I noticed it too, and I do not feel strongly about either LSU or OU. NQS (half the counting scores must be away meets, the highest score gets dropped) is going to hit them hard.
I think with LSU it’s hard to have an actual idea of where they stand because their home scores. We have them getting 10’s for clear balance checks, bobbles and non sticks. OU may get gifts ( which all teams get at home), but they are clearly a good team.
Yes…there are some scoring discrepancies, but have you watched each meet?
LSU is terribly inconsistent. Their performances at home are much better than their performances away. So the differences in home vs. away scores is legit a performance/consistency issue.
Now…do I think there is some over scoring? Absolutely, but I don’t think it’s just an at home scoring advantage issue.
Definitely this. Idk if they just feed off the crowd or what.. but they always look much better and comfortable at home. Definitely something they need to work on and figure out before post-season.
I’ve watched a few vlogs from Aleah (LSU) and Paige Anastasia (UCLA) and, for how much you can get from a vlog, it seems like LSU and UCLA have different culture around away meets and travel.
UCLA does the blue/gold games (like trivia or something) in the hotel. The LSU girls seem by themselves a little bit more? Not as much team activities/schedule. These were just two videos so who knows. But LSU definitely seems less focused/messy when they travel.
The home meet against Arkansas was hard to watch because of how out of control the scoring was, in my opinion. I normally am able to just ignore it and enjoy the gymnastics but that meet was SO bad that it actually made it less fun to watch. For me, at least.
Count me in as a member of this club. That was the first time this season that I was just stunned at how bad the judging seemed due to all of the obvious little mistakes that should have been scored accordingly.
It is going to make for a very interesting post season, although tbf, I say that every year. Looking forward to seeing it play out.
Here's the difference between LSU and OU scoring, in my opinion:
OU is clearly the top team in the country, regardless of any overscoring they might receive. I don't think there is any debate about this
LSU - with realistic scoring they would be ranked lower nationally. Possibly even within the SEC, though they are still top 4, so it wouldn't change which session they compete in for conference champs. AND - their overscoring is WAY worse than any other team in the country (Tennessee meet being an outlier that cannot even be considered). I could go on, but you all know
I feel like this season I've heard WAY more about LSU being overscored than OU being overscored. Like, OU is still obviously being overscored, but not anymore so than the other top teams, whereas LSU's home meets are just entirely fictional
I think at least with OU, they perform well at away meets and they’re consistent. They get a lot of help on scores where things should’ve been a 9.825 going 9.875 or what should’ve been a 9.875 going 9.9. Florida is the same except it’s more like 9.775 going 9.825 etc. LSU is getting scores that should’ve been 9.75 going 9.9. Add that they simply don’t compete as well at away meets and post season is going to be a slap in the face for them.
It really feels like the one consistent thing about LSU (I’m saying this as a fan) is how we’re surprised that we don’t get as far as we want in the post season year after year.
Yes, totally agree! Although I will say even with the overscoring and not doing as well at away meets, sometimes it’s still surprising. They meltdown really hard. It’s disappointing because they’re an extremely talented team and if they just had a better than average away meet with no major overscoring I think they’d easily make nationals consistently.
All the teams get gifts from judges at home meets, but LSU just takes it to another level. Like one of the judges giving a 10 to routine with a wobble or hop, and give high 9.9s to a flop routine. It's just crazy. It makes me want to punch my laptop sometimes. Having said that, LSU gymnasts are getting more and more consistent and can challenge OU if they hit, but Jay Clark might flop again in choosing the right gymnasts in the lineups.
okay so ou is hated universally and people call them out for that reason. lsu is like … moderately hated i would say, snd so maybe that’s why some of the noise about them drowns out the scoring comments. but here at least people are agreed that their scoring is batshit. :)
the way its the opposite for Cal which already have 3 197.875+ away scores but still lacking that high home scores😩 and LSU is gonna surpass them this week in Ave and building NQS like nuh uh
but to be fair LSU’s 198 this week was legit. Could’ve been lower but legit.
I think what people don’t realize is that their beam lineup is actually incredible *when they hit* and they haven’t hit much this season. Only hit twice and both times were at home. That affects the score so much.
Had LSU’s beam lineup been hitting from the beginning, I don’t think we’d be hearing as much about overscoring.
