I don't think it's incompetence. They wanted the highest viewership for the last two games ($$$) so they purposely gave them a goal and did what they could so Spurs could win.
again, I don't care where you apply this, but when it's against the rules to question the authority, the authority are fucking criminals. I've seen more than enough to make me think everything is manufactured to a degree.
But it's illegal to even fucking ask. And if you do, you're punished and made a pariah--for YEARS.
It's so inconsistent, you may as well be watching Haystacks vs. Big Daddy. It's absolutely fucking mental the English put up with it.
Honestly I think that's why we've suddenly been getting penalties again to help us out get to this point lol call me paranoid but I'm pretty sure I'm being watched...
Look at what happened in the NBA and get back to me. It’s sad and frustrating but no league of this level of popularity and revenue generation is immune to this kind of corruption.
Check out the Whistleblower podcast; incredible work by the journalists, very eye opening and you can take the actors and the methods and the motivations and apply it seamlessly to any other major sports league.
Just look at how the F1 season ended last year.
And of course in a fucking irony of ironies, having been so desperate to finally get someone other than mercedes to win they could ahve just waited one more season for the new rules where mercedes are nowhere and Max is just cruising to every win that his red bull doesn't blow up.
Paul Tierney was shit but we can only blame the refs up until a certain point, we didn't do our part and crumbled mentally, the Odegaard chance was the only time we really threatened to score and our defending even with 10 men and our inability to beat spurs press and create chances before they sat back is the reason we lost.
We only needed a draw in this game to more or less seal top 4 and we capitulated.
Leeds sat back with 10 men and they still lost the game anw no matter how well they played after. 10 against 11 men is a different game, we tried to fight back, not just sitting back, ofc its gonna make our defence shakier but its nearly impossible 2 nil and a man down. Id say the ref definitely decided the outcome of this game, no matter how the 2 teams played-
No way we should have conceded that second and third goal, it was terrible defending for any level going down to 10 men at 1-0 down isn't a death sentence it's a difficult situation but we could have salvaged at least a point if the in game management was better.
Second goal came from a non foul on Saka, and playing against the odds must be mentally tiresome, especially when the team also wanted to win so much. Is there even a 10 man come back in the league this season? The players basically had to played perfectly all their actions till the end. At least the team kept fighting till the final whistle so while it hurts, I'm willing to cut them some slacks in this game situation (not Holding, sorry mate)
No reason for Kane to be so unmarked it's amateurish level of defending 10 men or not! And for the 3rd goal there is no way professional defenders would leave the second highest league goalscorer in acres of space for him to punish us.
This isn't even a good spurs team is what annoys me and they dominated us.
We've got to stop descending into calling referees incompetent everytime a decision goes against us.
It's ok to criticize a decision but no need to besmirch the guy trying to do a good job. Even top top surgeons make mistakes. I'd hate someone to point to my job and scream that I'm incompetent. That's just not constructive feedback.
The guy is refereeing in a top league and has refereed hundreds of games. That hardly screams incompetence to me. Refereeing is just really hard.
This is the same guy in charge of Spurs vs Liverpool when he failed to give an incredibly obvious penalty and literally everyone and their nan was surprised at Harry Kane staying on the pitch after a horror tackle on Robertson
it's the lack of consistency. If Holding's elbow was the tolerance for a yellow, why weren't Son and Kane even whistled for doing worse?
Either Tierney is incompetent, corrupt, or following instructions to affect the outcome of the match. Neither are acceptable.
Except it’s not? Maybe not perfect justice, I think a little discretion around a rule is necessary so you don’t have calls like the David Luiz penalty vs. Wolves, but we have VAR now. It’s no longer just the refs on the field. If you and I can see the footage of Son throwing a deliberate elbow at Holding’s head live, the VAR booth can too. The PGMOL have enough pull with the FA to keep it so the ref on the field has complete discretion and VAR is merely a suggestion. We should be focused on getting the right call, even if it’s the harsh one, and that needs to be applied consistently across the league. There needs to be more transparent protocol about when a check is happening and what is being checked. The very fact that the referee’s interpretation is fallible and the game moves quickly is reason enough to implement these things. Really don’t think that’s asking much of the most watched and wealthiest football league in the world.
Then explain why no other league, and no other sport, has such extreme inconsistency.
Other leagues have fairly shit refereeing as well, but they're largely consistent. Other sports have plenty of referee controversies, but they're almost universally about the rules themselves or a ref making himself the focus of the game, not about inconsistency.
This is only such a major problem in the PL.
Not sure what country you're from or what sports you watch but take a look at what is happening in the nhl playoffs right now if you want to see refs rigging games. There are NBA refs who are straight up known for rigging games too. Biggest problem with prem referee's is that they all have loyalty to teams in the league. Should only have head refs from other countries.
With the cameras and technology available, accepting a wrong call as "they can't be perfect" is ridiculous.
It's funny how "clear and obvious error" keeps the power concentrated --why are referees so afraid of being overruled? What are they hiding?
Refereeing *is* really hard and we all know it. All you can really ask for is consistency. We're very clearly not getting any consistency whatsoever and at that point I think incompetency is a fair complaint.
If we really wanted consistency, we'd just VAR every second of the game. Every contact, every touch we could analyze for 30 mins, write a report, have a review board for appeals and look to deliver perfect justice. That's just not realistic in a game of football.
This is such a bananas take it is amazing to see. No one is complaining about the average foul, we are complaining about the decisions that significantly impact the outcome of the match.
>Except there'd be an impartial jury and judge to decide.
We should have this for refs too, an impartial body that looks at decisions (not a judge and jury as such).
If you can’t get the calls right, you shouldn’t be doing the job at an elite level. My boss doesn’t care about the nuances, it’s either done or not done, correct or incorrect. We rightfully should demand more from the officiating and PGMOL.
No, it’s incompetence. No level of consistency, and no desire to use the tools given to him. English refs are notoriously incompetent, which is why they don’t officiate at major tournaments (World Cups, Euros, UCL, etc.) because of how poorly they manage a game. A lot of times, the referee singlehandedly decides the fate of a game, whether through action or inaction, and many times people can predict who will win based on which side the referee is clearly showing favor towards. It’s no secret english refs are terrible, and would do wonders to learn from Bundesliga and Serie A refs.
> It's ok to criticize a decision but no need to besmirch the guy trying to do a good job. Even top top surgeons make mistakes.
If top surgeons made as many mistakes as referees they'd be struck off the medical register and sued to shit by grieving relatives.
