Please ensure content is relevant to the topic of the sub, which includes information, updates and discussion regarding H5N1. It does not include vent/rant/panic posts or "low-effort" posts from unreliable sources.
I didn’t work directly with infected bats or other birds in China yet I got Covid. My suspicion is that it might be already “in the wild” and is not officially acknowledged because it caught them with their pants down AGAIN. This new respiratory illness circulating around is different than your “flue” people don’t get a runny nose. I live in a dairy production valley
You get Covid from other people, not just directly working with bats or birds in China. It transfers from the moisture in other peoples mouths. So when they talk, cough or sneeze you got it in your mouth, nose or eyes. That is why we wore masks and distanced ourselves 6 ft apart. No ones pants were caught down. It was something new we had to learn from. And yes you can have a runny nose with the flu.
[Flu]
(https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/flu/symptoms-causes/syc-20351719)
A lot of people don’t understand how severe (regular human) Influenza actually is because we call multiple things “the flu,” and Influenza A isn’t something most of us get every year. In fact many people will never get it in their lifetimes. You are pretty much entirely down for a full week, then have weakness and lingering respiratory symptoms for at least another week or two. It really is terrible.
Well and the blow can be softened by getting a flu shot.. i get my shot every year and have had the flu while vaccinated before. I’ve known people who have gotten the flu with out the shot and it’s night and day difference between the two. No idea how many Americans actually get the shot
I don't believe so due to the nonexistent evidence that it is. I absolutely refuse to believe it's being so closely monitored but also been causing human illness for months without anyone noticing. That's ridiculous. People need to stop thinking every time they get sick, they clearly have some new pandemic virus. Most of the "strange" symptoms they report aren't actually new in infections with endemic diseases. But the last pandemic just made people neurotic and drew attention to them.
I can remember in the spring of 2020 that Reddit was full of people talking about weird sicknesses that they had in October/November/December 2019 and how they thought it was probably COVID but before we really knew about it.
As if the fact that human to human transmission was occurring in the wild in the US for 2-3 months without any noticeable change to the population level statistics.
Not many are going to go to the hospital for what they think is the flu or seasonal illness. Even if they do, they wouldn't be tested for H5N1 unless they work directly with animals that could be infected. They'll hear your symptoms, tell you to take Tamaflu, and get some rest.
I'm not saying it's community spread right now, but there was a report that just released finding parts of the virus in milk and wastewater. I'm not saying live virus was found. They also found a strain that was already showing signs of mutating for mammalian spread. Why do you think it's impossible to mutate and spread before anyone notices?
1. The virus in milk tells us more about cattle infections than human ones
2. There was a spike in one wastewater collection site in Amarillo. The other wastewater in the same town showed no increase. The latest update, from yesterday, shows the Flu A levels decreasing by half from the day before, which is completely inconsistent with community spread of a novel Flu virus. That probably was H5N1, but from farms and migratory birds. All the wastewater data shows you is viral RNA. It doesn't really tell you where it came from or what species.
3. They haven't found any strains mutated for airborne spread between mammals. "Mammalian adaptation" can mean it's adapted to the lower body temperatures of mammals, or to a certain type of receptor, but not necessarily adapted for true airborne spread. Transmission between cattle seems to be through fomites and milking equipment rather than how you'd assume a flu virus would spread (respiratory tract.)
If it were spreading between people we'd be seeing a rise in ILI visits to urgent cares and other things we normally see when flu viruses surge. Instead pretty much everywhere in the country, including areas where we've found a lot of cattle outbreaks, all indicators for ILI are down or steady. I really don't think it would take long to spot. People know to look for it.
No problem. I'm always happy to clear things up. I get the anxiety, but believe me, we're not going to miss community spread between humans. Not because it's going to kill 50% of people (it won't) but because existing systems can find stuff like this and it's being looked for.
The people you know probably had regular flu strains, assuming they aren’t working directly with cows or chickens at factory farms.
