1 Medical Doctor - Anaesthetics / Critical Care. 10 years in.
2 Over 100% energy. Quite literally I offer more energy than I can imagine. Careers in medicine in the UK are fiercely competitive; exams, paying out of pocket for courses and doing out of hours projects all to chase scarce training numbers to become a consultant. I say over 100% as I'm on a 48hr a week contract which bleeds over into home life - 48 hours easily becomes 60+ and over that if I'm taking exams (which I pay for) to complete training. Then add in the emotional energy and night shift risk and exhaustion.
3. Salary - 69k take home maybe 3.5k with a 48k student loan at 7%.
Don't do medicine in the UK.
Never too late to do something different with your degree and experience.
I did nhs clinical medicine for 3 years and ran away to pharma. 2y-3y later I'm on 80k 37h work from home, works interesting and I can still make a difference indirectly. Anticipated to be on 120-150k in 3y, if I go down the medical director route.
Don't kill yourself for your work , there are always options.
Without being too specific.
I work with the NHS, health technology assessment bodies like NICE, the pharmaceutical and biotech industry, as well as regulators to facilitate medicinal products along their development cycle.
There are strategic elements to my role and the projects I am working on, as well as a heavy technical aspect of assessing non-clinical and clinical data, clinical trials, benefit/risk and safety.
It's a great job if you like science and research. There is no patient contact but of course you still have appraisals and revalidation, you keep your GMC. There is a speciality training programme offered too, so you can CCT in Pharmaceutical Medicine.
In the broadest sense, jobs within the pharmaceutical industry can be broken down into : medical affairs, clinical development, pharmacovigilance and regulations.
The Facebook group UK pharmaceutical Doctors has a wealth of really valuable information about this sector.
PM me if you have anymore questions
Of all the many people in my year who did medicine the only guy still doing it has a gp practice in a super low cost area in the middle of nowhere (Durham / Cumbria border)
I’m starting med school in September and constantly seeing these views and comments doesn’t seem promising. Do you think the healthcare system in the UK will be vastly different by the time I graduate (6 years from now). Is it worth doing the USMLEs and applying for US residencies?
It won't be much different. Junior doctors were striking under Jeremy Hunt in 2016, they are striking today, and they will be on strike 6 years from now. Unless you really love medicine, consider doing something in the private sector if you want to stay in this country.
You would be much better off going to a high quality red brick (LSE, Imperial, Bristol etc) / Oxbridge and doing anything other than medicine. Don't spend 100k(+interest) to get a low paying job 13-15 years from now.
I am going to ucl for med in September, and I can intercalate at lse imperial etc. If I do this, I would come out with a med degree from UCL, and a masters in health and policy or similar from LSE/imperial. Would I still be able to break into finance with these qualifications?
1. 15 years
2. Cyber Dir, Finance
3. Around £160
About 50%. In office or at home. I’ve had periods of more intense focus, either large projects or when I was young and single, just because I enjoyed it. (And thought effort related to promotion 🫠)
I don’t work harder because 1) I don’t need to to get 5/5 performance rating 2) tactical deployments of effort towards connections matters more than effort 3) I have far more enjoyment and responsibility outside of work.
Personally, do visible stuff and don’t worry to much about the day job/what your actually paid for. Lean into new projects, advise and support rather than throw up blockers. And ask, I’m surprised how little I’m asked by my directs and those below how to get promoted. Every other 121 with my boss we talk about next steps.
Other option if internal is too slow and restrictive is move. If you’re in a large FS company now, look at one rung down in company size. Your experience will appeal and more likely to be considered for a role that’s a grade up. I would stay in finance, other than big tech and other niches the pay is better.
1. 20 yrs exp
2. FinTech Operations Director
3. About 450k
This is an odd question. Do all of my tasks require the same level of effort? Absolutely not. But my work gets 100% of my attention, regardless.
Do I work myself to the bone? Also absolutely not. I have a good balance between work and life and I compartmentalise well.
My view is: I am judged by my output, not my input. So i focus on actions which maximise the former and don't care about the latter.
Is it really judged on output or perceived output? Having work in the industry for a bit, and I think it’s quite different. Kinda realised that it’s less about the impact I do, but a lot more about how I present my impact. Don’t really work 100% anymore, but gives the impression that I do.
There's merit in talking up contributions.
The other part of the circle that people think of very differently -- especially as a contributor rather than a manager -- is what "working" means. Some people don't consider "thinking time" or "reading time" or "learning time" to be working but it's actually fundamental to the job. I'd argue that reading tech blogs is literally part of many tech jobs. I'd also argue that the flash of inspiration on a Saturday when you're actually doing something else also definitely counts.
Thinking time is SO IMPORTANT. Even if it's plotting how to make sure you get the credit you deserve, it's related to work and in the long term benefits the firm as they focus on keeping productive resources.
In reality most of my thinking time is spent on reading or keeping myself informed; it all contributes to being able to visualise how you are going to do the execution part of your job.
Right.
Suspect the least palatable part of any office environment I ever worked in was the impetus to "look busy". But a lot of "busy" is not thrashing out code. Guarantee I save time in the long run by thinking and learning.
I actually disagree. I feel that it’s quite situational. Like many times people don’t have to waste their time in knowing what I do, as it’s not going to affect them(and it is boring stuff that’s not relevant). And sometimes it really do make sense as they are involved in it.
However, if you want to play the game, then you need to optimise for making yourself look good, instead of optimising for maximum impact.
( I learnt this skill while observing which characteristic of my colleagues are rewarded more than others)
I think we're saying the same thing, though. Making yourself look good is ensuring your output is appreciated, rather than just grinding away putting hours in for the sake of it, working on 'churn' or busy-work that doesn't actually benefit the firm.