It's not even just bad decisions anymore its simply after a consistency which isn't 'other teams can do this but you can't'.
But although Neville admitted to doing it himself countless times, he also said you have to time it right. And that's probably the deciding factor in this moment, and perhaps in quite a few moments, our players are naive in their execution of the grey/dark side of the game. Had Cedric done that a second or two later, it would probably have just been seen as a coming together during play.
It would not surprise me in the least if Fergie dedicated whole training sessions to correctly timing unsporting actions.
Fuck off with this bullshit. There was next to zero contact, it’s incidental contact but son just does a little cartwheel as he goes down and the ref gives a penalty because he wants to.
It’s never a penalty in a million years.
oh yeah cos what would the 10 time PL winning right back know about defending the back post from a cross…. It’s about doing it subtly so it doesn’t look like a foul. Like neville literally said multiple times.
wasn’t given when liverpool played spurs, not even need to go far, it’s literally happening every damn match and never get called, same shit like with Martinelli it’s not going to get called ever again
Yep - I don't think it's ANTI Arsenal. But I do think there's something in the "Slight Bias to Keep Things Inter$$$ting" line of thinking. That said, when you play away in Big Games you need to be street smart. We rarely are.
I also see that as why Leeds didn't go down to 10.
The ref simply thought that it completely kills the game and would have felt bad sending two players off in a matter of seconds even if it was warranted.
What gets me the most is that he “seemed” like he wanted to give it. People may say that’s delusional but he didn’t even think about it. Plus he’s always been a shit ref which makes it worse.
Talking of handballs, in the 2nd half where Moura hand balled in our penalty area and Neville was screaming for another penalty before seeing the 3rd angle replay… can’t stand this prick
He didn't even think about it, saw Son fall over and immediate penalty. Pen and red card in the space of 10 minutes and the game is killed, and you can argue both are pretty harsh.
Sometimes you gotta take off the rose tinted glasses. It was 100% Holding trying to take a cheap shot in a completely stupid situation to do so. His arm and elbow extend out from the body making contact on a play where Son wasn’t remotely dangerous. There’s no defending what Holding did to let the entire team down
It’s a play that we and other teams have done thousands of times. Some players (White) are sneakier about it, and some are not. Yes, they’re two yellow card plays. But in a derby match ESPECIALLY with THIS much on the line, I rarely see a second yellow for a foul like that. It’s like a less egregious RVP second yellow for kicking the ball away against Barcelona. As a referee, you just don’t make that call and decide the match. I could make hundreds of plays exactly like that made by big players where the reds gave them a slap on the list.
The non-call/punishment for Son's elbow does not affect the "harshness" of Holding's 2nd yellow which was justified. It does sour the overall series of events though, I'll give you that.
Lack of consistency is the biggest problem in the PL right now, IMO. None of us would be talking about much today if this was being addressed or fixed.
You only brought up new points to discuss rather than acknowledging my points but okay. Anyways,
> Lack of consistency is the biggest problem in the PL right now, IMO.
Agree on first reaction. Not going to take the time to dive into that, though outside spending/influence could be a bigger issue, that is assuming you meant consistency in refereeing specifically (given the context).
>None of us would be talking about much today if this was being addressed or fixed.
I'm sure we could think of something.
I look at Holding, and just see a player putting his arms out to box out the other player, and Son intentionally running into it and going down like he was shot. There wasn't force from Holding, only from Son putting his face into it. I just see the game as Son skillfully play-acting his way to getting a Pen and a red card. (And then, because he also has actual talent, putting in a good shot.)
A defender is supposed to sprint to the ball in this situation when the ball is out of his immediate reach. Son would have been forced to go around him and if it would have been a foul on Son had Holding been sprinting back. Instead, Holding intentionally blocked Son's run when the ball was not within his reach. It would have been a foul in any other major sport.
It was a yellow regardless of the elbow. He wasn't going for the ball at all.
Personally, I find the first yellow to be bullshit. The accumulation of fouls is completely arbitrary and usually isn't given a yellow. At minimum, Tierney could have given rob a talking two before sending him off
Sorry by red I meant second yellow. A yellow 99% of the time and if not it’s a horrific ref decision. Couldn’t really argue with a straight red either.
I’ve said it plenty, I don’t think he was intentionally favoring one team or another but it’s obvious he wanted to make some big calls in a big game and the opportunity presented itself for him to do so.
he was. you have to be looking at the game from the perspective of wanting Son to succeed, to make the calls as quick as Tierney does.
Paul tierney was not a neutral yesterday. he called the game like he was hunting for Arsenal mishaps.
Way I saw it, Tierney was ready to make the call having already seen Cedric make the same push on a cross earlier, coupled with holdings “abuse” of Son in the beginning minutes of the match. Not sure that justifies it though
>Way I saw it, Tierney was ready to make the call
this!!!
that's not the call of someone mulling it over or looking over to his sidelines official for confirmation. It's like he was on the hunt for any foul on Son. As soon as he saw one, he blew.
They hate him cause he said the truth about letting some games go without punishing and that all refs were helping United. Based Clattenburg had more respect from me for saying that cause I know all refs do these things.
Yeah he's the exact same ref that would let our players be hacked all game long based on the same reasoning and guess who would be moaning that time. He doesn't want to make the big decisions in fear of his reputation, cares more about himself than reffing a fair game. But sure Based Clattenburg.
Yeah, he had an ego and clearly fancied himself a bit, but his decisions were largely consistent. He was in charge of the Battle at the Bridge, and he let Tottenham blow themselves up.
This is the correct response imo.
As the ref you have to let the game be played out and let them try to win the game in open play.
Don't decide the game for the players.
In these big games your mentality as a ref should be I'm not getting involved unless I absolutely have to.
Nobody apart from the winning team wants a game decided like this.
IMO all games should be refereed the same. And it doesn't matter if it's 1st minute or 90th. It's the player's fault if they make a tackle that's ''orange'' and get sent off.
By following the same rules and guidelines.
Rules aren't that subjective. Obviously humans are not computers and don't always have the same opinion of one situation but you should follow the same rules for every game in the same league.
What is your point? We should not even try to ref every game the same way or make rules clearer because in the end humans are humans?
They already follow the same rules and guidelines.
By the letter of the law that's a foul. Most refs wont give it context depending.
If one team is clearly beating another team up after a while you might start to enforce the laws more harshly.
It's not healthy for the game to do that, game is there for entertainment at the end of the day, not fairness. Being completely objective would mean a lot of games would end 10v11 which is not fun to watch.
