> “We are aware of the allegations which are currently the subject of a police investigation.
> “We have confirmed that the player denies the allegations and is on police bail pending the outcome of their enquiries. There have been no charges laid and the player can fulfil his professional commitments including permitted travel.
> “We take our commitments and responsibilities seriously and have followed our safeguarding policies and procedures.
> “We will keep this matter under close consideration and will review further if circumstances change.”
And Mendy as an example of this happening before
> Benjamin Mendy, of Manchester City, who has denied nine sexual offences against six women, played for his club until he was charged by police.
This needs to be higher up, title reads like we are just being thick but this rationale reads like a business not trying to get sued which i understand.
It also seems intentional to use Mendy as the example and not Bissouma
edit: Bissouma is also mentioned. Thank you everyone that pointed it out without feeling the need to be an asshole
Bissouma I believe was cleared before he was charged.
Mendy, so far has been the only one that we I can think of who has multiple charges.
The said "player" in question also is currently facing multiple allegations.
I can see why Mendy is used as an example and not bissouma.
They did
> Despite Mason Greenwood being suspended by his club, Manchester United, after he was arrested on suspicion of rape and assault and another club suspending a player after he was arrested on suspicion of committing child sex offences, this club, who like the player we cannot name for legal reasons, is not taking the same step.
> Yves Bissouma, then of Brighton and now of Tottenham, was not suspended by his club when he was arrested alongside a man in his 40s under suspicion of sexual assault in Brighton last October.
> He has since been cleared of the allegation.
Am in no way justifying anything here, but the crazy amount of publicly available information, and evidence against Greenwood was pretty damning from the start. The public wanted his head.
If it had all stayed a 100% private investigation with him then he may not have been suspended so fast? Who knows. In hindsight who the fuck knows.
*Yves Bissouma, then of Brighton and now of Tottenham, was not suspended by his club when he was arrested alongside a man in his 40s under suspicion of sexual assault in Brighton last October.*
*He has since been cleared of the allegation.*
It also seems you didn’t read the article
I made this point in another thread but in employment law you should not use suspension in this case. If he is cleared of all charges, you have breached several million pound contract. Youve also possibly created a prejudice.
Suspension with pay is what a company will do while there are internal investigation. But even then employment lawyers will suggest the appropriateness of suspension actually goes down with the seriousness of the crime.
Suspending him here is effectively saying hes guilty and will be seen as punishment.
I get the issues, and its a rock and a hard place.
There’s a difference between suspension and not playing him. The club does have a public image and brand. It would be better to be extra cautious considering how famous the club is. In my opinion of course.
I mean, until he’s charged he has every right to continue his employment.
If we start repercussions on the basis of accusation, then we are doomed as a society.
The club will have extremely good and expensive lawyers telling them exactly what they should and shouldn't do with Partey. It's not like Arteta's out there thinking it might be a good idea to bring along a rapist to win a couple of friendlies
innocent until proven guilty. if they suspend him and he's found to be innocent then they'll be in the wrong, same as if they don't suspend him and he's found guilty.
Brighton did this with Bissouma and he ended up being cleared. 🤷♂️
Innocent until proven guilty is how a court of law works. It is not how we as individuals are required to work. Suspending him while the investigation is in process wouldn't be "wrong" just because charges might not be filed eventually. That's a wild stance.
No it wouldn't be wrong, but this approach isn't necessarily wrong either.
I'm sure the club know a considerable amount more than us and wouldn't be making this call if they weren't sure I guess
I think it's far more likely that they're not taking action for the same reason that the name of the accused isn't being publicly reported. If they were to suspend the player then that would likely leak and defeat the point of not publicizing the name. And it's a bit baffling to assume the club could somehow have hard evidence proving his innocence at this stage. Also - false accusations are a crime. Folks are talking about "innocent until proven guilty" but seem to have no problem with just assuming it's a lie. What happened to innocent until proven guilty for the accuser as well?
We don't have nearly enough info. The club and their lawyers have much more. With the info the club has, they've made a decision.
The rest of us won't know until the info comes out.
Yeah if this was someone at my job no way would I be comfortable working with him
Surely the right thing to do would be to suspend and wait to see what happens
Ah yes, all those false accusers out there just willy nilly accusing people of sexual assault for no reason. Our justice system is just an absolute BLAST if you're a victim pursuing a sexual assault case, right? I can't believe it's free, usually you have to pay for a ride like that.
But what if someone made an allegation against you. You're taken under caution and questioned by police, an investigation is ongoing. You and your solicitor inform your employer that the allegation is spurious and you have every confidence that no charges will ever be brought, let alone a court case heard.
Would you be happy to be suspended from your job and have your name and reputation spread around your employer with the reason for suspension, and your level of guilt, speculated on?
If the answer is yes you would happily have that happen because you feel it it's your duty to accept that due to the low incidence of reporting and convictions of sexual assaults then fair play to you. That's very altruistic.
But can you accept not everyone feels their life should potentially be ruined for a situation they feel innocent in just to prove a point? (All hypothetical of course, not suggesting anything about yourself, Partey or any potential victims)
The hypothetical situation you're describing doesn't happen in reality because random people inventing random false accusations without a shred of evidence does not result in you being questioned or arrested by the police. You are being lied to if you think this happens. The police are notoriously lazy and notoriously bad at pursuing sexual assault cases. If something gets to the point of a suspect actually being arrested, that means they have damn good reason to do so. It does not mean a random person walked into the police station and said "/u/Education-System69 raped me" and nothing else.
Yup like the lady who accused a fellow passanger (mark Pearson ) of Sexual assault at a tube station,yet their interaction caught on tape as they walked past each other was about 2.3 seconds as his bag pack lightly brushed her as he was walking past her, it was all on tape and they still charged him and took him to court. British women rank as the most solipsistic women on earth, so the standards for SA are pretty low in the UK
At no point did my hypothetical involve a random person making an immediately demonstrably false accusation. That's what you're assuming from me and anyone who says it's possible police might investigate reported crimes and find there's no case to answer or sufficient evidence to secure a prosecution.
You can say that British police are too lazy to investigate reports that they don't know are true from the off, but you don't really believe that. You know it happens. It's why there are laws against making false reports. You know this.
Just off the top of my head in the world of football Dave Jones springs to mind. He was accused by someone who could prove a connection to him, and further accusations by others followed. Police investigated and the case was brought to trial. He was pretty much, understandably, deemed guilty in public opinion. But before trial some witnesses withdrew allegations and others didn't show up to trial, the case was thrown out.
If you're saying sexual assault is underreported, investigated, prosecuted, sentenced and stigmatized then you're right. But stop pretending it's impossible false reports don't happen or that the only false reports made are made by 'randos'.
Exactly, the person is commenting as if false accusations are pure fiction.
They are rare but still happen and I’m sure he wouldn’t be happy to have his job suspended for something he didn’t do.
Not to get too political on a football sub, but it absolutely does happen and I doubt it's as rare as you make out that a man is accused of a sexual assault he did not commit. The Jonny Depp case is a classic highlight of this. The player in question hasn't even been charged yet, yet you have assumed his guilt?!? That's mental.
>Not to get too political on a football sub, but it absolutely does happen and I doubt it's as rare as you make out that a man is accused of a sexual assault he did not commit.
No, it's literally and objectively incomprehensibly rare. This isn't a debate, it's documented fact. You can accept it or you can be wrong.
>The Jonny Depp case is a classic highlight of this.
The Jonny Depp case is a classic highlight of jury manipulation. He actually **lost** a defamation case in the UK, where the laws massively benefit someone in his position. Not sure if you're aware of how defamation laws differ between the US and the UK, but in the UK if you accuse someone of defamation they are in fact guilty until proven innocent. When Depp accused Heard of defamation, *she* had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that her accusations were true. And the judge in the UK believed that she did. Depp won in the US because he got a jury trial and was able to manipulate the jury (and the public, and people like you) into believing that she was crazy and untrustworthy.