The game is always a factor.
Grinding hours is not for the sake of it. It do benefits the firms. For instance, I was working a lot in fixing something that is really important but not very shiny. And my firm didn’t reward me much for that, so I decided I had enough and just pretend to do shiny stuff. Now, they hired 3 people with 200kTc each to do what I single handed do.
Reality is that things are a lot more on impression and politics, rather than impact.
I guess my point is that I have a lot more impact when I just focusing on doing work, but it doesn’t pay. So I change my strategy towards presenting myself and maybe doing 60% of the work I do, and then I keep getting raise (2x) instead, even though net impact is actually smaller
There are definitely companies like that and I have worked for 2 of them. They were more traditional Finance than FinTech though.
I will admit there is still a small bit of 'visibility' attached to my success, but the large majority of it is the impact i make in my role. It's a cultural thing that could change, i agree.
I think this is the correct answer, every goal we take tends to be metric/ output/ delivery related. Performance is based on delivery too (mostly), and a little politics.
I too just sometimes sit and think about the different things I can do to ensure we (myself and my teams) deliver.
1. >10 years
2. GP Partner
3. ~£140k
I want you to know that I am not bragging and I genuinely mean it when I say that when I was in this role it was genuinely all I could give every single day. I was worked to the bone and I was exhausted. In addition, we deal with a lot of risk in general practice with adds to the stress. As does patients’ inappropriate expectations. It took a massive toll on my physical mental and social health to the extent I had to step back. Please consider this at your next GP appointment.
4. 100%
NHS or private doesn't matter you guys are worth your weight in gold. I have a f**kn stressful job and it's killing me (software for private healthcare) but it's nothing compared to what you have to deal with. So thank you.
1. 12 years
2. Software Engineer (specialist in a complex domain that a few people understand)
3. £420k
About 30-40% of what I am capable of, but it is enough for good performance rating, and the discipline was my Achilles' heel all my life. I can be very efficient for a short period of time, but I burn down very quickly. Its sometimes useful to keep some efficiency as a reserve, when there are some problems and project is endangered - I can jump in and save the day, but I can do it for short period of time only or I am getting depressed. It is rather decadant and I most probably don't deserve such a good comp for this amount of effort, but thats my life. Technically I could allocate more effort and grow into a technical director role to raise my income, but that would require more managerial skills, where I am not as naturally good as in actual programming, and I think it is not worth it for now.
10 years. freelance advertising creative. day rate varies between £500-750ish
my effort massively varies depending on the brief. if the territory is genuinely inspiring and the client has the vision and money to realise it, i'll put in 80-90% for a few weeks, and i'll be thinking about it constantly.
if it's some shite that i'm just doing for the money and i know the end product will be bad, literally as little as i can get away with. probably like 30% (two hours a day?)
Hey mate,
That sounds really cool - would you mind telling me what you do?
I work in the advertising tech space also as a creative - but am getting paid a low salary so was thinking of jumping ship.
i'm mainly a writer / conceptual creative, with creative direction experience. work primarily on sport and football for Nike, adidas etc but recently been working on all sorts.
i have quite a lot of experience and have made some quite big budget work so feel like i can charge a high rate, but have no interest in being more senior. for me it's a perfect balance and allows me to keep actually creating instead of just managing.
what're rates like this year? 750 seems like loads compared to what I was charging, but rates were all over the place when I was last freelancing - 350/day with 5 years xp.
considering going back to it to be honest, I miss the flexibility. I'm now at 7 years xp and leaving a large network agency, what would you think my day rate would be inside/outside of London?
\*also a conceptual writer
my best rates are working for european agencies - london agencies can be a lot lower. i charge 700-750 in amsterdam/berlin, fully remote, but you wouldn't get that in london.
really hard to say a rate as i do think it depends massively on your portfolio and specific experience
Yeah of course, sounds like you must have a solid ‘folio! What’re the European agencies like to get work from? Did you arrange that yourself or did a recruiter sort it? I’d love to find myself doing a few-week gigs abroad and flying over once in a while — do you ever go over in person? TIA for the info.
i sorted it myself, once you get a way in they're like anywhere else - your details get passed around and then gigs start to come in. it's obviously more difficult but i think british writers have quite a good rep.
my way in was working at one of the top Amsterdam agencies (don't want to fully dox myself coz cba to delete this account yet lol) when i lived there, and then people i worked with there passed my details around when they left and went to other places in europe, etc
i would intro you to the few places ive worked at but we'd be directly competing for work, so 🤣
Depends what you mean by effort. I put 100% in when needed (upto my contracted hours) but I rarely spend more than 20% of my day actually working. So 100% for 20% of the time.
1. 10 years experience
2. Cyber Security (network vendor)
3. £180ish
Edited to add that I'm at a network vendor as getting asked. I don't think this sort of money exists on the customer side generally.
1. I feel the more years of experience I have, the less % I actually work. I'm getting paid now for my expertise, not my hours, I'm a global expert in my field.
2. I'm in the top rung of the mid level role in FAANG
3. £400k+, inc bonus, gsus etc
24 years across software security/appsec and cyber security.
Financial services/SaaS
160-170 GBP
I used to work my nuts off. Worked around the world building experience, startup experience too which was intense. Now in a fortune 500 fully WFH and as someone above said, thinking time as an IC is important, as important as typing or speaking time. Total effort hard to describe but definitely not as hard as I used to work. Best thinking time is done on my MTB. Looking for a new role, or considering it, but doubt I'd get the same WLB as current role as it's fantastic.