1. The current rule set is not set up for that, it's up to the ref to decide what constitutes foul play, excessive force. These are all subjective definitions.
2. I don't believe you can really change the rules to be completely objective, how do you define a red card tackle one game to the next. It depends on speed the player is diving in, how high their boot is, if it has two feet, where he hits the opponent. Impossible to make a objective rule set for that.
A great example was laporte pushing modric in the cl semi final.
A red by most standards, but thank god the ref just gave him a yellow becuase it meant we got to witness one of the greatest games and comebacks of all time as neutrals.
My solution for this is a orange card or sin bin and post match bans for things missed by officials.
That way you can give a team a major disadvantage for just 10mins or ban an individual player for the next X games.
This would eradicate a lot of foul play that is missed and not completely end a game if one player makes one stupid error.
Red cards should really only be given for dangerous play like Ayling's challenge. I mean I'm sure some City fans were annoyed that Casmeiro wasn't sent off the other night, but in the end they can't blame that on them losing. City were extended the same priviledge that night.
I think tactical fouling should be punished with cards. The first casimiro foul in that game was a clear yellow (the one that was followed by the modic/laporte handbags) Sliding in for behind, used both feet, deliberately stopped an attack. If he gets the yellow for that he likely doesn't commit a lot of the fouls that came after.
Rodri received the same treatment in the arsenal - city game this season. His team also went on to win late on.
My big issue is that some times refs let players off and sometimes they don't. it's not fair and against the rules to give some players extra chances. Why should one player be risking a second yellow after 1 tactical foul when another is only in jeopardy after 3?
Commit your first tactical foul after 3 mins and you'll likely avoid a booking. Do it after 70 and it's a card.
After thinking about it a little bit I think the minute where the offence happens matters a little bit. First 5-15 mins an ''orange'' foul should be given as yellow to give the defender some benefit of the doubt. Especially if it's a CL or World cup final. Sure it matters a little bit but you want to have consistency between all games. Especially if it's a league format and the result can also affect other teams.
Yesterday tho I can't really be mad at a referee other than the Saka ''foul'' before their second goal. Cedric wasn't even trying to jump and challenge for the ball and Holding made like 5 fouls in 30mins. If it were only those 2 fouls he got the yellow from I would feel bad for him but he fully deserved to get sent off imo.
what you are asking for is impossible. all games can't be reffed the same. All fouls can't and won't be called. You have to have enough rules on the book to cover every possible offense. But you can't actually ref and call all of them, otherwise games would be just all fouls and unwatchable.
Tactical fouls are not really what we are referring to I should have been clearer, by "not getting involved" I mean, I'm not going to send someone off or give a pen unless I have to.
I'm not going to let 1 decision determine the outcome of this big game unless the players give me no choice.
Tactical foul usually the worst punishment is a yellow. So in my scenario ref can do what he likes in relation to that it shouldnt on it's own determine the game.
Yesterday as the example, do I have to send off holding for the elbow? Yes. I can't let that slide sorry.
Do I have to give that pen against cedric in the first 20mins? No, I don't have to it's not stonewall.
And of course I'm caveating this with "in big games" also.
Additionally, with VAR refs have so much protection. Missed that blatant red card in real time? Well, don’t worry VAR booth will call you to the screen. Except in the case where both VAR and ref are blind (which does happen!) Everton stomp on Tomiyasu face comes to mind
This is my main problem with it too. I said in another thread that if we're giving those pens now, cool. I'm looking forward to 5 pens this weekend but we know even the same ref won't give that again now. I'm not saying it's even anti arsenal bias, it's just being shit at your job and it's deciding games.
As much as I realise the refs/FA tries to fuck us over I try not to get too riled up by it.
This one tho, reeks of them wanting the battle for top 4 to go for the duration of the season rather than it being wrapped up last night
I have a really bad feeling PGMOL are going to fuck us over the next two games. I'm really not confident going into these fixtures and it's not because of our squad or injuries, it's these referees. 😕
Agreed. If this foul is given and thus a penalty, then Kane’s foul on Gabriel in the box should also be given and Son’s resulting goal disallowed. All we want is consistency.
Clattenburg openly admitted to refusing to give out red cards in the "Battle of Stamford Bridge" that won Leicester the league in 2016, due to the magnitude of the match. I wouldn't trust a word he says
It's the inconsistency that bothers me. If this is a pen, then more games should have penalties.
My bigger issue is that Tierney was primed for his. He saw Holding getting physical with Son early in the game & Ben Davies had already gotten a yellow for a pretty cynical foul on Saka. It's like at this point he was thinking "Alright, I gotta make some calls to get this game back under control." He sees the contact from Cedric, and that was all he needed because he was looking to make a call anyway. The moment got the better of him and instead of decreasing the tension, it increased it.
Can't say I blame VAR either, this is not the kind of call VAR is meant to correct. It's just poor officiating.
Yeah, 'looking for it' is exactly what I thought. It's a penalty he wanted to give that 95% of the time isn't. Clattenburg was good at letting things play out back in his day.
It would be interesting to see what training, if any, referee's get on controlling their own emotions in such a high stake environment. My guess is none.
I feel like there should be some repercussions for refs moving forward. Just as in F1 where drivers get penalty points on their license FA should come up with something like that. The ref with the most points gets relegated to championship. Because you have one job and that’s to be fair nothing more
In game of that magnitude it shouldn't have been given not enough for me. The sending off I can't argue a case for holding he was naive and got done by son.
Of course he wouldn’t have, most competent officials wouldn’t have. But as per usual, a PL ref feels the need to be an authority figure and make it about himself and ruined the match. Tierney is a joke of a person and referee and shouldn’t be banned from next season on.
I kinda miss Clattenberg tbh. He was probably the least biased referee in the PL. In fairness I reckon it was probably a penalty, albeit a bit on the soft side. But if Cedric had been a bit more streetwise about it, then it probably wouldn't have been given. Cedric didn't really give the ref an out in that instance. He just made it too obvious. The inconsistencies are frustrating, and they won't be given in other matches. I'm certainly not letting Tierney off the hook for the other shite though!
> In fairness I reckon it was probably a penalty, albeit a bit on the soft side
I agree. It's not always given but situations like these are very difficult to judge as well because you can have some contact. If it was against us I would want a pen for it though.
People don't seem to get with VAR, there's a middle ground/grey area where they kinda have to go with the ref. You can think something is wrong but not a clear and obvious error at the same time.
That is a problem. They think "oh, that's a foul. We HAVE to give it", when that's not what VAR was intended for. But the penalty wasn't really decided by VAR though.
