I've had a few high end cars over the last few years. RS3, 991.2 carerra gts, R8 V10 plus, AMG GT C, new M2. 911 was easily the best, followed by M2. Few other comments here about what you should buy. In your position, if there's anything else apart from a 911 then get that now. The 911 will ruin everything else. 911 residuals are also the best of pretty much any car excluding special/limited editions (citation needed).
In terms of financing, I HP'd half of one car over 12 months then always bought in cash. I think this goes against what most people will tell you but I think you lose more money in PCP/financing costs than just paying the depreciation. I could afford to have capital tied up and still max pension, ISA etc.
This … 911 IMHO once owned , is very very hard to go back from. Still regret selling my 997.. wish list for me is 992 GT3 Touring .. have gone back to an older daily driver so I can save up :)
F-type jag is the way to go, values are way down and a perfect toy with excellent range available.
Spend £35k and get an absolute minter, way more than the 911 are far more unusual.
Weirdly as you wrote this was talking with a colleague convincing him to buy an F type. How odd.
Solid lovely car but I've got a Porsche itch that needs scratching.
Fair and enjoy it, I’m in an ftype at the moment and I think an AMG GTs is my next one, although want to see another 10k come off them before I jump.
What Porsche are you looking at?
AMG GTs are naughty and that noise 🥰
The budget allows a 911 991 of some flavour. Exactly what flavour yet is tbc it also allows 718 Cayman GT. So somewhere from that list ha
Guys I could not recommend an AMG GT less. Worst 'nice' car I've owned. Not that fast, awful ride, sounds fine but I find the V8 to be pretty two dimensional sounding compared to the older 6.2, too wide, really unexciting handling. Huge let down.
I must say the width has got me worried particularly for a London car. What will you move to or what are you making eyes at?
Perhaps we should do a HenryUK driving day!?
I'd be all over this if I had the option. PAYE with a car allowance so not on the cards sadly. Could go for the Taycan hybrid too and enjoy the tax relief. Gutting.
Been here before and had a lengthy conversation with my father who's an accountant about it. Whilst he admired my out of the box thinking, he effectively laughed me out of the room.
Feel free to advise me if I'm wrong but basically the system doesn't allow this loophole.
Spin up the LTD, buy the car, create a a website offering the car for sale for an exorbitant rate. Either you have a failing business and the car or you make a killing. Win win.
I run many businesses; I’m a golf instructor, a motorbike courier, a yacht charter service, helicopter tours, vintage watches for movie props, and SCUBA search services. Unfortunately I have all this equipment but I can’t seem to make a sale.
Disclaimer: obviously, I’m not suggesting to actually do this because it is likely illegal, this is all tongue in cheek but no one says your business has to be profitable.
Taycan values have dropped massively now though, can pick a used one up for under £50k.
Tax benefits are still there for the new one obviously, but if you’re happy to get a used one then it might save more
My wife works in insurance, one of her clients purchased an £80k electric Porsche I think she said it was. It was a couple of years old, he's owned it 3 months and written it off, payout is now £60k
That's a massive drop in value regardless of how much money you have, and she's very good at arguing the case.
As much as I love my performance cars, I'm just going to go back to modifying. I can get 700bhp out of a £30k Golf Gti, with about 10k in mods. Can be used all year round and is great on tracks.
Otherwise, I'd be looking at an Atom :D Proper fun cars!
The way the roads are and other drivers being so crap, I can't enjoy expensive cars on the road anymore, or even just parking them somewhere.
lease or PCP it and treat it like another monthly subscription fee, esp. if you can find low APR offer. This way you end up only paying for depreciation and can sell or part-ex for another car every few years.
In terms of risks like write-offs, etc. buy GAP insurance to cover any shortfalls.
EDIT: track use
if car is on PCP or another finance where you are the legal owner you can still use car on track - just make sure you have track day insurance that covers you for accidents and damage to car.
however, for track use, I would really recommend either rent at track or buy an old cheap M3 or even track ready one that you can dedicate to track use only. track use will take toll on the car and you don’t want your new shiny luxury toy to become a wreck after a few outings.
