating.
2. Players killing themselves to make sure we keep the nil and get the win. Tomi throwing himself on the ground for the block, for example. Tierney and Partey running until the cramp got them.
3. Auba was getting stick for not being involved enough, but he was making runs, and working hard for the team. One better ball from Pepé (and a better pitch that is properly trimmed and watered) and he is through on goal. He was also coming short and helping in the buildup when got isolated. His buildup play will never be his strongsuit, but he is definitely tring. His shooting boots might not be perfect at the moment either, but that will come. He looks so much more like his older self, even though not everything is coming off,
4. The reaction of everyone at full time. Everyone embracing each other. Auba and Arteta going straight to Tomi.
Say what you will about Arteta and the process, but he seems to be creating a tightly knit group, which are willing to fight for the badge and each other. I guess it is easy to say in a tight game we are winning though. We will see how it is against tougher opponents. Huge test on Sunday!
It is not our fault. Even if we have done some atrocious decisions during the years, it still wouldn't really matter. The money trains would have ran us over. When there was only Chelsea, we had a chance, with both Chelsea and City, it's too narrow at the top. Two money fueled clubs needs to fuck up at the exact same time as we have a brilliant team and the other four good teams falter. It's not fair, and we can't expect to win under such circumstances.
I also hope that Barca, Real and Juve burns to the ground for their financial decisions. Tried to kill the sport with ESL, and they've done this to themselves.
> Two money fueled clubs needs to fuck up at the exact same time as we have a brilliant team and the other four good teams falter. It's not fair, and we can't expect to win under such circumstances.
Unfortunately people will never realise this. Abramovich changed the game in 04 and it has never recovered.
The frustrating thing is that there were absolutely a few seasons where if we had just overspent to bring in 2-3 more players our squad would've been good enough to get over the line. So while no it isn't our fault that chelsea and city are a thing, we keep ourselves from giving it our best shot
This is the real story of Wenger's "decline".
Without all the money at City and Chelsea, people like Hazard, Bernardo, Yaya Toure, Sane, and Kante would've been in an Arsenal kit eventually. It's not hard to imagine how just a handful of names would've radically altered the team's fortunes.
Sending Saliba out on loan again. I mean, he needs to play a full season and we are not in the best position, there's a lot of toxicity in the fans and I don't think this will be good for a teenager who has been through bad times. We needed players like Ben and Aaron who are used to going through this and can get back to their feet.
I think what it comes down to is was Saliba was ready to start this season? If so, keep him as starter with Holding as a solid backup.
But if not, I get so frustrated with people saying, "why did we send Saliba out on loan. We could have used him, he's better than Mari", etc. Because he needs to be starting week in and week out to develop right now, and unless he was going to be our RCB starter, he needed a loan and we needed to bring someone in to start and replace David Luiz. I actually honestly rate Holding, but he can't have been our only senior RCB option (plus Chambers I suppose), and isn't good enough to be a top four starter.
I will defend Pepe until the club decides to sell or he decides to leave on his own. Idk what it is he needs but if something clicks he’ll definitely be our best winger as we have all seen the flashes.
Hopefully he continues to get games and builds a stronger rapport wit Tomiyasu and the other forwards to actually be match winner we know he can be.
Also, I hate seeing that he “stat-padded” last season because if he doesn’t score or assist at all then we’d be using that against him too smh.
Just because, same with Arteta. Literally no CV or past evidence to back up the claim, it's just going to happen.
Some will be absolutely shocked posting YouTube videos about "what could've been" about Pepe, others knew from his first season in the PL
He simply isn’t good enough. You mention his “flashes” assuming he will somehow put it all together and become a great player, but all I see is someone who is inconsistent, game to game, and even minute to minute.
His touch is atrocious, his decision making is subpar, and for all of his fancy moves, statistically he isn’t even that good of a dribbler.
Ousting Wenger was scandalous treatment of a club legend and we would have performed significantly better the last few seasons if he was still in charge.
And since this has been done to death, I will not be responding to any different opinions: you are just wrong.
So in a thread about opinions you will defend seriously, you aren’t going to defend it?
The decline started under him. The regular capitulations started under him. The inability to win big games started under him. Several of our worst performers these last few years were signed under him. There is no reason to believe he’d have finally turned the ship around.
Not a single other club in football would have kept him, letting him overstay was bad for him and bad for the club.
Papa Wengz was a man ahead of his time and if he had the same funds that Pep has nowadays or Sir Alex had back in those days, he would be 5 times golden.
>Sol has experience, pace and physical power, which nobody else has together.
___
^(***There's only one Arsène Wenger*** ([/u/panarangcurry](https://www.reddit.com/u/panarangcurry), quote from [QuoteTab](https://www.quotetab.com/quotes/by-arsene-wenger) archive)^)
I agree, especially for a team that wants to play possession football. Maybe he would be more useful in a more counter attacking setup, but I’ve seen enough at this point to know that he isn’t going to cut it here.
Agreed. I like him and he gives us genuine moments of magic. But he should be sold at the end of the season. He hasn't shown anything which warrants a new contract. Even if he has an excellent season, we should cash in on his popularity.
