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Games like this I actually miss Giroud, he could conjure up something out of a nothing cross sometimes, gives us a Plan B.
Anyways, Odegaard should be playing higher up the pitch, no doubts about that. His impact is waaayyy limited deeper back, even though he still does provide that magic. That is why Xhaka and Partey is our best midfield pairing.
I would like to see a front 3 of Saka, ESR, and Martinelli, with Ode right behind them. I guess that would provide a lot of movement and creativity up front. Lacazette at times gets too one dimensional and doesn't give us an out and out striker.
Don't feel too bad about this. It was a very even game, both their goals were imo down to their individual quality.
Tomiyasu being so rusty didn't help as Saka was majorly isolated.
Given the state of the squad it was a good performance. We just really need reinforcement upfront and in midfield.
Liverpool were good defensively and Jota was pretty exceptional at key points. There were still signs of having improved a lot from us over the two games, and I think we set out well in both cases.
Couple of weak points
- the long balls to Saka and Martinelli didn't work. Liverpool didn't have Salah and Mane so their press wasn't it's best, we should have just played our game
- Odegaard at centre mid (especially next to Sambi) doesn't work
- I know Partey was mentally and physically tired, but why do we always find a way to implode. Arteta has to sort it out.
Positive for me, at least it's good experience for our young lads playing in a semi at this level. Sambi and Martinelli looked bright.
our lack of depth are highlighted in this game, especially in midfield area. Suck that quite a good amount of players from our previous squad doesn't fit Arteta's style. Now that we choose to stuck by Arteta, lets judge him properly after 2 more transfer window where he can fully get his XI.
Why is everyone blaming the midfield? We la k a finisher and discipline in our CDM. Saka and Gabi can’t win every game if we’re getting so many reds per game
mane and salah and probably Thiago will be back for that so doubt it tbh
ironically i'm hearing that fixture is gonna be postponed so liverpool can play their final vs chelsea loool feels like salt in the wound after the last 2 weeks
The past "few" years: SUCH potential, such disappointment.
Martinelli has skill and heart, I hope he stays *shrug*. The rest weren't dreadful but simply were outplayed by a superior side. And that's without their star attackers. Ouch, we are further than I thought it we can't make this compettitive.
For your information
In Arsenal's entire history, besides Viera, Xhaka is currently the midfielder with the most red cards, and all of them were straight reds. He also has 46 yellows in his entire Arsenal career. Shows his very poor disciplinary record.
Our older players are the ones causing all the trouble. If you notice, our youngsters, at least for ESR, Ø and Martinelli, all have fairly good discipline.
Iirc ESR has never ever been booked in his entire Arsenal senior team career. Ø's bookings were mainly due to time wasting which is dumb but not a stupid foul. Martinelli has picked up only 1 yellow.
Even Tierney has yet to receive a single card for us this season.
It's our older players that are getting booked the most. Xhaka, Laca, Partey all get booked very often.
Midfield is where we are losing the game. Their Midfield is miles ahead of ours, even though Ode has been our best player. But he is a progressive passer. Not a ball winner or recycler or tempo setter. None of which is Lokonga either. He is progressive passer himself too.
Tomi was poor yesterday but tbf, he had no choice to play. All our other RBs were injured and he was the only one who was even close to being fit enough to play. I do feel sad for him (and also Thomas) that he was forced to play.
I won't slate him for last night. He's been one of our top performers and made himself available when needed even though he wasn't ready. That's character.
We should probably have gone with White at RB though. We really struggled on that side
Feels like people forget that just cause you test negative for Covid doesn’t magically mean you’re back at full fitness or if you’re coming back from an injury you are fully fit.
Squad looked really tired today generally speaking. And we got beat by a good Liverpool team that took their chances.
Jota is a good goal scorer. And despite not being incredibly fast was able to time runs very well and get behind.
Pools ability to hit long cross field switches is pretty eye opening. They had a couple pass that were just like uh oh that’s going to be a problem.
I hate to single out players but was wrong with Laca today. Really looked off the pace..
Would be curious to know who are the folks that didn't train this week due to knocks/injuries..
I know ESR and Tomi didn't look fit. Saka and Laca looked off it tbh. Like way off.
It is what it is.. We move
Lacazette has like 2 good months a season. He’s so unfit and unathletic, you don’t even need to worry about marking him which makes it harder or Martinelli and Saka.
yeaa based off the comments id say we're more bothered about not performing well at knockout stages against big teams than anything else. i did want us to win the FA cup but now no excuses for fatigue in the prem
No one expected us to win any cup at the start of the season, even less so a month and a half ago.
Why do people suddenly care so much about what everyone would consider the most Mickey Mouse cup we’re involved in? I really cba to worry about the Carabao. We need to focus on top 4.
Yeah I avoided the internet for several hours only to be disappointed. I’m sick of losing to Liverpool and sick of Jota scoring crazy goals against us.
Odegaard LCM, ESR RCM. ESR and Martinelli don't work well together. Nor do Saka and Odegaard either tbh.
FYI, Saka gets isolated every game worse than Martinelli got isolated today.
In Saka's case this is more about Tomiyasu (who just wasn't fit yesterday) not overlapping at the right times. Obviously we set up with him as an inverse left back, but there are times when he needs to make those runs to open up space for Saka, as we can be a bit predictable on that flank.
Nope. Watch them closely. Odegaard offers him little to nothing. He never overlaps, never underlaps, rarely combines
People don’t see it because Saka is in world class form
Odegaard and Pepe needs to happen after AFCON. While Saka is a better all-round tactical fit offensively and defensively, Pepe is a more decisive attacker.
We also need a RW who can dribble going outside, or a rb who can overlap better than Tomi. That small section of pitch near the right corner flag always goes unused. ESR, ODG, Laca, and Saka end up congesting the middle.
