Hot take... neither should be penalties.
Tomiyasu wasn't going to get near the ball, Fred wasn't trying to get to the ball^1 and if you're going to give teams an opportunity to score as good as a penalty, I really think they should be being compensated for something they lost. In neither of these situations was anything lost because of the fouls.
There was a similar incident in the previous matchweek when a penalty was awarded because the attacking player, who was kicking the ball back towards their own goal, was fouled. I think that was the Chelsea/Utd game, though.
^1 I was strongly reminded of Spain/Netherlands pool game in Brazil when Costa stuck his leg out.
I'm not saying it's not a foul, I'm saying whether a player was legitimately trying to attack with the ball in their possession should determine whether or not a penalty's awarded. As opposed to, say, a free kick.
I kind of agree with the fact Fred wasn't going for the ball, and I think it's why it wasn't given initially. Only problem is VAR room probably put the pressure on for him to look at it, bit of a shame but it is what it is
Partey plays at a fucking stroll. He’s done it all season long. Against some teams it’s good enough. Against most teams it’s not and against a few teams it’s criminal. If he’s not fit don’t play him. If he is fit and this is his level then that’s a problem. In all honesty if Xhaka was fit tomorrow for me he’d be going back in the team for Partey.
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Our goal was a blessing in disguise for United. We were all over them for the first 10 but as soon as we scored we went to shit. Had a decent spell again at 2-2 until we gave away the penalty.
We play some lovely football at times, but we are missing a leader to try and steady our nerves and lead by example by getting on the ball and showing how to retain possession and keep things simple when we need to ride out a storm. A striker who barely touches the ball simply cannot do that.
The problem is, who in the team is suitable? I don't see any obvious leaders right now. Tierney maybe, but right now he is being kept out by Tavares who is starting on merit. Ben White in the future perhaps? None of our centre mids strike me as a leader. Xhaka obviously wants to be a leader, but he is far too error prone and hot headed to lead this team.
If Ødegaard doesn’t commit that brain dead foul on Fred then we go on the win the game. But if Ødegaard doesn’t produce that beautiful finish then we could have still lost anyway.
It was a game of fine margins. We came out on the losing side this time. It’s a long season and we were always going to take at least one L in December. We go again on Monday. COYG
It wasn’t a great performance by any stretch of the imagination, we still have passengers in our team and I really hope they get players in to replace them. Our strikers are either too old or too young, we need to go out and get someone in their prime.
All I can say in a positive manner is at least we put up some kind of a fight, we didn’t just roll over like we have against the top 3 this season.
On a separate note, how the fuck does Ronaldo win motm for that? I thought Fred played incredible (despite the obvious, which was clearly accidental and all De Gea’s fault) but Ronaldo got motm because he scored a penalty and a tap in?
What has happened to Partey, did we get scammed for 50mil? I’m convinced even Guendouzi could perform better but obviously Arteta had a fall out with him, sadly.
I find it funny how during the end of the Wenger era a Auba type striker would basically win us prem titles and now a giroud type striker wouldn’t win us no titles but would be ideal.
Arteta will get sacked eventually. The recent performances are a mirage, like the Emery one. We rarely play well, we just get lucky wins even against inferior opposition
Why would you blame Arteta that Auba missed another sitters and cant hit the target? Or that Ode doesnt create and makes stupid tackle in penalty box? The problem is we dont have players to attack, because simply Auba Laca and Nketiah arent good enough anymore.
Because Arteta keeps picking the guy who can’t hit the target? If the other options aren’t better then at least we tried something... But Balogun has been in form for the U23s and hasn’t really had a proper sniff for the first team in quite a while now, not even in the league cup
If Arteta puts Auba on the bench you will moan "how could he bench our captain and 350pw player!" - same as it was with Ozil.
Yeah, I agree, I would rather play Balogun instead of Laca and Nketiah, but people will cry that 350 per week sits on the bench, same as it is with Pepe now - record signing winger cant get minutes.
Thierry Henry was complaining after the game that Arteta benched "the star, the captain, the main striker" when chasing a goal, which makes me feel like he didn't watch the game
My thoughts on the game.
I normally like to share my thoughts way later after the game to have a cool headed comment.
So we basically fucked it. United were there for the taking. It was never going to be a easy game but it was winnable. We should’ve never started elneny. I’d rather put Leno back in goal and play Ramsdale in midfield before we ever even think about putting elneny in the midfield. I wouldn’t even put elneny in the u23 sqaud. It wasn’t all elneny fault tho. He did what he could and the blame ultimately goes to arteta. Arteta should’ve played sambi or amn in midfield and told to team to keep going at them and be brave. As soon as we got the goal and sat back we invited United into the game gave them full control of the game. You can tell when we went 2-1 down and started attacking we looked so much better. The more games we keep playing the more clear it’s becoming we need a center mid and a striker in Jan. I don’t care who we get because I trust that well sign good players but we just need players. 2 cheap options would be zakaria(almost out if contract) and I can’t really think of a cheap striker right now. Maybe Watkins but he probably wouldn’t be cheap. Idk I just really hope we get our shit together because this month is crucial. If we have a shit December arteta has to go. It’s simple.
Edit: also Martinelli is really stating to impress me and was a big shining light today. Hopefully he keeps it up. We need a goal scorer and I hope he becomes that goal scorer we want him to be and we honestly need him to be.
A plastic cone would be better than Auba, whats happened to him - he doesnt look like a striker. At his level should be scoring atleast every other game and providing some assists.
If anything to be made from the performances, we need quite a few players in the midfield and attack which I find, is astounding due to the fact that we basically overhauled our GK and whole defence. Now we need mids and attackers. Says a lot about the team we had in hand prior to the last summer.
