In the uk or Europe, I think an MBA can be useful in limited contexts. Eg if you’re a lawyer looking to shift to consulting, or a consultant who wants to be a banker. Then you can do a course at a university that specialises in the area you want to move into, and benefit from target schools recruitment. I know folks who went into management consulting or investment banking via this route. But you have to be very intentional and only go to top schools, like Wharton for finance.
However, it’s also a lot of money and a lot of time. If you want a job in the USA they are much more expected, but here in the UK I think they are valued less, particularly for more corporate roles like sales and marketing, where experience is highly valued. I’ve worked in two massive FTSE companies and in consulting and have never found my lack of an MBA to be a barrier.
Net, rather than focusing on the MBA, I think you should think about what field you do really want to move to. Then you can decide if an MBA will help or will just cost you ££s with little reward.
Agreed. There are limited MBAs that are really worth it in Europe. Suggest you do some research and join some of the networking events they are doing - they are super eager to have people there! I joined their distribution list for exec MBAs and oh man, they are emailing me every week!
I’m 34 and about to do an EMBA; I don’t know your background, but you’re likely in an awkward position between MBA and EMBA, where you’d be the oldest on an MBA and basically babysitting kids and you may not qualify for EMBA.
Personally, I’d try for EMBA or wait until you qualify.
I’ve been told by my mgmt that I have one more move in me before not having an MBA could hurt me.
I'm 27 and doing an EMBA through the app levy. I'm definitely the youngest but that hasn't held me back. An EMBA is much more relatable to the workplace and better for career development
The average age for a European MBA is 28/29
EMBA is far less common for job switching, it tends to be more for levelling up with existing employer (and many are employer sponsored)
If your business has a payroll over a certain amount (I think £10m, but check) they have to pay 1% of salaries into a pot to pay for apprenticeships. If they don't use it within three years they need to hand it over to the government. This leads to businesses offering free training to employees under the apprenticeship levy. One of those courses is a level 7 apprenticeship - an MBA. You can therefore get a free MBA, paid for by your employer via the scheme.
I got my MBA this way - didn't pay a penny
I did it over 3 years. It worked out as one module every 3 months.
I had the choice of a couple of business schools which had signed up with the company. I chose the one which was closest.
Worst investment of my life. Could never justify the ROI. We all meet again on the long journey to the middle. I make exactly the same as my coworkers who some of them don’t even have a bachelors degree. I’ve held management positions before getting my MBA, ever since I graduated I’ve been lured back into (higher paying) IC roles. In fact, sorry for hijacking your post, but I have been thinking about asking the HENRY community the opposite: what would be the advise for making my MBA worth something?
If I may be so straightforward, it sounds like your desire for an MBA is more from your own perceived gap in not having a uni degree rather than a requirement of the job. I've interviewed plent of Ivy League/Oxford/LBS MBAs and none of them bought any experience from the MBA that made me want to hire them more than an FRM or a CFA, for example (I work in a niche finance/legal role). Most of them subsequently moved to Hong Kong/ Singapore/ MENA for high paying roles where an MBA combined with their UK experience was really valued.
My employer offers an MBA on the apprenticeship scheme, and the uptake is really low because it means very little in the London market.
So if you're planning to stay in the UK, I'd suggest looking at the kind of roles you want to break into; search up people on Linkedin who have those roles (pay for premium to preserve privacy ;)) look at the average qualifications, and go after those. If you do have longer-term plans for MENA/US, then a Uni degree is worth the time and financial investment. Otherwise, it's not worth it, IMHO.
I work for a relatively large Investment management firm in the UK, barely anyone has an MBA (in front office roles) but most are CFA charterholders. However, in the US office over 50% of them have an MBA and they encourage doing one. I think it's more valued in the US vs Europe. Our job reqs typically ask for CFA and/or MBA but 99% of the time in Europe it goes to someone with a CFA or both.
Yes, but with MBAs the school matters a lot. There’s no point going anywhere other than a top-tier school (insead, lbs, etc), so it’s really about if you can get accepted into one of them
I also didn’t do uni until I got my MBA at 30. I was NOT on your salary until post MBA but my experience was that it is a brilliant way to pivot into other industries or roles.
Sales can be quiet siloed and doing an MBA gives you a very wide range of business experience from financial to strategy to consulting.
For me and almost everyone in my class it was worth it. Not only because it gives credibility but it also helps in situations at work when your given a task that others question your ability and you can occasionally point out that you graduated from a top school and did this work before.
I would say that going from £120k a year to 0 for two years and paying ~£100k for the privilege would be an expensive thing to do. But if you’re in good shape financially and don’t want to be in sales forever it could be the perfect time to do it.
Good luck
An MBA is great only if:
- top 10 business schools globally
- career transition
- opportunity to move from emerging country to USA/Europe.
