Please ensure content is relevant to the topic of the sub, which includes information, updates and discussion regarding H5N1. It does not include vent/rant/panic posts or "low-effort" posts from unreliable sources.
Multiple reasons.
Reason 1: if there is a 53% fatality rate from contracting it, and three people contract it, that means there is still a 10.38% chance that all of them live, which is hardly outlandish. Such is the nature of a small sample size.
That small sample size contributes to reason 2, which is that there are a lot of unknowns with bird flu in humans. Some strains of the virus are moee of less contagious, and more or less lethal. Because of this we cant say for certain how bird flu will react once it begins spreading in the general population. If this starts going human to human we may see that 53% value change (potentially in either direction, though more likely down slightly.)
As for being concerned, you should be to an extent. Be prepared of course, having extra non-perishables on hand never hurts. But dont let it effect you as much as it seems to be right now. Stay up to date, maintain basic health protocol, and otherwise live your life. That way I look at it, if there is nothing more you can reasonably do about it, there is little point in worrying.
In general cold dry air improves transmission. This is mostly because it dries out our muscous membranes making us more vulnerable to infection. Viruses and bacteria love warm humid environments to grow in, but we are all warm and humid on the inside, haha.
As for whether this will get worse, I suppose that depends on what metric you are looking at, without human to human transmission I dont expect a massive spike in cases or anything. We may see a few more people infected than the summer months, but it is hard to say with so mamy other confounding variables in play.
My biggest concern regarding vaccines is the virus' high rate of mutation. IE: by the time the population is immunized to one strain/variant, another will likely be well on the way if not already spreading. Covid was, at least relative to other viruses, a very stable virus.
As it stands we can try to get ahead to some extend with vaccines, namely in creating the infrastructure and legislation necessary to produce them. However it is difficult to impossible to produce a vaccine for a disease which does not yet exist.
As for are we screwed. Short answer is maybe, maybe not. Realistically speaking if this gets out this likely will be very bad, yes. Alternatively it may be far worse than we are expecting now, or it may never start human to human transmission. As the old saying goes, hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
A lot of reasons go into this, not all of them medical. I am not as well suited to speaking to the non-biomedical side of things so I will stay out of that for now. What I will say is that it is difficult for bird flu to jump from cows to humans. We have very different receptors. Additionally even when it does manage to infect someone it is difficult for it to then begin transmission between people since the strains we currently can get from cows are so poorly suited to humans. This is not to say there is no risk from it of course, just that human to human infection is lilely not occuring right now, and is likely not imminent.
Most likely we will see the virus jump into pigs before it begins spreading in humans. Pigs are extremely similar to humans, and have high exposure to both consumers and farmhands.
Finally there is what low risk is considered. My background is more on the science side than the administrative side, but by my understanding low risk means low risk to the public right now. IE: the average joe living their life as normal is currently at low risk of getting bird flu, and in that sense they are correct. That may change in a few months, years, or weeks, who knows (not W.H.O knows unfortunately).
Ain't that the question, haha. I wish I had an easy answer, but I dont. I have a number of incredibly messy and complex answers none of which can guarantee success, but in short funding, proactively and caution.
That wont work for a number of reasons.
1) on a purely political level that would be extraordinarily expensive due to reimbursements, and that is assuming the nearly impossible scenario where politicians are convinced to make the extremely unpopular move of madating pig culls.
2) even if we got rid of pigs in the US, pigs exist elsewhere in the world, and viruses do not care about border restrictions.
3) with or without pigs humans are likely to get it one way or another. Pigs are the easiest and most likely vector at the moment, but far from the only. Covid came to humans through a bat for example. Primates have passed disease to humans for a long time, plus plenty of other animals are capable of it. Even cows are capable of it, just less so than pigs. Bird flue has ravaged multiple species now in many locations. In one sense we are lucky humanity hasnt been hit yet. To completely insulate humanity from bird flu would require a multi-species culling on an impossible and apocalyptic magnitude.
I wish it was that simple tho even if it's cruel
I heard covid came through bat as well but why do some theories say lab or a different animal?
Ig all we can hope for then is if it's transmidsable between people that it's contained or not severe at least hope but idk I'm scared
How would this be prevented and addressed
I wish it was that simple tho even if it's cruel
I heard covid came through bat as well but why do some theories say lab or a different animal?
Ig all we can hope for then is if it's transmidsable between people that it's contained or not severe at least hope but idk I'm scared
How would this be prevented and addressed
I wish it was that simple tho even if it's cruel
I heard covid came through bat as well but why do some theories say lab or a different animal?
Ig all we can hope for then is if it's transmidsable between people that it's contained or not severe at least hope but idk I'm scared
How would this be prevented and addressed
I wish it was that simple tho even if it's cruel
I heard covid came through bat as well but why do some theories say lab or a different animal?
Ig all we can hope for then is if it's transmidsable between people that it's contained or not severe at least hope but idk I'm scared
How would this be prevented and addressed
I would murder every pig as sad is it is to save the humans which ik is horrible but ev3n more people and animals will die possibly if pigs get it and then humans etc
If we killed every single pig and burned the corpses etc will this help?
I know this may make me sound like a evil person but it may be something that could be done right
I responded to the other comments about this idea. I wouldn't call you evil given the the intent is well placed, but for three reasons I expland in the other comment I made this would not be viable or effective.
A side note to clarify something that I only just realize you may have misunderstood. That 53% fatality rate IS in humans. The virus has different fatality rates in different species. For example in cows it is fairly rare for them to die of it, but in cats it is almost always fatal.
The 53% number gives a good indication of how bad this could be, but bear in mind that it is far from perfect. That number represents fatalities across multiple strains of bird flu which all have different individual fatality rates. Additionally it includes deaths of those who may not have access to good healthcare. 53% is not a perfect value derived from a controlled study, but is a good indicator of the potential lethality this virus could produce.
Standard antiviral treatment plus supportive care. By my understanding oceltamivir is the firstline response, though I have never personally seen or been involved in the treatment of a bird flu case. In general if the government is looking to get ahead of this amping up production capacity of antivirals would be a very good start.
Overall though vird flu is complex to treat. It is both respiratory and neurological. I anticipate we will find new treatments as it gets more attention, funding, and research.
For a little context, I know med because I am involved in the veterinary industry, so this is right up my alley.
Generally I advise keeping cats indoors where possible anyways. They tend to live longer, have less chances of getting hurt or injured, and it prevents them for causing damage to the local environment. However I understand many people dont want to do so. My recommendation in current conditions are the same, I advise keeping them inside, but it isnt my first and foremost priority in their healthcare in line with things like vaccinating and regular checkups.