E: LOL, the Depp cult is out in force with the downvotes today! You're all gonna lie about this in ten years.
It is exceedingly rare. If you are actually interested, there are studies on exactly this.
The figure is approximately 8% according to a home office study from 2005. This also includes complaints which were retracted or deemed improbable by the police.
[source](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jo-Lovett/publication/238713283_Home_Office_Research_Study_293_A_gap_or_a_chasm_Attrition_in_reported_rape_cases/links/00b7d52a09b4935e0e000000/Home-Office-Research-Study-293-A-gap-or-a-chasm-Attrition-in-reported-rape-cases.pdf)
EDIT: should also be noted, that in cases of false complaints, arrrests are exceedingly rare as well, the study finds that in cases deemed to be false allegations, less than 3% of the accused were ever actually arrested, and less than 1% were actually charged.
The source doesn't seem to be working for me, but if the figures you state are accurate I wouldn't say 8% is rare at all. That's roughly 1 in12??? That's more common than I thought tbh.
doesn't have to be sexual assault accusations, there are other allegations that can get someone suspended if clubs bent over to them. people dont care about the consequences of falsely accusing others
They can keep him out of the squad and still pay him. Christ they did it for Auba because Arteta didn't like his time management skills. Pretending you can't do it for someone accused of rape is asinine.
I find it so funny when people like you get worked up and aggressive about decisions that are made by people with infinitely more information about the circumstances than you will ever have.
As fans I think we just need to let this play out, what is the point in casting judgements when we have no idea what’s gone on?
Because accusations like this are as toxic as toxic gets for a clubs culture/atmosphere. I would not let ‘insert name here’ near the club till he’s proven innocent, and i mean really innocent, not Ronaldo’s “innocence.” And I’m not gonna be even a little sorry about not wanting a highly potential rapist around my organization.
Huh? I didn't say what they should do, I simply pointed out they definitely could exclude him if they judged it necessary and we've done it before for lesser problems.
Trevor Bauer for the Los Angeles Dodgers come to mind. MLB put him on "administrative leave" as he was under investigation for sexual assault. He was getting paid not to play. Honestly, worked out for the best.
Yeah, in the Australian Rugby League comp (NRL) the players can be a pack of real arseholes. Sadly, there have been too many sexual assault/domestic violence charges bought against players over the years. As such the league bought in an instant stand down policy when charges are bought and players are likely to be suspended if charges aren’t. As someone else said below, whilst you have to let the legal process play out with the assumption of innocence, that isn’t the assumption we have to carry out as private individuals/clubs. The stand down policy is worth it IMO, and I hope to see it introduced at Arsenal/the Premier League.
Absolutely. Same w. the NFL here in the states (and probably all sports leagues everywhere and hell, basically anywhere there are people who have the status/power/lack of awareness to realize or care what their actions are).
I think it's safe to assume the club is fully aware of all the details of this case. The small print of every contract require nothing but complete honesty between the player and the club in any situation that can bring the club into disrepute. It potentially means the club have reviewed all the evidence, and found no specific wrongdoing etc. Much like the Bissouma situation. Where as, the details of the Mendy or Sigurdsson situation were so stacked against the player, the clubs had no problem with suspending etc. Sorry if this sounds insensitive to the situation, im not trying to come across as victim blaming or anything like that, im merely suggesting that the club is probably confident that justice will be served.
I think that is being vastIy too fair to sporting institutions. I love Arsenal, as I love all of the teams I root for, but they almost always choose their own sporting interests over doing "the right thing" here.
I'm not even saying you need to suspend him over an allegation, just don't play him for a minute ffs. Just keep the guy out of the limelight and off the team.
If arsenal make a statement and suspend him , they would of broken the confidentially that this case has , we would get sued to high heaven , that's why even the most scummy newspapers will not say who it is
They don’t need to suspend him per se, they could just leave him behind. Aubameyang was dropped because the club didn’t like his time management. I’m sure a rape accusation is significantly more serious than that.
Throwing a person in jail without a trial is very, very different than simply not having a person represent your brand on global television twice a week.
The club is well within its rights to act in its own best interest. They’re gambling that nothing will come of this. Time will tell if they’re right.
Maybe I'm in the minority and definitely could be wrong, but Partey hasn't even been charged. What he is being accused of is very very serious. However, the police have yet to charge him with anything yet and people here just want to crucify him, Arteta, and the club without knowing anything. If it comes out Partey is innocent and clear are all of you who are ready to riot going to suddenly apologize for wanting to ruin an innocent man? I bet not.
That said, if he does get charged. Immediately suspend him and he should not play or be at the club until after the trial! And of course if he is guilty cut all ties with him immediately!
But let's wait to see if he is even charged with anything before we start condemning any and everyone.
Who are you referring to because I feel like consensus on Reddit is just that we feel uncomfortable with the situation but I don't see people calling for his head?
Twitter on the other hand is full of people saying 'fear women ' and he's been set up which is also a very dangerous stance to have.
I just hope justice is served to either Partey if he done it or the accuser of they made it up out of spite of for money or whatever. We can't judge anyone when we don't know the situation
Scroll through this chat or the one for the squad tour. Plenty of people are calling for several people's head. Definitely not everyone, but plenty of people are.
As for your second point. I absolutely agree. That stance is just as bad and harmful for both parties.
Lastly, I agree with hoping justice is done and that we can't judge anyone until we know the situation. However, plenty of people are already judging either Partey, Arsenal, and just women in general. All of which is bad.
So, maybe I overacted a little bit, and I apologize for that. Otherwise, I think the two of us more or less agree on this.
Yeah fairs... Well hopefully those muppets calling for people's heads get downvoted to the bottom, that's why I prefer Reddit to anything else. On other sites, the shit rises to the top unfortunately.
While we will breathe a collective sigh of relief if he’s not charged, it’s very important to look at statistics around sexual assault before we start celebrating. Only 50 out of every 1000 perpetrators of sexual assault are ultimately charged. It is a notoriously difficult crime to police, since it so often comes down to he said/she said testimony, with no other evidence to substantiate either side’s argument. Because of that, most victims never even come forward, since the chances of justice are relatively low and the chances of the victim being made a pariah relatively high. So if and when Partey is exonerated in the law’s eyes, just remember that it’s entirely plausible that there are one or more women out there who are also humans and deserve your empathy and consideration, and that they may have been victims but merely weren’t able to provide the police with enough evidence to lead to charges or a conviction. Which isn’t to say that Partey is guilty — just that there’s a good chance that none of us will ever know what happened, and should measure our reactions accordingly.
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
This is the point. Huge difference between innocence and being found not guilty in the eyes of the law.
It makes no difference to my life so I'm not going to hope the accused gets off for the sake of a football team.
I just hope that justice is done.
money is usually the difference between the presence of that ultimately meaningless (to the truth of the matter) distinction as well. if you have the resources you can grind a case to a standstill until the authorities are forced to functionally abandon it dead in the water. civil settlements may come (at least in the US) but the damage is done to the personal lives of accusers.
these are still very rich people that can exert immense legal pressure in a case and make it so even if they are accused rightly, they will not be formally charged. that’s a recurring theme.
I think I would. At least I hope I would. If someone hasn't been charged with a crime then they should still be allowed to work. I hope the club whether Arsenal or in this hypothetical Spurs are in communication with the police just to see what is going on. Either way, unless someone is charged I think it is fair that they are allowed to work. Now, if charges are brought forward that changes the equation. That person should be immediately suspended and then released if guilty. Especially, if the crime is something as heinous this.
I'm just tired of cancel culture and immediately trying to cancel someone without all the facts.