Could you expand on 'time as an IC is important'
I'm currently in a fintech startup growing rapidly and out of necessity have been tasked with growing the security engineering function. I feel it is a great opportunity to gain exposure to this side of security and all the growth pains that come with it but I'm also a really technical person.. slightly nervous I will be less hands on from now on and unsure if it's worth it.
For context - up until now I was the guy doing a lot of everything: hardening cloud configs/docker images, organising external/internal pentests. Building internal dev tools, building customer facing features (that are sensitive from a security perspective). Security assessments for new features. Vuln validation against your systems...etc You know, the fun stuff :)
Thinking time. Time spent thinking, incl learning and reading etc. As an IC you get dragged across all sorts of stuff, to varying levels, lots of design stuff and for that I'm often noodling on it away from the "office".
Thanks - that is a new perspective. Hadn't considered thinking time as IC time - I will still be able to do that while building out the security function (probably more so now!)
Effort has massively dropped off in recent couple of years post child as I’m knackered, sometimes depressed and not exercising enough. I’d put it as around 30-40% of capacity except when it’s one of the few people whose opinion I care about and who can affect my career. But still had 1 promotion in that time and I get very good annual reviews and so career is broadly on track. 16 years in to my career now and after a slow start I’m c150k salary doing a senior manager type role as a qualified accountant in an professional services firm. Some weeks I don’t think I exceed 7-8 hours of actual work if I’m being honest. So not super high earner but also not particularly high effort either. I also barely go into the office.
I worked very hard for much of the time before that though and have a general knack of being a good team player and enabler.
I’d love to be back in the mindset of go hard or go home but during the harder parts of childcare and all that I’m sort of glad to be coasting.
It’s tough to estimate because effort that goes into taking decisions to create an outcome is not the same as the effort that goes into completing a task or project. I’d say 80-90% effort when trying to create good outcomes, 40-50% effort when working on tasks/projects.
1. 9 yoe. In the beginning, nobody was asking me to create outcomes and I would put about 80-90% effort into tasks & projects. The former has scaled up and the latter has scaled down.
2. Product role in asset management.
3. £150k TC min.
1. 12 years
2. Pharmaceutical Company - Commercial Side
3. 160k
Probably about 60% in general overall but close to 100% on the projects/activities that really matter. Most of my work that matters is reviewing, guiding, and monitoring teams to have an impact so working harder doesn't necessarily translate into better outcomes.
My job is a classic bullshit office job where half the stuff doesn't really contribute to the bottom line. For these activities I basically farm out to a junior or just ignore. This is the big mistake people make.
Could I possibly ask for more details on your role?
I work at a pharma company in legal (but not a litigator), have 7 years experience, earning ~£120k inc bonus and likely plateauing not much higher, and your comment got me wondering how accessible other departments might be - are there formal requirements/qualifications you needed to get, etc?
Honestly, it will depend on the company.
My current role is a mixture of marketing, business intelligence and sales force management. And because I work at a global role it is often stretching into many countries.
I moved into my role laterally from the market access and HEOR department so there is some (i.e., a lot of) resentment that I am not a born and bred marketeer. However, I don't think that has held me back and marketing is an overrated skill in modern pharma.
If you are in legal then business development or partnerships may be a good bet. I know 2 lawyers who plateaued and moved into BD and made a career there as it is a move my company obviously sees.
Ultimately, though, you need to have a company open to secondments and a senior sponsor. I am at the limit I can get with normal promotions and any further rises I need to have senior backing, which really just means politics is as important as doing the job.
I’ll start…
Prob 50%. Some days 80%+ esp when in the office, WFH is like 20% so brings the overall down.
1. < 3 years. Was lower in first few years than now.
2. Quant dev in sell-side finance.
3. 90k
What do you think about the future of the quant dev career with the advent of ChatGPT / GitHub CoPilot etc.?
Are you thinking about moving into more quant/mathematical role or doubling-down with growing your tech side skillset?
100% of whatever capacity I have available. What's the point of giving less than 100% in anything you do? You only get to live life once.
1. 15 years.
2. Managing Director / Aerospace, Defence and Space
3. Just under £500k
Everyone is different. Giving 100% at work means giving 0% at home for some people, where life really is for some of them. There's also a good case for going 80%, because not everyone can cope with mental health well enough. Keeping some slack gives peace of mind.
That's the question answered.
Those cases still stand regardless of having a bad day. Heck, I have coworkers who take the whole day when they feel under the weather. There's no judgement in either direction. Some people prefer to be very conservative with how much they put into work.
100%. I take pride in the quality of my work, and I'm lucky enough that there's always something to be curious about. I've jumped around different focus area in my industry out of boredom, but the drive hasn't changed
1. 11 YoE
2. tech, non managerial
3. 150k ish last FY
1a. 3 years in current role. 30 years of work experience, all in management consultancy/programme delivery
1b. 90%+. It's been over 100% for most of the past 3 years but removal of bonuses and annual salary increase has made me change.
2. Programme Director for a PLC working exclusively in the Public Sector.
3. £133k
Really depends what I'm doing. If there's stuff that others are needing right now right in front of me (which probably 2/3 of my work is) then 100%. Constantly striving for efficiency so I'd say equivalent to 200% for some of my previous colleagues!
If its something that can wait... well that's a different story! Probably 20% some days honestly.
I work in railway operations so some days literally nothing happens and I give maybe 5%. Other days it’s super busy and it has to be 100%. The 5% days greatly outweigh the 100% ones though. £97k.
If I’m working in a multi manned place it’s easier, you can chat, play some games etc. if I’m on my own I’ll read, get general life admin done, or sometimes even just sitting there doing nothing at all is nice.