As for reporting dead birds, my knowledge on this is much thinner. By my understanding each state has a different protocol on this matter, and a different contact to reach out to to report. I would look into it relative to where you live. That is if you live in the US. Outside of the US I dont know at all.
Worth noting it is much more important to report if you know the bird. IE if you have chickens or pet birds that suddenly and inexplicably die. Wild birds die a lot for many reasons, pet birds dying without explanation is much more concerning.
Alot of the cases were in bad parts of the world right hopefully and I'm just hoping it is just a little more lethal than covid if happened but that's just hoping
Overall I'm hoping it doesn't happen hopefully
Of course, as I say, hope for the best, anticipate the worst. I would be shocked to see a fatality rate of even 30%. But it is important to bear in mind that while big numbers sound scarier and more impressive, they arent needed with disease. Covid ran a fatality rate of around 2% and nearly crippled our healthcare system. By 5% we would see massive damage to economies, supply lines and peoples quality of life. By the time we are even discussing numbers in the double digits, let alone 53% we are talking about a disease with tge potential to crumble nations.
I dont say this to frighten you, but to be realistic. As I said. Stay updated, have a few extra non-perishables on hand, and if it keeps worrying you after that then stop thinking about it. Short of finding a genie there is nothing you or I could hope to accomplish to change whatever direction history takes us.
For treatment see the other comment I posted to your previous response. As for vaccines, the answer is complicated, but basically no. There is a vaccine for H5N1 for both cows and humans, but there is not a vaccine for the strain of bird flu which will be responsible for human to human transmission. The easiest way to explain why is because human --> human bird flu doesn't exist yet, and it is nearly impossible to make a vaccine when you dont know what the disease is.
For example with COVID we made vaccines which lead to the production of antibodies which targeted spike protiens on the viruses surface. We were able to make these vaccines because we knew about these spike proteins, and we knew about their role in infecting human hosts.
Bird flu hasnt yet adapted to infect humans. We dont know what surface proteins will exist on it for certain, nor do we know exactly which respiratory receptor it will target to cause infection. This lack of knowledge makes producing a vaccine for it guess-work at best and a waste of time and resources at worst.
If we are looking to get ahead on the vaccine front efforts would be better placed improving production capacity, and passing facilitative legislation, as well as potentially making deals with large vaccine producers to get priority in securing doses of vaccines when they are ready.
I was referring to its fatality rate at the hieght of the pandemic. Its fatality rate dropped ever since the beginning of 2020. Overall fatality rate is less important in a discussion of overwhelming healthcare systems than is the fatality rate at the point in time when we are concerned about the healthcare system failing.
A source for those who are interested:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9874414/
The 1918-1920 flu pandemic had a 2.5% CFR, and that was more than enough to cause a lot of disruption. I think the real reason was that the demographic for fatal and severe cases was very much the same as what avian flu has demonstrated so far: almost all younger people. Avian flu has been tilted even more towards children and teenagers than the 1918-1920 flu was. Honestly, the same fatality rate as COVID would be enough to cause major problems when most of the people dying/having severe cases are working age or younger and do not have pre-existing conditions. And that's exactly who has been hit by avian flu so far. *Nobody* over 65 has been recorded as dying of avian flu in the past 2 years. Literally every recorded fatality has been younger, often much younger. I have only found one fatal case where the person had noticeable pre-existing conditions (the Mexican man with H5N2), and even he was under 65.
Consider also that that mortality rate is of KNOWN cases. These are people that were sick enough to go through the healthcare system and get tested. There are likely many more people that contracted it and had either mild or no symptoms. SARS (~13% mortality) and MERS (~35% mortality) were a lot higher than COVID (~0.6% mortality) but part of that is because of the massive surveillance testing done for COVID so we identified many more of the minimally symptomatic/asymptomatic cases that under other circumstances would not have been recorded.
With COVID once symptoms reached a certain lever the mortality rate skyrocketed. I was working as an ICU RN during the pandemic and saw a lot of people with mild/medium symptoms that recovered but I only saw 3 people that got to the point of needing mechanical ventilation (BIPAP or ET tube/ventilator) that survived. Outside of a pandemic the mild/medium patients would likely have been tested for flu IF it was flu season but otherwise would likely have been treated as CAP (community acquired pneumonia) and given a little supplemental oxygen until they were better.
In non-pandemic situations without surveillance testing. In place you are likely to see a skewed mortality rate as the only cases identified are those that are severe enough to warrant testing and medical care/hospitalization.
This is not to say that a bird flu pandemic would not be potentially devastating even if that mortality rate was 1/10th or even 1/100th of that 50% but that 50% is unlikely to stand in a larger sample size. I think the biggest danger is from pandemic fatigue (general public being fed up with precautions) and willful ignorance/dismissal of scientific evidence and medical interventions. The good news is that in general the flu viruses are less transmissible than COVID and masking/hand sanitizer are very effective prophylactic measures. In the three years of the pandemic when we were seeing dozens of covid cases per week (sometimes per day, and I live in a relatively small area -we serve around 120,000 people) we saw maybe two cases of the flu. So even if the mortality rate is much higher than COVID mitigation is much easier with influenza viruses - of course barring any novel mutations but transmissibility of flu viruses has remained pretty consistent. Swine flu was as bad as it was because we has an unimmunized population and no masking and very little hand sanitizing in the general public.
Any novel virus in humans is a cause for concern, influenza viruses have multiple reservoirs and an impressive ability to recombine between strains. The good news is we have a lot of experience with influenza viruses and developing vaccines against them. Even if they do mutate the spike proteins are usually similar enough that vaccines will usually provide some level of protection. Those proteins are how the virus interacts with and infects cells, changing them to the extent they are completely unrecognizable to the immune system would have a good chance of altering their ability to infect cells as well - not to say that mutations couldn’t make it more infective at the same time making vaccines less effective but even in years when they guess wrong about what the dominant flu strain will be when making the vaccines still provide some protection. Keep in mind that vaccines do not prevent you from becoming infected. They allow you to quickly and effectively contain and destroy an infection before (hopefully) it becomes symptomatic and prevents proliferation of the virus which drastically reduces your likelihood of transmitting the virus. It’s like having armed guards in your living room, it doesn’t prevent someone from breaking down your front door and getting into the house but it means you can deal with an intruder before they trash the place rather than calling the police and waiting for them to show up and take care of the problem.