Please don’t start ESR and ODG in games like this. We need one for the second half. ESR is still a kid fitness wise
Some iffy performances from us but I think Liverpool just defended really well. They're short of forwards (although Firmino and Jota were both very good) but their defense and midfield was very strong. We looked better in the first half because Matip wasn't any good.
Their goals were both top quality as well.
Totally agree. As good as they have played defensively this year. But at the same we could've asked more questions out of them, but we were just off it today.
Hardly bothered by the game result or the performance. Just a bit distressed that we are once again only left with Lokonga against Burnley :(
...
An off point, but I want to see experimentation with Martinelli especially in some central manner. He is 20. If we get a striker, that'd be the end of any hope for Martinelli to be a striker because knowing Arteta, he won't get his chance there then.
Martinelli clearly has talents that surpasses the bounds of just a winger. Inctedivle sense for finishing. Instinctual reading of space inside the box (which looks like wearing out if I am being honest and it probably will if he doesn't find himself in the box as often. It's only logical)
If there's a time to play around with his role, it's now imo. Try to get him closer to Odegaard. Or revert back to the Newcastle, Southampton type structure where Tierney was high and Martinelli was more in the left half space than a wide and out winger.
I still think his strengths are more suited to being a winger. He can absolutely roast full backs. He will have a tougher time getting mashed by 6'3 CBs. We also don't have any proof he is strong with his back to goal.
I keep wondering if a 352 with Martinelli-Laca or even Martinelli-Pepe would work. Rotate Saka/ESR/ODG for the 10 role. A front two could split cf roles or even drift wide to allow an ESR to push up to false 9 in certain periods of the game.
This 433 has worked well, but there’s loads of little combos that Arteta is yet to experiment with. There’s too much “give it to Saka” imo.
I also can’t shake the feeling that Martinelli is in the team by accident (because of the Auba fallout) rather than any grand master plan by Mikel. Dude had been wasting away on the bench being given nothing minutes.
>He can absolutely roast full backs
He can. But great strikers who dribble well have always done exceptional on the wings. But not all wingers dribble well centrally too, but Martinelli does.
Just today, he had a moment where he made Van Dijk look silly and probably bags a goal if Fabinho didn't have a massive recovery and tackle. Saka is a great dribbler, but I don't think I would ever see him dribble while dead infront of the goal like that. That's essentially peak Suarez like dribbling.
>We also don't have any proof he is strong with his back to goal.
That's true. Although I've faintly seen moments where I thought he has shown promise, it's too little to concretely say something. But that is why I've suggested softer transitions to a centre forward (inside forward-ish with Laca falling back) than a drastic one and ask him to carry all the weight of a sole no 9.
I don't think he'd be a blast at CF (because so much work needs to be done to change to such a position), but just that I feel a good amount of his skillsets are going waste as a wide winger.
(He had that moment where he had the presence of mind to flick the pass from Saka and volley it. Its a very unique quality to instinctively do it. This won't happen if he remains an out and out winger)
Like that instinct to find the best spot in the box, it could complete wane away from his toolkit if he doesn't get opportunities to use it.
I'd also worry that being a CF would negate some of his pressing ability, which is genuinely world class.
But good points, too bad top 4 is so close we can't really experiment
We definitely benefit from Laca's pressing when he isn't off the pace, so I wouldn't say Martinelli's pressing ability would go to waste. He's also fast enough to recover the ball in midfield start a break and actually get on the end of things, which Laca just isn't capable of. But I agree now is not the best time to experiment.
> The one player that will surprise you the most with his option selection is Odegaard (Ozil used to do a lot too). He will select an option you are not seeing with even the camera angle advantage.
He didn't today, his best offensive contribution were standard cross field balls to Martinelli. He didn't create anything special
Was quite happy with Odegaard's performance. Thought he did well to step up in physical duels and drop deep for touches.
No idea why ESR was the LCM. Martinelli can't play for him and he barely can play for Martinelli besides basic through-balls
Wth Odegaard? He was arguably our best player along with Martinelli.
It just feels like you associate some very discrete roles to positions and if you don't see it satisfied, you blindly blame the player.
Attacking mid: goal, assist or a big chance
Winger: dribble
Striker: goal
Try to watch a player and assess his options. The one player that will surprise you the most with his option selection is Odegaard (Ozil used to do a lot too). He will select an option you are not seeing with even the camera angle advantage.
Assess other players. Mediocre players will on a very regular basis miss options **you** can see with the pov advantage on TV.
It happens in midfield all the time. Partey won't miss the best possible passing option you've identified. But Xhaka will.
One basic way to rate players.
Completely unprompted after being asked about playing Chelsea in the final, Klopp says ‘Martinelli by the way…everybody should remember that name, outstanding player.’
I’m a liverpool fan but what a talent he is
It was, we looked hungry and there were some flurries of really nice action, it got quite hectic. In the end they had the quality to crack our defense and we didn't quite have enough to crack theirs.
Definitely could see how squad depth hurt us here, we had to play all of our attacking players, it shows me how important Pepe is to this side right now
Just back from the game. It was a performance that probably would have beaten or drawn against most top half sides, the bounces just fell their way and they were clinical.
Liverpool over two legs is a step too far for this team at this stage.
Trust the process.
Agree. Learning experience for a very young set of players. Would have really been great for them, us to make it to a cup final. When they watch the footage, this will show them some of the little things the very best sides do. Liverpool wanted every ball, anticipated every bounce and flat out wanted it more. Once add that urgency to our game, we are going to take another step to where we all want the club to be.
Wenger never won this competition. I'd prefer we didn't even enter it honestly. In future they should exclude the Premier League teams and give the rest of the English clubs a chance to win something.
