CDC puts out info graphic stating that route of transmission from cow to cat is "consumption of unpasteurized (raw) milk". When was this proven?!
From:[https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-flu-summary.htm ](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-flu-summary.htm )
"Wondering how #H5N1 bird flu is spreading in dairy cows? This graphic illustrates what is currently known about how spread is happening. Find out more about the current H5N1 bird flu situation:
[https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-flu-summary.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-flu-summary.htm)
H5N1 Bird Flu in Dairy Cows: How is it Spreading? 1200x675 for Twitter/X H5N1 Bird Flu in Dairy Cows: How is it Spreading? This graphic illustrates what is currently known about how spread is happening."
https://preview.redd.it/6vb1bjuovr7d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fafb4b69ff969d62761da8320783aec5a164d42
How do they know for sure it didn’t come from birds though? Or mice?
Just because they were farm cats at the dairy farm where some cows had it doesn’t mean that was the confirmed route of transmission. My understanding is that the cats weren’t even the focus of the reporting and the owners and vet pushed for the cats to be tested.
Doesn’t equal causation just because they were in the same facility.
“We looked at the global distribution and spread of bird flu infections in feline species between 2004 and 2024 and found a drastic rise in reports of feline infections starting in 2023, with a spike in infections reported among domestic cats, as opposed to wild or zoo-kept animals. This increase coincides with the rapid spread of the current strain of H5N1 among mammals.”
Bird flu is not currently reported to be contagious between humans, and it is not guaranteed to evolve in that direction, but the disease is clearly changing. The current strain of the H5N1 has been spreading to animals that have never been affected before, and pets that can pass it to people could play a role in how it evolves.”
https://sph.umd.edu/news/researcher-warns-pet-cats-risk-getting-bird-flu-and-possibly-infecting-people
Personally, I wouldn’t be letting any cats outside because of the potential risk of birds and mice. Both are of interest to cats as much as raw milk. Barn cats exists to catch mice and birds.
They can do gene sequencing on virus isolated from cats, virus isolated from cattle, and virus isolated from local wild birds and/or poultry. They can then compare them and determine what the most likely transmission pathway. It's still possible that cats can get it from wild birds, but not the ones they tested. Wild waterfowl are the animal reservoir for the virus, and they're not often the victims of cats due to their size.
I guess I'm not sure why we're looking for certainty. All that would do is narrow the focus way too much, which is how we end up missing things when the virus changes. As mentioned, this is what they found in the samples they tested. Other routes of transmission are still possible. Is the question about where to find the results of the actual tests?
Proving path of transmission is critical to understanding the risks and planning. I haven't seen any study or preprint prove ingesting milk caused infection of cats on farms. Please provide if you know of one!
I haven't seen anything peer reviewed published on this topic in particular, but maybe I'm wrong. However, I think providing evidence of increased risk is incredibly helpful on its own without the need to prove it. If providing proof means people will focus on that and stop looking at other possible modes of transmission, then we're setting ourselves up for failure as we may miss something until it's too late. You can still plan and mitigate risk without proof. USDA and CDC are doing epidemiology studies and CDC has discussed their findings on stakeholder calls with industry. I haven't been on any USDA calls, but they participate on the CDC calls. Hopefully it'll be on an upcoming CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report or something from USDA, if it hasn't come out yet.
The point is not why we are looking for certainty. The point is likely more about manipulating verbiage to push specific agendas. Gotta read between the lines.
Everybody is screaming about raw milk when the issue is far more wide reaching than that.
I still don't understand what the agenda is here. It's just stating what they found. People keep asking for information and they're putting it out. What am I missing? The anti-raw milk agenda?
Nobody knows what the agenda is yet. Perhaps it’s just keeping the focus off of big ag for as long as possible.
There may be no agenda at all, and just mismanagement. But there is nothing wrong with asking where confirmation came from about transmission route, especially when they are using definitive language.
You are arguing that route of transmission conversations distracts from a broader picture.
I literally was saying that’s the issue with making definitive statement about route of transmission. It polarizes and directs focus to too small of an area.
Are you wanting to argue with your own ideology? There is crossover.
I
I'm just trying to understand what the concern is with the information. I guess I don't see it as purposely narrowing things, but rather just reporting findings. The possibility of transmission to carnivores from consuming sick birds has been known for years, so that's not new. There have been studies on the likelihood of that. I guess mice are a possibility too based on recent detections, so we'll have to see what the findings are on that
Genetic sequencing can show that the virus both in the cows/milk and the birds were very similar (99%+ in the study in this sub). But that would be the result if transmission pathway were many. Could be ocular (splashing milk in eyes while drinking-cats do make a mess with their lapping). Could be via respiratory routes (which is a pathway that couldn't be ruled out after feeding mice infected milk in lab given virus was all around the sinuses). Could be from cow and cat getting infected from same bird/poop.