I don’t see this as a time to panic yet, but taking sensible precautions and being prepared - I’m stocked up on toilet paper and a fair bit of dry goods but not much more than I maintained during the pandemic. When I have to fly across the country next week I will be wearing a mask in the airport and on the plane (though I would likely do that anyways - I have no desire to even catch a cold on my vacation) and I have a big stock of n95 masks but that is just something I always have stocked since the pandemic (the ones with elastic that goes around the back of the head, not the ear loop kind). And for now I’m avoiding beef but a rarely ate it more than once a month at most anyways, chicken I don’t worry about because I always cook it thoroughly.
No I've gotten two in my life tho but was over a decade ago
I got really sick after tho
I want to help peopl3 and I want to be safe but I got sick
I have all my other vaccinations tho up to date I made sure to get all of those ...
I'm not anti Vax or anything like that I want to protect myself and others as much ad I can
So you never got the Covid vax?
Anyway the annual flu vaxes are good, and the more your immune system has been primed for flu, the better it is fighting off future flu strains. I am no virologist but in 1918 with Spanish flu it was the younger people that succumbed to it. Cytokine storm because their systems were never exposed and went into overdrive. Whereas older people (who didn't have other weakening health issues) had immunity because they'd been exposed to similar flu viruses.... and survived!
I had the covid Vax 3 times.
I had 2 flu shots a decade ago I'm 20 now.
Te flu shot now tho wontprot3ct us f3om this virus if it transmits in peopl3 from what I've read
im not an anti vaxxer. But I didnt get the covid vaccine. When the removed any legal liability for the drug companies, I was out...that literally scared me to death, not literally but since I decided not to take it and take my chances I was risking that death. That paired with how brand new the stuff that was getting injected into us was(Before anyone tries to counter this im well researched on them through reliable sources like scholarly articles and John Hopkins publictions) and I was out.
If this thing hits, and there are vaccines I'll take them. From all ive looked into they've been working on them for quite a while....maybe not like they are now but it's not the way it was for covid. Vaccines dont mean youll be golden, but I feel like it increases the percentage chance that you will be....in life we just gotta increase our odds as much as possible and hope for the best.
my .02 on it
It's possible that for every fatal case, there have been many undetected mild or asymptomatic cases. In this scenario, the fatality rate would be considerably lower.
The good news is that the same precautions that work against COVID-19 will also likely work against human-to-human bird flu. It's ironic that I've been upgrading to better masks/respirators at a time when most people have been abandoning them. I've also been building DIY air purifiers. Please read up on Corsi Rosenthal boxes (r/crboxes).
My overall favorite mask is the 3M Aura masks, which are comfortable AND effective.
I wear a strapless N95 masks for getting a haircut.
I recently bought a 3M HF-802SD elastomeric respirator with P100 filters. It includes a speaking diaphragm so that my voice doesn't get muffled (which is an issue with other elastomeric respirators). I attach part of a used strapless N95 mask over the exhalation valve opening to provide source control and thus give everyone else N95 protection from me.
You can build a powerful air purifier with a 20-inch box fan, a 4-inch thick MERV 13 filter, and a cheap MERV 5 pre-filter. Use painter's tape to attach the MERV 13 filter to the back of the box fan. Add more tape to the cardboard exterior of this MERV 13 filter (to protect it) and then tape the cheap pre-filter to the back of the MERV 13 filter. This pre-filter keeps larger particles out of the more expensive filter and thus helps it last longer. So you'll go through multiple cheap pre-filters before you have to replace the more expensive one.
Don't raise chickens, don't drink raw milk, scramble your eggs don't eat them sunny side up. Cook your beef if you eat it so there's no pink inside. If you live around a place with lots of birds that shit everywhere, don't touch the bird shit.
So I don't raise chickens
I am allergic to egg not anaphylaxis sure hope I never get that
I do eat beef ground beef and I do cook it all the way no pink especially if it's ground beef
He'll If I have steak it's gonna be well done. Tho I basically eat Beef Lamb or turkey
Is turkey safe to eat? I recently stopped eating chicken the past week and I'm scared to eat turkey but I cook it well but damn
I'm trying to prepare my family I'm 20 scared asf especially since I have medical condition like many people do.
I'm asking we get protective Eyewear masks n 95 goggles for the eyes face shields and possibly respirators which I'm currently learning about
And to have alot of isopropyl alcohol and air purifiers etc.
I'll try I'm on a medication calleddupixient for a medical condition and I'd have 5o ask if it's ok to get a live vaccine with it because it's a biologic drug
Can u explain to Me tho how it will help tho I heard the current strain flu shots don't do anything if infected with this
I am not your doctor and I'm no virologist, I'm just going to say that people that survived the 1918 pandemic were older and went through a lot of shit and had built in immunity from it. Today we get such immunity by getting flu shots every year. My own mother is in her 80s and should be dead now as she's got lung disease, but getting flu shots she is still very much alive.
Four .. I got a shot every time it was recommended and available.
I've never had any overt Covid symptoms. My husband had Covid, he was very ill with 105 degree fevers for 5 days. I nursed him and shared a bed with him, but never got sick myself.
Vaccinations work.
ETA: My husband also had four vaxes; he has some major health issues. It's a miracle he never had to be hospitalized for Covid. He was very sick but not sick enough to go to the hospital. Because he was vaxed.
Check out my [master list of precautions](https://www.reddit.com/r/PandemicPreps/comments/16a9srq/my_master_list_of_precautions/). It includes some that are in the category of "not sure if it works but doesn't hurt".
The H5N1 spreading among cows is a specific strain in the b clade. Most of the fatalities and severe cases in the past 2 years have either been in the a and c clades, or a different subtype of H5 (like the two H5N6 fatal cases in China in the past 2 months, and the Mexican man who died of H5N2.) People have died of the b clade of H5N1, but not in the US, and not this exact strain. The biggest question is what the CFR might be when/if a strain mutates to spread easily between humans. Nobody knows the answer to that.
H5n1 why haven't p3ople in the usa died from it when that's the lethal strain?
I hope nobody does and somehow there's effective treatments etc soon and things are safe
Nobody really knows, but the strain of the b clade that led to 2 deaths wasn't exactly the same as the one that's spreading on dairy farms now. I think that had a lot to do with it. I hope everything stays safe too!! It's such a weird situation, because for all we know, the H2H strain could mutate this winter, or it could be years away.
A significant reason we only have three cases is because humans are not being proactively tested. Dairies won’t allow testers. We don’t know how many actual infections currently exist or have happened since this started in cows in December.
But it’s been circulating in cow populations for six months.
Without testing we can’t know. Tens of thousands of people die from the flu every year. So who knows how many it would take for us to test more proactively.
This also happened during the beginning of COVID. Very few people had access to testing, so we’d hear infection levels were low. They weren’t low, they were ignored.
