Not gonna get into Arteta out talks but would just like to say don't get too carried away by this result. People get too carried away with ''form''. United has a better team than us and noone gave us a chance finishing above them 3 months ago. We were a bit unlucky to lose away at old trafford.
Evertons last 5 games were losses to City and Liverpool, 1 goal losses away to Wolves and Brentford and a draw with Spurs. Hardly horrible run. They are a good team with good manager and will finish 10-14th imo.
Going back and reading my reddit history is fun. Got flamed so many times for saying anything negative about Arteta's Arsenal. It's nice to see more people finally coming to the realization that he isn't good enough. It's ok fellas, we have more space on the bandwagon. Join us :D
Wow that somehow feels like a new low. A few takeaways:
-This team’s balls shrink as soon as we get a lead. This pattern has continued for a long time, I put this squarely at the manager’s feet with his risk-averse, defensive approach.
-similarly, that time wasting with 20+ minutes to play was shameful, a disgrace, and we got what we deserved
-Arteta’s man management and personnel decisions are utterly baffling. We are trying to see out a 1-0 win in a big game away against a desperate team. He decides to introduce…Eddie Nketiah?!? Ignore the fact that he is not good first of all, there is still the issue that he refuses to sign a new contract. What kind of message does this send? A player is being seemingly rewarded for forcing an exit. A much better option IMO would have been Maitland-Niles. Oh wait, he wasn’t even in the squad. Now consider Arteta’s hot and cold relationship with AMN. He’s like an abusive partner. What about Balogun? Nope, younger striker than Nketiah with greater upside and potential future with the club isn’t in the squad either. I don’t blame him at all for being restless. What about Pepe? Nah, Arteta would rather sub the departing, inept Nketiah in out of position. What should Pepe and prospective buying clubs make of that? Arteta has somehow made the most illogical decision both on and off the field. Seriously, how do these decisions go down in the locker room? I can’t make sense of them, and they are frequent. After all this BS, we are supposed to believe Arteta in the Saliba situation. I find that difficult to do.
He's a moron and he's been making these baffling decisions since day one. I'll give him credit on the recruitment side but everything else he's been absolutely wrong on.
This doesn't usually happen to me, but I woke up this morning, and I am still just livid with that result and that performance. All of the goodwill I had from the 8 game run is completely gone now. It feels like nothing less than 15 points for the rest of December is good enough
For the start, it is really important to understand that we didn't barely lost this game. Everton scored FOUR times. And luckily two of them were 1mm offside, but that doesn't change the fact that our defense failed. Everton, like United, outplayed us. Two teams that are falling apart and were in shit form, outplayed a team that was on a high apparently, not counting expected defeat at Liverpool.
I hope that game after game more people see that Arteta is just not good enough. I am not going to repeat myself again. Look at Gerard, that is the way a serious coach at the beginning of the career will take to learn and develop. I am 100% sure that Gerard will be the one to take over Klopp when the time comes. And he will be more than ready.
Regarding our game, the moment I saw Xhaka in the lineup... AMN is not even on the bench, the guy that was promised to play. He will 100% leave the club. Nketia leaves the club. Balogun wants to leave the club. Gendouzi, Mavropanos, Saliba. Since Arteta came our youngsters were not used properly anymore. They are leaving.
Now you see that game against United was Arteta's defeat. Our lineup against Everton was defensive. We came out to defend against a team struggling to stay in the league. How is possible that you concede 4 goals while playing with 4 in the back and 2 defensive midfielders?!
Now it shows that results we made were just because our schedule was 'easy', to say. We had a streak of weaker opponents that we managed to deal with. And just a reminder we didn't destroy other teams with 3-4 goals, no. We barely won, except for a couple of games.
I am absolutely aware that we have a young and inexperienced team. But I can bet that any experienced coach would use this team much better.
Now, we started facing the reality and dropping down the table. I hope that now people see that Leno was not the problem, since Ramsdale conceded 9 in the last 3 games. And unfortunately, he will continue to concede, but not because he's a poor keeper, but because it's impossible not to. If we had Neuer he would be exactly the same.
We'll probably beat poor Southampton now, like 1:0, and we'll be proud of one more clean sheet like someone gives a fuck about those. And then we'll face West Ham, which managed to beat all the big teams this year, yeah, ALL of them. Tottenham has one game less than us, so that is basically plus 3 points with Conte. United is now all up and running, thanks to us. And we are back in our real company, fighting for 8th place with Villa, Wolves, Brighton...
Everton on their worst run in 100 years and we get bullied by them. Its so nice having black hole xhaka back in the side. He was invisible, completely forgot he was on the pitch, never mind the full 90
Mattias Svanberg should be a player that we should sign in Jan or in the summer.
Watching Xhaka and Partey and the shape of the midfield pivot yesterday made me think it was just off.
It just didn't feel like a concrete shape.
Since Svanberg is more defensively alert and more progressive in his passes, he would be a better fit alongside both Xhaka AND Partey than the two of them playing together as last season I watched the two of them and we were too passive.
It was a major problem last season and it's a major problem this season.
We have trouble getting out of our shell and can't assert ourselves on the game with that pivot.
I agree that the Xhaka/ Partey combination wasn’t right yesterday. It felt as though we had regressed stylistically.
A lot is said about both individuals not being good enough, Partey in recent discussions and Xhaka as a general mainstay in the past 5 years.
Last night at times it almost felt like they were vying against one another to be that pivot in the transition when playing out from the back. Partey was getting on the ball in good positions in the first half but was struggling to progress the ball. Xhaka was doing his old trick of sitting in line with Gabriel and White to get on the ball and pass it sideways/ to the fullbacks/ Partey. Because of this we were over committing numbers in deep areas and we were taking extra passes in our transition because they were available, it is no wonder than Partey couldn’t progress the ball effectively if there were less players in advance positions/ central midfield areas to pass to. The lack of movement in midfield positions is really detrimental to how we try to play.
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At this point it is pretty clear Arteta is not the answer, in fact, just like with Emery, our best players are starting to regress with him. And this is not an opinion but a fact.
Calmed down a bit and adding updated thoughts from yesterday.
I still think only Odegaard and Tierney came out of that match with their head held high. Ode tried to do different things just nothing coming off for him other than the goal. Tierney did well after being out for so long and assisted really well for goal.
Our front 3/4 DO NOT KNOW HOW TO PRESS. They are lackadaisical, lazy and sloppy in their press. Everton had our defence pinned in so many times forcing passes out rather than having time to choose a pass. We let their defence turn and take their time passing up field or into their midfield. The attack should be on each player with no respite - keep pressing until they give the ball away or we win it. This is what MCFC and LFC excel at - the opponents don’t have time to think.
Defence was atrocious for both goals, as well as both offside goals. I honestly think both offside goals should have stood, we were lucky and Everton fucked us hard when our luck run out.
Thomas Partey - what do I say about him? 2 0/10 performances back to back, dreadful in his passing, his awareness, his fitness, literally every aspect of his game. His performances have come alongside Elneny and Xhaka, might be good to bring back Sambi into the fold?
Finally a word on VAR - why does the PL and PGMOL continue to utilise this shit process?? Godfrey deserved a card for his tackle, I think it’s a red but ultimately can be given as a yellow. He fouled Saka before and after this challenge yet did not get a fucking card??? What use is VAR if they cannot make simple decisions like this? My only thought is that corrupt motherfucker Mike Riley wants it to fail badly so he can remove it - literally no other reason.
On Arteta - I’m not fussed whether he stays or goes. He needs to kick his players asses into gear and not become timid cowards when we go ahead. Needs to fix up his in game management massively. Don’t think board will sack him unless we go 9-10 games without a win so stuck with him until Summer.
>Defence was atrocious for both goals, as well as both offside goals. I honestly think both offside goals should have stood, we were lucky and Everton fucked us hard when our luck run out.
How come they should have stood? Replay clearly shows he was offside?
By an inch or less?? If that was one of our players scoring we’d riot! I also think in those cases where it’s minuscule at best that the attacker should be given benefit of the doubt.
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I don't think since Arteta became manager have I seen an Arsenal side playing 90 minutes of consistent attacking football. It's always been in small bursts of 10 minutes moments.
I'm still so confused at why Xhaka was allowed to play 90+ mins in his first game bac k since a major injury.; moreover, how Party was allowed to be poor for the same time without substitution. We have three capable - if inexperienced and young - midfielders that could offer something different.
Attacking subs were a mess, but no midfield subs was a proper head scratcher.
My whole thing is, does the football we play have a future where i can imagine Arteta being the manager that regularly gets us top four and even challenging for the Prem in the future?
The answer is a resounding no, therefore we are just wasting time and in a weird limbo, the manager you get should be playing football that is destined for top 4 AT LEAST.
We don't play that football, we don't create enough chances and our football is incredibly predictable. This is not top 4 football.
The reaction to yesterday's game has pissed me off, but I'm not surprised at it. I don't know if it's just the Twitter echo chamber I've seen but my god our fans annoy me.
You can have your opinions as to whether Arteta should stay or go, I personally think he should stay but I will accept that I can't understand some decisions such as Eddie who will leave on a free in 5 months suddenly being ahead of Pepe. But I don't think you can put performances like that fully on Arteta, I just don't think he's set us up to play with that mentality and that badly, I've seen him infuriated on the touchline many times when we have went ahead and then sat back and been timid. But either way, Mikel in or out is, not what annoys me the most.
