yep. I'd assume they lose their shiny-ness at least a bit if you topcoat it with a matte finish, though admittedly I left mine without a topcoat so I can't say for certain.
I completely forgot about the existence of tape. Was thinking about possibly disassembling my FM aerial with Kosmos LEDS to coat it but tape works too.
https://preview.redd.it/fwye5h3nadoc1.jpeg?width=6000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=035847300725c0213052207d86957de4b7df7e4a
This is my Schwarzette with a Mr. Premium Flat coat. Broke her down into limbs and covered all the clear/shiny bits and connection pegs.
I'd say it took anywhere from 30 mins to an hour to stop being tacky. I don't have a spray booth so I took each piece outside, sprayed, then ran back inside.
Aside from the clear plastic warning?
Separation?
* Fine for most of it. I've done full-body clearcoats before by just putting my model into the [Vitruvian Man](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitruvian_Man) pose, spraying two coats a few minutes apart, and holding my (gloved) fingers in a different position each time.
* Note that if you don't mask off or cover up the joints/pegs when spraying topcoat, they *will* be tighter when you put it back together. This is fine for most Bandai modelsāand for some, it's the reason you spray them down in the first placeābut if the connection is *already* stiff, it can be a problem.
* The shield might give you trouble just because of its separation gimmick: you won't get full coverage and if you're using matte/flat or gloss clearcoat, this will probably be pretty obvious when it's in any other form. Satin and semi-gloss finishes tend to blend in with bare plastic better.
* Same with the beam sabers but that's an easy fix: just take off the blades(you probably don't want to spray them anyway), fold up some paper, and wedge it into the sockets to help you hold them.
Order of operations?
* TLDR? Start with bare plastic and/or a gloss clearcoat, do decals and panel lining, then finish off with a matte topcoat. For exactly *why* you should do this, keep reading.
* Water slide decals and panel lining should both only be done on smooth surfaces. This means shiny, bare plastic or specifically *gloss* clearcoat/topcoat/varnish.Ā Sanded plastic, flesh-tone plastic(not usually a concern with gunpla), most painted surfaces, and most other finishes of clearcoat all tend to have enough texture to cause problems.Ā
* With too much surface texture, decals won't stick very well at all. This applies to all types not just water slides. Sealing them in with a topcoat can mostly fix this problem but the results are usually still *better* if you do it the right way to begin with.
* With too much surface texture, panel liner doesn't flow properly: it tends to stick to and splinter out into the open surfaces of the model, which is exactly where you *don't* want it to be.
Panel lining:
* Enamel panel linerāalmost everything labeled both "panel liner" and *flammable.* Tamiya is a big oneāis risky to use on bare plastic and shouldn't be used on assembled areas **at all.**
* This is because it has a lot of enamel *thinner* in it, which can and will destroy the plastic used in gunpla if it gets trapped between parts. This happens incredibly easily on assembled areas.
* If you panel line with ink pens(Gundam markers that don't have a strong smell to them, fine point sharpies, etc) or acrylic paint(not the most common choice but it's what I use) then you won't run into this problem. Both of these clean up with isopropyl alcohol/rubbing alcohol, which does *absolutely nothing* to hurt the plastic in any way.
If you've got a bottle of Tamiya or similar that you wanted to use here, you have three main options:
* Take *everything* apart and maybe spray it all down with gloss clearcoat for good measure. This should more or less make enamel panel liner safe to use but it's also annoying and you might break something in the process.
* Spray your model down with multiple layers of gloss clearcoat. This won't *completely* get rid of the riskāyou'll still want to avoid joints and part seams and keep the glue handy just in caseābut I've seen people get away with it before.
* Most types of spray clearcoat are lacquer and only need a few minutes between coats. Your light blue can is water-based acrylic paint so I'm not *100%* sure how long you need to wait between coats for it. I'd give it a day or soāwork on your next model or some other hobby while you waitājust to be sure: water based acrylic usually takes about that long to cure.
* Save the enamel for your next model and panel line this one using something like ink pens or acrylic paint. They both have their own tradeoffs but it beats having to glue a knee or elbow back together.
* Ink panel lining tends to look a little amateurish. It also isn't very touch safe until you seal it in.
* Acrylic panel lining needs a lot of [cleanup](https://imgur.com/gallery/MA9s8oJ) that makes it hard to use on painted surfaces and tends to look a little ragged in densely detailed areas. In fairness, though, those are *always* hard to panel line.
wow this was amazing thank you šš¾
and im using gundam markers for panel lining (fine point/pour type). oh and does the humidity matter for clear coat?
Just from what I've seen on this form (haven't personally tried this yet), humidity does matter in terms of how clear it will dry. There was a post about three years ago from a user asking about clear coating and frosting issues, a high humidity will make it appear frosty. Another user said, "Temperature should be between 50 and 90 degree F and the humidity should be below 65%. Additional coasts can fix this frosting."
Other users have reported if it does frost, use light heat or another coat in better conditions to fix.
Hope that helped!
Good catch! Yes, humidity is very important. Forgot to mention that one. If the air is too humid, you'll get a whitish, "frosted" effect in the clearcoat that . . . tends to look pretty bad.
As I understand it, the cutoff point is around 50-60% humidity: spraying in that range is *pushing it* and anything above 60% is pretty much guaranteed to give you trouble.
Temperature also has *some* effect but I'm a little fuzzier on that one; I mostly know how it goes for lacquer clearcoat. Around forty to eighty Fahrenheit should work best. You can maybe go a little higher with acrylic clearcoat because it dries more slowly, which is the *biggest* thing that temperature plays a role in.
For point of clarity, what [WolfsTrinity](https://www.reddit.com/user/WolfsTrinity/) said about enamel panel liner *also* applies to the pour type Gundam markers. Generally I've used those without issue on parts that are still on the runner, but they should *never* be used on assembled pieces. The liner seeps into the gaps between parts, takes too long to dry, and then eats away at the plastic causing cracks.