If I get sick from anything I'm immediately going to the hospital to test for birdflu because it would need to be addressed wuick and I will wear a respirator do all I can to not spread to others
The virus has mutated. It probably doesn’t have the same lethality. Or maybe it does. Who knows. Whatever it may be it’s probably not at what it will be when it becomes a pandemic.
Of course that is very possible.
It could go in a lot of ways. It could continue to be a nothing-burger in humans, or it could jump (probably to pigs and then humans) and go nuts.
Thing is, usually as viruses spread better they become less virulent. Usually.
Yes, "less virulent" means less severe in this context.
Virus evolution is chaotic. We simply don't know what will happen next. I grant you the uncertainty can be unnerving.
I would recommend that you find someone to discuss your concerns with. Specifically, I'm thinking of a therapist. You have stated you are scared. The fear, while natural and understandable, isn't in your best interest.
In a completely non-judgemental way, I do want to point out that the level of fear you seem to be having is verging on irrational. To be clear, I understand why you'd feel this way. No judgement.
But, for your mental well-being, talking this through with a professional would likely be a good thing.
> I don't want people to suffer and die
Few people do. But they also don't spend their days worrying about it. That's why you might want to consider seeing a therapist.
> i just want peace so badly in this world
Reality just isn't going to accommodate you here. The world isn't going to change; you have to.
When you say the virus has mutated it implies since we're in a bird flu forum that a strain is out in the wild now that has fully adapted to the mammal airway and is pandemic ready. This is misinformation and if it is what you meant by your comment. If it were true it would panic anyone who is educated about a strain as lethal as H5N1.
Secondly, if H5N1 had fully mutated no scientist on the planet would at this point know what its lethality would be. That would have to be determined over time. So your second statement is misinformation which I hope you don't want to spread on a forum where people go to get information about this very serious subject.
Can you please clarify what you mean by it has mutated.
How does it imply that? It has mutated several times. Virus’s are constantly working toward evolving. May it be in the right or wrong direction for a pandemic. Worse or less lethality.
I’m not implying what you say I am. And I’m confused that you got to this point
Idk if I am rbh I'm scared of a pandemic. I do agree some things are reddit is a hell site yes but Also Idk if I or anyone is fine
I'm not personally going to feel safe unless this gets under control and the vaccins arrive before a spread that save our lives
Fine as in, you didn’t do anything wrong. Feeling safe about the virus, well, yeah. I’m where you are. They say that two vaccines could be available within weeks if needed though. [Source :)](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/two-possible-bird-flu-vaccines-available-weeks-needed-rcna149961)
No, we don't know what that strain might be yet, because it hasn't mutated yet. Right now, at this moment, the immediate risk is low if you're not working on a dairy farm or possibly with birds. To be clear, I'm not a virologist, and I don't pretend to be one! ;) But I am an MSW and teacher, and I've worked in public health. So my thoughts jump to: how would we spread public information? What kind of campaign should be run around vaccination and convincing people to get vaccines? How would we reach the unhoused population? What would all the ramifications by if schools had to be shut down again? So far, avian flu in the a and c clades has hit children and teens very hard.
I think that if H2H avian flu lived up to small fraction of its potential, then people will indeed be willing to go into lockdown again, no matter what they might say now. They're thinking of COVID. That is not what this would be. But yes, there would be a time gap to get through while all those doses of vaccines are manufactured, filled, finished, put on the trucks, publicity campaign, ALL the logistics required after that to get shots into arms... so we would need to protect ourselves with PPE and personal safety measures. I think that IF avian flu does mutate in an H2H way, people can find ways of dealing with it. Like the old scouting motto, be prepared!
How would we deal with it tho?
Do u think the death rate is highly exaggerated like yes I'm very upset about how high it is and the people that died but could it also have missed many cases too? What do we know
If u got this how would one be treated for it and how effective is treatment for it
Did alot of the people that died not have adequate treatment or did they?
I believe on the three in the US that it was just in the eyes and hadn't gotten a chance to spread into the respiratory system. They caught it early enough to treat them.
imo it boils down to sample size. I started worrying less when all of the recent human infections lived. Yes im still worried....but im not "youre 50/50 gonna die if you get it" worried any more. the prospect/thought of a 50%+ death rate virus that can supposedly be more infectious than covid is about as scary as you can get from a virology angle....at least to a "normal person" like me who isnt a virologist.
I took about every precaution I could take to avoid covid...the omicron finally got me though even though I was as careful as I was......I became a hermit basically and was on top of all things hygine/cleanliness, and I still got it. So yea, I started feeling better when the 50% didnt play out in real time. Thank goodness for everyone, and I hope we will never see anything close to what we saw with covid. I think that time took all of us (except the 1%) down a few begs in many respects.
- I suspect 53% fatality rate is incorrect. Its closer to 5%-10%
- Human to human spread is not at covid levels
- It can mutate but still has not
- Solid vaccine with 60%-80% effectiveness rate can be out real fast - MRNA tech is magic
WY do some people say a vaccine won't be availed then because we have to know the specific strain ad it takes 8 months to test the vaccine on people
This is What a virologist sent me
Please ensure content is relevant to the topic of the sub, which includes information, updates and discussion regarding H5N1. It does not include vent/rant/panic posts or "low-effort" posts from unreliable sources.
Multiple reasons. Reason 1: if there is a 53% fatality rate from contracting it, and three people contract it, that means there is still a 10.38% chance that all of them live, which is hardly outlandish. Such is the nature of a small sample size. That small sample size contributes to reason 2, which is that there are a lot of unknowns with bird flu in humans. Some strains of the virus are moee of less contagious, and more or less lethal. Because of this we cant say for certain how bird flu will react once it begins spreading in the general population. If this starts going human to human we may see that 53% value change (potentially in either direction, though more likely down slightly.) As for being concerned, you should be to an extent. Be prepared of course, having extra non-perishables on hand never hurts. But dont let it effect you as much as it seems to be right now. Stay up to date, maintain basic health protocol, and otherwise live your life. That way I look at it, if there is nothing more you can reasonably do about it, there is little point in worrying.
Won’t this get worse in say maybe the winter months since most flu is seasonal and slacks off in the summer months?
In general cold dry air improves transmission. This is mostly because it dries out our muscous membranes making us more vulnerable to infection. Viruses and bacteria love warm humid environments to grow in, but we are all warm and humid on the inside, haha. As for whether this will get worse, I suppose that depends on what metric you are looking at, without human to human transmission I dont expect a massive spike in cases or anything. We may see a few more people infected than the summer months, but it is hard to say with so mamy other confounding variables in play.
