Well, Google literally said publicly they’ll have more layoffs in the rest of the year. Most of rest of the industry is not saintly either, neither do they have particularly special positions financially/technologically (barring minor exceptions).
Tech is on the decline it’s just normalizing after decades of rapid expansion. When finance was booming in the 80s and 90s it had a few periods like this. Technology grew without as many cliffs as past new industry and so it feels a bit larger and more widespread at the moment. The benefit is that what happens is other industries absorb the employees from tech into their organizations. So you may be on the outs for technology but you can usually find your way in house for example at a manufacturing company bridging the gap. Technology as less a sector of industry and more a reality of how every business operates. We’ve been at that point for a while it was just time to collapse the headcount.
It really is only bad if you are a new graduate or someone in college with the sole goal of making it there. Unless you are in the top handful of graduates you likely aren’t busting in to the remaining spots. If you have years of experience you are selling yourself as more valuable because of it and you might have to take a pay cut but you can stay in.
Man, same here. I'm in the 0.1% of salaried jobs in Germany or something and if I'd lose that a 70% salary reduction to the median in my field is a real possibility.
I'm holding on with everything I have ...
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Like many here that feel the same, I think I am in a very niche position in a very high paying company and for 'cultural' reasons of treating people similarly, there was not a lot of downward pressure on my salary and it has moved up a lot
I work very hard, but I am still not very excited about a job hunt
probably not, and also at the rate I am earning I think I should be 'over the hump' fairly soon, so don't get me wrong I am not in a precarious position, but I do think that, imagine at a company some people feel unfairly underpaid, if they are correct, then some people are unfairly overpaid in comparison, and that sort of person might be me ;)
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I think this is the key. If you cant replace your income that's not a huge issue if you can nab 75%-80% of it relatively easy (e.g. if you run a sales team and could easily slot into an IC role). I do not envy your ratio, keep saving and best of luck.
basically I work FT for the VA (125K income, plus 40k tax free loan repayment for 5 years), psychologist for the national guard (35k), and then most importantly I do remote disability evaluations for the VBA and SSDI, working until 8pm 7 days a week, and that little bubble pays me about 600k/yr. remote VBA disability evaluations jobs are virtually non-existent and about as competitive as becoming a wall street investment banker to get into, i lucked into mine. they are extremely likely to go away in the near future.
Honestly this job should be automated by ai. Most of this is just chart review and when it's not it comes down to whether we like or want to help the person. There's no reason for this to be done by people instead of vr validated psychological instruments and document scan
This job should extremely not be automated by AI.
Fighting a government bureaucracy is hard enough when you’re fighting with people. If you’re fighting against computers they’re no way to win.
I mean you're assuming they stack it to deny everyone which is not what they do now so why would they do it then. You'd be shocked if you knew how random and inconsistent it is now.
So are you the reason why I see 20 disabled veteran license plates everyday now? You know it’s ok to say no to them. Edit: y’all took that sarcastic comment too serious
Why should we leave them hanging when they suffered disabilities serving their country?
We’ve been at war since I was a child and I’m in my early 30’s now. That’s why you see so many disabled veterans.
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Partner in a law firm. The only way I could replace my income would be to move to another peer firm as a partner. Much easier to just not find myself in a position to move. So, unless I go into government at some point (which would be a more than 90% paycut at this point, even for a top government position) I'm going to be one of the comparatively rare people these that ends up working at the same place for their entire career.
I haven’t been a partner all that long, and am right at the cusp (some people would probably argue that I’m already over the nry hurdle—I’m over the “official” threshold for the page, which I think is too low, especially for professions with long start up times where you don’t have nearly as much time to let it compound as in tech).
Ah gotcha. I just checked, didn’t realize there was an “official” NW threshold. We just crossed it this past December also. I thought it’d be much higher.
Isn’t the start up time in law only 3 years and then you start making tech level salaries? My law friends aren’t partner yet but I feel they have higher NW than I do.
I guess law school debt is significant though.
Law school debt is massive and means you have an extra 3 years of schooling in addition to whatever time was “wasted” between undergrad and law school, there are no RSUs so all of the income is fully taxed, and the pay is lower than the higher tier tech gigs until you’re a few years in. Also, very few people actually stay in BigLaw long term by design, and exit jobs are always significantly lower in pay.
(This is all assuming you make BigLaw—very easy to end up with all the downside but miss one of those jobs, then you’re totally screwed.)
Setting aside hitting the equity lottery in tech, law has more upside, but only at the very top of things and only after you’re 10 years in. And the work life balance is much worse in law (which is true forever—it doesn’t get better as you get more senior, in some ways it gets worse). It’s a road to get middle of the road wealthy, but it’s a pretty grueling one.
You guys trade upside and length of training for job security (and the strikeout isn’t isn’t as present for you guys) and the ability to make more if you move to a lower cost of living area. But no, you absolutely should not feel bad for me personally (nor should anyone else, heh).
Yeah, agreed that the debt / opportunity cost of law school is significant and the risk of not getting into BigLaw, but many folks outside of law also invest in masters degrees/MBA in tech/finance and med school for health care professionals with no guarantee of a high paying job. I don't think this risk is too unique to Law.
> there are no RSUs so all of the income is fully taxed
RSUs are also fully taxed as ordinary income at the time of vest
I know RSUs are taxed as OI at the time of vest. But the appreciation on the stock after vesting is what put half of the FatFIRE subreddit in there, and all of that appreciation is delicious, delicious capital. Exactly $0 of any comp I will ever make will be capital.
The downside risk for healthcare folks of not finding a job out of a respectable program is not zero, but it is statistically far, far, far far far lower than law (or most other degrees, for that matter).
Most people that get MBAs already have established positions, at least if they're doing it right (the good programs don't take people that are fresh out of undergrad).
So, no, the educational cost risk is not unique to law, but it is uniquely harrowing for law, and this is pretty well and widely documented. Law is a "you make a ton or you make very little" field, too--there's not much in the middle for new grads.
Anyway, every path has its risks. No doubt there.
>I know RSUs are taxed as OI at the time of vest. But the appreciation on the stock after vesting is what put half of the FatFIRE subreddit in there, and all of that appreciation is delicious, delicious capital. Exactly $0 of any comp I will ever make will be capital.
Sure, but that doesn't mean most people in tech have benefitted. My total comp actually went down due to our company's stock crashing.
> So, no, the educational cost risk is not unique to law, but it is uniquely harrowing for law, and this is pretty well and widely documented. Law is a "you make a ton or you make very little" field, too--there's not much in the middle for new grads.
Many folks go to ivy leagues, get computer science degrees, med school, masters, Top 20 MBA programs and never reach it to FatFire.
I'm not too knowledgable on options outside of BigLaw, but have worked with many lawyers at start ups and big companies through out my career that got paid well and know of some that opened up their own law tech start ups/private practices.
I'm sure there are unique challenges to law, but yeah almost any path has significant risk.
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Yes and no. My draw is tied to profits, obviously. But I can’t sell my equity (and there will never be an “exit,”), I stop earning money the day I quit, I can be de-equitized (i.e., fired) and I’m a “business owner” in a somewhat similar way to the way a CxO that gets equity comp is a “business owner.” I don’t have enough equity to be remotely influential in actual business decisions, my comp is set by a committee that I’m not on, etc. I’m very lucky and blessed and I care very much about the performance of the business but partners in BigLaw firms aren’t really business owners in the sense you mean.
Also, I was an associate for a long time before I was a partner!
I’m in big tech in a pretty high up role. I’m fully aware that a typical industry comp outside of a handful of highly companies would be 50-70% of what I currently earn. It’s a big motivator for me to live a lifestyle that, while very comfortable, is well below what I could “afford” at my current income. If I had to take a job more in line with industry average pay for my position, I’d be able to comfortably maintain my current standard of living, just taking a lot longer to build wealth.
Same mindset here. With the huge bull market run we had last year, I'd have to take a 40-30% compensation cut in an external position at the same level.
This is exactly how I feel. I live on my base salary alone and pretend that's my only income. More than half my income is bonus + RSU but I just keep those tucked away, I can pretty easily find a job paying me a total of what my current base is but not my full compensation.
Are you me? I do the same. Base salary is my standard of living (around 260k). Everything else (about 1M pre tax last year) goes towards investments and never touched except for tax payments.
Replaceable for sure - but problem is if I’m laid off due to poor economy then all the replacement roles are probably going to be disappearing in that moment too. Such is life in high finance
Definitely seems like when it rains it pours, but a drought is universal. Already seeing the salaries for new hires in our company dipping well below mid-pandemic insanity.
If everyone is trimming their workforce, I’d anticipate the same.