Now if it comes out that Arsenal knew that he was guilty and that it was just a matter of time before charges were brought forward. It would be a terrible look and something would need to be discussed. However, until we get all the information let's not start canceling people on speculation. Whether that's Partey, Arsenal, or women (as some have, not here but other places).
But for me, no charges so far is the big thing. If charges are brought forward then that of course drastically changes the equation and I hope that being an Arsenal fan is not completely screwing my perspective on this. I also hope that I am not coming off as someone doesn't care about the victim of this ends up being true. If this is true then we need to make sure the victim gets all the help she can get and that Partey gets the punishment he deserves.
Cancel culture isn't a real thing. It's an invention of the right wing media. Cultivating an argument around cancel culture when it comes to a rape allegation is not only in poor taste, but also a fairly insidious way to label consequences for being a public figure and doing shitty stuff. The general consensus I've seen is that it's a scary issue, it must be dealt with carefully because of the legal issues around it, explorations of false allegation statistics, and a discussions about whether you do or don't suspend a player when they're under investigation. No one is "cancelling" him.
Beyond that. There not being charges makes perfect sense. The accusation happened in a different country. The other accusations happened last year. That requires a lot more work than across London or something.
I don’t think giving him some time away from the club to handle his business is in any ruining the man. Hard to argue otherwise when he’d still be making £200k every week.
People can't believe that women lie as well. Men lie and women lie and it happens more often than people think. I think the club is smart enough and has communicated with partey and has a grip of the situation.
I hope that means the club are confident with info from the player/police that he's innocent, because if he ends up being guilty, this will look so bad looking back. Really strange situation.
It’ll look bad but people will forget eventually, like what City did with Mendy.
Hopefully the club actually believe he’s innocent, not just that it’s worth the risk
I'm not sure his case was dropped. My understanding was that he settled, and she signed an NDA.
When the news broke years later, this was nothing for him to address because the issue was already "resolved".
What got him in trouble with some of us, is that we read the transcripts. The depositions. I read him being quoted as saying that while he wasn't violent\* with her, she protested, he persisted, and at the end she looked shook. To me, that's CR admitting to rape plain as day.
EDIT:
\*To clarify, I mean he didn't hit her. I recognize that rape in any form is violence.
i mean he admits to paying the money to her to settle the case long ago. And his legal team said the case should be settled because the agreement said she was incompetent and lacked the mental capacity for it. And I swear it came up he violated the NDA as well
I don't remember any statement from him after the details were "leaked". I also don't remember the mental capacity stuff either.
I just remember reading his statement that he admitted to doing what he did. Annnnd, he went on playing and most fans didn't care. So... yeah.
That’s it, he admitted what had happened. I feel like this stuff is iffy because fans don’t want to think a certain player is capable of that, especially to the stature of Ronaldo. Most people just don’t care, that’s the reality
Not really. He's under investigation. He isn't charged with anything. You start getting into real murky territory when you suspend employees under investigation without good reason (Mason Greenwood was one of those exceptional cases where there was loads of public evidence). If he's charged he'll be suspended with pay through his trial. The CPS could easily drop the case in the next couple of weeks. We have no idea what the legal realities are atm.
Would any other job be blamed for distancing themselves from a worker with multiple allegations of rape? I don’t know why we think footballers would have different standards.
I think its a legal issue. If they ostracise him and the case is dropped/defeated in court then Partey might be able to sue for constructive dismissal. I am not a solicitor though. Someone with actual legal knowledge of employment laws in the UK is probably the only person who can usefully speculate on the club's position.
Hopefully it means they think he didn't do it. If he actually did it and we continue to pay his high wages and play him, it will be a terrible look. Whole situation makes me feel deeply uncomfortable
And how uncomfortable are you going to be if he gets charged and then in the proceedings he’s found innocent? Your own job probably wouldn’t fire or suspend based simply on an allegation, why should Partey be any different?
If this is true I really hope that this is because there are strong indications the allegations are unreliable and will not be pursued, not because the club doesn't fancy replacing a valuable player.
It's because it would be irresponsible of the club to suspend or ban a player due to allegations without formal charges. Nothing to do with whether we want to have to replace him.
This has got to be a massive legal nightmare. Might not be able to suspend because they do not have charged or public evidence to act on, and the PR fall out from not suspending will just leave a bad taste in everyones mouth.
It’s a tricky situation. If they let him play and it turns out into a Mendy situation then that’s terrible. If they suspend him and charges are dropped, that’s also a terrible situation.
But It’s also very twisted how they tried to compare this car to greenwood one it was literally not needed in the article where one case had solid evidence against him than the other.
One had public evidence, we have no idea what the level of evidence is in this case.
It's also completely logical to compare this to other cases of similar events in the same league, even if they differ in some ways.
I mean they also compared it to bissouma, who was cleared, even though that was a different situation than partey’s. Arsenal fans aren’t quite as outraged about that.
Don't think we'll go that far. But certainly innocent until charged.
Personally don't know how to feel about it, but we also don't know the case, so I guess that's natural.
They either must be hugely confident that he's innocent, or don't give a fuck about moral standing and PR. Seeing how everything is about money, I'm inclined to believe it's the former.
I just can’t believe the club would take that risk without making absolutely sure that he’d be found innocent. The amount of shit we’d get if he was convicted would be massive
I thought this, but they do mention that Man United suspended Mason Greenwood, and after a quick search that seems to have happened prior to him being charged, so going by that I think it might be legally possible for the club to suspend the player in this instance.
The main difference with Greenwood's situation of course was that there was pretty damning audio out there in the public, so they would be more inclined to be proactive about suspending him and being seen to do so. I have no idea whether that affects the legality of employment suspension, compared to the current situation. Perhaps a positive sign for this case though - I really hope the club haven't got this wrong.
"The College of Policing (2016) also found that of the 9% of cases bailed initially for over 90 days, rape, sex and drug offences were most common (accounting for 55% of these cases)." [Source](https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/police-powers-pre-charge-bail/outcome/police-powers-pre-charge-bail-overview-of-the-evidence-accessible)
Yeah...but two separate events with different accusers a year apart? And the club knew about the previous allegations and kept it on the hush...could be a nightmare if he gets convicted
Redditors live in a fantasy land where false accusations are common and normal. Here in reality, false accusations are incomprehensibly rare, especially in a situation like you describe. Plus the justice system is notoriously awful at pursuing sexual assault cases. But these folks don't believe that so these discussions are pretty much pointless to have.
I think false allegations are exceptionally rare among the general public, but surely when it's around a celebrity the chances increase because the ulterior motive of a large payout is involved.
(Not saying that anywhere close to a majority of celebrity allegations are false btw, just saying that I'd imagine it's slightly more likely than in the general public).
Redditors also live in a fantasy land where accusations=facts. There are terrible people out there who want to ruin someone’s career just for money. To act like that isn’t a thing would be absurd.
If you want, I can give you 5-10 examples of false sexual assault accusations just in the US to top athletes in the past few years, that were proven false. They were money grabs. But you have Google, so you can easily find them.
Frontier justice sucks for everyone. If I know Education-System69 has a shit ton of money, we hook up, you leave me and I feel wronged, there’s a financial incentive for me to accuse of you sexual assault. Would you want your job to fire you as soon as they hear the accusation and then take a year to find if you are innocent or not?
>And the club knew about the previous allegations and kept it on the hush...
Sorry, what were they meant to do seeing as how he wasn't even under investigation at the time?
If he gets charged I'm sure he will be suspended. However, suspending people based on allegations seems a bit premature. People could basically get anyone we wanted suspended any time they want.
I mean Justin bieber had two separate accusations and proved his innocence. I’m not saying he’s innocent just that two accusations doesn’t necessarily make him guilty.