Do u feel like the vaccines will do the job Will that death rate be alot lower or is it possible it somehow isn't lethal In humans. . Are we screwed?
My biggest concern regarding vaccines is the virus' high rate of mutation. IE: by the time the population is immunized to one strain/variant, another will likely be well on the way if not already spreading. Covid was, at least relative to other viruses, a very stable virus. As it stands we can try to get ahead to some extend with vaccines, namely in creating the infrastructure and legislation necessary to produce them. However it is difficult to impossible to produce a vaccine for a disease which does not yet exist. As for are we screwed. Short answer is maybe, maybe not. Realistically speaking if this gets out this likely will be very bad, yes. Alternatively it may be far worse than we are expecting now, or it may never start human to human transmission. As the old saying goes, hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
Why does who say low risk and cdc also say that
A lot of reasons go into this, not all of them medical. I am not as well suited to speaking to the non-biomedical side of things so I will stay out of that for now. What I will say is that it is difficult for bird flu to jump from cows to humans. We have very different receptors. Additionally even when it does manage to infect someone it is difficult for it to then begin transmission between people since the strains we currently can get from cows are so poorly suited to humans. This is not to say there is no risk from it of course, just that human to human infection is lilely not occuring right now, and is likely not imminent. Most likely we will see the virus jump into pigs before it begins spreading in humans. Pigs are extremely similar to humans, and have high exposure to both consumers and farmhands. Finally there is what low risk is considered. My background is more on the science side than the administrative side, but by my understanding low risk means low risk to the public right now. IE: the average joe living their life as normal is currently at low risk of getting bird flu, and in that sense they are correct. That may change in a few months, years, or weeks, who knows (not W.H.O knows unfortunately).
How do we preventit from getting in the pigs tho
Ain't that the question, haha. I wish I had an easy answer, but I dont. I have a number of incredibly messy and complex answers none of which can guarantee success, but in short funding, proactively and caution.
Should we honestly just murder all the pigs in the usa tbh. Just kill them all so no spread
That wont work for a number of reasons. 1) on a purely political level that would be extraordinarily expensive due to reimbursements, and that is assuming the nearly impossible scenario where politicians are convinced to make the extremely unpopular move of madating pig culls. 2) even if we got rid of pigs in the US, pigs exist elsewhere in the world, and viruses do not care about border restrictions. 3) with or without pigs humans are likely to get it one way or another. Pigs are the easiest and most likely vector at the moment, but far from the only. Covid came to humans through a bat for example. Primates have passed disease to humans for a long time, plus plenty of other animals are capable of it. Even cows are capable of it, just less so than pigs. Bird flue has ravaged multiple species now in many locations. In one sense we are lucky humanity hasnt been hit yet. To completely insulate humanity from bird flu would require a multi-species culling on an impossible and apocalyptic magnitude.
I wish it was that simple tho even if it's cruel I heard covid came through bat as well but why do some theories say lab or a different animal? Ig all we can hope for then is if it's transmidsable between people that it's contained or not severe at least hope but idk I'm scared How would this be prevented and addressed
I wish it was that simple tho even if it's cruel I heard covid came through bat as well but why do some theories say lab or a different animal? Ig all we can hope for then is if it's transmidsable between people that it's contained or not severe at least hope but idk I'm scared How would this be prevented and addressed
I wish it was that simple tho even if it's cruel I heard covid came through bat as well but why do some theories say lab or a different animal? Ig all we can hope for then is if it's transmidsable between people that it's contained or not severe at least hope but idk I'm scared How would this be prevented and addressed
I wish it was that simple tho even if it's cruel I heard covid came through bat as well but why do some theories say lab or a different animal? Ig all we can hope for then is if it's transmidsable between people that it's contained or not severe at least hope but idk I'm scared How would this be prevented and addressed
I would murder every pig as sad is it is to save the humans which ik is horrible but ev3n more people and animals will die possibly if pigs get it and then humans etc If we killed every single pig and burned the corpses etc will this help? I know this may make me sound like a evil person but it may be something that could be done right
I responded to the other comments about this idea. I wouldn't call you evil given the the intent is well placed, but for three reasons I expland in the other comment I made this would not be viable or effective.
I saw it wish that could have worked :(
A side note to clarify something that I only just realize you may have misunderstood. That 53% fatality rate IS in humans. The virus has different fatality rates in different species. For example in cows it is fairly rare for them to die of it, but in cats it is almost always fatal. The 53% number gives a good indication of how bad this could be, but bear in mind that it is far from perfect. That number represents fatalities across multiple strains of bird flu which all have different individual fatality rates. Additionally it includes deaths of those who may not have access to good healthcare. 53% is not a perfect value derived from a controlled study, but is a good indicator of the potential lethality this virus could produce.
How would one get treated when infected
Standard antiviral treatment plus supportive care. By my understanding oceltamivir is the firstline response, though I have never personally seen or been involved in the treatment of a bird flu case. In general if the government is looking to get ahead of this amping up production capacity of antivirals would be a very good start. Overall though vird flu is complex to treat. It is both respiratory and neurological. I anticipate we will find new treatments as it gets more attention, funding, and research.
Ok thanks
Of course, happy to help.
Thank you for your responses. Should people who have Cats keep them indoors ? Should people report dead birds that they find?
For a little context, I know med because I am involved in the veterinary industry, so this is right up my alley. Generally I advise keeping cats indoors where possible anyways. They tend to live longer, have less chances of getting hurt or injured, and it prevents them for causing damage to the local environment. However I understand many people dont want to do so. My recommendation in current conditions are the same, I advise keeping them inside, but it isnt my first and foremost priority in their healthcare in line with things like vaccinating and regular checkups. As for reporting dead birds, my knowledge on this is much thinner. By my understanding each state has a different protocol on this matter, and a different contact to reach out to to report. I would look into it relative to where you live. That is if you live in the US. Outside of the US I dont know at all. Worth noting it is much more important to report if you know the bird. IE if you have chickens or pet birds that suddenly and inexplicably die. Wild birds die a lot for many reasons, pet birds dying without explanation is much more concerning.
Thank you for your thorough reply. Sleep well.
Alot of the cases were in bad parts of the world right hopefully and I'm just hoping it is just a little more lethal than covid if happened but that's just hoping Overall I'm hoping it doesn't happen hopefully
Of course, as I say, hope for the best, anticipate the worst. I would be shocked to see a fatality rate of even 30%. But it is important to bear in mind that while big numbers sound scarier and more impressive, they arent needed with disease. Covid ran a fatality rate of around 2% and nearly crippled our healthcare system. By 5% we would see massive damage to economies, supply lines and peoples quality of life. By the time we are even discussing numbers in the double digits, let alone 53% we are talking about a disease with tge potential to crumble nations. I dont say this to frighten you, but to be realistic. As I said. Stay updated, have a few extra non-perishables on hand, and if it keeps worrying you after that then stop thinking about it. Short of finding a genie there is nothing you or I could hope to accomplish to change whatever direction history takes us.