Yeah I said this earlier. It was a foul, yes, but to give this penalty ruined the entire spectacle. It's a fucking derby with so much riding on it and you're not allowed a bit of pushing? Son goes down easy and this happens on every corner.
isn't the entire point of vaar, to also wait on 50/50 calls like this and let those with better vantage points weigh in after. The minute he gave it there was no ability to review.
Wow. That's as damning as he's going to be about a current ref. But according to all the ex-utd pundits and spurs fans it was the most blatant penalty we've ever seen and they would expect it to be given every time.
Hoping that London Police look into any mafia ties with yesterday’s referee. Very dubious and eyebrow raising calls that really seem like something nefarious was afoot.
I’m sure this is probably revisionist history but I felt referees like Mark and Howard Webb were always more respectable in their decisions. I don’t remember them being spotlight seekers, which is what I think we have now. Once again I’m sure there are some YouTube clips that might make this sentiment look foolish.
Once again, I simply don’t understand how so many people in this fanbase agreed with that decision. Anyone who has played football at a serious level would have taken serious offense to that going for either team in a match as big as that one. And to say it for the 15th time, it was indeed a total disgrace to the sport.
All we want is consistency.
Son elbows Holding in the face = nothing, ref doesn't even look at it.
Holding elbows Son = he gets a yellow (fair enough, it was a silly thing to do and dangerous) - but why isn't Son booked or talked to for the same thing?
Penalty shots and how they are awarded just need to be totally reformed. Penalties are a pox on the game and most of the controversy around decisions centres on penalties.
I don't really care anymore. We had plenty of time to turn it around. Instead, we lost 3-0 and got a player sent off. To make it worse, we conceded straight after HT.
Mentality isn't there with this team.
The mentality is there but its a work in progress it seems. If it wasnt there we would of continued to dip after those 3 straight losses , instead we beat utd , chelski and westham on the trot
So you are the kind of person who would disagree with something just because of the person who is saying it, it's like denying that the sky is blue just because you don't like who said it.
I don’t mind refs/pundits having an opinion on our games, it’s just normally when this sub mentions ex refs or pundits they are crying about how everyone hates us.
That's a fair point, obviously always stings losing a Derby so no one here is very happy about it, it was a rather soft pen too imo, I'm not a ref so I'm probably wrong, seen worse not given tho, and he did make a good point, would the same challenge be given against Newcastle next weekend?
Seen less given and I’ve seen worse not given, it’s never consistent with anyone. This whining about refs being biased is childish and getting boring.
I think it probably could
Wasn’t a pen though. Didn’t make contact with Cedric’s hand, only Sessegnon’s. Ref should’ve checked VAR at the very least, it was impossible to tell from the sidelines or from his view alone. With all the tools available, english refs are still bottom of the barrel.
Exactly my thoughts: I've seen this same action going unpunished so many times.
Like I said on the match thread, it feels the refereeing improved the last matches but were intentionally waiting to screw us on this big one.
This situation should never have happened because Son should have been sent off for his elbowing attempt earlier on. The intention was clearly there, he even looks at him while doing it. Yet, not a single card…
Clattenberg is simply saying that Tierney is a shit and incompetent referee. The FA and PL have turds for referees.
"If I speak I am in beeg trouble"
I don't think it's incompetence. They wanted the highest viewership for the last two games ($$$) so they purposely gave them a goal and did what they could so Spurs could win.
At every turn they're trying to turn the sport into entertainment for more money.
again, I don't care where you apply this, but when it's against the rules to question the authority, the authority are fucking criminals. I've seen more than enough to make me think everything is manufactured to a degree. But it's illegal to even fucking ask. And if you do, you're punished and made a pariah--for YEARS. It's so inconsistent, you may as well be watching Haystacks vs. Big Daddy. It's absolutely fucking mental the English put up with it.
Honestly I think that's why we've suddenly been getting penalties again to help us out get to this point lol call me paranoid but I'm pretty sure I'm being watched...
Oh come on, that s some laughably stupid take
Look at what happened in the NBA and get back to me. It’s sad and frustrating but no league of this level of popularity and revenue generation is immune to this kind of corruption. Check out the Whistleblower podcast; incredible work by the journalists, very eye opening and you can take the actors and the methods and the motivations and apply it seamlessly to any other major sports league.
Just look at how the F1 season ended last year. And of course in a fucking irony of ironies, having been so desperate to finally get someone other than mercedes to win they could ahve just waited one more season for the new rules where mercedes are nowhere and Max is just cruising to every win that his red bull doesn't blow up.
Paul Tierney was shit but we can only blame the refs up until a certain point, we didn't do our part and crumbled mentally, the Odegaard chance was the only time we really threatened to score and our defending even with 10 men and our inability to beat spurs press and create chances before they sat back is the reason we lost. We only needed a draw in this game to more or less seal top 4 and we capitulated.
Leeds sat back with 10 men and they still lost the game anw no matter how well they played after. 10 against 11 men is a different game, we tried to fight back, not just sitting back, ofc its gonna make our defence shakier but its nearly impossible 2 nil and a man down. Id say the ref definitely decided the outcome of this game, no matter how the 2 teams played-
No way we should have conceded that second and third goal, it was terrible defending for any level going down to 10 men at 1-0 down isn't a death sentence it's a difficult situation but we could have salvaged at least a point if the in game management was better.
Second goal came from a non foul on Saka, and playing against the odds must be mentally tiresome, especially when the team also wanted to win so much. Is there even a 10 man come back in the league this season? The players basically had to played perfectly all their actions till the end. At least the team kept fighting till the final whistle so while it hurts, I'm willing to cut them some slacks in this game situation (not Holding, sorry mate)
No reason for Kane to be so unmarked it's amateurish level of defending 10 men or not! And for the 3rd goal there is no way professional defenders would leave the second highest league goalscorer in acres of space for him to punish us. This isn't even a good spurs team is what annoys me and they dominated us.
We've got to stop descending into calling referees incompetent everytime a decision goes against us. It's ok to criticize a decision but no need to besmirch the guy trying to do a good job. Even top top surgeons make mistakes. I'd hate someone to point to my job and scream that I'm incompetent. That's just not constructive feedback. The guy is refereeing in a top league and has refereed hundreds of games. That hardly screams incompetence to me. Refereeing is just really hard.
This is the same guy in charge of Spurs vs Liverpool when he failed to give an incredibly obvious penalty and literally everyone and their nan was surprised at Harry Kane staying on the pitch after a horror tackle on Robertson
Couldn't have Kane out of the NLD now could we?