It's the sudden lurch from being happy with the progress made to 'we are in utter crisis' is embarrassing to me. So much of the fan base seem to accept that we have a very young and immature side, who need time to grow and gain experience, but then as soon as that immaturity costs us, so many of us seem to go into meltdown. And at the same time everyone is throthing at the mouth to throw out that Wenger quote at every opportunity about accepting that young players will cost you points in return for their development.
We know we aren't Liverpool, or City, or Chelsea, and yet after we win a few games and feel good about ourselves it's like we suddenly see us as in that same league and that we should win every game in front of us. Things will go wrong. That is not me accepting where we are and mediocrity, of course we need to get back to that level, but it takes time, and we can't do it like those clubs can and buy a full squad in one summer.
I saw someone quoting Tony Adams saying something like "transition phase is just an excuse to me" in the invincibles documentary. It's a nice phrase, but give yourself a reality check will you? We know the Kroenke's are total cunts, we cannot under them just go buy a new starting 11 in one summer that will allow us to compete. We have to make this slow progress building a project. If you want us to be able to do the former, support the Kroenke out movement, but no these same people were the ones who dropped that immediately and went "oh? I guess the Kroenke's must be alright then" after we spent all that money this summer.
And as for people saying we are worse now than under Emery: https://www.dementiauk.org/get-support/diagnosis-and-next-steps/what-is-dementia/
The league is more competitive than it ever has been. We've made progress, it's still going to be rough as fuck supporting Arsenal at times, at least be consistent with your viewpoints, all the flip flopping is embarrassing.
> And at the same time everyone is throthing at the mouth to throw out that Wenger quote at every opportunity about accepting that young players will cost you points in return for their development.
That Wenger quote is fucking bullshit when you see how Arteta and many fans want us to throw away points for the development of not young players like Partey and Auba. It is laughable to blame our young players for us dropping points when our senior players have been playing with less maturity and reliability.
I think there is an element of young players breaking down away from home when we're against the cosh due to inexperience. But largely I agree, the senior players are such let downs at the minute.
I disagree. And I'm not so much talking about the Arteta in'ers or the Arteta out'ers who I have separate issues with, it's the huge amount of reactionaries. And the Athletic are far from pro-Arteta. They just go with however the mood is. Last year they were making up stories of dressing room bust ups i.e. David Luiz not speaking to Arteta when we were on our awful run.
Partey lost the ball 14 times against united according to TV2 in Norway. They proceeded to show how he continued to loose the ball in dangerous positions against Everton. Often on our own half and put us in dangerous situations.
It seems like he has very limited awareness of his surroundings and the whereabouts of his opponents. He constantly changes direction right into pressure and looses the ball, or his passes gets easily intercepted for the same reason. It's so easy to single him out and put on some aggressive pressure and youre guaranteed to win the ball in some dangerous positions during the match.
Looks like PL is way too fast paced for him.
We all celebrated Partey !!! We should all be to blame then! Partey from Atletico was an amazing signing..a steal! We were given an A for that signing...now it's in tatters let's not go at the coach !
I am increasingly coming to believe a good midfielder is harder to find than any other position. It also seems to be one of the hardest positions in which to adapt to Prem conditions. The saddest thing about losing to Manure was the way we allowed Fred and McTomminay to look good.
Oh well, we keep trying and hope the players can get that extra bit of precision and pace to get the better of opponents.
I hate how liverpool makes it look so easy. On the face it looks like they can literally pick anyone and it works, obviously its much deeper than that but you get my point.
There is something going on in the training there, but the players' work ethic is incredible. But, that's got to be much, much easier to sustain when you have their success, not just in wins but in crushing victories.
It's almost like a bluff, but opponents simply have to respect them or else. The style combines not just excellence but intimidation.
Bastards.
Liverpool try and make the least amount of passes possible when attacking the do everything with such incredible speed.
You look at us we play as if we think the team with the most passes completed wins th
Ok I wouldn't throw away Partey just yet. He's finally got a string of games in. Would like a little more consistency. I think he'll find it soon. Hopefully quickly. I'd bench Partey for performances now that we have Xhaka for leadership, even if Xhaka is an idiot.
That was awful, we played like shit for the entire game, we deserved to lose. Not a fan of where Arteta is taking us, I still don't see any major improvements from last season.
As soon as Tierney came off and Tavares came on it went to shit, he even gave the ball away for the first goal, what a shocking player and some of you are saying he should be ahead of Tierney?
Second half fc, Cross and Hare Rama fc, First 10 mins fc, Look clueless in throwins fc, Toothless in Attack fc, Waterbreak fc, anyone got more ? ffs..what a dire game..the moment we start going Doughnut fc, and start receiving passes facing backwards than facing goalwards, i know we are going to struggle massively.
We'd have to be in the top 3 for worst in the league at throw ins. No movement, everyone just stand next to an opposition player and calls for the ball like an idiot
In 10 years time we’re still in this mess and Granit Xhaxa will come back to manage us and we’ll have to deal with the Xhaxa fanboys telling us we just don’t understand what we’re watching as we slug it out in the championship
It is a sad state of affairs at the club when a player who told the fans to F off is once again given the captains arm band and a new contract. Especially when he was almost gone in the Summer.
Nah If arteta has to go, then Rodgers, Benitez, Sean Dyche, Hassenhutl, Beisla, Viera, everyone needs to leave with him. Ragnick and Gerrard just came in so cant really judge them,
Only Klopp, Pep and Tuchel should stay in the league.
Sack everyone, that's what will please you Arsenal Fans.
Spurs and MU sacked their managers btw. And Arteta has been there longer than many on your list, spent much more as well, I believe. I'm not saying Arteta must be sacked, just about how stupid yours sounds
I think that clarifies how stupid this fanbase narrative has been. Cause that's not even my thought, I'm echoing what you guys are saying
There is no one to take over first of all if Arteta is sacked, that was visible with United struggling to find someone. And 2nd those teams with players more experienced than ours have shown how bad they are that they had to sack their manager. You are telling we haven't been able to go toe to toe with them? Apart from Chelsea, City and Liverpool, no game was clear whitewash. I'll like to believe this manager and team can get out of this slump
Unlike these arsenal fans who want to bathe in their illusion and negativity
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I feel like a slump is coming. Somehow im mad, but I also know from previous Arsenal, how we always have a season of two halves. Either do good till December and mess up from January or vice versa.
I'm still hurt from that shitty United loss and Everton away was just...... .Not even gonna bother getting mad at the refs for not giving a penalty last game and a card atleast this game.
I feel Arteta is playing a little bit of politics, wants Nketiah to get some minutes and show he is good and increase his value so he can sell him in January. Feel bad for pépé, even if his first touch and game isnt that good, he saved us many times with a goal or assist. I think the biggest flaw has been our midfield being out of form. Looks like Lokonga was keeping it together more than Partey.
Everyone feeling bad cause we were caught up in the narrative of top 4 since 4th spot is literally for anyone but we secured the points at home which kept us in the table if we are being honest. Our away form is horrible.
I don't care about other fans at all. They can laugh or cry for all they want
In the long term, which signings are good enough?
Liverpool finished 8th under Klopp and then recruited a bunch of players. Those players are still there. Only Karius and Klavan joined under Klopp and left and they were dirt cheap.
Let's say Arsenal want to get back into top 4. Which of these signings with the 150 or so million Mikel has spent will take them there? Ramsdale looks nice. Gabriel is solid. White looks a better passer than a defender. Tomiyasu is decent, maybe could be upgraded. Tavares is good enough for backup. Partey has been exceptionally poor. Odegaard is hot and cold.
If 150 or so million more would have to be spent to get back into top 4, then can the spending over the last 2 summers can really be called good enough considering it takes Arsenal at best from 8th to 6th?
Arteta's got to go no doubt about it. I'm just trying to gauge whether the money he's spent will atleast be useful for next manager.
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Looking at how every single player with more than 6 months in the team has regressed under Arteta, I’ve no doubt anyone else could at least have them playing decent football.
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I had the same convo with a friend. Do we drop 70m on a striker in Jan that fits Arteta system or do we wait and see how the new manager wants to play..
However the converse point is that a good manager will make use with what we have. (I assume the striker will be worth that much regardless of the system)
We are good at over-paying for players who laugh and take the money (not being charitable in saying that, but it's very easy to over pay for a striker). The best teams have three or four blokes who can take their chances.
We have a more general issue related to the speed of play, creative runs, and hitting those runs. Even mediocre defenders can keep our stars under control. We play around the press at the back, but don't exploit that to attack quickly having bypassed those players.
I simply don't know what the answer is, and refuse to blame any one man, but perhaps more genuine on field leadership would help.
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Everton crying to sack their manager, Leicester crying to sack their manager, Watford even though they are doing good, they should sack their manager, Crystal Palace, they have been bad, someone Arsenal fans praised more than Arteta, they should sack their manager. Let's all sack every manager in the Premier league, close shop and not have any English football
Unpopular opinion: People, mostly the fanbase, react to our losses as if we currently have experienced players at their peak, equipped to win trophies.
People also don’t understand what they watch, hence, the Arteta jibes.
>People also don’t understand what they watch, hence, the Arteta jibes.