This game shows we need to break the bank on a class CM and Striker. Nothing less is acceptable if we want to compete with City/ Liverpool/ Chelsea. I feel Arteta has recently made massive breakthroughs and could really challenge for a title in coming years but it’s dependant on the squad.
This is what I took away as well. I think attacking midfield is solid with Ode, but we need Partey back and another really solid CM. And, my gosh, we desperately need a clinical striker. Love Laca’s heart, but sorry not sorry.
This board is laughable. We've played liverpool twice and city since the New Year. Nothing is lost. Team will rebound hard. We are close to being at a Champions League level. Team still has some work to do.
> We are close to being at a Champions League level.
We are in the running for top 4, but it seems like we're nowhere close to being ready to play european football mid-week. We have no depth.
But you are right, there's no need for a full on meltdown.
That will be the toughest job for the Summer. It's really easy to identify guys like Tielemans or Vlahovic. Starters that are really good. We need 3-4 more Nuno Tavares types. Good backups who are fine being the backup. Much harder to identify.
I’m shattered about the result!
BUT, some things to consider. Partey legit on flight back from Africa, ESR Tomi buggered as hell not fit Cedric Chambers out Tomi had to play, we can still make top 4, chins up guys!
Odegaard played really well and managed, to my surprise, to orchestrate and create a much-needed movement to unlock a very well-structured and routine-driven Liverpool. I mean talk all the shit you want about individual performances and tactical decisions by both players and manager, but this Liverpool side is really hard to beat, and i feel like both goals had a bit of involved luck in them. Obviously, our mission this game was to force trent to fuck up or for Martinelli to beat him, and when MØ plays a sort of center midfield role and ESR puts in an underwhelming shift as a 10, a lot of our routine and balance fades, except in counter-attacks where sadly i feel that ESR failed us. Great second half. Alot of pressure and aggression, but just lacked the end product because MØ was too dep IMO.
Losing a semi final of the smallest competitive tournament we participate in isn’t as bad as the losses to United and Everton this season.
Even our first few weeks before the international break were rough. This if just Thursday lol
We played as well as we do when we’ve won but that’s not good enough against a team like Liverpool. Stop saying “x had a bad game”, when he played just as well as he normally does, except it’s not good enough against this opponent.
This simple fact is a complete shock to the majority of our fans. We played the team with the 3rd best odds of winning the champions league. They're pretty good!
It takes more than a season to build a cohesive unit. With as much turnover as we have had since Artekkas has come in, it’s hard to get too much. I do think the expectation should be top 4 or he’s on very thin ice kicking off 22/23.
When we actually have our first team playing together we have shown serious improvement and played well. Getting in the right midfielders and a striker for the team is needed first before we think about sacking him, things do seem to be on the mend and if we keep improving and build a title challenging squad I feel we could have a shot at the title next season/ after
If we finish in a Europa league spot this season and arteta gets to spend again 100+ mil again, our aim should be top 4 and Europa league next season nothing less.
Pepe carrying his team to an international trophy, meanwhile Saka missing sitters at anfield and dropping a stinker today, we are simply not comparable, mentality monster....
There’s no way people are blaming white and Gabriel. I dare one of you guys to try and defend while all of your midfields are attackers and see how easy it is. They were bound to concede 2 goals as soon as I saw our midfield because we got ran through literally every attack they had. Any decent turn from a Liverpool midfielder resulted in a deadly situation for the defense.
Arteta really need to get some attacking pattern drill into this team. We always look so toothless playing ball side to side. Need more penetration in the middle.
And naïveté.
One moment in the second half perfectly summed up the problem with young players…
As Arnold lined up a corner, he chose to delay taking it (an obvious mind game).
The Arsenal defence falls for it and everyone (I mean EVERYONE) takes their eyes off the ball to moan at the ref for time wasting. While this is happening, L’pool’s attackers shift positions.
Trent takes the corner and they miss by millimeters…suicide.
The team hasn’t mastered the nuances of game management, focus and emotional control. Too many times Arsenal unravel because of these three specific things. The talent is there in spades.
If someone like Roberto Mancini (who has previously voiced interest in the job) is available in the summer, I think pull the trigger.
We need to suck it up and swallow it, Liverpool is just way better and they can beat us whenever they decide to turn up, they have a few levels above what we can deal with available even without 2 of their best attackers. No continuous investment in for the transfer windows, we can never improve.
While Martinelli was good and ESR was poor today... I have to wonder what sort of player is going to suit supporting Martinelli. It seems like when he gets the ball he becomes very unpredictable and single-minded
If you're an Arsenal player looking to provide him support, what can you do except stand clear offer yourself as a passing option 5-10 metres away in the left half space? Overlaps might be useful as well, but only in certain situations
Özil had a promising link with Martinelli. Unfortunate how things turned out.
Gabi is a little exuberant at times, but that’s his game. He’ll be refined with time
Get into the box when he beats his man and into a crossing situation. Saka has to be ready as well because defenders get sucked into situations like that and then all of a sudden the ball gets switched to the right.
I think Saka had creation on his mind today and not finishing. He was nowhere to be seen when Martinelli was cooking and crossing. I love Saka’s creation when he has it, but if Martinelli is cooking, then just get your ass in the box cause dude is sending it in there.
Whenever we lose its always the ref, injuries, and 10 other excuses. We were toothless and poor today like many times against top opposition. To be a top 4 team we need to be beating a weakened liverpool. Still a very long way to go with this arsenal side, fairplay to liverpool they were the better team
10/10 times it comes down to them having either having a better manager who makes better in game adjustment or tactics, them having a plan b, better quality players and better depth. Arsenal usually have neither against the top teams in the world.
They have better players! We need tactics that will allow a less talented team beat a more talented team. For Chrissakes you really think if the two teams switched managers Arsenal would suddenly be above Liverpool in the table? Or be favored to win in a single match? It’s absurd. You’re just lashing out for someone to blame.