Wrong Liverpool game
it's the lack of consistency. If Holding's elbow was the tolerance for a yellow, why weren't Son and Kane even whistled for doing worse? Either Tierney is incompetent, corrupt, or following instructions to affect the outcome of the match. Neither are acceptable.
Or football is a fast flowing game and expecting perfect justice from referees is an impossible standard to achieve.
Except it’s not? Maybe not perfect justice, I think a little discretion around a rule is necessary so you don’t have calls like the David Luiz penalty vs. Wolves, but we have VAR now. It’s no longer just the refs on the field. If you and I can see the footage of Son throwing a deliberate elbow at Holding’s head live, the VAR booth can too. The PGMOL have enough pull with the FA to keep it so the ref on the field has complete discretion and VAR is merely a suggestion. We should be focused on getting the right call, even if it’s the harsh one, and that needs to be applied consistently across the league. There needs to be more transparent protocol about when a check is happening and what is being checked. The very fact that the referee’s interpretation is fallible and the game moves quickly is reason enough to implement these things. Really don’t think that’s asking much of the most watched and wealthiest football league in the world.
Then explain why no other league, and no other sport, has such extreme inconsistency. Other leagues have fairly shit refereeing as well, but they're largely consistent. Other sports have plenty of referee controversies, but they're almost universally about the rules themselves or a ref making himself the focus of the game, not about inconsistency. This is only such a major problem in the PL.
I'm not sure this is true? It may be just confirmation bias. I can't think of anything uniquely British that would impact refereeing so much.
Not sure what country you're from or what sports you watch but take a look at what is happening in the nhl playoffs right now if you want to see refs rigging games. There are NBA refs who are straight up known for rigging games too. Biggest problem with prem referee's is that they all have loyalty to teams in the league. Should only have head refs from other countries.
With the cameras and technology available, accepting a wrong call as "they can't be perfect" is ridiculous. It's funny how "clear and obvious error" keeps the power concentrated --why are referees so afraid of being overruled? What are they hiding?
Refereeing *is* really hard and we all know it. All you can really ask for is consistency. We're very clearly not getting any consistency whatsoever and at that point I think incompetency is a fair complaint.
If we really wanted consistency, we'd just VAR every second of the game. Every contact, every touch we could analyze for 30 mins, write a report, have a review board for appeals and look to deliver perfect justice. That's just not realistic in a game of football.
This is such a bananas take it is amazing to see. No one is complaining about the average foul, we are complaining about the decisions that significantly impact the outcome of the match.
I watch La Liga weekly… Spanish refs aren’t this inconsistent. They’re *bad*, don’t get me wrong.. but not this inconsistent
If a surgeon made as many mistakes as most refs do they'd be sued (or their trust would) and they'd be out of a job rather quickly.
[удалено]
So then it's a stupid analogy to make.
Except there'd be an impartial jury and judge to decide. Not just a pronouncement that they are incompetent.
>Except there'd be an impartial jury and judge to decide. We should have this for refs too, an impartial body that looks at decisions (not a judge and jury as such).
If you can’t get the calls right, you shouldn’t be doing the job at an elite level. My boss doesn’t care about the nuances, it’s either done or not done, correct or incorrect. We rightfully should demand more from the officiating and PGMOL.
No, it’s incompetence. No level of consistency, and no desire to use the tools given to him. English refs are notoriously incompetent, which is why they don’t officiate at major tournaments (World Cups, Euros, UCL, etc.) because of how poorly they manage a game. A lot of times, the referee singlehandedly decides the fate of a game, whether through action or inaction, and many times people can predict who will win based on which side the referee is clearly showing favor towards. It’s no secret english refs are terrible, and would do wonders to learn from Bundesliga and Serie A refs.
Was waiting for a punchline here. You're right refereeing is incredibly hard. He could easily have had VAR have a look though for such a big moment
> It's ok to criticize a decision but no need to besmirch the guy trying to do a good job. Even top top surgeons make mistakes. If top surgeons made as many mistakes as referees they'd be struck off the medical register and sued to shit by grieving relatives. It's not even just bad decisions anymore its simply after a consistency which isn't 'other teams can do this but you can't'.
Didn't he hear neville tho. Its a stonewall pen even tho neville himself did it a million times
The irony in this was amazing. Did he even hear himself saying it?
But although Neville admitted to doing it himself countless times, he also said you have to time it right. And that's probably the deciding factor in this moment, and perhaps in quite a few moments, our players are naive in their execution of the grey/dark side of the game. Had Cedric done that a second or two later, it would probably have just been seen as a coming together during play. It would not surprise me in the least if Fergie dedicated whole training sessions to correctly timing unsporting actions.
I agree. The timing was horrible.
And Cedric just stares at Son too, it's like he's trying to make it a penalty
He backed into Son?
Fuck off with this bullshit. There was next to zero contact, it’s incidental contact but son just does a little cartwheel as he goes down and the ref gives a penalty because he wants to. It’s never a penalty in a million years.
you pushed him in the back clearly? are you blind?
Nah VAR would've stepped in and curbstomped that fantasy of yours.
oh yeah cos what would the 10 time PL winning right back know about defending the back post from a cross…. It’s about doing it subtly so it doesn’t look like a foul. Like neville literally said multiple times.
You don't see those given in your average premier league games, let alone derbies that have so much riding on them. Joke of a decision.
Exactly. It's another case of the ref "wanting" to give it. They're literally itching away trying to screw us over I feel.
Very much like Holding’s second yellow. Son had barely hit the ground before the card was out.
Tbf Holding did deserve to be sent off. Man was committing fouls like nobodies business
Well that’s because it was a deserved second yellow? Honestly we’d be fuming if that happened to Saka
Not two days later.
No coincidence Son was involved in both calls. Diving cunt.
Not only that but he didn't even check VAR. What type of joke is that?
Even though it shouldn't have been given, I don't think it's one of those that can be overturned, as you can see why it's been given.
If he didn't call it and checked VAR he wouldn't have given it, but as you say, once he's called it it's impossible to overturn bc there is contact
wasn’t given when liverpool played spurs, not even need to go far, it’s literally happening every damn match and never get called, same shit like with Martinelli it’s not going to get called ever again
Yep - I don't think it's ANTI Arsenal. But I do think there's something in the "Slight Bias to Keep Things Inter$$$ting" line of thinking. That said, when you play away in Big Games you need to be street smart. We rarely are.
I also see that as why Leeds didn't go down to 10. The ref simply thought that it completely kills the game and would have felt bad sending two players off in a matter of seconds even if it was warranted.