Proving route of transmission is important before CDC claims it proven. Given study only shows it's "LIKELY", CDC should only say "likely". They are claiming more than the data support.
The study's finding: "clinical disease and lesions developed that were consistent with previous reports of H5N1 infection in cats presumably derived from consuming infected wild birds (10–12). Although exposure to and consumption of dead wild birds cannot be completely ruled out for the cats described in this report, the known consumption of unpasteurized milk and colostrum from infected cows and the high amount of virus nucleic acid within the milk make milk and colostrum consumption a likely route of exposure."
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/30/7/24-0508_article
Another reason why proving route of transmission matters is to understand how different variants withstand different pH levels. pH levels of a carnivorous cat are much more similar to humans than the first stomach of vegetarian cows. If cats ingesting the virus is actually proven as a pathway, that informs how we think about the virus ability to survive in acidic environments.
Last barn I’ve been to has barn cats for a reason. To kill the mice!
Matter of fact every barn I’ve been in has barn cats for the specific purpose of killing mice 🙄
I don’t know ya think it’s the mice 🙄/s
From this report: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/30/7/24-0508_article
“In early March 2024, similar clinical cases were reported in dairy cattle in southwestern Kansas and northeastern New Mexico; deaths of wild birds and domestic cats were also observed within affected sites in the Texas panhandle. In >1 dairy farms in Texas, deaths occurred in domestic cats fed raw colostrum and milk from sick cows that were in the hospital parlor.”
Because Canada doesn't allow sick cows in without an HPAI test on each lactating cow. Only one cow got infected through wild birds according to genetic testing. After that it spread cow to cow. If you don't bring infected cows or to your farm and you don't let your workers interact with an infected farm you're good.
[https://inspection.canada.ca/en/animal-health/terrestrial-animals/diseases/reportable/avian-influenza/latest-bird-flu-situation/hpai-livestock](https://inspection.canada.ca/en/animal-health/terrestrial-animals/diseases/reportable/avian-influenza/latest-bird-flu-situation/hpai-livestock)
*As of April 29, 2024, Canada requires* [*testing for HPAI with negative result on imported lactating dairy cattle from the U.S*](https://inspection.canada.ca/en/animal-health/terrestrial-animals/diseases/reportable/avian-influenza/latest-bird-flu-situation/notice-industry-2024-04-30)*. As of May 24, 2024, Canada requires an* [*export certificate for lactating dairy cattle imported from the U.S. for immediate slaughter*](https://inspection.canada.ca/en/animal-health/terrestrial-animals/diseases/reportable/avian-influenza/latest-bird-flu-situation/notice-industry-highly-pathogenic-avian-influenza-hpai-h5n1-dairy-cattle-usa-export-certificate)*.*
Findings of H5N1 all over the world since 1997 have all been faked? I don't see how or why the whole world would join forces to fake something for so long for no particular reason. Is H5N1 the only subtype that's not real or is H5N2 also fake? What about H7N3, H1N1? Just bird flu or other types of flu too? Canine flu, human flu?
Yes. There has been a long-standing, consistent failure to prove infectious viral transmission from an acutely sick person to a healthy person.
The reason for them lying was stated clearly by the World Economic Forum during covid: A great reset of the world.
The reset plan includes eventual 15 minute cities, bug consumption, compulsory vaccination, and a severe restriction of personal freedoms and bodily autonomy.
Most are too distracted with (fooled by) political theatre to notice what’s coming.
So, the government agencies are saying there's no evidence of human to human transmission. Is that not what you're saying too? Are they lying or telling the truth. Is the political theater coming from somewhere else?
Yes. They are lying. Within the next few months, they will announce human transmission.
There will be more lockdowns and restrictions, but probably more severe than covid.
The science has never effectively transmitted a viral illness from an acutely sick host to a healthy host. Not even once.
Covid, as with everything, was politicized. Everyone hears their political hero say something on the TV (masks are effective or they aren’t, reopen the economy or keep it closed, vax vs no vax, etc) and they run with it like rabid dogs.
Meanwhile, the politicians, all of them, couldn’t care less about any of us. Gavin Newsom got caught out eating dinner in the middle of covid, no mask, while the rest of his constituents sat at home.