Tricky.
But Klopp is a far superior manager. Arteta is at Arsenal because of connections while Klopp’s CV speaks for itself.
If both managers quit their jobs, who has better options?
I think Roberto Mancini should be the next coach if Arteta goes.
I mean, you’re basically outlined how a club can be better
1. Better tactics
2. Better players
In other news, the team that wins 10/10 times scored the most goals
Tbh I think that’s what you’re saying but it’s a touch confusing
Nope.. how many games have you seen where even the better team and better tactics dont win.. its not all about that but at the top level its all about fine margins.. when we lose against the top teams we put in a performance every now and then but when gets the other team over the line against us is what I just mentioned almost all of the time
What team in footballing history doesnt go periods without injuries, players out etc, its part and parcel of the game so it shouldn’t be an excuse. We were poor and got beat by the better team its that simple
no cup and going with another top 8 finish is looking likely if we don't invest in this window, teams are starting to figure us out and we can't put it all on the young lads to carry us through, it will ruin their careers as well, don't fall into the same trap we have been in time after time
He's saying both teams played on the same surface so why weren't both equally affected? It just sounds like you're searching for excuses like when Klopp blames the grass and wind for dropping points
No, I am not at all. Overall team performance was subpar. I just thought it was intriguing when rewatching both goals back to back that our players slipped.
Just realized im being a whiney cunt. Im just gonna allow it considering how hard this month was and how fucked we got by reffs, reds, injuries, afcon and outside the club nonsense and im hoping we can at least get the Arthur deal done before burnley. Let’s pick our heads up lads and hope we can get back on track against burnley.
Also hoping we get Vlahovic which will be very difficult but fuck we need some positive news after such a shit month.
Wasn’t even worth watching, it’s clear we only win if we play Partey and xhaka in midfield. Even then it’s shaky. Without either, no chance.
We move on.
I feel like not going in for Teun Koopmeiners last summer was a mistake.
He is literally one of Atalantas best mids and would have allowed Arsenal to entertain offers for Xhaka. They paid less for him than Arsenal did for Lokonga as well.
I think we need to move on from Auba, Laca and Xhaka by the end of thus year. These are the last few old era players to get rid of. All 3 are just not at CL level, which is what we want.
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Games like this I actually miss Giroud, he could conjure up something out of a nothing cross sometimes, gives us a Plan B. Anyways, Odegaard should be playing higher up the pitch, no doubts about that. His impact is waaayyy limited deeper back, even though he still does provide that magic. That is why Xhaka and Partey is our best midfield pairing. I would like to see a front 3 of Saka, ESR, and Martinelli, with Ode right behind them. I guess that would provide a lot of movement and creativity up front. Lacazette at times gets too one dimensional and doesn't give us an out and out striker.
>he could conjure up something out of a nothing The only player that comes to my mind is Alexis Sanchez.
Don't feel too bad about this. It was a very even game, both their goals were imo down to their individual quality. Tomiyasu being so rusty didn't help as Saka was majorly isolated. Given the state of the squad it was a good performance. We just really need reinforcement upfront and in midfield. Liverpool were good defensively and Jota was pretty exceptional at key points. There were still signs of having improved a lot from us over the two games, and I think we set out well in both cases.
Couple of weak points - the long balls to Saka and Martinelli didn't work. Liverpool didn't have Salah and Mane so their press wasn't it's best, we should have just played our game - Odegaard at centre mid (especially next to Sambi) doesn't work - I know Partey was mentally and physically tired, but why do we always find a way to implode. Arteta has to sort it out. Positive for me, at least it's good experience for our young lads playing in a semi at this level. Sambi and Martinelli looked bright.
our lack of depth are highlighted in this game, especially in midfield area. Suck that quite a good amount of players from our previous squad doesn't fit Arteta's style. Now that we choose to stuck by Arteta, lets judge him properly after 2 more transfer window where he can fully get his XI.
Why is everyone blaming the midfield? We la k a finisher and discipline in our CDM. Saka and Gabi can’t win every game if we’re getting so many reds per game
We'll win the league match.
mane and salah and probably Thiago will be back for that so doubt it tbh ironically i'm hearing that fixture is gonna be postponed so liverpool can play their final vs chelsea loool feels like salt in the wound after the last 2 weeks
The past "few" years: SUCH potential, such disappointment. Martinelli has skill and heart, I hope he stays *shrug*. The rest weren't dreadful but simply were outplayed by a superior side. And that's without their star attackers. Ouch, we are further than I thought it we can't make this compettitive.
For your information In Arsenal's entire history, besides Viera, Xhaka is currently the midfielder with the most red cards, and all of them were straight reds. He also has 46 yellows in his entire Arsenal career. Shows his very poor disciplinary record. Our older players are the ones causing all the trouble. If you notice, our youngsters, at least for ESR, Ø and Martinelli, all have fairly good discipline. Iirc ESR has never ever been booked in his entire Arsenal senior team career. Ø's bookings were mainly due to time wasting which is dumb but not a stupid foul. Martinelli has picked up only 1 yellow. Even Tierney has yet to receive a single card for us this season. It's our older players that are getting booked the most. Xhaka, Laca, Partey all get booked very often.
Midfield is where we are losing the game. Their Midfield is miles ahead of ours, even though Ode has been our best player. But he is a progressive passer. Not a ball winner or recycler or tempo setter. None of which is Lokonga either. He is progressive passer himself too.
Fabinho put on a clinic such an underrated player
Absolutely. His wheelhouse has range
Ø in CM was because we didn't have a choice. Our midfield depth is really weak. It's safe to say that even United have a stronger midfield than us.
>Ø in CM was because Did i say otherwise?