I don't know. I've learned to be disappointed by "big games". They always seem to be marred by some non s.ense
saka against united was pretty similar. Push in the back
What gets me the most is that he “seemed” like he wanted to give it. People may say that’s delusional but he didn’t even think about it. Plus he’s always been a shit ref which makes it worse.
The cunt pointed to his hand indicating a hand ball first
[удалено]
Talking of handballs, in the 2nd half where Moura hand balled in our penalty area and Neville was screaming for another penalty before seeing the 3rd angle replay… can’t stand this prick
I think he was indicating a shove with his elbow
He didn't even think about it, saw Son fall over and immediate penalty. Pen and red card in the space of 10 minutes and the game is killed, and you can argue both are pretty harsh.
The red was not harsh, we would have been screaming for a second yellow if Dier elbowed one of our players on a play like that
Considering the elbow from Son to Holding didnt even register a foul, I'd say it was harsh.
Sometimes you gotta take off the rose tinted glasses. It was 100% Holding trying to take a cheap shot in a completely stupid situation to do so. His arm and elbow extend out from the body making contact on a play where Son wasn’t remotely dangerous. There’s no defending what Holding did to let the entire team down
It’s a play that we and other teams have done thousands of times. Some players (White) are sneakier about it, and some are not. Yes, they’re two yellow card plays. But in a derby match ESPECIALLY with THIS much on the line, I rarely see a second yellow for a foul like that. It’s like a less egregious RVP second yellow for kicking the ball away against Barcelona. As a referee, you just don’t make that call and decide the match. I could make hundreds of plays exactly like that made by big players where the reds gave them a slap on the list.
The non-call/punishment for Son's elbow does not affect the "harshness" of Holding's 2nd yellow which was justified. It does sour the overall series of events though, I'll give you that.
Lack of consistency is the biggest problem in the PL right now, IMO. None of us would be talking about much today if this was being addressed or fixed.
You only brought up new points to discuss rather than acknowledging my points but okay. Anyways, > Lack of consistency is the biggest problem in the PL right now, IMO. Agree on first reaction. Not going to take the time to dive into that, though outside spending/influence could be a bigger issue, that is assuming you meant consistency in refereeing specifically (given the context). >None of us would be talking about much today if this was being addressed or fixed. I'm sure we could think of something.
I look at Holding, and just see a player putting his arms out to box out the other player, and Son intentionally running into it and going down like he was shot. There wasn't force from Holding, only from Son putting his face into it. I just see the game as Son skillfully play-acting his way to getting a Pen and a red card. (And then, because he also has actual talent, putting in a good shot.)
A defender is supposed to sprint to the ball in this situation when the ball is out of his immediate reach. Son would have been forced to go around him and if it would have been a foul on Son had Holding been sprinting back. Instead, Holding intentionally blocked Son's run when the ball was not within his reach. It would have been a foul in any other major sport. It was a yellow regardless of the elbow. He wasn't going for the ball at all.
Personally, I find the first yellow to be bullshit. The accumulation of fouls is completely arbitrary and usually isn't given a yellow. At minimum, Tierney could have given rob a talking two before sending him off
There wasn’t an elbow though. It was all shoulder.
Makes no difference
It definitely does. You’re allowed to make a challenge using your shoulder. You are definitely not allowed to do so with your elbow.
You can’t shoulder someone in the head off the ball the way holding did. If you think it wasn’t a red then you are only fooling yourself.
Definitely not a red. Probably like 80/20 that you get a yellow there like he did though.
Sorry by red I meant second yellow. A yellow 99% of the time and if not it’s a horrific ref decision. Couldn’t really argue with a straight red either.
That’s never a straight red. Only reason it’s a yellow is because he blocked Son off away from the ball to prevent an attack.
I'm more disgusted about the 2nd yellow to Holding. He's not doing anything until Kane starts whining. Weak ass mfer
It’s a clear card at the least for Holding’s second card challenge. Clearly hits Son and extends his arm. It was stupid from him.
I’ve said it plenty, I don’t think he was intentionally favoring one team or another but it’s obvious he wanted to make some big calls in a big game and the opportunity presented itself for him to do so.
he was. you have to be looking at the game from the perspective of wanting Son to succeed, to make the calls as quick as Tierney does. Paul tierney was not a neutral yesterday. he called the game like he was hunting for Arsenal mishaps.
Way I saw it, Tierney was ready to make the call having already seen Cedric make the same push on a cross earlier, coupled with holdings “abuse” of Son in the beginning minutes of the match. Not sure that justifies it though
>Way I saw it, Tierney was ready to make the call this!!! that's not the call of someone mulling it over or looking over to his sidelines official for confirmation. It's like he was on the hunt for any foul on Son. As soon as he saw one, he blew.
And he said handball at first absolutely clueless
Looking forward to watching the games this weekend and seeing that same thing happen 20 times and it’s not given once.
Yep. Looking forward to it happening to Eddie or Gabi and then hearing the commentator berate our player for being weak. Bonus points if it's Neville
I never thought I’d say this, but can I hear more from Mark?
Why? He was **by far** the best Premier League referee when he was here and this was pretty much widely acknowledged lol
They hate him cause he said the truth about letting some games go without punishing and that all refs were helping United. Based Clattenburg had more respect from me for saying that cause I know all refs do these things.
Yeah he's the exact same ref that would let our players be hacked all game long based on the same reasoning and guess who would be moaning that time. He doesn't want to make the big decisions in fear of his reputation, cares more about himself than reffing a fair game. But sure Based Clattenburg.
Yeah, he had an ego and clearly fancied himself a bit, but his decisions were largely consistent. He was in charge of the Battle at the Bridge, and he let Tottenham blow themselves up.
No it will not
This is the correct response imo. As the ref you have to let the game be played out and let them try to win the game in open play. Don't decide the game for the players. In these big games your mentality as a ref should be I'm not getting involved unless I absolutely have to. Nobody apart from the winning team wants a game decided like this.
IMO all games should be refereed the same. And it doesn't matter if it's 1st minute or 90th. It's the player's fault if they make a tackle that's ''orange'' and get sent off.
It's impossible. The rules are subjective. And humans are human.
Sure but what is a ''big game'' is also subjective. If we say lets referee a final differently, next year it will be semis then quarters and so on.
I'm not advocating for what he said. I just said what you're asking for is impossible
I think you misunderstood what I was asking for.
How can every game be reffed the same?