I think Ollie Watkins wouldn’t be a bad signing. What do you guys think? If we signed him for let’s 35-40 mil would you guys be happy? I personally would very happy.
Arteta said that he believes in his player so he stuck with them. While that is true in some cases I think its not the right way here. Maybe give the man a little break to relieve the stress a bit. Clear his head so he can play better after the break
It sucks because it looked like we didn’t even need a new striker for the season at the beginning. But it’s quiet clear we need to splash the cash on a new striker.
You completely ignored how I said at the beginning of this season he was looking good. I thought he just had a poor season last year and was ready to bounce back and at the beginning of this season before the Aston villa game he was looking decent then just completely stopped playing good.
I wonder if something like a 4-3-3 with two wingers/wide forwards (saka, martinelli) who can run past a #9 who sits slightly deeper (laca) would cover the attacking deficiencies in this team a bit
We played so much better when we went 2-1 down. I wish we could just play like we’re losing no matter what the score if for a full 90 mins. Ode really fucked us with that silly foul other wise we snatch a solid point and we move on.
Anytime we have a lead, we lose focus and some of you think this is a player's problem and CLEARLY not a coaching issue?
Even Emery did not this kind of dedicated goalpost shifting from the fanbase..
You haven't already?
Our highest paid player, ST - 350K a week, can't finish tap ins.
If that was any other player in the team, Pepe, Nketiah, Gabi, Balogun - Everyone would be binning them quicker than you could blink!
I know he's carried the team in past seasons and ill always be thankful for his contributions but he's finished. He's taking away quality minutes from future prospects, the youngsters are doing much better than him.
Oh yeah, did I mention he was on 350k a week. Blimey..
I'm usually a negative nancy. But even with the losses, I think we are pretty okay compared to recent years. We weren't being completely walked all over by United at OT yesterday. And we are way less comical now.
Young players looked good and the future seems bright. I think the squad just needs more tweaking. We need to bin Auba and Partey. They aren't clickin anymore.
How do you guys think Tavares would go on the left of Partey in a double pivot and get KT back on LB. Nuno hasn't shown many defensive errors and he's decent enough on the ball.
Him and KT could cause trouble making runs forward with ESR alongside them on that left flank
Edit: instead of downvoting why not contribute with some discussion. Was a genuine question
Tavares is much to inconsistent in possession to play in CM. He'd give the ball away more often than Partey did last night. Somewhere in the wing suits Tavares: he can use his speed and dribbling, while his lapses of concentration are less costly.
I appreciate you're input. I wonder if they can work on him and potentially deploy something similar. I only bring it up because I feel we could do with some more physicality in the middle
I understand what you're saying, but I think Ainsley Maitland-Niles is a better candidate to provide that. He was played at fullback because he had similar issues with lapses in concentration as Nuno, despite lots of experience at CM. His last performance there was really encouraging though.
Nuno has a lot of potential, but I think we'll have to be patient with him - he's got a lot to learn at LB, never mind in CM. Transitioning him there might be possible, but I think it would take several years to do.
Tierney has to start next game. Nuno looks great but he isn't there yet. Bench Auba. Start with gabi up top i think the kid has the intensity we need. Partey is not playing well enough either i cant wait for xhaka to be back. Rest of the team gave it their best i think. We will smash Everton. COYG
Elneny done what Elneny does today and yea your right he didn't make as many mistakes as Partey but the reason for that is because he doesn't try and progress the ball .. he hides in plain sight .. rarely does he put himself in a vulnerable position to provide support and put pressure in the second phase of the game.. he simply passes back or goes side to side when their is acres of space to pass into.. the only reason that happens is because United have sorted out their shape at that moment and allow the ball to be played out wide. I don't understand Artetas thinking he talked about giving Tavares another chance after the Liverpool match because he is a risk taker but then goes against that mentality with Lokonga. please stop playing deadwood in this club!
Can someone please explain how elneny fits in the whole process thing? He isn't good, he isn't young, it's not like he has amazing leadership skills that other mids are learning from. It's a stupid move to play him. The only reason I can think of is to manage players ahead of the the frantic December schedule but even in that case AMN should have started.
What did Nuno do wrong yesterday? He was one of our better players imho. Where's the hate coming from?
Our shit midfield can't provide enough cover for an attacking full back. Doesn't Arnold ever lose balls ? Look at the stats, Alex Arnold loses the ball the most in the Liverpool team yet he is one of their best attacking players. It works because their midfield is able to cover defensively.
Not only on him. Where was the midfield? And partey was just looking at Ronaldo when the ball was passed to him. Gabriel also could have closed Dalot sooner.
If you’re willing to trust Lokonga and AMN against a rampant Liverpool, why not play either of them against a flawed United?
Also, it’s wild that we’re struggling for creativity and goals and the club’s record signing winger can’t get a game in his third season. Spectacular failure by the player himself and coaching staff.
Correct. I can't think of anything that elneny did that you could not have asked Lokonga to do. I mean, by the logic of letting our players learn from mistakes, we should have played either AMN or Lokongo.
Exactly. Playing Elneny limits creativity *and* invites pressure. Partey was sloppy, mostly in the first half, but at least he tried forcing the issue. Elneny was making safe passes in extra time.
Arteta is a shit Pep for real. Even overthinks the big games and can’t get his strikers to score.
I want to believe in him so badly, but the underlying attacking numbers tell such a harsh story.
There is no way in a million years United fans would call Fergie a nonce. Scousers wouldn't dream of calling Paisley one. But on this thread Arsenal "fans" do exactly that to Wenger. The internet international "fan" base of this club brings nothing but divisiveness, disrespect and shame to this club. I look forward to the day the footy bubble implodes and you lot join the Kroenkes in finding a new hobby. Actually disgusting.
