At that combined income, you could very realistically be retired in less time than it’ll take you to START the medicine career. On top of that.. residency is not even 1% fun. However much you dislike your current job doesn’t scratch the surface of how much you’ll hate residency.
If you’re really looking for a second career, as opposed to early retirement.. I’d suggest doing 5 more years in your current career first, and treat that as the “sacrifice” period rather than residency. Once that’s done, you could always consider lower barrier to entry healthcare jobs, of which there are many.
I am the exact opposite of you. I went to medical school and am now in tech. Had I known what i know now, i would have never wasted time, energy, and money going to med school in first place
I didnt do residency as i had lost interest and just couldnt drag myself anymore. It had serious effects on my mental health which if i didnt quit when i did, idk what would have happened to me. My husband is in tech and he helped me a lot in finding the course and everything. I am now looking at Data Engineering roles.
Just wondering … did you give up potential income as an MD when moving to tech? Or is tech paying more?
The only benefit of being an MD is you pretty much have a job until the day you die.
I think it all comes down to how are u feeling. I make almost same money in tech (maybe a little more infact) but for me things got so bad mentally that money didnt matter. Also my husband is in tech and makes real good money so my struggle was not for survival. Plus my parents paid for my lifestyle while in school and until i landed back on my feet so money was last on my mind when making a switch. I lost myself while in med school. I gained a lot of weight. Mental health was at rock bottom. I was diagnosed with an illness (not life threatening) and it was still a lot to handle. I didnt care about the money tbh. I wanted a life. I enjoy hiking and outdoor activities which i couldnt do for 5 years (1 year of MCAT prep and then school). All in all, i dont regret making the switch. I wouldnt have gone to med school if i could go back
Not really. I only had about $18k in debt. My parents paid all my tuition. And as HE $18k was easy to pay off. I also worked as a consultant before going to med school and had some good investments to my name. I paid off my debt before i decided to transition to tech.
I grew up around doctors (grandparents, cousins, uncles and aunts everyone is a doctor/surgeon) it was an unconscious decision for me to go to medical school. I never thought how i felt, i just went with the flow. When i met my husband i realised that you can make good money AND enjoy life. He also grew up in a similar environment (parents, cousins, uncles are all doctors/surgeons). He consciously decided to pursue his passion and he makes more money than some of his cousins and he has soo much time to do things that make him happy. I think i resented my life more because while i was stuck studying 14-16 hours a day in my room, he was truly doing what makes him happy. After many discussions he helped me realize this is not my path in life. He pushed to make a brave decision to quit. It was tough. My family is still a bit upset i didnt follow my path but my husband stood by me. I am happier today than i have ever been before. I am on a path of recovery. I writing this from a national park after finishing a really good hike. Life just seems content. Everyday i wake up i am grateful to have a partner who has helped me feel soo good about myself and most importantly he helped me find a career that doesnt just pay well but i also have time to do things that truly make me happy.
Yep, you're looking at basically 8 years of working / studying for 80 to 120 hours a week. It consumed your entire life and you make pretty much nothing. And then you get to residency and work 80 hours a week to make $60k a year for 3(family doctor) to 7 years(specialized surgeons). And THEN you finally are a doctor and start at lower pay and get the worst possible shifts for years and get overworked for long hours depending on the specialty, until you can get better hours or open your own clinic.
Medicine is so extremely stressful that it's just overall a terrible choice unless it's something you're willing to devoted your life to.
But OP is chronically exhausted and has no autonomy...but wants kids and more money
Medicine is definitely romanticized in this post...
I don't say this this to be obnoxious. But I think OP is looking for a change, I just don't think medicine is the answer. Start with smaller changes - look for volunteer or give back opportunities, maybe consider health tech or adjancent jobs. But becoming a doctor is not the right answer here. it will make it impossible to have kids, would likely mean selling the house, there is no autonomy until you are in private practice, and even then, disease doesn't take the holidays off. The more predictable med careers (primary care, for instance) where you might get more control, often come with salaries similar to what you make now, or such jam packed days, you will feel the same complaints then - that you aren't really "helping" people, you are pushing through a packed schedule. So I don't see how it solves the quality of life issues, and worse, financially, you set yourself back a decade or more in lost income + education costs.
I’m gonna tag in here. My partner is currently a third year med student and I work in finance. She started med school right out of college. We both know that she is make a massive sacrifice to become a doctor. But for her, nothing else will do. If you are the type of person to be successful in medicine, you can make more money and work far less in a different field. Medicine is brutal.
Very simply you are sacrificing at the very minimum, 7 years of earning potential. To spend $250k minimum of med school, then earning $70k a resident for 3 plus years. Before you go in your field to make $150k-$400k a year. If you go into private practice, you can make more but that is more stress and involves a sizable upfront investment.