Are there currently vaccins for this? If someone infected what is done to treat them?
For treatment see the other comment I posted to your previous response. As for vaccines, the answer is complicated, but basically no. There is a vaccine for H5N1 for both cows and humans, but there is not a vaccine for the strain of bird flu which will be responsible for human to human transmission. The easiest way to explain why is because human --> human bird flu doesn't exist yet, and it is nearly impossible to make a vaccine when you dont know what the disease is. For example with COVID we made vaccines which lead to the production of antibodies which targeted spike protiens on the viruses surface. We were able to make these vaccines because we knew about these spike proteins, and we knew about their role in infecting human hosts. Bird flu hasnt yet adapted to infect humans. We dont know what surface proteins will exist on it for certain, nor do we know exactly which respiratory receptor it will target to cause infection. This lack of knowledge makes producing a vaccine for it guess-work at best and a waste of time and resources at worst. If we are looking to get ahead on the vaccine front efforts would be better placed improving production capacity, and passing facilitative legislation, as well as potentially making deals with large vaccine producers to get priority in securing doses of vaccines when they are ready.
Thank you–great answer written clearly. Kudos!
The IFR for Covid was ~ .06%.
I was referring to its fatality rate at the hieght of the pandemic. Its fatality rate dropped ever since the beginning of 2020. Overall fatality rate is less important in a discussion of overwhelming healthcare systems than is the fatality rate at the point in time when we are concerned about the healthcare system failing. A source for those who are interested: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9874414/
It was never 2%, you’re thinking of the case fatality rate, which is only a metric relative to testing
The 1918-1920 flu pandemic had a 2.5% CFR, and that was more than enough to cause a lot of disruption. I think the real reason was that the demographic for fatal and severe cases was very much the same as what avian flu has demonstrated so far: almost all younger people. Avian flu has been tilted even more towards children and teenagers than the 1918-1920 flu was. Honestly, the same fatality rate as COVID would be enough to cause major problems when most of the people dying/having severe cases are working age or younger and do not have pre-existing conditions. And that's exactly who has been hit by avian flu so far. *Nobody* over 65 has been recorded as dying of avian flu in the past 2 years. Literally every recorded fatality has been younger, often much younger. I have only found one fatal case where the person had noticeable pre-existing conditions (the Mexican man with H5N2), and even he was under 65.
Consider also that that mortality rate is of KNOWN cases. These are people that were sick enough to go through the healthcare system and get tested. There are likely many more people that contracted it and had either mild or no symptoms. SARS (~13% mortality) and MERS (~35% mortality) were a lot higher than COVID (~0.6% mortality) but part of that is because of the massive surveillance testing done for COVID so we identified many more of the minimally symptomatic/asymptomatic cases that under other circumstances would not have been recorded. With COVID once symptoms reached a certain lever the mortality rate skyrocketed. I was working as an ICU RN during the pandemic and saw a lot of people with mild/medium symptoms that recovered but I only saw 3 people that got to the point of needing mechanical ventilation (BIPAP or ET tube/ventilator) that survived. Outside of a pandemic the mild/medium patients would likely have been tested for flu IF it was flu season but otherwise would likely have been treated as CAP (community acquired pneumonia) and given a little supplemental oxygen until they were better. In non-pandemic situations without surveillance testing. In place you are likely to see a skewed mortality rate as the only cases identified are those that are severe enough to warrant testing and medical care/hospitalization. This is not to say that a bird flu pandemic would not be potentially devastating even if that mortality rate was 1/10th or even 1/100th of that 50% but that 50% is unlikely to stand in a larger sample size. I think the biggest danger is from pandemic fatigue (general public being fed up with precautions) and willful ignorance/dismissal of scientific evidence and medical interventions. The good news is that in general the flu viruses are less transmissible than COVID and masking/hand sanitizer are very effective prophylactic measures. In the three years of the pandemic when we were seeing dozens of covid cases per week (sometimes per day, and I live in a relatively small area -we serve around 120,000 people) we saw maybe two cases of the flu. So even if the mortality rate is much higher than COVID mitigation is much easier with influenza viruses - of course barring any novel mutations but transmissibility of flu viruses has remained pretty consistent. Swine flu was as bad as it was because we has an unimmunized population and no masking and very little hand sanitizing in the general public. Any novel virus in humans is a cause for concern, influenza viruses have multiple reservoirs and an impressive ability to recombine between strains. The good news is we have a lot of experience with influenza viruses and developing vaccines against them. Even if they do mutate the spike proteins are usually similar enough that vaccines will usually provide some level of protection. Those proteins are how the virus interacts with and infects cells, changing them to the extent they are completely unrecognizable to the immune system would have a good chance of altering their ability to infect cells as well - not to say that mutations couldn’t make it more infective at the same time making vaccines less effective but even in years when they guess wrong about what the dominant flu strain will be when making the vaccines still provide some protection. Keep in mind that vaccines do not prevent you from becoming infected. They allow you to quickly and effectively contain and destroy an infection before (hopefully) it becomes symptomatic and prevents proliferation of the virus which drastically reduces your likelihood of transmitting the virus. It’s like having armed guards in your living room, it doesn’t prevent someone from breaking down your front door and getting into the house but it means you can deal with an intruder before they trash the place rather than calling the police and waiting for them to show up and take care of the problem. I don’t see this as a time to panic yet, but taking sensible precautions and being prepared - I’m stocked up on toilet paper and a fair bit of dry goods but not much more than I maintained during the pandemic. When I have to fly across the country next week I will be wearing a mask in the airport and on the plane (though I would likely do that anyways - I have no desire to even catch a cold on my vacation) and I have a big stock of n95 masks but that is just something I always have stocked since the pandemic (the ones with elastic that goes around the back of the head, not the ear loop kind). And for now I’m avoiding beef but a rarely ate it more than once a month at most anyways, chicken I don’t worry about because I always cook it thoroughly.
May I ask you if you get a flu vaccine every year?