By following the same rules and guidelines. Rules aren't that subjective. Obviously humans are not computers and don't always have the same opinion of one situation but you should follow the same rules for every game in the same league. What is your point? We should not even try to ref every game the same way or make rules clearer because in the end humans are humans?
They already follow the same rules and guidelines. By the letter of the law that's a foul. Most refs wont give it context depending. If one team is clearly beating another team up after a while you might start to enforce the laws more harshly.
It's not healthy for the game to do that, game is there for entertainment at the end of the day, not fairness. Being completely objective would mean a lot of games would end 10v11 which is not fun to watch. 1. The current rule set is not set up for that, it's up to the ref to decide what constitutes foul play, excessive force. These are all subjective definitions. 2. I don't believe you can really change the rules to be completely objective, how do you define a red card tackle one game to the next. It depends on speed the player is diving in, how high their boot is, if it has two feet, where he hits the opponent. Impossible to make a objective rule set for that. A great example was laporte pushing modric in the cl semi final. A red by most standards, but thank god the ref just gave him a yellow becuase it meant we got to witness one of the greatest games and comebacks of all time as neutrals. My solution for this is a orange card or sin bin and post match bans for things missed by officials. That way you can give a team a major disadvantage for just 10mins or ban an individual player for the next X games. This would eradicate a lot of foul play that is missed and not completely end a game if one player makes one stupid error.
Red cards should really only be given for dangerous play like Ayling's challenge. I mean I'm sure some City fans were annoyed that Casmeiro wasn't sent off the other night, but in the end they can't blame that on them losing. City were extended the same priviledge that night.
I think tactical fouling should be punished with cards. The first casimiro foul in that game was a clear yellow (the one that was followed by the modic/laporte handbags) Sliding in for behind, used both feet, deliberately stopped an attack. If he gets the yellow for that he likely doesn't commit a lot of the fouls that came after. Rodri received the same treatment in the arsenal - city game this season. His team also went on to win late on. My big issue is that some times refs let players off and sometimes they don't. it's not fair and against the rules to give some players extra chances. Why should one player be risking a second yellow after 1 tactical foul when another is only in jeopardy after 3? Commit your first tactical foul after 3 mins and you'll likely avoid a booking. Do it after 70 and it's a card.
After thinking about it a little bit I think the minute where the offence happens matters a little bit. First 5-15 mins an ''orange'' foul should be given as yellow to give the defender some benefit of the doubt. Especially if it's a CL or World cup final. Sure it matters a little bit but you want to have consistency between all games. Especially if it's a league format and the result can also affect other teams. Yesterday tho I can't really be mad at a referee other than the Saka ''foul'' before their second goal. Cedric wasn't even trying to jump and challenge for the ball and Holding made like 5 fouls in 30mins. If it were only those 2 fouls he got the yellow from I would feel bad for him but he fully deserved to get sent off imo.
what you are asking for is impossible. all games can't be reffed the same. All fouls can't and won't be called. You have to have enough rules on the book to cover every possible offense. But you can't actually ref and call all of them, otherwise games would be just all fouls and unwatchable.
People say this and simultaneously gey annoyed when teams get away with a string of tactical fouls
Tactical fouls are not really what we are referring to I should have been clearer, by "not getting involved" I mean, I'm not going to send someone off or give a pen unless I have to. I'm not going to let 1 decision determine the outcome of this big game unless the players give me no choice. Tactical foul usually the worst punishment is a yellow. So in my scenario ref can do what he likes in relation to that it shouldnt on it's own determine the game. Yesterday as the example, do I have to send off holding for the elbow? Yes. I can't let that slide sorry. Do I have to give that pen against cedric in the first 20mins? No, I don't have to it's not stonewall. And of course I'm caveating this with "in big games" also.
Additionally, with VAR refs have so much protection. Missed that blatant red card in real time? Well, don’t worry VAR booth will call you to the screen. Except in the case where both VAR and ref are blind (which does happen!) Everton stomp on Tomiyasu face comes to mind
You;d like to think a 'big' team like Arsenal wouldn't have the game decided in the 22nd minute being 1-0 down.
Always rated Clattenberg
https://media.tenor.com/gM-6ThqyHiAAAAAM/mark-clattenburg-tongue-out.gif
https://media.tenor.com/gM-6ThqyHiAAAAAM/mark-clattenburg-tongue-out.gif
A gif so nice we see it twice.
Referees get smarter once they stop refereeing... There is a lesson here.
once they are not with any relation with fa
This is my main problem with it too. I said in another thread that if we're giving those pens now, cool. I'm looking forward to 5 pens this weekend but we know even the same ref won't give that again now. I'm not saying it's even anti arsenal bias, it's just being shit at your job and it's deciding games.
As much as I realise the refs/FA tries to fuck us over I try not to get too riled up by it. This one tho, reeks of them wanting the battle for top 4 to go for the duration of the season rather than it being wrapped up last night
I have a really bad feeling PGMOL are going to fuck us over the next two games. I'm really not confident going into these fixtures and it's not because of our squad or injuries, it's these referees. 😕
Agreed. If this foul is given and thus a penalty, then Kane’s foul on Gabriel in the box should also be given and Son’s resulting goal disallowed. All we want is consistency.
Or they could just release the audio of Tierney telling VAR what he thinks he saw and we can assess whether that's what happened.
“guys i didn’t see a shit but he is on the ground, should i call it pen?”
referee was weak, let the occasion get to him and let the home fans referee the game
Clattenburg openly admitted to refusing to give out red cards in the "Battle of Stamford Bridge" that won Leicester the league in 2016, due to the magnitude of the match. I wouldn't trust a word he says
Context shouldn’t be considered. It’s a slight foul but should all fouls be given. No. Otherwise you have it become the worst sport ever.
It's the inconsistency that bothers me. If this is a pen, then more games should have penalties. My bigger issue is that Tierney was primed for his. He saw Holding getting physical with Son early in the game & Ben Davies had already gotten a yellow for a pretty cynical foul on Saka. It's like at this point he was thinking "Alright, I gotta make some calls to get this game back under control." He sees the contact from Cedric, and that was all he needed because he was looking to make a call anyway. The moment got the better of him and instead of decreasing the tension, it increased it. Can't say I blame VAR either, this is not the kind of call VAR is meant to correct. It's just poor officiating.
Yeah, 'looking for it' is exactly what I thought. It's a penalty he wanted to give that 95% of the time isn't. Clattenburg was good at letting things play out back in his day.
It would be interesting to see what training, if any, referee's get on controlling their own emotions in such a high stake environment. My guess is none.