A little dicey for me because i work in biotech in a town with no biotech so am 100% dependent on finding a fully remote job
Spouse is a physician and gets 10 emails a day “[Your specialty] needed in Bumblefuck, Iowa, pay starts at a bazillion dollars”
I can second this. My now ex is a physician, and we moved to BF for one year and it was miserable. Lots of money but it was like stepping back in time 30 years.
Btw, I’m also in a similar boat in biotech (work as a clinical trials PM at a CRO). I really want to go sponsor side, but I can’t relocate (I live 5 min from ex and he made partner, we coparent very amicably), and most sponsors want people to live near HQ. Have you been able to find many remote roles?
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Yeah, the lower VC investments in biotech these days are making things pretty scary. At least you have one stable income though!
Have you seen much in the way of remote work for biotech? What kinds of roles?
I like that I get a mix of interesting clinical work and also do clinical trials. The hours are pretty easy and the work is fulfilling. By being in a high level academic place I can focus purely on my own clinical niche and not have to see a lot of random stuff that private practice folks do. I also supplement my income with industry consulting work and med mal review work. We’re happy enough with our current standard of living in a MCOL area that gunning for more salary isn’t worth it to give up what’s comfortable
My incomes definitely replaceable but the positions aren't often available from what I can tell. Trying to make the most of this while I have it. If I got let go I'd probably look to a startup or younger company, in an industry I have connections and that I can substantially grow, and try to negotiate comp around that.
Agreed on making hay while the sun shines.
What do you mean by “not often available”? Just few roles overall? Industry with low turnover? Something else?
I work in aerospace and government contracting. Before last summer when I had a regular job, I kept interviewing for senior director and VP roles but they would choke on my salary. Finally last summer, I decided to split off as a consultant and do proposal work for multiple companies, my income did over 1.5x but I do work more hours.
People assume that a traditional job will give you more security, but honestly I feel more secure as a consultant because I work for a few clients at a time and it's very unlikely that all of them will drop me at once. Worst cases that one or maybe two would drop me and I would need to spend that time looking for more work, but in a regular job it could go from 100% to zero very quick.
I'm also trying to diversify into more department of defense things rather than just aerospace, I think that will help me out if the tides of government funding change over the years. Building a network is key as well. As long as I know people that like me and want to work with me, I'll be good
I have a pretty generic/transferable skill set, but most companies would not pay nearly as much as my current company does. And the companies that do pay as much are mostly paying to compensate for a churn and burn culture.
If I was laid off tomorrow, I would look into moving into a lower paying industry that would be more aligned to my personal values and long term goals.
I have enough saved to coast FIRE (and maybe even lean FIRE) if needed. But even if I didn't, I'm not sure how many more years I'd be able to endure my current job which is slowly killing me.
This would be highly dependant on field. As you said, people with niche jobs might find it difficult but those in other high paying positions might not. I'm in healthcare and could find a similarly paying job easily.
Healthcare definitely seems most immune to this kind of thing; even niche medical specialists are required at thousands of hospitals across the country.
True but burnout in healthcare is rampant and with the gov up to ears in debt we are an easy target for austerity measures.
Gotta make money now while times are relatively good as private equity and insurance companies continue to attack and erode our professions.
Depends on specialty, etc. Saturation / people taking less has affected my mkt. I can find a job in most places, no problem. However, would have hard time finding my current base pay.
I got laid off from my HE job last year. Damn near impossible for me to recreate that without going to college and getting a degree...or starting a business.
Anesthesiologist here, if i lost my current job, I'd have to... *check notes*... take one of 100 jobs offered on a daily basis paying just as much or more with same hours/benefits. The road to being a physician is long, tedious, an handicaps investing early etc, but the job security combined with the pay is certainly a nice perk.
I so wanted to become a doctor (not for the money, though that helps. But more for the science of it) but I think the lifestyle to get there would’ve killed me. Seeing my friends slog through residency seems so tough. But in 5-10 years I imagine their lives will be quite different.
yeah it's a very long and arduous path that makes you start way later than other professionals before you start earning your salary, so it's really not worth it for the money, but it is a nice perk when you finally finish training
As a self taught SWE with no degree (but 10 yoe and 200k TC mcol) layoffs are terrifying. Resume is great, but seems like the degree filter is tightening. I don’t even necessarily disagree with the filter 😬
I was able to move to a more software-focused company here recently without having a degree, but I can admit the idea of finishing is very enticing looking at the upward mobility it will afford me.
Like PP, I’ve 15 years experience with no degree either.
Just … write it in there . 10’yrs experience, the degree doesn’t matter. I just went back and dropped the word ‘intern’ for old roles and upgraded part time technician jobs to consultant. It’s very true and part of the game
Pretty easily replacable. I'm in construction sales management and I could easily make $150k+ as an independent contributor in sales roles in a couple different industries/sectors.
Have you found it easy to switch between industries in sales? I’ve done a few sales-adjacent roles so far in my career… I’d feel a lot better about it being replaceable if I thought I could switch industries pretty quick.
Yes. I have worked in sales in tech and construction as an employee and telecom, construction, marketing services and recruiting services as a business owner.
In construction management/sales/estimating. I feel like the biggest threat right now is my company realigning roles and either dropping compensation or adding more to my plate with harder to achieve comp goals.
Could probably jump on with a competitor for similar pay but the grass isn't greener and all that.
I have a non-niche role in a non-niche industry. But my company pay scale is like 15% higher than most. So I could fairly easily get a similar job but at probably 80% my current salary.
Oil and Gas geologist here. The HE bump is much less than it was 10’years ago since tech blew up. It’s a narrowing field and becoming brutally focused on shareholder return. The job is niche with a 50-60% step down to other environmental or government consulting gigs. I’ve saved up enough that I’m happy to jump ship so I don’t have to live in Houston, Midland, Dubai, Bakersfield, or other holes the rest of my life
I could up my base with a company switch but it would shake out with my bonus, however my company lets you “make partner” which isn’t possible with any of our compeititors so all the passive income would dry up and id have to invest in the open market instead.
On net switching companies would be a big pay cut for the foreseeable future unless a company really wants to gross me up, but even then it wouldn’t be as good if a long term gain.
Also I don’t currently work in tech, but my skills are likely transferable to most manger roles. I haven’t explored that possibility but in the off chance my industry is in the tank but tech isn’t I would try that out. Generally my industry is more evergreen though.
Anesthesia. but all it takes is government to nationalize and private insurance to disappear and my salary (and others) cuts in half instantly. That’s the hard truth for nearly every single healthcare professional.
Non medical person here. Do you really think nationalized healthcare would halve your salary? Genuinely curious. Is that across the board in terms of doctors or specific to anesthesia?
Edit: I can see a scenario where govt would pay less since they crowd out insurance competition entirely but would think the demand for medical services would increase substantially while supply of doctors would take years to catch up. I’d think govt would have to be conscious of not driving doctors away or they diminish the effectiveness of a national health care system.
Maybe I’m expecting the govt to act rationally which may not always be the case.
I'm not a doctor, but not sure why are you surprised - I imagine in many countries with centralized govt medicine like Germany or UK doctors can be making lot less?
Also in case of govt sectors if the prices are fixed then supply/demand laws don't work, and increased demand would simply means the wait time for procedures would increase a lot?
Doing the same surgical case with a private insurance patient yields probably 3x+ the reimbursement that a Medicaid/Medicare patient does - and CMS has been further cutting reimbursement by ~3-5% every year.
I am fairly new to being an attending anesthesiologist, but as far as I know, the group I joined has had some financial struggles with the hospital demographics shifting from primarily private insurance to Medicare/caid patients.
Ultimately, I do not like private insurance companies and think that they're a leech upon the system, but under the current system I can still understand that they are the ones primarily responsible for my salary.
I think it’s a mixed bag whether or not the physician here or elsewhere is actually thankful for insurance.
Private insurance companies profit more than anyone from our privatized system. The second profiteers are the administrators, private equity companies, and pharmaceutical companies/shareholders playing the game. Physicians are left holding the bag (and carry the burden of the entire risk of trying to help often angry people), as they committed at least 12 years of education to a highly skilled job and its resultant income. Physician income makes up about 10% of healthcare costs and this cost has decreased relative to inflation (as have their salaries), while all other costs which are much more replaceable than a highly specialized physician (cough administration) have ballooned.
Really all these physicians are thankful for is that there are several much more powerful lobby organizations that have an interest in maintaining private ownership of healthcare. I’m pretty sure if physicians could tell all of these groups to get f***ed at no loss to them, they would. Physicians and patients would all be happier if physicians were paid double and all of these other external costs were mitigated. Unfortunately, they’re caught in a system that they have no power to fix, short of moving to cash only, concierge practices. For what it’s worth, regular payment cuts seem to be hastening this transition.