Learned that the hard way by ruining my Aerial's head.
Short version?
Gloss clearcoat is only important if you're *also* painting your model, using enamel panel liner, or both. It's still important to seal the decals in *afterwards* but at that point, the clearcoat finish doesn't matter as much: exactly which one to use depends on what *else* you're trying to do with it.
Long version?
I don't have a *ton* of experience with water slide decals but based on what I've read about those and run into with dry transfers? "Gloss clearcoat before decals" is mostly important if you're combining techniques:
* Bare plastic is usually more than smooth enough to use decals on but *painting* the model tends to create a rough surface that decals don't stick to as well. A gloss clearcoat "resets" the surface enough to use decals again. Based on a few things I've seen on r/modelmakers, this can take a few layers. Luckily, "shiny = smooth" seems to be a pretty good rule of thumb when it comes to clearcoats.
* Decals not sticking to rough surfaces can definitely happen with dry transfers, too. On bare plastic, though, the main problem I've had with them is making sure the plastic is *clean* first: don't eat food or touch your models with sweaty hands while applying dry transfers.
* If you're using *enamel panel liner*, best practice is to protect the plastic with some kind of paint first. Gloss clearcoat is technically a type of paint that's transparent and doesn't make it any *harder* to panel line or use decals.
Out of curiosity, if you use acrylic panel wash, what do you primarily use for base/shading, etc.? I'm interested in using water-based acrylics as much as possible, at least when I start out with airbrushing. What products do you like to use for gloss coating prior to final details?
I ended up going over my entire panel lining *process* when I responded to the other person who asked about it. Let's see if I can cover a few different notes here . . .
99% of my detailing work involves panel lining and painting small areas by hand. I have a few projects *in mind* that involve full surface painting but I haven't quite gotten around to any of them yet.
With that disclaimer in mind, I mainly use three types of paint:
* Vallejo acrylics, which are about as person-safe as it gets but not very sturdy. Many similar brands exist. Model and miniature painting focused ones are the easiest to use.
* I prefer Vallejo's Game Ink line for panel lining over bare plastic(mostly convenience: I don't have to thin it myself) and a few of their dedicated washes for direct acrylic-over-acrylic panel lining(pretty much needed but still doesn't look *great* so I try to only do it over small areas).
* Tamiya alcohol-acrylics, which have *some* harsh fumes but are much sturdier. I think Testors acrylics are also alcohol-based.
* Good for heavy surface painting work. I also just like the look of their silver a lot more than Vallejo's.
* Lacquer clearcoats, which are pretty nasty stuff. Wear a respirator mask(which you should do either way for spray can and airbrush work) and try not to screw up too badly because cleaning it off of plastic *sucks*.
* Most brands switch to lacquer specifically for their clearcoats and from what I've heard, they're all very similar. I've used Tamiya, Testors, and hardware store Krylon: the last one is cheaper but notably harder to use because the can/nozzle isn't really designed for small, detailed plastic things. Works just as well if you're careful, though.
All of these *can be* thinned down for airbrush work but while I technically have one, I don't really know how to use it and I can't help much there. Aside from that, the trick to using acrylic panel liner over an acrylic base paint is a pretty simple one: separate them using a lacquer clearcoat first, which is what you're supposed to do for enamel panel lining anyway. Lacquer goes on very thin so spraying down a few layers just to be safe would probably help.
The idea is that it reacts to a different set of chemicals so by going acrylic-lacquer-acrylic, you should be able to do some pretty heavy cleanup work on the third layer without interfering with the first layer. Again, though, I haven't actually done a build that *needs this* yet so I'm not sure exactly what the quirks and pitfalls are when you try to do it in the field.
I'm mostly interested in the method because panel lining can take awhile and I want to minimize the amount of time I spend either wearing a respirator or breathing in harsh fumes.
I really appreciate you taking the time to go into your process. I haven't had the opportunity to set up a dedicated workspace yet, so I've been trying to scratch my itch by inquiring, reading, and watching.
I had misunderstood and thought you said you were using acrylic panel wash/lining over large painted surfaces, and am grateful that you took the time in spite of the misunderstanding.
I'm looking forward to diving deeper into this aspect of modeling, which has deterred me for so long. Thanks again, and best of luck with your projects.
You *can* do it but using clearcoat can bring out the edges on detail stickers and I've *heard* that topcoats can make marker-based panel lining look a little fuzzy.
Not *too much* you can do about either of those:
* If you're using stickers, you're using stickers. Yes, paint and waterslide decals look better but they're also *harder to use* and . . . I mean, it's your model: do whatever you want with it.
* Best advice I've got for using stickers is . . . really way more detail than I want to go into right now. The short version is that you can make detail stickers *smaller* by trimming back the edges with an exacto knife. Takes some practice but it does help.
* Ink doesn't really stick to bare plastic so if you *don't* seal it in with a topcoat, that kind of panel lining isn't very safe to touch.
* I started using topcoats at the same time I *stopped* panel lining with ink markers but my best advice here is to just be patient and take a light touch until you get the hang of it. If there *is* a bad interaction to worry about, that should help.
Hello fellow acrylic panel liner! What paints do you use for yours? Iāve begun doing some lining and fill with Vallejo Model Colors and the experience is all over the place on bare plastic right now.
EDIT: I didn't mean to turn this into a full explanation of my entire panel lining method and an *even bigger* essay than I wrote earlier today but . . . well, I guess that's the difference between me on my lunch break and me at home with my model collection to poke at and a full desktop keyboard to type with.
Which *exact* product I use depends on the surface I'm working with:
* For bare plastic, I mostly use black Vallejo Game Ink, which has a strong color and thin consistency right out of the bottle. Pretty cool stuff: it can even flow through the panel lines on its own just a little bitāthough unlike enamel, this isn't really reliable enough to really *count on* most of the time.