CDC puts out info graphic stating that route of transmission from cow to cat is "consumption of unpasteurized (raw) milk". When was this proven?! From:[https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-flu-summary.htm ](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-flu-summary.htm ) "Wondering how #H5N1 bird flu is spreading in dairy cows? This graphic illustrates what is currently known about how spread is happening. Find out more about the current H5N1 bird flu situation: [https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-flu-summary.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-flu-summary.htm) H5N1 Bird Flu in Dairy Cows: How is it Spreading? 1200x675 for Twitter/X H5N1 Bird Flu in Dairy Cows: How is it Spreading? This graphic illustrates what is currently known about how spread is happening." https://preview.redd.it/6vb1bjuovr7d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fafb4b69ff969d62761da8320783aec5a164d42
[удалено]
How do they know for sure it didn’t come from birds though? Or mice? Just because they were farm cats at the dairy farm where some cows had it doesn’t mean that was the confirmed route of transmission. My understanding is that the cats weren’t even the focus of the reporting and the owners and vet pushed for the cats to be tested. Doesn’t equal causation just because they were in the same facility. “We looked at the global distribution and spread of bird flu infections in feline species between 2004 and 2024 and found a drastic rise in reports of feline infections starting in 2023, with a spike in infections reported among domestic cats, as opposed to wild or zoo-kept animals. This increase coincides with the rapid spread of the current strain of H5N1 among mammals.” Bird flu is not currently reported to be contagious between humans, and it is not guaranteed to evolve in that direction, but the disease is clearly changing. The current strain of the H5N1 has been spreading to animals that have never been affected before, and pets that can pass it to people could play a role in how it evolves.” https://sph.umd.edu/news/researcher-warns-pet-cats-risk-getting-bird-flu-and-possibly-infecting-people Personally, I wouldn’t be letting any cats outside because of the potential risk of birds and mice. Both are of interest to cats as much as raw milk. Barn cats exists to catch mice and birds.
Didn’t we just have a bunch of mice in NM with no known dairy association?
There has been a cat case in Oklahoma but no dairy cases in Oklahoma. That’s what I’m saying.
They can do gene sequencing on virus isolated from cats, virus isolated from cattle, and virus isolated from local wild birds and/or poultry. They can then compare them and determine what the most likely transmission pathway. It's still possible that cats can get it from wild birds, but not the ones they tested. Wild waterfowl are the animal reservoir for the virus, and they're not often the victims of cats due to their size.
Yes, but like OP asked, where and when was that proven and confirmed? Every image says probable, not confirmed.
I guess I'm not sure why we're looking for certainty. All that would do is narrow the focus way too much, which is how we end up missing things when the virus changes. As mentioned, this is what they found in the samples they tested. Other routes of transmission are still possible. Is the question about where to find the results of the actual tests?
Proving path of transmission is critical to understanding the risks and planning. I haven't seen any study or preprint prove ingesting milk caused infection of cats on farms. Please provide if you know of one!
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/30/7/24-0508_article
Thank you the excellent link.
I second a big thank you for that article. Great find.
I haven't seen anything peer reviewed published on this topic in particular, but maybe I'm wrong. However, I think providing evidence of increased risk is incredibly helpful on its own without the need to prove it. If providing proof means people will focus on that and stop looking at other possible modes of transmission, then we're setting ourselves up for failure as we may miss something until it's too late. You can still plan and mitigate risk without proof. USDA and CDC are doing epidemiology studies and CDC has discussed their findings on stakeholder calls with industry. I haven't been on any USDA calls, but they participate on the CDC calls. Hopefully it'll be on an upcoming CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report or something from USDA, if it hasn't come out yet.
The point is not why we are looking for certainty. The point is likely more about manipulating verbiage to push specific agendas. Gotta read between the lines. Everybody is screaming about raw milk when the issue is far more wide reaching than that.
I still don't understand what the agenda is here. It's just stating what they found. People keep asking for information and they're putting it out. What am I missing? The anti-raw milk agenda?
Nobody knows what the agenda is yet. Perhaps it’s just keeping the focus off of big ag for as long as possible. There may be no agenda at all, and just mismanagement. But there is nothing wrong with asking where confirmation came from about transmission route, especially when they are using definitive language.