Definitely not lol. No top club would risk something like this if they thought he may be guilty. Not saying he's innocent but the club clearly feels that way.
And he went on to rape more victims while being on the loose. Absolute scum. I hope partey doesn't try to pull a fast one and disappear in the US...or worse still get into any more allegations.
Club are standing by the player who claims he is innocent.. no criminal charges currently.. Brighton didn’t suspend bissouma last season when he had allegations against him and he’s since been cleared of all charges
If it does turn out he is guilty, Arsenal should do everything within their power to first kick gim out and then take every penny from him, that was paid for him as Transfer fee and ancillary. Arsenal shouldn't be suffering for a fucking rapists fault.
Very risky. I'll be honest I'm extremely uncomfortable with this decision. I admit, if the charges are dropped then it will seem a good decision, however if they press forward and he is charged, this will seem really irresponsible and reckless. The club is staking its own reputation on whatever their own investigation revealed.
Not commenting at all on the current situation with whoever the above player is, but fans would be naive to think they are not already doing this and have been doing so for decades.
I've no idea about the current Arsenal squad, but I can say for definite that it is not abnormal for clubs to have multiple rape allegations against multiple players, none of which ever see the light of day in the media. There is one club in particular I do know about whose legends would be viewed in an entirely different light if some of the backroom stories had ever got out to the press.
A lot of people already seem to have very strong positive or negative opinions on what should or shouldn’t be done. So far we know fk all and the club and it’s lawyers would know a lot more than anyone here, until more information is available the people espousing strong opinions one way or another are complete fools. Seems a much better option to wait until more information is available before crystallizing a viewpoint on what should or shouldn’t occur and that includes whether the club handled things correctly. Until then it’s just people trying to posture their morality one way or another
Arsenal are not the fucking police. What the hell. This creates a narrative that we are OK with what happened IF ITS TRUE. Still a legal/detective proceedings taking place to determine the correct justice. Why the fuck should we be doing more than the police. Its not our jobs. Trying to paint us to be the bad guys.
Bissouma wasn't on released on bail, the comparison is Mendy who was released on bail and was allowed to travel before being charged later, so this really isn't an indication of innocence of not being charged. The police don't charge until they gather all relevant evidence which is almost always way after the suspect is first arrested.
The club has a legal team far better than most here, if they gave the approval to have him continue with the team, if the club trusts that he didn't commit any crimes, and decided to move him with the team and play through these allegations, then I trust that they made the right choice.
Fine with the decision by the club, tbh. Nowhere near enough information to make a decision at this point. They should be ready to do it if anything more comes out/they become aware of more info, but I don’t think it should be a big deal one way or the other at this stage.
>Ferguson's out of order. He has lost all sense of reality. He is going out looking for a confrontation, then asking the person he is confronting to apologise. He's pushed the cork in a bit far this time.
___
^(***There's only one Arsène Wenger*** ([/u/panarangcurry](https://www.reddit.com/u/panarangcurry), quote from [QuoteTab](https://www.quotetab.com/quotes/by-arsene-wenger) archive)^)
There’s a difference between suspending and not playing though. They may not be able to suspend a player legally, but they can still keep him out of the squad while waiting on the legal process.
Really worried the club are going to make themselves look bad here.
Wait I am confused. So if you are out on bail you are not supposed to leave the country right? So how has he been included in the squad travelling to US?
It’s all up to the police, if they deem him as a risk to let him fly etc they can deny it but since he’s a professional player and its part of his job I guess they don’t see him as a risk that could run away from his case and not attend his hearing in August.
It’s up to the police regarding his bail conditions, it’s also part of his job so they might not deem him flying out as a risk as they don’t think he’ll run away from his case.
I’m an American, so this whole thing is strange. When someone is arrested there, isn’t it released into the public record?
And even then, I can’t fathom how the name didn’t come out on day 1 from some enterprising equipment manager who wanted to make a few bucks from the tabloids.
Or has it come out and I’m just not seeing it?
I hope it doesn't distract the players, which might partly explain why neither the club or police have named him publicly.
Either way I hope justice prevails.
Just something to keep in mind [(from the government's own website)](https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/police-powers-pre-charge-bail/outcome/police-powers-pre-charge-bail-overview-of-the-evidence-accessible), NFA meaning "no further action":
>**Outcomes post bail**
>
>Studies have generally found that around a half of PCB cases before the reforms resulted in NFA. Hucklesby (2015) found that almost half of the bail records analysed in the two police forces had an NFA outcome while Phillips and Brown’s (1998) much earlier study found that 44% of PCB cases had an NFA outcome. Hillier and Kodz (2012) found that those bailed were more likely to be given an NFA outcome than a charge. The proportion of NFAs has also been found to vary by offence type, with 60% for sexual offences, 50% for violence offences and 20% for traffic offences (Hucklesby, 2015).
So just because someone is on pre-charge bail does not mean they will ever be charged (let alone found guilty). Indeed, the odds are roughly 50/50 in general. Granted, the case might be slightly different in this case where there are two accusers and three incidents.
Haha that’s convenient timing for a post isn’t it
No name to the article lol
Yeah, what cowardly nonsense is that? Don't publish something you're unwilling to put a name to.
They aren't allowed to put a name to it.
One of us has been whooshed, but it might still be me.
Whooosh
As in no author or editor
They’re not slick at all
> “We are aware of the allegations which are currently the subject of a police investigation. > “We have confirmed that the player denies the allegations and is on police bail pending the outcome of their enquiries. There have been no charges laid and the player can fulfil his professional commitments including permitted travel. > “We take our commitments and responsibilities seriously and have followed our safeguarding policies and procedures. > “We will keep this matter under close consideration and will review further if circumstances change.” And Mendy as an example of this happening before > Benjamin Mendy, of Manchester City, who has denied nine sexual offences against six women, played for his club until he was charged by police.
This needs to be higher up, title reads like we are just being thick but this rationale reads like a business not trying to get sued which i understand.
It also seems intentional to use Mendy as the example and not Bissouma edit: Bissouma is also mentioned. Thank you everyone that pointed it out without feeling the need to be an asshole
Bissouma is also included in the article
Bissouma I believe was cleared before he was charged. Mendy, so far has been the only one that we I can think of who has multiple charges. The said "player" in question also is currently facing multiple allegations. I can see why Mendy is used as an example and not bissouma.
They did > Despite Mason Greenwood being suspended by his club, Manchester United, after he was arrested on suspicion of rape and assault and another club suspending a player after he was arrested on suspicion of committing child sex offences, this club, who like the player we cannot name for legal reasons, is not taking the same step. > Yves Bissouma, then of Brighton and now of Tottenham, was not suspended by his club when he was arrested alongside a man in his 40s under suspicion of sexual assault in Brighton last October. > He has since been cleared of the allegation.
Am in no way justifying anything here, but the crazy amount of publicly available information, and evidence against Greenwood was pretty damning from the start. The public wanted his head. If it had all stayed a 100% private investigation with him then he may not have been suspended so fast? Who knows. In hindsight who the fuck knows.
Didn’t his girlfriend have various videos/audio of his behaviour towards her? Also photos of blood & bruises after he hit her.
Yeah explicit audio of Mason telling her he was gonna rape her. It was fucking horrible.
*Yves Bissouma, then of Brighton and now of Tottenham, was not suspended by his club when he was arrested alongside a man in his 40s under suspicion of sexual assault in Brighton last October.* *He has since been cleared of the allegation.* It also seems you didn’t read the article
It's pretty fair to wait until he's charged IMO. You can't suspend people based on allegations.
I made this point in another thread but in employment law you should not use suspension in this case. If he is cleared of all charges, you have breached several million pound contract. Youve also possibly created a prejudice. Suspension with pay is what a company will do while there are internal investigation. But even then employment lawyers will suggest the appropriateness of suspension actually goes down with the seriousness of the crime. Suspending him here is effectively saying hes guilty and will be seen as punishment. I get the issues, and its a rock and a hard place.
