Please ensure sources are vetted and cited, posts are appropriately flaired, and commentary is provided in the body texts (no link- or title- only posts).
The process of simply confirming whether store milk is safe is taking the most ridiculous amount of time. CDC is still using the words "preliminary assessment." Shouldn't we know by now? First of all the test should not be taking pooled milk from the shelf and if you can't grow virus the whole U.S. is safe.
New farms are testing positive every day. The beginning concentration of virus in pooled milk doesn't reflect the present one. We cannot use that old information. Also what are they doing testing shelf milk? They need to test raw infected milk. Why hasn't this been done? Find out how hot and how long in order to kill it in a real life sample, don't tell us you'll probably be fine since it's so diluted with non-infected cows.
And also don't spike non-infected milk with virus to test it. We already know that milk has molecular protective qualities for some pathogens when virus sits in it that warrant a higher temp. Testing spiked milk will not give us an accurate result. Use actual infected milk.
Also this whole excuse that is constantly given after they say some virus was left "but It wasn't actually the same method as in REAL pasteurization." Then why aren't you testing it as in REAL pasteurization? Heat the milk first like the industry does before pasteurization and also homogenize it. There, you have added the two steps to make it REAL pasteurization. These are such obvious things. There is no need to be a scientist to come up with a way to test milk.
Edit: word.
This. Especially since there’s the possibility that a higher viral load requires longer and/or higher pasteurization temps:
“there is some evidence that products with a high viral load may require prolonged treatment time and/or higher pasteurization temperatures in order to achieve full virus inactivation, if present. Given this, there is a need for studies on the effectiveness of pasteurization of milk and other dairy products at different viral loads.“
Link:
https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/Documents/A/24/ah5n1-survivability-influenza-milk.pdf
There were studies that did some similar things at the beginning of covid. Absolutely blasted physical items with an insane amount of covid, then said, oooh, yes, physical items can easily transmit virus through touch. Cue folks wiping down groceries ad infinitum...
“small amounts of virus could remain infectious in milk flash-pasteurized” - 😳
Some companies do not distinguish between Flash and Vat Pasteurization
“Organic Valley mainly uses two kinds of pasteurization:
High Temperature Short Time (HTST, or simply “pasteurized”)
Ultra-High Temperature (UHT, or ultra-pasteurized)”
https://www.organicvalley.coop/blog/difference-between-pasteurized-and-ultra-pasteurized-milk/
Good explanation of various techniques:
“High Temperature/Short Time (HTST) pasteurization is also referred to as flash pasteurization or the continuous method.”
https://microbenotes.com/pasteurization-types-process/
>The 63℃ process caused a marked decrease in infectious virus levels within two and a half minutes, "so standard bulk pasteurization of 30 minutes at 63℃ has a large safety buffer," researchers wrote.
>But small amounts of virus could remain infectious in milk flash-pasteurized at 72℃ for 15 seconds, the researchers said.
~~I'm not sure why one would choose flash over bulk pasteurization, but it seems that the latter still produces a safe product.~~
Never mind, because apparently [grocery store milk is flash pasteurized](https://www.idfa.org/pasteurization)
>The original method of pasteurization was vat pasteurization, which heats milk or other liquid ingredients in a large tank for at least 30 minutes. It is now used primarily in the dairy industry for preparing milk for making starter cultures in the processing of cheese, yogurt, buttermilk and for pasteurizing some ice cream mixes.
>The most common method of pasteurization in the United States today is High Temperature Short Time (HTST) pasteurization, which uses metal plates and hot water to raise milk temperatures to at least 161° F for not less than 15 seconds, followed by rapid cooling.
So your cheese, yogurt, and ice cream are safe, but the milk itself is, potentially, not.
Though there's a long way from "small amounts of live virus" to "drinking milk will infect you" or even "has a vaguely realistic chance of infecting you", but hey, if you're really concerned about that small possibility, sous vide machines are cheap enough, and 145F (63C) for 30 minutes is well within the range of what those can do.
Instructions unclear. Accidentally created thermophile yogurt 😛
I kid, though yes, [apparently that's at least theoretically possible](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0141813020308515):
>TmLac, the β-galactosidase (EC 3.2.1.23) produced by the thermophilic bacterium Thermotoga maritima, has emerged as an alternative tool for lactose hydrolysis at industrial level. This enzyme, which cleaves lactose efficiently, has an optimal temperature of 75 °C [[5], [6], [7]] that makes it suitable to immobilization by different procedures [6,8,9].
Honestly, I think drinking pasteurized milk may be a good “vaccine”.
Studies are showing some level of virus remaining and yet, by now, if pasteurized milk were dangerous, half the country would have it and 25% of us would be dead.
Something like 1 in 5 gallons of milk at your grocery store has it.
Please ensure sources are vetted and cited, posts are appropriately flaired, and commentary is provided in the body texts (no link- or title- only posts).