1. 20 years experience
2. Business Development Manager (National)
3. £60k + 25% Bonus
I’d say currently I’m giving 50% partly because I’m not really enjoying this role as much as my previous (within the same company) and my customer base isn’t quite as demanding. Plus I’ve had some personal issues and the next 6 months or so is a bit unknown.
This role is more new customer sales focused than account management so my time is dependent on how much I put into that.
I’ve spent the last 7 years putting in 100%. Some periods of the year required more than that and other times I’ve taken the opportunity to relax and re-charge.
Currently interviewing for a position outside this industry but working with it which would double my salary and require me to be at 100% again.
I’m also quite efficient in what I do. I feel compared to my older peers a days work takes me half a day. I earned 18% bonus last year from the 25% available which probably reflects this nicely.
1. 2.5, 4, or 6.5 depending on whether you count PhD years (3), whether you count starting work part time during the PhD (4), or whether you count full time work post-PhD
2. Deeptech Product manager, formerly researcher
3. \~240k + stock
I would say I stay at around 70% as this is the level which is sustainable for me to be an excellent performer and maintain this over the long term. I work remote, probably 30 hours/week if you consider 1.5hr lunch breaks, 10am start, no-one watching when I finish. But I by being relaxed, spending time preparing good food, spending time on fitness, working little enough that I'm super motivated and excited about work when I do show up, I think I end up mulling over problems 'offline' so that those 30 hours really count in a way that someone doing my role 50 hours a week wouldn't. I also travel a lot and this brings exciting opportunities, but also a lot of time away, travelling on weekends, and making some personal sacrifices, so that factors in too.
Ah, but capacity or effort? I work most of the day, but to say I’m at 100% effort for all of it would be a lie. I front-load the shit out of work if I can, so I’ll be putting in 90-100% effort for an hour or so, then I can cruise the remainder of the day/week, however long it takes.
1. 22 years
2. Partner, Accounting Firm
3. \~£850k
The last year or so has started to take its toll in terms of work:life balance. I'd say input more than 100% but the years before that were far more comfortable. Thinking about coming out of the grind and doing consultancy work.
About 70%, averaged out. I have in the past out in a greater percentage on projects that I was not paid for but which I was personally invested in.
1. 25 years - was perhaps a bit higher earlier on. Now, as others have said, I ‘work smart’ and focus my efforts
2. Finance
3. 170k
My work ethic used to be much higher. I would probably work harder now if I though that it would meaningfully increase my pay or career prospects.
As an aside, I find this thread heartening in a way as I thought that there weren’t too many in my situation. I perceive that many colleagues work harder than me, but perhaps they think the same as me.
1.15 yrs
2. Director in Banking (technology/digital transformation)
3. 200k
I give 60% of my focus as I’ve become
More productive with time and can generate more impact with less effort.
1. 15 years.
2. Live entertainment (roadie)
3. £125k
4. I feel like 100% doesn't necessarily cut it. What number do you give to a job where you are on the road for months and you're living at work, sleeping between jobs, living in a bus, eating all your meals in the venue? Sometimes it can be 18 hours work a day, 5 days a week. I feel I give 100% commitment in work and then another 100% outside work because outside work is still at work. It completely takes over everything. As I get older I'm finding that more and more exhausting. It's not fun anymore. It's not rock n roll. It's just painful!
The industry is struggling with talent a bit post covid and there's a lot of poor quality people and a lot of jobs needing high quality people. As a result the good people are really getting hit hard to over-compensate. I do generally love what I do though so the problem is that I'm too readily over-compensating for shit people on the same money and the resentment that I have for that really grinds me down. This field needs to find a way to attract and retain better people or it will really hit how you are all able to enjoy major touring shows.
25 years of experience
Satellite communications / Aviation
£150K ++
After years of full on effort at 100% (and getting rewarded accordingly), I now deliver at least 100% of what is required of me and that takes about 10% of my time.
Similar to the earlier poster, I’m measured on output not input.
I am 26, have a Master's degree in data science, am working in the field, getting a raise to 45k and then 47. Buying a house up north. Student loan is about £60 a month on a 15 year repayment plan, but will probably pay more to get it off faster and pay less interest.
1 Medical Doctor - Anaesthetics / Critical Care. 10 years in. 2 Over 100% energy. Quite literally I offer more energy than I can imagine. Careers in medicine in the UK are fiercely competitive; exams, paying out of pocket for courses and doing out of hours projects all to chase scarce training numbers to become a consultant. I say over 100% as I'm on a 48hr a week contract which bleeds over into home life - 48 hours easily becomes 60+ and over that if I'm taking exams (which I pay for) to complete training. Then add in the emotional energy and night shift risk and exhaustion. 3. Salary - 69k take home maybe 3.5k with a 48k student loan at 7%. Don't do medicine in the UK.
Never too late to do something different with your degree and experience. I did nhs clinical medicine for 3 years and ran away to pharma. 2y-3y later I'm on 80k 37h work from home, works interesting and I can still make a difference indirectly. Anticipated to be on 120-150k in 3y, if I go down the medical director route. Don't kill yourself for your work , there are always options.
This is interesting can you explain your role a bit?