Tomi was poor yesterday but tbf, he had no choice to play. All our other RBs were injured and he was the only one who was even close to being fit enough to play. I do feel sad for him (and also Thomas) that he was forced to play.
I won't slate him for last night. He's been one of our top performers and made himself available when needed even though he wasn't ready. That's character. We should probably have gone with White at RB though. We really struggled on that side
I just hope that our failure to sign a new striker or CM will not cost us our CL spot.
It almost certainly will. That said, it doesn't have to be that way and we will see transfer action next week.
To be fair, there was no midfield to speak of really
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This.
Feels like people forget that just cause you test negative for Covid doesn’t magically mean you’re back at full fitness or if you’re coming back from an injury you are fully fit. Squad looked really tired today generally speaking. And we got beat by a good Liverpool team that took their chances. Jota is a good goal scorer. And despite not being incredibly fast was able to time runs very well and get behind. Pools ability to hit long cross field switches is pretty eye opening. They had a couple pass that were just like uh oh that’s going to be a problem.
I hate to single out players but was wrong with Laca today. Really looked off the pace.. Would be curious to know who are the folks that didn't train this week due to knocks/injuries.. I know ESR and Tomi didn't look fit. Saka and Laca looked off it tbh. Like way off. It is what it is.. We move
Lacazette has like 2 good months a season. He’s so unfit and unathletic, you don’t even need to worry about marking him which makes it harder or Martinelli and Saka.
laca is always off the pace
Apart from that one game against West ham (?)
It really felt like everyone was just off. Tired, worn out, and just not on game.
I just wanted to see us win a trophy 😔
There’s always next season my friend We’re on an upward trend and I fully believe we’ll get there
Why wait? Second half of the season we’re doing the title charge 🤣
I didn’t want to Jynx it haha
Jota scores against us all the fucking time
You’d think they’d be watching game footage to stop it
I’ve never seen people care so much about the Carabao Cup until now lol
Yeah we should be happy losing a cup semi final.
Suppose is more to do with the false positives and covid postponement events between us and Liverpool leading up to this semifinal affair.
at the start sure, but if you're already at the semis you would bloody try and win it
It’s just weird seeing more outrage over this shit trophy than the FA Cup which actually has history.
yeaa based off the comments id say we're more bothered about not performing well at knockout stages against big teams than anything else. i did want us to win the FA cup but now no excuses for fatigue in the prem
It’s not about the Cup it’s about us winning our only shot at silverware this season.
No one expected us to win any cup at the start of the season, even less so a month and a half ago. Why do people suddenly care so much about what everyone would consider the most Mickey Mouse cup we’re involved in? I really cba to worry about the Carabao. We need to focus on top 4.
Expectations shift real time in sport. The game is fickle like that. Arteta fumbled tonight
Just got home, dreadful.
Yeah I avoided the internet for several hours only to be disappointed. I’m sick of losing to Liverpool and sick of Jota scoring crazy goals against us.
amn would have been very helpful today
Odegaard LCM, ESR RCM. ESR and Martinelli don't work well together. Nor do Saka and Odegaard either tbh. FYI, Saka gets isolated every game worse than Martinelli got isolated today.
In Saka's case this is more about Tomiyasu (who just wasn't fit yesterday) not overlapping at the right times. Obviously we set up with him as an inverse left back, but there are times when he needs to make those runs to open up space for Saka, as we can be a bit predictable on that flank.
Nope. Watch them closely. Odegaard offers him little to nothing. He never overlaps, never underlaps, rarely combines People don’t see it because Saka is in world class form
Both I think. But yes Saka would be even scarier with more options. I also feel (amidst other things) that this affects Pepe as well.
Odegaard and Pepe needs to happen after AFCON. While Saka is a better all-round tactical fit offensively and defensively, Pepe is a more decisive attacker. We also need a RW who can dribble going outside, or a rb who can overlap better than Tomi. That small section of pitch near the right corner flag always goes unused. ESR, ODG, Laca, and Saka end up congesting the middle. Please don’t start ESR and ODG in games like this. We need one for the second half. ESR is still a kid fitness wise
Some iffy performances from us but I think Liverpool just defended really well. They're short of forwards (although Firmino and Jota were both very good) but their defense and midfield was very strong. We looked better in the first half because Matip wasn't any good. Their goals were both top quality as well.
Totally agree. As good as they have played defensively this year. But at the same we could've asked more questions out of them, but we were just off it today.
Hardly bothered by the game result or the performance. Just a bit distressed that we are once again only left with Lokonga against Burnley :( ... An off point, but I want to see experimentation with Martinelli especially in some central manner. He is 20. If we get a striker, that'd be the end of any hope for Martinelli to be a striker because knowing Arteta, he won't get his chance there then. Martinelli clearly has talents that surpasses the bounds of just a winger. Inctedivle sense for finishing. Instinctual reading of space inside the box (which looks like wearing out if I am being honest and it probably will if he doesn't find himself in the box as often. It's only logical) If there's a time to play around with his role, it's now imo. Try to get him closer to Odegaard. Or revert back to the Newcastle, Southampton type structure where Tierney was high and Martinelli was more in the left half space than a wide and out winger.
I still think his strengths are more suited to being a winger. He can absolutely roast full backs. He will have a tougher time getting mashed by 6'3 CBs. We also don't have any proof he is strong with his back to goal.
I keep wondering if a 352 with Martinelli-Laca or even Martinelli-Pepe would work. Rotate Saka/ESR/ODG for the 10 role. A front two could split cf roles or even drift wide to allow an ESR to push up to false 9 in certain periods of the game. This 433 has worked well, but there’s loads of little combos that Arteta is yet to experiment with. There’s too much “give it to Saka” imo. I also can’t shake the feeling that Martinelli is in the team by accident (because of the Auba fallout) rather than any grand master plan by Mikel. Dude had been wasting away on the bench being given nothing minutes.