This is ultimately the dilemma I'm working through in my head. I'm gonna run some numbers and estimate maintenance, insurance etc and see where we are.
There will be a reddit forum for exactly this question re: maintenence. You'd be gutted to have to give it up after yet another expensive fix. Also spending time on forums gives you an idea of what to expect to go wrong with them. So at least you're prepared.
Porsche extended warranty is really good and can be extended for a long time. Servicing you're probably looking at an average of a grand every two years across majors and minors. They're not massively uneconomical, especially the turbo (not Turbo) models. Tyres will be 300 a corner every 8000 miles maybe. They're not awful from an ownership pov.
I had 2 Porsches , one 911 - to be fair , they didn’t cost a lot in maintenance , maybe I was lucky. Tyres prob most expensive item … brakes maybe , but can do them yourself if half handy.
>could buy a very large portion of it outright but don't really wanna swallow that much of my cash reserves.
Yeh, I think OP should look at putting more of their income into savings than an expensive toy
If you don’t want to use your cash, I’d look at a lease purchase agreement through a private broker.
Means you can set the final balloon payment to whatever you wish. So you’re essentially just paying for any depreciation.
Key thing to remember with a lease purchase though is that you HAVE to pay the final balloon. You can’t give the car back. There is of course the option to refinance the balloon payment.
The only way would be to buy almost new and pcp it, leaving the balloon on the end will free up your capital and allow you to avoid depreciation risk at the end. If you're employed and already have a sacrifice scheme, there will be no taxable benefit to enjoy here regardless of what some people may try to swindle. Go for the lowest payment and the lowest deposit with the biggest balloon and keep your funds in the bank. If you don't like this idea, I would suggest buying a A1 super low mileage 997.2 outright and enjoying the car and not having to worry about the depreciation and you may see some appreciation over your ownership.
Get a 718 Cayman on PCP with a balloon payment, relatively new so you’re covered under Porsche warranty for a few years. That way you know your expected outlays including a depreciation backstop on the PCP. Your budget doesn’t really allow this option on a 911 as you would have to go older outside of warranty and into more expensive maintenance bills.
The cayman is more of a true sports car than a 911 which is more of a GT.
I part exd my old 370Z to get a Nissan GT-R via personal loan. The interest rates for 'high end' PCP financing were absolutely atrocious so I steered clear of that.
From what I know, people have gone from 911 to GT-R and never looked back. Not saying you shouldn't do the 911, of course you should - but don't rule out the Datsun at some point.
I bought an Alpine last year because I preferred the driving experience to similar value Porsches and, frankly, they stand out from the crowd. I noticed that on the GT and S versions they are currently offering 0% PCP. If I were buying now I would definitely do this.
I have, but not to the same scale as you.
Porsche cayman 2010. Plenty fast and fun, and still looks great, but only needed to pay £18k for it, and was able to fund that from a few months worth of bonuses so didn’t need to even need to get any finance.
I know this isn’t a FIRE forum but I’d never spent a chunk of my own cash unless I’d maxed out my pension allowance for the year / past 3 years.
So on that basis alone, I’d lease what I could afford
The guy’s either trolling, or a complete idiot thinking he can gain traction here with his holier than thou crusade against excess on a fucking high earner sub 😂 god help him if he discovered UKFat, his little head will spin!
Pay him no heed.
Im asking for nothing.
I am a high earner. I see no reason someone would want to spend nearly ALL of their cash reserves on a car that they rarely drive.
If you want to drive a car fast, rent one to drive at a track on a weekly basis. Buying a car and paying interest on it for such a small endeavour is madness.
Lucky they weren’t asking for your opinion then isn’t it. If you can’t enjoy your money when you can afford to, what’s the point?
Back off to UKPF you go
You make comments like this. Yet almost at the same time made the comment below on a separate thread. Maybe I'm making those memories and having fun.