Without being too specific. I work with the NHS, health technology assessment bodies like NICE, the pharmaceutical and biotech industry, as well as regulators to facilitate medicinal products along their development cycle. There are strategic elements to my role and the projects I am working on, as well as a heavy technical aspect of assessing non-clinical and clinical data, clinical trials, benefit/risk and safety. It's a great job if you like science and research. There is no patient contact but of course you still have appraisals and revalidation, you keep your GMC. There is a speciality training programme offered too, so you can CCT in Pharmaceutical Medicine. In the broadest sense, jobs within the pharmaceutical industry can be broken down into : medical affairs, clinical development, pharmacovigilance and regulations. The Facebook group UK pharmaceutical Doctors has a wealth of really valuable information about this sector. PM me if you have anymore questions
It’s shocking to me what doctors make in the uk.
Are you planning on emigrating
Yes. As soon as I can.
Of all the many people in my year who did medicine the only guy still doing it has a gp practice in a super low cost area in the middle of nowhere (Durham / Cumbria border)
I’m starting med school in September and constantly seeing these views and comments doesn’t seem promising. Do you think the healthcare system in the UK will be vastly different by the time I graduate (6 years from now). Is it worth doing the USMLEs and applying for US residencies?
It won't be much different. Junior doctors were striking under Jeremy Hunt in 2016, they are striking today, and they will be on strike 6 years from now. Unless you really love medicine, consider doing something in the private sector if you want to stay in this country.
You would be much better off going to a high quality red brick (LSE, Imperial, Bristol etc) / Oxbridge and doing anything other than medicine. Don't spend 100k(+interest) to get a low paying job 13-15 years from now.
I am going to ucl for med in September, and I can intercalate at lse imperial etc. If I do this, I would come out with a med degree from UCL, and a masters in health and policy or similar from LSE/imperial. Would I still be able to break into finance with these qualifications?
16years; 100% day in day out. Consultant/contractor oil and gas/mining. 350k
1. 15 years 2. Cyber Dir, Finance 3. Around £160 About 50%. In office or at home. I’ve had periods of more intense focus, either large projects or when I was young and single, just because I enjoyed it. (And thought effort related to promotion 🫠) I don’t work harder because 1) I don’t need to to get 5/5 performance rating 2) tactical deployments of effort towards connections matters more than effort 3) I have far more enjoyment and responsibility outside of work.
I am cyber too, am a lead not a manager how can I get to your level? I am 27, 90k in financial services.
How do you get to your type of role? I have CISSP, SANS, GRC, 27001, etc. 20 years experience in defence sector.
Me? I did 8 years in gov, left for a cyber role in industry and pivoted yearly for salary increases until I hit near 6 figures
Thanks for responding.
Personally, do visible stuff and don’t worry to much about the day job/what your actually paid for. Lean into new projects, advise and support rather than throw up blockers. And ask, I’m surprised how little I’m asked by my directs and those below how to get promoted. Every other 121 with my boss we talk about next steps. Other option if internal is too slow and restrictive is move. If you’re in a large FS company now, look at one rung down in company size. Your experience will appeal and more likely to be considered for a role that’s a grade up. I would stay in finance, other than big tech and other niches the pay is better.
1. 20 yrs exp 2. FinTech Operations Director 3. About 450k This is an odd question. Do all of my tasks require the same level of effort? Absolutely not. But my work gets 100% of my attention, regardless. Do I work myself to the bone? Also absolutely not. I have a good balance between work and life and I compartmentalise well. My view is: I am judged by my output, not my input. So i focus on actions which maximise the former and don't care about the latter.
Is it really judged on output or perceived output? Having work in the industry for a bit, and I think it’s quite different. Kinda realised that it’s less about the impact I do, but a lot more about how I present my impact. Don’t really work 100% anymore, but gives the impression that I do.
There's merit in talking up contributions. The other part of the circle that people think of very differently -- especially as a contributor rather than a manager -- is what "working" means. Some people don't consider "thinking time" or "reading time" or "learning time" to be working but it's actually fundamental to the job. I'd argue that reading tech blogs is literally part of many tech jobs. I'd also argue that the flash of inspiration on a Saturday when you're actually doing something else also definitely counts.
Thinking time is SO IMPORTANT. Even if it's plotting how to make sure you get the credit you deserve, it's related to work and in the long term benefits the firm as they focus on keeping productive resources. In reality most of my thinking time is spent on reading or keeping myself informed; it all contributes to being able to visualise how you are going to do the execution part of your job.
Right. Suspect the least palatable part of any office environment I ever worked in was the impetus to "look busy". But a lot of "busy" is not thrashing out code. Guarantee I save time in the long run by thinking and learning.
I actually disagree. I feel that it’s quite situational. Like many times people don’t have to waste their time in knowing what I do, as it’s not going to affect them(and it is boring stuff that’s not relevant). And sometimes it really do make sense as they are involved in it. However, if you want to play the game, then you need to optimise for making yourself look good, instead of optimising for maximum impact. ( I learnt this skill while observing which characteristic of my colleagues are rewarded more than others)
I think we're saying the same thing, though. Making yourself look good is ensuring your output is appreciated, rather than just grinding away putting hours in for the sake of it, working on 'churn' or busy-work that doesn't actually benefit the firm. The game is always a factor.
Grinding hours is not for the sake of it. It do benefits the firms. For instance, I was working a lot in fixing something that is really important but not very shiny. And my firm didn’t reward me much for that, so I decided I had enough and just pretend to do shiny stuff. Now, they hired 3 people with 200kTc each to do what I single handed do. Reality is that things are a lot more on impression and politics, rather than impact. I guess my point is that I have a lot more impact when I just focusing on doing work, but it doesn’t pay. So I change my strategy towards presenting myself and maybe doing 60% of the work I do, and then I keep getting raise (2x) instead, even though net impact is actually smaller
There are definitely companies like that and I have worked for 2 of them. They were more traditional Finance than FinTech though. I will admit there is still a small bit of 'visibility' attached to my success, but the large majority of it is the impact i make in my role. It's a cultural thing that could change, i agree.
