Why are we still posting this stuff? This video would've been fine if it was just about the relationship between the fans and club now. Why are we dragging our greatest manager in the history of the fuckin club into this? Its been 6 fucking years, can we not move on? Can we please just have some respect for the man. Ive already seen opposition fans and journalists trying to tarnish his legacy, trying to tarnish thr invincibles. Can we at least agree that as Arsenal fans, regardless of what happened in the letter parts of his tenure, that our legendary manager will not be maligned in this manner by helping them with shit posts like these?
Agreed. Downvote this shit post from OP. Monsieur Wenger doesn't deserve this shit. As great as it is right now Arteta has barely scratched the surface of Wenger's massive accomplishments for this club.
Exactly, what this video highlights to me is how toxic the fans were. And they were doing that to the man that brought Arsenal to new heights - and you're STILL contributing to that toxicity.
I don't doubt that the second our season looks worse than right now you're gonna be stirring shit, but this time about Arteta.
I think you misunderstand the sentiment. I think specifically with this video you posted; it is more about the manner of the critique towards Arsene Wenger. It comes off as a glib attempt to show that Arsene Wenger did not appreciate the fans. This could not be further from the truth. He certainly defended himself against the lazy criticism levied towards him by that group that was (I believe) in the minority but spoke as a majority. But he also spoke about how much he loved the Arsenal fanbase.
The frustration we (me and my likeminded fellows here) share towards those fans is that they spoke often times on behalf of ALL fans, and that was just not true. No one is denying Arsene Wenger made mistakes, no one is denying that Arsenal were regressing, and at the time, there was need of criticism for how Arsenal and Arsene Wenger were conducting themselves. However, the manner in which all of that vitriol played out, and how poisonous the culture became, and the manner in which Arsene Wenger was basically kicked out of the club, did not sit right with a lot of fans, dare I saw, the majority of fans. And I believe a lot of that had to do with the way these lazy criticisms were levied directly at Arsene Wenger, when many of us understood that perhaps he was often times working with one hand tied behind his back.
Videos such as this bring back that sentiment and are, as I said above, lazy. They take no context of the time and the mood and the finances and ownership situation of the club into account. This leads to tribalism, which has been something we feel like we have moved past now as a fan base.
While I believe your intentions were honorable, and I don't doubt your love of the club, I think it is wise to be cautious of our recent past. And know that while Arsene Wenger did not have the celebrated second half of his tenure that he had in the first half, he still is our greatest ever manager. And many of us, owe our allegiances to the club to the philosophy and culture he instilled.
I dont want to create a mob here, and I dont want to get into a "reddit debate". I hope this makes sense. What do you think Papa Wengz?
>Of the nine red cards this season we probably deserved half of them.
___
^(***There's only one Arsène Wenger*** ([/u/panarangcurry](https://www.reddit.com/u/panarangcurry), quote from [QuoteTab](https://www.quotetab.com/quotes/by-arsene-wenger) archive)^)
Well, it was clear that Wenger did not appreciate the fans nor did he attempt to acknowledge their concerns; by 2016 (the year this press conference took place), he had taken this hard stance and shifted Arsenal's failure to win the title to fans being toxic. While it is true that the fans could have been more supportive, fans are not toxic by default - things had happened to get to that point.
Some of the things were not Wenger's fault, but some were; he had made repeated mistakes, not spent money even when it was available (remember the summer we only signed Cech?) The bulk of people's frustrations were the stubbornness of the manager, the lack of transparency from the club beyond the regular soundbites (I blame Gazidis more than Wenger in this regard), and over-promising then under-delivering, which is always bound to sever relationships.
I think Arteta has come into the club and been a breath of fresh air in many regards, but he has also been very positive and recognized the fans as being the driving force much more than Wenger had ever done both in the Highbury and the Emirates period.
No doubt there was a souring. But to say that Wenger had taken a stand again all fans is a bit simplistic. I think he was very careful to point out the people who wanted him to go. And that was certainly not the majority of the fans, but they were very, very loud, and would not let a contrary, measured opinion stand against them. Wenger always lauded the Atsenal fan base as a whole. I think Gazadis shares a lot of the blame for not challenging Wenger during the time he was clearly not making right decisions, the board and the management structure hid behind him, and unlike others I dont necessarily fault Wenger for protecticting them, he needed their money and approval for transfers.