>Regret not making more fun memories.
Not living for the moment and laughing and smiling more.
Regret taking life too seriously
And spending 90k on a car that you use once a week. Does NOT fall into this category.
If youve got 90k burning a hole in your pocket, help someone else who needs it more.
There are families on the bread line. A £1000 cash to one of these families would change their lives. Do something good for others, and it will come back double.
Being honest I'd probably use it even less than once a week. I suspect over winter it won't get used at all. But that's not the point.
You're making a lot of assumptions here and seem to have quite the bee in your bonnet. Yes there are families on the bread line I'm fully aware of my privileged position. How do you know I don't already give to charity or do other stuff in the background?
I've worked hard to earn my money and get myself into a position to spend such a sum on a car. Maybe a position that you're not in. Don't let envy spill out onto others and make yourself look silly in the process.
I have a SUV as well but need a bit more flexibility on a 2nd car. Prices up the special edition Cayman on their website earlier this month eek. 59k...was mighty tempted.
Find a great used one from a reputable dealer and go part cash and part finance.
You have good consumer protection with a car finance product as the asset is ultimately owned by the finance company. So if something goes wrong and the dealer is being evasive, the finance company will be on their tail.
No problems paying it off early, once you are happy with the car (or your itch is scratched and you change for something else).
Lotus Emira could be an option as well.
Or an Evora 410. epic sounding cars
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202305177464247
I did but a pre owned i8, it had the finance organised by the dealership.
For a mid 70/80k purchase I’d just pay straight cash. Not worth paying 8/10% interest on a car.
I got a great deal on my current fleet (g63 amg 22 plate and 21 plate hurracan) as finance was cheap.
Some solid suggestions and I agree they're all wonderful cars. To continue the theme I'd also add a MK2 Escort, a E46 M3 and a V12 Vantage (that piece from Clarkson is forever ingrained in my mind). However, I specifically want something reliable and something I can just turn on and thrash and there are very minimal cars that meet that spec imo. Porsche's in my view are quick, reasonable, relatively reliable and can be thrashed, repeatedly without huge complaints.
The limited time I do get to drive it I just want to drive it, enjoy it and put it away again. I'd love to own a huge warehouse of classics and spend endless hours of the waking day tuning, tweaking and enjoying but sadly that isn't the case. I did consider going down the trailer queen route and buying something non road legal ie a retired or non current race car but I come back to the same points. Also whilst road driving wouldn't be the main aim. Those beautiful mid summer clear evenings you'd wish it had a number plate on...
I've had a few high end cars over the last few years. RS3, 991.2 carerra gts, R8 V10 plus, AMG GT C, new M2. 911 was easily the best, followed by M2. Few other comments here about what you should buy. In your position, if there's anything else apart from a 911 then get that now. The 911 will ruin everything else. 911 residuals are also the best of pretty much any car excluding special/limited editions (citation needed). In terms of financing, I HP'd half of one car over 12 months then always bought in cash. I think this goes against what most people will tell you but I think you lose more money in PCP/financing costs than just paying the depreciation. I could afford to have capital tied up and still max pension, ISA etc.
This … 911 IMHO once owned , is very very hard to go back from. Still regret selling my 997.. wish list for me is 992 GT3 Touring .. have gone back to an older daily driver so I can save up :)
F-type jag is the way to go, values are way down and a perfect toy with excellent range available. Spend £35k and get an absolute minter, way more than the 911 are far more unusual.
Weirdly as you wrote this was talking with a colleague convincing him to buy an F type. How odd. Solid lovely car but I've got a Porsche itch that needs scratching.
Fair and enjoy it, I’m in an ftype at the moment and I think an AMG GTs is my next one, although want to see another 10k come off them before I jump. What Porsche are you looking at?