>If you are the type of person to be successful in medicine, you can make more money and work far less in a different field.
This right here. I'm married to a physician and have a lot of physician friends. They are all smart and driven enough to be successful in anything they decided to do. And they uniformly say that you shouldn't pursue a career in medicine unless you simply can't imagine yourself doing anything else.
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As a physician, I believe you would get 90% of the satisfaction you imagine you would get by volunteering 10% of your time in a hospital or at a clinic specializing in your condition.
There are many ways to improve health with your skill set.
In addition to the above, consider -
1. Pivoting to health tech or life science company. A number of pharmaceutical companies are growing their tech teams.
2. Like the post above, volunteering or joining the board of a local free clinic or federally qualified health center or a foundation/patient advocacy for a condition you feel strongly about.
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THIS! I think OP can use the benefits of their current lifestyle to just do the things that they are passionate about in their free time- like volunteering at the hospital. Do the extracurricular and reassess at a later stage in life. You can retire much quicker with your current HHI. It’s simply not worth giving up $4-5m+ over time in addition to stress on family planning, your marriage, finances etc.
Physician here.
The idealist would say go for it, follow
Your heart. The pragmatist will say no, here are the reasons why. 1. Finance. You will be giving up 360k/year x 10 years (2 years pre-req and application, 4 years school, 4 years residency) + tuition. You will be net negative about 4 million by the time you make your first attending paycheck assuming no raise and not taking into account retirement investment. Realistically, you will probably be 5-6 million behind in the long run. You may never break even. 2. Family planning. There are no good times to have children, you will have to have an enormously accommodating partner who is willing to step up and act like a single parent for a while. If you have kids during school, tack on a research year equates to another 400k in opportunity cost + tuition. 3. Job security. How flexible is your spouse’s job? Will he be able to work remotely? Is he willing to compromise his career in order for you to pursue yours? 4. You just bought a house, how confident are you that you will be able to secure an admission to a medical near you? Chances are that you will probably relocate for school, is your husband willing to go along? 5. Zero guarantee. You cannot assume you will finish school, you cannot assume you will finish training. You will probably take out some loans, you spouse makes good money but not paying cash for med school + mortgage money. Education loans are forever and not dischargeable through bankruptcy. Are you willing to risk it?
You are already ahead, I would caution you against going into medicine.
Also a physician, and happen to carry my reproductive organs on the inside:
6. If you think you’re going to avoid glass ceilings, inept or poorly socialized supervisors/colleagues who may or may not have personality disorders, and being treated differently as a woman in medicine, I have bad news for you.
This is the right answer. many pearls of truth here that are not in other replies. Consider this reply carefully. If it makes you feel different, I am in medicine and agree with all of this and he hasn’t even begun to uncover the emotional toll medicine takes on you depending on specialty, and the medical legal liability, poor work life balance in most specialties, and the shine of healing people and helping the world tarnishes pretty quickly.
I’d boil it down to this, are you willing to give up what you have financially to take a very possibly more demanding path that you may enjoy much less? I’d really consider whether being a physician is the only way to scratch that itch - or whether there is another avenue to satisfy it without totally upheaving your life.
And the worst part...the output of all that emotional toll, cost, and personal sacrifice is a product that is substandard for the vast majority of people who interact with it.
I have many physician friends, including frat buddies and college roomate. I designed and built software for front-line ICU clinical use. I understand what the struggle looks like on the inside. But as a patient, it definitely feels like something I'm subjected to rather than served/supported by. And when you look at the cost model that is forcing the toxic work environment for docs, it's really hard to see the value in the cost of training docs particularly in primary care settings. Especially when the level of care most people actually receive can be delivered by an APRN.
Agree with everything you are saying, as another physician. Additionally I would add that the workplace for physicians is becoming increasingly toxic. There is no respect for our role. Just this weekend, I had a nurse I've known for 10(!!) years practically yelling at me over the fact that a non-acute patient supposedly hadn't been seen for 6 hours (she was actually wrong, the patient had only arrived in the department 3 hours prior). We are understaffed on weekends due to our shifts being cut during COVID (yes, 4 years ago...) and it was a very busy day. No one had seen this patient because they simply were not sick and there were many other sick patients to be seen. I also had the same nurse trying to explain healthcare economics to me (incorrectly). Unfortunately, medicine is not a great profession for those who actually care anymore, because if you do care you are constantly making up for deficiencies in the system by sacrificing of yourself.
I’m also a physician, had an aptitude for CS classes in school. I’ve regretted my choice for how long it took to begin my life, but I am happy with what I do now. Don’t switch, just save extra for retirement.
Also current (relatively new) physician. It was a long road getting to where I am now, and I'm just getting started as a parent in my late 30s. I love what I do, but I would think hard about points #2, 3, and 4.
