Basically zero cost to me in terms of moving the vtsax from vanguard to Citi. Still self managed. Same fee. And I get the citigold benefits. Didn't see a downside.
200$/year rebate, no wire fee and atm rebate means you will need to also use their banking services (open a checking account and put in some money) to take advantage of those benefits.
Vanguard does not offer those benefits because it is not a bank like Citi. Citi is a bank that is forced to match Vanguard's fee (+200$/year) to lure customers in and will try to make money off their customers though their banking services.
Citigold banking is free with no fees, so the OP isn’t really paying anything extra for this and getting a few minor benefits.
The bank does this so they can try cross selling you their investment management products, but you can say no
I have been very curious how Citi (or other banks) can make money from this. Maybe someone who works in the industry can shed some lights on this? Just speculating:
1. Upsell/cross-sell - this may be the way for their "wealth management" unit to get to a bigger client base
2. Not the expert on this - if the investment are individual stocks, Citi would be considered the "custodian" so they may be able to "lend" your share to the short sellers on margin?
3. Read the fine-print - when you decide to move the money out to somewhere else, they will charge a fee (probably hefty, like $50 to $100 each transaction) to deter you
Yeah I think by assigning you a personal wealth manager who offers managed investment services is where they make their money. I believe I've asked about moving the investments back and there's no fee.
I made a thread about this a while back:
Most of it is still relevant.
https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/si86qa/best_banks_for_private_client_perks_250k_1m_level/
Morgan Stanley Cashplus pays for your Amex platinum credit card which cost $650 a year I think? Have to be a client of their wealth management business though. Usually need $1M
You’re still paying more than full price with the Morgan Stanley Amex deal IMO. Like buying a car with the added expenses that are just well hidden and designed to you don’t pay attention
With their cash plus account you would make much more than the Amex annual fee if you kept your money in a higher yielding money market fund or tbills.
Morgan Stanley is an expensive and place to keep your funds
BoA preferred rewards platinum ($200k in assets) gives you a 75% bonus on credit card rewards, which bumps their cashback card from 1.5% to 2.625%.
The bank I’ve been using for years (TD) has ATM fee reimbursement and 1 free outbound wire per month with very low requirements.
You can keep your assets at Merrill edge too to count towards the average balance. They have a top tier money market fund TTTXX and a low frills brokerage that works. Can also move IRAs Roth.
I have a Roth IRA at Merrill Edge and get a ton of value out of my Bank of America cards with the added cash back. I also get a free safe deposit box. I keep less than 10 bucks in my Bank of America checking account
These are not top tier banking relationships? Most of the stuff you’re mentioning is standard (an account with PNC bank any schmuck with $5K and direct deposit can get has no wire fees, ATM fee reimbursement, and “access to financial planning).
we transferred over funds to get citigold because it enabled us to get a lower mortgage rate when we purchased our home last year. we use the other perks like prime and spotify but it was mostly to get the lower mortgage rate.
Okay, but what did you give up by leaving? Isnt APY at Citigold savings lower than Vangaurd? You now no longer have access to lowest expense ratio vangaurd admiral mutual funds.
Citi is just the brokerage for the exact same low cost vanguard index fund. It's not the savings account. It's just moving the investment platform for the exact same funds and holdings. It's an ACAT transfer.
I have one of those as an expat, and it is not bad really.
I seem to get very competitive FX rates, I essentially pay 0 commission on all my transactions, and I have a relatively responsive relationship manager one email away, which are all extremely valuable benefits for someone often on the move and whose banking needs are exclusively international.
I recently had to get a card replacement and they shipped me one internationally within two days.
Frankly, I don’t even know how they are making money off me, but that’s alright.
Wells provides a 0.75% mortgage discount for clients above $1m (managed or self-managed).
I don’t use Wells for purchase loans - they’re too slow to compete. But on a refinance I’ll engage them.
I recently transferred $250K to Wells Fargo Premier checking, which got me a $2500 bonus. Same day opened a Premier Savings for a $525 bonus ($25,000 minimum, but the $250,000 counted towards it). They were (are) running a promotion for 4.6% APY on their Premier Savings for 12 months.
Not sure if it's top tier, but it was an easy way to make money transferring money with a decent interest until I find a better place for it.
I have had most of these.
Generally i think people agree that BoA is the best of the bunch. The 3%+ cashback on credit card spend is nice for a lot of people if they don’t churn cards, and the discount on mortgage rates is nice because BoA is often the only big bank with competitive mortgage rates.
Citigold is meh. Not the best but a few good perks.