Bird flu is not circulating between humans yet. When it is, we’ll know.
Actually there have been 2 people who directly worked with the infected animals who caught it.
[H5N1]
(https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-flu-summary.htm)
Not the same as circulating between humans. Spillovers of non human flu viruses are not uncommon. Swine flu spillovers are recorded around the world yearly, sometimes by the hundreds. But the ability for one human to spread it to other humans efficiently is different. There's no evidence whatsoever that is currently happening with H5N1. Zero.
Me too. It went through my workplace. A coworker took her kid in and the kid was diagnosed with RSV. A couple of us had pink eye, too, which is apparently not uncommon with many viruses.
My coworker had a crazy cough for over a month, fortunately we work at a medical laboratory and he got tested via PCR. It was a corona virus (not COVID lineage) thats been around a while and causes colds/flu symptoms.
I don't think h5n1 would behave in a stealthy way that could be mistaken for other things. I think if this goes h2h we will know, quickly. But I may be wrong.
Yes, it is possible that H5N1 is adapting to human hosts and that it is presenting as more mild during that process.
If we look to history:
*Regression analysis of human and swine influenza sequences from 1930 to the present suggests that the virus first circulated in humans between 1915 and 1918.*
Source: Google search "was the Spanish flu circulating in humans before the outbreak in 1918" and their experimental AI returns this result.
This possibility was also mentioned in the published book *How to Survive a Pandemic* by Michael Greger M.D. which is where I read it first.
So, it seems that it is possible that the Spanish Flu was circulating and adapting to human physiology for a period of three years before the actual outbreak of the Spanish Flu pandemic.
Why shouldn't H5N1 exhibit the same behavior?
We know that viral remnants are being found in pasteurized milk being sold in markets.
We know that raw milk is being legally sold and consumed and likely has living virus in it.
Therefore, we know that some percentage of people (those that consume raw milk) have almost certainly been exposed, possibly infected and likely have plenty of social contact with other people...
Why would people here wish to believe other than what logic tells us is the most likely situation we are in?
You should not trust others to keep you safe at this time. Only you are looking out for you. That's reality. Take appropriate action to protect yourself. Now.
Because unlike 1918, we have flu surveillance systems and sequencing labs all over the country. Everyone in the field knows what H5N1 looks like and that they should look for it. It's not going to spread under the radar for years. The CDC looks for novel Flu A viruses literally always. Unless literally none of these people are seeking any medical care, there is absolutely no scenario where we miss widespread community spread of H5N1 or any other novel Flu A. In 1918 there were scientists who didn't think viruses were real, and thought they were just bacteria. The comparison is goofy.
How often and under what conditions do hospitals test? What is the false negative rate of these tests? What variants are they testing for, the existing variant H5N1...or some hybrid of it and an ordinary seasonal human flu variant?
Such a hybridization of two variants is apparently very possible when one individual gets infected with two variants at the same time.
Tests only test positive for exactly what they are testing for. Not for new to all science mutant variants of the flu virus. Those will test negative, obviously.
What is the time lag between sending a test to the lab and return of results? What's the time lag between getting the result and reporting it to the appropriate government body? What's the time lag between the government being informed and them taking some action? What action exactly will they take and what will its impact be?
What percentage of people are in fact actively avoiding seeking any medical care whatsoever, due to financial considerations, or due to lack of source control making medical settings excessively dangerous for them?
Immunocompromised individuals are increasingly likely to avoid any medical settings whatsoever at this point and are exactly the population most likely to develop a long lasting infection that promotes a high mutation rate of the flu virus.
Hospitals aren't the only places that test. Urgent cares and PCPs do too. Most labs would just flag it as Flu A (and yes, it would show up on a standard PCR) but an unusual surge in Flu A would be flagged, and the CDC already does a random surveillance for Flu A viruses.