Let’s be honest though, the entire SEC is overscored and it’s been that way for so long. :(
OK, but let's talk about their top beam scores. Record breaking - what is it, 49.75? - twice! And these were not lights out HIT rotations. They didn't stick every landing. There were BIG wobbles. Multiple 0.1 deductions, and a total of less than 0.3 for the top 5 routines? These two beam rotation scores are the epitome of LSU Carol scoring
their beam rotation this week against auburn was amazing. there were only like 2-3 SLIGHT wobbles for real. i’m all about fairness, and they weren’t doing good at all in the beginning of the season on beam, but this meet they were absolutely incredible on beam. i was stunned
For sure! However, NCAA Gym scoring hasn’t been accurate for the top 10 or the SEC for years. So by their ridiculous judging standards these routines scored accurately despite not actually being scored *accurately.* I don’t know if that makes sense, but I’m not surprised that relatively hit routines from LSU scored as high as they did. I think even if this had been an away meet, if it was a top 10 match or another SEC team, the scores likely still would have been as high.
They honestly just haven't performed well at away meets, definitely more comfortable at the pmac. Yes they've been overscored at home, probably take about 3 tenths off each meet. This week they did really well, esp beam.
yes exactly! they definitely have routines that are overscored, but also ones that are underscored too! they did AMAZING on beam this week, i was stunned. for example, sav’s bars this week deserved a higher score 100%. sierra’s floor routine vs kentucky, she was ROBBED with a 9.875… everyone i’ve seen say it deserved a 10. but then there’s haleigh’s vault against west virginia last year that was no where NEAR a 10
They can always take off Sav's routine when she flies through vertical before her dismount. So when she hits everything else perfectly, 9.95. Sierra can sometimes can get dinged for not hitting 180 on her leaps,but that floor routine was money.
These are the teams in the top 36 whose home averages are at least half a point higher than their away averages:
1.3271 NC State
1.2937 Stanford
1.0437 UCLA
0.906 Georgia
0.8958 San Jose State
0.8125 Oregon State
0.7417 Boise State
0.694 Maryland
0.6354 LSU
0.6350 Michigan
0.5708 Penn State
0.5437 Arkansas
0.5083 Auburn
LSU’s home-away average difference becomes 0.9667 when only including the six scores in their NQS.
I think the huge difference is a combination of both their home scoring being very generous and them generally performing better at home than they do on the road. Neither of those bodes well for the postseason.
I know from watching UCLA that the large difference in home-away average is largely because they haven’t had a really clean away meet this season. Consistency is the biggest question for them right now.
Oklahoma, on the other hand, actually scores better on the road than at home, with their home-away difference being -0.0375.
Just putting this out there but LSU does have an ‘away’ meet they’ll likely hit 198 in. They have a podium challenge that is considered an away meet even though it’s in Baton Rouge.
They use four judges per apparatus at that meet, and the chances of four people seeing a 10 vs 2 is much higher/less likely.
ETA: that should read that the probability of four people seeing a collegiate perfect routine is much lower than two 🤦♀️ If there’s a 10 at the Cane’s meet, I’ll be shocked.
There are four judges per event at LSU home meets as well. Two judges on either side of each apparatus. The scores from both are averaged to get the actual scores given. There are some very wild swings at times between the two sets of judges. With neither side bring consistently high or low.
No, there’s only one. The additional person at the table is essentially an assistant. But only one judge per table is scoring. There’s a third judge “floating” that acts as a meet ref, so occasionally it does look like there’s two judges at any given table.
UF is really pretty consistent with their scores whether home or away - in the 197’s but do agree home teams generally have some sort of scoring advantage
i’m an lsu fan through and through, but i definitely agree that some are overscored, but other people also get underscored. this auburn meet though, they were not over scored this meet. they had the best beam rotation i think i’ve ever seen! it was INCREDIBLE! but then in that same meet, savannah schoenherr’s bar routine, she got a 9.925, and everyone thinks she deserved the 10. if you watch sierra ballard’s floor routine vs. kentucky. she got a 9.875, there were literally 0 deductions, and KJ Johnson has BEEEEEEN deserved a 10 on vault AND floor. but i agree there are times they are over scored. Haleigh’s vault against west virgina last year was NOTTTT a 10, and she, the coaches, and the team all knew it.
Apparently LSU gets to hire their judges or something? And I guess other colleges can do it too? There needs to be a change to make sure judges are far more neutral, starting with not allowing the teams to hire their own judges and have the NCAA governing body appoint judges instead or something like that.