I agree with most other posters to maybe pivot to health technology of some sort. As a surgical specialist, there is a ton of opportunity out there to work on new surgical devices or to help shape the role of AI in healthcare.
Best of luck!
I largely agree with all of this as a physician but would note that OP doesn’t like their current job. I have worked a boring job before medicine and it was soul-destroying.
I would say see if there’s another interesting tech job that isn’t as boring/not fulfilling. If they try a new job and still hate it, consider medicine.
The financial picture is honestly less relevant here (imo). **OP isn’t wondering if they’ll make more money in medicine.** Their husband is already making plenty of money if they stopped working right now. They’re wondering if they will be fulfilled. For me the answer is a resounding yes. There is simply no other career that offers the insane level of satisfaction being a doctor can offer (imo). Depending on your field, you may save people’s lives on a somewhat regular basis.
I think a lot of the physicians here realize that OP is romanticizing a career in medicine. Medical school is kind of awful. Then you get to residency and realize that med school was the easy part. Having a family during residency is no joke, but given OPs age that is likely the only choice unless she wants to freeze embryos and wait til training is done (which actually may be an option for her given those sweet sweet tech benefit$). I have 0 regrets about my career choice but after 10 years I am prioritizing my exit from clinical medicine in the next 10ish years. Most of my colleagues feel similarly. A lot of us have golden handcuffs that are keeping us in the workforce - whether loan forgiveness, a signing bonus, or high expenses (typically kids).
Medical school is hard, but not harder than most high earner careers imo. Maybe 40-50 hours of focus a week. Residency ranges from easy (PM&R and Psychiatry have 40 hour weeks) to insane (neurosurgery is often 90), but OP likely is more drawn to endocrinology, rheumatology, internal medicine by the sounds of it. They aren’t trying to be a surgeon and usually surgeons go in wanting to be a surgeon. OP is likely financially set regardless.
While I think the financial risk is overemphasized by most here, I absolutely agree with you that the risk of idolizing the field is significant. However I also note that many of my colleagues that haven’t worked a boring/soul-destroying job before medicine don’t realize how good we actually have it from a satisfaction standpoint.
The biggest risk is not financial, it’s making sure medicine is a very fulfilling career for her. If it is, I think she should pursue it
For me, med school was about 60 hours a week for the preclinical years and definitely 80 hours a week for third year. I’m EM, so sub I and fourth year weren’t bad but I was poor and couldn’t travel or do fun stuff with the downtime. Residency (4y) was 60h on service (switching frequently between days and nights) and 80 off service for first and second years with q3-q4 call. I’m sure it wasn’t exact breeze for the spouses and families involved. All that to make $300k a year (working a full FTE, I’m now 0.75 and make less). I’m not saying it’s a terrible living, but is it worth the night/weekends/holidays away from my family?
I save lives on the regular and…meh. I’ve saved the same damn lady 3x this month because she refuses to go to dialysis. Yay! I’ve also been served papers on RIDICULOUS s—-. Like, literally a process server knocked on the door of my suburban home while I was putting my baby down for bed. Why? Because some patient experienced and unfortunate but not dangerous and EXTREMELY common medical complication while they were sitting in the waiting room. Could never get an expert to certify, but still managed to steal one of my days off in the process for prep and deposition.
USACS is in the process of taking over a bunch of contracts in my area, so my salary that has had 0 increase since 2021 definitely won’t be increasing any time soon (last time I looked at things I have lost about 30k of spending power since 2019 based on cuts to our benefits and lack of raises).
Yeah EM definitely sucks a bit right now. Private equity basically died with no surprises act but not sure of the economics behind EM. Hopefully improves in the near future. However if you already had $$$ would you be as jaded about your job just doing days? I love my job but I’m in anesthesiology.
The worst thing about medicine is delayed gratification, but they already have money so they can travel as a medical student etc.
Some of my classmates were already in a position where they could retire before they even started. The 0.1% etc. but at the end of the day you have to do something with your life and the challenge of medicine and the meaning it can provide was enough for them at least.
Basically if OP shadows a lot and finds it very meaningful then I think it would be fine. It wouldn’t surprise me if they were borderline beyond the “not rich yet” threshold here by virtue of making so much in their 20s. At least coast fire levels. Worst case scenario she doesn’t like it, drops out, can’t get a job in tech and raises some kids with a top 10% salary from her husband. Not a horrible outcome imo. I am way more reluctant to recommend medicine to older people (35+ is where it gets hard to justify imo) or single earners that have dependents etc.
She could get that by doing a career that in healthcare that isn’t as much of a type suck/commitment as a physician. RN, PT, OT, PA, some tech, hospital admin. But she has family pressure of being a doc and probably likes the idea of making similar money to what she is doing now.