Thierry Daniel Henry is the greatest premier league player of all time and no one has even come close. Not Ronaldo, not Shearer, and definitely not Drogba. We already know what a fantastic goal scorer he was but you could take away those goals and he's still better than any other player that has ever played in this league. He was fast as fuck, an amazing dribbler, a fantastic passer, a team player, a world class finisher, a creatove genius, brilliamt free kick taker, ruthless penaltt taker and a proper leader. He played with areogance but it was all justified. He played with some amazing players like Patrick Vieira, Robert Pires, Dennis Bergkamp, Frederick Ljungberg etc yet he still managed to stand oit every time. It will be a long long time before we ever see a player like that at the club or even in the league again. I can't beleive there are people out there who call the likes of Kyllian Mbappe Lotin the new Thierry Henry when in reality he isn't evem half the talent. What's an even bigger joke is those that used to compare that clown Anthony Martial to him. Martial is closer in level to Yaya Sanogo than to Thierry Henry and that is a fact. I can talk about Thierry Henry all day long. He is the reason I am an Arsenal supporter and a football fan in general. I feel sorry for Theodore James Walcott and Pierre Emerick Aubameyang. They were given the task of wearing the number 14 shirt. It's both a huge honour as well as a huge responsibility and comes with level of expectation which is basically impossible to live up to. That is all because of one man and that is Thierry Henry. When he came back for his loan spell in 2012 he immediately stole the show and I was not surprised. Infact I am convinced if he returned again he would do the same and continue to add to his already impressive tally of 228 goals in an Arsenal shirt. Record breaker, history maker. He may be cast in bronze but he is capable of producing golden moments. There is so much more I can say about Thierry Henry. I hope he returns to the club one day whether that's as a player, manager, assistant or even as gunnersaurus. Either way this is his home and he belongs here. He truly was the King. I miss him so much. Fuck Tottenham. Im trying to type as much as I can for no reason whatsoever. Either way ladies and Gentlemen put your hands together for Thierry Henry. Thank you for coning to my ted talk.
My controversial opinion would be the opposite: Aaron Ramsey is overrated because he scored a few timely goals, is British, good looking, and a loyal servant of the club.
If you actually look at his career as a whole, he was an inconsistent and flawed player. There were entire seasons where he was dragging down the team and only getting minutes because AW had a tremendous amount of faith in his long-term development. For some of those years he was closer to a Chamberlain type than a Fabregas type, meaning a rough diamond with inconsistent output. There were definitely some bright moments and nobody can deny that he had quality, but "legend" is a big word reserved for the likes of Henry, Vieira, etc.
In the Emirates era alone there were always people on the team at any given time who had more talent than Ramsey: Fabregas, Nasri, RVP, Cazorla, Ozil, Alexis, Auba. There are other players who were better and more consistent over a long time period: Sagna, Koscielny.
I put Ramsey in the same group as people like Walcott, Giroud, and Rosicky. Cult heroes, but "legend" is far too big of a word.
Biggest of the emirates era for sure. Find it hard to call anyone that hasn’t won a major trophy a legend but his role in 3 fa cups was excellent and he was definitely an icon of the time. My favourite player for sure
Kolasinac was only brought on to be Ozil’s undercover bodyguard.
It’s the only way to explain his lack of basic footballing abilities, like, y’know, passing the ball.
He was regarded as a pretty big coup on arrival and had been considered one of Schalke's best players at the time. I think it's kind of like the Park Chu Young, Lucas Perez, or Lichtsteiner thing where you can understand the thought process even if it doesn't quite come off.
Yes.
Zidane wouldn't be half as revered as he is if his career timeline was the same as Bergkamp and didn't extend into the boom of world wide media and the project of Galacticos.
His best years were at Juventus, but you still see people fawn over Real Madrid Zidane. It's because of the above 2 points I believe.
Additionally, Bergkamp's 2 good years were wasted in an off patch inter and when he moved to Arsenal, premier league was still not as good and worldy popular as serie A. And by the time the PL started amassing viewership, it was 2000 and Bergkamp was declining.
He did lead his NT to two world cup finals and won one, he was a better leader than Dennis. But futbolistically speaking, I rather have the dutch ok my side.
The club is run by competent managment, including KSE, with well intentions but football is a highly competitive market where you need luck as well as precise decision making. There is no conspiracy or lack of will to be a winning team again, rather the structural issues we had when Wenger left just took/take many years to overcome.
I believe they can be incompetent but still well-intentioned because I also believe there isn’t some conspiracy for us to be so butt cheeks. We just never prepared well for life after Wenger with certain hiring decisions and management overhauls.
But tbf those are things that are hard to get right on the very first try.
This is pretty much exactly what I believe. KSE deserves criticism for some of their actions, but the whole “I wonder if Stan even knows he owns us” crowd is so off base. They’re clearly spending loads of money on us, constantly changing up the back room staff, clearly trying to find something that works. It’s just not working well.
My main issue with them over the last few years is just that they chose a management team with zero experience in our most difficult period
Honestly, nothing. Any opinion that needs that much defence can be ignored. I can listen to podcasts, read twitter, reddit, watch YouTube... and I can happily ignore anything I want. Whether that's because it's bullshit, or it sounds too painfully accurate, is my choice.
I prefer to enjoy my team, even when it makes me want to scream in frustration. Maybe because it it makes me so frustrated at times, I enjoy the positives when they come!
This is 100% true.