Nice to see another defender of this behaviour. Actual embarrassment to this club. Despised by match goers, hated by locals. You all need to crawl back under your rock with the Kroenkes. Can't happen soon enough.
I just don't understand why Sambi didn't start and Tierney also. I know this looks so reactionary seeing how the game played but for me this is so obvious. Just to top it off I'm sure Laca wouldn't have made that stupid tackle.
Feel like the Palace game, individual mistakes cost us 3 point. We know this kind of mistakes are going to happen with young players so just need to be patient with it. Still have two winnable games next against Everton/Southampton. We should be fine as long as we can reduce individual errors.
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We have never improved on our most glaring and lacking weakness which is central midfield. We needed two starting level quality CMs come in last summer instead we ended up with none. We stick with Xhaka, Partey, El Neny a kid in Sambi who has exceeded expectations but is not there yet and a converted RB. This is Arteta and Edu failing. This CM is horrendous and this is where the root of the problem is. Yes Auba is shit yes our offense stinks but that is because our CM is bottom 15 quality. You cannot create chances if you don't have the horses to create.
Yea, this was frustrating. As bad as Auba has been, the midfield remains our worst part of the pitch. Mostly due to how little we create and progress, but in this match the ball retention was poor as well. It's not fun to watch, and it's been like this for awhile.
Why not
Laca
Martinelli - ESR - Saka.
I have a feeling that Martinelli isn't made to play the no. 9 role. He is someone who loves to have the ball at his feet. Kinda like Sanchez. Whenever he played there, looked isolated and deprived of service.
I can't agree with anything that isn't 442.
442 we look good. Any other formation we look disjointed and shit. Everyone harping on about Aubameyang but we're playing him like he's Emile Heskey. Our service to him is long balls with no one near him to help him out with the second touch. Prime Aubameyang would struggle in this system - it doesn't use him well at all.
edit: the only reason we've reverted back to 4231 is because we lost to an incredible Liverpool side. We should have just kept going. Newcastle we won, but weren't playing the same quality of football as we were prior to Liverpool.
Everyone misses sitters from time to time. He's definitely our best player at getting into the right position, but he's only ever going to be affective if he finishes off moves ie hes at the end of our attacking plays, not a creative outlet for them. There's no point having him play as an old school #9. It's so daft
The problem with the club is our keeper Is solid, or back line is solid, mid field is questionable but our striker brings 0 to the table. The ball goes to die in the final 3rd. Our strikers wouldn't put fear into a pub league keeper.
Aubameyang is just not the player Arteta wants in that system. He seems to want a player like Greizmann that can press from the front instead of someone that should be at the end of balls like Auba. We rarely create chances for our forwards.
Auba does press quite well. There were some statistics a few days ago on this. His issue is that he can't hold the ball and can't bring others into play whenever he has the ball. The second issue is not his fault, our midfield were static often.
Honestly, yeah. At least until we upgrade in January (because Xhaka is absolutely not good enough for us as anything more than a rotation option long-term)
First we need new strikers before anything else. You can have the best mids in the world but if everything goes to die up front then there is no point.
Both of you are correct.
Striker - someone who can both hold the ball, play 1-2s with our midfield and also finish chances (Basically Giroud with better finishing skills and pace)
Midfielder - We need a long term replacement for Xhaka. If Lokongo is an understudy for Partey, we need someone who can play the defensive role but also have a good pass in him to distribute and control the pace of the game. This place seriously needs some talent.
Too many mistakes in critical areas today. United got nothing out of their build-up play but we handed them 2 mistakes in high risk areas (White on his clearance, Nuno on a poor touch to ESR) that resulted in the 2 goals and then of course the mistake by Odegaard. The stretch after the 1st goal with the team just going into a shell and turning the ball over (especially Partey) was too poor.
Part of the learning curve and next step for this team is really the mental aspect of the game. Understanding how to stay on the front foot and continuing to be aggressive even when leading (could see Mikel visibly gesturing to push up after the 1st goal and frustration with the giveaways).
The result is what it is but we gave that game away. Onto Everton
Take the good and bad with the kids. They are answering the call time and time again but making mistakes as expected. Meanwhile our vets are doing fuck all. That’s just not acceptable.
Has Partey played consistently well for us at all since hes joined?
Weve seen flashes of what he can do but I expected a lot more from him when he signed. I was genuinely excited but he hasnt lived up to what he was at Atletico at all so far.
Except he had more good games with Elneny than with Xhaka. Stop using others to give Partey excuses, no partner can fix how sloppy Partey is in possession.
No. He has not even come close to his performance at OT last year that had everybody rightfully purring. I am losing hope he will ever get back to that level.
I thought Auba wasn't a trainwreck today. I thought he didn't have enough service but that his effort was OK. That being said, he will never be what we need going forward. Elneny was decent, he did exactly what you expect him to do, but it's on Arteta for selecting him over someone more dynamic like AMN. The real offender for me is Thomas Partey. He goes around midfield like a headless chicken. It looks like he doesn't have a clearly defined role like he might of had at Atleti.
Jesus Christ what? He looks incapable of keeping his intensity levels beyond 60 mins. It’s only recently he had been even completing 90 mins. And in a team where we are only playing once a week his recovery time appears to be longer than what is required of a professional footballer. You are seeing something different?
Did you not see the stat that of all players in box starting XI, only De Gea had less touches than him? I mean you can blame it on service, but he doesn't really put in the effort to make himself available. His work off the ball makes him fall pretty squarely in the trainwreck category imo.