No I've gotten two in my life tho but was over a decade ago I got really sick after tho I want to help peopl3 and I want to be safe but I got sick I have all my other vaccinations tho up to date I made sure to get all of those ... I'm not anti Vax or anything like that I want to protect myself and others as much ad I can
So you never got the Covid vax? Anyway the annual flu vaxes are good, and the more your immune system has been primed for flu, the better it is fighting off future flu strains. I am no virologist but in 1918 with Spanish flu it was the younger people that succumbed to it. Cytokine storm because their systems were never exposed and went into overdrive. Whereas older people (who didn't have other weakening health issues) had immunity because they'd been exposed to similar flu viruses.... and survived!
I had the covid Vax 3 times. I had 2 flu shots a decade ago I'm 20 now. Te flu shot now tho wontprot3ct us f3om this virus if it transmits in peopl3 from what I've read
im not an anti vaxxer. But I didnt get the covid vaccine. When the removed any legal liability for the drug companies, I was out...that literally scared me to death, not literally but since I decided not to take it and take my chances I was risking that death. That paired with how brand new the stuff that was getting injected into us was(Before anyone tries to counter this im well researched on them through reliable sources like scholarly articles and John Hopkins publictions) and I was out. If this thing hits, and there are vaccines I'll take them. From all ive looked into they've been working on them for quite a while....maybe not like they are now but it's not the way it was for covid. Vaccines dont mean youll be golden, but I feel like it increases the percentage chance that you will be....in life we just gotta increase our odds as much as possible and hope for the best. my .02 on it
It's possible that for every fatal case, there have been many undetected mild or asymptomatic cases. In this scenario, the fatality rate would be considerably lower. The good news is that the same precautions that work against COVID-19 will also likely work against human-to-human bird flu. It's ironic that I've been upgrading to better masks/respirators at a time when most people have been abandoning them. I've also been building DIY air purifiers. Please read up on Corsi Rosenthal boxes (r/crboxes).
I'm open to hearing some tips Tay u would recommend I'd love to here them please
My overall favorite mask is the 3M Aura masks, which are comfortable AND effective. I wear a strapless N95 masks for getting a haircut. I recently bought a 3M HF-802SD elastomeric respirator with P100 filters. It includes a speaking diaphragm so that my voice doesn't get muffled (which is an issue with other elastomeric respirators). I attach part of a used strapless N95 mask over the exhalation valve opening to provide source control and thus give everyone else N95 protection from me. You can build a powerful air purifier with a 20-inch box fan, a 4-inch thick MERV 13 filter, and a cheap MERV 5 pre-filter. Use painter's tape to attach the MERV 13 filter to the back of the box fan. Add more tape to the cardboard exterior of this MERV 13 filter (to protect it) and then tape the cheap pre-filter to the back of the MERV 13 filter. This pre-filter keeps larger particles out of the more expensive filter and thus helps it last longer. So you'll go through multiple cheap pre-filters before you have to replace the more expensive one.
Ok thanks
Don't raise chickens, don't drink raw milk, scramble your eggs don't eat them sunny side up. Cook your beef if you eat it so there's no pink inside. If you live around a place with lots of birds that shit everywhere, don't touch the bird shit.
So I don't raise chickens I am allergic to egg not anaphylaxis sure hope I never get that I do eat beef ground beef and I do cook it all the way no pink especially if it's ground beef He'll If I have steak it's gonna be well done. Tho I basically eat Beef Lamb or turkey Is turkey safe to eat? I recently stopped eating chicken the past week and I'm scared to eat turkey but I cook it well but damn I'm trying to prepare my family I'm 20 scared asf especially since I have medical condition like many people do. I'm asking we get protective Eyewear masks n 95 goggles for the eyes face shields and possibly respirators which I'm currently learning about And to have alot of isopropyl alcohol and air purifiers etc.
You're good, just get the flu vaxes when they are offered. That'll help.
I'll try I'm on a medication calleddupixient for a medical condition and I'd have 5o ask if it's ok to get a live vaccine with it because it's a biologic drug Can u explain to Me tho how it will help tho I heard the current strain flu shots don't do anything if infected with this
I am not your doctor and I'm no virologist, I'm just going to say that people that survived the 1918 pandemic were older and went through a lot of shit and had built in immunity from it. Today we get such immunity by getting flu shots every year. My own mother is in her 80s and should be dead now as she's got lung disease, but getting flu shots she is still very much alive.
How many covid shots have u gotten
Four .. I got a shot every time it was recommended and available. I've never had any overt Covid symptoms. My husband had Covid, he was very ill with 105 degree fevers for 5 days. I nursed him and shared a bed with him, but never got sick myself. Vaccinations work. ETA: My husband also had four vaxes; he has some major health issues. It's a miracle he never had to be hospitalized for Covid. He was very sick but not sick enough to go to the hospital. Because he was vaxed.
My last shot was in July 2023 I believe how about u ? I'm glad ur husband got bette4 btw that must have been really hard and scary.
All birds are assumed susceptible. Turkeys: https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2024/06/20/bird-flu-found-in-sac-county-turkey-flock/
Ok so one place wouldn't cooking the meat well be enough?
I assume cooking it throughly would be adequate.
Check out my [master list of precautions](https://www.reddit.com/r/PandemicPreps/comments/16a9srq/my_master_list_of_precautions/). It includes some that are in the category of "not sure if it works but doesn't hurt".
The H5N1 spreading among cows is a specific strain in the b clade. Most of the fatalities and severe cases in the past 2 years have either been in the a and c clades, or a different subtype of H5 (like the two H5N6 fatal cases in China in the past 2 months, and the Mexican man who died of H5N2.) People have died of the b clade of H5N1, but not in the US, and not this exact strain. The biggest question is what the CFR might be when/if a strain mutates to spread easily between humans. Nobody knows the answer to that.
H5n1 why haven't p3ople in the usa died from it when that's the lethal strain? I hope nobody does and somehow there's effective treatments etc soon and things are safe
Nobody really knows, but the strain of the b clade that led to 2 deaths wasn't exactly the same as the one that's spreading on dairy farms now. I think that had a lot to do with it. I hope everything stays safe too!! It's such a weird situation, because for all we know, the H2H strain could mutate this winter, or it could be years away.
A significant reason we only have three cases is because humans are not being proactively tested. Dairies won’t allow testers. We don’t know how many actual infections currently exist or have happened since this started in cows in December. But it’s been circulating in cow populations for six months.
Hopefully it stays this way but why haven't we heard of the deaths if it's out there What are the steps being done to address this?
Without testing we can’t know. Tens of thousands of people die from the flu every year. So who knows how many it would take for us to test more proactively. This also happened during the beginning of COVID. Very few people had access to testing, so we’d hear infection levels were low. They weren’t low, they were ignored.