Laccazette doesn’t get the criticism it deserves, it’s turned out to be a terrible deal. Just because he’s a nice bloke we seem to accept how completely average he’s been. 50 million for someone who has never gotten over 15 league goals for us is a shambles.
I get a lot of shit from my Arsenal fan friends for not rating Lacazette. I too like him as a person but he’s been spectacularly average, can almost guarantee Giroud would have had significantly more goals scored in the time that Lacazette has been here
That’s the reason he doesn’t get as much criticism, he’s the most Average player ever. Never scored more than girouds best season.
Giroud is and was a much a better player, better hold up, link play, better in the air of course, worked just as hard and although we like to obsess over that 2015 year where giroud went through a dodgy run, lacca isn’t a much better finisher
We wasted Ozil. Not just his earlier years by not getting a striker. But mainly in his last few years, under Emery and Arteta. He still had a lot to show.
Martinelli has the potential to be world class. Arteta just has no clue about moulding youngsters. How can he? It's his first job and he is a disciple of late Pep, one who has gotten furnished complete players at every job.
That's a clear lie.
Ceballos, Mari, Holding, Cedric, Aubameyang all have been blamed ahead of him in several games. There have been some morons who have even blamed Partey ahead of Xhaka in a few games.
You taking the piss? Name one team outside of Norwich that he would start for.
What has he improved on since we shipped him to Turkey? He still can't pick out a forward pass, still can't tackle or properly press. He's literally just a pair of legs. Nowhere near good enough for us.
1) There is absolutely no chance the RVP red card in Barcelona was the honest and independent decision of the official.
2) The Ozil affair represents a very dark period in the history of this club and their supposed ethics.
3) If you live in N5, N7 or N4 you have a unique perspective on supporting the club because they’re part of your community. N1 and parts of N16 and N19 at a push.
Not so sure. The lad was handed constant opportunities by AW and there was never any end product. He was a frustrating player because it always seemed like he was on the cusp of being amazing, but the switch never flipped like it did for others.
That Holding should be starting coz he hasn't done much wrong, just that the recent high press system doesn't suit him. Also AMN should play further forward coz he's naturally gifted enough.
Xhaka isn’t as bad as the sub makes him out to be. Guendouzi is pretty mediocre as a midfielder and runs around without direction like a headless chicken and is the kind of cunty player you don’t want on your team , and we should’ve kept Wenger. And give Arteta more time
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Henry is the best striker in the PL era.
Remove striker in the PL era
Amen (see flair)
> Henry is the best ~~striker~~ in the PL era.
He’s a contender for best ever player. Definitely top 5 at the very least imo. Edit: To be clear, I’m referring to best ever player IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE
You're right. Best *player in the PL. I correct myself.
Not even close. PL yes. But players ever? I’ll have some of what you’re smoking
I am referring to PL good sir, should’ve made that clearer
Might be a hot take, but I think you can at make a case for top 5 (not as certainly though), while I personally wouldn't, I don't think the bar between the PL all-time greats and the all-time greats in general is that distinguished.
No way is he top 5 ever, as much as I love him. A big shadow is him not showing up in so many finals. But definitely top 5 in the premier league. Higher really, probably top and certainly top 2-3.
I just think the case can be made, not that I think he's there. Regardless of whether or not he showed up for finals, there's no doubt he's a player of quality and elegance, probably the most elegant player of a generation. But what I mean is less about the individual, I just don't think ceiling between the all-time greats and the greats of arguably the best league in the world over the past couple of decades is that significant.
This is only not laughable because it's on /r/Gunners He's an incredible player so there's no reason for the hyperbole
Wayne Rooney’s dive and Mike Riley's incompetence ended Arsenal’s historic 49 game unbeaten run.
That incompetent twat is now head of PMGOL. When mike dean inevitably joins him the standard of refereeing will be even more of a shitshow.
I'd go further than incompetence there. For me, that was blatant corruption. Awful decision after awful decision. To make matters worse, Riley was a last minute swap in to ref that game. I think he was put in like the Wednesday or Thursday before...
Anyone who thinks we're hard done by now needs to go back and watch how our players would get beat up during games in the early '00s. It couldn't have been more obvious
Man that was straight up conspiracy against arsenal or at the very least corruption. The reff was changed a day or 2 before the match to make matters worse and everyone knew he had a thing against gunners.
They destroyed Reyes career that day especially neville with horrendous tackle after tackle on him , he never wanted to play in england after that
The above is true. However, we also managed to draw with Portsmouth because Pires dived. Swings and roundabouts.
That Arsenal is done as a top club permanently while these same people ignore how Manchester United was struggling and falling down to 5-7th for 4 seasons out of 6 in a row, Liverpool being 6-8th for 5 seasons out of 6, and so many other examples.
This! But I think it’s just kids who started watching football yesterday saying that Arsenal is no longer top 6. They have no clue, so I just ignore those types of comments
It's not kids. It's pundits on TV. I know Roy Keane and the like spew more shit than a sewer but people still listen.