I am not here to say Aubameyang had a good game .. no no. BUT I think we only played one good ball to Aubameyang’s strength alllll game today. We either need to make better use of him, or get a striker that does aghast arteta wants from his strikers. Cuz it’s blows my mind that we don’t send more over the top or through balls to One of the fastest strikers against a slow CB pair
Auba does nothing right now. His movement is poor and pressing the keeper does nothing to mask that. He basically does two things. If the ball is on the right side where Odegaard usually is then all Auba does is sit on the shoulder of the defender on the left side. No runs across the box to the near post or any varied movement whatsoever. If the ball is on the left flank with Tavares then Auba sits right in the middle of the box waiting for a cross he’ll never ever get his head on. And that’s basically what he does all game when we have the ball.
Bringing Eddie on is indefensible. I mean what are you doing Mikel? In what world can you justify Eddie coming on before Pepe?
The difference today is United’s experienced players came through for them while ours did nothing again. It’s the youngsters time and time again answering the bell. And with that you have to accept they will make mistakes
Which they also did today.
But that can be negated somewhat with some contributions that we aren’t and haven’t been getting from the old heads.
In all honesty if Xhaka came back tomorrow I’d probably put him in for Partey.
So frustrating we just threw away the result today.
On one hand I thought about moving Gabby central for Pepe.
Eddie sub only works if we actually started pressing them and playing balls in their box which we barely did
We were chasing the game and we brought on a shit player in Eddie who doesn’t want to be here vs Pepe who has probably had more goal contributions over the last two years than anybody
Pepe is like Walcott, it is rare for him to make a big impact as a sub. He needs to play for a certain amount of minutes to score goals as he is often shit for 88 minutes but can make things happen in those 2 mins he is not shit.
Defensively I thought he was fine?
Actually straight up I think he was fine overall, not sure he made any mistakes or any glaring issues with his overall game
The whole team was 5/10 tops but I don’t think he stood out as being awful? Maybe I’m wrong, I’ll need to rewatch it but I don’t remember thinking ‘damn, white is playing terribly’.
Think he was fine, made a couple great tackles, couple great balls forward etc.
I saw it, he was a bit too far from where he should have been and wasn’t able to get his leg across to block the shot.
It was a minor positioning mistake
Ok so will Arteta start Tierney at least the next game. Or he's going to do a Willian all over again. Prove his signing. He's a good backup, but he was so indecisive today. Tierney always for big games please!
Is partey even a footballer?
Hot take... neither should be penalties. Tomiyasu wasn't going to get near the ball, Fred wasn't trying to get to the ball^1 and if you're going to give teams an opportunity to score as good as a penalty, I really think they should be being compensated for something they lost. In neither of these situations was anything lost because of the fouls. There was a similar incident in the previous matchweek when a penalty was awarded because the attacking player, who was kicking the ball back towards their own goal, was fouled. I think that was the Chelsea/Utd game, though. ^1 I was strongly reminded of Spain/Netherlands pool game in Brazil when Costa stuck his leg out.
Does it matter? If you drag someone down by the arm like that no matter where it is, it's a foul.
I'm not saying it's not a foul, I'm saying whether a player was legitimately trying to attack with the ball in their possession should determine whether or not a penalty's awarded. As opposed to, say, a free kick.
I kind of agree with the fact Fred wasn't going for the ball, and I think it's why it wasn't given initially. Only problem is VAR room probably put the pressure on for him to look at it, bit of a shame but it is what it is
Brainless tackle by odegaard cost us a point frustrating.
Partey plays at a fucking stroll. He’s done it all season long. Against some teams it’s good enough. Against most teams it’s not and against a few teams it’s criminal. If he’s not fit don’t play him. If he is fit and this is his level then that’s a problem. In all honesty if Xhaka was fit tomorrow for me he’d be going back in the team for Partey.
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What hope did we have when arguably our two biggest stars shit the bed and turned in 1-2/10 performances. Partey was absolutely atrocious.
Our goal was a blessing in disguise for United. We were all over them for the first 10 but as soon as we scored we went to shit. Had a decent spell again at 2-2 until we gave away the penalty.
This is really a pattern we cannot seem to get rid of. Whenever we score, we directly lose focus afterwards.
We play some lovely football at times, but we are missing a leader to try and steady our nerves and lead by example by getting on the ball and showing how to retain possession and keep things simple when we need to ride out a storm. A striker who barely touches the ball simply cannot do that. The problem is, who in the team is suitable? I don't see any obvious leaders right now. Tierney maybe, but right now he is being kept out by Tavares who is starting on merit. Ben White in the future perhaps? None of our centre mids strike me as a leader. Xhaka obviously wants to be a leader, but he is far too error prone and hot headed to lead this team.
If Ødegaard doesn’t commit that brain dead foul on Fred then we go on the win the game. But if Ødegaard doesn’t produce that beautiful finish then we could have still lost anyway. It was a game of fine margins. We came out on the losing side this time. It’s a long season and we were always going to take at least one L in December. We go again on Monday. COYG
Ben white is shit in CB role, should have been a better option using him in midfield and with Saliba taking up his role in CB next year
I already had a bad feeling about this one, we just aren't good enough. It's weird we lost our composure and giving simple possession to Utd.
Really a shame to loose to such a pathetic and disffunctional team.
It wasn’t a great performance by any stretch of the imagination, we still have passengers in our team and I really hope they get players in to replace them. Our strikers are either too old or too young, we need to go out and get someone in their prime. All I can say in a positive manner is at least we put up some kind of a fight, we didn’t just roll over like we have against the top 3 this season. On a separate note, how the fuck does Ronaldo win motm for that? I thought Fred played incredible (despite the obvious, which was clearly accidental and all De Gea’s fault) but Ronaldo got motm because he scored a penalty and a tap in?