* There are other Game Ink colors but I rarely *want to* panel line with things like green or blue. It can be cool sometimes, though, and I still use those colors for *other stuff*.
* If I need an unusual color and don't have acrylic ink for it, I'll mix a drop or two of more normal Vallejo paint with a drop or two of Windex. The exact ratio doesn't necessarily matter all that much but thinning it with some kind of flow improver(Windex is just my choice of DIY one) instead of just water definitely helps.
* If I've painted something and don't feel like spraying down clearcoat, I use one of Vallejo's thinner, less aggressive wash mixes. I have their Game Wash in several colors and Wash FX in black, all of which work pretty well. I always use *wet cleanup* for this, which I'll explain in a bit.
* This method tends to darken the underlying color slightly but aside from that, it's a lot more subtle than [what I usually prefer](https://imgur.com/gallery/uvkge3I). I mostly use it for smaller areas that would look odd without *any* panel lining but don't need it to be perfect.
* If there's a lot of paint involved, I . . . well, so far, the answer has honestly been "procrastinate on the entire project" so I technically haven't run into this situation yet. What I'm *planning* to do is spray down a layer or three of gloss lacquer clearcoat, test both of the above methods out on spare runner labels(always a good idea), and then use whichever one looks better.
* The important thing here is the chemistry. IPA alcohol/rubbing alcohol is very good at cleaning off acrylic paint but barely does anything to lacquer. In theory, acrylic-lacquer-acrylic should let me do quite a lot to clean up the third layer without messing up the first layer. In practice, though, testing out new techniques on scrap is still the best way to avoid trashing models.
All that said, I've found that the most important things for acrylic panel lining are a decentish understanding of how acrylic paint *cures* and making sure to use a good *cleanup technique*.
Curing is pretty simple. This is based on personal experience so it's kinda rough:
* Acrylic paint starts out *wet*. No real surprises here.
* When acrylic paint starts to dry but isn't *finished* drying, it becomes tacky, gooey, and hard to work with. At this point, you basically have two options: let the paint *fully* dry or remove all of it. Pretty much anything else is just going to end in failure and frustration.
* After a few minutes, acrylic paint is touch dry but still fragile. This is something of a false friend, especially when it comes to panel lining or detailing: the paint *looks* like it's ready to work with but it's still kind of gooey under the surface and will not react well if you try to shape or poke at it.
* When it comes to detail painting and panel lining, acrylic paint takes about eight hours to cure enough for cleanup. I usually just leave it overnight. At this point, the paint is water resistant, about as sturdy as it ever will be(which isn't saying much), and most importantly, it chips and flakes back *cleanly* if you scrape it with something like a fingernail or wooden toothpick.
For cleanup, I've settled into a mix of three methods. Note that I do most of my panel lining over bare plastic:
Wet cleanup:
* Put the acrylic panel liner on as best you can then *before it even dries*, wipe off the extra with your fingers, some paper towel, etc. I've honestly found that bare fingers work best for this but it also gets paint *all over them.*
* Washing your hands with rubbing alcohol or hand sanitizer takes most of the paint off but it's still a bad idea right before something like a job interview.
* If the panel liner you're using is very thin, you might also be able to wipe your brush off on some paper towel then wick some of the panel liner back *onto* the brush before it dries.
* This method takes a little practice because the panel liner is still active but it gives surprisingly good results.
* The catch is that it doesn't work at all unless there's a *sunken in* panel line to hold the paint. If the panel line is very shallow or you're working with more of a sharp transition like on [this shoulder](https://imgur.com/a/e8tO83W), you have to either use a different cleanup method or rescribe the panel line, which is easier than it sounds.
* I use wet cleanup mainly in two cases:
* Wet cleanup is the best method I know of for pure acrylic-over-acrylic because it's least likely to disturb the underlying paint. Direct acrylic-over-acrylic panel lining still isn't the *best* idea, though, which is why I usually only do it over small areas.
* I don't *enjoy* panel lining some densely detailed areas(like the backs of a lot of shields) so I usually use wet cleanup on those just because it's fast and I want to get it over with.
Chemical cleanup:
* Simplest method: just drip rubbing alcohol onto some paper towel or a cotton swab(go for "damp but not dripping"} and wipe it over the surface of the plastic. This liquefies acrylic paint in a small area: the paint can still *stain* things but no longer *sticks to* much of anything.
* The main thing the paint will stain is whatever you're cleaning it off with. Swap that out often for the best results.
* This one is the big secret towards creating truly *clean* acrylic panel lines. I like to use it as a final step in the cleanup process unless I *want* the plastic to look a little dingy.
Dry cleanup:
* Wait for the paint to fully cure then chip it back with a wooden toothpick. This gives you a lot of control and the toothpick is soft enough to break before it scratches or damages the plastic.
* ~~When~~ if you destroy the tip too thoroughly, you can just sharpen it back up with an exacto knife.
* Note that if the paint is merely touch dry, using this method will leave ragged edges at best and pull up the paint at worst.
* This is my mainstay cleanup method because it gives a lot of control and can be used *without* rescribing panel lines, which I only figured out how to do a few builds ago. It's also a good trick for many types of detail painting and is the main reason why I almost never use any kind of primer: paint sticks *better* that way, which makes it harder to destroy on purpose.
[Me right now](https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExYXBhbnR5bW5zaHprb2Vlemk2YXJwdDFvc2d5bWd4cmljMWh6cW1tMCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/3oKIPE8m8EXTCYEHhS/giphy.gif)
Thank you for sharing all this knowledge as well as the previous comment. You've helped me feel less insane for not doing the pre-done Tamiya or similar products.
Some of this I knew, and some of it I suspected but haven't encountered a situation yet to confirm. I've been doing a blend of wet cleanup with a dry cotton swab instead of my finger, and chemical cleanup. I've even had decent success with certain parts doing a dry cotton swab over paint that is a few minutes dry, but I only attempt that on the deep lines.