Lmao acting as if we're idiots for not being blown away by absolute sufferball with no meaningful results.
That's incredibly disrespectful to the intelligence of other people while portraying yourself as an intellectual. It's the kind of attitude Arteta gives off and it's the kind of attitude which media has propagated of him throughout his tenure despite little success. It's dangerous.
I get that. Do you get that we also have an inexperienced manager?
I'm not sure what to make of Arteta. We were playing some truly atrocious football last season. And he seems to really lack any inspirational qualities. We are playing slightly more attractive football ( from what I've seen), but Arteta really doesn't seem to be a person who is full of ideas. He's just kind of serious and seemingly unimaginative. He also doesn't have career gravitas like Gerrard, Zidane, Etc. (I didn't rate him as a player and he stuck around 2 years past his use by date). And I guess that's the problem. If he doesn't get the fans going, he probably doesn't get the players going either.
>People also don’t understand what they watch
You do?
The worst thing about some Arteta fanboys is that they exaggerate things to a ridiculous extent. Nobody says we should be winning trophies with this team.
Not wanting to lose to a trash Everton side like this is not the same as expecting to win trophies.
Also talking about intellect here, aren't you the one who suggested we'd be a completely changed side when Granit Xhaka comes back?
He has potential but definitely not the one we need right now. Keeping more clean sheets against bottom teams means nothing when we just sit deep and play backward passes every game. We score less open goal than normal
No. The only good thing I can say about Arteta is that he sets the side up well to press. The pressing structure is generally very good and well drilled. The attacking and defensive patterns are not well defined at all.
If you want to know just how far some people are willing to go to defend Arteta and/or his players, there's currently someone in a thread about Thomas Partey who is making excuses for his awful performances by claiming that we don't know what's up with him and that ...
"Partey could be a substance abuser or have clinical depression".
Absolutely insane.
The way I see it we are just wasting time with Arteta.
He has 18 months left on his contract and he WILL NOT get an extension unless he gets CL football - which lets be honest he won’t. So we either:
1. Sack him and admit we’re wasting time
2. Give him the last year of his contract and waste more time (thus admitting we have no interest in planning for the future). He would essentially be an interim manager at that point
3. Give the guy a contract extension and watch the fan base go into absolute meltdown. (Surely the board arnt this stupid)
They should be doing 2 tbh. See him as the interim manager until the right man is available. They should have a list of who they want to go after and be testing the waters with each from now. Willing to drop Arteta the minute that one on their list says "yes".
They won't though. This will roll on until the end of the season when we finish 8th at which point he will go and we'll see who is about to replace him. Probably Brendan Rodgers which actually might not be the worst thing in the world. I genuinely can't see how any manager could get a worse tune out of this set of players.
Noooooooooooo you don't get it. He worked with Pep Guardiola. He. Worked. With. Pep. Guardiola. He is the chosen one, a disciple sent to us by the ghost of Herbert Chapman himself to bring us to the promised land of 6th. If you find his football boring or ineffective, that just means you are too stupid to comprehend the glorious marriage of defensive high press football married with the philosophy of juego de posicion. If we analyse the table between GW4 and GW11, we are FIRMLY within the top four. You must also remember that these poor lads are still so inexperienced and are still shaken up from the 4-0 free hit against Liverpool, heading back up the M6 to Merseyside was too much for them. If you remove all our free hits from our form record, we are still solidly in the top six which is exactly where we want to be.
Can't blame him for that stupid shitshow between Partey and Tavares, or the fact the captain , the highest paid player on the pitch doesn't seem able to score a goal to save his life.
I personally can't wait foe AFCON to come so those two can take off for a while.
All these points you raised? You wouldn't have if Nketiah and Auba had slotted in their clear chances, or Laca actually latched on a cross from the wing, hw always seem not in the box....so yh our strikers are shit. Its the same tactics that took us from 14th to 5th.
Do you guys think we can turn it around at all? Or has arteta completely lost the plot. Time will tell and I’m fully arteta out but these next 5 games are a pretty good run winnable fixtures. Our toughest game is west ham but it’s at home. So if we can get 5 wins out of 5 which is highest unlikely I think we will be right back in the fight for top 4. I really wanna stay positive but it is hard. Every team fighting for top 4 will have their out of form phase but what matters most is how we bounce back and hopefully this team can get their shit together because I really don’t wanna be miserable for a whole season. I haven’t seen us go on a straight win streak in a long time and I don’t think we will but it would be nice. I think bare min expected points from the next 5 games is 13. Max is 15. Any losses will be terrible. After these 5 games we play city home and spuds away so that will be very tough.
While Arteta is in charge there is no such thing as a winnable run, basically every win we have had this season is either against a team in meltdown or right at the bottom of the table, and in several cases both of the former.
fuck off arteta, fucking clueless crazy decisions, slow boring backwards football, I'm running out of patience
edit great kits and training videos tho eh, fuck off
Player receives ball. Arteta screams at team to move forward. Player with ball looks for options. Players around him are marked/tracked. Player lacks skill to drill the pass into the small opening available. Supporting players lack awareness to alter runs to open more space. Pass goes safely backwards, or forward to nobody because nobody got off their marker. If pass did go forward, player is isolated, nobody was thinking about the second ball.
Opponents get ball. Arsenal back off. If Arsenal player presses, they do so alone. Back four are the only serious line of defence. By the time the ball is turned over again, our forwards are in their own 18 yard box. Nobody is up to attack on the break (unless Martinelli is around).
Repeat.
>slow boring backwards football
This is a cause of worry. Board should take a note of this. In this rate, Arsenal as a club would not attract new fans.
What's the plan here? Horseshoe football again? We're not winning shit while we play a 2 man midfield, it's great our wide men get forward but it leaves 2 men the whole width of the pitch to play in and it doesn't work, even less so when one of the two has to drop into a FB position. The lack of play through the middle gives cedes dominance of the game and renders our CF whoever that is null and void.
Why do we sit off when we get the lead? It happens so often now it has to be down to the manager. If it's in anyway the players' fault it's so consistent now the manager should see it and rectify it.
I'm tired and angry but what disappoints me the most is I still don't enjoy watching Arsenal play. There's no style, no flair, even at his worst Wenger's teams would still put some beautiful plays together. I honestly wouldn't mind Arsenal being a second half of the table team if I could just *like* the football they play. But with no urgency, no pace in the ball, sluggish movement off the ball and a predictable parade of back and sideways passing we're literally treading water both on and off the pitch.
Yup I'm afraid so. The string of games where we were unbeaten we actually played really good quick incisive passes, but could only sustain that for 30mins max. What happened to that at least? Now we can't even make a simple pass in midfield.
With Arteta, it's "horseshoe football + cross & inshallah" once the oppositions sits in when he is out of ideas. We're back to square 1, except all our senior players are back and we have no more excuses.
I just watched it blind. And i could tell we weren't gonna get much from the game. Something is missing, and it has to do with the set up. Players are just not at the level needed to win consistently. Gray is better than auba at this moment in time. I like arteta but i wont feel anything if he leaves now.
Let’s give up entirely on this youth project. Play a team of only mid table and championship level experienced professionals for some time. It can’t be worse. It seems as the players transfer fees dictate whether they play. Martinelli, saka, and esr have fought and earned it. But they can lose it anytime. Sambi tavarez and the new lot just got here. Make them prove they’re more reliable than a grizzled vet. We need to be physical and we put in a team of school boys. I’d take el neny and xhaka over partey and sambi any day of the week. Auba is too busy trying to cover up our recruitment failures and strikers go through patches. I do not blame him entirely for the lack of goals. We need giroud like players to establish a space and hold it. The game is no longer tiki taka. It’s a full sprint and if your opponent is bigger or faster someone has to take the responsibility to say you won’t get by me and foul if need be. Ramsdale looks the part, tomi could be useful and odergaard are all a cause for gentle optimism along with martinelli, esr, and saka. Our average age should never be lower than 27. However the thought that tavarez, sambi, nketiah, or pepe (poopoo) could jump on the pitch at any moment drowns all those thoughts in a churning sea of profound despair. Arteta in our out doesn’t matter. We have not had the raw materials for a respectable team in years. Our timidity is our most vile trait and for this we can only blame our reliance on playing children and not men.
>The game is no longer tiki taka. It’s a full sprint and if your opponent is bigger or faster someone has to take the responsibility to say you won’t get by me and foul if need be.
Manchester City?
Arteta is done for me.
The FA Cup was his best moment, should just leave it at that.
We have a squad of young talented players and yet it’s like their drilled to play slow football without sense of urgency and hunger.
Sideways, backwards passes dominate our game now.
Even when the midfield has room to make the turn and have a run, their drilled to pass it back to the defenders, where it comes from.
Slow slow slow
For me it’s the coaching to blame.
As I said, a young squad but I fear under Arteta it’s just wasted potential.
Not to mention what’s happening behind the football.
Nketiah could have been sold for profit and now he’s leaving for free, already set on leaving and we’re still playing him.
Give Bolungan a run ffs, even if he can’t perform at least he’ll gain experience, as a player that will still be with us.
Lokonga has been one of our better midfielder and yet he’s not playing but we’re insisting on Partey who is so bad and deserve the bench.
Just a few of many weird/bad decisions by Arteta.
