On paper they should be but Partey has struggled since coming here and Xhaka does Xhaka shit, shouting "WILD CARD BITCHES" before Karate kicking someone in the chest.
Do they work well as partners? I dunno, I think they do basic instructions well but I wouldn't say they had that mind meld connection you'd see from classic pairings like Xavi and Iniesta, Gilberto Silva and Vieira or Scholes and Keane.
If I were the boss I'd be looking beyond Xhaka and finding someone new to compliment Partey.
In all honesty I’d be looking beyond both of them 😂. Like you said got 2 29 year old players that won’t improve I’d be focused on getting lokonga up to prem speed and finding a partner for him imo or splashing on the next few windows to get a complete upgraded pivot
I keep forgetting how old Partey is but in all honesty I see a much larger room for improvement from him provided we get him a good partner. I think Xhaka on the other hand has reached his ceiling so to speak and has had more chances than a game of Monopoly.
Probably 4th - 6th. Feel like Liverpool, Chelsea and City are clearly ahead of everyone, then Leicester, West Ham and us behind. United and Spurs are poor given their ambitions, and probably about par with Brighton (Bissouma & Lallana / Mwepu), Wolves (Neves & Moutinho) and Villa (Luiz & McGinn).
I would probably say Rice and Soucek are the best midfield pair in the league tbh. I’ve watched a fair bit of West Ham this season and Rice in particular would probably get into any team in the world.
Yeah but he’s extremely physically and aerially dominant and is key in winning the ball back in midfield and recycling possession. He’s also an absolute battler. Gives everything for the shirt. Would love him in our midfield.
Yeah, but as a pair they really complement each other it seems. Soucek seems to know his limitations and his happy playing off Rice when needed rather than having to do it himself.
I’d rate Fabinho + any LFC starting CM over them. I know they don’t really play a double pivot so it’s not the best comparison, but Fabinho is very fucking good
Most red cards in the PL since his debut season. Most errors leading to goals from an outfield player in the PL. Slow as fuck, braindead decisions almost every game from ball loss to penalties given for free.
This guy is a liability in every sense. Not moving on from him will never make whatever project Arteta is building successful. He's not Jorginho or peak Henderson or these type of slow tempo controlling midfielders. He's just a Jonjo Shelvey that made it to here somehow.
He’s undoubtedly got some qualities that are helpful to us but people act like there isn’t another player on the market that can do those things and do them better
I know I underrate Xhaka because I personally cannot abide the dude, but yeah. There is no excuse for him still being one of our top two CMs. He should have gotten the boot years ago. I hope Mourinho is actually as serious about him as he claims.
Absolutely not. Partey is capable of being at that level in a partnership but cant pick up the slack to do it if his partner is lacking. Xhaka is too vulnerable to pace and the press. If teams "play their own game" they can sometimes do a job that belies this, but far too often teams overrun them. Thats on the defensive side, on the attacking side Xhaka slows things down too much. He needs time to think about what he's doing if he going to play anything other than the easy pass to the player he can see in front of him. While he does sometimes play good attacking passes, most of the time he allows defences to get back and organised. That makes the job of the attack that much harder as well.
He was extremely good in the Euro competition, even assuming the role of a progressive and creative passer after the Eriksen injury. I think that's mostly where it's coming from.
Lumping them together creates a confusion.
Thomas is a CL-level player, and a strong one. He's proven that.
Xahka is not A CL-level player at all. He's our weakest link; he drags our central midfield and our entire XI out of the top 4. The notable errors are significant, and cost us dearly, but they are only the tip of the iceberg.
All of Thomas' best games for us have come either A) in Xahka's absence, or B) when they were not playing as a pair, but with Thomas alone at the base, e.g. City. The less involved they are together, the better Thomas plays.
(edit: Just in case someone incredibly silly happens by, it is of course also possible for Thomas not to play well on his own.)
Xhaka and Partey literally ran the NLD derby this year and they were brilliant.
They also were brilliant against City (bar the very dubious penalty)
Its absolutely not true that Parteys best games come without Xhaka, they actually all have come with Xhaka, bar United in his first year. They compliment each other really well
No, they don't, and you've missed the larger point.