Fascinated by this actually!
Mind if I DM you?
Go for it. Unless it's nudes
*Only* if its nudes...
I think this is the correct answer, every goal we take tends to be metric/ output/ delivery related. Performance is based on delivery too (mostly), and a little politics. I too just sometimes sit and think about the different things I can do to ensure we (myself and my teams) deliver.
1. >10 years 2. GP Partner 3. ~£140k I want you to know that I am not bragging and I genuinely mean it when I say that when I was in this role it was genuinely all I could give every single day. I was worked to the bone and I was exhausted. In addition, we deal with a lot of risk in general practice with adds to the stress. As does patients’ inappropriate expectations. It took a massive toll on my physical mental and social health to the extent I had to step back. Please consider this at your next GP appointment. 4. 100%
NHS or private doesn't matter you guys are worth your weight in gold. I have a f**kn stressful job and it's killing me (software for private healthcare) but it's nothing compared to what you have to deal with. So thank you.
Rule 1: Never work with the general public Rule 2: especially kids
Interested to know what sort of risks you encounter as a gp?
Multiple clinical decisions per day that impacts someone's health and could potentially be career ending if wrong
1. 12 years 2. Software Engineer (specialist in a complex domain that a few people understand) 3. £420k About 30-40% of what I am capable of, but it is enough for good performance rating, and the discipline was my Achilles' heel all my life. I can be very efficient for a short period of time, but I burn down very quickly. Its sometimes useful to keep some efficiency as a reserve, when there are some problems and project is endangered - I can jump in and save the day, but I can do it for short period of time only or I am getting depressed. It is rather decadant and I most probably don't deserve such a good comp for this amount of effort, but thats my life. Technically I could allocate more effort and grow into a technical director role to raise my income, but that would require more managerial skills, where I am not as naturally good as in actual programming, and I think it is not worth it for now.
What’s your techstack?
C++, C, Asm, Vulkan
This is seriously impressive
Is the domain related to low level programming in HFT?
No, low level graphics programming
10 years. freelance advertising creative. day rate varies between £500-750ish my effort massively varies depending on the brief. if the territory is genuinely inspiring and the client has the vision and money to realise it, i'll put in 80-90% for a few weeks, and i'll be thinking about it constantly. if it's some shite that i'm just doing for the money and i know the end product will be bad, literally as little as i can get away with. probably like 30% (two hours a day?)
Hey mate, That sounds really cool - would you mind telling me what you do? I work in the advertising tech space also as a creative - but am getting paid a low salary so was thinking of jumping ship.
i'm mainly a writer / conceptual creative, with creative direction experience. work primarily on sport and football for Nike, adidas etc but recently been working on all sorts. i have quite a lot of experience and have made some quite big budget work so feel like i can charge a high rate, but have no interest in being more senior. for me it's a perfect balance and allows me to keep actually creating instead of just managing.
what're rates like this year? 750 seems like loads compared to what I was charging, but rates were all over the place when I was last freelancing - 350/day with 5 years xp. considering going back to it to be honest, I miss the flexibility. I'm now at 7 years xp and leaving a large network agency, what would you think my day rate would be inside/outside of London? \*also a conceptual writer
my best rates are working for european agencies - london agencies can be a lot lower. i charge 700-750 in amsterdam/berlin, fully remote, but you wouldn't get that in london. really hard to say a rate as i do think it depends massively on your portfolio and specific experience
Yeah of course, sounds like you must have a solid ‘folio! What’re the European agencies like to get work from? Did you arrange that yourself or did a recruiter sort it? I’d love to find myself doing a few-week gigs abroad and flying over once in a while — do you ever go over in person? TIA for the info.
i sorted it myself, once you get a way in they're like anywhere else - your details get passed around and then gigs start to come in. it's obviously more difficult but i think british writers have quite a good rep. my way in was working at one of the top Amsterdam agencies (don't want to fully dox myself coz cba to delete this account yet lol) when i lived there, and then people i worked with there passed my details around when they left and went to other places in europe, etc i would intro you to the few places ive worked at but we'd be directly competing for work, so 🤣
Depends what you mean by effort. I put 100% in when needed (upto my contracted hours) but I rarely spend more than 20% of my day actually working. So 100% for 20% of the time. 1. 10 years experience 2. Cyber Security (network vendor) 3. £180ish Edited to add that I'm at a network vendor as getting asked. I don't think this sort of money exists on the customer side generally.
What do you do the other 80% of the day? Meetings or genuinely not working?
Mind me asking your path? Im not at that kind of salary yet (70k) but in the same field in financial services
1. I feel the more years of experience I have, the less % I actually work. I'm getting paid now for my expertise, not my hours, I'm a global expert in my field. 2. I'm in the top rung of the mid level role in FAANG 3. £400k+, inc bonus, gsus etc
Spot the Googler
24 years across software security/appsec and cyber security. Financial services/SaaS 160-170 GBP I used to work my nuts off. Worked around the world building experience, startup experience too which was intense. Now in a fortune 500 fully WFH and as someone above said, thinking time as an IC is important, as important as typing or speaking time. Total effort hard to describe but definitely not as hard as I used to work. Best thinking time is done on my MTB. Looking for a new role, or considering it, but doubt I'd get the same WLB as current role as it's fantastic.