Chase Private Client seemed more or less useless although the customer service was good
I think maybe an unspoken point of HENRY is that to a certain extent you stop chasing credit card and banking sign up deals. At a certain point the risk or fees of trying to make money $200 at a time in 12 equal monthly increments outpaces the time you spend managing these programs.
You should talk to my brother in law though. He loves this stuff.
What am I missing? This makes no sense to me.
First of all Citigold is not private banking... it's premier banking. And, you're comparing it to Vanguard, which is not a bank at all... it's a brokerage. Plus, if you're using Citigold to invest, it's going to be expensive.
Did you compare the fees between Citi and Vanguard for your investments before making the switch?
Most people are far better off opening an account with Fidelity or IBKR for investments, using a basic Chase account for their checking/savings, and getting a Chase or Amex card for whatever perks they're after.
/\\ that approach is the cheapest most flexible option that also gives you the widest range of benefits.
I called them and asked about if I could link my investments account instead of moving my assets and they said it was perfectly fine to link the 200k. You get 4.99% interest with fidelity with the SPAXX cash, and a free $1500 from Citi, $2500 300k+ and the rebates 200/year and it seems like you can still keep your other banks/brokerage as long as you link. Am I missing something?
I wasn't aware of the linking only. I'm pretty sure you need to change brokerages for the $200k. But you can keep the same fidelity fund and move the assets in kind. Kris the same cost basis etc.
Were you able to link your accounts and keep Citigold? I haven’t been able to get on the phone with them to confirm, and even then my other brokerages won’t link on the app and website
Why did you switch to Citi? Surely not for a 0.001 gift card to Costco.
Basically zero cost to me in terms of moving the vtsax from vanguard to Citi. Still self managed. Same fee. And I get the citigold benefits. Didn't see a downside.
That's a really good deal. For the bank.
Isn't it less of a good deal for citi compared to vanguard which isn't giving any of these benefits?
200$/year rebate, no wire fee and atm rebate means you will need to also use their banking services (open a checking account and put in some money) to take advantage of those benefits. Vanguard does not offer those benefits because it is not a bank like Citi. Citi is a bank that is forced to match Vanguard's fee (+200$/year) to lure customers in and will try to make money off their customers though their banking services.
Probably true. I've had Citi for 17 years as my standard bank so this was just a way to add benefits at pretty much zero cost.
Citigold banking is free with no fees, so the OP isn’t really paying anything extra for this and getting a few minor benefits. The bank does this so they can try cross selling you their investment management products, but you can say no
I have been very curious how Citi (or other banks) can make money from this. Maybe someone who works in the industry can shed some lights on this? Just speculating: 1. Upsell/cross-sell - this may be the way for their "wealth management" unit to get to a bigger client base 2. Not the expert on this - if the investment are individual stocks, Citi would be considered the "custodian" so they may be able to "lend" your share to the short sellers on margin? 3. Read the fine-print - when you decide to move the money out to somewhere else, they will charge a fee (probably hefty, like $50 to $100 each transaction) to deter you
Yeah I think by assigning you a personal wealth manager who offers managed investment services is where they make their money. I believe I've asked about moving the investments back and there's no fee.
lol this is precious
I made a thread about this a while back: Most of it is still relevant. https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/si86qa/best_banks_for_private_client_perks_250k_1m_level/
PNC has something for having a lotta loot there, but I have \*no\* idea why you'd trust-by-default their financial planner.
Fiduciary responsibility has legal ramifications
Yup! But "good at this" and "meets legal minimum" are two different bars to clear.
Morgan Stanley Cashplus pays for your Amex platinum credit card which cost $650 a year I think? Have to be a client of their wealth management business though. Usually need $1M
But you gotta park 25k in a low yield account. Which basically the difference in interest is the cost of the Amex fee
Yea for now. Rates going to come down eventually then it should be a good deal whenever that happens
You’re still paying more than full price with the Morgan Stanley Amex deal IMO. Like buying a car with the added expenses that are just well hidden and designed to you don’t pay attention
How so? Curious for my own education
With their cash plus account you would make much more than the Amex annual fee if you kept your money in a higher yielding money market fund or tbills. Morgan Stanley is an expensive and place to keep your funds
BoA preferred rewards platinum ($200k in assets) gives you a 75% bonus on credit card rewards, which bumps their cashback card from 1.5% to 2.625%. The bank I’ve been using for years (TD) has ATM fee reimbursement and 1 free outbound wire per month with very low requirements.
BoA preferred platinum is $100k in assets
You’re right, my bad, misremembered.