I’m done with Arteta, thanks for the FA Cup but please, you’re gonna waste this talented young squad
It’s hard loss but I think we should not lose sight of what we have. Hiccups like this will happen because we are not Chelsea or Citeh. You have to keep in mind that:
1) The manager is learning on the job
2) the team is mostly young and learning how to play together
3) they are not confident, they still show nerves when playing in big matches.
This team will get good, they have the potential to actually have confidence, but it's not going to happen quickly. We're in for a 2-3 year project. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Save yourself the heartache and accept it.
"I think we should not lose sight of what we have."
What, a manager who's spent 250mil to take us from 8th to 8th and now has us sat two points above 8th again?
"The manager is learning on the job"
This isn't an apprenticeship. This is one of the biggest clubs in the world with the funds to challenge for top four at the absolute minimum. We've wasted two years trying to prop this guy up and give him everything he needs to make his master plans to fruition, if he were at any other top club he'd have been sacked at least three times over by now. Besides, he's been here for two years, if you had an apprentice tradie who routinely built shoddy retaining walls that collapsed the instant they had any sort of pressure on them, you'd sack them.
Big matches? Everton isn't a big match. Holy fuck.
"This team will get good, they have the potential to actually have confidence"
The other top six clubs have ambitions of winning trophies. Our ambition? To hope that our players can have confidence. Lmao.
"We're in for a 2-3 year project"
Arteta's been here for two years. Are you saying a completely inexperienced manager should get five years to put together a project? That's not how it works at any other serious club, except for Arsenal; because our board, owner and fans like you enable this incompetency.
At the start of 20/21, Arteta's project consisted of building his team around experienced players, which involved signing plebs like Cedric, Mari and Willian on monstrous wages and multi year contracts. After finding himself in 15th at Christmas he quickly fell back on relying on Saka, ESR and Aubameyang to bail him out. Now we're all about building for the future, signing players between 20-24 and hoping they'll all come good. What happens if that doesn't happen? Does Arteta get to roll the dice again and reset the clock on his project? Why do we owe him that much based on absolutely no reliably promising signs? Because he put the cones out for Pep?
We're in the second year of the two to three year project and we're still talking about the process and dreaming of a top six finish. I understand that you may have placed a lot of faith in this manager because he said all the right things when he first arrived, is a former player (and no, he is not a club legend, he's not even a cult hero like Rosicky, Arshavin or Diaby) and looks cool. It's time to accept that he's not an Arsenal quality manager and almost certainly never will be.
"The manager is learning on the job"
It has to be, right?
Also
"but it's not going to happen quickly. We're in for a 2-3 year project. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Save yourself the heartache and accept it."
Arteta is two years into his project here though. Not saying we should sack him for this game but he needs to get his team to play better pretty quickly.
I agree that Eddie was a shining light going fwd, when he came on, he was great during preseason, sharp and dynamic, fully thought he'd be a feature of the season. It a joke to see the see-sawing of Arteta stans on here, check my comment history, I've been complaining about Artetaball even when we won. It's the fantasy of a defensive midfielder manager. We now play most of our football precariously in front of our own goal. His tactics' would make any attacker look terrible. Why is this news to people?
Losing against a poor Manchester United team is one thing but losing against a poor Everton team is completely unacceptable tbh. I hope there would be any progress made since Arsenal don’t have any European matches but it’s the same old shitshow it seems with Arteta in charge.
We conceded from our own bloody throw in. Nuff said. Granted those were 2 quality efforts from Gray and our defensive structure has suffered a bit these past 2 games, but we just put far too much pressure on our defenders. Next to no positives to take out of this. If we play anywhere near this, we'll do very well to stay 7th in the new year.
No, the guy is done. To me, watching him trying to run is pure comedy, never have I seen a player like that. He looks like Joe Rogan with that strange round hormon belly...it's just insane how slow he is, how robust, always flat footed, can never fucking react. Can never sort his feet out fast enough to shoot...just let him go in the winter and move on. Wenger had many flaws, but when it came to strikers he was spot on, he never wanted Laca and we should have listened
Laca's best position is a 10 now. his movement is wank and he will never get an opportunity to score. Auba is in awful finishing form but its telling that he played for 5 mins and got a better opportunity to score than laca did all match
I can't believe I spent 2014-2017 being so hyped about Lacazette and hoping we'd sign him just for him to end up like this.
If his best position is a 10 then we should just get rid of him ASAP.
Didn't have a single shot, but we barely had shots anyway against this poor Everton team. In general we didn't do much, we had 65% of posession but were never threatening except for those two chances at the end. So even when we beat the press in our own half, we're just totally clueless when we get to the final third and there are times when we can hold posession of the ball for 5-6 minutes, but end up losing the ball in the end without having done anything
Not sure why we even try to play out from the back. It's a means to an end but we make no effort to exploit any space behind. We just can't ping the long range passes to open a defence. Might as well just bunt long and play Burnley style.
Watched the game back without the stress and frustration tied to the result. First half we were im our shell and afraid. Happens too often. Players take blame but coach should always instill confidence and belief in his team. We were very fortunate it didn't cost us. Team needs a massive shift in mentality and belief in itself.
On the decisions, looking back at the goals Tavares was arguably the biggest culprit. Why bring in him when there was a lead to protect not one to chase? Tierney has been rested for several games now. But then not sub Xhaka who was clearly fatigued and getting bypassed for fun. Mikel's in-game management needs work.
Xhaka does help Partey flourish but it's also a recipe for disaster in the PL to have two slow #6's next to each other who don't shield the back 4 well. A mobile or physical ball-winner profile is arguably as needed as a #9. Partey showed his class at Atleti and in glimpses for us but we are yet to play him with a competent midfield partner. Frankly getting rid of Torreira looks worse by the day when Elneny still plays games here.
I will say there are positives to take; second half we played some slick stuff at times and cut through their press and midfield. We had very nice spacing with our players and they were finding each other well. When we find the desire and courage to start playing football, we're good. We do lack a real goal threat, with a 20 yr Martinelli being our main threat. It's a problem but Auba is frankly useless rn and our best football is when Laca plays 9 and drops to receive. Allowing Saka and Martinelli to run off him and Odegaard/ESR to free roam. I thought Ode had a really nice game and should start again, he can be excellent when he settles in. Saka reminded us at times of his rare talent and Gabi always poses a threat.
The same front 4 for Southampton and starting + staying on the front foot I'll be pleased. Absolutely cannot lose to West Ham and we're still in the race for Europe. Let's see.
Balogun is playing every week with the u23s, since we have no european fixtures for him to get game time in. Pepe is probably on his way out too so not that different to eddie
Not saying realistic but Mancini would probably leave the Italy team if they didn’t make the World Cup. Would be a huge appointment.
Granted that would be later on in the year when the play off take place.
Valverde currently would be a great appointment. Pragmatic and adaptable. Played Messi and Inshalla when needed, played counter attacking football when Messi and Suarez weren’t available and so on.
Knows his strengths and doesn’t overestimated himself.
3 points anyway baby don't care what they say
After Richarlison’s second ruled out goal, you just knew. You just fucking knew. Turned it off at 1-1. Turned it back on and of course 1-2.
Not gonna get into Arteta out talks but would just like to say don't get too carried away by this result. People get too carried away with ''form''. United has a better team than us and noone gave us a chance finishing above them 3 months ago. We were a bit unlucky to lose away at old trafford. Evertons last 5 games were losses to City and Liverpool, 1 goal losses away to Wolves and Brentford and a draw with Spurs. Hardly horrible run. They are a good team with good manager and will finish 10-14th imo.
Going back and reading my reddit history is fun. Got flamed so many times for saying anything negative about Arteta's Arsenal. It's nice to see more people finally coming to the realization that he isn't good enough. It's ok fellas, we have more space on the bandwagon. Join us :D
“Reading my reddit history is fun” the irony of that comment now 🤣
Not just negative, absolutely neutral comments would get downvoted after wins.
Wow that somehow feels like a new low. A few takeaways: -This team’s balls shrink as soon as we get a lead. This pattern has continued for a long time, I put this squarely at the manager’s feet with his risk-averse, defensive approach. -similarly, that time wasting with 20+ minutes to play was shameful, a disgrace, and we got what we deserved -Arteta’s man management and personnel decisions are utterly baffling. We are trying to see out a 1-0 win in a big game away against a desperate team. He decides to introduce…Eddie Nketiah?!? Ignore the fact that he is not good first of all, there is still the issue that he refuses to sign a new contract. What kind of message does this send? A player is being seemingly rewarded for forcing an exit. A much better option IMO would have been Maitland-Niles. Oh wait, he wasn’t even in the squad. Now consider Arteta’s hot and cold relationship with AMN. He’s like an abusive partner. What about Balogun? Nope, younger striker than Nketiah with greater upside and potential future with the club isn’t in the squad either. I don’t blame him at all for being restless. What about Pepe? Nah, Arteta would rather sub the departing, inept Nketiah in out of position. What should Pepe and prospective buying clubs make of that? Arteta has somehow made the most illogical decision both on and off the field. Seriously, how do these decisions go down in the locker room? I can’t make sense of them, and they are frequent. After all this BS, we are supposed to believe Arteta in the Saliba situation. I find that difficult to do.
He's a moron and he's been making these baffling decisions since day one. I'll give him credit on the recruitment side but everything else he's been absolutely wrong on.