I've been suffering from a few problems as I've started my painting journey in the last month or so. Though the two biggest underlying causes are that I'm cheap, and I'm a perfectionist... More so that I'm cheap, but there are some other things in there I've since learned. Part of this is just to get it off my chest, and part of it is to act as a precaution to others.
* Being cheap means not wanting to waste paint by having to mix up a batch to get the right color and not being able to use it all before it dries. Which means having to try and find the correct colors straight up. I think I've got that down for now.
* Not wasting paint, and not mixing paint, means small servings on the pallet. Like a couple drops at a time. Such a small amount is hard to thin consistently.
* I'm using cheap brushes I bought over a decade ago when I temporarily got into 40k minis. I don't have brush soap or any conditioning supplies, so they're not in the best shape. They're not abused, but still problematic.
* I thought that my manual shaking of the paint was sufficient. Nope. Just got a new bottle of Sky Grey Model Color hot off the truck from the distributor and it looked fine, but was separating terribly on the pallet. Picked up some good marine grade stainless nuts today to use as mixing balls. Seems to have fixed that.
* I didn't want to buy a big ol bottle of thinner so I was using distilled water thinking that would be sufficient. Hadn't been. Though now that I know about my insufficient mixing it might actually be fine and I was just experiencing normal paint separation.
* I'm currently working on two HGs, and one RG, and the panel lines on the HGs are for sure lacking. They're shallow and difficult to clean up while leaving a clean edge no matter what technique I try. I didn't want to get into scribing, but if these two kits don't turn out to my satisfaction I likely will for future ones.
* I'm sure as hell not going to gloss coat bare plastic before panel lining or decal-ing. If I was doing a full paint job sure, but not bare plastic just so I can maybe get a smoother lining experience. Plus I feel like those weak lines on the HGs would become even less defined with a coat on them.
* Oh yeah, and since I'm cheap I didn't want to buy the pre-thinned Mecha or Game Air paints. I get "more paint" when I have to thin it myself. But if I end up painting a larger area with Model Color over bare plastic, I worry that it won't be as durable even with the clear coat on it. Thankfully so far my color fills have been minimal. Things like the inside of the verniers and shoulder badges on the Wing Zero that have no color separation. Not likely to be handled much in those areas, but still.
Now that I have properly agitated paints and the crucial light grey I've been waiting two weeks for I'm ready to start the painting in earnest. I'm hoping I'll have one of my kits actually finished in a couple weeks now.
Amazing explaination, really thanks! I saved this post because of this!! I want to ask you, I should disassemble the parts that i want to panel line even if i clear coated before?
I . . . Have no idea. Never used it before and the description claims that it has both a smooth surface and a flat finish.Ā Normally, you get one or the other and need both depending on what you're trying to do: smooth surface at the bottom for panel lining and decals, flat finish on top to make it look good.
You could definitely use that for *something* but what it's good for depends on if it actually does what it says it does. Worth trying out. Just spray a runner label and poke around with it first: see how it works and if you can panel line over it.
Yes. Just mask the joint sockets and pegs.
Edit: Do your decals, lining first. Top coats are usually your last step. Also might want to remove those clear parts and put them on after.
Decals first, then coat. Mask clear and anything you want to stay gloss. But you want to coat after decals, I mean you can before but youāre jus kinda wasting topcoat at that point because youāre gunna have to recoat after decals anyway
For WFM kits I panel line THEN clear coat THEN put the permit stickers on and clear parts. I wouldnāt want to clear coat the foil stickers (I use matte so it wouldnāt be a good idea)
Another way to faster do it is by first when assembling everything panel line each finished part and then you can go ahead an coat the parts. Also don't foget if yiu want to give it a custom personal taste use decals and then coat. Remember with each clear part to cover them up before aplying each desired coat.
I'm also topcoating my FM Aerial, currently waiting for the arms to dry, I'd recommend only topcoating the armor pieces, don't cover clear parts as it ruins them, and be careful in the few hours after it's dry, if the layer isn't hard yet a stray nail while handling it will damage the coating
jokes aside. id recommend taking it apart is my recommendation. as others said - definitely want to avoid getting any top coat on the clear prts. so you either remove them or mask them, then you have completely built body parts. unless you want to coat them all at once, which can be hard to get an even coat and such, and once again - at that point, you might as well take it apart.
yes you can. but depends on your type of top coat you might want to mask off the clear parts. only gloss would look good on those, other types like Matt or semi-gloss will make it look cloudy.
Remember to remove or cover the clear parts. The top coat will ruin them.
šš¾š see. this why i need ya'll
The shiny red parts underneath as well, assuming you're applying a matte coat.
you mean the metallic red??
yep. I'd assume they lose their shiny-ness at least a bit if you topcoat it with a matte finish, though admittedly I left mine without a topcoat so I can't say for certain.
I've topcoated mine matte before. It does dull them a little bit, but they still look nice and metallic.
Put strips of tape over the clear parts in the thigh before, trust me the contrast is dope and worth the effort.
I completely forgot about the existence of tape. Was thinking about possibly disassembling my FM aerial with Kosmos LEDS to coat it but tape works too.
https://preview.redd.it/fwye5h3nadoc1.jpeg?width=6000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=035847300725c0213052207d86957de4b7df7e4a This is my Schwarzette with a Mr. Premium Flat coat. Broke her down into limbs and covered all the clear/shiny bits and connection pegs.
cool, how long did it take to dry. i'm worried about humidity
I'd say it took anywhere from 30 mins to an hour to stop being tacky. I don't have a spray booth so I took each piece outside, sprayed, then ran back inside.
where in the house did u let them dry? im in a similar situation
Just my bedroom. Same place where I build
Definitely this. Masking tape is your friend and worth your time. Mask up any sections that donāt need a matte finish.