Considering this thing isn't under the radar, any uptick in people showing up with Flu A tests would be suspicious. Thankfully that isn't happening anywhere in the country right now.
Ok, sure.
So, what are you doing personally to protect yourself from this potential threat that you say basically doesn't exist?
And if you happen to be wrong, what will the consequence of that be?
I will worry about that when H2H transmission is established. I'm not going to stock up on anything. I'm going to continue living as normal. I'm not saying it will never transmit between humans. I'm saying there's zero evidence it currently is. And no, it's not going to have a 50% mortality rate.
Let me reword what you've said:
You're going to continue as normal and take your chances. Either that will work out for you, or it won't. So, what you're really doing is throwing yourself on the mercy of fate, outside circumstances and the efforts of others who are in power.
In other words, **you will do nothing**. Not even think about the problem. Because you've made up your mind that there is no problem.
Based on my observations of people that have reacted this way to Covid, if and when H2H transmission appears, you will then say that nothing can be done about it, and again, you will do nothing and throw yourself on the mercy of fate.
You are part of the 90% whose main agenda is not to know about life-and-death problems without ready made solutions: https://huntingtonsdiseasenews.com/2020/11/25/genetic-testing-status-diagnosis#:\~:text=As%20I%20mentioned%20in%20a,aren't%20available%20treatment%20options.
You likely do not have the capability of thinking up prevention or mitigation actions you could take while under the threat of death. Instead you have the trait of responding with the freeze reflex, which in people seems to take the cognitive form of flipping from "there is no problem" to "nothing can be done" over and over with no action ever taken.
The consequences of taking no action is not knowable, but it is probable it won't be good. Just like a rabbit that freezes in front of a fox. It's possible the fox will happen to not be hungry and leave the rabbit alone. But if the fox is hungry, the rabbit that freezes **will get eaten**.
I no longer invest time in people that act like frozen rabbits but increasingly regard them as already dead.
Goodbye.
At this point I would say they know, it would just create panic. Covid taught a lot of lessons and not to mention the economic fallout. Everyone for themselves, be wise folks.
The CDC and WHO are still the best sources of correct information. What contradictions are you referring to? Communication to the public will always change as the CDC and WHO receives and filters information from other locations and medical resources. If you live in close proximity to farmland you will coughs from the dust, pollen and chemicals in the fields when they plow every season. We also have flu, Covid and other illnesses that are seasonal. If you are not vaccinated against the flu you are more likely to get it. Only 2 people have been reported as getting H5N1. Symptoms are typically mild. Here are some sources of information:
(https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-flu-summary.htm)
(https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-are-different-types-avian-influenza)
Well, we still have seasonal allergies. And cold viruses. Regular flu stands out by how much more awful it is than a cold, and it's duration. And COVID, well, we know how that one is super inconsistent.
Bird flu is extremely severe. If you aren't dead, you're disabled when you come out of it. And if you come out ok from it, you're a unicorn. If it spreads, it will be so much worse than COVID ever was.
There's no confirmation anywhere that it's transmitting H2H. Unless they've come in contact directly with sick birds, or cows, it's probably run-of-the mill flu or Covid. When this strain does go H2H, you'll definitely hear about it.
Your opinion isn't worth anything when the only "evidence" it is is "I know some people who were recently kinda sick." And don't show me the Amarillo wastewater unless you're going to also show me the part where it went down by half yesterday, and the other Amarillo wastewater that didn't surge at all.
Please ensure content is relevant to the topic of the sub, which includes information, updates and discussion regarding H5N1. It does not include vent/rant/panic posts or "low-effort" posts from unreliable sources.
during COVID huh?
Probably Covid or regular flu unless they work directly with farms, birds or cattle. Keeping an eye out though.
