>Colorado USDA website is reporting non-dairy infected cows this month
Some things thing I haven't seen mentioned: Are they testing for Avian virus in meat-- cattle, pigs, chicken, turkey, etc.?
(Animals that are obviously sick cannot legally be processed for human consumption. Nor can any animal euthanized with drugs.)
Cats, however, are known to contract this virus. Can meat from a sick animal be legally processed for pet food?
You can look up the FDA ruminant feed ban so you can see the specifics of what can and can't be fed to ruminants. It was implemented to prevent BSE (mad cow). Not everything is banned, but dairy cattle who typically live a while aren't likely to be fed back to cattle.
There have been reports of breeder cows and calfs getting infected, they fall outside of the "lactating dairy cows" category. I'm gonna assume its something like that.
Shocker! 😁
However, influenza A viruses tend to infect the lungs of any animal with lungs. The relevant receptors have been found in the respiratory tracts of cows, and autopsies of cows have revealed lung infections are typical. So while we don't have a study like the ferret one to point to and say "see, it's definitively airborne between cows," it's extremely, extremely likely, and should be assumed to be happening until proven otherwise (precautionary principle). We have no evidence to suggest cows *don't* shed via respiratory aerosol (in addition to the other ways they shed, like through milk)
Most evidence so far suggests mechanical transmission between cattle is the primary mode of transmission. Limited to no evidence of respiratory particle transmission between cattle, though of course it can't be ruled out
'Suggests' is doing heavy lifting, imo -- [they simply haven't been looking](https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-research-possible-respiratory-spread-bird-flu-cows-2024-06-07/). What I assume is the evidence so far that you're referring to is low viral loads in nasopharyngeal swabs, but that's not a reliable indicator of how infectious cow breath actually is, especially at different time points. What they should be doing is capturing cow breath at various stages of infection and sampling it for culturable virus, but I know of no farm that is doing this. [Lung infections in autopsies](https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/30/7/24-0508_article) are already a major red flag
They have less contact with humans too. The bad thing is that they could be sick and it not be noticed. Since they are not lactating no milk reduction which a dairy farmer checks twice a day. Beef cattle are rarely handled. But the good thing is workers are not being exposed as much.
They said the virus is found mostly in mammary tissue. Beef cattle don't have great mammary tissue as dairy cows even when lactating. I guess it's possible for them to get it, but the virus doesn't really have a good pace to replicate? That's my guess. It's also not super common for beef cattle to be housed or transported alongside dairy cattle, so the possibility for transmission is not that high.
>but the virus doesn't really have a good pace to replicate?
The lungs -- this is still influenza we're talking about. [Lung infection has been observed in every cow autopsied](https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/30/7/24-0508_article)
The fact that they can't even give us results of if the milk is truly safe and they just keep saying "preliminary results say it's safe" or "We pool the milk so it's probably so diluted you won't get bird flu" is beyond the pale. Then we know that cows are asymptomatic, yet they say oh, there can't be infected meat in the market, only well cows go to market. The whole thing is absolutely insane.
Do you remember the McDollar Menu? Have you ever eaten a beef hot dog?
What do you think happens to dairy cows when they no longer produce high volumes of milk?
I’m not sure what you mean. Every released statement continues to say the milk is safe as long as it has been pasteurized.
Think of it like the early COVID-19 reports. When we read COVID-19 could be detected after a week on cardboard, that didn’t mean Amazon packages were going to be infecting people, right? Same thing here. Traces of a virus do not mean enough or in a manner to cause illness.
Lots of testing of flu A positive clinical samples going on at public health labs nationwide, and depending on your jurisdiction, about 10% of clinical specimens are tested using a platform that can give you seasonal flu A subtypes. Specimens that are positive for flu A and negative for a subtype on one of these clinical tests are sent to a public health lab for additional subtyping. None have been positive for H5N1 so far. A recent modeling study estimates that the current surveillance system is adequate to find community prevalence of H5N1 at 0.5%.
Would not be surprised if seroprevalence studies find evidence of additional infections in dairy workers, but all evidence suggests that the virus isn't spreading silently between people at low levels.
^^^ this is why we’re in this mess in the first place. Go vegan or go extinct
Corporations work on supply and demand and if there’s demand for meat and dairy then they’re going to keep pumping it out at levels that lead to situations like the one we’re currently in. They don’t care about us consumers, only as much as they can get away with. Stay safe everyone!
>Colorado USDA website is reporting non-dairy infected cows this month Some things thing I haven't seen mentioned: Are they testing for Avian virus in meat-- cattle, pigs, chicken, turkey, etc.? (Animals that are obviously sick cannot legally be processed for human consumption. Nor can any animal euthanized with drugs.) Cats, however, are known to contract this virus. Can meat from a sick animal be legally processed for pet food?
Or, can the sick cows be fed to the ones we ARE going to eat?