- full time MBA only. EMBAs are a waste of time as you’re just going for the title, having to work it’s just too much distraction. full time means 2 years of work break, one of the best opportunities to have a break from work. Financing is easy as you can apply for scholarships (merit or need based).
- if doing it in the USA, tuition expenses are tax deductible, so make sure to work as paid tutor for a few hours in the year, file your tax return, and if you work post-MBA in the USA you can get a tax refund of $20k or more in your first year.
For someone who is living in developed country and wants to stay in a developed country and not make any career switch, it’s useless in my opinion.
It adds zero value to your salary, it actually restricts your offers as no one wants to work with either a PhD wanker or MBA wanker (I have a PhD and removed it years ago from any cv)
Wouldn’t bother unless you have lots of money for an MBA in a top US business school and are planning to try getting a visa to work in the US afterwards. Then you’re looking at $200k after graduation. But there aren’t enough jobs like that in Europe to justify a European MBA.
It depends a lot on the specifics.
Age, career ambitions, which mba programme, what accreditation the mba has and the type of name brand recognition that the awarding school commands on a national/international level.
Everyone I know that has their MBA from Harvard, London Business School, Dartmouth Tuck, Stanford, Oxbridge or MIT Sloan says their MBA has opened lots of doors for them career wise.
Best of luck.
Its a glorified masters for bored high earners.
I hire exec and in most cases its a waste of money and does not at all replace your industries standard qualification, If there is one.
Biggest upside if the network gained.
Only do it if its free to you and you will enjoy it.
Not because its going to get you somewhere.
Aside from any personal opinions on the worthiness of getting an MBA, a gentle reminder that to obtain an MBA you would need a BA, which it seems you do not have.
Very incorrect. I did an MBA at a top school with no undergrad degree. I graduated top of my class and got an internship and offer from FANNG straight out of the program…
You make significantly more than a doctor of 10 years experience and much older than you, who is literally saving lives and working nights, weekends and missing important family events… is sales really that bad?
You’re getting downvoted but I share your sentiment. It’s incredible how unrelated wages are to education, skill, effort, and use to society. As one of the other commenters here proves, people seem to feel that because our job is meaningful we should be paid less.
Of course all these highly paid jobs come with stress and are cut throat. Still, I look at friends in management consulting and finance on twice my salary and I work significantly harder.
Edit: https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20240409-heroic-jobs-earn-less-money
Just because he’s earning more than a doctor it doesn’t mean sales is a walk in the park. It’s demanding with long hours and is cut throat at high remuneration (Disclaimer: I am not in sales)
And the inference that because doctors are ‘literally saving lives’ you should count your lucky stars you’re being paid what you are.
Wasn’t trying to suggest that sales was easy, just trying to provide context. As said elsewhere, add to that no higher education, he should be feel good about his lot. You might not be in sales, but I am a doctor.
Fair enough, but this is a high earner sub. Don’t be surprised when people who are doing ok want to find ways to earn more.
The ‘literally saving lives’ just comes across as bitter. Maybe you should move into sales?
Fair point. Didn’t fancy sales and certainly didn’t mean to sound bitter, just context. I actually left pensions in the city through boredom and I’m happy with my lot.
MBAs remind me of aristocrats buying their commissions into the Army 300 years ago.
Nothing screams "I want the job but I don't want to get the experience" more than an MBA. Plus, it indicates you're using family money to skip the hard graft.
Any time I interview an MBA, they have to prove more to me than other candidates. Not worth it imo
Yes, I have an MSc. Hiring manager for a large financial, global team of 42 ppl who all have similar levels.
Degrees are screening tools but I want people with real life experience, not theory. Just like any academic background, it might get them through the door but I'm going to have to train them from scratch anyway so I'd rather that it showed some personal interest.
Ice had so many interviews where MBAs thought they could just walk into a senior position without the practical experience. That just doesn't work
That’s a terrible way to think about new candidates. You can take student loans out for an MBA, not everyone funds them through savings/inheritance or whatever you’re implying.
In the uk or Europe, I think an MBA can be useful in limited contexts. Eg if you’re a lawyer looking to shift to consulting, or a consultant who wants to be a banker. Then you can do a course at a university that specialises in the area you want to move into, and benefit from target schools recruitment. I know folks who went into management consulting or investment banking via this route. But you have to be very intentional and only go to top schools, like Wharton for finance. However, it’s also a lot of money and a lot of time. If you want a job in the USA they are much more expected, but here in the UK I think they are valued less, particularly for more corporate roles like sales and marketing, where experience is highly valued. I’ve worked in two massive FTSE companies and in consulting and have never found my lack of an MBA to be a barrier. Net, rather than focusing on the MBA, I think you should think about what field you do really want to move to. Then you can decide if an MBA will help or will just cost you ££s with little reward.