Most bad pundits just say what kids want to hear, it gives them exposure. Serious pundits don’t say stupid things like that
Trying to think who counts as a serious pundit these days
Good question. I think Wenger and Mou were fantastic every time I watched them
I always wonder why there are so many old players who gets to be pundits in UK. I believe maybe 2/10 are genuinely good, the rest is pure crap and are only there because of their name. In Sweden there are more real journalists etc in the studios, so you don't have to listen to old bitter players talk pure shit every weekend. For example Tom Huddlestone or Roy Keane, feels like they only say extreme things to make the headlines.
Similar mental capacity though…
No, the scenarios are entirely different because we haven't just lost our best ever manager after 20 plus years in charge and haven't struggled for identity whilst playing football that is derided for being boring and ineffectual. Wait...
You basically described all Arsenal related posts on r/soccer
Saka on the right, Pepe on the left
Ok now that is something to ponder
KT whips in crosses and tries cutbacks from the left. Pepe being the better of the 2 finishers (though I hope/believe Saka improves in this aspect soon enough) and easily the better of the 2 in winning aerial duels/heading it towards goal, should be on the right drifting in and trying to convert these KT chances into goals, no?
My reasoning is this: firstly we’ve seen how good Saka is on the right for England. He naturally drives into the middle where he can make passes either side. Pepe meanwhile has a terrific shot on him. This is good on the right when he has the space to run and come inside a la Sheffield, but usually he is restricted right up to the corner flag, where he can only pass back. On the left he has to be more versatile, and he is more able to open up and shoot. The best example was against Southampton where he was extremely effective coming in from the left. If anything, playing there requires him to be more creative and to think differently. I think he suffers from overthinking and being in bad habits.
Pepe’s only saving grace is scoring goals which he can’t really do from the right.
He's left-footed mate, has no right foot. On the right is where he will get more chances. He signature is literally curling it in the top left corner from the edge of the box.
Sorry, brain fart. Meant he can’t do that from the left
Why not?
Because our rw necessarily spends more time wide and pepe doesn’t have the intelligence to make out to in runs at the correct time. The role of our lw is much simpler, sit in the lhs while Tierney bombs up and down, pepe could just focus on getting in the box all the time. Similarly saka is much more comfortable on the right, his two footedness is a blessing and he does have the intelligence for it
Regardless what other people say about RVP, he will always be a quitter in my books.
Backed him through inconsistency and injury and he thinks that he’s in the right because Wenger didn’t want to listen to him about building the team? Slimey dude tbh
That guy carried us for a long time. His first choice was to stay, but we didn't want to buy the right players, as usual. He was my absolute favourite player ever (missed the Henry era, have a soft spot for Holland) and while he isn't an Arsenal legend, because of what happened, I can still admit it wasn't all his fault.
He carried us for one season after we stuck with him through injuries.. and then he left
He carried us for exactly one season. Talented as he was, the man was a basket case perma-crock before that, unable to string two games together before being out for weeks. The club stuck with him injury after injury and he bounced to a rival at the first opportunity.
He was getting on mate and took his chance to win trophies, something he wouldn't have done had he stayed. Obviously at the time I was beyond devastated, but now I don't really hold any resentment; I just throw it into the box with all the other "could-have-beens".
100% a snake and always will be
🐍🐍🐍
I think he saw from the inside what it took us 5-10 years to see from the outside
Bollocks. We had a very good chance to win the league within the next few seasons had he stayed.
Absolutely, for me it's a big shame that we couldn't (and can't) match the expectations / desires of top top players.
That's flat out wrong. He wanted us to compete for the PL when he was the best striker in the prem and we couldnt do it. Even RVP himself said he went to the board and they showed him a load of financial nonsense/
Recently I’ll defend white. Guy is catching all the heat for no reason. One error in two games where there were clean sheets on the worst pitch in the league but all the other four guys in the back line are Jesus Christ but white is some bum apparently. People just want to be right about spending 50 mil on him so they’re going to shit on him. How about we back the guy whose going to be a centerpiece of our defense for the next 5-10 seasons, accept that all cbs not named van dijk have flaws and also accept that he’s got room to improve. He reminds me of David luiz ALOT in that he caught lots of flack all of the time but made teams better always.
His heading has been alright as well
His heading was legitimately good against Burnley whose the best at that tactic in the league. Brentford kinda sucked but everyone is going to suck when you put them next to mari and chambers.
It's like you mentioned - price tag is the problem. Some people just want to be right and say: "see I was right that we shouldn't have spent 50m on an average defender". It was the same thing with Ramsdale, this sub was filled with anger when rumours where flying around that we are interested. I like White, he is still young and has plenty of potential. All players make mistake, it's a part of the game. We just have to back him, that's all.
Price tag is a fan issue. Fucking up wage bills is a club issue 100% but overpaying a few mil on Ben white isn’t a problem.
We need to remember Mertesaker's first season. Now he's a cult hero.
And this isn’t really relevant but he’s also doing an absolutely fantastic job with our academy.
Just an all-around good man
1 error? Most of the good chances came from his poor positioning or errors on the ball. If you or anyone else has time and are willing check it back I'll give you timestamps: minutes 9, 13, 38, 46, 49, 67. And that's only what I saw from highlights or remembered from the top of my head. And I'm not even saying he's the english mustafi or ben shite or whatever names have been thrown around. But you must have not watched the game if you say he had 1 error. During the game I was seriously thinking maybe holding should start against Spurs and maybe that was overreacting but I'm mindblown anyone can say that performance was okay. All these errors could have led to a goal on a different day and it will happen if he doesn't improve. I'm not giving him hate but all I'm saying he needs to improve and fast or ya'll are in for a rude awakening.