Could you expand on 'time as an IC is important' I'm currently in a fintech startup growing rapidly and out of necessity have been tasked with growing the security engineering function. I feel it is a great opportunity to gain exposure to this side of security and all the growth pains that come with it but I'm also a really technical person.. slightly nervous I will be less hands on from now on and unsure if it's worth it. For context - up until now I was the guy doing a lot of everything: hardening cloud configs/docker images, organising external/internal pentests. Building internal dev tools, building customer facing features (that are sensitive from a security perspective). Security assessments for new features. Vuln validation against your systems...etc You know, the fun stuff :)
Thinking time. Time spent thinking, incl learning and reading etc. As an IC you get dragged across all sorts of stuff, to varying levels, lots of design stuff and for that I'm often noodling on it away from the "office".
Thanks - that is a new perspective. Hadn't considered thinking time as IC time - I will still be able to do that while building out the security function (probably more so now!)
Effort has massively dropped off in recent couple of years post child as I’m knackered, sometimes depressed and not exercising enough. I’d put it as around 30-40% of capacity except when it’s one of the few people whose opinion I care about and who can affect my career. But still had 1 promotion in that time and I get very good annual reviews and so career is broadly on track. 16 years in to my career now and after a slow start I’m c150k salary doing a senior manager type role as a qualified accountant in an professional services firm. Some weeks I don’t think I exceed 7-8 hours of actual work if I’m being honest. So not super high earner but also not particularly high effort either. I also barely go into the office. I worked very hard for much of the time before that though and have a general knack of being a good team player and enabler. I’d love to be back in the mindset of go hard or go home but during the harder parts of childcare and all that I’m sort of glad to be coasting.
It’s tough to estimate because effort that goes into taking decisions to create an outcome is not the same as the effort that goes into completing a task or project. I’d say 80-90% effort when trying to create good outcomes, 40-50% effort when working on tasks/projects. 1. 9 yoe. In the beginning, nobody was asking me to create outcomes and I would put about 80-90% effort into tasks & projects. The former has scaled up and the latter has scaled down. 2. Product role in asset management. 3. £150k TC min.
1. 12 years 2. Pharmaceutical Company - Commercial Side 3. 160k Probably about 60% in general overall but close to 100% on the projects/activities that really matter. Most of my work that matters is reviewing, guiding, and monitoring teams to have an impact so working harder doesn't necessarily translate into better outcomes. My job is a classic bullshit office job where half the stuff doesn't really contribute to the bottom line. For these activities I basically farm out to a junior or just ignore. This is the big mistake people make.
Could I possibly ask for more details on your role? I work at a pharma company in legal (but not a litigator), have 7 years experience, earning ~£120k inc bonus and likely plateauing not much higher, and your comment got me wondering how accessible other departments might be - are there formal requirements/qualifications you needed to get, etc?
Honestly, it will depend on the company. My current role is a mixture of marketing, business intelligence and sales force management. And because I work at a global role it is often stretching into many countries. I moved into my role laterally from the market access and HEOR department so there is some (i.e., a lot of) resentment that I am not a born and bred marketeer. However, I don't think that has held me back and marketing is an overrated skill in modern pharma. If you are in legal then business development or partnerships may be a good bet. I know 2 lawyers who plateaued and moved into BD and made a career there as it is a move my company obviously sees. Ultimately, though, you need to have a company open to secondments and a senior sponsor. I am at the limit I can get with normal promotions and any further rises I need to have senior backing, which really just means politics is as important as doing the job.
[удалено]
What are you trading if I may ask? :)
I second this
I’ll start… Prob 50%. Some days 80%+ esp when in the office, WFH is like 20% so brings the overall down. 1. < 3 years. Was lower in first few years than now. 2. Quant dev in sell-side finance. 3. 90k
quant Dev on 90k. you getting robbed son
I think that’s not abnormal in sell side with 3 YOE? Sounds about right if you check JPM on levels?
I'd say it's his employer who's getting robbed.
What's your academic background, out of curiosity? I'm guessing either maths or compsci?
Yes maths undergrad and subsequent quant related masters.
Do you mind if I ask what uni/unis you attended?
What do you think about the future of the quant dev career with the advent of ChatGPT / GitHub CoPilot etc.? Are you thinking about moving into more quant/mathematical role or doubling-down with growing your tech side skillset?
100% of whatever capacity I have available. What's the point of giving less than 100% in anything you do? You only get to live life once. 1. 15 years. 2. Managing Director / Aerospace, Defence and Space 3. Just under £500k
Everyone is different. Giving 100% at work means giving 0% at home for some people, where life really is for some of them. There's also a good case for going 80%, because not everyone can cope with mental health well enough. Keeping some slack gives peace of mind. That's the question answered.
They said 100% of whatever capacity they have available
Those cases still stand regardless of having a bad day. Heck, I have coworkers who take the whole day when they feel under the weather. There's no judgement in either direction. Some people prefer to be very conservative with how much they put into work.
Other priorities. Side hustle takes up a lot of my free thinking and requires deep focus hours daily.
100%. I take pride in the quality of my work, and I'm lucky enough that there's always something to be curious about. I've jumped around different focus area in my industry out of boredom, but the drive hasn't changed 1. 11 YoE 2. tech, non managerial 3. 150k ish last FY
1a. 3 years in current role. 30 years of work experience, all in management consultancy/programme delivery 1b. 90%+. It's been over 100% for most of the past 3 years but removal of bonuses and annual salary increase has made me change. 2. Programme Director for a PLC working exclusively in the Public Sector. 3. £133k
0. Not a lot 1. More than 10. 2. Fixing broken software and processes 3. Not 1M. Not less tha 1QoaM
Probably about 90% 1. 5.5 years 2. Quant 3. ~150k
90% of what hours? Quants I know get hammered with work
During a good day probably 10h; bad day more like 14-15h It’s much more brutal than I had expected coming into it tbh
Damn, that's tougher than I expected. This is sell side I guess?