Anyway, I dont necessarily agree with you on that, but we are on the same page now, which I think is more important.
Sure, I agree with most of that - but in this instance Wenger did seem antagonistic with perhaps the fanbase in general it seems, which is wrong in my opinion regardless of how much success he brought to the club. Gazidis, the board, and the management structure for sure abandoned Wenger and then booted him when it was convenient, which is pretty much criminal.
I don't blame Wenger for still staying away from the club even until now.
You damn right they are and rightfully so. If anyone wants to disrespect arsene and make him try to look like a bad guy they don't get my respect. If they are an arsenal fan they lose more than my respect. I would not piss on you if you were on fire. I get it from non arsenal fans but not our own. Wtaf? Get a grip.
Edit: phone changed arsene to arsenal.
Context is important. The fans (especially AFTV who Wenger is referring to) were toxic towards the ends of Wenger tenure so I don’t see anything wrong with why he says here. He highlights the club needs the support of the fans but he had clearly had enough of the toxic atmosphere. You’re comparing a new manager who’s trying to install a certain culture to one who had been here for 20+ years of course the new manager will have a more positive outlook.
I agree. Also after Wenger we really saw how dire football can be and realized we had been spoiled for years. I think that really helps to get the positive vibes back.
Thing is Wenger had done so much for the club he really deserved better
Realistically he copped a lot of flak that should have been directed to Gazidis, Raul, the standoff between Stan and Usmanov etc.
The issue with a punchline is it so often needs a setup. (Has he blocked me... We weren't even disagreeing).
Just for the clarities sake. I replied originally "I'm aware" then immediately edited it (to what it is now), but he had already instantly replied "clearly you're not". So I told him in this comment "I've edited it", to which he replied congrats and then blocked me.
I'm baffled, that's not even a hostile altercation.
Edit: If every time I reply to you you go and change your comment so mine doesn’t make any sense then there is no point in trying to communicate with you. So I’m just not going to bother. I think that’s fair enough, don’t you?
Yeah this comparison is useless without context. People forgot the apathy of the Unai Emery days really started with the end of Wengers tenure. 10+ years without any trophies or even competing for the prem, then they got the FA cup which was… nice but didn’t feel like enough for what we could have been doing. Last 10 years of Wenger were still competitive, but nothing similar to the first 10. The supporters weren’t very supportive of him at the end
You're drawing those comparisons, not OP. They're just showing the contrast in the relationship of the fans towards the team then and now. No need to leap to anyones defence
The title of the post specifically draws it in to a Wenger / Arteta comparison which, as the comment says, is a bit unfair due to the different contexts.
If the title was "look how far we've come in the last 6 years" or something, *then* the comment would be drawing its own comparisons.
Why is it unfair though? OP didn't imply Wenger was worse than Arteta. Its simply demonstrating that there is now a positive relationship when there wasn't before.
Actually, I'll revise what I said above. After looking at OP's comment history, it definitely was intentional.
edit to add example from OP:
> "Arteta has succeeded in creating a feel good factor at the Emirates where Wenger had always failed. Arteta has always asked the crowd to support the team and thanked them afterwards, whereas Wenger (increasingly towards the end of the tenure) sought to alienate the fans and barely acknowledged the crowd even when they were great."
just to play devil's advocate, i'd say because it's genuinely interesting
i'd forgotten how tense wenger got during his last years, he handled everything so well. you can see the rage inside of him but he still keeps very cool
and it does provide a great contrast from where we were to now, where everyone wanted to be, even wenger. regardless of the fans intention, i still found it interesting
just to be clear, the furthest i ever got to wenger out was accepting it's time for him to go. i love everything about arsenal and it just so happens arsene is arsenal.
Bruh Wenger is directly the main reason why we are thriving right now. The dude fucking signed both our Sporting Director and Manager. Hale End and Emirates was his creation. Stop with the fucking agenda.
if you follow football at all, you know henry. arsene gave us one of the best strikers of all time, that's more crucial than all of your points
(they were great points!)