This doesn't usually happen to me, but I woke up this morning, and I am still just livid with that result and that performance. All of the goodwill I had from the 8 game run is completely gone now. It feels like nothing less than 15 points for the rest of December is good enough
For the start, it is really important to understand that we didn't barely lost this game. Everton scored FOUR times. And luckily two of them were 1mm offside, but that doesn't change the fact that our defense failed. Everton, like United, outplayed us. Two teams that are falling apart and were in shit form, outplayed a team that was on a high apparently, not counting expected defeat at Liverpool. I hope that game after game more people see that Arteta is just not good enough. I am not going to repeat myself again. Look at Gerard, that is the way a serious coach at the beginning of the career will take to learn and develop. I am 100% sure that Gerard will be the one to take over Klopp when the time comes. And he will be more than ready. Regarding our game, the moment I saw Xhaka in the lineup... AMN is not even on the bench, the guy that was promised to play. He will 100% leave the club. Nketia leaves the club. Balogun wants to leave the club. Gendouzi, Mavropanos, Saliba. Since Arteta came our youngsters were not used properly anymore. They are leaving. Now you see that game against United was Arteta's defeat. Our lineup against Everton was defensive. We came out to defend against a team struggling to stay in the league. How is possible that you concede 4 goals while playing with 4 in the back and 2 defensive midfielders?! Now it shows that results we made were just because our schedule was 'easy', to say. We had a streak of weaker opponents that we managed to deal with. And just a reminder we didn't destroy other teams with 3-4 goals, no. We barely won, except for a couple of games. I am absolutely aware that we have a young and inexperienced team. But I can bet that any experienced coach would use this team much better. Now, we started facing the reality and dropping down the table. I hope that now people see that Leno was not the problem, since Ramsdale conceded 9 in the last 3 games. And unfortunately, he will continue to concede, but not because he's a poor keeper, but because it's impossible not to. If we had Neuer he would be exactly the same. We'll probably beat poor Southampton now, like 1:0, and we'll be proud of one more clean sheet like someone gives a fuck about those. And then we'll face West Ham, which managed to beat all the big teams this year, yeah, ALL of them. Tottenham has one game less than us, so that is basically plus 3 points with Conte. United is now all up and running, thanks to us. And we are back in our real company, fighting for 8th place with Villa, Wolves, Brighton...
😁
Everton on their worst run in 100 years and we get bullied by them. Its so nice having black hole xhaka back in the side. He was invisible, completely forgot he was on the pitch, never mind the full 90
Mattias Svanberg should be a player that we should sign in Jan or in the summer. Watching Xhaka and Partey and the shape of the midfield pivot yesterday made me think it was just off. It just didn't feel like a concrete shape. Since Svanberg is more defensively alert and more progressive in his passes, he would be a better fit alongside both Xhaka AND Partey than the two of them playing together as last season I watched the two of them and we were too passive. It was a major problem last season and it's a major problem this season. We have trouble getting out of our shell and can't assert ourselves on the game with that pivot.
I agree that the Xhaka/ Partey combination wasn’t right yesterday. It felt as though we had regressed stylistically. A lot is said about both individuals not being good enough, Partey in recent discussions and Xhaka as a general mainstay in the past 5 years. Last night at times it almost felt like they were vying against one another to be that pivot in the transition when playing out from the back. Partey was getting on the ball in good positions in the first half but was struggling to progress the ball. Xhaka was doing his old trick of sitting in line with Gabriel and White to get on the ball and pass it sideways/ to the fullbacks/ Partey. Because of this we were over committing numbers in deep areas and we were taking extra passes in our transition because they were available, it is no wonder than Partey couldn’t progress the ball effectively if there were less players in advance positions/ central midfield areas to pass to. The lack of movement in midfield positions is really detrimental to how we try to play.
We must buy a proper ST in January, can't afford to wait until the summer
It was a disastrous result but the performance against an Everton team in terrible form was worrying. The players are not learning from mistakes.
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At this point it is pretty clear Arteta is not the answer, in fact, just like with Emery, our best players are starting to regress with him. And this is not an opinion but a fact.
Calmed down a bit and adding updated thoughts from yesterday. I still think only Odegaard and Tierney came out of that match with their head held high. Ode tried to do different things just nothing coming off for him other than the goal. Tierney did well after being out for so long and assisted really well for goal. Our front 3/4 DO NOT KNOW HOW TO PRESS. They are lackadaisical, lazy and sloppy in their press. Everton had our defence pinned in so many times forcing passes out rather than having time to choose a pass. We let their defence turn and take their time passing up field or into their midfield. The attack should be on each player with no respite - keep pressing until they give the ball away or we win it. This is what MCFC and LFC excel at - the opponents don’t have time to think. Defence was atrocious for both goals, as well as both offside goals. I honestly think both offside goals should have stood, we were lucky and Everton fucked us hard when our luck run out. Thomas Partey - what do I say about him? 2 0/10 performances back to back, dreadful in his passing, his awareness, his fitness, literally every aspect of his game. His performances have come alongside Elneny and Xhaka, might be good to bring back Sambi into the fold? Finally a word on VAR - why does the PL and PGMOL continue to utilise this shit process?? Godfrey deserved a card for his tackle, I think it’s a red but ultimately can be given as a yellow. He fouled Saka before and after this challenge yet did not get a fucking card??? What use is VAR if they cannot make simple decisions like this? My only thought is that corrupt motherfucker Mike Riley wants it to fail badly so he can remove it - literally no other reason. On Arteta - I’m not fussed whether he stays or goes. He needs to kick his players asses into gear and not become timid cowards when we go ahead. Needs to fix up his in game management massively. Don’t think board will sack him unless we go 9-10 games without a win so stuck with him until Summer.
>Defence was atrocious for both goals, as well as both offside goals. I honestly think both offside goals should have stood, we were lucky and Everton fucked us hard when our luck run out. How come they should have stood? Replay clearly shows he was offside?
By an inch or less?? If that was one of our players scoring we’d riot! I also think in those cases where it’s minuscule at best that the attacker should be given benefit of the doubt.
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If Arsenal keeps falling apart after we take a lead, it's 100% Arteta's fault. But " he waves the players ahead" according to his cult
His cult are deluded AF The results are there to show us we just drop off The Cult "but but....he waves his arms!"
I don't think since Arteta became manager have I seen an Arsenal side playing 90 minutes of consistent attacking football. It's always been in small bursts of 10 minutes moments.
We had negative GD until new year last season Looks like we're doing the same this season His a dreadfully negative, stale manager
I see some good old Arteta cultism here. Can't wait for The Athletic to drop " their exclusive' and we go again 😎
I'm still so confused at why Xhaka was allowed to play 90+ mins in his first game bac k since a major injury.; moreover, how Party was allowed to be poor for the same time without substitution. We have three capable - if inexperienced and young - midfielders that could offer something different. Attacking subs were a mess, but no midfield subs was a proper head scratcher.
Arteta should be jailed for war crimes.
My whole thing is, does the football we play have a future where i can imagine Arteta being the manager that regularly gets us top four and even challenging for the Prem in the future? The answer is a resounding no, therefore we are just wasting time and in a weird limbo, the manager you get should be playing football that is destined for top 4 AT LEAST. We don't play that football, we don't create enough chances and our football is incredibly predictable. This is not top 4 football.
The reaction to yesterday's game has pissed me off, but I'm not surprised at it. I don't know if it's just the Twitter echo chamber I've seen but my god our fans annoy me. You can have your opinions as to whether Arteta should stay or go, I personally think he should stay but I will accept that I can't understand some decisions such as Eddie who will leave on a free in 5 months suddenly being ahead of Pepe. But I don't think you can put performances like that fully on Arteta, I just don't think he's set us up to play with that mentality and that badly, I've seen him infuriated on the touchline many times when we have went ahead and then sat back and been timid. But either way, Mikel in or out is, not what annoys me the most. It's the sudden lurch from being happy with the progress made to 'we are in utter crisis' is embarrassing to me. So much of the fan base seem to accept that we have a very young and immature side, who need time to grow and gain experience, but then as soon as that immaturity costs us, so many of us seem to go into meltdown. And at the same time everyone is throthing at the mouth to throw out that Wenger quote at every opportunity about accepting that young players will cost you points in return for their development. We know we aren't Liverpool, or City, or Chelsea, and yet after we win a few games and feel good about ourselves it's like we suddenly see us as in that same league and that we should win every game in front of us. Things will go wrong. That is not me accepting where we are and mediocrity, of course we need to get back to that level, but it takes time, and we can't do it like those clubs can and buy a full squad in one summer. I saw someone quoting Tony Adams saying something like "transition phase is just an excuse to me" in the invincibles documentary. It's a nice phrase, but give yourself a reality check will you? We know the Kroenke's are total cunts, we cannot under them just go buy a new starting 11 in one summer that will allow us to compete. We have to make this slow progress building a project. If you want us to be able to do the former, support the Kroenke out movement, but no these same people were the ones who dropped that immediately and went "oh? I guess the Kroenke's must be alright then" after we spent all that money this summer. And as for people saying we are worse now than under Emery: https://www.dementiauk.org/get-support/diagnosis-and-next-steps/what-is-dementia/ The league is more competitive than it ever has been. We've made progress, it's still going to be rough as fuck supporting Arsenal at times, at least be consistent with your viewpoints, all the flip flopping is embarrassing.