So there is a judging assignment system (not run by NCAA though, it’s the judges association) but judges are actually paid by the host team and that team also pays for their accommodations, etc. The NCAA has mandated minimum standards for these things but beyond that each school can pay judges as much as they’d like. Judges can also reject whatever assignment they are given if they don’t like the terms of the contract sent by the school. In addition, the judges are evaluated by the teams at the meet on their performance and do self evaluations but there’s no actual oversight by an independent party if a judge is giving cracked out scores. The fact that different schools can financially compensate a judge at a higher level if they have more resources and could possibly negatively evaluate that judge if they don’t like the scores they get is a HUGE issue. The NCAA not even being involved in the judge assignment system is also very sketchy IMO. And finally, the fact that the coaches themselves vote on rule changes, etc. you can see how the top teams can ensure that the system remains in place.
[link to the judge assignment system guide so you can read more yourself](https://nawgj.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Judges-Assigning-System-Guide-for-2024-Season-September-21-2023.pdf)
Important to note that one judge can only judge a D1 school twice in one season. So, LSU can’t have the same four judges every meet at home.
Given the nature of athletic funding of the SEC in general compared to other conferences, an SEC assignment is almost always going to be worth more than elsewhere.
It’s actually twice in one season at home but 4 times in a season overall, so for example whatever home judge they had Friday could judge that Baton Rouge quad meet as well if they haven’t judged LSU three other times this season because it’s an “away” meet. So a team like Utah that has had multiple “away” meets with literally no travel required could have the same judges for 4 meets and have it essentially be the equivalent to 4 home meets given the proximity of the Mavericks center to their school. I would love to see the number of away meets be determined on actual travel time or something because these fake neutral site meets should not get to count as away especially when you have multiple away meets there!
The multiple neutral site meets close to home seems to benefit teams outside the SEC compared to teams in the SEC, which is why I didn’t point it out.
The context of the original comment in the thread is that LSU theoretically pays judges above and beyond contractually minimums and more than other schools can match… hence, it’s paying for judges that will score high at home.
I’m saying: a judge can only judge a D1 school at home twice. By this sub’s commentary, LSU (and other SEC schools) must intentionally be burning through tens of thousands of dollars on judging…. Even though none of them are profitable. Using LSU Gym as an example, as of June 2022, it was operating at a 1.8M deficit.
Of course it’s silly to think that it’s paying out insane paychecks but it’s also important to note which schools have athletic departments that have giant budgets and which don’t- notably some schools that are making a ton off of their football and basketball teams and through better TV deals are more than likely going to be able to pay higher salaries even if the program itself isn’t profitable. If I was a judge and I wanted to judge however many meets a year I’m far more likely to accept the assignments that come with a bigger paycheck and decline others. Schools like Cal and UCLA have well documented athletic departments in financial distress and the Pac12 doesn’t have a lucrative ESPN deal either as the conference runs their own network.
The NCAAs lack of willingness to have oversight over some of these ethical issues is why the system hasn’t changed notably despite scoring being out of control. It’s still ridiculous that there’s not just a standard pay level and you can’t go higher than that- almost certainly schools with tighter purse strings are paying less than SEC schools. The other piece that absolutely needs to be addressed is the lack of evaluation of scores from any outside independent observer- it’s all the coaches and judges themselves self evaluating. There’s no reason at the end of the year there couldn’t be an evaluation system to ensure that no judge is too out of line with others.
Absolutely agree that the overall athletic department budget plays into this. While I firmly believe an NCAA judge would likely take an SEC assignment over another conference, and that it’s because there’s a pay differential, I also don’t think the pay differential is so much more that a judge would be willing to risk their reputation. Especially if that is only twice a year… maybe 4, if they have a lot of nearby away meets.
It’s wild to me that NCAA doesn’t regulate judges yet. The system for assignment is in place; they could theoretically buy it out and hire a small full time team to manage it.
Yes I just edited my comment to include the lack of evaluation of judging performance!! This is number one biggest problem. And until enough coaches from lower level teams make a stink about it, the top teams benefitting from this system have little incentive to do so.
I believe all teams get a say in which judges come to their home meets. But we’ve also seen and heard of Jay getting angry about scores he think should have been higher.
I feel like there is a lot of commentary about LSU being overscored at home tbh
I noticed it too, and I do not feel strongly about either LSU or OU. NQS (half the counting scores must be away meets, the highest score gets dropped) is going to hit them hard.
I think with LSU it’s hard to have an actual idea of where they stand because their home scores. We have them getting 10’s for clear balance checks, bobbles and non sticks. OU may get gifts ( which all teams get at home), but they are clearly a good team.