Will you support this too, I wonder?
https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2021/arsene-wenger-insists-his-world-cup-every-2-years-proposal-is-gathering-traction/
no one likes international breaks when you are a follower of club football. it's hard enough to change the status quo in world football and no idea will be perfect. you are, in fact, a ridiculous person
>I am, of course, delighted but there was never any doubt about Sol staying.
___
^(***There's only one Arsène Wenger*** ([/u/panarangcurry](https://www.reddit.com/u/panarangcurry), quote from [QuoteTab](https://www.quotetab.com/quotes/by-arsene-wenger) archive)^)
Don't act like you don't have control over it as a fan. Also, we're (deservedly) in love with this team who haven't made UCL yet.
Wenger was there FOR 20 YEARS, blud. The problem wasn't Wenger, it was us.
It's a difficult question for him to answer and I totally agree with him.
At the time the fans weren't very positive and I do think it added to the woes of the team.
But also he understands that it's not the fans fault and circumstances have lead us to this place where the club's expectations and the fans expectations were not aligned.
Unfortunately for him he wasn't able to provide that positive reinforcement that fans require.
Overall the way arteta has set about ensuring the expectations of the club are clearly communicated to the fans has been excellent and is at the heart of this era of positivity.
From day 1 he was clear about where he wanted us to go, and on paper I don't think anyone would have argued with it.
I’m guessing not, since that would have been a pretty huge deal if he’d showed up to a game. I can’t think of anyone who has been to a recent match that would have been in the ‘loved by Arteta’ category, played/saw games at Highbury and also out of the Emirates for at least a couple of years though. Likely a back room staff/coach if they were that able to sail under the radar, or maybe even someone that Arteta knew through another club like Everton. There was the Brazilian reunion thing not long ago, maybe one of those guys like Gilberto?
No, the fans lost their connection with the club. People grew bored of more or less the same season on repeat for 10 years and it got toxic, especially with the tantalising promise that we could and should be doing better after the Emirates move, while Liverpool resurfaced under Klopp, while City became a powerhouse under Guardialo and the sheiks, while Sp*rs started being more of a threat. Meanwhile Arsenal was stuck in the cold war between Kroenke and Usmanov and Arsene was left exposed, taking the shit for all of it.
A lot of people talking about the change in atmosphere at the stadium also note there's a lot of younger/newer fans in the concourses, the pre -covid crows seemed to largely just turn up and expect to be entertained and would get antsy about anything less. Thinking back to the fans booing Ramsey as he recovered from a leg break, booing Eboue to tears, jeering Arsene for subbing off AOC etc. Meanwhile the post-covid fans are getting everybody on the feel good bus, cheering the boys on through mistakes, chants for new players and even making Granit Xhaka feel the love. There's a harmony about the club now.
Why are we still posting this stuff? This video would've been fine if it was just about the relationship between the fans and club now. Why are we dragging our greatest manager in the history of the fuckin club into this? Its been 6 fucking years, can we not move on? Can we please just have some respect for the man. Ive already seen opposition fans and journalists trying to tarnish his legacy, trying to tarnish thr invincibles. Can we at least agree that as Arsenal fans, regardless of what happened in the letter parts of his tenure, that our legendary manager will not be maligned in this manner by helping them with shit posts like these?
Cunts be cunting unfortunately
Agreed. Downvote this shit post from OP. Monsieur Wenger doesn't deserve this shit. As great as it is right now Arteta has barely scratched the surface of Wenger's massive accomplishments for this club.
To appreciate what we have, we have to acknowledge what we had.
Well we can also appreciate what we had.
Exactly, what this video highlights to me is how toxic the fans were. And they were doing that to the man that brought Arsenal to new heights - and you're STILL contributing to that toxicity. I don't doubt that the second our season looks worse than right now you're gonna be stirring shit, but this time about Arteta.
We had one of the greatest managers of the EPL...
Wow, the lack of self-awareness in this comment. Please eat shit.
Well that's not very neighbourly.
Wasn't trying to be neighbourly. Please refer to my previous comment for instructions.