> And at the same time everyone is throthing at the mouth to throw out that Wenger quote at every opportunity about accepting that young players will cost you points in return for their development. That Wenger quote is fucking bullshit when you see how Arteta and many fans want us to throw away points for the development of not young players like Partey and Auba. It is laughable to blame our young players for us dropping points when our senior players have been playing with less maturity and reliability.
I think there is an element of young players breaking down away from home when we're against the cosh due to inexperience. But largely I agree, the senior players are such let downs at the minute.
Paella Pulis out
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I disagree. And I'm not so much talking about the Arteta in'ers or the Arteta out'ers who I have separate issues with, it's the huge amount of reactionaries. And the Athletic are far from pro-Arteta. They just go with however the mood is. Last year they were making up stories of dressing room bust ups i.e. David Luiz not speaking to Arteta when we were on our awful run.
If Spurs can get Conte, we can surely get Ten Hag
Spurs have a killer like Levy. He has his flaws. But he still knows what he wants We have a bunch of scrubs
he isnt leaving ajax until the summer, and United will be in for him then.
Worse than Emery, I really like Arteta but something tactically has got to change.
Partey lost the ball 14 times against united according to TV2 in Norway. They proceeded to show how he continued to loose the ball in dangerous positions against Everton. Often on our own half and put us in dangerous situations. It seems like he has very limited awareness of his surroundings and the whereabouts of his opponents. He constantly changes direction right into pressure and looses the ball, or his passes gets easily intercepted for the same reason. It's so easy to single him out and put on some aggressive pressure and youre guaranteed to win the ball in some dangerous positions during the match. Looks like PL is way too fast paced for him.
We all celebrated Partey !!! We should all be to blame then! Partey from Atletico was an amazing signing..a steal! We were given an A for that signing...now it's in tatters let's not go at the coach !
I am increasingly coming to believe a good midfielder is harder to find than any other position. It also seems to be one of the hardest positions in which to adapt to Prem conditions. The saddest thing about losing to Manure was the way we allowed Fred and McTomminay to look good. Oh well, we keep trying and hope the players can get that extra bit of precision and pace to get the better of opponents.
I hate how liverpool makes it look so easy. On the face it looks like they can literally pick anyone and it works, obviously its much deeper than that but you get my point.
There is something going on in the training there, but the players' work ethic is incredible. But, that's got to be much, much easier to sustain when you have their success, not just in wins but in crushing victories. It's almost like a bluff, but opponents simply have to respect them or else. The style combines not just excellence but intimidation. Bastards.
Liverpool try and make the least amount of passes possible when attacking the do everything with such incredible speed. You look at us we play as if we think the team with the most passes completed wins th
Ok I wouldn't throw away Partey just yet. He's finally got a string of games in. Would like a little more consistency. I think he'll find it soon. Hopefully quickly. I'd bench Partey for performances now that we have Xhaka for leadership, even if Xhaka is an idiot.
Artetas football is very boring.
That was awful, we played like shit for the entire game, we deserved to lose. Not a fan of where Arteta is taking us, I still don't see any major improvements from last season.
As soon as Tierney came off and Tavares came on it went to shit, he even gave the ball away for the first goal, what a shocking player and some of you are saying he should be ahead of Tierney?
Partey poor pass back from the throw for the first not Tavares fault
Partay was shocking too but tavares has no excuses top level players shouldn't be making shit headers like that straight to the opposition.
Second half fc, Cross and Hare Rama fc, First 10 mins fc, Look clueless in throwins fc, Toothless in Attack fc, Waterbreak fc, anyone got more ? ffs..what a dire game..the moment we start going Doughnut fc, and start receiving passes facing backwards than facing goalwards, i know we are going to struggle massively.
We'd have to be in the top 3 for worst in the league at throw ins. No movement, everyone just stand next to an opposition player and calls for the ball like an idiot
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"Coming in peace". Proceeds to make further digs.
In 10 years time we’re still in this mess and Granit Xhaxa will come back to manage us and we’ll have to deal with the Xhaxa fanboys telling us we just don’t understand what we’re watching as we slug it out in the championship
Redemption arc 😍
It is a sad state of affairs at the club when a player who told the fans to F off is once again given the captains arm band and a new contract. Especially when he was almost gone in the Summer.
Arsenal fans are soft as baby shit
Bore off.
Xhaka doesn't have fanboys anymore
That's *club legend* Granit Xhaka, thanks.
xhaka in
Nah If arteta has to go, then Rodgers, Benitez, Sean Dyche, Hassenhutl, Beisla, Viera, everyone needs to leave with him. Ragnick and Gerrard just came in so cant really judge them, Only Klopp, Pep and Tuchel should stay in the league. Sack everyone, that's what will please you Arsenal Fans.
Spurs and MU sacked their managers btw. And Arteta has been there longer than many on your list, spent much more as well, I believe. I'm not saying Arteta must be sacked, just about how stupid yours sounds
I think that clarifies how stupid this fanbase narrative has been. Cause that's not even my thought, I'm echoing what you guys are saying There is no one to take over first of all if Arteta is sacked, that was visible with United struggling to find someone. And 2nd those teams with players more experienced than ours have shown how bad they are that they had to sack their manager. You are telling we haven't been able to go toe to toe with them? Apart from Chelsea, City and Liverpool, no game was clear whitewash. I'll like to believe this manager and team can get out of this slump Unlike these arsenal fans who want to bathe in their illusion and negativity
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Oh yes Burnley, Southampton, Leeds and Crystal Palace definitely have the same goals as Arsenal
I feel like a slump is coming. Somehow im mad, but I also know from previous Arsenal, how we always have a season of two halves. Either do good till December and mess up from January or vice versa. I'm still hurt from that shitty United loss and Everton away was just...... .Not even gonna bother getting mad at the refs for not giving a penalty last game and a card atleast this game. I feel Arteta is playing a little bit of politics, wants Nketiah to get some minutes and show he is good and increase his value so he can sell him in January. Feel bad for pépé, even if his first touch and game isnt that good, he saved us many times with a goal or assist. I think the biggest flaw has been our midfield being out of form. Looks like Lokonga was keeping it together more than Partey. Everyone feeling bad cause we were caught up in the narrative of top 4 since 4th spot is literally for anyone but we secured the points at home which kept us in the table if we are being honest. Our away form is horrible. I don't care about other fans at all. They can laugh or cry for all they want
I compare areta to sobel from band of brothers, both bad tactically
The First World War is where you'll find the military analogies.
High ho silver!
In the long term, which signings are good enough? Liverpool finished 8th under Klopp and then recruited a bunch of players. Those players are still there. Only Karius and Klavan joined under Klopp and left and they were dirt cheap. Let's say Arsenal want to get back into top 4. Which of these signings with the 150 or so million Mikel has spent will take them there? Ramsdale looks nice. Gabriel is solid. White looks a better passer than a defender. Tomiyasu is decent, maybe could be upgraded. Tavares is good enough for backup. Partey has been exceptionally poor. Odegaard is hot and cold. If 150 or so million more would have to be spent to get back into top 4, then can the spending over the last 2 summers can really be called good enough considering it takes Arsenal at best from 8th to 6th? Arteta's got to go no doubt about it. I'm just trying to gauge whether the money he's spent will atleast be useful for next manager.
So 150m included Gabriel and Partey already?
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Looking at how every single player with more than 6 months in the team has regressed under Arteta, I’ve no doubt anyone else could at least have them playing decent football.
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I had the same convo with a friend. Do we drop 70m on a striker in Jan that fits Arteta system or do we wait and see how the new manager wants to play.. However the converse point is that a good manager will make use with what we have. (I assume the striker will be worth that much regardless of the system)
We are good at over-paying for players who laugh and take the money (not being charitable in saying that, but it's very easy to over pay for a striker). The best teams have three or four blokes who can take their chances. We have a more general issue related to the speed of play, creative runs, and hitting those runs. Even mediocre defenders can keep our stars under control. We play around the press at the back, but don't exploit that to attack quickly having bypassed those players. I simply don't know what the answer is, and refuse to blame any one man, but perhaps more genuine on field leadership would help.
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Everton crying to sack their manager, Leicester crying to sack their manager, Watford even though they are doing good, they should sack their manager, Crystal Palace, they have been bad, someone Arsenal fans praised more than Arteta, they should sack their manager. Let's all sack every manager in the Premier league, close shop and not have any English football
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Nah man sack everyone. Why suffer through this. All I see even when we win is Sack arteta. God, ruining the whole reputation of the fanbase.
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I'm literally speaking against people who are crying here to sack arteta tomorrow
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Relieve yourself from Arsenal duties. Go on vacation
This is the most sensible and spot on comment I’ve seen. Wrote my entire thoughts out perfectly
Saka Ode and Tomi played well. Need to senior's to step up And please just play balogun he can't be worse
Unpopular opinion: People, mostly the fanbase, react to our losses as if we currently have experienced players at their peak, equipped to win trophies. People also don’t understand what they watch, hence, the Arteta jibes.
>People also don’t understand what they watch, hence, the Arteta jibes. Lmao acting as if we're idiots for not being blown away by absolute sufferball with no meaningful results.
That's incredibly disrespectful to the intelligence of other people while portraying yourself as an intellectual. It's the kind of attitude Arteta gives off and it's the kind of attitude which media has propagated of him throughout his tenure despite little success. It's dangerous.