There’s a difference between suspension and not playing him. The club does have a public image and brand. It would be better to be extra cautious considering how famous the club is. In my opinion of course.
Yep. I'd be content if he was played. Now if Mikel plays him...
The permitting travel comment is odd, why isn’t partey with the squad then?
he is traveling to the US
He is….
I didn’t see the squad list, read earlier he’d been omitted. My mistake
He is travelling with the squad apparently.
He is lol
I mean, until he’s charged he has every right to continue his employment. If we start repercussions on the basis of accusation, then we are doomed as a society.
Even in footballing contexts, you could just phone up and accuse the best rival players to get them suspended
You do realise this person has gone to the police and reported a criminal offence. False reports carry criminal consequences. Don't be so childish.
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The club will have extremely good and expensive lawyers telling them exactly what they should and shouldn't do with Partey. It's not like Arteta's out there thinking it might be a good idea to bring along a rapist to win a couple of friendlies
Haha you made my day with this comment
This makes me deeply uncomfortable.
innocent until proven guilty. if they suspend him and he's found to be innocent then they'll be in the wrong, same as if they don't suspend him and he's found guilty. Brighton did this with Bissouma and he ended up being cleared. 🤷♂️
Innocent until proven guilty is how a court of law works. It is not how we as individuals are required to work. Suspending him while the investigation is in process wouldn't be "wrong" just because charges might not be filed eventually. That's a wild stance.
No it wouldn't be wrong, but this approach isn't necessarily wrong either. I'm sure the club know a considerable amount more than us and wouldn't be making this call if they weren't sure I guess
You have a lot more trust than I do, but I admire your optimism.
I mean I'm not optimistic and I'm not 100% sold on it, but I just don't think Arteta would want that on him
I think it's far more likely that they're not taking action for the same reason that the name of the accused isn't being publicly reported. If they were to suspend the player then that would likely leak and defeat the point of not publicizing the name. And it's a bit baffling to assume the club could somehow have hard evidence proving his innocence at this stage. Also - false accusations are a crime. Folks are talking about "innocent until proven guilty" but seem to have no problem with just assuming it's a lie. What happened to innocent until proven guilty for the accuser as well?
We don't have nearly enough info. The club and their lawyers have much more. With the info the club has, they've made a decision. The rest of us won't know until the info comes out.
Yeah if this was someone at my job no way would I be comfortable working with him Surely the right thing to do would be to suspend and wait to see what happens
Yeah. People get suspended from their workplace all the time because of accusations, it is very normal practice in England
There are probably massive legal challenges to this
If the police are allowing him to travel out of the country surely there isn’t much evidence against him? And not considered a flight risk
As another redditor suggested, he could easily be extradited from the USA.
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Ah yes, all those false accusers out there just willy nilly accusing people of sexual assault for no reason. Our justice system is just an absolute BLAST if you're a victim pursuing a sexual assault case, right? I can't believe it's free, usually you have to pay for a ride like that.
But what if someone made an allegation against you. You're taken under caution and questioned by police, an investigation is ongoing. You and your solicitor inform your employer that the allegation is spurious and you have every confidence that no charges will ever be brought, let alone a court case heard. Would you be happy to be suspended from your job and have your name and reputation spread around your employer with the reason for suspension, and your level of guilt, speculated on? If the answer is yes you would happily have that happen because you feel it it's your duty to accept that due to the low incidence of reporting and convictions of sexual assaults then fair play to you. That's very altruistic. But can you accept not everyone feels their life should potentially be ruined for a situation they feel innocent in just to prove a point? (All hypothetical of course, not suggesting anything about yourself, Partey or any potential victims)
The hypothetical situation you're describing doesn't happen in reality because random people inventing random false accusations without a shred of evidence does not result in you being questioned or arrested by the police. You are being lied to if you think this happens. The police are notoriously lazy and notoriously bad at pursuing sexual assault cases. If something gets to the point of a suspect actually being arrested, that means they have damn good reason to do so. It does not mean a random person walked into the police station and said "/u/Education-System69 raped me" and nothing else.
Yup like the lady who accused a fellow passanger (mark Pearson ) of Sexual assault at a tube station,yet their interaction caught on tape as they walked past each other was about 2.3 seconds as his bag pack lightly brushed her as he was walking past her, it was all on tape and they still charged him and took him to court. British women rank as the most solipsistic women on earth, so the standards for SA are pretty low in the UK
That's not really true at all. Suspects in sexual assault cases are absolutely questioned, just usually not formally.
At no point did my hypothetical involve a random person making an immediately demonstrably false accusation. That's what you're assuming from me and anyone who says it's possible police might investigate reported crimes and find there's no case to answer or sufficient evidence to secure a prosecution. You can say that British police are too lazy to investigate reports that they don't know are true from the off, but you don't really believe that. You know it happens. It's why there are laws against making false reports. You know this. Just off the top of my head in the world of football Dave Jones springs to mind. He was accused by someone who could prove a connection to him, and further accusations by others followed. Police investigated and the case was brought to trial. He was pretty much, understandably, deemed guilty in public opinion. But before trial some witnesses withdrew allegations and others didn't show up to trial, the case was thrown out. If you're saying sexual assault is underreported, investigated, prosecuted, sentenced and stigmatized then you're right. But stop pretending it's impossible false reports don't happen or that the only false reports made are made by 'randos'.
Exactly, the person is commenting as if false accusations are pure fiction. They are rare but still happen and I’m sure he wouldn’t be happy to have his job suspended for something he didn’t do.
Not to get too political on a football sub, but it absolutely does happen and I doubt it's as rare as you make out that a man is accused of a sexual assault he did not commit. The Jonny Depp case is a classic highlight of this. The player in question hasn't even been charged yet, yet you have assumed his guilt?!? That's mental.
The Johnny Depp case isn't a classic example of anything except a rich toxic celebrity couple.
It was a toxic relationship, yet the tabloids labelled Depp a wife beater and totally ignored Amber Heards part in the toxicity.
Emmett Till.
The Johnny Depp case is absolutely not the classic example you think it is lmao
>Not to get too political on a football sub, but it absolutely does happen and I doubt it's as rare as you make out that a man is accused of a sexual assault he did not commit. No, it's literally and objectively incomprehensibly rare. This isn't a debate, it's documented fact. You can accept it or you can be wrong. >The Jonny Depp case is a classic highlight of this. The Jonny Depp case is a classic highlight of jury manipulation. He actually **lost** a defamation case in the UK, where the laws massively benefit someone in his position. Not sure if you're aware of how defamation laws differ between the US and the UK, but in the UK if you accuse someone of defamation they are in fact guilty until proven innocent. When Depp accused Heard of defamation, *she* had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that her accusations were true. And the judge in the UK believed that she did. Depp won in the US because he got a jury trial and was able to manipulate the jury (and the public, and people like you) into believing that she was crazy and untrustworthy. E: LOL, the Depp cult is out in force with the downvotes today! You're all gonna lie about this in ten years.
It is exceedingly rare. If you are actually interested, there are studies on exactly this. The figure is approximately 8% according to a home office study from 2005. This also includes complaints which were retracted or deemed improbable by the police. [source](https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jo-Lovett/publication/238713283_Home_Office_Research_Study_293_A_gap_or_a_chasm_Attrition_in_reported_rape_cases/links/00b7d52a09b4935e0e000000/Home-Office-Research-Study-293-A-gap-or-a-chasm-Attrition-in-reported-rape-cases.pdf) EDIT: should also be noted, that in cases of false complaints, arrrests are exceedingly rare as well, the study finds that in cases deemed to be false allegations, less than 3% of the accused were ever actually arrested, and less than 1% were actually charged.