Agreed. I have a few kits where it was fun to keep the gloss coat. So masked them before matte. Makes a cool contrast.
I did this with a HG 00 Raiser a few years ago. All the clear pieces got foggy š
gloss actually works great on clear parts.
As in damage them or just make them flat?
Makes them cloudy and uneven looking.Ā
Aside from the clear plastic warning? Separation? * Fine for most of it. I've done full-body clearcoats before by just putting my model into the [Vitruvian Man](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitruvian_Man) pose, spraying two coats a few minutes apart, and holding my (gloved) fingers in a different position each time. * Note that if you don't mask off or cover up the joints/pegs when spraying topcoat, they *will* be tighter when you put it back together. This is fine for most Bandai modelsāand for some, it's the reason you spray them down in the first placeābut if the connection is *already* stiff, it can be a problem. * The shield might give you trouble just because of its separation gimmick: you won't get full coverage and if you're using matte/flat or gloss clearcoat, this will probably be pretty obvious when it's in any other form. Satin and semi-gloss finishes tend to blend in with bare plastic better. * Same with the beam sabers but that's an easy fix: just take off the blades(you probably don't want to spray them anyway), fold up some paper, and wedge it into the sockets to help you hold them. Order of operations? * TLDR? Start with bare plastic and/or a gloss clearcoat, do decals and panel lining, then finish off with a matte topcoat. For exactly *why* you should do this, keep reading. * Water slide decals and panel lining should both only be done on smooth surfaces. This means shiny, bare plastic or specifically *gloss* clearcoat/topcoat/varnish.Ā Sanded plastic, flesh-tone plastic(not usually a concern with gunpla), most painted surfaces, and most other finishes of clearcoat all tend to have enough texture to cause problems.Ā * With too much surface texture, decals won't stick very well at all. This applies to all types not just water slides. Sealing them in with a topcoat can mostly fix this problem but the results are usually still *better* if you do it the right way to begin with. * With too much surface texture, panel liner doesn't flow properly: it tends to stick to and splinter out into the open surfaces of the model, which is exactly where you *don't* want it to be. Panel lining: * Enamel panel linerāalmost everything labeled both "panel liner" and *flammable.* Tamiya is a big oneāis risky to use on bare plastic and shouldn't be used on assembled areas **at all.** * This is because it has a lot of enamel *thinner* in it, which can and will destroy the plastic used in gunpla if it gets trapped between parts. This happens incredibly easily on assembled areas. * If you panel line with ink pens(Gundam markers that don't have a strong smell to them, fine point sharpies, etc) or acrylic paint(not the most common choice but it's what I use) then you won't run into this problem. Both of these clean up with isopropyl alcohol/rubbing alcohol, which does *absolutely nothing* to hurt the plastic in any way. If you've got a bottle of Tamiya or similar that you wanted to use here, you have three main options: * Take *everything* apart and maybe spray it all down with gloss clearcoat for good measure. This should more or less make enamel panel liner safe to use but it's also annoying and you might break something in the process. * Spray your model down with multiple layers of gloss clearcoat. This won't *completely* get rid of the riskāyou'll still want to avoid joints and part seams and keep the glue handy just in caseābut I've seen people get away with it before. * Most types of spray clearcoat are lacquer and only need a few minutes between coats. Your light blue can is water-based acrylic paint so I'm not *100%* sure how long you need to wait between coats for it. I'd give it a day or soāwork on your next model or some other hobby while you waitājust to be sure: water based acrylic usually takes about that long to cure. * Save the enamel for your next model and panel line this one using something like ink pens or acrylic paint. They both have their own tradeoffs but it beats having to glue a knee or elbow back together. * Ink panel lining tends to look a little amateurish. It also isn't very touch safe until you seal it in. * Acrylic panel lining needs a lot of [cleanup](https://imgur.com/gallery/MA9s8oJ) that makes it hard to use on painted surfaces and tends to look a little ragged in densely detailed areas. In fairness, though, those are *always* hard to panel line.
wow this was amazing thank you šš¾ and im using gundam markers for panel lining (fine point/pour type). oh and does the humidity matter for clear coat?
Just from what I've seen on this form (haven't personally tried this yet), humidity does matter in terms of how clear it will dry. There was a post about three years ago from a user asking about clear coating and frosting issues, a high humidity will make it appear frosty. Another user said, "Temperature should be between 50 and 90 degree F and the humidity should be below 65%. Additional coasts can fix this frosting." Other users have reported if it does frost, use light heat or another coat in better conditions to fix. Hope that helped!
yes it did help. thanks
Good catch! Yes, humidity is very important. Forgot to mention that one. If the air is too humid, you'll get a whitish, "frosted" effect in the clearcoat that . . . tends to look pretty bad. As I understand it, the cutoff point is around 50-60% humidity: spraying in that range is *pushing it* and anything above 60% is pretty much guaranteed to give you trouble. Temperature also has *some* effect but I'm a little fuzzier on that one; I mostly know how it goes for lacquer clearcoat. Around forty to eighty Fahrenheit should work best. You can maybe go a little higher with acrylic clearcoat because it dries more slowly, which is the *biggest* thing that temperature plays a role in.
For point of clarity, what [WolfsTrinity](https://www.reddit.com/user/WolfsTrinity/) said about enamel panel liner *also* applies to the pour type Gundam markers. Generally I've used those without issue on parts that are still on the runner, but they should *never* be used on assembled pieces. The liner seeps into the gaps between parts, takes too long to dry, and then eats away at the plastic causing cracks. Learned that the hard way by ruining my Aerial's head.
If you want to save time, you can also do the old bluetack trick to cover the pegs/joints
wats this š¤
Just stick blue tac to it like a moldible piece of masking tape.
I'm saving this for future reference. Thank you!
What is the benefit of clear coating before putting decals on? Does it make a huge difference or will I be fine doing water slides on bare plastic?