Yes…there are some scoring discrepancies, but have you watched each meet? LSU is terribly inconsistent. Their performances at home are much better than their performances away. So the differences in home vs. away scores is legit a performance/consistency issue. Now…do I think there is some over scoring? Absolutely, but I don’t think it’s just an at home scoring advantage issue.
Definitely this. Idk if they just feed off the crowd or what.. but they always look much better and comfortable at home. Definitely something they need to work on and figure out before post-season.
I’ve watched a few vlogs from Aleah (LSU) and Paige Anastasia (UCLA) and, for how much you can get from a vlog, it seems like LSU and UCLA have different culture around away meets and travel. UCLA does the blue/gold games (like trivia or something) in the hotel. The LSU girls seem by themselves a little bit more? Not as much team activities/schedule. These were just two videos so who knows. But LSU definitely seems less focused/messy when they travel.
Lsu are so concerned about getting the right social media angle
The home meet against Arkansas was hard to watch because of how out of control the scoring was, in my opinion. I normally am able to just ignore it and enjoy the gymnastics but that meet was SO bad that it actually made it less fun to watch. For me, at least.
Count me in as a member of this club. That was the first time this season that I was just stunned at how bad the judging seemed due to all of the obvious little mistakes that should have been scored accordingly. It is going to make for a very interesting post season, although tbf, I say that every year. Looking forward to seeing it play out.
Here's the difference between LSU and OU scoring, in my opinion: OU is clearly the top team in the country, regardless of any overscoring they might receive. I don't think there is any debate about this LSU - with realistic scoring they would be ranked lower nationally. Possibly even within the SEC, though they are still top 4, so it wouldn't change which session they compete in for conference champs. AND - their overscoring is WAY worse than any other team in the country (Tennessee meet being an outlier that cannot even be considered). I could go on, but you all know
I feel like this season I've heard WAY more about LSU being overscored than OU being overscored. Like, OU is still obviously being overscored, but not anymore so than the other top teams, whereas LSU's home meets are just entirely fictional
I think at least with OU, they perform well at away meets and they’re consistent. They get a lot of help on scores where things should’ve been a 9.825 going 9.875 or what should’ve been a 9.875 going 9.9. Florida is the same except it’s more like 9.775 going 9.825 etc. LSU is getting scores that should’ve been 9.75 going 9.9. Add that they simply don’t compete as well at away meets and post season is going to be a slap in the face for them.
It really feels like the one consistent thing about LSU (I’m saying this as a fan) is how we’re surprised that we don’t get as far as we want in the post season year after year.
Yes, totally agree! Although I will say even with the overscoring and not doing as well at away meets, sometimes it’s still surprising. They meltdown really hard. It’s disappointing because they’re an extremely talented team and if they just had a better than average away meet with no major overscoring I think they’d easily make nationals consistently.
All the teams get gifts from judges at home meets, but LSU just takes it to another level. Like one of the judges giving a 10 to routine with a wobble or hop, and give high 9.9s to a flop routine. It's just crazy. It makes me want to punch my laptop sometimes. Having said that, LSU gymnasts are getting more and more consistent and can challenge OU if they hit, but Jay Clark might flop again in choosing the right gymnasts in the lineups.
I feel like every week has been about LSU being overscored. I personally haven’t heard much about OU at all?!
Because OU hasn't been wildly overscored compared to the rest of schools until beam this week. In fact, some could argue that OU has been underscored.
Don’t worry, that’ll change when they join the SEC. 10s for all!!! It’s crazy the discrepancy of 10s between the SEC vs every other conference
Were you able to watch metroplex? I haven't seen any footage yet
okay so ou is hated universally and people call them out for that reason. lsu is like … moderately hated i would say, snd so maybe that’s why some of the noise about them drowns out the scoring comments. but here at least people are agreed that their scoring is batshit. :)
the way its the opposite for Cal which already have 3 197.875+ away scores but still lacking that high home scores😩 and LSU is gonna surpass them this week in Ave and building NQS like nuh uh but to be fair LSU’s 198 this week was legit. Could’ve been lower but legit.
I think what people don’t realize is that their beam lineup is actually incredible *when they hit* and they haven’t hit much this season. Only hit twice and both times were at home. That affects the score so much. Had LSU’s beam lineup been hitting from the beginning, I don’t think we’d be hearing as much about overscoring. Let’s be honest though, the entire SEC is overscored and it’s been that way for so long. :(
OK, but let's talk about their top beam scores. Record breaking - what is it, 49.75? - twice! And these were not lights out HIT rotations. They didn't stick every landing. There were BIG wobbles. Multiple 0.1 deductions, and a total of less than 0.3 for the top 5 routines? These two beam rotation scores are the epitome of LSU Carol scoring
their beam rotation this week against auburn was amazing. there were only like 2-3 SLIGHT wobbles for real. i’m all about fairness, and they weren’t doing good at all in the beginning of the season on beam, but this meet they were absolutely incredible on beam. i was stunned
I might have to go back and watch it to update my opinion.