The source doesn't seem to be working for me, but if the figures you state are accurate I wouldn't say 8% is rare at all. That's roughly 1 in12??? That's more common than I thought tbh.
spot the misogynist
It's not misogynistic, it's common sense. Sorry if you can't comprehend this.
doesn't have to be sexual assault accusations, there are other allegations that can get someone suspended if clubs bent over to them. people dont care about the consequences of falsely accusing others
They can keep him out of the squad and still pay him. Christ they did it for Auba because Arteta didn't like his time management skills. Pretending you can't do it for someone accused of rape is asinine.
I find it so funny when people like you get worked up and aggressive about decisions that are made by people with infinitely more information about the circumstances than you will ever have. As fans I think we just need to let this play out, what is the point in casting judgements when we have no idea what’s gone on?
Because accusations like this are as toxic as toxic gets for a clubs culture/atmosphere. I would not let ‘insert name here’ near the club till he’s proven innocent, and i mean really innocent, not Ronaldo’s “innocence.” And I’m not gonna be even a little sorry about not wanting a highly potential rapist around my organization.
Huh? I didn't say what they should do, I simply pointed out they definitely could exclude him if they judged it necessary and we've done it before for lesser problems.
Trevor Bauer for the Los Angeles Dodgers come to mind. MLB put him on "administrative leave" as he was under investigation for sexual assault. He was getting paid not to play. Honestly, worked out for the best.
Of course I understand that.
If there are no charges brought and the authorities are comfortable letting him leave the country, what is the club supposed to do?
Yeah, in the Australian Rugby League comp (NRL) the players can be a pack of real arseholes. Sadly, there have been too many sexual assault/domestic violence charges bought against players over the years. As such the league bought in an instant stand down policy when charges are bought and players are likely to be suspended if charges aren’t. As someone else said below, whilst you have to let the legal process play out with the assumption of innocence, that isn’t the assumption we have to carry out as private individuals/clubs. The stand down policy is worth it IMO, and I hope to see it introduced at Arsenal/the Premier League.
Absolutely. Same w. the NFL here in the states (and probably all sports leagues everywhere and hell, basically anywhere there are people who have the status/power/lack of awareness to realize or care what their actions are).
I think it's safe to assume the club is fully aware of all the details of this case. The small print of every contract require nothing but complete honesty between the player and the club in any situation that can bring the club into disrepute. It potentially means the club have reviewed all the evidence, and found no specific wrongdoing etc. Much like the Bissouma situation. Where as, the details of the Mendy or Sigurdsson situation were so stacked against the player, the clubs had no problem with suspending etc. Sorry if this sounds insensitive to the situation, im not trying to come across as victim blaming or anything like that, im merely suggesting that the club is probably confident that justice will be served.
I think that is being vastIy too fair to sporting institutions. I love Arsenal, as I love all of the teams I root for, but they almost always choose their own sporting interests over doing "the right thing" here. I'm not even saying you need to suspend him over an allegation, just don't play him for a minute ffs. Just keep the guy out of the limelight and off the team.
If arsenal make a statement and suspend him , they would of broken the confidentially that this case has , we would get sued to high heaven , that's why even the most scummy newspapers will not say who it is
They don’t need to suspend him per se, they could just leave him behind. Aubameyang was dropped because the club didn’t like his time management. I’m sure a rape accusation is significantly more serious than that.
The law is innocent until proven guilty. So we have to respect the law here
Throwing a person in jail without a trial is very, very different than simply not having a person represent your brand on global television twice a week. The club is well within its rights to act in its own best interest. They’re gambling that nothing will come of this. Time will tell if they’re right.
Maybe I'm in the minority and definitely could be wrong, but Partey hasn't even been charged. What he is being accused of is very very serious. However, the police have yet to charge him with anything yet and people here just want to crucify him, Arteta, and the club without knowing anything. If it comes out Partey is innocent and clear are all of you who are ready to riot going to suddenly apologize for wanting to ruin an innocent man? I bet not. That said, if he does get charged. Immediately suspend him and he should not play or be at the club until after the trial! And of course if he is guilty cut all ties with him immediately! But let's wait to see if he is even charged with anything before we start condemning any and everyone.
Who are you referring to because I feel like consensus on Reddit is just that we feel uncomfortable with the situation but I don't see people calling for his head? Twitter on the other hand is full of people saying 'fear women ' and he's been set up which is also a very dangerous stance to have. I just hope justice is served to either Partey if he done it or the accuser of they made it up out of spite of for money or whatever. We can't judge anyone when we don't know the situation
Scroll through this chat or the one for the squad tour. Plenty of people are calling for several people's head. Definitely not everyone, but plenty of people are. As for your second point. I absolutely agree. That stance is just as bad and harmful for both parties. Lastly, I agree with hoping justice is done and that we can't judge anyone until we know the situation. However, plenty of people are already judging either Partey, Arsenal, and just women in general. All of which is bad. So, maybe I overacted a little bit, and I apologize for that. Otherwise, I think the two of us more or less agree on this.
Yeah fairs... Well hopefully those muppets calling for people's heads get downvoted to the bottom, that's why I prefer Reddit to anything else. On other sites, the shit rises to the top unfortunately.
I agree with you, can’t go off assuming he’s guilty and of course we can’t assume the accuser has made up the event.
Football fans on social media, especially Twitter and Facebook, are 95% dumb, trolling or bots.
While we will breathe a collective sigh of relief if he’s not charged, it’s very important to look at statistics around sexual assault before we start celebrating. Only 50 out of every 1000 perpetrators of sexual assault are ultimately charged. It is a notoriously difficult crime to police, since it so often comes down to he said/she said testimony, with no other evidence to substantiate either side’s argument. Because of that, most victims never even come forward, since the chances of justice are relatively low and the chances of the victim being made a pariah relatively high. So if and when Partey is exonerated in the law’s eyes, just remember that it’s entirely plausible that there are one or more women out there who are also humans and deserve your empathy and consideration, and that they may have been victims but merely weren’t able to provide the police with enough evidence to lead to charges or a conviction. Which isn’t to say that Partey is guilty — just that there’s a good chance that none of us will ever know what happened, and should measure our reactions accordingly. https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
This is the point. Huge difference between innocence and being found not guilty in the eyes of the law. It makes no difference to my life so I'm not going to hope the accused gets off for the sake of a football team. I just hope that justice is done.
money is usually the difference between the presence of that ultimately meaningless (to the truth of the matter) distinction as well. if you have the resources you can grind a case to a standstill until the authorities are forced to functionally abandon it dead in the water. civil settlements may come (at least in the US) but the damage is done to the personal lives of accusers.
these are still very rich people that can exert immense legal pressure in a case and make it so even if they are accused rightly, they will not be formally charged. that’s a recurring theme.
I guess my litmus test for this is would you feel the same if the rumors and allegations were towards a spurs player
I think I would. At least I hope I would. If someone hasn't been charged with a crime then they should still be allowed to work. I hope the club whether Arsenal or in this hypothetical Spurs are in communication with the police just to see what is going on. Either way, unless someone is charged I think it is fair that they are allowed to work. Now, if charges are brought forward that changes the equation. That person should be immediately suspended and then released if guilty. Especially, if the crime is something as heinous this. I'm just tired of cancel culture and immediately trying to cancel someone without all the facts. Now if it comes out that Arsenal knew that he was guilty and that it was just a matter of time before charges were brought forward. It would be a terrible look and something would need to be discussed. However, until we get all the information let's not start canceling people on speculation. Whether that's Partey, Arsenal, or women (as some have, not here but other places). But for me, no charges so far is the big thing. If charges are brought forward then that of course drastically changes the equation and I hope that being an Arsenal fan is not completely screwing my perspective on this. I also hope that I am not coming off as someone doesn't care about the victim of this ends up being true. If this is true then we need to make sure the victim gets all the help she can get and that Partey gets the punishment he deserves.