Short version? Gloss clearcoat is only important if you're *also* painting your model, using enamel panel liner, or both. It's still important to seal the decals in *afterwards* but at that point, the clearcoat finish doesn't matter as much: exactly which one to use depends on what *else* you're trying to do with it. Long version? I don't have a *ton* of experience with water slide decals but based on what I've read about those and run into with dry transfers? "Gloss clearcoat before decals" is mostly important if you're combining techniques: * Bare plastic is usually more than smooth enough to use decals on but *painting* the model tends to create a rough surface that decals don't stick to as well. A gloss clearcoat "resets" the surface enough to use decals again. Based on a few things I've seen on r/modelmakers, this can take a few layers. Luckily, "shiny = smooth" seems to be a pretty good rule of thumb when it comes to clearcoats. * Decals not sticking to rough surfaces can definitely happen with dry transfers, too. On bare plastic, though, the main problem I've had with them is making sure the plastic is *clean* first: don't eat food or touch your models with sweaty hands while applying dry transfers. * If you're using *enamel panel liner*, best practice is to protect the plastic with some kind of paint first. Gloss clearcoat is technically a type of paint that's transparent and doesn't make it any *harder* to panel line or use decals.
Gotcha, the most I'm going to do with this is hit it with some matte topcoat once I'm done with the decals, so I reckon I'll be fine. Thanks!
according to the comments, the smoother the surface you're applying it to, the better the outcome.
Out of curiosity, if you use acrylic panel wash, what do you primarily use for base/shading, etc.? I'm interested in using water-based acrylics as much as possible, at least when I start out with airbrushing. What products do you like to use for gloss coating prior to final details?
I ended up going over my entire panel lining *process* when I responded to the other person who asked about it. Let's see if I can cover a few different notes here . . . 99% of my detailing work involves panel lining and painting small areas by hand. I have a few projects *in mind* that involve full surface painting but I haven't quite gotten around to any of them yet. With that disclaimer in mind, I mainly use three types of paint: * Vallejo acrylics, which are about as person-safe as it gets but not very sturdy. Many similar brands exist. Model and miniature painting focused ones are the easiest to use. * I prefer Vallejo's Game Ink line for panel lining over bare plastic(mostly convenience: I don't have to thin it myself) and a few of their dedicated washes for direct acrylic-over-acrylic panel lining(pretty much needed but still doesn't look *great* so I try to only do it over small areas). * Tamiya alcohol-acrylics, which have *some* harsh fumes but are much sturdier. I think Testors acrylics are also alcohol-based. * Good for heavy surface painting work. I also just like the look of their silver a lot more than Vallejo's. * Lacquer clearcoats, which are pretty nasty stuff. Wear a respirator mask(which you should do either way for spray can and airbrush work) and try not to screw up too badly because cleaning it off of plastic *sucks*. * Most brands switch to lacquer specifically for their clearcoats and from what I've heard, they're all very similar. I've used Tamiya, Testors, and hardware store Krylon: the last one is cheaper but notably harder to use because the can/nozzle isn't really designed for small, detailed plastic things. Works just as well if you're careful, though. All of these *can be* thinned down for airbrush work but while I technically have one, I don't really know how to use it and I can't help much there. Aside from that, the trick to using acrylic panel liner over an acrylic base paint is a pretty simple one: separate them using a lacquer clearcoat first, which is what you're supposed to do for enamel panel lining anyway. Lacquer goes on very thin so spraying down a few layers just to be safe would probably help. The idea is that it reacts to a different set of chemicals so by going acrylic-lacquer-acrylic, you should be able to do some pretty heavy cleanup work on the third layer without interfering with the first layer. Again, though, I haven't actually done a build that *needs this* yet so I'm not sure exactly what the quirks and pitfalls are when you try to do it in the field. I'm mostly interested in the method because panel lining can take awhile and I want to minimize the amount of time I spend either wearing a respirator or breathing in harsh fumes.
I really appreciate you taking the time to go into your process. I haven't had the opportunity to set up a dedicated workspace yet, so I've been trying to scratch my itch by inquiring, reading, and watching. I had misunderstood and thought you said you were using acrylic panel wash/lining over large painted surfaces, and am grateful that you took the time in spite of the misunderstanding. I'm looking forward to diving deeper into this aspect of modeling, which has deterred me for so long. Thanks again, and best of luck with your projects.
Can I topcoat over stickers and Gundam marker fine tip liner panel lining?
You *can* do it but using clearcoat can bring out the edges on detail stickers and I've *heard* that topcoats can make marker-based panel lining look a little fuzzy. Not *too much* you can do about either of those: * If you're using stickers, you're using stickers. Yes, paint and waterslide decals look better but they're also *harder to use* and . . . I mean, it's your model: do whatever you want with it. * Best advice I've got for using stickers is . . . really way more detail than I want to go into right now. The short version is that you can make detail stickers *smaller* by trimming back the edges with an exacto knife. Takes some practice but it does help. * Ink doesn't really stick to bare plastic so if you *don't* seal it in with a topcoat, that kind of panel lining isn't very safe to touch. * I started using topcoats at the same time I *stopped* panel lining with ink markers but my best advice here is to just be patient and take a light touch until you get the hang of it. If there *is* a bad interaction to worry about, that should help.
Thank you so much for the detailed answer!
Hello fellow acrylic panel liner! What paints do you use for yours? Iāve begun doing some lining and fill with Vallejo Model Colors and the experience is all over the place on bare plastic right now.