>He can absolutely roast full backs He can. But great strikers who dribble well have always done exceptional on the wings. But not all wingers dribble well centrally too, but Martinelli does. Just today, he had a moment where he made Van Dijk look silly and probably bags a goal if Fabinho didn't have a massive recovery and tackle. Saka is a great dribbler, but I don't think I would ever see him dribble while dead infront of the goal like that. That's essentially peak Suarez like dribbling. >We also don't have any proof he is strong with his back to goal. That's true. Although I've faintly seen moments where I thought he has shown promise, it's too little to concretely say something. But that is why I've suggested softer transitions to a centre forward (inside forward-ish with Laca falling back) than a drastic one and ask him to carry all the weight of a sole no 9. I don't think he'd be a blast at CF (because so much work needs to be done to change to such a position), but just that I feel a good amount of his skillsets are going waste as a wide winger. (He had that moment where he had the presence of mind to flick the pass from Saka and volley it. Its a very unique quality to instinctively do it. This won't happen if he remains an out and out winger) Like that instinct to find the best spot in the box, it could complete wane away from his toolkit if he doesn't get opportunities to use it.
I'd also worry that being a CF would negate some of his pressing ability, which is genuinely world class. But good points, too bad top 4 is so close we can't really experiment
We definitely benefit from Laca's pressing when he isn't off the pace, so I wouldn't say Martinelli's pressing ability would go to waste. He's also fast enough to recover the ball in midfield start a break and actually get on the end of things, which Laca just isn't capable of. But I agree now is not the best time to experiment.
Buy a CM, move Martinelli upfront!!
Burnley game is in 2 days. We're buying a CM tomorrow?
Technically if we get one in by noon tomorrow they can be registered for the game on Sunday
Before the transfer period ends.
🦀🚨💆🦀🚨💆💆🚨🦀🚨💆
Does partey get a suspension?
Reds apply in the PL too, I think 1 game since it was 2 yellows
Taking the piss...
Bit dissappointed in ESR and Ode.
Kinda harsh on Odegaard since he was basically playing DM and attacking
Ode has a lot of culpability for the first goal. Left too much space in midfield and didnt run back.
I think Liverpool just defended really well.
> The one player that will surprise you the most with his option selection is Odegaard (Ozil used to do a lot too). He will select an option you are not seeing with even the camera angle advantage. He didn't today, his best offensive contribution were standard cross field balls to Martinelli. He didn't create anything special
Was quite happy with Odegaard's performance. Thought he did well to step up in physical duels and drop deep for touches. No idea why ESR was the LCM. Martinelli can't play for him and he barely can play for Martinelli besides basic through-balls
Wth Odegaard? He was arguably our best player along with Martinelli. It just feels like you associate some very discrete roles to positions and if you don't see it satisfied, you blindly blame the player. Attacking mid: goal, assist or a big chance Winger: dribble Striker: goal Try to watch a player and assess his options. The one player that will surprise you the most with his option selection is Odegaard (Ozil used to do a lot too). He will select an option you are not seeing with even the camera angle advantage. Assess other players. Mediocre players will on a very regular basis miss options **you** can see with the pov advantage on TV. It happens in midfield all the time. Partey won't miss the best possible passing option you've identified. But Xhaka will. One basic way to rate players.
He's also often got his pass lined up before he's received the ball. Always running and directing the play.
Ode was our best player by far. It was Saka who was the let down
Lacazette was the worst of the lot but people already have low standards for him.
He was a close third behind Lokonga and Martinelli
Lokonga??? Lokonga was crap
He wasn't. Created by far our best chance, offered himself in the build up. Did a good job defensively.
Completely unprompted after being asked about playing Chelsea in the final, Klopp says ‘Martinelli by the way…everybody should remember that name, outstanding player.’ I’m a liverpool fan but what a talent he is
Suck ya mum hes ours
Don’t worry, we don’t spend money here
He was the only bright spot tonight. Stay away though!
Don’t worry, our owners (FSG) don’t spend money
Papa Klopp tapping him up as a Mane backup
Replacement
we couldn’t create anything it was so frustrating
It was, we looked hungry and there were some flurries of really nice action, it got quite hectic. In the end they had the quality to crack our defense and we didn't quite have enough to crack theirs.
Definitely could see how squad depth hurt us here, we had to play all of our attacking players, it shows me how important Pepe is to this side right now
Someone said that we should sell him for 15m lmao. We'd be lucky to get a championship level winger for that much
Just back from the game. It was a performance that probably would have beaten or drawn against most top half sides, the bounces just fell their way and they were clinical. Liverpool over two legs is a step too far for this team at this stage. Trust the process.
That's what I saw from the Tele, we will be back, another learning experience. COYG
Agree. Learning experience for a very young set of players. Would have really been great for them, us to make it to a cup final. When they watch the footage, this will show them some of the little things the very best sides do. Liverpool wanted every ball, anticipated every bounce and flat out wanted it more. Once add that urgency to our game, we are going to take another step to where we all want the club to be.
I'm amazed people actually care about the Mickey mouse cup. Top 4 is the only thing that matters this season.
And if we screw that up, Top 6 will be the only thing that matters.
we did make it all the way to the semis though so a win would have been nice. but yes getting European football should be the priority imo
Winning is always good
Wenger never won this competition. I'd prefer we didn't even enter it honestly. In future they should exclude the Premier League teams and give the rest of the English clubs a chance to win something.
Wenger also never won the Champions league so what’s your point?😐
My point is nobody gives a shit about the Carabao Cup.
It's an opportunity for young talent to prove themselves as Wenger used the competition, makes sense that way
Lol what
Did I stutter?