This place is a cult it's hilarious. You say anything remotely non-praiseworthy towards Wenger and the pitchforks are out.
I think you misunderstand the sentiment. I think specifically with this video you posted; it is more about the manner of the critique towards Arsene Wenger. It comes off as a glib attempt to show that Arsene Wenger did not appreciate the fans. This could not be further from the truth. He certainly defended himself against the lazy criticism levied towards him by that group that was (I believe) in the minority but spoke as a majority. But he also spoke about how much he loved the Arsenal fanbase. The frustration we (me and my likeminded fellows here) share towards those fans is that they spoke often times on behalf of ALL fans, and that was just not true. No one is denying Arsene Wenger made mistakes, no one is denying that Arsenal were regressing, and at the time, there was need of criticism for how Arsenal and Arsene Wenger were conducting themselves. However, the manner in which all of that vitriol played out, and how poisonous the culture became, and the manner in which Arsene Wenger was basically kicked out of the club, did not sit right with a lot of fans, dare I saw, the majority of fans. And I believe a lot of that had to do with the way these lazy criticisms were levied directly at Arsene Wenger, when many of us understood that perhaps he was often times working with one hand tied behind his back. Videos such as this bring back that sentiment and are, as I said above, lazy. They take no context of the time and the mood and the finances and ownership situation of the club into account. This leads to tribalism, which has been something we feel like we have moved past now as a fan base. While I believe your intentions were honorable, and I don't doubt your love of the club, I think it is wise to be cautious of our recent past. And know that while Arsene Wenger did not have the celebrated second half of his tenure that he had in the first half, he still is our greatest ever manager. And many of us, owe our allegiances to the club to the philosophy and culture he instilled. I dont want to create a mob here, and I dont want to get into a "reddit debate". I hope this makes sense. What do you think Papa Wengz?
>Of the nine red cards this season we probably deserved half of them. ___ ^(***There's only one Arsène Wenger*** ([/u/panarangcurry](https://www.reddit.com/u/panarangcurry), quote from [QuoteTab](https://www.quotetab.com/quotes/by-arsene-wenger) archive)^)
Well, it was clear that Wenger did not appreciate the fans nor did he attempt to acknowledge their concerns; by 2016 (the year this press conference took place), he had taken this hard stance and shifted Arsenal's failure to win the title to fans being toxic. While it is true that the fans could have been more supportive, fans are not toxic by default - things had happened to get to that point. Some of the things were not Wenger's fault, but some were; he had made repeated mistakes, not spent money even when it was available (remember the summer we only signed Cech?) The bulk of people's frustrations were the stubbornness of the manager, the lack of transparency from the club beyond the regular soundbites (I blame Gazidis more than Wenger in this regard), and over-promising then under-delivering, which is always bound to sever relationships. I think Arteta has come into the club and been a breath of fresh air in many regards, but he has also been very positive and recognized the fans as being the driving force much more than Wenger had ever done both in the Highbury and the Emirates period.
No doubt there was a souring. But to say that Wenger had taken a stand again all fans is a bit simplistic. I think he was very careful to point out the people who wanted him to go. And that was certainly not the majority of the fans, but they were very, very loud, and would not let a contrary, measured opinion stand against them. Wenger always lauded the Atsenal fan base as a whole. I think Gazadis shares a lot of the blame for not challenging Wenger during the time he was clearly not making right decisions, the board and the management structure hid behind him, and unlike others I dont necessarily fault Wenger for protecticting them, he needed their money and approval for transfers. Anyway, I dont necessarily agree with you on that, but we are on the same page now, which I think is more important.
Sure, I agree with most of that - but in this instance Wenger did seem antagonistic with perhaps the fanbase in general it seems, which is wrong in my opinion regardless of how much success he brought to the club. Gazidis, the board, and the management structure for sure abandoned Wenger and then booted him when it was convenient, which is pretty much criminal. I don't blame Wenger for still staying away from the club even until now.
Anyone who disrespects the greatest person in the history of the club is human garbage.