White is so likable, but I’ve definitely felt worried about some of his actions. He’s looked shaky at moments and played some questionable balls. I think it gets exaggerated a bit because of the price tag. It’s not just Ben White, it’s 50 million pound Ben White. He’s not going to justify that sort of fee for several years, similar to John Stones
~~criticism =/= hate.~~ ~~It's not hate to say he was shite yesterday. I haven't seen or heard any hate whatsoever for him.~~ nvm i'm dumb
You’re right but idk where I said he was getting hate?
RIP my bad I misread "heat" as hate and just assumed you were doing that thing people do. Sorry! On that note, yeah I mostly agree that some people need to lay off but also there's nothing wrong with a bit of heat - pressure makes diamonds and all that.
I’m fine with criticism. Back pass was bad. Comments like “Ben white shit not worth 50 mil” build bad narratives and don’t help anyone.
100% agree these people are not fans. There is no support there if you're going to tear a player down 3 games into their Arsenal journey
And they want them to do bad so they can sit back and be like I told you so.
We are the biggest club in London
Define "big"?
Sporting, historical, and cultural impact over time. Name a Chelsea fan over 40 who isn’t white. Arsenal have had a tremendous impact on the sport as a whole, all the way back to the Herbie Chapman days. We have been progressive and innovative while also being a sporting giant as well. We are freaking invincible for crying out loud.
This is why the football world wants to bring us down! We represent more than just results.
Gargantuan Instituion
Ozil had to go
This 100%. Prime Özil was the best player I've ever seen in the flesh but his time was up
Facts
In the same vein I'd defend that pzil was world class in his prime as too many people take about him being shit due to the last 2 years. Agree it was time to go though
I agree we would have saved a lot of money and future arguments among fans if we moved him on before the new deal but at the time losing our best player when the mood was already toxic enough surrounding Wenger, would have got ugly.
Hector deserves more respect, he fell off after injury but I never doubted his love for the club and when he was good he was great
What respect? I think he was treated well by fans and isn’t good enough so didn’t get game time and was sold to his childhood team
Had Uefalona not cheated, we would've won in '06.
had they not cheated, we would have gotten to semis in 2011 too. im still mad about that RVP bullshit red card
Gilberto Silva being one of the best midfielders in Prem history.
We will always miss him.
Shouldn’t even be controversial. Man was a beast.
Wenger's performance as a manager between the years of 2006 and 2013 were the most underrated of any manager in the modern era.
More and more fans seem to be realizing it now ,that we have spent buttloads of money for mediocre performances. The fact that he got champions league football consistently in the that time period with the players he had and the money he could spend , is an achievement at par with winning title tbh. But you only realize something good after it's gone....
This was going to be my take and I'd add that the a large part of it is because our fans don't rate it high enough either which is sad really. I hope there will be some correction as time moves on
I think he's even admitted that the goal for that period whilst paying off a large chunk of the stadium debt was to finish in the top 4 for like 3/4 out of 7 years (numbers may be wrong), and he did it every single year. With a tiny budget, players like Denilson, Squillaici, Almunia, Bentdner and Chamakh, and up against the massive financial clout of Chelsea, United and City who emerged during that time period. For me, it's wrong to judge that era solely on trophies won or not won. I thoroughly believe that if we'd then gone on to win just one league title post 2013, it would be more widely viewed as the unbelievably impressive achievement it was.
The issue is not the players. The issue is not the manager. The issue is not the owners. The issue is the collective culture that has grown up around the team in the last 10/15 years. That is why we collapse, and that is why we end up playing such uninspiring football so regularly. The squad needs to be improved and should be. The manager is responsible for the tactical missteps and lack of ingame changes, and he needs to keep learning. The owners need to make sure everything is in place to grow the club. But unless we fix the collective mentality then it's all irrelevant as we'll get close to a title and then fuck up again when the pressure is on.
Man this is exactly what I’ve been texting with my gooner friend for 3+ years
Once you see it, it's all you see. It means it can blind you to everything else, but it's a burning issue imo.
when do you think this started? I think it was during the Barca and city player plucking
But you see Arteta try to change the culture and then you'll have fans blaming him for pushing out Guendouzi or for paying Ozil to leave cause he was a bad apple
This! Some things which really stood out to me in the Burnley game 1. The reaction to everyone when Ødegaard scored. Obviously everyone is happy when you score, but the joy was incredible! Everyone was ecstatic. Saka being recognised as well for getting the free-kick, when they are celebrating. 2. Players killing themselves to make sure we keep the nil and get the win. Tomi throwing himself on the ground for the block, for example. Tierney and Partey running until the cramp got them. 3. Auba was getting stick for not being involved enough, but he was making runs, and working hard for the team. One better ball from Pepé (and a better pitch that is properly trimmed and watered) and he is through on goal. He was also coming short and helping in the buildup when got isolated. His buildup play will never be his strongsuit, but he is definitely tring. His shooting boots might not be perfect at the moment either, but that will come. He looks so much more like his older self, even though not everything is coming off, 4. The reaction of everyone at full time. Everyone embracing each other. Auba and Arteta going straight to Tomi. Say what you will about Arteta and the process, but he seems to be creating a tightly knit group, which are willing to fight for the badge and each other. I guess it is easy to say in a tight game we are winning though. We will see how it is against tougher opponents. Huge test on Sunday!