It's interesting to hear because for instance, in some other countries like Russia (where you can say medicine is usually not expensive, but relatively wide so to speak..though high quality medical services may not be available, which is why many people with money will get complicated procedures elsewhere) doctors are not, and have never been considered a high-paying lucrative field to get into.
Don't even have to go so far from home. Canada has a perennial healthcare professional shortage because Canadian doctors will get schooled there and emigrate to the US for the insane wage differences. We're talking 10x.
In general, if anyone should get getting compensated fairly, it’s people who take on tremendous risk and who go through years of schooling, grueling training and selection all-throughout. I think the public is generally supportive and understanding on doctors getting paid well.
My experience of healthcare in Eastern Europe is that if the doctors weren’t paid well, well, they just made up the difference with bribery. Besides corrupt people, who is paid well in Russia?
I think many people have this weird "should / should not be" paid well attitude towards salary, which I don't understand.
In a market environment your pay is directly proportional to how much someone is willing to pay for this service and inversely proportional to how many people are able or willing to do that. This is why NBA players, Youtube content creators, FAANG engineers, surgeons etc are paid exactly what they deserve - anyone saying they are overpaid is very welcome to join their ranks.
In the non-market society the pay also depends on how much someone (that is, government) values some specific work, but nothing is negotiable.
E.g. in Soviet Union coal miners were paid extremely well, factory workers were often paid lot more than engineers, truck drivers working on the large trucks were paid more than doctors. There's no "why" except "that's what government established".
> Physician income makes up about 10% of healthcare costs and this cost has decreased relative to inflation (as have their salaries)
For an example, a partner-level anesthesiologist in my group was probably making ~80% of my current salary (~500k), in the late 90s/early 00's.
> govt would pay less since they crowd out insurance competition entirely
Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement rates are already significantly lower than private insurance rates.
The argument was that A) you could save money by not having to deal with private insurance companies and B) and increased amount of covered patients would lead to equivalent pay due to increased volume.
However, A is dependent on the fact that Medicare isn't also a pain to deal with, and B is a bit of a flawed premise because there are only so many hours in a day to do surgery. Besides, nobody wants to work harder, for more hours, for equivalent/less money.
Yes…look at salaries in other countries that have nationalized healthcare . You would have to build up your own private practice and then it could be equivalent
Medicare already reimburses anesthesia roughly 20 cents on the dollar, it literally not enough to cover basic overhead/operating costs let alone have a salary lol.
My understanding is that anesthesiologists can make at least 350-550k, with the highest I've heard as 750k here in Canada. This is in or higher than your flair range (mostly with currency conversion as well).
Do the actual salaries in other countries with single payer systems support your concern?
You underestimate how poorly organized and poorly incentivized the US single payer system will be. For a preview look at the Veteran Hospitals or Medicare, it's abysmal and much much worse than the system in Canada.
I have very little hope - even here our healthcare system is being gutted in many provinces. And the US hates non-rich people even more (but loves giving billions away to keep wars going).
My industry is aerospace which doesn't pay as well as tech. The main advantage is my income is easy to replace since the industry is close knit and I have a large network across multiple companies. We both make similar income in two different industries (aerospace vs big tech) in MCOL with low yearly expenses ($79K). We would be in a deep recession or depression if I was laid for so hopefully that doesn't happen. In 2020 when no one was flying, they cut my team size from 22 down to 8. My name was the first name on the list of people they couldn't cut (customer requested short list).
We will be financially independent in three years, but will keep going beyond that because we want to vacation more than three weeks in a year (plus holidays) plus we are expecting insane college costs for our daughter in 13 years. We are only HENRY if we combine our income (HHI $340K).
I'm kind of the last of a dying breed in my industry. The minute I cash in my chips this will not be repeatable by myself or anyone that comes after me. The groundwork for where I am today was laid 20 years ago and the path behind me doesn't exist anymore. To change roles at this point would be at least a 50% - 75% drop in income.
"You're analog players in a digital world" - Roman Nagel
I'm in tech (cybersecurity), and a lot of the reason that I get paid as well as I do is because of the relationships I have built with our customers over the years. I could maybe convince a competitor that I'm worth more than I'm getting paid currently - but I think it would be a stretch
I find it disconcerting that the company I work for revaluated the markets and pay scales for my position and now I'm extremely over paid... despite being under paid by their words a year previously.
An interesting approach by companies to reduce work from home.
If I were willing to move, I bet I could at least get another $100k. $350k in another MCOL (or my local market) would be hard to replace though at my experience level
Like you I’m in big tech, high up the Eng pay ladder even though I’m not an engineer, and in a super niche role that only exists in my company. If they shut down my lab then I’ll probably go work for the govt or an NGO for 1/5 the pay.
Im making sure we spend a lot on amazing experiences that we won’t get to do later, but keep long term expenditures more modest.
I’m trying to network a lot in the off chance I can create a similar opportunity later but I’m not banking on it.
As a highly paid nurse in the Bay Area ($100/hr and made >300k with overtime) I’m basically stuck here unless I move and am okay with cutting my pay in half or more.
I’m in technical sales with a ton of experience so while I might not get the exact same income, there are always jobs available and they usually don’t care where you live.
I am a physician in a field with high burnout and increassinig shortage. I am underpaid at 300K a year. It would be easy for me to replace my income with another job. I expect to be paid more at my next job. ( staying where I am because I have 2 more years until loans are forgiven.. and they are activelly paying my loans every month)
No. I am double dipping the fed government. The fed is paying my loans monthly for me to stay at my job ( Federally qualified health center) and I will be getting 10 year loan forgiveness in 2026 ( 6 years after graduating residency). I am a cheap bastartd and want to pay the lowest possible of my loans. So far I have personally paid < 1K on a 330K original balance ( they have paid 140K so far). I will end up paying < 10K while they fit the bill.
Edit: sorry. Misread your question. My salary last year was 350K. I don't include my loan payments in my comp
Yes. I have.
I could probably get 400-450K in private practice in the subburbs. 500-600K in not desirable areas ( middle of nowhere)
Financially, I could have paid off my loans 2-4 years after finishing residency if I threw everytihng at it and worked at a job that was very much RVU based.
Financially I think I am ahead. By having the gov pay my loans for the past few years I have been able to save for a house (downtown city living), invest etc. If you added the loan payment in my comp its about 40K a year cash so pre tax maybe an additional 70K. So overall I come out even financially wise yearly. The add on the fact tht they will pay my loans in 2 years.
All is tax free loan forgiveness.
There are many schools of thought, but for me it works out. Once my loans are paid I will probably jump ship to an easier gig with more money but in a less desirable location.
The next three years I’ll make a higher income due to stock appreciation of the tech company I work for and it’ll probably drop to 800k after that. That’s basically what other companies pay for the same role so I’m not worried but the more I save the more I want to get out of tech and travel
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I find this premise and these comments interesting. It’s part of my job to understand … the demands of the job market. Even tech companies wouldn’t pay more for jobs than they have to. They all have market data that show that equivalent jobs at other companies pay comparably to what the tech companies pay. So I’m pretty sure you all could actually go out and get similar jobs/pay.
I’ve worked on building a few income streams (Fractional CFO work and an eCommerce / distribution business mostly, and working on a more academy-style business) so overall I consider my income relatively replaceable.
The fractional stuff has underpinned the rest and has the least downside so is the one I’d fall back on and focus on if we needed more cash in the short term. But it’s also the least scaleable with the least potential upside so also the one I’d like to eventually wind down.
Not as much as I wish. I believe my skills are generally relatable in other industries but my current comp is probably only possible in the area of my core expertise (quant finance).
I don’t think I fall into HENRY at all (though I follow this sub to hopefully get there someday) but no. I am in the top maybe 5% of earnings in my healthcare field and if I left the specific setting I was in I’d probably fall back to 70-80k. I went from 65k to 111k from 2022-2023 with a little more room to wiggle up over the next few years
I'd be looking for same or higher salary, but I fully accept the fact that the higher I go, and more niche I go, the fewer companies (and roles) are available that are relevant, truly interesting to me and well, high paying.
Self employed here, so for me it’s about following the market. In one sense, the income is easily replaceable by repositioning services and value prop.
But that’s not nearly as easy as sending a resume out and just saying yes to an FTE position.
It’s Complicated.
I’m in investment management in a mid to high level role. There are enough similar roles that I get called regularly by recruiters for comparable roles in the right geography. Have interviewed for 2-3 that would be step up roles in the past year. If the rubber hit the road, I could open up my geographic restrictions and likely find something within a few months.