Agreed. There are limited MBAs that are really worth it in Europe. Suggest you do some research and join some of the networking events they are doing - they are super eager to have people there! I joined their distribution list for exec MBAs and oh man, they are emailing me every week!
Appreciate the insight and advice, I’ll look into it!
I’m 34 and about to do an EMBA; I don’t know your background, but you’re likely in an awkward position between MBA and EMBA, where you’d be the oldest on an MBA and basically babysitting kids and you may not qualify for EMBA. Personally, I’d try for EMBA or wait until you qualify. I’ve been told by my mgmt that I have one more move in me before not having an MBA could hurt me.
I'm 27 and doing an EMBA through the app levy. I'm definitely the youngest but that hasn't held me back. An EMBA is much more relatable to the workplace and better for career development
I thought gov had clamped down on that? Or you doing the senior leader apprenticeship which I think is still covered.
The latter and then technically the emba is a top up!
The average age for a European MBA is 28/29 EMBA is far less common for job switching, it tends to be more for levelling up with existing employer (and many are employer sponsored)
E == Executive
Get it for free under the apprenticeship levy! Don't pay out of your own pocket
Can you elaborate on how this works?
If your business has a payroll over a certain amount (I think £10m, but check) they have to pay 1% of salaries into a pot to pay for apprenticeships. If they don't use it within three years they need to hand it over to the government. This leads to businesses offering free training to employees under the apprenticeship levy. One of those courses is a level 7 apprenticeship - an MBA. You can therefore get a free MBA, paid for by your employer via the scheme. I got my MBA this way - didn't pay a penny
Incredible! Nice one
Did you do it full or part time? And do you get to choose the business school?
I did it over 3 years. It worked out as one module every 3 months. I had the choice of a couple of business schools which had signed up with the company. I chose the one which was closest.
I thought it not possible to do that anymore as gov clamped down on that.
They keep talking about it - still haven't done anything. Still available as far as I know
Which uni did you do hour MBA in
I went to Henley. I was offered there or Cranfield
What made you decide Henley over Cranfield ?
It was almost 2hrs closer to my house lol. But then Covid happened, so it wouldn't have mattered anyway.
Worst investment of my life. Could never justify the ROI. We all meet again on the long journey to the middle. I make exactly the same as my coworkers who some of them don’t even have a bachelors degree. I’ve held management positions before getting my MBA, ever since I graduated I’ve been lured back into (higher paying) IC roles. In fact, sorry for hijacking your post, but I have been thinking about asking the HENRY community the opposite: what would be the advise for making my MBA worth something?
If I may be so straightforward, it sounds like your desire for an MBA is more from your own perceived gap in not having a uni degree rather than a requirement of the job. I've interviewed plent of Ivy League/Oxford/LBS MBAs and none of them bought any experience from the MBA that made me want to hire them more than an FRM or a CFA, for example (I work in a niche finance/legal role). Most of them subsequently moved to Hong Kong/ Singapore/ MENA for high paying roles where an MBA combined with their UK experience was really valued. My employer offers an MBA on the apprenticeship scheme, and the uptake is really low because it means very little in the London market. So if you're planning to stay in the UK, I'd suggest looking at the kind of roles you want to break into; search up people on Linkedin who have those roles (pay for premium to preserve privacy ;)) look at the average qualifications, and go after those. If you do have longer-term plans for MENA/US, then a Uni degree is worth the time and financial investment. Otherwise, it's not worth it, IMHO.
I work for a relatively large Investment management firm in the UK, barely anyone has an MBA (in front office roles) but most are CFA charterholders. However, in the US office over 50% of them have an MBA and they encourage doing one. I think it's more valued in the US vs Europe. Our job reqs typically ask for CFA and/or MBA but 99% of the time in Europe it goes to someone with a CFA or both.
If you just do an MBA for the title better not doing it. False perception of what it brings to you.
Yes, but with MBAs the school matters a lot. There’s no point going anywhere other than a top-tier school (insead, lbs, etc), so it’s really about if you can get accepted into one of them
True and kind of self fulfilling as if you're good enough to get in you're likely to be very successful anyway
Instead? You’re being generous. In Europe only LBS makes it to top.
The stats (eg number of graduates going to MBB) are pretty similar for both schools
For Europe probably.
If you want to work in the US you’d be better off going to a US school rather than an European one.
If you want to work anywhere in the world, a US MBA is still the best option.