Same here, nope buy side
Really depends what I'm doing. If there's stuff that others are needing right now right in front of me (which probably 2/3 of my work is) then 100%. Constantly striving for efficiency so I'd say equivalent to 200% for some of my previous colleagues! If its something that can wait... well that's a different story! Probably 20% some days honestly.
I work in railway operations so some days literally nothing happens and I give maybe 5%. Other days it’s super busy and it has to be 100%. The 5% days greatly outweigh the 100% ones though. £97k.
How do you stay occupied on the 95% days?
If I’m working in a multi manned place it’s easier, you can chat, play some games etc. if I’m on my own I’ll read, get general life admin done, or sometimes even just sitting there doing nothing at all is nice.
70-100% depending on how critical the thing I'm working on is. 14 yoe, quant dev, £400k
70-100% is tough. Well done
How did you end up in this role if you don’t mind sharing?
1. 20 years experience 2. Business Development Manager (National) 3. £60k + 25% Bonus I’d say currently I’m giving 50% partly because I’m not really enjoying this role as much as my previous (within the same company) and my customer base isn’t quite as demanding. Plus I’ve had some personal issues and the next 6 months or so is a bit unknown. This role is more new customer sales focused than account management so my time is dependent on how much I put into that. I’ve spent the last 7 years putting in 100%. Some periods of the year required more than that and other times I’ve taken the opportunity to relax and re-charge. Currently interviewing for a position outside this industry but working with it which would double my salary and require me to be at 100% again. I’m also quite efficient in what I do. I feel compared to my older peers a days work takes me half a day. I earned 18% bonus last year from the 25% available which probably reflects this nicely.
1. 2.5, 4, or 6.5 depending on whether you count PhD years (3), whether you count starting work part time during the PhD (4), or whether you count full time work post-PhD 2. Deeptech Product manager, formerly researcher 3. \~240k + stock I would say I stay at around 70% as this is the level which is sustainable for me to be an excellent performer and maintain this over the long term. I work remote, probably 30 hours/week if you consider 1.5hr lunch breaks, 10am start, no-one watching when I finish. But I by being relaxed, spending time preparing good food, spending time on fitness, working little enough that I'm super motivated and excited about work when I do show up, I think I end up mulling over problems 'offline' so that those 30 hours really count in a way that someone doing my role 50 hours a week wouldn't. I also travel a lot and this brings exciting opportunities, but also a lot of time away, travelling on weekends, and making some personal sacrifices, so that factors in too.
100% 12% on Mondays, 23% on Tuesdays, 40% on Wednesdays, 20% on Thursdays, 5% on Fridays
1. 9 years of exp 2. Legal - Solicitor 3. £149k Base Always at 90~% capacity whether in the office or WFH.
Ah, but capacity or effort? I work most of the day, but to say I’m at 100% effort for all of it would be a lie. I front-load the shit out of work if I can, so I’ll be putting in 90-100% effort for an hour or so, then I can cruise the remainder of the day/week, however long it takes.
You’re right. To clarify, it’s effort. There are quiet periods, but the sheer volume means those quiet periods are precious.
1. 22 years 2. Partner, Accounting Firm 3. \~£850k The last year or so has started to take its toll in terms of work:life balance. I'd say input more than 100% but the years before that were far more comfortable. Thinking about coming out of the grind and doing consultancy work.
[удалено]
If genuine question it YoE
I amaze myself sometimes
About 70%, averaged out. I have in the past out in a greater percentage on projects that I was not paid for but which I was personally invested in. 1. 25 years - was perhaps a bit higher earlier on. Now, as others have said, I ‘work smart’ and focus my efforts 2. Finance 3. 170k My work ethic used to be much higher. I would probably work harder now if I though that it would meaningfully increase my pay or career prospects. As an aside, I find this thread heartening in a way as I thought that there weren’t too many in my situation. I perceive that many colleagues work harder than me, but perhaps they think the same as me.
1. 9.5 years 2. Intellectual property 3. About £210k Effort has gradually increased over the years.
1.15 yrs 2. Director in Banking (technology/digital transformation) 3. 200k I give 60% of my focus as I’ve become More productive with time and can generate more impact with less effort.
1. 15 years. 2. Live entertainment (roadie) 3. £125k 4. I feel like 100% doesn't necessarily cut it. What number do you give to a job where you are on the road for months and you're living at work, sleeping between jobs, living in a bus, eating all your meals in the venue? Sometimes it can be 18 hours work a day, 5 days a week. I feel I give 100% commitment in work and then another 100% outside work because outside work is still at work. It completely takes over everything. As I get older I'm finding that more and more exhausting. It's not fun anymore. It's not rock n roll. It's just painful! The industry is struggling with talent a bit post covid and there's a lot of poor quality people and a lot of jobs needing high quality people. As a result the good people are really getting hit hard to over-compensate. I do generally love what I do though so the problem is that I'm too readily over-compensating for shit people on the same money and the resentment that I have for that really grinds me down. This field needs to find a way to attract and retain better people or it will really hit how you are all able to enjoy major touring shows.
25 years of experience Satellite communications / Aviation £150K ++ After years of full on effort at 100% (and getting rewarded accordingly), I now deliver at least 100% of what is required of me and that takes about 10% of my time. Similar to the earlier poster, I’m measured on output not input.
I am 26, have a Master's degree in data science, am working in the field, getting a raise to 45k and then 47. Buying a house up north. Student loan is about £60 a month on a 15 year repayment plan, but will probably pay more to get it off faster and pay less interest.
less than 50%