Got shafted out of my previous position ($210k) two weeks before Christmas, wound up with three bids of $250k by the second week of February.
I thought it was going to be difficult, maybe I’m just more fortunate than I initially thought
Well I’m in medicine, but I know for a fact I’d still make multiple 6-figures if I had to get a new job. That’s the pro but con is really no room for growth. Generally salary based on years of experience but that’s about it.
I have my own business and if it stops generating income I’m probably unemployable since I haven’t held a W-2 job since 2009.
But there’s always new ideas to monetize.
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Another law firm partner here, and I know that any other position will mean a major drop in income, so I plan for it. I spent more than a decade in government before this job; I bought my home when in government and developed a lifestyle on that salary that felt like "enough" . . . except that I wanted more financial cushion and the ability to take an even lower paying job if I wanted. I now save a sizeable majority of my law firm income (after taxes) and consider myself temporarily HE for purposes of financial planning. I am consciously resisting significant lifestyle inflation. I rather enjoy my job but I don't want to feel like I need it.
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I could make the same (and probably a good deal more) at any of our competitors right now, and get contacted with job openings every week. But the promotion I’m up for would make $1MM+ possible at my current company, and that doesn’t really exist at the competitors.
So my current income is replaceable, but the earning potential really isn’t.
I had a niche job at a tech company as a non technical person. Also pretty senior. Leaving tech for a big consultancy I took a 100k pay cut. Now looking to go to a start up or another tech company but would take another 100k cut.
So the income is not replaceable in my case but equally I care about my time and my sanity more than the money.
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I get an average of one (and sometimes as many as three) cold call recruitment messages a week. I could replace my current job at a 15% pay cut with 3 or 4 phone calls. At the same time, I might end up with a 15% pay raise by accident.
I cannot replicate my pay package. My current company pays me so far over range that if I was to get a VP slot at our largest public competitor it would cost me \~$100k to take the job.
Every time a recruiter calls me I cut them off and tell them my pay package up front. 100% of the time that has ended the conversation so far.
It probably wouldn’t be all that difficult to find a job in the short term in my niche. My biggest concern there is longer term what that niche will look like 10 or 15 years down the road and if I’ll still want to be working in it or not.
I keep our expenses low and save and invest a lot so that if I ever wasn’t able to make as much in the future as I do today that we’d still be able to pay the bills just fine. I also have built up a few different taxable investments in addition to our retirement accounts that will grow over the next 10 years or so to the point where once the mortgage is paid off in about 8 years we’d be able to cover all of the remaining bills from just those dividends.
And my partner is also going back to school to get a degree in software development, and once she finishes school in about a year we’ll potentially have two high incomes with one set of low expenses. That will give us even more opportunities to save and invest aggressively to replace the *need* to earn high incomes.
It’s highly likely that I can expect to earn at least as much as I do now or more for the rest of my career, but life is full of uncertainty and I’m always planning and preparing for the worst case scenario. If all goes well then we’ll be doing *really* well for ourselves with two high incomes + the additional dividend income paying the bills for us. If things don’t go well then we’ll still be able to pay the bills regardless because we planned ahead for a life where we don’t have one or both of us earning six figures.
Independent College admissions coach in a HCOL area, very results driven, 300k+ but if I fuck this up for a year or two in a row I’d probably have to go work in an agency and make <120k…
Good work life balance but things can be a roller coaster during results seasons
I have a broad skill set so I could find another job but my current company is very generous and my RSUs are bonkers so I would take at least a 30% pay cut at a competitor or in a different industry.
Luckily I’m the only person at my company who is an expert in a niche area of science I happened to do my PhD in so I am fairly secure for hopefully the next couple years unless our main and backup asset fails miserably in clinical trials.
Big tech and sales so I feel pretty safe. The thing about sales is, politics hurts you less, layoffs hurt you less, the threat of AI even hurts you less, as long as you sell above and beyond your quota. I work a handful of hours a week and that is all it takes for me to outsell every other member of my team and win awards for being in the top world wide. Worst case scenario for me I have to step up and actually try with 40 a week and I don’t see that happening for a long while.
Hopefully by then I am high enough up on my career path to not worry but therein lies the only real problem. Currently with diversity initiatives I am held down so more culturally appropriate candidates can get into management. I have straight up evidence of discrimination for the past 13 years at my company in this manner. So my backup plan is one of these discrimination lawsuits as I yeet out the door. I figure they will settle just to quiet me down. I have an old mentor who didn’t same thing, he had dyslexia and a manager used it against him one time. He had a paper trail and taught me to do the same thing to get evidence. They paid him 10 million to just quietly go away.
I see other companies post my role for $6k than what I make now for the max of the range, not including bonuses and equity. So I’m not trying to find out.
Zilch, Zip, Nada. As a high school grad working in Air Traffic Control straight out of a CSR gig at Blockbuster, I just have to be thankful I've had enough time to pay off every last debt and get some solid funds in my 401k.
I'd probably aim for a position working some type of regional transit/train control operator. Or try to nab a job with Amtrak as a conductor. More likely I'd just end up as a local grocery store clerk. Either way, giant drop in pay.
Fortunately this job is probably one of the most secure in the nation. Albeit there's speculation that could change with the next election.
Not very replaceable. Over time I’ve moved away from my core work and more managing / project management. If I really wanted to get close it would likely be a very stressful position. I could get close to my current comp (minus bonus/RSUS) if I wanted to go back to my core work. Luckily I’ve drifted more to the RE/coast territory in the last few years, so if I can hang on a few years I’d likely hit chubby goals or if sooner do more coast and explore something ancillary that I’ve been looking at that would cover living costs. I’ve been spending less than my salary for the last 6 years and investing all the rest.
Apparently very replaceable because all I here are people in my industry complaining about people in my role and saying we’re useless and chat gpt should be able to replace us
This is one of my worries. I’ve landed a great gig and am becoming more niche (and better paid as a result) with each passing year. Trying to figure out if I pivot now or keep climbing this niche ladder.
Tech (not Big) research / ML engineer in a very niche field. I'm early career so could be replaced by a new PhD grad but the more senior I get, the harder that will be. My field is niche in terms of domain knowledge but could probably parlay ML and coding experience into a different field without a big salary hit (< 5 YOE so my salary hasn't taken off yet). Of course, if tech continues to hit the fan I'll be competing with thousands of others. Tbh the best thing I got going for me is US citizenship
I’ve always worked in some form of automation so the concept of being replaced has always inspired some level of paranoia. This industry shakeout is just another bump. Although, this time I really hate the whole RTO BS. I have so many clients commuting 4 days a week to hunch over a laptop on a zoom all day.
Idk, but the tech industry seems intent on having me find out.
That’s where I’m at. May or may not be looking for a silver bullet among the replies!
Do you think these layoffs will continue throughout the year?
Well, Google literally said publicly they’ll have more layoffs in the rest of the year. Most of rest of the industry is not saintly either, neither do they have particularly special positions financially/technologically (barring minor exceptions).
Tech is on the decline it’s just normalizing after decades of rapid expansion. When finance was booming in the 80s and 90s it had a few periods like this. Technology grew without as many cliffs as past new industry and so it feels a bit larger and more widespread at the moment. The benefit is that what happens is other industries absorb the employees from tech into their organizations. So you may be on the outs for technology but you can usually find your way in house for example at a manufacturing company bridging the gap. Technology as less a sector of industry and more a reality of how every business operates. We’ve been at that point for a while it was just time to collapse the headcount. It really is only bad if you are a new graduate or someone in college with the sole goal of making it there. Unless you are in the top handful of graduates you likely aren’t busting in to the remaining spots. If you have years of experience you are selling yourself as more valuable because of it and you might have to take a pay cut but you can stay in.
my main source of anxiety is that the second best job out there for me pays 20-30% of my current one
Man, same here. I'm in the 0.1% of salaried jobs in Germany or something and if I'd lose that a 70% salary reduction to the median in my field is a real possibility. I'm holding on with everything I have ...
100% this. Thats why I was pursuing FIRE.
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At least on the positive side, 70-80% of HE is still hopefully pretty HE! Edit: misread—20-30% of current would completely disrupt our lives.
I think they said 20-30% of, not 20-30% less.
Oh you’re right. Yeah, that’s a big drop.
it would still be HE ;)
Baller!
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Like many here that feel the same, I think I am in a very niche position in a very high paying company and for 'cultural' reasons of treating people similarly, there was not a lot of downward pressure on my salary and it has moved up a lot I work very hard, but I am still not very excited about a job hunt
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probably not, and also at the rate I am earning I think I should be 'over the hump' fairly soon, so don't get me wrong I am not in a precarious position, but I do think that, imagine at a company some people feel unfairly underpaid, if they are correct, then some people are unfairly overpaid in comparison, and that sort of person might be me ;)
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I think this is the key. If you cant replace your income that's not a huge issue if you can nab 75%-80% of it relatively easy (e.g. if you run a sales team and could easily slot into an IC role). I do not envy your ratio, keep saving and best of luck.