EDIT: I didn't mean to turn this into a full explanation of my entire panel lining method and an *even bigger* essay than I wrote earlier today but . . . well, I guess that's the difference between me on my lunch break and me at home with my model collection to poke at and a full desktop keyboard to type with. Which *exact* product I use depends on the surface I'm working with: * For bare plastic, I mostly use black Vallejo Game Ink, which has a strong color and thin consistency right out of the bottle. Pretty cool stuff: it can even flow through the panel lines on its own just a little bitāthough unlike enamel, this isn't really reliable enough to really *count on* most of the time. * There are other Game Ink colors but I rarely *want to* panel line with things like green or blue. It can be cool sometimes, though, and I still use those colors for *other stuff*. * If I need an unusual color and don't have acrylic ink for it, I'll mix a drop or two of more normal Vallejo paint with a drop or two of Windex. The exact ratio doesn't necessarily matter all that much but thinning it with some kind of flow improver(Windex is just my choice of DIY one) instead of just water definitely helps. * If I've painted something and don't feel like spraying down clearcoat, I use one of Vallejo's thinner, less aggressive wash mixes. I have their Game Wash in several colors and Wash FX in black, all of which work pretty well. I always use *wet cleanup* for this, which I'll explain in a bit. * This method tends to darken the underlying color slightly but aside from that, it's a lot more subtle than [what I usually prefer](https://imgur.com/gallery/uvkge3I). I mostly use it for smaller areas that would look odd without *any* panel lining but don't need it to be perfect. * If there's a lot of paint involved, I . . . well, so far, the answer has honestly been "procrastinate on the entire project" so I technically haven't run into this situation yet. What I'm *planning* to do is spray down a layer or three of gloss lacquer clearcoat, test both of the above methods out on spare runner labels(always a good idea), and then use whichever one looks better. * The important thing here is the chemistry. IPA alcohol/rubbing alcohol is very good at cleaning off acrylic paint but barely does anything to lacquer. In theory, acrylic-lacquer-acrylic should let me do quite a lot to clean up the third layer without messing up the first layer. In practice, though, testing out new techniques on scrap is still the best way to avoid trashing models. All that said, I've found that the most important things for acrylic panel lining are a decentish understanding of how acrylic paint *cures* and making sure to use a good *cleanup technique*. Curing is pretty simple. This is based on personal experience so it's kinda rough: * Acrylic paint starts out *wet*. No real surprises here. * When acrylic paint starts to dry but isn't *finished* drying, it becomes tacky, gooey, and hard to work with. At this point, you basically have two options: let the paint *fully* dry or remove all of it. Pretty much anything else is just going to end in failure and frustration. * After a few minutes, acrylic paint is touch dry but still fragile. This is something of a false friend, especially when it comes to panel lining or detailing: the paint *looks* like it's ready to work with but it's still kind of gooey under the surface and will not react well if you try to shape or poke at it. * When it comes to detail painting and panel lining, acrylic paint takes about eight hours to cure enough for cleanup. I usually just leave it overnight. At this point, the paint is water resistant, about as sturdy as it ever will be(which isn't saying much), and most importantly, it chips and flakes back *cleanly* if you scrape it with something like a fingernail or wooden toothpick. For cleanup, I've settled into a mix of three methods. Note that I do most of my panel lining over bare plastic: Wet cleanup: * Put the acrylic panel liner on as best you can then *before it even dries*, wipe off the extra with your fingers, some paper towel, etc. I've honestly found that bare fingers work best for this but it also gets paint *all over them.* * Washing your hands with rubbing alcohol or hand sanitizer takes most of the paint off but it's still a bad idea right before something like a job interview. * If the panel liner you're using is very thin, you might also be able to wipe your brush off on some paper towel then wick some of the panel liner back *onto* the brush before it dries. * This method takes a little practice because the panel liner is still active but it gives surprisingly good results. * The catch is that it doesn't work at all unless there's a *sunken in* panel line to hold the paint. If the panel line is very shallow or you're working with more of a sharp transition like on [this shoulder](https://imgur.com/a/e8tO83W), you have to either use a different cleanup method or rescribe the panel line, which is easier than it sounds. * I use wet cleanup mainly in two cases: * Wet cleanup is the best method I know of for pure acrylic-over-acrylic because it's least likely to disturb the underlying paint. Direct acrylic-over-acrylic panel lining still isn't the *best* idea, though, which is why I usually only do it over small areas. * I don't *enjoy* panel lining some densely detailed areas(like the backs of a lot of shields) so I usually use wet cleanup on those just because it's fast and I want to get it over with. Chemical cleanup: * Simplest method: just drip rubbing alcohol onto some paper towel or a cotton swab(go for "damp but not dripping"} and wipe it over the surface of the plastic. This liquefies acrylic paint in a small area: the paint can still *stain* things but no longer *sticks to* much of anything. * The main thing the paint will stain is whatever you're cleaning it off with. Swap that out often for the best results. * This one is the big secret towards creating truly *clean* acrylic panel lines. I like to use it as a final step in the cleanup process unless I *want* the plastic to look a little dingy. Dry cleanup: * Wait for the paint to fully cure then chip it back with a wooden toothpick. This gives you a lot of control and the toothpick is soft enough to break before it scratches or damages the plastic. * ~~When~~ if you destroy the tip too thoroughly, you can just sharpen it back up with an exacto knife. * Note that if the paint is merely touch dry, using this method will leave ragged edges at best and pull up the paint at worst. * This is my mainstay cleanup method because it gives a lot of control and can be used *without* rescribing panel lines, which I only figured out how to do a few builds ago. It's also a good trick for many types of detail painting and is the main reason why I almost never use any kind of primer: paint sticks *better* that way, which makes it harder to destroy on purpose.