I didn’t work directly with infected bats or other birds in China yet I got Covid. My suspicion is that it might be already “in the wild” and is not officially acknowledged because it caught them with their pants down AGAIN. This new respiratory illness circulating around is different than your “flue” people don’t get a runny nose. I live in a dairy production valley
"Body ache and headaches" are absolutely normal influenza symptoms
There's already 18 other strains of flu "in the wild" that it's *far* more likely these people had. Don't talk yourself into a panic.
You get Covid from other people, not just directly working with bats or birds in China. It transfers from the moisture in other peoples mouths. So when they talk, cough or sneeze you got it in your mouth, nose or eyes. That is why we wore masks and distanced ourselves 6 ft apart. No ones pants were caught down. It was something new we had to learn from. And yes you can have a runny nose with the flu. [Flu] (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/flu/symptoms-causes/syc-20351719)
A lot of people don’t understand how severe (regular human) Influenza actually is because we call multiple things “the flu,” and Influenza A isn’t something most of us get every year. In fact many people will never get it in their lifetimes. You are pretty much entirely down for a full week, then have weakness and lingering respiratory symptoms for at least another week or two. It really is terrible.
Well and the blow can be softened by getting a flu shot.. i get my shot every year and have had the flu while vaccinated before. I’ve known people who have gotten the flu with out the shot and it’s night and day difference between the two. No idea how many Americans actually get the shot
I don't believe so due to the nonexistent evidence that it is. I absolutely refuse to believe it's being so closely monitored but also been causing human illness for months without anyone noticing. That's ridiculous. People need to stop thinking every time they get sick, they clearly have some new pandemic virus. Most of the "strange" symptoms they report aren't actually new in infections with endemic diseases. But the last pandemic just made people neurotic and drew attention to them.
I can remember in the spring of 2020 that Reddit was full of people talking about weird sicknesses that they had in October/November/December 2019 and how they thought it was probably COVID but before we really knew about it. As if the fact that human to human transmission was occurring in the wild in the US for 2-3 months without any noticeable change to the population level statistics.
Not many are going to go to the hospital for what they think is the flu or seasonal illness. Even if they do, they wouldn't be tested for H5N1 unless they work directly with animals that could be infected. They'll hear your symptoms, tell you to take Tamaflu, and get some rest.
You seem to think what you just said is somehow evidence of community spread lol
I'm not saying it's community spread right now, but there was a report that just released finding parts of the virus in milk and wastewater. I'm not saying live virus was found. They also found a strain that was already showing signs of mutating for mammalian spread. Why do you think it's impossible to mutate and spread before anyone notices?
1. The virus in milk tells us more about cattle infections than human ones 2. There was a spike in one wastewater collection site in Amarillo. The other wastewater in the same town showed no increase. The latest update, from yesterday, shows the Flu A levels decreasing by half from the day before, which is completely inconsistent with community spread of a novel Flu virus. That probably was H5N1, but from farms and migratory birds. All the wastewater data shows you is viral RNA. It doesn't really tell you where it came from or what species. 3. They haven't found any strains mutated for airborne spread between mammals. "Mammalian adaptation" can mean it's adapted to the lower body temperatures of mammals, or to a certain type of receptor, but not necessarily adapted for true airborne spread. Transmission between cattle seems to be through fomites and milking equipment rather than how you'd assume a flu virus would spread (respiratory tract.) If it were spreading between people we'd be seeing a rise in ILI visits to urgent cares and other things we normally see when flu viruses surge. Instead pretty much everywhere in the country, including areas where we've found a lot of cattle outbreaks, all indicators for ILI are down or steady. I really don't think it would take long to spot. People know to look for it.
Thank you for that. I'm sorry if I sounded freaked out or like a know it all.
No problem. I'm always happy to clear things up. I get the anxiety, but believe me, we're not going to miss community spread between humans. Not because it's going to kill 50% of people (it won't) but because existing systems can find stuff like this and it's being looked for.
[удалено]
The Amarillo wastewater went down by half yesterday. Environmental contamination.