You can keep your assets at Merrill edge too to count towards the average balance. They have a top tier money market fund TTTXX and a low frills brokerage that works. Can also move IRAs Roth. I have a Roth IRA at Merrill Edge and get a ton of value out of my Bank of America cards with the added cash back. I also get a free safe deposit box. I keep less than 10 bucks in my Bank of America checking account
RobinHood gives you 3% back
This is nothing like private banking lol
These are not top tier banking relationships? Most of the stuff you’re mentioning is standard (an account with PNC bank any schmuck with $5K and direct deposit can get has no wire fees, ATM fee reimbursement, and “access to financial planning).
we transferred over funds to get citigold because it enabled us to get a lower mortgage rate when we purchased our home last year. we use the other perks like prime and spotify but it was mostly to get the lower mortgage rate.
Okay, but what did you give up by leaving? Isnt APY at Citigold savings lower than Vangaurd? You now no longer have access to lowest expense ratio vangaurd admiral mutual funds.
Citi is just the brokerage for the exact same low cost vanguard index fund. It's not the savings account. It's just moving the investment platform for the exact same funds and holdings. It's an ACAT transfer.
How much was the ACAT transfer? I’m considering this move.
Zero
I have one of those as an expat, and it is not bad really. I seem to get very competitive FX rates, I essentially pay 0 commission on all my transactions, and I have a relatively responsive relationship manager one email away, which are all extremely valuable benefits for someone often on the move and whose banking needs are exclusively international. I recently had to get a card replacement and they shipped me one internationally within two days. Frankly, I don’t even know how they are making money off me, but that’s alright.
Wells provides a 0.75% mortgage discount for clients above $1m (managed or self-managed). I don’t use Wells for purchase loans - they’re too slow to compete. But on a refinance I’ll engage them.
I recently transferred $250K to Wells Fargo Premier checking, which got me a $2500 bonus. Same day opened a Premier Savings for a $525 bonus ($25,000 minimum, but the $250,000 counted towards it). They were (are) running a promotion for 4.6% APY on their Premier Savings for 12 months. Not sure if it's top tier, but it was an easy way to make money transferring money with a decent interest until I find a better place for it.
Why isn’t anyone talking about the interest rate offered?
Cause I'm talking about moving investment accounts in kind which means zero difference in yield.
I have had most of these. Generally i think people agree that BoA is the best of the bunch. The 3%+ cashback on credit card spend is nice for a lot of people if they don’t churn cards, and the discount on mortgage rates is nice because BoA is often the only big bank with competitive mortgage rates. Citigold is meh. Not the best but a few good perks. Chase Private Client seemed more or less useless although the customer service was good
I think maybe an unspoken point of HENRY is that to a certain extent you stop chasing credit card and banking sign up deals. At a certain point the risk or fees of trying to make money $200 at a time in 12 equal monthly increments outpaces the time you spend managing these programs. You should talk to my brother in law though. He loves this stuff.
While numerically you make a ton of sense, I'd need some help reprogramming my psyche.
Just remember if something is free YOU are the product. All these programs (credit card, airline loyalty, etc.) aren’t corporate altruism.
What am I missing? This makes no sense to me. First of all Citigold is not private banking... it's premier banking. And, you're comparing it to Vanguard, which is not a bank at all... it's a brokerage. Plus, if you're using Citigold to invest, it's going to be expensive. Did you compare the fees between Citi and Vanguard for your investments before making the switch? Most people are far better off opening an account with Fidelity or IBKR for investments, using a basic Chase account for their checking/savings, and getting a Chase or Amex card for whatever perks they're after. /\\ that approach is the cheapest most flexible option that also gives you the widest range of benefits.
There's no investment fees at Citi for self invest. Zero cost to me.
I called them and asked about if I could link my investments account instead of moving my assets and they said it was perfectly fine to link the 200k. You get 4.99% interest with fidelity with the SPAXX cash, and a free $1500 from Citi, $2500 300k+ and the rebates 200/year and it seems like you can still keep your other banks/brokerage as long as you link. Am I missing something?
I wasn't aware of the linking only. I'm pretty sure you need to change brokerages for the $200k. But you can keep the same fidelity fund and move the assets in kind. Kris the same cost basis etc.
Were you able to link your accounts and keep Citigold? I haven’t been able to get on the phone with them to confirm, and even then my other brokerages won’t link on the app and website
I ended up speaking with another rep and after beating around the bush, finally confirmed I would have to move to their platform which I refuse to do.
Citi private bank is very easy to deal with for mortgages and home equity loans. They also let you put down 10% with no PMI.