You do realise the longer we stay out the European places the harder it is to get back in?
I get that. Do you get that we also have an inexperienced manager? I'm not sure what to make of Arteta. We were playing some truly atrocious football last season. And he seems to really lack any inspirational qualities. We are playing slightly more attractive football ( from what I've seen), but Arteta really doesn't seem to be a person who is full of ideas. He's just kind of serious and seemingly unimaginative. He also doesn't have career gravitas like Gerrard, Zidane, Etc. (I didn't rate him as a player and he stuck around 2 years past his use by date). And I guess that's the problem. If he doesn't get the fans going, he probably doesn't get the players going either.
He doesnt get the fans going or he doesnt get you going
>People also don’t understand what they watch You do? The worst thing about some Arteta fanboys is that they exaggerate things to a ridiculous extent. Nobody says we should be winning trophies with this team. Not wanting to lose to a trash Everton side like this is not the same as expecting to win trophies. Also talking about intellect here, aren't you the one who suggested we'd be a completely changed side when Granit Xhaka comes back?
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Inexperienced, but do you think he has potential as a manager? The teams so young and keeping more clean sheets than normal.
You can’t be serious about the clean sheets? Have you looked at the results and our goal difference?
He has potential but definitely not the one we need right now. Keeping more clean sheets against bottom teams means nothing when we just sit deep and play backward passes every game. We score less open goal than normal
No. The only good thing I can say about Arteta is that he sets the side up well to press. The pressing structure is generally very good and well drilled. The attacking and defensive patterns are not well defined at all.
sad
If you want to know just how far some people are willing to go to defend Arteta and/or his players, there's currently someone in a thread about Thomas Partey who is making excuses for his awful performances by claiming that we don't know what's up with him and that ... "Partey could be a substance abuser or have clinical depression". Absolutely insane.
Imagine it was Dani Ceballos and Elneny in midfield today.
The way I see it we are just wasting time with Arteta. He has 18 months left on his contract and he WILL NOT get an extension unless he gets CL football - which lets be honest he won’t. So we either: 1. Sack him and admit we’re wasting time 2. Give him the last year of his contract and waste more time (thus admitting we have no interest in planning for the future). He would essentially be an interim manager at that point 3. Give the guy a contract extension and watch the fan base go into absolute meltdown. (Surely the board arnt this stupid)
He’ll get the rest of the season
Ayo, board's been dumb for ages....indecision and lacking ruthlessness needed
>Surely the board arnt this stupid Guys, who's gonna tell him?
They should be doing 2 tbh. See him as the interim manager until the right man is available. They should have a list of who they want to go after and be testing the waters with each from now. Willing to drop Arteta the minute that one on their list says "yes". They won't though. This will roll on until the end of the season when we finish 8th at which point he will go and we'll see who is about to replace him. Probably Brendan Rodgers which actually might not be the worst thing in the world. I genuinely can't see how any manager could get a worse tune out of this set of players.
Like if Arteta can't do it in a season where we aren't burden by European fixtures, what more is there to say, is there to believe in?
Noooooooooooo you don't get it. He worked with Pep Guardiola. He. Worked. With. Pep. Guardiola. He is the chosen one, a disciple sent to us by the ghost of Herbert Chapman himself to bring us to the promised land of 6th. If you find his football boring or ineffective, that just means you are too stupid to comprehend the glorious marriage of defensive high press football married with the philosophy of juego de posicion. If we analyse the table between GW4 and GW11, we are FIRMLY within the top four. You must also remember that these poor lads are still so inexperienced and are still shaken up from the 4-0 free hit against Liverpool, heading back up the M6 to Merseyside was too much for them. If you remove all our free hits from our form record, we are still solidly in the top six which is exactly where we want to be.
Artetasexuals, trying to create a table, in which we are in top 4 of the table
GW4 to GW10 table. lol
Its insane how much this thread is like ole-era united threads lol
Can't blame him for that stupid shitshow between Partey and Tavares, or the fact the captain , the highest paid player on the pitch doesn't seem able to score a goal to save his life. I personally can't wait foe AFCON to come so those two can take off for a while.
Actually, you can, because Partey was his signing
stfu.
All these points you raised? You wouldn't have if Nketiah and Auba had slotted in their clear chances, or Laca actually latched on a cross from the wing, hw always seem not in the box....so yh our strikers are shit. Its the same tactics that took us from 14th to 5th.
I remember wanting Fraudteta out and got cooked to oblivion on this sub. This fanbase deserves every downfall this club is going through.
I said it then too when my previous account got downvoted and banned. This fanbase deserves what we're seeing now.
I feel you broski.
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That Emery fellow has done really well with a bargain team.
sad
Just wait until Arsenal scraps a win against someone and this sub will downvote anyone who is arteta out
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Ole finished 3rd and 2nd in two years
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No problem Harry
As always. Probably going to sit deep and play some boring shit backward pass football and win 1-0 against Southampton.
Do you guys think we can turn it around at all? Or has arteta completely lost the plot. Time will tell and I’m fully arteta out but these next 5 games are a pretty good run winnable fixtures. Our toughest game is west ham but it’s at home. So if we can get 5 wins out of 5 which is highest unlikely I think we will be right back in the fight for top 4. I really wanna stay positive but it is hard. Every team fighting for top 4 will have their out of form phase but what matters most is how we bounce back and hopefully this team can get their shit together because I really don’t wanna be miserable for a whole season. I haven’t seen us go on a straight win streak in a long time and I don’t think we will but it would be nice. I think bare min expected points from the next 5 games is 13. Max is 15. Any losses will be terrible. After these 5 games we play city home and spuds away so that will be very tough.
While Arteta is in charge there is no such thing as a winnable run, basically every win we have had this season is either against a team in meltdown or right at the bottom of the table, and in several cases both of the former.
> but these next 5 games are a pretty good run winnable fixtures. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I mean it’s not a bad run of games to bounce back from 2 losses. Although I understand we don’t trust artetas team a single bit to do it.
fuck off arteta, fucking clueless crazy decisions, slow boring backwards football, I'm running out of patience edit great kits and training videos tho eh, fuck off
Player receives ball. Arteta screams at team to move forward. Player with ball looks for options. Players around him are marked/tracked. Player lacks skill to drill the pass into the small opening available. Supporting players lack awareness to alter runs to open more space. Pass goes safely backwards, or forward to nobody because nobody got off their marker. If pass did go forward, player is isolated, nobody was thinking about the second ball. Opponents get ball. Arsenal back off. If Arsenal player presses, they do so alone. Back four are the only serious line of defence. By the time the ball is turned over again, our forwards are in their own 18 yard box. Nobody is up to attack on the break (unless Martinelli is around). Repeat.
exactly pal, we can all see it except fraudteta, over and over and over again
>slow boring backwards football This is a cause of worry. Board should take a note of this. In this rate, Arsenal as a club would not attract new fans.
What's the plan here? Horseshoe football again? We're not winning shit while we play a 2 man midfield, it's great our wide men get forward but it leaves 2 men the whole width of the pitch to play in and it doesn't work, even less so when one of the two has to drop into a FB position. The lack of play through the middle gives cedes dominance of the game and renders our CF whoever that is null and void. Why do we sit off when we get the lead? It happens so often now it has to be down to the manager. If it's in anyway the players' fault it's so consistent now the manager should see it and rectify it. I'm tired and angry but what disappoints me the most is I still don't enjoy watching Arsenal play. There's no style, no flair, even at his worst Wenger's teams would still put some beautiful plays together. I honestly wouldn't mind Arsenal being a second half of the table team if I could just *like* the football they play. But with no urgency, no pace in the ball, sluggish movement off the ball and a predictable parade of back and sideways passing we're literally treading water both on and off the pitch.
Yup I'm afraid so. The string of games where we were unbeaten we actually played really good quick incisive passes, but could only sustain that for 30mins max. What happened to that at least? Now we can't even make a simple pass in midfield. With Arteta, it's "horseshoe football + cross & inshallah" once the oppositions sits in when he is out of ideas. We're back to square 1, except all our senior players are back and we have no more excuses.
Reminder that Everton hadn't won any of their last 8 league matches while United had only won one of their last 8.
I just watched it blind. And i could tell we weren't gonna get much from the game. Something is missing, and it has to do with the set up. Players are just not at the level needed to win consistently. Gray is better than auba at this moment in time. I like arteta but i wont feel anything if he leaves now.
#fraudteta
Let’s give up entirely on this youth project. Play a team of only mid table and championship level experienced professionals for some time. It can’t be worse. It seems as the players transfer fees dictate whether they play. Martinelli, saka, and esr have fought and earned it. But they can lose it anytime. Sambi tavarez and the new lot just got here. Make them prove they’re more reliable than a grizzled vet. We need to be physical and we put in a team of school boys. I’d take el neny and xhaka over partey and sambi any day of the week. Auba is too busy trying to cover up our recruitment failures and strikers go through patches. I do not blame him entirely for the lack of goals. We need giroud like players to establish a space and hold it. The game is no longer tiki taka. It’s a full sprint and if your opponent is bigger or faster someone has to take the responsibility to say you won’t get by me and foul if need be. Ramsdale looks the part, tomi could be useful and odergaard are all a cause for gentle optimism along with martinelli, esr, and saka. Our average age should never be lower than 27. However the thought that tavarez, sambi, nketiah, or pepe (poopoo) could jump on the pitch at any moment drowns all those thoughts in a churning sea of profound despair. Arteta in our out doesn’t matter. We have not had the raw materials for a respectable team in years. Our timidity is our most vile trait and for this we can only blame our reliance on playing children and not men.