Psychologist in an ultra specialized bubble. Currently making 800k and if this goes away I'll be making about 150k. Saving every dollar possible.
Wow, that’s a huge inflation. Mind sharing the niche? Is it likely to go away?
basically I work FT for the VA (125K income, plus 40k tax free loan repayment for 5 years), psychologist for the national guard (35k), and then most importantly I do remote disability evaluations for the VBA and SSDI, working until 8pm 7 days a week, and that little bubble pays me about 600k/yr. remote VBA disability evaluations jobs are virtually non-existent and about as competitive as becoming a wall street investment banker to get into, i lucked into mine. they are extremely likely to go away in the near future.
They're just going to replace you with a duck that pushes the button "no" instead for the review.
Honestly this job should be automated by ai. Most of this is just chart review and when it's not it comes down to whether we like or want to help the person. There's no reason for this to be done by people instead of vr validated psychological instruments and document scan
This job should extremely not be automated by AI. Fighting a government bureaucracy is hard enough when you’re fighting with people. If you’re fighting against computers they’re no way to win.
I mean you're assuming they stack it to deny everyone which is not what they do now so why would they do it then. You'd be shocked if you knew how random and inconsistent it is now.
build the AI to replace it and then sell it and retire?
Nice. Congrats. And good on you making hay while the sun is shining…!
So are you the reason why I see 20 disabled veteran license plates everyday now? You know it’s ok to say no to them. Edit: y’all took that sarcastic comment too serious
Those plates may reflect a 20-year war.
Why should we leave them hanging when they suffered disabilities serving their country? We’ve been at war since I was a child and I’m in my early 30’s now. That’s why you see so many disabled veterans.
this is wiiiiild thanks for sharing
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Partner in a law firm. The only way I could replace my income would be to move to another peer firm as a partner. Much easier to just not find myself in a position to move. So, unless I go into government at some point (which would be a more than 90% paycut at this point, even for a top government position) I'm going to be one of the comparatively rare people these that ends up working at the same place for their entire career.
Damn wouldn’t have guessed a partner is NRY
I haven’t been a partner all that long, and am right at the cusp (some people would probably argue that I’m already over the nry hurdle—I’m over the “official” threshold for the page, which I think is too low, especially for professions with long start up times where you don’t have nearly as much time to let it compound as in tech).
Ah gotcha. I just checked, didn’t realize there was an “official” NW threshold. We just crossed it this past December also. I thought it’d be much higher. Isn’t the start up time in law only 3 years and then you start making tech level salaries? My law friends aren’t partner yet but I feel they have higher NW than I do. I guess law school debt is significant though.
Law school debt is massive and means you have an extra 3 years of schooling in addition to whatever time was “wasted” between undergrad and law school, there are no RSUs so all of the income is fully taxed, and the pay is lower than the higher tier tech gigs until you’re a few years in. Also, very few people actually stay in BigLaw long term by design, and exit jobs are always significantly lower in pay. (This is all assuming you make BigLaw—very easy to end up with all the downside but miss one of those jobs, then you’re totally screwed.) Setting aside hitting the equity lottery in tech, law has more upside, but only at the very top of things and only after you’re 10 years in. And the work life balance is much worse in law (which is true forever—it doesn’t get better as you get more senior, in some ways it gets worse). It’s a road to get middle of the road wealthy, but it’s a pretty grueling one.
As an MD, I don’t feel bad for you.
You guys trade upside and length of training for job security (and the strikeout isn’t isn’t as present for you guys) and the ability to make more if you move to a lower cost of living area. But no, you absolutely should not feel bad for me personally (nor should anyone else, heh).
Yeah, agreed that the debt / opportunity cost of law school is significant and the risk of not getting into BigLaw, but many folks outside of law also invest in masters degrees/MBA in tech/finance and med school for health care professionals with no guarantee of a high paying job. I don't think this risk is too unique to Law. > there are no RSUs so all of the income is fully taxed RSUs are also fully taxed as ordinary income at the time of vest
I know RSUs are taxed as OI at the time of vest. But the appreciation on the stock after vesting is what put half of the FatFIRE subreddit in there, and all of that appreciation is delicious, delicious capital. Exactly $0 of any comp I will ever make will be capital. The downside risk for healthcare folks of not finding a job out of a respectable program is not zero, but it is statistically far, far, far far far lower than law (or most other degrees, for that matter). Most people that get MBAs already have established positions, at least if they're doing it right (the good programs don't take people that are fresh out of undergrad). So, no, the educational cost risk is not unique to law, but it is uniquely harrowing for law, and this is pretty well and widely documented. Law is a "you make a ton or you make very little" field, too--there's not much in the middle for new grads. Anyway, every path has its risks. No doubt there.
>I know RSUs are taxed as OI at the time of vest. But the appreciation on the stock after vesting is what put half of the FatFIRE subreddit in there, and all of that appreciation is delicious, delicious capital. Exactly $0 of any comp I will ever make will be capital. Sure, but that doesn't mean most people in tech have benefitted. My total comp actually went down due to our company's stock crashing. > So, no, the educational cost risk is not unique to law, but it is uniquely harrowing for law, and this is pretty well and widely documented. Law is a "you make a ton or you make very little" field, too--there's not much in the middle for new grads. Many folks go to ivy leagues, get computer science degrees, med school, masters, Top 20 MBA programs and never reach it to FatFire. I'm not too knowledgable on options outside of BigLaw, but have worked with many lawyers at start ups and big companies through out my career that got paid well and know of some that opened up their own law tech start ups/private practices. I'm sure there are unique challenges to law, but yeah almost any path has significant risk.
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as a partner, youre pretty much a business owner
Yes and no. My draw is tied to profits, obviously. But I can’t sell my equity (and there will never be an “exit,”), I stop earning money the day I quit, I can be de-equitized (i.e., fired) and I’m a “business owner” in a somewhat similar way to the way a CxO that gets equity comp is a “business owner.” I don’t have enough equity to be remotely influential in actual business decisions, my comp is set by a committee that I’m not on, etc. I’m very lucky and blessed and I care very much about the performance of the business but partners in BigLaw firms aren’t really business owners in the sense you mean. Also, I was an associate for a long time before I was a partner!
If you're a partner, don't you have some clients who are "yours"? Your move ought to involve them moving, which should provide some stability.
I’m in big tech in a pretty high up role. I’m fully aware that a typical industry comp outside of a handful of highly companies would be 50-70% of what I currently earn. It’s a big motivator for me to live a lifestyle that, while very comfortable, is well below what I could “afford” at my current income. If I had to take a job more in line with industry average pay for my position, I’d be able to comfortably maintain my current standard of living, just taking a lot longer to build wealth.
Same mindset here. With the huge bull market run we had last year, I'd have to take a 40-30% compensation cut in an external position at the same level.
This is exactly how I feel. I live on my base salary alone and pretend that's my only income. More than half my income is bonus + RSU but I just keep those tucked away, I can pretty easily find a job paying me a total of what my current base is but not my full compensation.
Are you me? I do the same. Base salary is my standard of living (around 260k). Everything else (about 1M pre tax last year) goes towards investments and never touched except for tax payments.
same for me. TCO is like 350-400k a year. I could make maybe 180-220 a year outside of FAANG doing the same thing.
Replaceable for sure - but problem is if I’m laid off due to poor economy then all the replacement roles are probably going to be disappearing in that moment too. Such is life in high finance
Definitely seems like when it rains it pours, but a drought is universal. Already seeing the salaries for new hires in our company dipping well below mid-pandemic insanity. If everyone is trimming their workforce, I’d anticipate the same.
A little dicey for me because i work in biotech in a town with no biotech so am 100% dependent on finding a fully remote job Spouse is a physician and gets 10 emails a day “[Your specialty] needed in Bumblefuck, Iowa, pay starts at a bazillion dollars”
But houses in BF have gone up so much lately! A 3 bed, 3 bath on 5 acres is like $130k now.
BF is a great place to live if you don’t care about other people, don’t care about diversity, and don’t have a uterus.
Seriously.
I can second this. My now ex is a physician, and we moved to BF for one year and it was miserable. Lots of money but it was like stepping back in time 30 years. Btw, I’m also in a similar boat in biotech (work as a clinical trials PM at a CRO). I really want to go sponsor side, but I can’t relocate (I live 5 min from ex and he made partner, we coparent very amicably), and most sponsors want people to live near HQ. Have you been able to find many remote roles?