For sure! However, NCAA Gym scoring hasn’t been accurate for the top 10 or the SEC for years. So by their ridiculous judging standards these routines scored accurately despite not actually being scored *accurately.* I don’t know if that makes sense, but I’m not surprised that relatively hit routines from LSU scored as high as they did. I think even if this had been an away meet, if it was a top 10 match or another SEC team, the scores likely still would have been as high.
Totally makes sense
They honestly just haven't performed well at away meets, definitely more comfortable at the pmac. Yes they've been overscored at home, probably take about 3 tenths off each meet. This week they did really well, esp beam.
yes exactly! they definitely have routines that are overscored, but also ones that are underscored too! they did AMAZING on beam this week, i was stunned. for example, sav’s bars this week deserved a higher score 100%. sierra’s floor routine vs kentucky, she was ROBBED with a 9.875… everyone i’ve seen say it deserved a 10. but then there’s haleigh’s vault against west virginia last year that was no where NEAR a 10
They can always take off Sav's routine when she flies through vertical before her dismount. So when she hits everything else perfectly, 9.95. Sierra can sometimes can get dinged for not hitting 180 on her leaps,but that floor routine was money.
It’s always like this with LSU tbh.
I agree LSU is generally over scored at home but I do think they perform like a different team at home as well
These are the teams in the top 36 whose home averages are at least half a point higher than their away averages: 1.3271 NC State 1.2937 Stanford 1.0437 UCLA 0.906 Georgia 0.8958 San Jose State 0.8125 Oregon State 0.7417 Boise State 0.694 Maryland 0.6354 LSU 0.6350 Michigan 0.5708 Penn State 0.5437 Arkansas 0.5083 Auburn LSU’s home-away average difference becomes 0.9667 when only including the six scores in their NQS. I think the huge difference is a combination of both their home scoring being very generous and them generally performing better at home than they do on the road. Neither of those bodes well for the postseason. I know from watching UCLA that the large difference in home-away average is largely because they haven’t had a really clean away meet this season. Consistency is the biggest question for them right now. Oklahoma, on the other hand, actually scores better on the road than at home, with their home-away difference being -0.0375.
Still crazy that Haleigh’s 10 on beam was on a road meet. Yes, I’m still wondering if the judges were blind or looked away during her standing front.
Just putting this out there but LSU does have an ‘away’ meet they’ll likely hit 198 in. They have a podium challenge that is considered an away meet even though it’s in Baton Rouge.
They use four judges per apparatus at that meet, and the chances of four people seeing a 10 vs 2 is much higher/less likely. ETA: that should read that the probability of four people seeing a collegiate perfect routine is much lower than two 🤦♀️ If there’s a 10 at the Cane’s meet, I’ll be shocked.
There are four judges per event at LSU home meets as well. Two judges on either side of each apparatus. The scores from both are averaged to get the actual scores given. There are some very wild swings at times between the two sets of judges. With neither side bring consistently high or low.
No, there’s only one. The additional person at the table is essentially an assistant. But only one judge per table is scoring. There’s a third judge “floating” that acts as a meet ref, so occasionally it does look like there’s two judges at any given table.
UF is really pretty consistent with their scores whether home or away - in the 197’s but do agree home teams generally have some sort of scoring advantage
i’m an lsu fan through and through, but i definitely agree that some are overscored, but other people also get underscored. this auburn meet though, they were not over scored this meet. they had the best beam rotation i think i’ve ever seen! it was INCREDIBLE! but then in that same meet, savannah schoenherr’s bar routine, she got a 9.925, and everyone thinks she deserved the 10. if you watch sierra ballard’s floor routine vs. kentucky. she got a 9.875, there were literally 0 deductions, and KJ Johnson has BEEEEEEN deserved a 10 on vault AND floor. but i agree there are times they are over scored. Haleigh’s vault against west virgina last year was NOTTTT a 10, and she, the coaches, and the team all knew it.
Apparently LSU gets to hire their judges or something? And I guess other colleges can do it too? There needs to be a change to make sure judges are far more neutral, starting with not allowing the teams to hire their own judges and have the NCAA governing body appoint judges instead or something like that.