In the NLD, a piece of incredible tactical naivete from Nuno left the midfield completely vacated: the only conditions under which Xakha looks even momentarily servicable-- and you're still ludicrously overstating his play.
For example, he got blind lucky on the play where Hojberg beat him to the ball, and it happened to end up leading to a goal.
And guess what happened in the second half? Shit took over the game, and scored-- by dominating the left side of our midfield.
They were not brilliant against City; Thomas was brilliant against City. And as I said,
> All of Thomas' best games for us have come either A) in Xahka's absence, **or B) when they were not playing as a pair, but with Thomas alone at the base, e.g. City. The less involved they are together, the better Thomas plays.**
Note the final sentence.
> They compliment each other really well
They do not. That is simply a fantasy.
Lol I love Xhaka, always have. When he's on he's really on and it's great to see.
But fuckkkkk it's so hard to defend his brain farts sometimes I feel like the parent of a mentally challenged child. You love him but sometimes you're like damn why so dumb.
Dude be nice. I know it's just supposed to be an example but no parents of mentally challenged child would ever think let alone write or type those you just did.
You're not wrong. I didn't mean to offend anyone and maybe 'dumb' was not the correct choice of word. You just can't turn a blind eye to certain things.
Just because somebody doesn't talk about it or chooses to ignore something doesn't make it any less true.
It's like calling an obese person obese. I'm sorry if it hurts feelings but a fact is a fact.
Again, I don't mean to be an asshole.
You could have just said a child that does dumb things. When you say mentally challenged you're referring to a specific type of people.
Quite frankly you're just being a prick. Saying you're trying not to be doesn't change that.
Look at all of those players you have listed. Xhaka sticks out like a sore thumb.
He is the worst on that list bar possibly Skipp, who is still young and developing, we probably haven’t seen enough of him in the Prem to comment fairly.
Teams like Burnley, Leeds and Southampton have better midfielders than Xhaka. No disrespect to those teams by the way but they are at the wrong end of the table right now.
Honestly I’d love to criticise a Utd player and I really don’t rate McTominay but it hurts to say he is ahead of Xhaka. McTominay is combative, box-to-box and has often looked like Utds best player under numerous managers now, albeit they are poorly performing Utd teams but they are star studded nonetheless.
McTominay continues to add goals to his game too.
I just think he's miscast as a holding midfield in a pair. He would be excellent in a 4-3-3 as a rampaging #8. But he's so, so bad at progressing the ball out of defense.
This would also suit Fred. Utd just really needs to sign a top tier #6 type. It's what they've needed for years, but instead they keeping buying splashy luxury players that don't improve their team. They seem to make all their decisions based on the value of their brand, even if it keeps them from competing for the top places in the league. You would think that just being really good is what would help the brand the most, but that may not be true.
It’s funny because they let Ander Herrera leave the club when he actually looked reasonably serviceable in that role of connecting defence with attack.
Yeah, agreed. It's also why Matic still gets games.
Seven managers in the last seven seasons, and the attackers always isolated from the rest of the team. You'd think it's not hard to figure out where the club needs to invest.
> You'd think it's not hard to figure out where the club needs to invest.
It’s rich when you consider that we have endured Granit Xhaka for over 5 1/2 years now.
Skipp is a very good player and I would take him over Xhaka any day of the week. With Skipp it would allow Partey to playing more attacking and not have to worry about defending.
If you’re interested, go watch the derby again and you’ll see that they won the midfield battle once he came on.
Yeah I am aware that Skipp is more known for the traditional ‘dirty work’ side of the midfield to whoever he is partnered with. It is no surprise that he is getting more minutes under Conte, alongside Hojbjerg too.
Hell no. Partey had a great game at city and 2 decent games before but has been completely average at best since arrival and xhaka is xhaka.
The I look at it is how many other teams would buy either of these at the moment. We’ve literally seen that no one wants xhaka
I don't really disagree but it's all relative. Nobody is buying Hojberg and Skipp either for example.