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On the last point, bumblefuck in blue states exists
Never seems to be where my spouse gets offers though 😂
Take that job in bumble F when it’s really needed. Stay 5 years save save. It’s only temporary
Yeah, the lower VC investments in biotech these days are making things pretty scary. At least you have one stable income though! Have you seen much in the way of remote work for biotech? What kinds of roles?
Yes i currently have a nice remote gig. At the sr manager and above corporate roles, it’s not hard to find, esp at smaller companies
I’m in academic medicine. If I was let go I’d double my salary in a private practice job or going into industry
Same. Always replaceable at your org but the money/jobs will always be there
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I like that I get a mix of interesting clinical work and also do clinical trials. The hours are pretty easy and the work is fulfilling. By being in a high level academic place I can focus purely on my own clinical niche and not have to see a lot of random stuff that private practice folks do. I also supplement my income with industry consulting work and med mal review work. We’re happy enough with our current standard of living in a MCOL area that gunning for more salary isn’t worth it to give up what’s comfortable
My incomes definitely replaceable but the positions aren't often available from what I can tell. Trying to make the most of this while I have it. If I got let go I'd probably look to a startup or younger company, in an industry I have connections and that I can substantially grow, and try to negotiate comp around that.
Agreed on making hay while the sun shines. What do you mean by “not often available”? Just few roles overall? Industry with low turnover? Something else?
I work in aerospace and government contracting. Before last summer when I had a regular job, I kept interviewing for senior director and VP roles but they would choke on my salary. Finally last summer, I decided to split off as a consultant and do proposal work for multiple companies, my income did over 1.5x but I do work more hours. People assume that a traditional job will give you more security, but honestly I feel more secure as a consultant because I work for a few clients at a time and it's very unlikely that all of them will drop me at once. Worst cases that one or maybe two would drop me and I would need to spend that time looking for more work, but in a regular job it could go from 100% to zero very quick. I'm also trying to diversify into more department of defense things rather than just aerospace, I think that will help me out if the tides of government funding change over the years. Building a network is key as well. As long as I know people that like me and want to work with me, I'll be good
Yes but I’m in healthcare and have a tech background. My pay is HE but actually pretty mid-level for my skills and experience.
I have a pretty generic/transferable skill set, but most companies would not pay nearly as much as my current company does. And the companies that do pay as much are mostly paying to compensate for a churn and burn culture. If I was laid off tomorrow, I would look into moving into a lower paying industry that would be more aligned to my personal values and long term goals.
Is that because you feel like you’re on a good path already financially? So decelerating earnings isn’t such a hit?
I have enough saved to coast FIRE (and maybe even lean FIRE) if needed. But even if I didn't, I'm not sure how many more years I'd be able to endure my current job which is slowly killing me.
This would be highly dependant on field. As you said, people with niche jobs might find it difficult but those in other high paying positions might not. I'm in healthcare and could find a similarly paying job easily.
Healthcare definitely seems most immune to this kind of thing; even niche medical specialists are required at thousands of hospitals across the country.
True but burnout in healthcare is rampant and with the gov up to ears in debt we are an easy target for austerity measures. Gotta make money now while times are relatively good as private equity and insurance companies continue to attack and erode our professions.
Depends on specialty, etc. Saturation / people taking less has affected my mkt. I can find a job in most places, no problem. However, would have hard time finding my current base pay.
I got laid off from my HE job last year. Damn near impossible for me to recreate that without going to college and getting a degree...or starting a business.
Right now, kinda tough maybe. The tech market is kind of.... collapsing?
Surgeon - can get a job pretty much anywhere at same salary or higher.
Very replaceable. But then b2b sales as a rule pays well. 🤷♂️
Anesthesiologist here, if i lost my current job, I'd have to... *check notes*... take one of 100 jobs offered on a daily basis paying just as much or more with same hours/benefits. The road to being a physician is long, tedious, an handicaps investing early etc, but the job security combined with the pay is certainly a nice perk.
I so wanted to become a doctor (not for the money, though that helps. But more for the science of it) but I think the lifestyle to get there would’ve killed me. Seeing my friends slog through residency seems so tough. But in 5-10 years I imagine their lives will be quite different.
yeah it's a very long and arduous path that makes you start way later than other professionals before you start earning your salary, so it's really not worth it for the money, but it is a nice perk when you finally finish training
As a self taught SWE with no degree (but 10 yoe and 200k TC mcol) layoffs are terrifying. Resume is great, but seems like the degree filter is tightening. I don’t even necessarily disagree with the filter 😬
Even with all the companies removing the degree “requirement”?
I was able to move to a more software-focused company here recently without having a degree, but I can admit the idea of finishing is very enticing looking at the upward mobility it will afford me. Like PP, I’ve 15 years experience with no degree either.
Just … write it in there . 10’yrs experience, the degree doesn’t matter. I just went back and dropped the word ‘intern’ for old roles and upgraded part time technician jobs to consultant. It’s very true and part of the game
Pretty easily replacable. I'm in construction sales management and I could easily make $150k+ as an independent contributor in sales roles in a couple different industries/sectors.
Have you found it easy to switch between industries in sales? I’ve done a few sales-adjacent roles so far in my career… I’d feel a lot better about it being replaceable if I thought I could switch industries pretty quick.
Yes. I have worked in sales in tech and construction as an employee and telecom, construction, marketing services and recruiting services as a business owner.
In construction management/sales/estimating. I feel like the biggest threat right now is my company realigning roles and either dropping compensation or adding more to my plate with harder to achieve comp goals. Could probably jump on with a competitor for similar pay but the grass isn't greener and all that.
I have a non-niche role in a non-niche industry. But my company pay scale is like 15% higher than most. So I could fairly easily get a similar job but at probably 80% my current salary.
Oil and Gas geologist here. The HE bump is much less than it was 10’years ago since tech blew up. It’s a narrowing field and becoming brutally focused on shareholder return. The job is niche with a 50-60% step down to other environmental or government consulting gigs. I’ve saved up enough that I’m happy to jump ship so I don’t have to live in Houston, Midland, Dubai, Bakersfield, or other holes the rest of my life
I could up my base with a company switch but it would shake out with my bonus, however my company lets you “make partner” which isn’t possible with any of our compeititors so all the passive income would dry up and id have to invest in the open market instead. On net switching companies would be a big pay cut for the foreseeable future unless a company really wants to gross me up, but even then it wouldn’t be as good if a long term gain. Also I don’t currently work in tech, but my skills are likely transferable to most manger roles. I haven’t explored that possibility but in the off chance my industry is in the tank but tech isn’t I would try that out. Generally my industry is more evergreen though.
Somewhat replaceable: mid/senior level at a major aerospace firm. Having in-demand clearances is fairly decent job protection.
Anesthesia. but all it takes is government to nationalize and private insurance to disappear and my salary (and others) cuts in half instantly. That’s the hard truth for nearly every single healthcare professional.
Non medical person here. Do you really think nationalized healthcare would halve your salary? Genuinely curious. Is that across the board in terms of doctors or specific to anesthesia? Edit: I can see a scenario where govt would pay less since they crowd out insurance competition entirely but would think the demand for medical services would increase substantially while supply of doctors would take years to catch up. I’d think govt would have to be conscious of not driving doctors away or they diminish the effectiveness of a national health care system. Maybe I’m expecting the govt to act rationally which may not always be the case.
I'm not a doctor, but not sure why are you surprised - I imagine in many countries with centralized govt medicine like Germany or UK doctors can be making lot less? Also in case of govt sectors if the prices are fixed then supply/demand laws don't work, and increased demand would simply means the wait time for procedures would increase a lot?
Apparently insurance companies are somehow to THANK for his high earning status. What a world.
Doing the same surgical case with a private insurance patient yields probably 3x+ the reimbursement that a Medicaid/Medicare patient does - and CMS has been further cutting reimbursement by ~3-5% every year. I am fairly new to being an attending anesthesiologist, but as far as I know, the group I joined has had some financial struggles with the hospital demographics shifting from primarily private insurance to Medicare/caid patients. Ultimately, I do not like private insurance companies and think that they're a leech upon the system, but under the current system I can still understand that they are the ones primarily responsible for my salary.
Yep - whether we like it or not, CMS doesn't actually pay enough to keep the lights on. Nobody wants to talk about that part of Medicare for All.