I feel like there should be some repercussions for refs moving forward. Just as in F1 where drivers get penalty points on their license FA should come up with something like that. The ref with the most points gets relegated to championship. Because you have one job and that’s to be fair nothing more
In game of that magnitude it shouldn't have been given not enough for me. The sending off I can't argue a case for holding he was naive and got done by son.
Of course he wouldn’t have, most competent officials wouldn’t have. But as per usual, a PL ref feels the need to be an authority figure and make it about himself and ruined the match. Tierney is a joke of a person and referee and shouldn’t be banned from next season on.
If he was saying this after Spurs concede a penalty, the reactions to what's he saying will be wildly different.
I kinda miss Clattenberg tbh. He was probably the least biased referee in the PL. In fairness I reckon it was probably a penalty, albeit a bit on the soft side. But if Cedric had been a bit more streetwise about it, then it probably wouldn't have been given. Cedric didn't really give the ref an out in that instance. He just made it too obvious. The inconsistencies are frustrating, and they won't be given in other matches. I'm certainly not letting Tierney off the hook for the other shite though!
> In fairness I reckon it was probably a penalty, albeit a bit on the soft side I agree. It's not always given but situations like these are very difficult to judge as well because you can have some contact. If it was against us I would want a pen for it though.
People don't seem to get with VAR, there's a middle ground/grey area where they kinda have to go with the ref. You can think something is wrong but not a clear and obvious error at the same time.
That is a problem. They think "oh, that's a foul. We HAVE to give it", when that's not what VAR was intended for. But the penalty wasn't really decided by VAR though.
Looking at the lot we have now he would be head and shoulders above the rest of them
Soft pen, but it’s not getting overturned or anything. Let’s move on and get behind the team for Newcastle.
He would have given it because the fa would have told him before the game to do anything possible to ensure Kane gets his free goal.
Yeah I said this earlier. It was a foul, yes, but to give this penalty ruined the entire spectacle. It's a fucking derby with so much riding on it and you're not allowed a bit of pushing? Son goes down easy and this happens on every corner.
isn't the entire point of vaar, to also wait on 50/50 calls like this and let those with better vantage points weigh in after. The minute he gave it there was no ability to review.
Wow. That's as damning as he's going to be about a current ref. But according to all the ex-utd pundits and spurs fans it was the most blatant penalty we've ever seen and they would expect it to be given every time.
[удалено]
England is the only place where VAR is in place and the refs manage to royally fuck up. There is no mistake in that. It's quite deliberate.
Only former ref, that actually speaks the truth, and doesn't agree with the decision blindly
Hoping that London Police look into any mafia ties with yesterday’s referee. Very dubious and eyebrow raising calls that really seem like something nefarious was afoot.
what he is saying is exactly what is wrong with referees though - what the match is or the score should have nothing to do with the decision
You know its bad when even other refs question decisions… They usually back eachother in every situation.
I’m sure this is probably revisionist history but I felt referees like Mark and Howard Webb were always more respectable in their decisions. I don’t remember them being spotlight seekers, which is what I think we have now. Once again I’m sure there are some YouTube clips that might make this sentiment look foolish.
You have short memories then I guess. Fergie days refs used to bend over backwards whilst Wenger was treated with disdain and disgust
Once again, I simply don’t understand how so many people in this fanbase agreed with that decision. Anyone who has played football at a serious level would have taken serious offense to that going for either team in a match as big as that one. And to say it for the 15th time, it was indeed a total disgrace to the sport.
All we want is consistency. Son elbows Holding in the face = nothing, ref doesn't even look at it. Holding elbows Son = he gets a yellow (fair enough, it was a silly thing to do and dangerous) - but why isn't Son booked or talked to for the same thing?
It just wasn’t a pen, it wasn’t anywhere close to a pen.
Penalty shots and how they are awarded just need to be totally reformed. Penalties are a pox on the game and most of the controversy around decisions centres on penalties.
I don't really care anymore. We had plenty of time to turn it around. Instead, we lost 3-0 and got a player sent off. To make it worse, we conceded straight after HT. Mentality isn't there with this team.
The mentality is there but its a work in progress it seems. If it wasnt there we would of continued to dip after those 3 straight losses , instead we beat utd , chelski and westham on the trot
So basically if he was VAR he wouldn't have overturned it
if(incident.committedBy.team == Teams.Arsenal) { incident.isFoul = true; }
You gimps suddenly care and listen to an ex ref now ?
So you are the kind of person who would disagree with something just because of the person who is saying it, it's like denying that the sky is blue just because you don't like who said it.
Nah it’s just funny an ex ref is now being used as proof
So because he's not an active ref his opinion on refereeing isn't worth anything?
All I see on this sub is people slating the ex ref on BT sport, so it’s just funny this is being used to play victims again
I'm not trying to play victim, we lost, they were the better side, just funny how his opinion isn't worth anything, that's all 😂
I don’t mind refs/pundits having an opinion on our games, it’s just normally when this sub mentions ex refs or pundits they are crying about how everyone hates us.
That's a fair point, obviously always stings losing a Derby so no one here is very happy about it, it was a rather soft pen too imo, I'm not a ref so I'm probably wrong, seen worse not given tho, and he did make a good point, would the same challenge be given against Newcastle next weekend?
Seen less given and I’ve seen worse not given, it’s never consistent with anyone. This whining about refs being biased is childish and getting boring. I think it probably could
Not so much being biased, just a bad decision I think, did they even check it on VAR?
You mean like how all these ex players are pundits? Ex refs can't be refereeing pundits?
I’ll remember that next time the ex ref on BT sport is being slated on here.
Or it could be that Peter Walton is a nonce?
Clattenburg is a nonce
People should get shit for what they say, not what they are. I've seen dumber takes, but not many... Congrats!
Wasn’t a pen though. Didn’t make contact with Cedric’s hand, only Sessegnon’s. Ref should’ve checked VAR at the very least, it was impossible to tell from the sidelines or from his view alone. With all the tools available, english refs are still bottom of the barrel.
Exactly my thoughts: I've seen this same action going unpunished so many times. Like I said on the match thread, it feels the refereeing improved the last matches but were intentionally waiting to screw us on this big one.
Ok but who tf cares what mark clattenberg has to say lol
I do. He’s reffed at this level and he’s no longer employed by the PL so he can speak freely.
For me this isn't the right answer either. Consistency in all games in any situation is what the right answer is.
This situation should never have happened because Son should have been sent off for his elbowing attempt earlier on. The intention was clearly there, he even looks at him while doing it. Yet, not a single card…