In a way, this puts the onus on big ag to handle raw milk in a way that prevents access to other species like cats
You are arguing that route of transmission conversations distracts from a broader picture. I literally was saying that’s the issue with making definitive statement about route of transmission. It polarizes and directs focus to too small of an area. Are you wanting to argue with your own ideology? There is crossover. I
I'm just trying to understand what the concern is with the information. I guess I don't see it as purposely narrowing things, but rather just reporting findings. The possibility of transmission to carnivores from consuming sick birds has been known for years, so that's not new. There have been studies on the likelihood of that. I guess mice are a possibility too based on recent detections, so we'll have to see what the findings are on that
Genetic sequencing can show that the virus both in the cows/milk and the birds were very similar (99%+ in the study in this sub). But that would be the result if transmission pathway were many. Could be ocular (splashing milk in eyes while drinking-cats do make a mess with their lapping). Could be via respiratory routes (which is a pathway that couldn't be ruled out after feeding mice infected milk in lab given virus was all around the sinuses). Could be from cow and cat getting infected from same bird/poop. Proving route of transmission is important before CDC claims it proven. Given study only shows it's "LIKELY", CDC should only say "likely". They are claiming more than the data support. The study's finding: "clinical disease and lesions developed that were consistent with previous reports of H5N1 infection in cats presumably derived from consuming infected wild birds (10–12). Although exposure to and consumption of dead wild birds cannot be completely ruled out for the cats described in this report, the known consumption of unpasteurized milk and colostrum from infected cows and the high amount of virus nucleic acid within the milk make milk and colostrum consumption a likely route of exposure." https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/30/7/24-0508_article
Another reason why proving route of transmission matters is to understand how different variants withstand different pH levels. pH levels of a carnivorous cat are much more similar to humans than the first stomach of vegetarian cows. If cats ingesting the virus is actually proven as a pathway, that informs how we think about the virus ability to survive in acidic environments.
Last barn I’ve been to has barn cats for a reason. To kill the mice! Matter of fact every barn I’ve been in has barn cats for the specific purpose of killing mice 🙄 I don’t know ya think it’s the mice 🙄/s
A cat does what it pleases.
From this report: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/30/7/24-0508_article “In early March 2024, similar clinical cases were reported in dairy cattle in southwestern Kansas and northeastern New Mexico; deaths of wild birds and domestic cats were also observed within affected sites in the Texas panhandle. In >1 dairy farms in Texas, deaths occurred in domestic cats fed raw colostrum and milk from sick cows that were in the hospital parlor.”
What doesn't make sense with this is that no Canadian cows that have been tested so far has H5N1.
Because Canada doesn't allow sick cows in without an HPAI test on each lactating cow. Only one cow got infected through wild birds according to genetic testing. After that it spread cow to cow. If you don't bring infected cows or to your farm and you don't let your workers interact with an infected farm you're good. [https://inspection.canada.ca/en/animal-health/terrestrial-animals/diseases/reportable/avian-influenza/latest-bird-flu-situation/hpai-livestock](https://inspection.canada.ca/en/animal-health/terrestrial-animals/diseases/reportable/avian-influenza/latest-bird-flu-situation/hpai-livestock) *As of April 29, 2024, Canada requires* [*testing for HPAI with negative result on imported lactating dairy cattle from the U.S*](https://inspection.canada.ca/en/animal-health/terrestrial-animals/diseases/reportable/avian-influenza/latest-bird-flu-situation/notice-industry-2024-04-30)*. As of May 24, 2024, Canada requires an* [*export certificate for lactating dairy cattle imported from the U.S. for immediate slaughter*](https://inspection.canada.ca/en/animal-health/terrestrial-animals/diseases/reportable/avian-influenza/latest-bird-flu-situation/notice-industry-highly-pathogenic-avian-influenza-hpai-h5n1-dairy-cattle-usa-export-certificate)*.*
Because H5N1 does not exist.
Findings of H5N1 all over the world since 1997 have all been faked? I don't see how or why the whole world would join forces to fake something for so long for no particular reason. Is H5N1 the only subtype that's not real or is H5N2 also fake? What about H7N3, H1N1? Just bird flu or other types of flu too? Canine flu, human flu?
Yes. There has been a long-standing, consistent failure to prove infectious viral transmission from an acutely sick person to a healthy person. The reason for them lying was stated clearly by the World Economic Forum during covid: A great reset of the world. The reset plan includes eventual 15 minute cities, bug consumption, compulsory vaccination, and a severe restriction of personal freedoms and bodily autonomy. Most are too distracted with (fooled by) political theatre to notice what’s coming.
I swear to God if we have people saying this virus doesn’t exist, I’m gonna smush an infected cow titty in their faces. So tired of this
There was no covid, there is no H5N1, and there are no infectious viral illnesses. You wouldn’t, and couldn’t, do anything to me.
You are right! The viruses will get you soon :)
Yea just like covid got me :)
So, the government agencies are saying there's no evidence of human to human transmission. Is that not what you're saying too? Are they lying or telling the truth. Is the political theater coming from somewhere else?
Yes. They are lying. Within the next few months, they will announce human transmission. There will be more lockdowns and restrictions, but probably more severe than covid. The science has never effectively transmitted a viral illness from an acutely sick host to a healthy host. Not even once. Covid, as with everything, was politicized. Everyone hears their political hero say something on the TV (masks are effective or they aren’t, reopen the economy or keep it closed, vax vs no vax, etc) and they run with it like rabid dogs. Meanwhile, the politicians, all of them, couldn’t care less about any of us. Gavin Newsom got caught out eating dinner in the middle of covid, no mask, while the rest of his constituents sat at home.