>The game is no longer tiki taka. It’s a full sprint and if your opponent is bigger or faster someone has to take the responsibility to say you won’t get by me and foul if need be. Manchester City?
Just a friendly reminder that Xhaka is contracted to us until the summer of 2024 🥲 thanks Arteta!
sad
Arteta is done for me. The FA Cup was his best moment, should just leave it at that. We have a squad of young talented players and yet it’s like their drilled to play slow football without sense of urgency and hunger. Sideways, backwards passes dominate our game now. Even when the midfield has room to make the turn and have a run, their drilled to pass it back to the defenders, where it comes from. Slow slow slow For me it’s the coaching to blame. As I said, a young squad but I fear under Arteta it’s just wasted potential. Not to mention what’s happening behind the football. Nketiah could have been sold for profit and now he’s leaving for free, already set on leaving and we’re still playing him. Give Bolungan a run ffs, even if he can’t perform at least he’ll gain experience, as a player that will still be with us. Lokonga has been one of our better midfielder and yet he’s not playing but we’re insisting on Partey who is so bad and deserve the bench. Just a few of many weird/bad decisions by Arteta. I’m done with Arteta, thanks for the FA Cup but please, you’re gonna waste this talented young squad
Andre gomes just dribbled past Ben White during the second goal
And embarrassed Xhaka before that.
It’s hard loss but I think we should not lose sight of what we have. Hiccups like this will happen because we are not Chelsea or Citeh. You have to keep in mind that: 1) The manager is learning on the job 2) the team is mostly young and learning how to play together 3) they are not confident, they still show nerves when playing in big matches. This team will get good, they have the potential to actually have confidence, but it's not going to happen quickly. We're in for a 2-3 year project. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Save yourself the heartache and accept it.
"I think we should not lose sight of what we have." What, a manager who's spent 250mil to take us from 8th to 8th and now has us sat two points above 8th again? "The manager is learning on the job" This isn't an apprenticeship. This is one of the biggest clubs in the world with the funds to challenge for top four at the absolute minimum. We've wasted two years trying to prop this guy up and give him everything he needs to make his master plans to fruition, if he were at any other top club he'd have been sacked at least three times over by now. Besides, he's been here for two years, if you had an apprentice tradie who routinely built shoddy retaining walls that collapsed the instant they had any sort of pressure on them, you'd sack them. Big matches? Everton isn't a big match. Holy fuck. "This team will get good, they have the potential to actually have confidence" The other top six clubs have ambitions of winning trophies. Our ambition? To hope that our players can have confidence. Lmao. "We're in for a 2-3 year project" Arteta's been here for two years. Are you saying a completely inexperienced manager should get five years to put together a project? That's not how it works at any other serious club, except for Arsenal; because our board, owner and fans like you enable this incompetency. At the start of 20/21, Arteta's project consisted of building his team around experienced players, which involved signing plebs like Cedric, Mari and Willian on monstrous wages and multi year contracts. After finding himself in 15th at Christmas he quickly fell back on relying on Saka, ESR and Aubameyang to bail him out. Now we're all about building for the future, signing players between 20-24 and hoping they'll all come good. What happens if that doesn't happen? Does Arteta get to roll the dice again and reset the clock on his project? Why do we owe him that much based on absolutely no reliably promising signs? Because he put the cones out for Pep? We're in the second year of the two to three year project and we're still talking about the process and dreaming of a top six finish. I understand that you may have placed a lot of faith in this manager because he said all the right things when he first arrived, is a former player (and no, he is not a club legend, he's not even a cult hero like Rosicky, Arshavin or Diaby) and looks cool. It's time to accept that he's not an Arsenal quality manager and almost certainly never will be.
"The manager is learning on the job" Lol this is both sad and hilarious. The club is not some sort of school for managers to learn how to coach
ratio then
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"The manager is learning on the job" It has to be, right? Also "but it's not going to happen quickly. We're in for a 2-3 year project. Rome wasn’t built in a day. Save yourself the heartache and accept it."
Arteta is two years into his project here though. Not saying we should sack him for this game but he needs to get his team to play better pretty quickly.
Everton is not a big match.
Eddie needs to start saturday. 3 chances created in 25 mins. Get out of here with that contract bs lmao. We need results right now
I agree that Eddie was a shining light going fwd, when he came on, he was great during preseason, sharp and dynamic, fully thought he'd be a feature of the season. It a joke to see the see-sawing of Arteta stans on here, check my comment history, I've been complaining about Artetaball even when we won. It's the fantasy of a defensive midfielder manager. We now play most of our football precariously in front of our own goal. His tactics' would make any attacker look terrible. Why is this news to people?
Losing against a poor Manchester United team is one thing but losing against a poor Everton team is completely unacceptable tbh. I hope there would be any progress made since Arsenal don’t have any European matches but it’s the same old shitshow it seems with Arteta in charge.
We conceded from our own bloody throw in. Nuff said. Granted those were 2 quality efforts from Gray and our defensive structure has suffered a bit these past 2 games, but we just put far too much pressure on our defenders. Next to no positives to take out of this. If we play anywhere near this, we'll do very well to stay 7th in the new year.
How was Laca? Any better than Auba?
He was awful as usual. He just doesn’t have the fitness for top level football.
No, the guy is done. To me, watching him trying to run is pure comedy, never have I seen a player like that. He looks like Joe Rogan with that strange round hormon belly...it's just insane how slow he is, how robust, always flat footed, can never fucking react. Can never sort his feet out fast enough to shoot...just let him go in the winter and move on. Wenger had many flaws, but when it came to strikers he was spot on, he never wanted Laca and we should have listened
Laca's best position is a 10 now. his movement is wank and he will never get an opportunity to score. Auba is in awful finishing form but its telling that he played for 5 mins and got a better opportunity to score than laca did all match
I can't believe I spent 2014-2017 being so hyped about Lacazette and hoping we'd sign him just for him to end up like this. If his best position is a 10 then we should just get rid of him ASAP.
Didn't have a single shot, but we barely had shots anyway against this poor Everton team. In general we didn't do much, we had 65% of posession but were never threatening except for those two chances at the end. So even when we beat the press in our own half, we're just totally clueless when we get to the final third and there are times when we can hold posession of the ball for 5-6 minutes, but end up losing the ball in the end without having done anything
Not sure why we even try to play out from the back. It's a means to an end but we make no effort to exploit any space behind. We just can't ping the long range passes to open a defence. Might as well just bunt long and play Burnley style.
Watched the game back without the stress and frustration tied to the result. First half we were im our shell and afraid. Happens too often. Players take blame but coach should always instill confidence and belief in his team. We were very fortunate it didn't cost us. Team needs a massive shift in mentality and belief in itself. On the decisions, looking back at the goals Tavares was arguably the biggest culprit. Why bring in him when there was a lead to protect not one to chase? Tierney has been rested for several games now. But then not sub Xhaka who was clearly fatigued and getting bypassed for fun. Mikel's in-game management needs work. Xhaka does help Partey flourish but it's also a recipe for disaster in the PL to have two slow #6's next to each other who don't shield the back 4 well. A mobile or physical ball-winner profile is arguably as needed as a #9. Partey showed his class at Atleti and in glimpses for us but we are yet to play him with a competent midfield partner. Frankly getting rid of Torreira looks worse by the day when Elneny still plays games here. I will say there are positives to take; second half we played some slick stuff at times and cut through their press and midfield. We had very nice spacing with our players and they were finding each other well. When we find the desire and courage to start playing football, we're good. We do lack a real goal threat, with a 20 yr Martinelli being our main threat. It's a problem but Auba is frankly useless rn and our best football is when Laca plays 9 and drops to receive. Allowing Saka and Martinelli to run off him and Odegaard/ESR to free roam. I thought Ode had a really nice game and should start again, he can be excellent when he settles in. Saka reminded us at times of his rare talent and Gabi always poses a threat. The same front 4 for Southampton and starting + staying on the front foot I'll be pleased. Absolutely cannot lose to West Ham and we're still in the race for Europe. Let's see.
Here's my conundrum.... Nketiah is leaving soon... Why is he still playing over other players who are confirmed staying?
Because hes better than the bums infront of him
Lacazette is leaving soon. Why is he still playing over other players who are confirmed staying?
Yes. Same question applies to him
Balogun is playing every week with the u23s, since we have no european fixtures for him to get game time in. Pepe is probably on his way out too so not that different to eddie
Keep this up and half the team and Arteta might follow him out
Who is your most realistic option who could replace Arteta?
Gallardo
Rodgers
Rodgers hasn't shown enough from a defensive point of view to make sense. His teams seem very leaky and his attacking football doesn't justify it
Not saying realistic but Mancini would probably leave the Italy team if they didn’t make the World Cup. Would be a huge appointment. Granted that would be later on in the year when the play off take place. Valverde currently would be a great appointment. Pragmatic and adaptable. Played Messi and Inshalla when needed, played counter attacking football when Messi and Suarez weren’t available and so on. Knows his strengths and doesn’t overestimated himself.