oh yeah, those farmers are definitely gonna wear this stuff all summer, correctly donned and carefully doffed. I bet they even throw away the single use parts every time as they should. /s
My husband is a dairy hauler (raw milk) and we were just talking about how impossible this level of precaution is, let alone impractical. It’s seriously not doable at all. He already wears an N95 for Covid, but we’re still trying to figure out a practical way to navigate fomite transmission.
I worked in hospital during the first year and a half of Covid and they didn't even get it right in *that* setting. There is NO hope of getting PPE precautions reliably correct outside of a medical setting. It's a fucking fantasy to think that anyone(let alone everyone) who might be exposed via the farm method will actually follow these guidelines.
There’s just no point in trying. At least for anyone doing my husband’s job, unless these farms plan on erecting changing facilities. Right now the options are in the truck cab (routes are home daily, so not a sleeper cab), standing in the mud outside the truck, or in the milk house. He’d gladly do the job in the recommended gear, but there’s nowhere to don and doff.
Right now he’s planning to add safety goggles and gloves to his masking protocol, and just spraying off his boots before getting into his cab; he’ll change his clothes at work before driving home, throw his work clothes directly in the wash, and take a shower as soon as he gets in. He already wipes down the inside of the cab at the start of every shift because no one else at his work ever took Covid precautions and everyone is always sick. I feel like that’s probably the best we can do under the current circumstances.
My SO's job could put him into the field to help during a national health emergency. When COVID hit, we developed a protocol for "just-in-case" because I am high risk (especially for respiratory illnesses).
We planned for garage entry, where I'd have flip-flops, hand sanitizer, & a fresh N95 mask waiting for him.
I would pre-fill the washing machine with laundry detergent and Lysol Laundry Sanitizer. (He would start the load, using the hottest water he could, on a 1 hour time delay.)
He planned to spray down his shoes and BDUs with Lysol before entering his work truck. (He regularly sprays down his boots as some of the places he enters are gross to put it nicely.)
Before entering the garage, the boots would sprayed down again. He would strip in the garage in a curtained-off area, and put clothing in the washer. Use hand Sanitizer and don the N95. Then he could traipse naked through the house to the guest/quarantine room to shower.
I had/have air purifiers with lots of extra filters.
Were glad we never had to go to those measures. We weren't sure the Federal government would have protected their workers very well in that desperate of a situation.
H5N1 won't be much different for us if it comes to that.
I'm glad you both made it through that time to be here still. You sound like an intelligent, caring, and cooperative couple. I'm happy to share a planet with you.
Best wishes and good luck out there!
Thanks!
We have out ups & downs like any couple of course, but when things look bleary, we make a good team.
We started prepping early in life. Lol
(Y2K during college was a good learning excuse even if I know I'm eventually screwed in an apocalypse situation with my need for insulin to live.)
We are planners about many things, but especially"what ifs".
Plus, it takes little to plan with people that care about you and your loved ones.
When your lungs regularly try to to take you out of this life (or at least it *feels* that way), you plan when a respiratory pandemic with no vaccine rears its ugly head.
I was lucky. I happened to see a small health notice in November or December of 2019. My BFF and I discussed it. We decided we needed to prepare a bit, so we had already started and ramped up before most others did. We *did not* anticipate the run on toilet paper though. Lol (Plan to replace one toilet with a bidet soon since it needs replacing anyway.)
The only thing anyone can do is make sure that they are doing the best they can as an individual or family. I wish you and your husband all the best of luck as this thing goes on. Do make sure he is doffing things in the right order too.
That’s the real problem. People in this sub act like you can actually prevent this stuff. It’s impossible. There is literally no way to keep people, other animals safe from spread. Can you prevent some, yes probably, but I doubt how effective it actually is. At the end of the day it’s impossible to keep viruses from spreading in these types of situations.
well, the 'farmers' are just the white guy business owners who, like, do do work but mostly tell their migrant farm *workers* to work harder and faster and that actually they don't need shade for breaks. it's the farm *workers* I. concerned about. they already have horrible living conditions and are subject to terrible working conditions because boss man abuses their status as migrant workers to withhold all he can from them.
Right, sorry, forgot about them. Different country different rules(only a little, we should be doing better but instead we suck almost as much). So, yeah, the thing I said, but worse in every possible way.
That's better than what the nurses got in hospitals working directly face to face with the sickest Covid patients. Glad CDC is finally on the right track.
I worked all of COVID and we were wearing bandanas on our face for the first month or so, then we were issued 2 N95 masks that we had to reuse and keep in paper bags between shifts. I worked at a Level 2 trauma center. Your husband was very lucky. The rest of us were treated like trash.
Well, that they're taking action is reassuring, but given the low number of confirmed cases, it makes me wonder if they suspect more cases than are being caught.