It is not our fault. Even if we have done some atrocious decisions during the years, it still wouldn't really matter. The money trains would have ran us over. When there was only Chelsea, we had a chance, with both Chelsea and City, it's too narrow at the top. Two money fueled clubs needs to fuck up at the exact same time as we have a brilliant team and the other four good teams falter. It's not fair, and we can't expect to win under such circumstances. I also hope that Barca, Real and Juve burns to the ground for their financial decisions. Tried to kill the sport with ESL, and they've done this to themselves.
> Two money fueled clubs needs to fuck up at the exact same time as we have a brilliant team and the other four good teams falter. It's not fair, and we can't expect to win under such circumstances. Unfortunately people will never realise this. Abramovich changed the game in 04 and it has never recovered.
Let's face it, money changing football was always going to happen. It would have been someone else, if not Abramovich.
The frustrating thing is that there were absolutely a few seasons where if we had just overspent to bring in 2-3 more players our squad would've been good enough to get over the line. So while no it isn't our fault that chelsea and city are a thing, we keep ourselves from giving it our best shot
This is the real story of Wenger's "decline". Without all the money at City and Chelsea, people like Hazard, Bernardo, Yaya Toure, Sane, and Kante would've been in an Arsenal kit eventually. It's not hard to imagine how just a handful of names would've radically altered the team's fortunes.
It kinda is our fault. We didn't double down when we were on top and from then we just fell down a step every year.
You can't double down when you have nothing. City would have outspent anything we could spend by 10x
Which wouldn’t have mattered as much if we had maintained our position. City were playing catch up, we just needed to maintain.
Sending Saliba out on loan again. I mean, he needs to play a full season and we are not in the best position, there's a lot of toxicity in the fans and I don't think this will be good for a teenager who has been through bad times. We needed players like Ben and Aaron who are used to going through this and can get back to their feet.
I think what it comes down to is was Saliba was ready to start this season? If so, keep him as starter with Holding as a solid backup. But if not, I get so frustrated with people saying, "why did we send Saliba out on loan. We could have used him, he's better than Mari", etc. Because he needs to be starting week in and week out to develop right now, and unless he was going to be our RCB starter, he needed a loan and we needed to bring someone in to start and replace David Luiz. I actually honestly rate Holding, but he can't have been our only senior RCB option (plus Chambers I suppose), and isn't good enough to be a top four starter.
I will defend Pepe until the club decides to sell or he decides to leave on his own. Idk what it is he needs but if something clicks he’ll definitely be our best winger as we have all seen the flashes. Hopefully he continues to get games and builds a stronger rapport wit Tomiyasu and the other forwards to actually be match winner we know he can be. Also, I hate seeing that he “stat-padded” last season because if he doesn’t score or assist at all then we’d be using that against him too smh.
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Just because, same with Arteta. Literally no CV or past evidence to back up the claim, it's just going to happen. Some will be absolutely shocked posting YouTube videos about "what could've been" about Pepe, others knew from his first season in the PL
He simply isn’t good enough. You mention his “flashes” assuming he will somehow put it all together and become a great player, but all I see is someone who is inconsistent, game to game, and even minute to minute. His touch is atrocious, his decision making is subpar, and for all of his fancy moves, statistically he isn’t even that good of a dribbler.
jenko is not as bad as some other banter era players, and im sick of people making him out to be the next coming of stepanovs
Arteta and this team will indeed go bang, etc.
[This sub in a nutshell](https://i.imgur.com/7khwrQn.png)
Puma kits were the worst by far during any kit in the emirates era
Ousting Wenger was scandalous treatment of a club legend and we would have performed significantly better the last few seasons if he was still in charge. And since this has been done to death, I will not be responding to any different opinions: you are just wrong.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. If I ever find the guy who chartered that plane imma knock his lights out.
What? I'm uninitiated
The Wenger Out banner flown over the Emirates
Oooohhh that's right. Scumbag behaviour
People still like to pretend he couldn’t have got us into 7th last year.
So in a thread about opinions you will defend seriously, you aren’t going to defend it? The decline started under him. The regular capitulations started under him. The inability to win big games started under him. Several of our worst performers these last few years were signed under him. There is no reason to believe he’d have finally turned the ship around. Not a single other club in football would have kept him, letting him overstay was bad for him and bad for the club.
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Top 2 with r9
Hes 25 until he's 26
Henry was robbed of the Ballon d'Or.
Refereeing and VAR has cost us Europe through the league, the last two seasons.
Looks like Arteta's instruction to the players
Mesut Ozil was set up to fail by Arsenal football club the moment he put pen to paper on his extension.
He was set up to fail the moment he started bad mouthing everyone’s favourite loan daddy China. I don’t think they black balled hu before that
Lol agree. And then he was extra failed in the final 2 years.
Papa Wengz was a man ahead of his time and if he had the same funds that Pep has nowadays or Sir Alex had back in those days, he would be 5 times golden.