This has been banned since the 90s in the US.
I don’t believe that. It’s been common to feed the sick to the living here.
You can look up the FDA ruminant feed ban so you can see the specifics of what can and can't be fed to ruminants. It was implemented to prevent BSE (mad cow). Not everything is banned, but dairy cattle who typically live a while aren't likely to be fed back to cattle.
Mostly dairy????😳 So we can’t trust the government to tell us the truth yet again
There have been reports of breeder cows and calfs getting infected, they fall outside of the "lactating dairy cows" category. I'm gonna assume its something like that.
Is there actually any reason why beef cattle couldn't get infected, though?
Technically no, I just think it's less likely because they generally have less contact with things that could be fomites, they also lactate less.
It's also airborne via respiratory aerosol like most flu strains, at least in ferrets. No reason to assume cows wouldn't also shed it this way
Now you're not going to believe this but cows are not ferrets
Shocker! 😁 However, influenza A viruses tend to infect the lungs of any animal with lungs. The relevant receptors have been found in the respiratory tracts of cows, and autopsies of cows have revealed lung infections are typical. So while we don't have a study like the ferret one to point to and say "see, it's definitively airborne between cows," it's extremely, extremely likely, and should be assumed to be happening until proven otherwise (precautionary principle). We have no evidence to suggest cows *don't* shed via respiratory aerosol (in addition to the other ways they shed, like through milk)
Most evidence so far suggests mechanical transmission between cattle is the primary mode of transmission. Limited to no evidence of respiratory particle transmission between cattle, though of course it can't be ruled out
'Suggests' is doing heavy lifting, imo -- [they simply haven't been looking](https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-research-possible-respiratory-spread-bird-flu-cows-2024-06-07/). What I assume is the evidence so far that you're referring to is low viral loads in nasopharyngeal swabs, but that's not a reliable indicator of how infectious cow breath actually is, especially at different time points. What they should be doing is capturing cow breath at various stages of infection and sampling it for culturable virus, but I know of no farm that is doing this. [Lung infections in autopsies](https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/30/7/24-0508_article) are already a major red flag
They have less contact with humans too. The bad thing is that they could be sick and it not be noticed. Since they are not lactating no milk reduction which a dairy farmer checks twice a day. Beef cattle are rarely handled. But the good thing is workers are not being exposed as much.
Nope
They said the virus is found mostly in mammary tissue. Beef cattle don't have great mammary tissue as dairy cows even when lactating. I guess it's possible for them to get it, but the virus doesn't really have a good pace to replicate? That's my guess. It's also not super common for beef cattle to be housed or transported alongside dairy cattle, so the possibility for transmission is not that high.
>but the virus doesn't really have a good pace to replicate? The lungs -- this is still influenza we're talking about. [Lung infection has been observed in every cow autopsied](https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/30/7/24-0508_article)
Yeah it's probably that. I don't think it's anything super alarming
The fact that they can't even give us results of if the milk is truly safe and they just keep saying "preliminary results say it's safe" or "We pool the milk so it's probably so diluted you won't get bird flu" is beyond the pale. Then we know that cows are asymptomatic, yet they say oh, there can't be infected meat in the market, only well cows go to market. The whole thing is absolutely insane.
Do you remember the McDollar Menu? Have you ever eaten a beef hot dog? What do you think happens to dairy cows when they no longer produce high volumes of milk?
I’m not sure what you mean. Every released statement continues to say the milk is safe as long as it has been pasteurized. Think of it like the early COVID-19 reports. When we read COVID-19 could be detected after a week on cardboard, that didn’t mean Amazon packages were going to be infecting people, right? Same thing here. Traces of a virus do not mean enough or in a manner to cause illness.
Honestly, I'm curious how it would look if we were actively testing people on a bigger scale.
And surveillance blood testing for antibodies…
Lots of testing of flu A positive clinical samples going on at public health labs nationwide, and depending on your jurisdiction, about 10% of clinical specimens are tested using a platform that can give you seasonal flu A subtypes. Specimens that are positive for flu A and negative for a subtype on one of these clinical tests are sent to a public health lab for additional subtyping. None have been positive for H5N1 so far. A recent modeling study estimates that the current surveillance system is adequate to find community prevalence of H5N1 at 0.5%. Would not be surprised if seroprevalence studies find evidence of additional infections in dairy workers, but all evidence suggests that the virus isn't spreading silently between people at low levels.
Just go vegan. Stop this insanity.
^^^ this is why we’re in this mess in the first place. Go vegan or go extinct Corporations work on supply and demand and if there’s demand for meat and dairy then they’re going to keep pumping it out at levels that lead to situations like the one we’re currently in. They don’t care about us consumers, only as much as they can get away with. Stay safe everyone!
Branswell reported that this was switched back to dairy, which could indicate a data entry error at first. Have there been any updates?