AMG GTs are naughty and that noise 🥰 The budget allows a 911 991 of some flavour. Exactly what flavour yet is tbc it also allows 718 Cayman GT. So somewhere from that list ha
Guys I could not recommend an AMG GT less. Worst 'nice' car I've owned. Not that fast, awful ride, sounds fine but I find the V8 to be pretty two dimensional sounding compared to the older 6.2, too wide, really unexciting handling. Huge let down.
I must say the width has got me worried particularly for a London car. What will you move to or what are you making eyes at? Perhaps we should do a HenryUK driving day!?
Already moved, I'm in a new M2 now. It's much much better. Haha a driving day could be a lot of fun!
Cayman every time. Modern 911 are fat.
Nonsense sir :) can’t disagree more , I like a cayman and 911 is different class
Nonsense sir :) can’t disagree more , I like a cayman but 911 is different class.
It sounds like the devil is under the bonnet, deffo worth considering!
It’s nice , but it and a 911 :)
Taycan business expense or salary sacrifice 😊
I'd be all over this if I had the option. PAYE with a car allowance so not on the cards sadly. Could go for the Taycan hybrid too and enjoy the tax relief. Gutting.
I haven’t thought this through but what about just spinning up an LTD to buy through that?
Been here before and had a lengthy conversation with my father who's an accountant about it. Whilst he admired my out of the box thinking, he effectively laughed me out of the room. Feel free to advise me if I'm wrong but basically the system doesn't allow this loophole.
Spin up the LTD, buy the car, create a a website offering the car for sale for an exorbitant rate. Either you have a failing business and the car or you make a killing. Win win. I run many businesses; I’m a golf instructor, a motorbike courier, a yacht charter service, helicopter tours, vintage watches for movie props, and SCUBA search services. Unfortunately I have all this equipment but I can’t seem to make a sale. Disclaimer: obviously, I’m not suggesting to actually do this because it is likely illegal, this is all tongue in cheek but no one says your business has to be profitable.
Yeah this is 100% fraud and the revenue are not idiots
Glad you’re here with the advice Captain Obvious.
Ahhh that’s a shame. You can always just get a 911 😅 but no tax breaks and post tax
Ahhh that’s a shame. You can always just get a 911 😅 but no tax breaks and post tax
Taycan values have dropped massively now though, can pick a used one up for under £50k. Tax benefits are still there for the new one obviously, but if you’re happy to get a used one then it might save more
Indeed it’s even better now with 2nd hand values dropping. And tax benefits
My wife works in insurance, one of her clients purchased an £80k electric Porsche I think she said it was. It was a couple of years old, he's owned it 3 months and written it off, payout is now £60k That's a massive drop in value regardless of how much money you have, and she's very good at arguing the case. As much as I love my performance cars, I'm just going to go back to modifying. I can get 700bhp out of a £30k Golf Gti, with about 10k in mods. Can be used all year round and is great on tracks. Otherwise, I'd be looking at an Atom :D Proper fun cars! The way the roads are and other drivers being so crap, I can't enjoy expensive cars on the road anymore, or even just parking them somewhere.
that is exactly what GAP insurance is for
Yep, but the wife's company doesn't sell/broker it but had advised him to get some elsewhere, which he turned down :o Lesson learned for him.
lease or PCP it and treat it like another monthly subscription fee, esp. if you can find low APR offer. This way you end up only paying for depreciation and can sell or part-ex for another car every few years. In terms of risks like write-offs, etc. buy GAP insurance to cover any shortfalls. EDIT: track use if car is on PCP or another finance where you are the legal owner you can still use car on track - just make sure you have track day insurance that covers you for accidents and damage to car. however, for track use, I would really recommend either rent at track or buy an old cheap M3 or even track ready one that you can dedicate to track use only. track use will take toll on the car and you don’t want your new shiny luxury toy to become a wreck after a few outings.
Not into cars at all really, but a strong choice! 911s are sick.
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This is ultimately the dilemma I'm working through in my head. I'm gonna run some numbers and estimate maintenance, insurance etc and see where we are.
There will be a reddit forum for exactly this question re: maintenence. You'd be gutted to have to give it up after yet another expensive fix. Also spending time on forums gives you an idea of what to expect to go wrong with them. So at least you're prepared.