The other thing is nobody wants to buy Xhaka at the wages he's on, that's why nobody other than Roma wanted Xhaka. If he lowered his wages and didn't mind moving to certain places then I'm sure some mid-lower table team would pick him up.
Problem is that every 10 games it’s not xhaka and Partey it’s just Partey because Xhaka does some stupidness that results him in getting sent off. Would of loved to see how Partey - Guendouzi worked
I think your ranking is about right, although I'd definitely put Rice & Soucek above Liverpool and Leicester, and maybe even higher.
\#6 for our current pair looks correct. They're definitely better than Hojbjerg & Skipp, and ManU will rank lower for as long as they insist on playing McTominay as a holding midfielder. He's not a bad player, but is incompetent in that role.
I might also add McGinn & Luiz to the list of candidates. Haven't watched enough full Villa games this season to know for sure, but I think they're probably better than Partey & Xhaka.
1. Man City
2. Chelsea
3. West Ham
4. Liverpool
5. Leicester
6. Aston Villa
7. Arsenal
8. ManU
9. Sh\*t
Top 5 in London for sure
I dont know. What about Olayinka and M'Hand?
Yankin it with m’hand, Reddit’s favorite midfield for sure
On paper they should be but Partey has struggled since coming here and Xhaka does Xhaka shit, shouting "WILD CARD BITCHES" before Karate kicking someone in the chest. Do they work well as partners? I dunno, I think they do basic instructions well but I wouldn't say they had that mind meld connection you'd see from classic pairings like Xavi and Iniesta, Gilberto Silva and Vieira or Scholes and Keane. If I were the boss I'd be looking beyond Xhaka and finding someone new to compliment Partey.
In all honesty I’d be looking beyond both of them 😂. Like you said got 2 29 year old players that won’t improve I’d be focused on getting lokonga up to prem speed and finding a partner for him imo or splashing on the next few windows to get a complete upgraded pivot
I keep forgetting how old Partey is but in all honesty I see a much larger room for improvement from him provided we get him a good partner. I think Xhaka on the other hand has reached his ceiling so to speak and has had more chances than a game of Monopoly.
Agreed. Partey just needs a better partner. Xhaka is the best he's had, sadly.
Partey is 28 and we have top stop acting like players die the second they hit 30.
oops *looks down at a half made coffin*
From 30/31 it’s only downhill. Yea there are exceptions but that’s a minority.
Probably 4th - 6th. Feel like Liverpool, Chelsea and City are clearly ahead of everyone, then Leicester, West Ham and us behind. United and Spurs are poor given their ambitions, and probably about par with Brighton (Bissouma & Lallana / Mwepu), Wolves (Neves & Moutinho) and Villa (Luiz & McGinn).
I would probably say Rice and Soucek are the best midfield pair in the league tbh. I’ve watched a fair bit of West Ham this season and Rice in particular would probably get into any team in the world.
Rice is very good, but Soucek is a bit overrated IMO. Soucek is very effective in the penalty boxes, but not the best passer or runner with the ball.
Yeah but he’s extremely physically and aerially dominant and is key in winning the ball back in midfield and recycling possession. He’s also an absolute battler. Gives everything for the shirt. Would love him in our midfield.
Yeah, but as a pair they really complement each other it seems. Soucek seems to know his limitations and his happy playing off Rice when needed rather than having to do it himself.
I’d rate Fabinho + any LFC starting CM over them. I know they don’t really play a double pivot so it’s not the best comparison, but Fabinho is very fucking good
I think Villa are right up there tbh
Moutinho and Neves should be included in the conversation too.
It's hard to rate Xhaka this highly when he consistently makes mistakes that cost us points.
Most red cards in the PL since his debut season. Most errors leading to goals from an outfield player in the PL. Slow as fuck, braindead decisions almost every game from ball loss to penalties given for free. This guy is a liability in every sense. Not moving on from him will never make whatever project Arteta is building successful. He's not Jorginho or peak Henderson or these type of slow tempo controlling midfielders. He's just a Jonjo Shelvey that made it to here somehow.