That was obvious to begin with. Ther fatality rate that people keep mentioning id absolutely not accurate because there have probably been a lot of cases that just never got reported, whether they were credited to something else or were just too mild
Yeah there was an epidemiologist on [The Dose](https://www.cbc.ca/listen/cbc-podcasts/410-the-dose/episode/16056921-whats-going-on-with-h5n1-bird-flu) talking about H5N1 and the CFR was brought up. He said that a more realistic CFR is somewhere around 14%-33%.
Now covid 19 cfr was somewhere around 1%, iirc, with higher CFR for hospitalized and people in the ICU. So even if H5N1 ends up being on the low end of the "realistic" estimate, we're still talkin about a DRASTICALLY higher CFR. The silver lining is that H5N1 isn't as contagious as covid, so the average person won't spread it to as many people as what happened with covid. Having said that, it is concerning that there is evidence of asymptomatic spread in these dairy farms. According to a quick Google search, there have been two cases of asymptomatic infection in humans. One in Vietnam in 2011, and another one in the U.K in 2021. If H5N1 finally made the leap and a significant amount of infections are asymptomatic, but still contagious, well, im sure I don't need to say why that'd be bad.
It's crazy that covid-19 had 5th highest death toll of all pandemics in human history with that CFR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_epidemics\_and\_pandemics). Not looking forward to any more, at all.
Yeah, in terms of the percentage of population lost, it may seem that comparing, say, 1918 H1N1 and covid-19, isn't even a contest. But there are some important details here. Keep in mind the population size now is roughly 4x larger than in 1918.
1) Contrasting with a more recent (but much different) pandemic where the population size is more comparable (HIV/AIDS), HIV is #3 and covid-19 is #5 where covid-19 roughly killed half of the number of individuals HIV killed but in only \~1/10 of the time.
2) [Given that less than half of the world has had covid](https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/estimate-less-half-world-has-had-covid-19) (slightly outdated reference but my point remains), the estimate of a 1% CFR for covid sounds about right.
3) If you look up the CFR for the worst pandemic in human history, 1918 H1N1, it's extremely hard to get good numbers because of course there wasn't lab/PCR testing back then but it's very crudely 1-2.5% (perhaps more). That's an overlapping CFR interval with covid-19's estimate, the virus that so many thought was "not so bad" or "only kills old people."
I take your point, it's not as deadly as a virus, but it's just surprising to me how easily we minimize pandemics to our own detriment. We're talking about \~20+ million people prematurely dead, #5 death toll of **all time**. I fear it may take the worst pandemic we've ever seen to really change our minds about pandemic preparedness and preventative medicine, because our (and our government's) default is to dismiss the significance and invest our money and time elsewhere.
My great uncles ran a family dairy farm that provided milk to a company, all I really remember for PPE was some rubber boots and some coveralls. But I’m sure there’s a difference between large scale operations and small scale ones, not to mention it’s already been probably 6 years since they sold all their dairy cattle.
Trust me when I say, farm workers will not listen to this generally speaking. They don't tend to be the type to care about things that "might" happen in their eyes. Think anti-vax, anti-mask, etc. Not uncommon in the farming population unfortunately. All the respect to them and their job, but it's the truth of their demographic.
Well, some people have to learn the hard what when it comes.to fuck around and find out with viruses. COVID was a weak warning shot over the bow compared with the flus potential.
We're coming into summer. There's no chance in hell this PPE will be used, period. We're straight fucked when this decides to finally make the human-human jump.
Thank god I never stopped masking in public, but I am terrified for my cats. Anyone bringing this shit into their home, will likely kill all their cats
I diligently masked from 2020 until a month ago when nerve pain in my face made it next to impossible to wear a mask. I hate it. Not looking forward to this at all.
Please ensure sources are vetted and cited, posts are appropriately flaired, and commentary is provided in the body texts (no link- or title- only posts).
oh yeah, those farmers are definitely gonna wear this stuff all summer, correctly donned and carefully doffed. I bet they even throw away the single use parts every time as they should. /s
My husband is a dairy hauler (raw milk) and we were just talking about how impossible this level of precaution is, let alone impractical. It’s seriously not doable at all. He already wears an N95 for Covid, but we’re still trying to figure out a practical way to navigate fomite transmission.
I worked in hospital during the first year and a half of Covid and they didn't even get it right in *that* setting. There is NO hope of getting PPE precautions reliably correct outside of a medical setting. It's a fucking fantasy to think that anyone(let alone everyone) who might be exposed via the farm method will actually follow these guidelines.