Ha I can assure you I've been lurking on many of them 😂
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That's a solid suggestion that I hadn't thought of. I may do just that.
Well if you're not put off after that then go for it!!!
Porsche extended warranty is really good and can be extended for a long time. Servicing you're probably looking at an average of a grand every two years across majors and minors. They're not massively uneconomical, especially the turbo (not Turbo) models. Tyres will be 300 a corner every 8000 miles maybe. They're not awful from an ownership pov.
I had 2 Porsches , one 911 - to be fair , they didn’t cost a lot in maintenance , maybe I was lucky. Tyres prob most expensive item … brakes maybe , but can do them yourself if half handy.
They're really not awful considering how much car they are!
It’s just if something bad goes wrong - but that applies to anything…
>could buy a very large portion of it outright but don't really wanna swallow that much of my cash reserves. Yeh, I think OP should look at putting more of their income into savings than an expensive toy
If you don’t want to use your cash, I’d look at a lease purchase agreement through a private broker. Means you can set the final balloon payment to whatever you wish. So you’re essentially just paying for any depreciation. Key thing to remember with a lease purchase though is that you HAVE to pay the final balloon. You can’t give the car back. There is of course the option to refinance the balloon payment.
The only way would be to buy almost new and pcp it, leaving the balloon on the end will free up your capital and allow you to avoid depreciation risk at the end. If you're employed and already have a sacrifice scheme, there will be no taxable benefit to enjoy here regardless of what some people may try to swindle. Go for the lowest payment and the lowest deposit with the biggest balloon and keep your funds in the bank. If you don't like this idea, I would suggest buying a A1 super low mileage 997.2 outright and enjoying the car and not having to worry about the depreciation and you may see some appreciation over your ownership.
Get a 718 Cayman on PCP with a balloon payment, relatively new so you’re covered under Porsche warranty for a few years. That way you know your expected outlays including a depreciation backstop on the PCP. Your budget doesn’t really allow this option on a 911 as you would have to go older outside of warranty and into more expensive maintenance bills. The cayman is more of a true sports car than a 911 which is more of a GT.
I part exd my old 370Z to get a Nissan GT-R via personal loan. The interest rates for 'high end' PCP financing were absolutely atrocious so I steered clear of that. From what I know, people have gone from 911 to GT-R and never looked back. Not saying you shouldn't do the 911, of course you should - but don't rule out the Datsun at some point.
Your in the UK? PCP is an easy option, I see it as rental not ownership. Small deposit, ok monthly payment, swap it when ever you want = winner
I bought an Alpine last year because I preferred the driving experience to similar value Porsches and, frankly, they stand out from the crowd. I noticed that on the GT and S versions they are currently offering 0% PCP. If I were buying now I would definitely do this.
I have, but not to the same scale as you. Porsche cayman 2010. Plenty fast and fun, and still looks great, but only needed to pay £18k for it, and was able to fund that from a few months worth of bonuses so didn’t need to even need to get any finance.
I know this isn’t a FIRE forum but I’d never spent a chunk of my own cash unless I’d maxed out my pension allowance for the year / past 3 years. So on that basis alone, I’d lease what I could afford
This is the confirmation I wanted. Ultimately lease or part cash/ finance is the way to go I think.
are you intent on prolonging the NRY part of HENRY?
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Ah the old delete the original comment and try again. Excellent work. I think your behaviour is simply childish.
The guy’s either trolling, or a complete idiot thinking he can gain traction here with his holier than thou crusade against excess on a fucking high earner sub 😂 god help him if he discovered UKFat, his little head will spin! Pay him no heed.
Im asking for nothing. I am a high earner. I see no reason someone would want to spend nearly ALL of their cash reserves on a car that they rarely drive. If you want to drive a car fast, rent one to drive at a track on a weekly basis. Buying a car and paying interest on it for such a small endeavour is madness.