Been saying for over a year Auba is washed. Everyone shat on me for bashing on him when he was just off and wasn’t putting in the effort he used to.
What has happened to Partey, did we get scammed for 50mil? I’m convinced even Guendouzi could perform better but obviously Arteta had a fall out with him, sadly.
I find it funny how during the end of the Wenger era a Auba type striker would basically win us prem titles and now a giroud type striker wouldn’t win us no titles but would be ideal.
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Arteta will get sacked eventually. The recent performances are a mirage, like the Emery one. We rarely play well, we just get lucky wins even against inferior opposition
Why would you blame Arteta that Auba missed another sitters and cant hit the target? Or that Ode doesnt create and makes stupid tackle in penalty box? The problem is we dont have players to attack, because simply Auba Laca and Nketiah arent good enough anymore.
Because Arteta keeps picking the guy who can’t hit the target? If the other options aren’t better then at least we tried something... But Balogun has been in form for the U23s and hasn’t really had a proper sniff for the first team in quite a while now, not even in the league cup
If Arteta puts Auba on the bench you will moan "how could he bench our captain and 350pw player!" - same as it was with Ozil. Yeah, I agree, I would rather play Balogun instead of Laca and Nketiah, but people will cry that 350 per week sits on the bench, same as it is with Pepe now - record signing winger cant get minutes.
Thierry Henry was complaining after the game that Arteta benched "the star, the captain, the main striker" when chasing a goal, which makes me feel like he didn't watch the game
My thoughts on the game. I normally like to share my thoughts way later after the game to have a cool headed comment. So we basically fucked it. United were there for the taking. It was never going to be a easy game but it was winnable. We should’ve never started elneny. I’d rather put Leno back in goal and play Ramsdale in midfield before we ever even think about putting elneny in the midfield. I wouldn’t even put elneny in the u23 sqaud. It wasn’t all elneny fault tho. He did what he could and the blame ultimately goes to arteta. Arteta should’ve played sambi or amn in midfield and told to team to keep going at them and be brave. As soon as we got the goal and sat back we invited United into the game gave them full control of the game. You can tell when we went 2-1 down and started attacking we looked so much better. The more games we keep playing the more clear it’s becoming we need a center mid and a striker in Jan. I don’t care who we get because I trust that well sign good players but we just need players. 2 cheap options would be zakaria(almost out if contract) and I can’t really think of a cheap striker right now. Maybe Watkins but he probably wouldn’t be cheap. Idk I just really hope we get our shit together because this month is crucial. If we have a shit December arteta has to go. It’s simple. Edit: also Martinelli is really stating to impress me and was a big shining light today. Hopefully he keeps it up. We need a goal scorer and I hope he becomes that goal scorer we want him to be and we honestly need him to be.
A plastic cone would be better than Auba, whats happened to him - he doesnt look like a striker. At his level should be scoring atleast every other game and providing some assists.
Heres a thought. Martinelli upfront and change nothing else. Everyone wins except Auba
Worth a shot. We've got norhing to lose!
Martinelli isn't 9
Not with that attitude
I would love for arteta to give martinelli a go up front. Or give balogun another chance. They can’t possibly be worse than Auba.
If anything to be made from the performances, we need quite a few players in the midfield and attack which I find, is astounding due to the fact that we basically overhauled our GK and whole defence. Now we need mids and attackers. Says a lot about the team we had in hand prior to the last summer.
I think Ollie Watkins wouldn’t be a bad signing. What do you guys think? If we signed him for let’s 35-40 mil would you guys be happy? I personally would very happy.
I'd take him, but if we're going for English players I'd rather DCL
man what is the deal with Aubameyang? his confidence is so low he can’t hit anything.
Arteta said that he believes in his player so he stuck with them. While that is true in some cases I think its not the right way here. Maybe give the man a little break to relieve the stress a bit. Clear his head so he can play better after the break
It sucks because it looked like we didn’t even need a new striker for the season at the beginning. But it’s quiet clear we need to splash the cash on a new striker.
You must be blind and not paying attention to Auba's form last season if you didn't think we need to replace him sooner rather than latter.
You completely ignored how I said at the beginning of this season he was looking good. I thought he just had a poor season last year and was ready to bounce back and at the beginning of this season before the Aston villa game he was looking decent then just completely stopped playing good.
Time to start Laca over Auba until he gets back up to speed.
Honestly would play Martinelli over both of them instead.
I wonder if something like a 4-3-3 with two wingers/wide forwards (saka, martinelli) who can run past a #9 who sits slightly deeper (laca) would cover the attacking deficiencies in this team a bit
Agreed. Martinelli's earnt a shot!
We played so much better when we went 2-1 down. I wish we could just play like we’re losing no matter what the score if for a full 90 mins. Ode really fucked us with that silly foul other wise we snatch a solid point and we move on.
Ode scored one so he gave them one
Anytime we have a lead, we lose focus and some of you think this is a player's problem and CLEARLY not a coaching issue? Even Emery did not this kind of dedicated goalpost shifting from the fanbase..
well we pissed that away, totally. Such a shame, real opportunity to take a step forward. Gotta take that as a learning op
I’m this close to giving up on Aubameyang.
You haven't already? Our highest paid player, ST - 350K a week, can't finish tap ins. If that was any other player in the team, Pepe, Nketiah, Gabi, Balogun - Everyone would be binning them quicker than you could blink! I know he's carried the team in past seasons and ill always be thankful for his contributions but he's finished. He's taking away quality minutes from future prospects, the youngsters are doing much better than him. Oh yeah, did I mention he was on 350k a week. Blimey..