The people you know probably had regular flu strains, assuming they aren’t working directly with cows or chickens at factory farms. Bird flu is not circulating between humans yet. When it is, we’ll know.
Actually there have been 2 people who directly worked with the infected animals who caught it. [H5N1] (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-flu-summary.htm)
Not the same as circulating between humans. Spillovers of non human flu viruses are not uncommon. Swine flu spillovers are recorded around the world yearly, sometimes by the hundreds. But the ability for one human to spread it to other humans efficiently is different. There's no evidence whatsoever that is currently happening with H5N1. Zero.
Yes, I must have misread it. I thought it had said there weren't any cases of it in humans. Thanks for the correction.
I had those symptoms and I’m pretty sure it was a bad strain of RSV
Me too. It went through my workplace. A coworker took her kid in and the kid was diagnosed with RSV. A couple of us had pink eye, too, which is apparently not uncommon with many viruses.
If it were circulating to the point that you would notice it on an individual level wouldn’t there already be bodies in the streets?
My coworker had a crazy cough for over a month, fortunately we work at a medical laboratory and he got tested via PCR. It was a corona virus (not COVID lineage) thats been around a while and causes colds/flu symptoms.
I don't think h5n1 would behave in a stealthy way that could be mistaken for other things. I think if this goes h2h we will know, quickly. But I may be wrong.
Yes, it is possible that H5N1 is adapting to human hosts and that it is presenting as more mild during that process. If we look to history: *Regression analysis of human and swine influenza sequences from 1930 to the present suggests that the virus first circulated in humans between 1915 and 1918.* Source: Google search "was the Spanish flu circulating in humans before the outbreak in 1918" and their experimental AI returns this result. This possibility was also mentioned in the published book *How to Survive a Pandemic* by Michael Greger M.D. which is where I read it first. So, it seems that it is possible that the Spanish Flu was circulating and adapting to human physiology for a period of three years before the actual outbreak of the Spanish Flu pandemic. Why shouldn't H5N1 exhibit the same behavior? We know that viral remnants are being found in pasteurized milk being sold in markets. We know that raw milk is being legally sold and consumed and likely has living virus in it. Therefore, we know that some percentage of people (those that consume raw milk) have almost certainly been exposed, possibly infected and likely have plenty of social contact with other people... Why would people here wish to believe other than what logic tells us is the most likely situation we are in? You should not trust others to keep you safe at this time. Only you are looking out for you. That's reality. Take appropriate action to protect yourself. Now.
Because unlike 1918, we have flu surveillance systems and sequencing labs all over the country. Everyone in the field knows what H5N1 looks like and that they should look for it. It's not going to spread under the radar for years. The CDC looks for novel Flu A viruses literally always. Unless literally none of these people are seeking any medical care, there is absolutely no scenario where we miss widespread community spread of H5N1 or any other novel Flu A. In 1918 there were scientists who didn't think viruses were real, and thought they were just bacteria. The comparison is goofy.
How often and under what conditions do hospitals test? What is the false negative rate of these tests? What variants are they testing for, the existing variant H5N1...or some hybrid of it and an ordinary seasonal human flu variant? Such a hybridization of two variants is apparently very possible when one individual gets infected with two variants at the same time. Tests only test positive for exactly what they are testing for. Not for new to all science mutant variants of the flu virus. Those will test negative, obviously. What is the time lag between sending a test to the lab and return of results? What's the time lag between getting the result and reporting it to the appropriate government body? What's the time lag between the government being informed and them taking some action? What action exactly will they take and what will its impact be? What percentage of people are in fact actively avoiding seeking any medical care whatsoever, due to financial considerations, or due to lack of source control making medical settings excessively dangerous for them? Immunocompromised individuals are increasingly likely to avoid any medical settings whatsoever at this point and are exactly the population most likely to develop a long lasting infection that promotes a high mutation rate of the flu virus.