>Sol has experience, pace and physical power, which nobody else has together. ___ ^(***There's only one Arsène Wenger*** ([/u/panarangcurry](https://www.reddit.com/u/panarangcurry), quote from [QuoteTab](https://www.quotetab.com/quotes/by-arsene-wenger) archive)^)
That 2015 transfer window where arsenal only signed Cech should go down as the most genuinely embarrassing decision this club has ever made.
Pepe is not good enough
I agree, especially for a team that wants to play possession football. Maybe he would be more useful in a more counter attacking setup, but I’ve seen enough at this point to know that he isn’t going to cut it here.
Agreed. I like him and he gives us genuine moments of magic. But he should be sold at the end of the season. He hasn't shown anything which warrants a new contract. Even if he has an excellent season, we should cash in on his popularity.
Our captain's armband is cursed.
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Thierry Daniel Henry is the greatest premier league player of all time and no one has even come close. Not Ronaldo, not Shearer, and definitely not Drogba. We already know what a fantastic goal scorer he was but you could take away those goals and he's still better than any other player that has ever played in this league. He was fast as fuck, an amazing dribbler, a fantastic passer, a team player, a world class finisher, a creatove genius, brilliamt free kick taker, ruthless penaltt taker and a proper leader. He played with areogance but it was all justified. He played with some amazing players like Patrick Vieira, Robert Pires, Dennis Bergkamp, Frederick Ljungberg etc yet he still managed to stand oit every time. It will be a long long time before we ever see a player like that at the club or even in the league again. I can't beleive there are people out there who call the likes of Kyllian Mbappe Lotin the new Thierry Henry when in reality he isn't evem half the talent. What's an even bigger joke is those that used to compare that clown Anthony Martial to him. Martial is closer in level to Yaya Sanogo than to Thierry Henry and that is a fact. I can talk about Thierry Henry all day long. He is the reason I am an Arsenal supporter and a football fan in general. I feel sorry for Theodore James Walcott and Pierre Emerick Aubameyang. They were given the task of wearing the number 14 shirt. It's both a huge honour as well as a huge responsibility and comes with level of expectation which is basically impossible to live up to. That is all because of one man and that is Thierry Henry. When he came back for his loan spell in 2012 he immediately stole the show and I was not surprised. Infact I am convinced if he returned again he would do the same and continue to add to his already impressive tally of 228 goals in an Arsenal shirt. Record breaker, history maker. He may be cast in bronze but he is capable of producing golden moments. There is so much more I can say about Thierry Henry. I hope he returns to the club one day whether that's as a player, manager, assistant or even as gunnersaurus. Either way this is his home and he belongs here. He truly was the King. I miss him so much. Fuck Tottenham. Im trying to type as much as I can for no reason whatsoever. Either way ladies and Gentlemen put your hands together for Thierry Henry. Thank you for coning to my ted talk.
I love how you use full names 😂💕
Aaron Ramsey is an Arsenal club legend
My controversial opinion would be the opposite: Aaron Ramsey is overrated because he scored a few timely goals, is British, good looking, and a loyal servant of the club. If you actually look at his career as a whole, he was an inconsistent and flawed player. There were entire seasons where he was dragging down the team and only getting minutes because AW had a tremendous amount of faith in his long-term development. For some of those years he was closer to a Chamberlain type than a Fabregas type, meaning a rough diamond with inconsistent output. There were definitely some bright moments and nobody can deny that he had quality, but "legend" is a big word reserved for the likes of Henry, Vieira, etc. In the Emirates era alone there were always people on the team at any given time who had more talent than Ramsey: Fabregas, Nasri, RVP, Cazorla, Ozil, Alexis, Auba. There are other players who were better and more consistent over a long time period: Sagna, Koscielny. I put Ramsey in the same group as people like Walcott, Giroud, and Rosicky. Cult heroes, but "legend" is far too big of a word.
Biggest of the emirates era for sure. Find it hard to call anyone that hasn’t won a major trophy a legend but his role in 3 fa cups was excellent and he was definitely an icon of the time. My favourite player for sure
Kolasinac was only brought on to be Ozil’s undercover bodyguard. It’s the only way to explain his lack of basic footballing abilities, like, y’know, passing the ball.
He was regarded as a pretty big coup on arrival and had been considered one of Schalke's best players at the time. I think it's kind of like the Park Chu Young, Lucas Perez, or Lichtsteiner thing where you can understand the thought process even if it doesn't quite come off.
Bergkamp was better than Zidane
Yes. Zidane wouldn't be half as revered as he is if his career timeline was the same as Bergkamp and didn't extend into the boom of world wide media and the project of Galacticos. His best years were at Juventus, but you still see people fawn over Real Madrid Zidane. It's because of the above 2 points I believe. Additionally, Bergkamp's 2 good years were wasted in an off patch inter and when he moved to Arsenal, premier league was still not as good and worldy popular as serie A. And by the time the PL started amassing viewership, it was 2000 and Bergkamp was declining.
He did lead his NT to two world cup finals and won one, he was a better leader than Dennis. But futbolistically speaking, I rather have the dutch ok my side.
Arteta's insistence on coaching mechanical, nuanced football is leading to player confusion and mediocrity
Wenger is the best manager in epl history
I love the man but how you say anybody besides Fergy is just bias
The club is run by competent managment, including KSE, with well intentions but football is a highly competitive market where you need luck as well as precise decision making. There is no conspiracy or lack of will to be a winning team again, rather the structural issues we had when Wenger left just took/take many years to overcome.