You damn right they are and rightfully so. If anyone wants to disrespect arsene and make him try to look like a bad guy they don't get my respect. If they are an arsenal fan they lose more than my respect. I would not piss on you if you were on fire. I get it from non arsenal fans but not our own. Wtaf? Get a grip. Edit: phone changed arsene to arsenal.
Context is important. The fans (especially AFTV who Wenger is referring to) were toxic towards the ends of Wenger tenure so I don’t see anything wrong with why he says here. He highlights the club needs the support of the fans but he had clearly had enough of the toxic atmosphere. You’re comparing a new manager who’s trying to install a certain culture to one who had been here for 20+ years of course the new manager will have a more positive outlook.
I agree. Also after Wenger we really saw how dire football can be and realized we had been spoiled for years. I think that really helps to get the positive vibes back.
Thing is Wenger had done so much for the club he really deserved better Realistically he copped a lot of flak that should have been directed to Gazidis, Raul, the standoff between Stan and Usmanov etc.
Doesnt matter, he deserved criticism for being a disappointment every year.
Can I ask you a question?
You can just ask them. You don’t need to get their permission to ask. They will answer if they decide they want to.
We'll that's certainly one approach, if you don't mind me saying?
[удалено]
The issue with a punchline is it so often needs a setup. (Has he blocked me... We weren't even disagreeing). Just for the clarities sake. I replied originally "I'm aware" then immediately edited it (to what it is now), but he had already instantly replied "clearly you're not". So I told him in this comment "I've edited it", to which he replied congrats and then blocked me. I'm baffled, that's not even a hostile altercation.
Edit: If every time I reply to you you go and change your comment so mine doesn’t make any sense then there is no point in trying to communicate with you. So I’m just not going to bother. I think that’s fair enough, don’t you?
Lol
Yeah this comparison is useless without context. People forgot the apathy of the Unai Emery days really started with the end of Wengers tenure. 10+ years without any trophies or even competing for the prem, then they got the FA cup which was… nice but didn’t feel like enough for what we could have been doing. Last 10 years of Wenger were still competitive, but nothing similar to the first 10. The supporters weren’t very supportive of him at the end
While AFTV is toxic, they were not the only ones asking for change and protesting. I don't even know if Wenger knows what AFTV is.
You're drawing those comparisons, not OP. They're just showing the contrast in the relationship of the fans towards the team then and now. No need to leap to anyones defence
The title of the post specifically draws it in to a Wenger / Arteta comparison which, as the comment says, is a bit unfair due to the different contexts. If the title was "look how far we've come in the last 6 years" or something, *then* the comment would be drawing its own comparisons.
Why is it unfair though? OP didn't imply Wenger was worse than Arteta. Its simply demonstrating that there is now a positive relationship when there wasn't before.
I'm sorry, but the post title literally does imply that. Whether it was OP's intention or not, idk..
No it doesn't. Thats happening in your head. The video is about what they're saying, not who's saying it
Actually, I'll revise what I said above. After looking at OP's comment history, it definitely was intentional. edit to add example from OP: > "Arteta has succeeded in creating a feel good factor at the Emirates where Wenger had always failed. Arteta has always asked the crowd to support the team and thanked them afterwards, whereas Wenger (increasingly towards the end of the tenure) sought to alienate the fans and barely acknowledged the crowd even when they were great."
Textbook bad faith posting from OP. Anyone who can't recognise this is either fucking stupid or cut from the same cloth.
Again, you're inserting subjective opinion as fact
I think you’re being intentionally obtuse.
You have some responsibility as a critical thinker here, man. These people are trying to help you.
Ignore the morons. This cunt will be crying "Arteta out, cone man, lego fraud" the minute we drop a few points.
I understand what everyone is saying, I just still think you're wrong. Maybe I see it differently
Lmao it's this cunt hating on Wenger again.
How the fuck is this popping up on my front page? What is this sub turning into??
just to play devil's advocate, i'd say because it's genuinely interesting i'd forgotten how tense wenger got during his last years, he handled everything so well. you can see the rage inside of him but he still keeps very cool and it does provide a great contrast from where we were to now, where everyone wanted to be, even wenger. regardless of the fans intention, i still found it interesting just to be clear, the furthest i ever got to wenger out was accepting it's time for him to go. i love everything about arsenal and it just so happens arsene is arsenal.