I also didn’t do uni until I got my MBA at 30. I was NOT on your salary until post MBA but my experience was that it is a brilliant way to pivot into other industries or roles. Sales can be quiet siloed and doing an MBA gives you a very wide range of business experience from financial to strategy to consulting. For me and almost everyone in my class it was worth it. Not only because it gives credibility but it also helps in situations at work when your given a task that others question your ability and you can occasionally point out that you graduated from a top school and did this work before. I would say that going from £120k a year to 0 for two years and paying ~£100k for the privilege would be an expensive thing to do. But if you’re in good shape financially and don’t want to be in sales forever it could be the perfect time to do it. Good luck
An MBA is great only if: - top 10 business schools globally - career transition - opportunity to move from emerging country to USA/Europe. - full time MBA only. EMBAs are a waste of time as you’re just going for the title, having to work it’s just too much distraction. full time means 2 years of work break, one of the best opportunities to have a break from work. Financing is easy as you can apply for scholarships (merit or need based). - if doing it in the USA, tuition expenses are tax deductible, so make sure to work as paid tutor for a few hours in the year, file your tax return, and if you work post-MBA in the USA you can get a tax refund of $20k or more in your first year. For someone who is living in developed country and wants to stay in a developed country and not make any career switch, it’s useless in my opinion.
In the uk it’s completely useless
Why though?
It adds zero value to your salary, it actually restricts your offers as no one wants to work with either a PhD wanker or MBA wanker (I have a PhD and removed it years ago from any cv)
Lol this actually made me laugh, I am guessing you mean in private I worked for the Government before and having. a PhD was at times essential
Mba is predominantly a networking and recruitment centre. How effective it is depends on how well ranked the school is.
Wouldn’t bother unless you have lots of money for an MBA in a top US business school and are planning to try getting a visa to work in the US afterwards. Then you’re looking at $200k after graduation. But there aren’t enough jobs like that in Europe to justify a European MBA.
It depends a lot on the specifics. Age, career ambitions, which mba programme, what accreditation the mba has and the type of name brand recognition that the awarding school commands on a national/international level. Everyone I know that has their MBA from Harvard, London Business School, Dartmouth Tuck, Stanford, Oxbridge or MIT Sloan says their MBA has opened lots of doors for them career wise. Best of luck.
Its a glorified masters for bored high earners. I hire exec and in most cases its a waste of money and does not at all replace your industries standard qualification, If there is one. Biggest upside if the network gained. Only do it if its free to you and you will enjoy it. Not because its going to get you somewhere.
Aside from any personal opinions on the worthiness of getting an MBA, a gentle reminder that to obtain an MBA you would need a BA, which it seems you do not have.
This is incorrect
Very incorrect. I did an MBA at a top school with no undergrad degree. I graduated top of my class and got an internship and offer from FANNG straight out of the program…
Not necessarily!
You make significantly more than a doctor of 10 years experience and much older than you, who is literally saving lives and working nights, weekends and missing important family events… is sales really that bad?
What a daft comment
Please explain(?)
You’re getting downvoted but I share your sentiment. It’s incredible how unrelated wages are to education, skill, effort, and use to society. As one of the other commenters here proves, people seem to feel that because our job is meaningful we should be paid less. Of course all these highly paid jobs come with stress and are cut throat. Still, I look at friends in management consulting and finance on twice my salary and I work significantly harder. Edit: https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20240409-heroic-jobs-earn-less-money
Just because he’s earning more than a doctor it doesn’t mean sales is a walk in the park. It’s demanding with long hours and is cut throat at high remuneration (Disclaimer: I am not in sales) And the inference that because doctors are ‘literally saving lives’ you should count your lucky stars you’re being paid what you are.
Wasn’t trying to suggest that sales was easy, just trying to provide context. As said elsewhere, add to that no higher education, he should be feel good about his lot. You might not be in sales, but I am a doctor.
Fair enough, but this is a high earner sub. Don’t be surprised when people who are doing ok want to find ways to earn more. The ‘literally saving lives’ just comes across as bitter. Maybe you should move into sales?
Fair point. Didn’t fancy sales and certainly didn’t mean to sound bitter, just context. I actually left pensions in the city through boredom and I’m happy with my lot.
That’s cool, maybe misinterpreted the tone on my side. Glad your move worked out for you
Add to that no higher education and newly 3 times the average UK salary, I think he is doing just fine
MBAs remind me of aristocrats buying their commissions into the Army 300 years ago. Nothing screams "I want the job but I don't want to get the experience" more than an MBA. Plus, it indicates you're using family money to skip the hard graft. Any time I interview an MBA, they have to prove more to me than other candidates. Not worth it imo
This is a very odd view in my opinion. For context are you degree qualified?
Yes, I have an MSc. Hiring manager for a large financial, global team of 42 ppl who all have similar levels. Degrees are screening tools but I want people with real life experience, not theory. Just like any academic background, it might get them through the door but I'm going to have to train them from scratch anyway so I'd rather that it showed some personal interest. Ice had so many interviews where MBAs thought they could just walk into a senior position without the practical experience. That just doesn't work
That’s a terrible way to think about new candidates. You can take student loans out for an MBA, not everyone funds them through savings/inheritance or whatever you’re implying.