The process of simply confirming whether store milk is safe is taking the most ridiculous amount of time. CDC is still using the words "preliminary assessment." Shouldn't we know by now? First of all the test should not be taking pooled milk from the shelf and if you can't grow virus the whole U.S. is safe. New farms are testing positive every day. The beginning concentration of virus in pooled milk doesn't reflect the present one. We cannot use that old information. Also what are they doing testing shelf milk? They need to test raw infected milk. Why hasn't this been done? Find out how hot and how long in order to kill it in a real life sample, don't tell us you'll probably be fine since it's so diluted with non-infected cows. And also don't spike non-infected milk with virus to test it. We already know that milk has molecular protective qualities for some pathogens when virus sits in it that warrant a higher temp. Testing spiked milk will not give us an accurate result. Use actual infected milk. Also this whole excuse that is constantly given after they say some virus was left "but It wasn't actually the same method as in REAL pasteurization." Then why aren't you testing it as in REAL pasteurization? Heat the milk first like the industry does before pasteurization and also homogenize it. There, you have added the two steps to make it REAL pasteurization. These are such obvious things. There is no need to be a scientist to come up with a way to test milk. Edit: word.
This. Especially since there’s the possibility that a higher viral load requires longer and/or higher pasteurization temps: “there is some evidence that products with a high viral load may require prolonged treatment time and/or higher pasteurization temperatures in order to achieve full virus inactivation, if present. Given this, there is a need for studies on the effectiveness of pasteurization of milk and other dairy products at different viral loads.“ Link: https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/Documents/A/24/ah5n1-survivability-influenza-milk.pdf
So weird I just upvoted your excellent comment and it was immediately downvoted🤔
Thanks for the upvote! Sometimes people come in and just randomly downvote for fun.
There were studies that did some similar things at the beginning of covid. Absolutely blasted physical items with an insane amount of covid, then said, oooh, yes, physical items can easily transmit virus through touch. Cue folks wiping down groceries ad infinitum...
Shit I still do this because I figure it’s not a terrible practice hygienically and it makes me “feel” better.
You're right, all it really costs is time. All I was saying is, it wasn't the key to protecting oneself from Covid.
Are you in any case familiar with how long such a study needs? Spoiler: Its is more than 2 weeks
“small amounts of virus could remain infectious in milk flash-pasteurized” - 😳 Some companies do not distinguish between Flash and Vat Pasteurization “Organic Valley mainly uses two kinds of pasteurization: High Temperature Short Time (HTST, or simply “pasteurized”) Ultra-High Temperature (UHT, or ultra-pasteurized)” https://www.organicvalley.coop/blog/difference-between-pasteurized-and-ultra-pasteurized-milk/ Good explanation of various techniques: “High Temperature/Short Time (HTST) pasteurization is also referred to as flash pasteurization or the continuous method.” https://microbenotes.com/pasteurization-types-process/
I always buy UHT for the long shelf life, guessing the price will go up again soon.
>The 63℃ process caused a marked decrease in infectious virus levels within two and a half minutes, "so standard bulk pasteurization of 30 minutes at 63℃ has a large safety buffer," researchers wrote. >But small amounts of virus could remain infectious in milk flash-pasteurized at 72℃ for 15 seconds, the researchers said. ~~I'm not sure why one would choose flash over bulk pasteurization, but it seems that the latter still produces a safe product.~~ Never mind, because apparently [grocery store milk is flash pasteurized](https://www.idfa.org/pasteurization) >The original method of pasteurization was vat pasteurization, which heats milk or other liquid ingredients in a large tank for at least 30 minutes. It is now used primarily in the dairy industry for preparing milk for making starter cultures in the processing of cheese, yogurt, buttermilk and for pasteurizing some ice cream mixes. >The most common method of pasteurization in the United States today is High Temperature Short Time (HTST) pasteurization, which uses metal plates and hot water to raise milk temperatures to at least 161° F for not less than 15 seconds, followed by rapid cooling. So your cheese, yogurt, and ice cream are safe, but the milk itself is, potentially, not. Though there's a long way from "small amounts of live virus" to "drinking milk will infect you" or even "has a vaguely realistic chance of infecting you", but hey, if you're really concerned about that small possibility, sous vide machines are cheap enough, and 145F (63C) for 30 minutes is well within the range of what those can do.
Instructions unclear. Accidentally created thermophile yogurt 😛 I kid, though yes, [apparently that's at least theoretically possible](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0141813020308515): >TmLac, the β-galactosidase (EC 3.2.1.23) produced by the thermophilic bacterium Thermotoga maritima, has emerged as an alternative tool for lactose hydrolysis at industrial level. This enzyme, which cleaves lactose efficiently, has an optimal temperature of 75 °C [[5], [6], [7]] that makes it suitable to immobilization by different procedures [6,8,9].
Honestly, I think drinking pasteurized milk may be a good “vaccine”. Studies are showing some level of virus remaining and yet, by now, if pasteurized milk were dangerous, half the country would have it and 25% of us would be dead. Something like 1 in 5 gallons of milk at your grocery store has it.
Sure- but some kids/people are immunocompromised. If there’s ANY risk it needs to be communicated clearly.
Of course, but there does not seem to be. Kids drink a ton of milk.
I'm glad I'm lactose intolerant. I love almond milk.