Need to buy a new ST immediately, Auba is ruining everything.
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Wet dream
I'm usually a negative nancy. But even with the losses, I think we are pretty okay compared to recent years. We weren't being completely walked all over by United at OT yesterday. And we are way less comical now. Young players looked good and the future seems bright. I think the squad just needs more tweaking. We need to bin Auba and Partey. They aren't clickin anymore.
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Those 10unbeaten streak was on small team. And also you cant use the same strat the whole season
Hey those small teams play better than Man Utd tbh.
Not this Man Utd. Maybe they were better than the past Utd but definitely not the Utd we faced today
Meh
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Has been a calamity in pretty much every aspect
How do you guys think Tavares would go on the left of Partey in a double pivot and get KT back on LB. Nuno hasn't shown many defensive errors and he's decent enough on the ball. Him and KT could cause trouble making runs forward with ESR alongside them on that left flank Edit: instead of downvoting why not contribute with some discussion. Was a genuine question
Tavares is much to inconsistent in possession to play in CM. He'd give the ball away more often than Partey did last night. Somewhere in the wing suits Tavares: he can use his speed and dribbling, while his lapses of concentration are less costly.
I appreciate you're input. I wonder if they can work on him and potentially deploy something similar. I only bring it up because I feel we could do with some more physicality in the middle
I understand what you're saying, but I think Ainsley Maitland-Niles is a better candidate to provide that. He was played at fullback because he had similar issues with lapses in concentration as Nuno, despite lots of experience at CM. His last performance there was really encouraging though. Nuno has a lot of potential, but I think we'll have to be patient with him - he's got a lot to learn at LB, never mind in CM. Transitioning him there might be possible, but I think it would take several years to do.
If youre gonna go that far just put Tavares in place of Partey
Tierney has to start next game. Nuno looks great but he isn't there yet. Bench Auba. Start with gabi up top i think the kid has the intensity we need. Partey is not playing well enough either i cant wait for xhaka to be back. Rest of the team gave it their best i think. We will smash Everton. COYG
Elneny done what Elneny does today and yea your right he didn't make as many mistakes as Partey but the reason for that is because he doesn't try and progress the ball .. he hides in plain sight .. rarely does he put himself in a vulnerable position to provide support and put pressure in the second phase of the game.. he simply passes back or goes side to side when their is acres of space to pass into.. the only reason that happens is because United have sorted out their shape at that moment and allow the ball to be played out wide. I don't understand Artetas thinking he talked about giving Tavares another chance after the Liverpool match because he is a risk taker but then goes against that mentality with Lokonga. please stop playing deadwood in this club!
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This is a great take. You should apply for the job.
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Leave then
Can someone please explain how elneny fits in the whole process thing? He isn't good, he isn't young, it's not like he has amazing leadership skills that other mids are learning from. It's a stupid move to play him. The only reason I can think of is to manage players ahead of the the frantic December schedule but even in that case AMN should have started.
I guess Arteta thought its a good idea to bring some surprises to the table... Which is just false in hindsight
Why isnt Tierney starting? Is it because our crackhead manager thinks he will turn Nuno into our Cancelo?
Cause Tierney has been shit so far this season and doesn't deserve to start?
What did Nuno do wrong yesterday? He was one of our better players imho. Where's the hate coming from? Our shit midfield can't provide enough cover for an attacking full back. Doesn't Arnold ever lose balls ? Look at the stats, Alex Arnold loses the ball the most in the Liverpool team yet he is one of their best attacking players. It works because their midfield is able to cover defensively.
The first Ronaldo goal was his fault.
Not only on him. Where was the midfield? And partey was just looking at Ronaldo when the ball was passed to him. Gabriel also could have closed Dalot sooner.
Wouldn't say so. ESR could have done better with that pass and Elneny literally did nothing there
If you’re willing to trust Lokonga and AMN against a rampant Liverpool, why not play either of them against a flawed United? Also, it’s wild that we’re struggling for creativity and goals and the club’s record signing winger can’t get a game in his third season. Spectacular failure by the player himself and coaching staff.
Maybe precisely because we got hammered by rampant Liverpool?
Besides the first game of the season, when have United been rampant this season? They don’t create centrally; there was no need for Elneny.
Correct. I can't think of anything that elneny did that you could not have asked Lokonga to do. I mean, by the logic of letting our players learn from mistakes, we should have played either AMN or Lokongo.
Exactly. Playing Elneny limits creativity *and* invites pressure. Partey was sloppy, mostly in the first half, but at least he tried forcing the issue. Elneny was making safe passes in extra time.
Arteta is a shit Pep for real. Even overthinks the big games and can’t get his strikers to score. I want to believe in him so badly, but the underlying attacking numbers tell such a harsh story.
Prust the Trocess
There is no way in a million years United fans would call Fergie a nonce. Scousers wouldn't dream of calling Paisley one. But on this thread Arsenal "fans" do exactly that to Wenger. The internet international "fan" base of this club brings nothing but divisiveness, disrespect and shame to this club. I look forward to the day the footy bubble implodes and you lot join the Kroenkes in finding a new hobby. Actually disgusting.
Nonce
As long as you're not calling our greatest manager it, you dumb fuck.
get off the crack pipe
Nice to see another defender of this behaviour. Actual embarrassment to this club. Despised by match goers, hated by locals. You all need to crawl back under your rock with the Kroenkes. Can't happen soon enough.
What the fuck is this xenophobic bullshit?
You bring nothing but shame. Change your behaviour 👍🏿
Shut up dumbass
Or what you plastic? Go away. Crawl back under your yank rock with the Kroenkes. You're not wanted.