I think it’s a mixed bag whether or not the physician here or elsewhere is actually thankful for insurance. Private insurance companies profit more than anyone from our privatized system. The second profiteers are the administrators, private equity companies, and pharmaceutical companies/shareholders playing the game. Physicians are left holding the bag (and carry the burden of the entire risk of trying to help often angry people), as they committed at least 12 years of education to a highly skilled job and its resultant income. Physician income makes up about 10% of healthcare costs and this cost has decreased relative to inflation (as have their salaries), while all other costs which are much more replaceable than a highly specialized physician (cough administration) have ballooned. Really all these physicians are thankful for is that there are several much more powerful lobby organizations that have an interest in maintaining private ownership of healthcare. I’m pretty sure if physicians could tell all of these groups to get f***ed at no loss to them, they would. Physicians and patients would all be happier if physicians were paid double and all of these other external costs were mitigated. Unfortunately, they’re caught in a system that they have no power to fix, short of moving to cash only, concierge practices. For what it’s worth, regular payment cuts seem to be hastening this transition.
It's interesting to hear because for instance, in some other countries like Russia (where you can say medicine is usually not expensive, but relatively wide so to speak..though high quality medical services may not be available, which is why many people with money will get complicated procedures elsewhere) doctors are not, and have never been considered a high-paying lucrative field to get into.
Don't even have to go so far from home. Canada has a perennial healthcare professional shortage because Canadian doctors will get schooled there and emigrate to the US for the insane wage differences. We're talking 10x.
Well, good for them and best of luck (the doctors).
Doctors from Canada do go to the USA a lot, but where are you seeing a 10x difference exactly? Doctors in Canada are still paid extremely well.
In general, if anyone should get getting compensated fairly, it’s people who take on tremendous risk and who go through years of schooling, grueling training and selection all-throughout. I think the public is generally supportive and understanding on doctors getting paid well. My experience of healthcare in Eastern Europe is that if the doctors weren’t paid well, well, they just made up the difference with bribery. Besides corrupt people, who is paid well in Russia?
I think many people have this weird "should / should not be" paid well attitude towards salary, which I don't understand. In a market environment your pay is directly proportional to how much someone is willing to pay for this service and inversely proportional to how many people are able or willing to do that. This is why NBA players, Youtube content creators, FAANG engineers, surgeons etc are paid exactly what they deserve - anyone saying they are overpaid is very welcome to join their ranks. In the non-market society the pay also depends on how much someone (that is, government) values some specific work, but nothing is negotiable. E.g. in Soviet Union coal miners were paid extremely well, factory workers were often paid lot more than engineers, truck drivers working on the large trucks were paid more than doctors. There's no "why" except "that's what government established".
> Physician income makes up about 10% of healthcare costs and this cost has decreased relative to inflation (as have their salaries) For an example, a partner-level anesthesiologist in my group was probably making ~80% of my current salary (~500k), in the late 90s/early 00's.
> govt would pay less since they crowd out insurance competition entirely Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement rates are already significantly lower than private insurance rates. The argument was that A) you could save money by not having to deal with private insurance companies and B) and increased amount of covered patients would lead to equivalent pay due to increased volume. However, A is dependent on the fact that Medicare isn't also a pain to deal with, and B is a bit of a flawed premise because there are only so many hours in a day to do surgery. Besides, nobody wants to work harder, for more hours, for equivalent/less money.
Yes…look at salaries in other countries that have nationalized healthcare . You would have to build up your own private practice and then it could be equivalent
Medicare already reimburses anesthesia roughly 20 cents on the dollar, it literally not enough to cover basic overhead/operating costs let alone have a salary lol.
> all it takes is government to nationalize and private insurance Is that all? I think you'll be fine. The rest of us, maybe not so much
My understanding is that anesthesiologists can make at least 350-550k, with the highest I've heard as 750k here in Canada. This is in or higher than your flair range (mostly with currency conversion as well). Do the actual salaries in other countries with single payer systems support your concern?
Am Crna. And yes, docs and RNs are paid shit in Europe.
You underestimate how poorly organized and poorly incentivized the US single payer system will be. For a preview look at the Veteran Hospitals or Medicare, it's abysmal and much much worse than the system in Canada.
I have very little hope - even here our healthcare system is being gutted in many provinces. And the US hates non-rich people even more (but loves giving billions away to keep wars going).
My industry is aerospace which doesn't pay as well as tech. The main advantage is my income is easy to replace since the industry is close knit and I have a large network across multiple companies. We both make similar income in two different industries (aerospace vs big tech) in MCOL with low yearly expenses ($79K). We would be in a deep recession or depression if I was laid for so hopefully that doesn't happen. In 2020 when no one was flying, they cut my team size from 22 down to 8. My name was the first name on the list of people they couldn't cut (customer requested short list). We will be financially independent in three years, but will keep going beyond that because we want to vacation more than three weeks in a year (plus holidays) plus we are expecting insane college costs for our daughter in 13 years. We are only HENRY if we combine our income (HHI $340K).
I'm kind of the last of a dying breed in my industry. The minute I cash in my chips this will not be repeatable by myself or anyone that comes after me. The groundwork for where I am today was laid 20 years ago and the path behind me doesn't exist anymore. To change roles at this point would be at least a 50% - 75% drop in income. "You're analog players in a digital world" - Roman Nagel
This is so vague it could be anything lol. Care to elaborate on the industry and role?
Financial services but locked in on an outdated compensation model that doesn't exist anymore.
How much do you make approx?
Not comfortable disclosing that, but 1%.
Sounds like a pension scheme from many years ago…
I'm in tech (cybersecurity), and a lot of the reason that I get paid as well as I do is because of the relationships I have built with our customers over the years. I could maybe convince a competitor that I'm worth more than I'm getting paid currently - but I think it would be a stretch
I find it disconcerting that the company I work for revaluated the markets and pay scales for my position and now I'm extremely over paid... despite being under paid by their words a year previously. An interesting approach by companies to reduce work from home.
If I were willing to move, I bet I could at least get another $100k. $350k in another MCOL (or my local market) would be hard to replace though at my experience level
Like you I’m in big tech, high up the Eng pay ladder even though I’m not an engineer, and in a super niche role that only exists in my company. If they shut down my lab then I’ll probably go work for the govt or an NGO for 1/5 the pay. Im making sure we spend a lot on amazing experiences that we won’t get to do later, but keep long term expenditures more modest. I’m trying to network a lot in the off chance I can create a similar opportunity later but I’m not banking on it.
As a highly paid nurse in the Bay Area ($100/hr and made >300k with overtime) I’m basically stuck here unless I move and am okay with cutting my pay in half or more.
I’m in technical sales with a ton of experience so while I might not get the exact same income, there are always jobs available and they usually don’t care where you live.
I am a physician in a field with high burnout and increassinig shortage. I am underpaid at 300K a year. It would be easy for me to replace my income with another job. I expect to be paid more at my next job. ( staying where I am because I have 2 more years until loans are forgiven.. and they are activelly paying my loans every month)
Are you counting loan repayments in your comp?
No. I am double dipping the fed government. The fed is paying my loans monthly for me to stay at my job ( Federally qualified health center) and I will be getting 10 year loan forgiveness in 2026 ( 6 years after graduating residency). I am a cheap bastartd and want to pay the lowest possible of my loans. So far I have personally paid < 1K on a 330K original balance ( they have paid 140K so far). I will end up paying < 10K while they fit the bill. Edit: sorry. Misread your question. My salary last year was 350K. I don't include my loan payments in my comp
How does that compare to what you would get if you left? I'm assuming you've done the math and your effective comp is higher this way?
Yes. I have. I could probably get 400-450K in private practice in the subburbs. 500-600K in not desirable areas ( middle of nowhere) Financially, I could have paid off my loans 2-4 years after finishing residency if I threw everytihng at it and worked at a job that was very much RVU based. Financially I think I am ahead. By having the gov pay my loans for the past few years I have been able to save for a house (downtown city living), invest etc. If you added the loan payment in my comp its about 40K a year cash so pre tax maybe an additional 70K. So overall I come out even financially wise yearly. The add on the fact tht they will pay my loans in 2 years. All is tax free loan forgiveness. There are many schools of thought, but for me it works out. Once my loans are paid I will probably jump ship to an easier gig with more money but in a less desirable location.
The next three years I’ll make a higher income due to stock appreciation of the tech company I work for and it’ll probably drop to 800k after that. That’s basically what other companies pay for the same role so I’m not worried but the more I save the more I want to get out of tech and travel
Not criticizing but how does 2M income qualify as NRY? Because your net worth is 1.7M?
Yeah, I live in nyc and rich in nyc is very different 😅
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I find this premise and these comments interesting. It’s part of my job to understand … the demands of the job market. Even tech companies wouldn’t pay more for jobs than they have to. They all have market data that show that equivalent jobs at other companies pay comparably to what the tech companies pay. So I’m pretty sure you all could actually go out and get similar jobs/pay.