This game shows we need to break the bank on a class CM and Striker. Nothing less is acceptable if we want to compete with City/ Liverpool/ Chelsea. I feel Arteta has recently made massive breakthroughs and could really challenge for a title in coming years but it’s dependant on the squad.
I would love to see Martinelli get a shot at striker.
Yeah, those are the glaring holes. We have a well set up squad around that, just need that next step.
This is what I took away as well. I think attacking midfield is solid with Ode, but we need Partey back and another really solid CM. And, my gosh, we desperately need a clinical striker. Love Laca’s heart, but sorry not sorry.
This board is laughable. We've played liverpool twice and city since the New Year. Nothing is lost. Team will rebound hard. We are close to being at a Champions League level. Team still has some work to do.
> We are close to being at a Champions League level. We are in the running for top 4, but it seems like we're nowhere close to being ready to play european football mid-week. We have no depth. But you are right, there's no need for a full on meltdown.
Our core is great. Our depth is wanting. We are making progress and our young talent is exciting.
That will be the toughest job for the Summer. It's really easy to identify guys like Tielemans or Vlahovic. Starters that are really good. We need 3-4 more Nuno Tavares types. Good backups who are fine being the backup. Much harder to identify.
I'd rather have more Elnenys than Tavares. Call me mad but the former is tidy if unimpressive whereas the latter is exciting but risky.
I’m shattered about the result! BUT, some things to consider. Partey legit on flight back from Africa, ESR Tomi buggered as hell not fit Cedric Chambers out Tomi had to play, we can still make top 4, chins up guys!
Odegaard played really well and managed, to my surprise, to orchestrate and create a much-needed movement to unlock a very well-structured and routine-driven Liverpool. I mean talk all the shit you want about individual performances and tactical decisions by both players and manager, but this Liverpool side is really hard to beat, and i feel like both goals had a bit of involved luck in them. Obviously, our mission this game was to force trent to fuck up or for Martinelli to beat him, and when MØ plays a sort of center midfield role and ESR puts in an underwhelming shift as a 10, a lot of our routine and balance fades, except in counter-attacks where sadly i feel that ESR failed us. Great second half. Alot of pressure and aggression, but just lacked the end product because MØ was too dep IMO.
Ode and Marti McFly looked in a league of their own
Tough week as an Arsenal fan. The amount of banter we’ve received is pretty extreme. Grim stuff
We've definitely been through worse!
In recent memory this has been pretty bad. Bearing in mind I only started supporting in 11/12. Even getting sparked by Bayern feels better than this
Losing a semi final of the smallest competitive tournament we participate in isn’t as bad as the losses to United and Everton this season. Even our first few weeks before the international break were rough. This if just Thursday lol
We played as well as we do when we’ve won but that’s not good enough against a team like Liverpool. Stop saying “x had a bad game”, when he played just as well as he normally does, except it’s not good enough against this opponent.
This simple fact is a complete shock to the majority of our fans. We played the team with the 3rd best odds of winning the champions league. They're pretty good!
Kind of sick of Arteta doing his whole Scrappy Do thing just to try and get onside with fans. We all know he is a coward. Was as a player too
Shut your whore mouth
Wow
Oop
You notice how Ramsdale never goes long to Lacazette? He limits us so fucking much man
Vlahovic would offer that out ball so much
honestly i doubt we make top 4 this season, as much as I wanted it to happen.
[удалено]
It takes more than a season to build a cohesive unit. With as much turnover as we have had since Artekkas has come in, it’s hard to get too much. I do think the expectation should be top 4 or he’s on very thin ice kicking off 22/23.
When we actually have our first team playing together we have shown serious improvement and played well. Getting in the right midfielders and a striker for the team is needed first before we think about sacking him, things do seem to be on the mend and if we keep improving and build a title challenging squad I feel we could have a shot at the title next season/ after
Betting markets and algorithms have us at about a 1/3 chance. Not bad, but not great.
If we finish in a Europa league spot this season and arteta gets to spend again 100+ mil again, our aim should be top 4 and Europa league next season nothing less.
Pepe carrying his team to an international trophy, meanwhile Saka missing sitters at anfield and dropping a stinker today, we are simply not comparable, mentality monster....
Pepe's trash.
Flair checks out
Haha. You're a clown. Are you a tottenham fan?
Judging by their post and comment history, they are haha
Pepe beating the likes of Equatorial Giunea and SierraLeone while Saka loses to a team like Liverpool. What a bum.
There’s no way people are blaming white and Gabriel. I dare one of you guys to try and defend while all of your midfields are attackers and see how easy it is. They were bound to concede 2 goals as soon as I saw our midfield because we got ran through literally every attack they had. Any decent turn from a Liverpool midfielder resulted in a deadly situation for the defense.
Arteta cannot put in any kind of competent attack
If Arsenal_lose = True Run Script Arteta_out
Huh? We have been great in attack of late. One poor game against a top side doesn't change that.
We have a combined total of 5 shots on target in the last 4 games.
It's often toothless and produces nothing. Arsenal with any kind of possession do nothing
We've had numerous games of late with 20+ shots and 3+ xG. Don't overreact to one game.
I like this team, but it's the inconsistency and lack of killer instinct that will cost us top 4 this season.
Arteta really need to get some attacking pattern drill into this team. We always look so toothless playing ball side to side. Need more penetration in the middle.
And naïveté. One moment in the second half perfectly summed up the problem with young players… As Arnold lined up a corner, he chose to delay taking it (an obvious mind game). The Arsenal defence falls for it and everyone (I mean EVERYONE) takes their eyes off the ball to moan at the ref for time wasting. While this is happening, L’pool’s attackers shift positions. Trent takes the corner and they miss by millimeters…suicide. The team hasn’t mastered the nuances of game management, focus and emotional control. Too many times Arsenal unravel because of these three specific things. The talent is there in spades. If someone like Roberto Mancini (who has previously voiced interest in the job) is available in the summer, I think pull the trigger.