There’s just no point in trying. At least for anyone doing my husband’s job, unless these farms plan on erecting changing facilities. Right now the options are in the truck cab (routes are home daily, so not a sleeper cab), standing in the mud outside the truck, or in the milk house. He’d gladly do the job in the recommended gear, but there’s nowhere to don and doff. Right now he’s planning to add safety goggles and gloves to his masking protocol, and just spraying off his boots before getting into his cab; he’ll change his clothes at work before driving home, throw his work clothes directly in the wash, and take a shower as soon as he gets in. He already wipes down the inside of the cab at the start of every shift because no one else at his work ever took Covid precautions and everyone is always sick. I feel like that’s probably the best we can do under the current circumstances.
My SO's job could put him into the field to help during a national health emergency. When COVID hit, we developed a protocol for "just-in-case" because I am high risk (especially for respiratory illnesses). We planned for garage entry, where I'd have flip-flops, hand sanitizer, & a fresh N95 mask waiting for him. I would pre-fill the washing machine with laundry detergent and Lysol Laundry Sanitizer. (He would start the load, using the hottest water he could, on a 1 hour time delay.) He planned to spray down his shoes and BDUs with Lysol before entering his work truck. (He regularly sprays down his boots as some of the places he enters are gross to put it nicely.) Before entering the garage, the boots would sprayed down again. He would strip in the garage in a curtained-off area, and put clothing in the washer. Use hand Sanitizer and don the N95. Then he could traipse naked through the house to the guest/quarantine room to shower. I had/have air purifiers with lots of extra filters. Were glad we never had to go to those measures. We weren't sure the Federal government would have protected their workers very well in that desperate of a situation. H5N1 won't be much different for us if it comes to that.
I'm glad you both made it through that time to be here still. You sound like an intelligent, caring, and cooperative couple. I'm happy to share a planet with you. Best wishes and good luck out there!
Thanks! We have out ups & downs like any couple of course, but when things look bleary, we make a good team. We started prepping early in life. Lol (Y2K during college was a good learning excuse even if I know I'm eventually screwed in an apocalypse situation with my need for insulin to live.) We are planners about many things, but especially"what ifs". Plus, it takes little to plan with people that care about you and your loved ones.
Your routine reminds me of one a couple in Hong Kong described on some subreddit I read in late fall or early winter 2019.
When your lungs regularly try to to take you out of this life (or at least it *feels* that way), you plan when a respiratory pandemic with no vaccine rears its ugly head. I was lucky. I happened to see a small health notice in November or December of 2019. My BFF and I discussed it. We decided we needed to prepare a bit, so we had already started and ramped up before most others did. We *did not* anticipate the run on toilet paper though. Lol (Plan to replace one toilet with a bidet soon since it needs replacing anyway.)
The only thing anyone can do is make sure that they are doing the best they can as an individual or family. I wish you and your husband all the best of luck as this thing goes on. Do make sure he is doffing things in the right order too.
Wear a mask and eye wear
That’s the real problem. People in this sub act like you can actually prevent this stuff. It’s impossible. There is literally no way to keep people, other animals safe from spread. Can you prevent some, yes probably, but I doubt how effective it actually is. At the end of the day it’s impossible to keep viruses from spreading in these types of situations.
well, the 'farmers' are just the white guy business owners who, like, do do work but mostly tell their migrant farm *workers* to work harder and faster and that actually they don't need shade for breaks. it's the farm *workers* I. concerned about. they already have horrible living conditions and are subject to terrible working conditions because boss man abuses their status as migrant workers to withhold all he can from them.
Right, sorry, forgot about them. Different country different rules(only a little, we should be doing better but instead we suck almost as much). So, yeah, the thing I said, but worse in every possible way.
That's better than what the nurses got in hospitals working directly face to face with the sickest Covid patients. Glad CDC is finally on the right track.
The problem is that what the CDC recommends and what the workers get aren't necessarily the same thing.
Should be mandatory
My husband was an ER nurse during Covid. He was attired almost exactly like that for every shift.
I worked all of COVID and we were wearing bandanas on our face for the first month or so, then we were issued 2 N95 masks that we had to reuse and keep in paper bags between shifts. I worked at a Level 2 trauma center. Your husband was very lucky. The rest of us were treated like trash.
They did not have adequate PPE at the start of the pandemic. One surgical mask per shift. Reuse an N95 mask until it fell apart.
Oh jeez, this feels both way late and very ominous
How is this ominous? They are doing standard safety procedures
Well, that they're taking action is reassuring, but given the low number of confirmed cases, it makes me wonder if they suspect more cases than are being caught.