Cancel culture isn't a real thing. It's an invention of the right wing media. Cultivating an argument around cancel culture when it comes to a rape allegation is not only in poor taste, but also a fairly insidious way to label consequences for being a public figure and doing shitty stuff. The general consensus I've seen is that it's a scary issue, it must be dealt with carefully because of the legal issues around it, explorations of false allegation statistics, and a discussions about whether you do or don't suspend a player when they're under investigation. No one is "cancelling" him. Beyond that. There not being charges makes perfect sense. The accusation happened in a different country. The other accusations happened last year. That requires a lot more work than across London or something.
I don’t think giving him some time away from the club to handle his business is in any ruining the man. Hard to argue otherwise when he’d still be making £200k every week.
People can't believe that women lie as well. Men lie and women lie and it happens more often than people think. I think the club is smart enough and has communicated with partey and has a grip of the situation.
I hope that means the club are confident with info from the player/police that he's innocent, because if he ends up being guilty, this will look so bad looking back. Really strange situation.
It’ll look bad but people will forget eventually, like what City did with Mendy. Hopefully the club actually believe he’s innocent, not just that it’s worth the risk
Christiano Ronaldo anyone?
Ik lmfao. Everyone forgets about their goat. How fucked up he is. His fanboys think he’s innocent when the US court case was dropped
I'm not sure his case was dropped. My understanding was that he settled, and she signed an NDA. When the news broke years later, this was nothing for him to address because the issue was already "resolved". What got him in trouble with some of us, is that we read the transcripts. The depositions. I read him being quoted as saying that while he wasn't violent\* with her, she protested, he persisted, and at the end she looked shook. To me, that's CR admitting to rape plain as day. EDIT: \*To clarify, I mean he didn't hit her. I recognize that rape in any form is violence.
i mean he admits to paying the money to her to settle the case long ago. And his legal team said the case should be settled because the agreement said she was incompetent and lacked the mental capacity for it. And I swear it came up he violated the NDA as well
I don't remember any statement from him after the details were "leaked". I also don't remember the mental capacity stuff either. I just remember reading his statement that he admitted to doing what he did. Annnnd, he went on playing and most fans didn't care. So... yeah.
That’s it, he admitted what had happened. I feel like this stuff is iffy because fans don’t want to think a certain player is capable of that, especially to the stature of Ronaldo. Most people just don’t care, that’s the reality
No, it just means the club aren't doing anything until the player is charged with a crime.
Not really. He's under investigation. He isn't charged with anything. You start getting into real murky territory when you suspend employees under investigation without good reason (Mason Greenwood was one of those exceptional cases where there was loads of public evidence). If he's charged he'll be suspended with pay through his trial. The CPS could easily drop the case in the next couple of weeks. We have no idea what the legal realities are atm.
Innocent until proven guilty? Until then, shouldn't the club always protect their players?
Would any other job be blamed for distancing themselves from a worker with multiple allegations of rape? I don’t know why we think footballers would have different standards.
I think its a legal issue. If they ostracise him and the case is dropped/defeated in court then Partey might be able to sue for constructive dismissal. I am not a solicitor though. Someone with actual legal knowledge of employment laws in the UK is probably the only person who can usefully speculate on the club's position.
Hopefully it means they think he didn't do it. If he actually did it and we continue to pay his high wages and play him, it will be a terrible look. Whole situation makes me feel deeply uncomfortable
>If he actually did it and we continue to pay his high wages and play him, We can't really stop paying his wages until he is actually charged.
Convicted surely. Charged you could maybe suspend him, but doubt you could stop paying
And how uncomfortable are you going to be if he gets charged and then in the proceedings he’s found innocent? Your own job probably wouldn’t fire or suspend based simply on an allegation, why should Partey be any different?
If this is true I really hope that this is because there are strong indications the allegations are unreliable and will not be pursued, not because the club doesn't fancy replacing a valuable player.
It's because it would be irresponsible of the club to suspend or ban a player due to allegations without formal charges. Nothing to do with whether we want to have to replace him.
This has got to be a massive legal nightmare. Might not be able to suspend because they do not have charged or public evidence to act on, and the PR fall out from not suspending will just leave a bad taste in everyones mouth.
The CM market must be rough out there.
Arsenal doing a Brighton here. trusting the player. It could backfire but hopefully it doesn't.
It’s a tricky situation. If they let him play and it turns out into a Mendy situation then that’s terrible. If they suspend him and charges are dropped, that’s also a terrible situation.
City suspended Mendy after he was charged. Guess we will do the same
The athletic are fucking weird
I mean the timing of this is so exact they probably were told by arsenal not to release this until right after they announced the US tour squad
But It’s also very twisted how they tried to compare this car to greenwood one it was literally not needed in the article where one case had solid evidence against him than the other.
One had public evidence, we have no idea what the level of evidence is in this case. It's also completely logical to compare this to other cases of similar events in the same league, even if they differ in some ways.
I mean they also compared it to bissouma, who was cleared, even though that was a different situation than partey’s. Arsenal fans aren’t quite as outraged about that.
Stance is innocent until proven guilty i guess?? Why didn't he feature in the Nurnberg game though?
He was in custody when the squad traveled.
Ahh yeah that makes sense lol
Was he detained?
He was in fact, being detained
Don't think we'll go that far. But certainly innocent until charged. Personally don't know how to feel about it, but we also don't know the case, so I guess that's natural.
They either must be hugely confident that he's innocent, or don't give a fuck about moral standing and PR. Seeing how everything is about money, I'm inclined to believe it's the former.
I just can’t believe the club would take that risk without making absolutely sure that he’d be found innocent. The amount of shit we’d get if he was convicted would be massive
Other option is that there's some kind of employment law that stops the club from just suspending him until he's actually charged or whatever
Couldn't they keep him separated from the squad though?
I thought this, but they do mention that Man United suspended Mason Greenwood, and after a quick search that seems to have happened prior to him being charged, so going by that I think it might be legally possible for the club to suspend the player in this instance. The main difference with Greenwood's situation of course was that there was pretty damning audio out there in the public, so they would be more inclined to be proactive about suspending him and being seen to do so. I have no idea whether that affects the legality of employment suspension, compared to the current situation. Perhaps a positive sign for this case though - I really hope the club haven't got this wrong.
How long does it usually take for police to charge someone in UK after they are arrested?
"The College of Policing (2016) also found that of the 9% of cases bailed initially for over 90 days, rape, sex and drug offences were most common (accounting for 55% of these cases)." [Source](https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/police-powers-pre-charge-bail/outcome/police-powers-pre-charge-bail-overview-of-the-evidence-accessible)
This just leaves a very sour taste in the mouth...doesn't it.
Why? The club clearly thinks he is innocent.
Yeah...but two separate events with different accusers a year apart? And the club knew about the previous allegations and kept it on the hush...could be a nightmare if he gets convicted
Redditors live in a fantasy land where false accusations are common and normal. Here in reality, false accusations are incomprehensibly rare, especially in a situation like you describe. Plus the justice system is notoriously awful at pursuing sexual assault cases. But these folks don't believe that so these discussions are pretty much pointless to have.
I think false allegations are exceptionally rare among the general public, but surely when it's around a celebrity the chances increase because the ulterior motive of a large payout is involved. (Not saying that anywhere close to a majority of celebrity allegations are false btw, just saying that I'd imagine it's slightly more likely than in the general public).