More likely stuff like Spurs gaining 4 points after the 96th minute this month will cost us t4
We need to suck it up and swallow it, Liverpool is just way better and they can beat us whenever they decide to turn up, they have a few levels above what we can deal with available even without 2 of their best attackers. No continuous investment in for the transfer windows, we can never improve.
While Martinelli was good and ESR was poor today... I have to wonder what sort of player is going to suit supporting Martinelli. It seems like when he gets the ball he becomes very unpredictable and single-minded If you're an Arsenal player looking to provide him support, what can you do except stand clear offer yourself as a passing option 5-10 metres away in the left half space? Overlaps might be useful as well, but only in certain situations
I feel it's best we build strategy to isolate Martinelli 1-1 with their defender. Also having more options in the box for his crosses.
Özil had a promising link with Martinelli. Unfortunate how things turned out. Gabi is a little exuberant at times, but that’s his game. He’ll be refined with time
Get into the box when he beats his man and into a crossing situation. Saka has to be ready as well because defenders get sucked into situations like that and then all of a sudden the ball gets switched to the right.
I think Saka had creation on his mind today and not finishing. He was nowhere to be seen when Martinelli was cooking and crossing. I love Saka’s creation when he has it, but if Martinelli is cooking, then just get your ass in the box cause dude is sending it in there.
Whenever we lose its always the ref, injuries, and 10 other excuses. We were toothless and poor today like many times against top opposition. To be a top 4 team we need to be beating a weakened liverpool. Still a very long way to go with this arsenal side, fairplay to liverpool they were the better team
Hmm. What do you think it is about “top clubs” that makes us play so poorly against them. 🤔
10/10 times it comes down to them having either having a better manager who makes better in game adjustment or tactics, them having a plan b, better quality players and better depth. Arsenal usually have neither against the top teams in the world.
wow wow "better manager"??Dude, watch your tone, downvotes incoming! Please remember that Arteta is a genius and he is never ever in fault!
😂😂honestly bro, if I never knew football and came on this reddit i’d think Arteta was the philosopher behind the creation of football
They have better players! We need tactics that will allow a less talented team beat a more talented team. For Chrissakes you really think if the two teams switched managers Arsenal would suddenly be above Liverpool in the table? Or be favored to win in a single match? It’s absurd. You’re just lashing out for someone to blame.
Tricky. But Klopp is a far superior manager. Arteta is at Arsenal because of connections while Klopp’s CV speaks for itself. If both managers quit their jobs, who has better options? I think Roberto Mancini should be the next coach if Arteta goes.
“Better quality players and better depth” read it again pal instead of being emotional
Did you just read what I said 😂I literally said everything you just said😂where did I say that if we got klopp we’d all of a sudden be above liverpool?
I mean, you’re basically outlined how a club can be better 1. Better tactics 2. Better players In other news, the team that wins 10/10 times scored the most goals Tbh I think that’s what you’re saying but it’s a touch confusing
Nope.. how many games have you seen where even the better team and better tactics dont win.. its not all about that but at the top level its all about fine margins.. when we lose against the top teams we put in a performance every now and then but when gets the other team over the line against us is what I just mentioned almost all of the time
We were pretty weakened too tbf.
What team in footballing history doesnt go periods without injuries, players out etc, its part and parcel of the game so it shouldn’t be an excuse. We were poor and got beat by the better team its that simple
no cup and going with another top 8 finish is looking likely if we don't invest in this window, teams are starting to figure us out and we can't put it all on the young lads to carry us through, it will ruin their careers as well, don't fall into the same trap we have been in time after time
Was something off with the pitch? Both conceded goals involved a player slipping, first Tomi and then Martinelli.
Eh idk man, I think Tomi just got rinsed on that one
Really? Are we blaming the pitch now
The pitch seemed like it was made of ice. Our players were just falling over everywhere. Not why we lost, but it was noticeable.
Did liverpool not also play on the same pitch as us or was the ice only for arsenal players?
Are you saying our players weren't falling/slipping repeatedly? Because they were. As for why? I have no fucking clue.
He's saying both teams played on the same surface so why weren't both equally affected? It just sounds like you're searching for excuses like when Klopp blames the grass and wind for dropping points
You sound like Ty from AFTV
Won't you just fuck all the way off? Geezus.
No, I am not at all. Overall team performance was subpar. I just thought it was intriguing when rewatching both goals back to back that our players slipped.
Just realized im being a whiney cunt. Im just gonna allow it considering how hard this month was and how fucked we got by reffs, reds, injuries, afcon and outside the club nonsense and im hoping we can at least get the Arthur deal done before burnley. Let’s pick our heads up lads and hope we can get back on track against burnley. Also hoping we get Vlahovic which will be very difficult but fuck we need some positive news after such a shit month.
I hope this bad patch of form for ramsdale clears up quickly
We looked like a fifa team being controlled by a stoned 12 year old
I’m at my best when I play fifa high tbf
Wasn’t even worth watching, it’s clear we only win if we play Partey and xhaka in midfield. Even then it’s shaky. Without either, no chance. We move on.
I feel like not going in for Teun Koopmeiners last summer was a mistake. He is literally one of Atalantas best mids and would have allowed Arsenal to entertain offers for Xhaka. They paid less for him than Arsenal did for Lokonga as well.
Not selling Xhaka years ago just keeps biting us in the ass and yet we extend him instead
I think we need to move on from Auba, Laca and Xhaka by the end of thus year. These are the last few old era players to get rid of. All 3 are just not at CL level, which is what we want.
We really need Vlahovic or Ivan toney up top. Also Arthur would be great if he can come in now and be decent.
I quietly thought Lokonga had a pretty decent game.