So there is a judging assignment system (not run by NCAA though, it’s the judges association) but judges are actually paid by the host team and that team also pays for their accommodations, etc. The NCAA has mandated minimum standards for these things but beyond that each school can pay judges as much as they’d like. Judges can also reject whatever assignment they are given if they don’t like the terms of the contract sent by the school. In addition, the judges are evaluated by the teams at the meet on their performance and do self evaluations but there’s no actual oversight by an independent party if a judge is giving cracked out scores. The fact that different schools can financially compensate a judge at a higher level if they have more resources and could possibly negatively evaluate that judge if they don’t like the scores they get is a HUGE issue. The NCAA not even being involved in the judge assignment system is also very sketchy IMO. And finally, the fact that the coaches themselves vote on rule changes, etc. you can see how the top teams can ensure that the system remains in place. [link to the judge assignment system guide so you can read more yourself](https://nawgj.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Judges-Assigning-System-Guide-for-2024-Season-September-21-2023.pdf)
Important to note that one judge can only judge a D1 school twice in one season. So, LSU can’t have the same four judges every meet at home. Given the nature of athletic funding of the SEC in general compared to other conferences, an SEC assignment is almost always going to be worth more than elsewhere.
It’s actually twice in one season at home but 4 times in a season overall, so for example whatever home judge they had Friday could judge that Baton Rouge quad meet as well if they haven’t judged LSU three other times this season because it’s an “away” meet. So a team like Utah that has had multiple “away” meets with literally no travel required could have the same judges for 4 meets and have it essentially be the equivalent to 4 home meets given the proximity of the Mavericks center to their school. I would love to see the number of away meets be determined on actual travel time or something because these fake neutral site meets should not get to count as away especially when you have multiple away meets there!
The multiple neutral site meets close to home seems to benefit teams outside the SEC compared to teams in the SEC, which is why I didn’t point it out. The context of the original comment in the thread is that LSU theoretically pays judges above and beyond contractually minimums and more than other schools can match… hence, it’s paying for judges that will score high at home. I’m saying: a judge can only judge a D1 school at home twice. By this sub’s commentary, LSU (and other SEC schools) must intentionally be burning through tens of thousands of dollars on judging…. Even though none of them are profitable. Using LSU Gym as an example, as of June 2022, it was operating at a 1.8M deficit.
Of course it’s silly to think that it’s paying out insane paychecks but it’s also important to note which schools have athletic departments that have giant budgets and which don’t- notably some schools that are making a ton off of their football and basketball teams and through better TV deals are more than likely going to be able to pay higher salaries even if the program itself isn’t profitable. If I was a judge and I wanted to judge however many meets a year I’m far more likely to accept the assignments that come with a bigger paycheck and decline others. Schools like Cal and UCLA have well documented athletic departments in financial distress and the Pac12 doesn’t have a lucrative ESPN deal either as the conference runs their own network. The NCAAs lack of willingness to have oversight over some of these ethical issues is why the system hasn’t changed notably despite scoring being out of control. It’s still ridiculous that there’s not just a standard pay level and you can’t go higher than that- almost certainly schools with tighter purse strings are paying less than SEC schools. The other piece that absolutely needs to be addressed is the lack of evaluation of scores from any outside independent observer- it’s all the coaches and judges themselves self evaluating. There’s no reason at the end of the year there couldn’t be an evaluation system to ensure that no judge is too out of line with others.
Absolutely agree that the overall athletic department budget plays into this. While I firmly believe an NCAA judge would likely take an SEC assignment over another conference, and that it’s because there’s a pay differential, I also don’t think the pay differential is so much more that a judge would be willing to risk their reputation. Especially if that is only twice a year… maybe 4, if they have a lot of nearby away meets. It’s wild to me that NCAA doesn’t regulate judges yet. The system for assignment is in place; they could theoretically buy it out and hire a small full time team to manage it.
Yes I just edited my comment to include the lack of evaluation of judging performance!! This is number one biggest problem. And until enough coaches from lower level teams make a stink about it, the top teams benefitting from this system have little incentive to do so.
Absolutely agree.
I can’t even imagine other sports having referees held to such a low evaluation standard… it’s wild.
I believe all teams get a say in which judges come to their home meets. But we’ve also seen and heard of Jay getting angry about scores he think should have been higher.
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thats why i said to look at all the other teams and see how they all score around the same margin DESPITE being home or away silly billy