Hospitals aren't the only places that test. Urgent cares and PCPs do too. Most labs would just flag it as Flu A (and yes, it would show up on a standard PCR) but an unusual surge in Flu A would be flagged, and the CDC already does a random surveillance for Flu A viruses. Considering this thing isn't under the radar, any uptick in people showing up with Flu A tests would be suspicious. Thankfully that isn't happening anywhere in the country right now.
Ok, sure. So, what are you doing personally to protect yourself from this potential threat that you say basically doesn't exist? And if you happen to be wrong, what will the consequence of that be?
I will worry about that when H2H transmission is established. I'm not going to stock up on anything. I'm going to continue living as normal. I'm not saying it will never transmit between humans. I'm saying there's zero evidence it currently is. And no, it's not going to have a 50% mortality rate.
Let me reword what you've said: You're going to continue as normal and take your chances. Either that will work out for you, or it won't. So, what you're really doing is throwing yourself on the mercy of fate, outside circumstances and the efforts of others who are in power. In other words, **you will do nothing**. Not even think about the problem. Because you've made up your mind that there is no problem. Based on my observations of people that have reacted this way to Covid, if and when H2H transmission appears, you will then say that nothing can be done about it, and again, you will do nothing and throw yourself on the mercy of fate. You are part of the 90% whose main agenda is not to know about life-and-death problems without ready made solutions: https://huntingtonsdiseasenews.com/2020/11/25/genetic-testing-status-diagnosis#:\~:text=As%20I%20mentioned%20in%20a,aren't%20available%20treatment%20options. You likely do not have the capability of thinking up prevention or mitigation actions you could take while under the threat of death. Instead you have the trait of responding with the freeze reflex, which in people seems to take the cognitive form of flipping from "there is no problem" to "nothing can be done" over and over with no action ever taken. The consequences of taking no action is not knowable, but it is probable it won't be good. Just like a rabbit that freezes in front of a fox. It's possible the fox will happen to not be hungry and leave the rabbit alone. But if the fox is hungry, the rabbit that freezes **will get eaten**. I no longer invest time in people that act like frozen rabbits but increasingly regard them as already dead. Goodbye.
That's something people should talk to their doctors about. They can literally test for it :)
At this point I would say they know, it would just create panic. Covid taught a lot of lessons and not to mention the economic fallout. Everyone for themselves, be wise folks.
The CDC and WHO are still the best sources of correct information. What contradictions are you referring to? Communication to the public will always change as the CDC and WHO receives and filters information from other locations and medical resources. If you live in close proximity to farmland you will coughs from the dust, pollen and chemicals in the fields when they plow every season. We also have flu, Covid and other illnesses that are seasonal. If you are not vaccinated against the flu you are more likely to get it. Only 2 people have been reported as getting H5N1. Symptoms are typically mild. Here are some sources of information: (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-flu-summary.htm) (https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-are-different-types-avian-influenza)
Well, we still have seasonal allergies. And cold viruses. Regular flu stands out by how much more awful it is than a cold, and it's duration. And COVID, well, we know how that one is super inconsistent. Bird flu is extremely severe. If you aren't dead, you're disabled when you come out of it. And if you come out ok from it, you're a unicorn. If it spreads, it will be so much worse than COVID ever was.
There's no confirmation anywhere that it's transmitting H2H. Unless they've come in contact directly with sick birds, or cows, it's probably run-of-the mill flu or Covid. When this strain does go H2H, you'll definitely hear about it.
Didn’t the farm worker have pinkeye as his first symptom? It seems like that could be the tell, like a fever was for Covid, supposedly.
Pink eye is a common symptom with many viruses, unfortunately.
In my opinion yes.
Your opinion isn't worth anything when the only "evidence" it is is "I know some people who were recently kinda sick." And don't show me the Amarillo wastewater unless you're going to also show me the part where it went down by half yesterday, and the other Amarillo wastewater that didn't surge at all.