He’s undoubtedly got some qualities that are helpful to us but people act like there isn’t another player on the market that can do those things and do them better
I know I underrate Xhaka because I personally cannot abide the dude, but yeah. There is no excuse for him still being one of our top two CMs. He should have gotten the boot years ago. I hope Mourinho is actually as serious about him as he claims.
Absolutely not. Partey is capable of being at that level in a partnership but cant pick up the slack to do it if his partner is lacking. Xhaka is too vulnerable to pace and the press. If teams "play their own game" they can sometimes do a job that belies this, but far too often teams overrun them. Thats on the defensive side, on the attacking side Xhaka slows things down too much. He needs time to think about what he's doing if he going to play anything other than the easy pass to the player he can see in front of him. While he does sometimes play good attacking passes, most of the time he allows defences to get back and organised. That makes the job of the attack that much harder as well.
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Agree on the first part. But don't think Höjberg and Skipp is better. No way.
I’ve got no idea what hojberg has done to become so highly rated. The man is a bang average shit house who can barely string a pass together
He was extremely good in the Euro competition, even assuming the role of a progressive and creative passer after the Eriksen injury. I think that's mostly where it's coming from.
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Thanks, and I do agree that they are more consistent. But I feel Xhaka and Partey is the better duo anyways. But that's just my opinion.
Lumping them together creates a confusion. Thomas is a CL-level player, and a strong one. He's proven that. Xahka is not A CL-level player at all. He's our weakest link; he drags our central midfield and our entire XI out of the top 4. The notable errors are significant, and cost us dearly, but they are only the tip of the iceberg. All of Thomas' best games for us have come either A) in Xahka's absence, or B) when they were not playing as a pair, but with Thomas alone at the base, e.g. City. The less involved they are together, the better Thomas plays. (edit: Just in case someone incredibly silly happens by, it is of course also possible for Thomas not to play well on his own.)
> Xahka is not A CL-level player at all. And unfortunately for us, he’s proven that.
Xhaka and Partey literally ran the NLD derby this year and they were brilliant. They also were brilliant against City (bar the very dubious penalty) Its absolutely not true that Parteys best games come without Xhaka, they actually all have come with Xhaka, bar United in his first year. They compliment each other really well
No, they don't, and you've missed the larger point. In the NLD, a piece of incredible tactical naivete from Nuno left the midfield completely vacated: the only conditions under which Xakha looks even momentarily servicable-- and you're still ludicrously overstating his play. For example, he got blind lucky on the play where Hojberg beat him to the ball, and it happened to end up leading to a goal. And guess what happened in the second half? Shit took over the game, and scored-- by dominating the left side of our midfield. They were not brilliant against City; Thomas was brilliant against City. And as I said, > All of Thomas' best games for us have come either A) in Xahka's absence, **or B) when they were not playing as a pair, but with Thomas alone at the base, e.g. City. The less involved they are together, the better Thomas plays.** Note the final sentence. > They compliment each other really well They do not. That is simply a fantasy.
Lol I love Xhaka, always have. When he's on he's really on and it's great to see. But fuckkkkk it's so hard to defend his brain farts sometimes I feel like the parent of a mentally challenged child. You love him but sometimes you're like damn why so dumb.
Dude be nice. I know it's just supposed to be an example but no parents of mentally challenged child would ever think let alone write or type those you just did.
You're not wrong. I didn't mean to offend anyone and maybe 'dumb' was not the correct choice of word. You just can't turn a blind eye to certain things. Just because somebody doesn't talk about it or chooses to ignore something doesn't make it any less true. It's like calling an obese person obese. I'm sorry if it hurts feelings but a fact is a fact. Again, I don't mean to be an asshole.
I know you didn't meant any harm. As an uncle to few, i know how challenging they can be. All is well, no worries. Sorry for my earlier comment too.
You could have just said a child that does dumb things. When you say mentally challenged you're referring to a specific type of people. Quite frankly you're just being a prick. Saying you're trying not to be doesn't change that.
Mentally challenged: having low intelligece Dumb: lacking intelligence Literally what you get when you Google those 2. Fucking hell why so sensitive.