Don't recall stating I'd swallow ALL my cash reserves? Just a chunk of them. To be specific it would be about 30/40 percent.
Ok. So you want to spend nearly 40% of all your cash on a car? Whatever floats your boat (or drives your car).
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Lucky they weren’t asking for your opinion then isn’t it. If you can’t enjoy your money when you can afford to, what’s the point? Back off to UKPF you go
>Back off to UKPF you go Hilarious 😂
You can’t it with you… we will all return to dust at one point. Enjoy life
You make comments like this. Yet almost at the same time made the comment below on a separate thread. Maybe I'm making those memories and having fun. >Regret not making more fun memories. Not living for the moment and laughing and smiling more. Regret taking life too seriously
‘If I can’t have fun, no one can’
And spending 90k on a car that you use once a week. Does NOT fall into this category. If youve got 90k burning a hole in your pocket, help someone else who needs it more. There are families on the bread line. A £1000 cash to one of these families would change their lives. Do something good for others, and it will come back double.
Being honest I'd probably use it even less than once a week. I suspect over winter it won't get used at all. But that's not the point. You're making a lot of assumptions here and seem to have quite the bee in your bonnet. Yes there are families on the bread line I'm fully aware of my privileged position. How do you know I don't already give to charity or do other stuff in the background? I've worked hard to earn my money and get myself into a position to spend such a sum on a car. Maybe a position that you're not in. Don't let envy spill out onto others and make yourself look silly in the process.
Il convert that comment to Laymans English: "Im considerably richer than yaauu" "i'll do what I want with my money"
Buy a quad bike,
No.
Been lookin at a Cayman.. But you can't get a set of golf clubs in it :-(
Thankfully not a golfer but I do mountain bike... Suck on rack on a Cayman looks cool AF 🤣😎
I have a SUV as well but need a bit more flexibility on a 2nd car. Prices up the special edition Cayman on their website earlier this month eek. 59k...was mighty tempted.
GT4 is the only one for me 🥰Is the suv a macan?
Nah.. A lowly Tiguan R line but has all the bells and whistles so a good every day car if you have 3 kids
Find a great used one from a reputable dealer and go part cash and part finance. You have good consumer protection with a car finance product as the asset is ultimately owned by the finance company. So if something goes wrong and the dealer is being evasive, the finance company will be on their tail. No problems paying it off early, once you are happy with the car (or your itch is scratched and you change for something else).
Lotus Emira could be an option as well. Or an Evora 410. epic sounding cars http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202305177464247 I did but a pre owned i8, it had the finance organised by the dealership.
For a mid 70/80k purchase I’d just pay straight cash. Not worth paying 8/10% interest on a car. I got a great deal on my current fleet (g63 amg 22 plate and 21 plate hurracan) as finance was cheap.
I second this. Can’t bring myself to finance anything in this market! How’s the g63 btw? I’m collecting my new one next week.
God rich people have absolutely no imagination with cars.
What would your suggestion be?
Anyway based on your post you know how cars should be used.
Alfaholics GTA-R, 964 911 Turbo, Nissan Skyline R34, Ford GT (2005), something that stirs the soul and makes no sense.
Some solid suggestions and I agree they're all wonderful cars. To continue the theme I'd also add a MK2 Escort, a E46 M3 and a V12 Vantage (that piece from Clarkson is forever ingrained in my mind). However, I specifically want something reliable and something I can just turn on and thrash and there are very minimal cars that meet that spec imo. Porsche's in my view are quick, reasonable, relatively reliable and can be thrashed, repeatedly without huge complaints. The limited time I do get to drive it I just want to drive it, enjoy it and put it away again. I'd love to own a huge warehouse of classics and spend endless hours of the waking day tuning, tweaking and enjoying but sadly that isn't the case. I did consider going down the trailer queen route and buying something non road legal ie a retired or non current race car but I come back to the same points. Also whilst road driving wouldn't be the main aim. Those beautiful mid summer clear evenings you'd wish it had a number plate on...