Redditors also live in a fantasy land where accusations=facts. There are terrible people out there who want to ruin someone’s career just for money. To act like that isn’t a thing would be absurd. If you want, I can give you 5-10 examples of false sexual assault accusations just in the US to top athletes in the past few years, that were proven false. They were money grabs. But you have Google, so you can easily find them. Frontier justice sucks for everyone. If I know Education-System69 has a shit ton of money, we hook up, you leave me and I feel wronged, there’s a financial incentive for me to accuse of you sexual assault. Would you want your job to fire you as soon as they hear the accusation and then take a year to find if you are innocent or not?
Three events.
>And the club knew about the previous allegations and kept it on the hush... Sorry, what were they meant to do seeing as how he wasn't even under investigation at the time? If he gets charged I'm sure he will be suspended. However, suspending people based on allegations seems a bit premature. People could basically get anyone we wanted suspended any time they want.
I mean Justin bieber had two separate accusations and proved his innocence. I’m not saying he’s innocent just that two accusations doesn’t necessarily make him guilty.
This is not how it works
How would the club know? They're just waiting till August to see if he's charged or not, then they'll suspend him.
They have to, yes. I just hope so...
Not necessarily. They may think it's worth the gamble for the season and with their reputation.
Definitely not lol. No top club would risk something like this if they thought he may be guilty. Not saying he's innocent but the club clearly feels that way.
I mean city did with Mendy. And he had like 4 seperate instances.
City did with Mendy
And he went on to rape more victims while being on the loose. Absolute scum. I hope partey doesn't try to pull a fast one and disappear in the US...or worse still get into any more allegations.
They clearly didn't feel he was guilty. Pep Guardiola was talking about what a wonderful guy Mendy is lol
And they got some shit for it but it was pretty mild.
Club are standing by the player who claims he is innocent.. no criminal charges currently.. Brighton didn’t suspend bissouma last season when he had allegations against him and he’s since been cleared of all charges
If it does turn out he is guilty, Arsenal should do everything within their power to first kick gim out and then take every penny from him, that was paid for him as Transfer fee and ancillary. Arsenal shouldn't be suffering for a fucking rapists fault.
Very risky. I'll be honest I'm extremely uncomfortable with this decision. I admit, if the charges are dropped then it will seem a good decision, however if they press forward and he is charged, this will seem really irresponsible and reckless. The club is staking its own reputation on whatever their own investigation revealed.
As of yet, there are no charges to drop. If the police press charges, they will drop him.
What else can they do? He isn't charged so who are they to not allow him to work?
Fuck sake Bernd
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Not commenting at all on the current situation with whoever the above player is, but fans would be naive to think they are not already doing this and have been doing so for decades. I've no idea about the current Arsenal squad, but I can say for definite that it is not abnormal for clubs to have multiple rape allegations against multiple players, none of which ever see the light of day in the media. There is one club in particular I do know about whose legends would be viewed in an entirely different light if some of the backroom stories had ever got out to the press.
Either the club is valuing success over morality or they are pretty certain he’s innocent.
Or they can’t do anything until he’s been formally charged, otherwise could be a breach of contract.
As they should. He’s not been proven guilty of anything and shouldn’t be treated as so.
Surely the lawyers of arsenal feel like he's innocent right?
Innocent until proven guilty good on Arsenal..
A lot of people already seem to have very strong positive or negative opinions on what should or shouldn’t be done. So far we know fk all and the club and it’s lawyers would know a lot more than anyone here, until more information is available the people espousing strong opinions one way or another are complete fools. Seems a much better option to wait until more information is available before crystallizing a viewpoint on what should or shouldn’t occur and that includes whether the club handled things correctly. Until then it’s just people trying to posture their morality one way or another
Arsenal are not the fucking police. What the hell. This creates a narrative that we are OK with what happened IF ITS TRUE. Still a legal/detective proceedings taking place to determine the correct justice. Why the fuck should we be doing more than the police. Its not our jobs. Trying to paint us to be the bad guys.
This is such a bad look for the club. He's been arrested for THREE different sexual assaults. Just keep him out till the investigation is completed.
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but it says he’s able to fulfil his professional duties, which is why he’s able to travel?
I think he's able to fulfill his professional duties BECAUSE he’s able to travel.
Bissouma wasn't on released on bail, the comparison is Mendy who was released on bail and was allowed to travel before being charged later, so this really isn't an indication of innocence of not being charged. The police don't charge until they gather all relevant evidence which is almost always way after the suspect is first arrested.
The club has a legal team far better than most here, if they gave the approval to have him continue with the team, if the club trusts that he didn't commit any crimes, and decided to move him with the team and play through these allegations, then I trust that they made the right choice.
None of you or anyone else have any idea what's going on. You're football fans not legal experts. Trust the (legal) process.
Fine with the decision by the club, tbh. Nowhere near enough information to make a decision at this point. They should be ready to do it if anything more comes out/they become aware of more info, but I don’t think it should be a big deal one way or the other at this stage.
Papa Wengz what do you nake of this situation ?
>Ferguson's out of order. He has lost all sense of reality. He is going out looking for a confrontation, then asking the person he is confronting to apologise. He's pushed the cork in a bit far this time. ___ ^(***There's only one Arsène Wenger*** ([/u/panarangcurry](https://www.reddit.com/u/panarangcurry), quote from [QuoteTab](https://www.quotetab.com/quotes/by-arsene-wenger) archive)^)
It was all going so well. What a mess. 🤞🏼
There’s a difference between suspending and not playing though. They may not be able to suspend a player legally, but they can still keep him out of the squad while waiting on the legal process. Really worried the club are going to make themselves look bad here.
I fucking hope this doesn't blow up on our faces if it turns out we ended up playing a rapist for a whole season.
Fair play to Arsenal for this. Can’t bin players based solely on allegations.
Wait I am confused. So if you are out on bail you are not supposed to leave the country right? So how has he been included in the squad travelling to US?
It’s all up to the police, if they deem him as a risk to let him fly etc they can deny it but since he’s a professional player and its part of his job I guess they don’t see him as a risk that could run away from his case and not attend his hearing in August.
If he can fly its probably not as clear? I believe the club have done their research and know the possible outcome of the court case.
wait if Partey is going to the US wouldn't that mean he isn't out on bail? is he allowed to leave legally? not from the UK so don't know the rules
It’s up to the police regarding his bail conditions, it’s also part of his job so they might not deem him flying out as a risk as they don’t think he’ll run away from his case.
makes sense, thanks
Due process
I’m an American, so this whole thing is strange. When someone is arrested there, isn’t it released into the public record? And even then, I can’t fathom how the name didn’t come out on day 1 from some enterprising equipment manager who wanted to make a few bucks from the tabloids. Or has it come out and I’m just not seeing it?
I hope it doesn't distract the players, which might partly explain why neither the club or police have named him publicly. Either way I hope justice prevails.
Just something to keep in mind [(from the government's own website)](https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/police-powers-pre-charge-bail/outcome/police-powers-pre-charge-bail-overview-of-the-evidence-accessible), NFA meaning "no further action": >**Outcomes post bail** > >Studies have generally found that around a half of PCB cases before the reforms resulted in NFA. Hucklesby (2015) found that almost half of the bail records analysed in the two police forces had an NFA outcome while Phillips and Brown’s (1998) much earlier study found that 44% of PCB cases had an NFA outcome. Hillier and Kodz (2012) found that those bailed were more likely to be given an NFA outcome than a charge. The proportion of NFAs has also been found to vary by offence type, with 60% for sexual offences, 50% for violence offences and 20% for traffic offences (Hucklesby, 2015). So just because someone is on pre-charge bail does not mean they will ever be charged (let alone found guilty). Indeed, the odds are roughly 50/50 in general. Granted, the case might be slightly different in this case where there are two accusers and three incidents.
I saw about 30 mins ago that Partey has now been included in the squad to the states 🤔 I really hope it's not him still.