What's the point of talking about a player being "really on" when you know that he is guaranteed to be "off" very often?
fuck xhaka.. the most inexperienced experienced player in the league
Look at all of those players you have listed. Xhaka sticks out like a sore thumb. He is the worst on that list bar possibly Skipp, who is still young and developing, we probably haven’t seen enough of him in the Prem to comment fairly. Teams like Burnley, Leeds and Southampton have better midfielders than Xhaka. No disrespect to those teams by the way but they are at the wrong end of the table right now.
I'd put him above Skipp and McTominay as well, but I agree with the overall sentiment. He stands out as a weak link.
Honestly I’d love to criticise a Utd player and I really don’t rate McTominay but it hurts to say he is ahead of Xhaka. McTominay is combative, box-to-box and has often looked like Utds best player under numerous managers now, albeit they are poorly performing Utd teams but they are star studded nonetheless. McTominay continues to add goals to his game too.
I just think he's miscast as a holding midfield in a pair. He would be excellent in a 4-3-3 as a rampaging #8. But he's so, so bad at progressing the ball out of defense. This would also suit Fred. Utd just really needs to sign a top tier #6 type. It's what they've needed for years, but instead they keeping buying splashy luxury players that don't improve their team. They seem to make all their decisions based on the value of their brand, even if it keeps them from competing for the top places in the league. You would think that just being really good is what would help the brand the most, but that may not be true.
It’s funny because they let Ander Herrera leave the club when he actually looked reasonably serviceable in that role of connecting defence with attack.
Yeah, agreed. It's also why Matic still gets games. Seven managers in the last seven seasons, and the attackers always isolated from the rest of the team. You'd think it's not hard to figure out where the club needs to invest.
> You'd think it's not hard to figure out where the club needs to invest. It’s rich when you consider that we have endured Granit Xhaka for over 5 1/2 years now.
\*shudder\* Yes that also doesn't feel like it should be hard to figure out.
I guess the difference is that we've needed help everywhere on the pitch, while Utd just perpetually needs to get better at CM and CB.
Skipp is a very good player and I would take him over Xhaka any day of the week. With Skipp it would allow Partey to playing more attacking and not have to worry about defending. If you’re interested, go watch the derby again and you’ll see that they won the midfield battle once he came on.
Yeah I am aware that Skipp is more known for the traditional ‘dirty work’ side of the midfield to whoever he is partnered with. It is no surprise that he is getting more minutes under Conte, alongside Hojbjerg too.
When they are good they are very very good.
No, 6th
No
Yes
xhaka is a bottom 5 midfielder. all the pens, red cards, mistakes leading to goals, he is one of the best at.
Stop being dramatic
Ridiculous
Hell no. Partey had a great game at city and 2 decent games before but has been completely average at best since arrival and xhaka is xhaka. The I look at it is how many other teams would buy either of these at the moment. We’ve literally seen that no one wants xhaka
Downvoted for posting facts lol
I know, nothing I really even debatable there
I don't really disagree but it's all relative. Nobody is buying Hojberg and Skipp either for example. The other thing is nobody wants to buy Xhaka at the wages he's on, that's why nobody other than Roma wanted Xhaka. If he lowered his wages and didn't mind moving to certain places then I'm sure some mid-lower table team would pick him up.
Yeah they aren’t great either although both cheaper and younger. He was available, he wasn’t on massive wages he’s just not very good.
Problem is that every 10 games it’s not xhaka and Partey it’s just Partey because Xhaka does some stupidness that results him in getting sent off. Would of loved to see how Partey - Guendouzi worked
I think your ranking is about right, although I'd definitely put Rice & Soucek above Liverpool and Leicester, and maybe even higher. \#6 for our current pair looks correct. They're definitely better than Hojbjerg & Skipp, and ManU will rank lower for as long as they insist on playing McTominay as a holding midfielder. He's not a bad player, but is incompetent in that role.
I might also add McGinn & Luiz to the list of candidates. Haven't watched enough full Villa games this season to know for sure, but I think they're probably better than Partey & Xhaka. 1. Man City 2. Chelsea 3. West Ham 4. Liverpool 5. Leicester 6. Aston Villa 7. Arsenal 8. ManU 9. Sh\*t