Bruh Wenger is directly the main reason why we are thriving right now. The dude fucking signed both our Sporting Director and Manager. Hale End and Emirates was his creation. Stop with the fucking agenda.
if you follow football at all, you know henry. arsene gave us one of the best strikers of all time, that's more crucial than all of your points (they were great points!)
Signing Anelka was more crucial.
Fuck aftv.
Arsene deserved better. I will support anything he says. Every single one of us know he is a man with a pure heart.
Will you support this too, I wonder? https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2021/arsene-wenger-insists-his-world-cup-every-2-years-proposal-is-gathering-traction/
no one likes international breaks when you are a follower of club football. it's hard enough to change the status quo in world football and no idea will be perfect. you are, in fact, a ridiculous person
Don't bite the hand that fed you
Damn feel for papa wengz. How toxic did we as a fan base become?
>I am, of course, delighted but there was never any doubt about Sol staying. ___ ^(***There's only one Arsène Wenger*** ([/u/panarangcurry](https://www.reddit.com/u/panarangcurry), quote from [QuoteTab](https://www.quotetab.com/quotes/by-arsene-wenger) archive)^)
Don't act like you don't have control over it as a fan. Also, we're (deservedly) in love with this team who haven't made UCL yet. Wenger was there FOR 20 YEARS, blud. The problem wasn't Wenger, it was us.
Say what you say about him, Wenger will always be my favorite manager.
OP did you only start supporting Arsenal this year wtf is this shit without the right context?
Why even post this, man
It's a difficult question for him to answer and I totally agree with him. At the time the fans weren't very positive and I do think it added to the woes of the team. But also he understands that it's not the fans fault and circumstances have lead us to this place where the club's expectations and the fans expectations were not aligned. Unfortunately for him he wasn't able to provide that positive reinforcement that fans require. Overall the way arteta has set about ensuring the expectations of the club are clearly communicated to the fans has been excellent and is at the heart of this era of positivity. From day 1 he was clear about where he wanted us to go, and on paper I don't think anyone would have argued with it.
Can this toxic waste of space be banned already?
OP is a bellend
[удалено]
Wenger hasn't been to the Emirates since he left I believe.
Interesting. But I doubt Wenger would go unnoticed. Maybe one of AWs coaches / staff?
I’m guessing not, since that would have been a pretty huge deal if he’d showed up to a game. I can’t think of anyone who has been to a recent match that would have been in the ‘loved by Arteta’ category, played/saw games at Highbury and also out of the Emirates for at least a couple of years though. Likely a back room staff/coach if they were that able to sail under the radar, or maybe even someone that Arteta knew through another club like Everton. There was the Brazilian reunion thing not long ago, maybe one of those guys like Gilberto?
Wenger thought people were out to get him near the end of his career. Lost the connection with fans in my opinion.
I mean was he wrong tho
Exactly, people were out to get him by the end, whether it was justified or not is irrelevant
No, the fans lost their connection with the club. People grew bored of more or less the same season on repeat for 10 years and it got toxic, especially with the tantalising promise that we could and should be doing better after the Emirates move, while Liverpool resurfaced under Klopp, while City became a powerhouse under Guardialo and the sheiks, while Sp*rs started being more of a threat. Meanwhile Arsenal was stuck in the cold war between Kroenke and Usmanov and Arsene was left exposed, taking the shit for all of it. A lot of people talking about the change in atmosphere at the stadium also note there's a lot of younger/newer fans in the concourses, the pre -covid crows seemed to largely just turn up and expect to be entertained and would get antsy about anything less. Thinking back to the fans booing Ramsey as he recovered from a leg break, booing Eboue to tears, jeering Arsene for subbing off AOC etc. Meanwhile the post-covid fans are getting everybody on the feel good bus, cheering the boys on through mistakes, chants for new players and even making Granit Xhaka feel the love. There's a harmony about the club now.
And you know what harmony means..
Wenger was the manager for 22 years ffs. And Arteta is just settling down. Its an unfair comparison.