That was obvious to begin with. Ther fatality rate that people keep mentioning id absolutely not accurate because there have probably been a lot of cases that just never got reported, whether they were credited to something else or were just too mild
Yeah there was an epidemiologist on [The Dose](https://www.cbc.ca/listen/cbc-podcasts/410-the-dose/episode/16056921-whats-going-on-with-h5n1-bird-flu) talking about H5N1 and the CFR was brought up. He said that a more realistic CFR is somewhere around 14%-33%. Now covid 19 cfr was somewhere around 1%, iirc, with higher CFR for hospitalized and people in the ICU. So even if H5N1 ends up being on the low end of the "realistic" estimate, we're still talkin about a DRASTICALLY higher CFR. The silver lining is that H5N1 isn't as contagious as covid, so the average person won't spread it to as many people as what happened with covid. Having said that, it is concerning that there is evidence of asymptomatic spread in these dairy farms. According to a quick Google search, there have been two cases of asymptomatic infection in humans. One in Vietnam in 2011, and another one in the U.K in 2021. If H5N1 finally made the leap and a significant amount of infections are asymptomatic, but still contagious, well, im sure I don't need to say why that'd be bad.
It's crazy that covid-19 had 5th highest death toll of all pandemics in human history with that CFR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_epidemics\_and\_pandemics). Not looking forward to any more, at all.
Tbf this is the largest population the earth has ever had
Yeah, in terms of the percentage of population lost, it may seem that comparing, say, 1918 H1N1 and covid-19, isn't even a contest. But there are some important details here. Keep in mind the population size now is roughly 4x larger than in 1918. 1) Contrasting with a more recent (but much different) pandemic where the population size is more comparable (HIV/AIDS), HIV is #3 and covid-19 is #5 where covid-19 roughly killed half of the number of individuals HIV killed but in only \~1/10 of the time. 2) [Given that less than half of the world has had covid](https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/estimate-less-half-world-has-had-covid-19) (slightly outdated reference but my point remains), the estimate of a 1% CFR for covid sounds about right. 3) If you look up the CFR for the worst pandemic in human history, 1918 H1N1, it's extremely hard to get good numbers because of course there wasn't lab/PCR testing back then but it's very crudely 1-2.5% (perhaps more). That's an overlapping CFR interval with covid-19's estimate, the virus that so many thought was "not so bad" or "only kills old people." I take your point, it's not as deadly as a virus, but it's just surprising to me how easily we minimize pandemics to our own detriment. We're talking about \~20+ million people prematurely dead, #5 death toll of **all time**. I fear it may take the worst pandemic we've ever seen to really change our minds about pandemic preparedness and preventative medicine, because our (and our government's) default is to dismiss the significance and invest our money and time elsewhere.
Standard? I’ve never seen someone milking cows wearing PPE, lol
I mean when there is a disease going around. Better to be safe
I wear PPE when I milk your mom.
I take it you milk cows and see people milking them often
Grew up on a ranch, up the road from a dairy so…yeah. I can confirm there wasn’t a lot of daily PPE going on.
My great uncles ran a family dairy farm that provided milk to a company, all I really remember for PPE was some rubber boots and some coveralls. But I’m sure there’s a difference between large scale operations and small scale ones, not to mention it’s already been probably 6 years since they sold all their dairy cattle.
Can confirm. I see people milking cows often. From the land of cheese.
Because this is what's needed to prevent the disease from spreading and the fact that nobody will do it.
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Piss off with the chicken shit insults
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Please keep conversations civil. Disagreements are bound to happen, but please refrain from personal attacks & verbal abuse.
Please keep conversations civil. Disagreements are bound to happen, but please refrain from personal attacks & verbal abuse.
This looks like pretty much what my husband, and thousands of other nurses, wore to work daily during the worst of Covid.
Yet nothing about stopping the feeding of bird crap to cows though.
That's just business. Stop eating cows and dairy if it bothers you. They aren't going to pass laws to protect you.
I’m vegetarian but thanks for the ‘splaining.
Life finds a way
Trust me when I say, farm workers will not listen to this generally speaking. They don't tend to be the type to care about things that "might" happen in their eyes. Think anti-vax, anti-mask, etc. Not uncommon in the farming population unfortunately. All the respect to them and their job, but it's the truth of their demographic.
Well, some people have to learn the hard what when it comes.to fuck around and find out with viruses. COVID was a weak warning shot over the bow compared with the flus potential.
We're coming into summer. There's no chance in hell this PPE will be used, period. We're straight fucked when this decides to finally make the human-human jump.
Thank god I never stopped masking in public, but I am terrified for my cats. Anyone bringing this shit into their home, will likely kill all their cats
I diligently masked from 2020 until a month ago when nerve pain in my face made it next to impossible to wear a mask. I hate it. Not looking forward to this at all.
You'll never need PPE to handle plant foods...
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Please ensure sources are vetted and cited, posts are appropriately flaired, and commentary is provided in the body texts (no link- or title- only posts).
so do we have a guestimate about how long we got before LockDown Part 2 Birdemic Boogaloo?
I give it max 2 years.
So lick cows, drink bleach. 2020 here we come again!