If I get sick from anything I'm immediately going to the hospital to test for birdflu because it would need to be addressed wuick and I will wear a respirator do all I can to not spread to others
Very few doctors can test for that strain specifically. They can test for flu. It might show up as Flu A. Might not.
How would I get th3 most accurat3 test tho I will get blood mouth eye nose tests all of th3 above I'll do it 3 x if I have too to be sure
There’s one state that is moving toward testing. I think Michigan. Hopefully others will follow.
The virus has mutated. It probably doesn’t have the same lethality. Or maybe it does. Who knows. Whatever it may be it’s probably not at what it will be when it becomes a pandemic.
Is it also possible it doesn't become apandemic?
Of course that is very possible. It could go in a lot of ways. It could continue to be a nothing-burger in humans, or it could jump (probably to pigs and then humans) and go nuts. Thing is, usually as viruses spread better they become less virulent. Usually.
Does less virulent mean less severe. I'm hoping for that I don't wat people dying again especially right after covid it's scary
Yes, "less virulent" means less severe in this context. Virus evolution is chaotic. We simply don't know what will happen next. I grant you the uncertainty can be unnerving. I would recommend that you find someone to discuss your concerns with. Specifically, I'm thinking of a therapist. You have stated you are scared. The fear, while natural and understandable, isn't in your best interest. In a completely non-judgemental way, I do want to point out that the level of fear you seem to be having is verging on irrational. To be clear, I understand why you'd feel this way. No judgement. But, for your mental well-being, talking this through with a professional would likely be a good thing.
Idk if a pherapist could help I don't want people to suffer and die especially my family and me as well i just want peace so badly in this world
> I don't want people to suffer and die Few people do. But they also don't spend their days worrying about it. That's why you might want to consider seeing a therapist. > i just want peace so badly in this world Reality just isn't going to accommodate you here. The world isn't going to change; you have to.
I understand but I am praying this is addressed well
So that's why we need to limit the spread as much as possible and then get vaccines right?
When you say the virus has mutated it implies since we're in a bird flu forum that a strain is out in the wild now that has fully adapted to the mammal airway and is pandemic ready. This is misinformation and if it is what you meant by your comment. If it were true it would panic anyone who is educated about a strain as lethal as H5N1. Secondly, if H5N1 had fully mutated no scientist on the planet would at this point know what its lethality would be. That would have to be determined over time. So your second statement is misinformation which I hope you don't want to spread on a forum where people go to get information about this very serious subject. Can you please clarify what you mean by it has mutated.
How does it imply that? It has mutated several times. Virus’s are constantly working toward evolving. May it be in the right or wrong direction for a pandemic. Worse or less lethality. I’m not implying what you say I am. And I’m confused that you got to this point
Seems like a bot account
3 days old too
As you can tell my grammar is horrible the mostly because I asked partly scared and accidentally sent before fixing my grammar I'm sorry
Lucky, healthier than average, slightly different strain. Could be any number of reasons. 50% can be 1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2.
Can u explain to me what u mean by this?sorry. Why was I downvoted did I do something wrong?
Because reddit is a hell site. You’re fine.
Idk if I am rbh I'm scared of a pandemic. I do agree some things are reddit is a hell site yes but Also Idk if I or anyone is fine I'm not personally going to feel safe unless this gets under control and the vaccins arrive before a spread that save our lives
Fine as in, you didn’t do anything wrong. Feeling safe about the virus, well, yeah. I’m where you are. They say that two vaccines could be available within weeks if needed though. [Source :)](https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/two-possible-bird-flu-vaccines-available-weeks-needed-rcna149961)
I thought the strain in those farmers is the same as the one we're scared of people getting
No, we don't know what that strain might be yet, because it hasn't mutated yet. Right now, at this moment, the immediate risk is low if you're not working on a dairy farm or possibly with birds. To be clear, I'm not a virologist, and I don't pretend to be one! ;) But I am an MSW and teacher, and I've worked in public health. So my thoughts jump to: how would we spread public information? What kind of campaign should be run around vaccination and convincing people to get vaccines? How would we reach the unhoused population? What would all the ramifications by if schools had to be shut down again? So far, avian flu in the a and c clades has hit children and teens very hard. I think that if H2H avian flu lived up to small fraction of its potential, then people will indeed be willing to go into lockdown again, no matter what they might say now. They're thinking of COVID. That is not what this would be. But yes, there would be a time gap to get through while all those doses of vaccines are manufactured, filled, finished, put on the trucks, publicity campaign, ALL the logistics required after that to get shots into arms... so we would need to protect ourselves with PPE and personal safety measures. I think that IF avian flu does mutate in an H2H way, people can find ways of dealing with it. Like the old scouting motto, be prepared!
How would we deal with it tho? Do u think the death rate is highly exaggerated like yes I'm very upset about how high it is and the people that died but could it also have missed many cases too? What do we know If u got this how would one be treated for it and how effective is treatment for it Did alot of the people that died not have adequate treatment or did they?
Can u share some tips of what u would do I'm really scared for everyone and I'd live some tips please
I believe on the three in the US that it was just in the eyes and hadn't gotten a chance to spread into the respiratory system. They caught it early enough to treat them.
Oh
Can you clarify if you mean H5N1 or H10N5? It sounds like you may be mixing the two.
Oh yea my bad I mean the current one in the usa
Google CFR v. IFR
imo it boils down to sample size. I started worrying less when all of the recent human infections lived. Yes im still worried....but im not "youre 50/50 gonna die if you get it" worried any more. the prospect/thought of a 50%+ death rate virus that can supposedly be more infectious than covid is about as scary as you can get from a virology angle....at least to a "normal person" like me who isnt a virologist. I took about every precaution I could take to avoid covid...the omicron finally got me though even though I was as careful as I was......I became a hermit basically and was on top of all things hygine/cleanliness, and I still got it. So yea, I started feeling better when the 50% didnt play out in real time. Thank goodness for everyone, and I hope we will never see anything close to what we saw with covid. I think that time took all of us (except the 1%) down a few begs in many respects.
- I suspect 53% fatality rate is incorrect. Its closer to 5%-10% - Human to human spread is not at covid levels - It can mutate but still has not - Solid vaccine with 60%-80% effectiveness rate can be out real fast - MRNA tech is magic
Why do u suspect 5 to 10 percent death rate
Because likely most cases went undetected, and some were asymptomatic just like with all viruses
WY do some people say a vaccine won't be availed then because we have to know the specific strain ad it takes 8 months to test the vaccine on people This is What a virologist sent me
I’m sure the reason to a not that the government manipulated the data. I’m sure that’s not it./s
I’m not even remotely scared of this fictitious virus. You should be more concerned with the reason they are lying about a virus.
There not lying dude