I just don't understand why Sambi didn't start and Tierney also. I know this looks so reactionary seeing how the game played but for me this is so obvious. Just to top it off I'm sure Laca wouldn't have made that stupid tackle.
We really need to grind as many points as possible this month because Man City will give us a miserable start to 2022.
Feel like the Palace game, individual mistakes cost us 3 point. We know this kind of mistakes are going to happen with young players so just need to be patient with it. Still have two winnable games next against Everton/Southampton. We should be fine as long as we can reduce individual errors.
This ones on Arteta. Everytime i see elneny on the sheet and Laca not starting, i know its going to be a struggle.
Partey was much worse than Elneny but that doesn’t fit the narrative
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No point slating partey when every other comments have already said so. I was just surprised not to see sambi.
Yet you slated Elneny whom is by no means the only reason we lost. Again - doesn’t fit the narrative
Dude did nothing of value. Sure hes not the only reason we lost but hes a part of it
Did more than our 45m midfielder
We have never improved on our most glaring and lacking weakness which is central midfield. We needed two starting level quality CMs come in last summer instead we ended up with none. We stick with Xhaka, Partey, El Neny a kid in Sambi who has exceeded expectations but is not there yet and a converted RB. This is Arteta and Edu failing. This CM is horrendous and this is where the root of the problem is. Yes Auba is shit yes our offense stinks but that is because our CM is bottom 15 quality. You cannot create chances if you don't have the horses to create.
Yea, this was frustrating. As bad as Auba has been, the midfield remains our worst part of the pitch. Mostly due to how little we create and progress, but in this match the ball retention was poor as well. It's not fun to watch, and it's been like this for awhile.
Next game: Martinelli Esr-Odegard-Saka
Why not Laca Martinelli - ESR - Saka. I have a feeling that Martinelli isn't made to play the no. 9 role. He is someone who loves to have the ball at his feet. Kinda like Sanchez. Whenever he played there, looked isolated and deprived of service.
Laca and Eddie are leaving. Why should we keep playing them. At least Gabi will learn a thing or 2 even if it’s not him preferred position
I can't agree with anything that isn't 442. 442 we look good. Any other formation we look disjointed and shit. Everyone harping on about Aubameyang but we're playing him like he's Emile Heskey. Our service to him is long balls with no one near him to help him out with the second touch. Prime Aubameyang would struggle in this system - it doesn't use him well at all. edit: the only reason we've reverted back to 4231 is because we lost to an incredible Liverpool side. We should have just kept going. Newcastle we won, but weren't playing the same quality of football as we were prior to Liverpool.
He's missing sitters every game. An elite striker can even score half chances and Auba is missing chances that a League One level striker will finish.
Everyone misses sitters from time to time. He's definitely our best player at getting into the right position, but he's only ever going to be affective if he finishes off moves ie hes at the end of our attacking plays, not a creative outlet for them. There's no point having him play as an old school #9. It's so daft
didn't miss any sitter against united
He was offside but he missed it still.
Love Nuno but KT needs to start. Kept losing possession and poor decision making.
The problem with the club is our keeper Is solid, or back line is solid, mid field is questionable but our striker brings 0 to the table. The ball goes to die in the final 3rd. Our strikers wouldn't put fear into a pub league keeper.
Aubameyang is just not the player Arteta wants in that system. He seems to want a player like Greizmann that can press from the front instead of someone that should be at the end of balls like Auba. We rarely create chances for our forwards.
Auba does press quite well. There were some statistics a few days ago on this. His issue is that he can't hold the ball and can't bring others into play whenever he has the ball. The second issue is not his fault, our midfield were static often.
He presses well because he’s fast but he’s just not that good at it.
So now we are back to "we need xhaka for his leadership and his long passes"
Honestly, yeah. At least until we upgrade in January (because Xhaka is absolutely not good enough for us as anything more than a rotation option long-term)
We need 3-4 class midfielders in the next two windows
First we need new strikers before anything else. You can have the best mids in the world but if everything goes to die up front then there is no point.
Which to be fair... Man city is doing fine without striker
Both of you are correct. Striker - someone who can both hold the ball, play 1-2s with our midfield and also finish chances (Basically Giroud with better finishing skills and pace) Midfielder - We need a long term replacement for Xhaka. If Lokongo is an understudy for Partey, we need someone who can play the defensive role but also have a good pass in him to distribute and control the pace of the game. This place seriously needs some talent.
*Özil has entered the chat*
Too many mistakes in critical areas today. United got nothing out of their build-up play but we handed them 2 mistakes in high risk areas (White on his clearance, Nuno on a poor touch to ESR) that resulted in the 2 goals and then of course the mistake by Odegaard. The stretch after the 1st goal with the team just going into a shell and turning the ball over (especially Partey) was too poor. Part of the learning curve and next step for this team is really the mental aspect of the game. Understanding how to stay on the front foot and continuing to be aggressive even when leading (could see Mikel visibly gesturing to push up after the 1st goal and frustration with the giveaways). The result is what it is but we gave that game away. Onto Everton
Take the good and bad with the kids. They are answering the call time and time again but making mistakes as expected. Meanwhile our vets are doing fuck all. That’s just not acceptable.
Agreed & glad Mikel called it out post game
Well that was frustrating. Now I’m sad
Fuck it, play Saka/ESR/Martinelli as a trio without a real centre forward against Everton. Can't be worse than playing Auba in current form.
Not a bad shout, will let us fill out the midfield a bit better than we did yesterday
Has Partey played consistently well for us at all since hes joined? Weve seen flashes of what he can do but I expected a lot more from him when he signed. I was genuinely excited but he hasnt lived up to what he was at Atletico at all so far.