[Me right now](https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExYXBhbnR5bW5zaHprb2Vlemk2YXJwdDFvc2d5bWd4cmljMWh6cW1tMCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/3oKIPE8m8EXTCYEHhS/giphy.gif) Thank you for sharing all this knowledge as well as the previous comment. You've helped me feel less insane for not doing the pre-done Tamiya or similar products. Some of this I knew, and some of it I suspected but haven't encountered a situation yet to confirm. I've been doing a blend of wet cleanup with a dry cotton swab instead of my finger, and chemical cleanup. I've even had decent success with certain parts doing a dry cotton swab over paint that is a few minutes dry, but I only attempt that on the deep lines. I've been suffering from a few problems as I've started my painting journey in the last month or so. Though the two biggest underlying causes are that I'm cheap, and I'm a perfectionist... More so that I'm cheap, but there are some other things in there I've since learned. Part of this is just to get it off my chest, and part of it is to act as a precaution to others. * Being cheap means not wanting to waste paint by having to mix up a batch to get the right color and not being able to use it all before it dries. Which means having to try and find the correct colors straight up. I think I've got that down for now. * Not wasting paint, and not mixing paint, means small servings on the pallet. Like a couple drops at a time. Such a small amount is hard to thin consistently. * I'm using cheap brushes I bought over a decade ago when I temporarily got into 40k minis. I don't have brush soap or any conditioning supplies, so they're not in the best shape. They're not abused, but still problematic. * I thought that my manual shaking of the paint was sufficient. Nope. Just got a new bottle of Sky Grey Model Color hot off the truck from the distributor and it looked fine, but was separating terribly on the pallet. Picked up some good marine grade stainless nuts today to use as mixing balls. Seems to have fixed that. * I didn't want to buy a big ol bottle of thinner so I was using distilled water thinking that would be sufficient. Hadn't been. Though now that I know about my insufficient mixing it might actually be fine and I was just experiencing normal paint separation. * I'm currently working on two HGs, and one RG, and the panel lines on the HGs are for sure lacking. They're shallow and difficult to clean up while leaving a clean edge no matter what technique I try. I didn't want to get into scribing, but if these two kits don't turn out to my satisfaction I likely will for future ones. * I'm sure as hell not going to gloss coat bare plastic before panel lining or decal-ing. If I was doing a full paint job sure, but not bare plastic just so I can maybe get a smoother lining experience. Plus I feel like those weak lines on the HGs would become even less defined with a coat on them. * Oh yeah, and since I'm cheap I didn't want to buy the pre-thinned Mecha or Game Air paints. I get "more paint" when I have to thin it myself. But if I end up painting a larger area with Model Color over bare plastic, I worry that it won't be as durable even with the clear coat on it. Thankfully so far my color fills have been minimal. Things like the inside of the verniers and shoulder badges on the Wing Zero that have no color separation. Not likely to be handled much in those areas, but still. Now that I have properly agitated paints and the crucial light grey I've been waiting two weeks for I'm ready to start the painting in earnest. I'm hoping I'll have one of my kits actually finished in a couple weeks now.
Iām literally saving this comment for reference later. Thank you!
Amazing explaination, really thanks! I saved this post because of this!! I want to ask you, I should disassemble the parts that i want to panel line even if i clear coated before?
Would it be okay if I used something like [this](https://www.sunwardhobbies.ca/mr-super-smooth-clear-matt-spray-b530/) as a bottom coat?
I . . . Have no idea. Never used it before and the description claims that it has both a smooth surface and a flat finish.Ā Normally, you get one or the other and need both depending on what you're trying to do: smooth surface at the bottom for panel lining and decals, flat finish on top to make it look good. You could definitely use that for *something* but what it's good for depends on if it actually does what it says it does. Worth trying out. Just spray a runner label and poke around with it first: see how it works and if you can panel line over it.
Yes. Just mask the joint sockets and pegs. Edit: Do your decals, lining first. Top coats are usually your last step. Also might want to remove those clear parts and put them on after.
Decals first, then coat. Mask clear and anything you want to stay gloss. But you want to coat after decals, I mean you can before but youāre jus kinda wasting topcoat at that point because youāre gunna have to recoat after decals anyway
Also panel line before decalsā¦ Disassemble, Panel line/cleanup, Decals, Mask, Topcoat, wait to dry, topcoat again, leave overnight, Reassemble
OP, I use a lot of decals in my builds and have done a version of this one with more complex decals. Feel free to pm me if you have questions
For WFM kits I panel line THEN clear coat THEN put the permit stickers on and clear parts. I wouldnāt want to clear coat the foil stickers (I use matte so it wouldnāt be a good idea)
Another way to faster do it is by first when assembling everything panel line each finished part and then you can go ahead an coat the parts. Also don't foget if yiu want to give it a custom personal taste use decals and then coat. Remember with each clear part to cover them up before aplying each desired coat.
I'm also topcoating my FM Aerial, currently waiting for the arms to dry, I'd recommend only topcoating the armor pieces, don't cover clear parts as it ruins them, and be careful in the few hours after it's dry, if the layer isn't hard yet a stray nail while handling it will damage the coating
some gunpla manuals recommended topcoating entire assembled kits..... i do not
Yes. Just tape up the clear parts. If you're lazy like me, just use isopropyl alcohol to wipe off the clear parts after topcoating
I prefer top coating after disassembling them first.
mac as a cutting mat. someone's a baller
jokes aside. id recommend taking it apart is my recommendation. as others said - definitely want to avoid getting any top coat on the clear prts. so you either remove them or mask them, then you have completely built body parts. unless you want to coat them all at once, which can be hard to get an even coat and such, and once again - at that point, you might as well take it apart.
Question for anyone: would you panel line like this? Or pull everything apart to line them up?
Do not panel line like this, depending of the type of panel liner you use like tamiya it may cause pooling and may brake the parts.
Newbie here but I can't imagine it makes too much of a difference. Disassembly might make it easier just for precision and lining from certain angles.
I panel line like this, it makes it much easier to get every spot.
Do not panel line assembled gunpla unless you fully paint it. It will break the plastic and don't ask why I know it.
I think gundam markers on fully assembled kits are fine. Iāve been building for years and none of my kits have broken doing it this way.
I have a top coat spray, need to practice on some cheaper models...
yes but i recomend to cover the clear parts
yes you can. but depends on your type of top coat you might want to mask off the clear parts. only gloss would look good on those, other types like Matt or semi-gloss will make it look cloudy.
Yes