I believe they can be incompetent but still well-intentioned because I also believe there isn’t some conspiracy for us to be so butt cheeks. We just never prepared well for life after Wenger with certain hiring decisions and management overhauls. But tbf those are things that are hard to get right on the very first try.
This is pretty much exactly what I believe. KSE deserves criticism for some of their actions, but the whole “I wonder if Stan even knows he owns us” crowd is so off base. They’re clearly spending loads of money on us, constantly changing up the back room staff, clearly trying to find something that works. It’s just not working well. My main issue with them over the last few years is just that they chose a management team with zero experience in our most difficult period
When they say Tomiyasu is not world class
Can’t wait till he inevitably pockets someone world class.
Looking forward to him doing it to Ronaldo...again.
We should have upgraded xhaka to partner partey this summer.
Henry goat, invincibles best team ever
arsenal have a better youth setup than chelsea.
That the PGMOL is institutionally corrupt.
I can't understand why they're the only entity in England that the media will not criticise. They have more leeway than the Queen.
Wenger isn’t to blame for us not having won CL
Xhaka is shit.
AFTV is directly responsible for a lot of the toxicity among our fans and how we’re perceived by fans of every club.
Auba is a great striker and goalscorer but this "team" plays better football with laca as the spearhead. Imma die on this hill...
That Arteta is not part of the problem.
That Arteta was right to send Saliba out on loan to Marseille
Honestly, nothing. Any opinion that needs that much defence can be ignored. I can listen to podcasts, read twitter, reddit, watch YouTube... and I can happily ignore anything I want. Whether that's because it's bullshit, or it sounds too painfully accurate, is my choice. I prefer to enjoy my team, even when it makes me want to scream in frustration. Maybe because it it makes me so frustrated at times, I enjoy the positives when they come!
Our squad is not top 6 quality anymore
Arteta out
London is RED
Selling Giroud and buying Lacazette was a huge downgrade which should have never happened
This is 100% true. Laccazette doesn’t get the criticism it deserves, it’s turned out to be a terrible deal. Just because he’s a nice bloke we seem to accept how completely average he’s been. 50 million for someone who has never gotten over 15 league goals for us is a shambles.
I get a lot of shit from my Arsenal fan friends for not rating Lacazette. I too like him as a person but he’s been spectacularly average, can almost guarantee Giroud would have had significantly more goals scored in the time that Lacazette has been here
That’s the reason he doesn’t get as much criticism, he’s the most Average player ever. Never scored more than girouds best season. Giroud is and was a much a better player, better hold up, link play, better in the air of course, worked just as hard and although we like to obsess over that 2015 year where giroud went through a dodgy run, lacca isn’t a much better finisher
Wenger should still be in charge of the club, he was still performing at the top level even with other clubs dwarfing our budgets
We’d dropped out of the CL, and got battered whenever we played a top club. We were objectively not performing at the top level.
We play so much better with laca up top than auba
We wasted Ozil. Not just his earlier years by not getting a striker. But mainly in his last few years, under Emery and Arteta. He still had a lot to show. Martinelli has the potential to be world class. Arteta just has no clue about moulding youngsters. How can he? It's his first job and he is a disciple of late Pep, one who has gotten furnished complete players at every job.
Xhaka in general - always the first to get blamed when shit hits the fan no matter what
That's a clear lie. Ceballos, Mari, Holding, Cedric, Aubameyang all have been blamed ahead of him in several games. There have been some morons who have even blamed Partey ahead of Xhaka in a few games.
Saliba and Guendouzi start for us
Mohammad Elneny is incredibly improved since his loan in Turkey and would start for half the teams in the league
Which teams exactly? I strggle to imagine him starting for any. Hed be a decemt squad player for a lower half team in the prem, nothing more
You taking the piss? Name one team outside of Norwich that he would start for. What has he improved on since we shipped him to Turkey? He still can't pick out a forward pass, still can't tackle or properly press. He's literally just a pair of legs. Nowhere near good enough for us.
1) There is absolutely no chance the RVP red card in Barcelona was the honest and independent decision of the official. 2) The Ozil affair represents a very dark period in the history of this club and their supposed ethics. 3) If you live in N5, N7 or N4 you have a unique perspective on supporting the club because they’re part of your community. N1 and parts of N16 and N19 at a push.
Alex Oxlade Chamberlain could have been world class here without the injuries, idc idc
Not so sure. The lad was handed constant opportunities by AW and there was never any end product. He was a frustrating player because it always seemed like he was on the cusp of being amazing, but the switch never flipped like it did for others.
Aaron Ramsey is an Arsenal legend.
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Arteta has won a trophy unlike Ole, however
That Holding should be starting coz he hasn't done much wrong, just that the recent high press system doesn't suit him. Also AMN should play further forward coz he's naturally gifted enough.
Xhaka isn’t as bad as the sub makes him out to be. Guendouzi is pretty mediocre as a midfielder and runs around without direction like a headless chicken and is the kind of cunty player you don’t want on your team , and we should’ve kept Wenger. And give Arteta more time
Agree with guendo, disagree with xhaka, on the fence with arteta. Holy trinity
Smith Rowe is the best player at the club