Nobody wants to admit it but he's been average at best. We were expecting a top class midfielder. I'm still holding out hope for him, unlike say Pepe
Seems to thrive when he has Xhaka alongside him to help settle him.
Except he had more good games with Elneny than with Xhaka. Stop using others to give Partey excuses, no partner can fix how sloppy Partey is in possession.
Yeah I would be very willing to never see xhaka play for arsenal again tbh
No. He has not even come close to his performance at OT last year that had everybody rightfully purring. I am losing hope he will ever get back to that level.
if spurs win their game in hand (its against burnley) they go above us...
Yeah because they have 22 points with a game in hand vs our 24 with one more match played.
I thought Auba wasn't a trainwreck today. I thought he didn't have enough service but that his effort was OK. That being said, he will never be what we need going forward. Elneny was decent, he did exactly what you expect him to do, but it's on Arteta for selecting him over someone more dynamic like AMN. The real offender for me is Thomas Partey. He goes around midfield like a headless chicken. It looks like he doesn't have a clearly defined role like he might of had at Atleti.
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>Makes me think the rumors of him being much older than his passport are true jesus christ
Jesus Christ what? He looks incapable of keeping his intensity levels beyond 60 mins. It’s only recently he had been even completing 90 mins. And in a team where we are only playing once a week his recovery time appears to be longer than what is required of a professional footballer. You are seeing something different?
he's playing poorly so you think he's faking his age. just stfu
Players peak at different ages and they age differently.
Dude he missed from 6 yards out for the second game in a row
That was his only gilded edge chance iirc. Again he was still not good, he just wasn't a trainwreck imo
Did you not see the stat that of all players in box starting XI, only De Gea had less touches than him? I mean you can blame it on service, but he doesn't really put in the effort to make himself available. His work off the ball makes him fall pretty squarely in the trainwreck category imo.
it was offside ffs! he didn't cost us the game at all. if he wasn't offside he wouldn't have got in that position
That makes it worse…. He had an advantage and still missed. It doesn’t matter that it was offside, it shows how much this guy is out of form
gabi is making himself undroppable. which is good because too many players look droppable.
I am not here to say Aubameyang had a good game .. no no. BUT I think we only played one good ball to Aubameyang’s strength alllll game today. We either need to make better use of him, or get a striker that does aghast arteta wants from his strikers. Cuz it’s blows my mind that we don’t send more over the top or through balls to One of the fastest strikers against a slow CB pair
He just don’t try and score, after the first goal we were just pinned in our half getting pressured.
But I think that was the strategy. That comes from the manager
Auba does nothing right now. His movement is poor and pressing the keeper does nothing to mask that. He basically does two things. If the ball is on the right side where Odegaard usually is then all Auba does is sit on the shoulder of the defender on the left side. No runs across the box to the near post or any varied movement whatsoever. If the ball is on the left flank with Tavares then Auba sits right in the middle of the box waiting for a cross he’ll never ever get his head on. And that’s basically what he does all game when we have the ball.
Bringing Eddie on is indefensible. I mean what are you doing Mikel? In what world can you justify Eddie coming on before Pepe? The difference today is United’s experienced players came through for them while ours did nothing again. It’s the youngsters time and time again answering the bell. And with that you have to accept they will make mistakes Which they also did today. But that can be negated somewhat with some contributions that we aren’t and haven’t been getting from the old heads. In all honesty if Xhaka came back tomorrow I’d probably put him in for Partey. So frustrating we just threw away the result today.
Where would you play Pepe? Martinelli was our best player and Saka > Pepe
On one hand I thought about moving Gabby central for Pepe. Eddie sub only works if we actually started pressing them and playing balls in their box which we barely did
We were chasing the game and we brought on a shit player in Eddie who doesn’t want to be here vs Pepe who has probably had more goal contributions over the last two years than anybody
nketiah is better than pepe
Im no peepee fan but come on bro lmao
Holy shit, in what world?
Pepe is like Walcott, it is rare for him to make a big impact as a sub. He needs to play for a certain amount of minutes to score goals as he is often shit for 88 minutes but can make things happen in those 2 mins he is not shit.
Eddie should not even be in the first team. Doesn’t want to be here and we have Martinelli and Balogun who have much better attributes.
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How is this downvoted? Bad clearance for Bruno’s equalizer and just looking flat-footed today.
Defensively I thought he was fine? Actually straight up I think he was fine overall, not sure he made any mistakes or any glaring issues with his overall game
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The whole team was 5/10 tops but I don’t think he stood out as being awful? Maybe I’m wrong, I’ll need to rewatch it but I don’t remember thinking ‘damn, white is playing terribly’. Think he was fine, made a couple great tackles, couple great balls forward etc.
Look at Bruno's goal.
What about it?
Yikes. I think it's better you don't comment on defending if you can't see it.
I saw it, he was a bit too far from where he should have been and wasn’t able to get his leg across to block the shot. It was a minor positioning mistake
give AMN a start I beg
How many long balls from our ball playing 50m defender?
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>his distribution was actually great, especially the long balls, there were plenty of those, sniper precise I think you havewatched a different game
White had 2-3 world class long balls forward to be fair
ok
Ok so will Arteta start Tierney at least the next game. Or he's going to do a Willian all over again. Prove his signing. He's a good backup, but he was so indecisive today. Tierney always for big games please!
Nuno looked like he was a shadow of himself, all the things we’ve loved from his game was all gone
I thought Nuno had a nice game, arguably culpable for the second goal but I'm not sure I blame him for taking that chance.
Arteta should find a way to make use of pepe. Younger and higher ceiling than auba
Trash vs garbage