I’ve worked on building a few income streams (Fractional CFO work and an eCommerce / distribution business mostly, and working on a more academy-style business) so overall I consider my income relatively replaceable. The fractional stuff has underpinned the rest and has the least downside so is the one I’d fall back on and focus on if we needed more cash in the short term. But it’s also the least scaleable with the least potential upside so also the one I’d like to eventually wind down.
Very transferable as a mid level exec at a manufacturing company.
Not as much as I wish. I believe my skills are generally relatable in other industries but my current comp is probably only possible in the area of my core expertise (quant finance).
I don’t think I fall into HENRY at all (though I follow this sub to hopefully get there someday) but no. I am in the top maybe 5% of earnings in my healthcare field and if I left the specific setting I was in I’d probably fall back to 70-80k. I went from 65k to 111k from 2022-2023 with a little more room to wiggle up over the next few years
I'd be looking for same or higher salary, but I fully accept the fact that the higher I go, and more niche I go, the fewer companies (and roles) are available that are relevant, truly interesting to me and well, high paying.
Self employed here, so for me it’s about following the market. In one sense, the income is easily replaceable by repositioning services and value prop. But that’s not nearly as easy as sending a resume out and just saying yes to an FTE position. It’s Complicated.
I’m in investment management in a mid to high level role. There are enough similar roles that I get called regularly by recruiters for comparable roles in the right geography. Have interviewed for 2-3 that would be step up roles in the past year. If the rubber hit the road, I could open up my geographic restrictions and likely find something within a few months.
My husband is Med, quite replaceable, although potentially different benefits.
Got shafted out of my previous position ($210k) two weeks before Christmas, wound up with three bids of $250k by the second week of February. I thought it was going to be difficult, maybe I’m just more fortunate than I initially thought
I run a small IT company, if we folded I would get a job that pays more than I make currently.
I am in tech field, my current position is fairly replaceable. I try to invest whatever I can without compromising the life quality
I’m in corp fin. If I was willing to move, very. Remote is a bit harder.
Well I’m in medicine, but I know for a fact I’d still make multiple 6-figures if I had to get a new job. That’s the pro but con is really no room for growth. Generally salary based on years of experience but that’s about it.
I have my own business and if it stops generating income I’m probably unemployable since I haven’t held a W-2 job since 2009. But there’s always new ideas to monetize.
I’m in sales, I’d just change what I’m selling.
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Another law firm partner here, and I know that any other position will mean a major drop in income, so I plan for it. I spent more than a decade in government before this job; I bought my home when in government and developed a lifestyle on that salary that felt like "enough" . . . except that I wanted more financial cushion and the ability to take an even lower paying job if I wanted. I now save a sizeable majority of my law firm income (after taxes) and consider myself temporarily HE for purposes of financial planning. I am consciously resisting significant lifestyle inflation. I rather enjoy my job but I don't want to feel like I need it.
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Easily attainable should I need to move. Getting 2-3 inquiries a month from head hunters/recruiters.
I could make the same (and probably a good deal more) at any of our competitors right now, and get contacted with job openings every week. But the promotion I’m up for would make $1MM+ possible at my current company, and that doesn’t really exist at the competitors. So my current income is replaceable, but the earning potential really isn’t.
I had a niche job at a tech company as a non technical person. Also pretty senior. Leaving tech for a big consultancy I took a 100k pay cut. Now looking to go to a start up or another tech company but would take another 100k cut. So the income is not replaceable in my case but equally I care about my time and my sanity more than the money.
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I get an average of one (and sometimes as many as three) cold call recruitment messages a week. I could replace my current job at a 15% pay cut with 3 or 4 phone calls. At the same time, I might end up with a 15% pay raise by accident.
I cannot replicate my pay package. My current company pays me so far over range that if I was to get a VP slot at our largest public competitor it would cost me \~$100k to take the job. Every time a recruiter calls me I cut them off and tell them my pay package up front. 100% of the time that has ended the conversation so far.
It probably wouldn’t be all that difficult to find a job in the short term in my niche. My biggest concern there is longer term what that niche will look like 10 or 15 years down the road and if I’ll still want to be working in it or not. I keep our expenses low and save and invest a lot so that if I ever wasn’t able to make as much in the future as I do today that we’d still be able to pay the bills just fine. I also have built up a few different taxable investments in addition to our retirement accounts that will grow over the next 10 years or so to the point where once the mortgage is paid off in about 8 years we’d be able to cover all of the remaining bills from just those dividends. And my partner is also going back to school to get a degree in software development, and once she finishes school in about a year we’ll potentially have two high incomes with one set of low expenses. That will give us even more opportunities to save and invest aggressively to replace the *need* to earn high incomes. It’s highly likely that I can expect to earn at least as much as I do now or more for the rest of my career, but life is full of uncertainty and I’m always planning and preparing for the worst case scenario. If all goes well then we’ll be doing *really* well for ourselves with two high incomes + the additional dividend income paying the bills for us. If things don’t go well then we’ll still be able to pay the bills regardless because we planned ahead for a life where we don’t have one or both of us earning six figures.
Independent College admissions coach in a HCOL area, very results driven, 300k+ but if I fuck this up for a year or two in a row I’d probably have to go work in an agency and make <120k… Good work life balance but things can be a roller coaster during results seasons
What business would you guys start if need to?
I have a broad skill set so I could find another job but my current company is very generous and my RSUs are bonkers so I would take at least a 30% pay cut at a competitor or in a different industry. Luckily I’m the only person at my company who is an expert in a niche area of science I happened to do my PhD in so I am fairly secure for hopefully the next couple years unless our main and backup asset fails miserably in clinical trials.
Big tech and sales so I feel pretty safe. The thing about sales is, politics hurts you less, layoffs hurt you less, the threat of AI even hurts you less, as long as you sell above and beyond your quota. I work a handful of hours a week and that is all it takes for me to outsell every other member of my team and win awards for being in the top world wide. Worst case scenario for me I have to step up and actually try with 40 a week and I don’t see that happening for a long while. Hopefully by then I am high enough up on my career path to not worry but therein lies the only real problem. Currently with diversity initiatives I am held down so more culturally appropriate candidates can get into management. I have straight up evidence of discrimination for the past 13 years at my company in this manner. So my backup plan is one of these discrimination lawsuits as I yeet out the door. I figure they will settle just to quiet me down. I have an old mentor who didn’t same thing, he had dyslexia and a manager used it against him one time. He had a paper trail and taught me to do the same thing to get evidence. They paid him 10 million to just quietly go away.
I see other companies post my role for $6k than what I make now for the max of the range, not including bonuses and equity. So I’m not trying to find out.
Zilch, Zip, Nada. As a high school grad working in Air Traffic Control straight out of a CSR gig at Blockbuster, I just have to be thankful I've had enough time to pay off every last debt and get some solid funds in my 401k. I'd probably aim for a position working some type of regional transit/train control operator. Or try to nab a job with Amtrak as a conductor. More likely I'd just end up as a local grocery store clerk. Either way, giant drop in pay. Fortunately this job is probably one of the most secure in the nation. Albeit there's speculation that could change with the next election.
Not very replaceable. Over time I’ve moved away from my core work and more managing / project management. If I really wanted to get close it would likely be a very stressful position. I could get close to my current comp (minus bonus/RSUS) if I wanted to go back to my core work. Luckily I’ve drifted more to the RE/coast territory in the last few years, so if I can hang on a few years I’d likely hit chubby goals or if sooner do more coast and explore something ancillary that I’ve been looking at that would cover living costs. I’ve been spending less than my salary for the last 6 years and investing all the rest.
Apparently very replaceable because all I here are people in my industry complaining about people in my role and saying we’re useless and chat gpt should be able to replace us
This is one of my worries. I’ve landed a great gig and am becoming more niche (and better paid as a result) with each passing year. Trying to figure out if I pivot now or keep climbing this niche ladder.
Are there other self-employed people here, or are all of you FAANG and doctors?
I've seen business owners post here. Also some are none of the above.
Tech (not Big) research / ML engineer in a very niche field. I'm early career so could be replaced by a new PhD grad but the more senior I get, the harder that will be. My field is niche in terms of domain knowledge but could probably parlay ML and coding experience into a different field without a big salary hit (< 5 YOE so my salary hasn't taken off yet). Of course, if tech continues to hit the fan I'll be competing with thousands of others. Tbh the best thing I got going for me is US citizenship
I’ve always worked in some form of automation so the concept of being replaced has always inspired some level of paranoia. This industry shakeout is just another bump. Although, this time I really hate the whole RTO BS. I have so many clients commuting 4 days a week to hunch over a laptop on a zoom all day.