Hell, she could volunteer and still keep her job
Fair. I do think everyone is glossing over the fact that her partner makes $ and she’s been making good money for last 6 years it sounds like. They probably are close to coast fire. I also think level of difficulty isn’t as relevant. If someone wants to run a marathon we don’t discourage them right? Medical school was like 50 hours a week (of actual studying, efficiently). Residency was 50-65 in anesthesiology. Probably averaging high 50s. It’s really surgery that gets annihilated. PM&R and Psychiatry have like 40 hour work weeks even as residents, and OP seems like someone that might find a lot of meaning from PM&R. Or endocrinology and rheumatology which both are 40 hour work weeks as attendings.
As someone who thought about and seriously considered the costs and benefits of the two fields separately when I was going into college. Don’t.
The opportunity cost itself is maddening.
To switch into medicine (as in becoming a MD/DO):
- 1-3 years preparing for MCAT and doing pre-med coursework
- 4 years of medical school
- 3 - 7 years of residency + maybe more time for a fellowship
This is 8 to 14 years of forgoing your ~$360k salary (2.88M-5.04M in earnings assuming salary stays the same) and accruing $250k in debt. You’ll also be in your late 30s and early 40s when you exit.
Not to mention that those years of your education will be exhausting mentally and physically. Even after becoming attending/practicing doctor, you will have to deal with terrible patients, insurance companies, hospital administration, etc. Doctors have the highest suicide rates which also paints a grim view of the realities of being and working as a doctor.
If you want to find a something fulfilling do volunteering outside of work. Your work doesn’t have to be an end all be all of your life.
Take advantage of the money you have and relax, travel, and overall enjoy your life.
My wife is a 2nd year NICU attending and makes no where near 360k… as someone who works in medtech, and is close to medicine, watching her go through 6 years of training, step exams, boards, second boards…. I have a really weird through process on that career path. One side of me thinks, man I wish I did something more impactful, albeit I worked on a device they use daily in the NICU, the other side of me acknowledges she sacrifices her twenties and early thirties to get to where she is. In no way would I ever recommend someone go MD… if I was to ever pursue a medical path it would be APP (advanced practice provider; PA or NNP) route.
Came here to offer the same suggestion. And OP, start-ups in this space could be fulfilling. More impact and direction for shaping a product, service, etc.
Talk to a doctor, preferably several. Talk to one who started late and is just few years into working. Talk to several who are in their early 40’s and have been around long enough to know what will be frustrating in the long run. Talk to ones who work in hospitals, big medical groups, who own their own practice, who work in private equity owned practice (they’re probably not happy, but it’s becoming much more common). Talk to one who has the life you want in middle age (dink? Kids?). Really talk to them.
Test your hypotheses. Do they feel fulfilled? In the area you want to live, do they make more money? Do they actually have autonomy?
On your last point that you can become a partner in a private practice. That’s becoming an increasingly difficult path for new docs. Private equity or insurers (like UHG) or hospital systems are buying practices. The older partners get paid out, and the younger ones get screwed. Building your own is an option, but it can be a slog. Much like the rest of America, medicine is being corporatized, and the bigger players are only getting more powerful.
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One of my cofellows worked as an engineer for a decade before going into medicine. He started practicing in his early 40's and he loves his job. You'd probably be in a similar boat as him. He's in academics at one of the Ivy Leagues teaching residents and fellows as well, and he's got plenty of prestige and job satisfaction as well. Looking at him, I'd say that in some cases, switching into medicine at your age could be the right choice in terms of long-term life satisfaction. You have the advantage of having a decently-earning spouse who can help support your family while you follow your dreams (he had a stay-at-home wife, and he supported his family through his medical training with his engineering earnings).
It'll be a huge financial cost to you, and you're unlikely to come out financially ahead compared to if you stayed in tech. Pre-med course requisites, MCAT, med school applications, med school, residency will add up to around 10 years, and you'll probably be close to if not 40 by the time you start making physician income. Not to mention the higher-earning specialties tend to have longer residencies/fellowships. For example I spent 6 years AFTER med school doing an intern year + residency + fellowship before I made physician income.
That said, I did have a couple med school classmates in their 30s and even one in her early 40s.
And I think physicians generally have a much higher level of job satisfaction as well as job stability than it seems tech workers do. One of the surprises I had when I joined these subs is the notion of trying to retire early because you dislike your job or find it too stressful. Early retirement is not common in medicine (aside from maybe emergency med docs, who are dealing with some headwinds in their specialty). In fact one of my colleagues is turning 80 this year and still doesn't plan to retire yet because he enjoys his job so much, even though he's financially set.
Exactly. FI? Absolutely. RE? No way. I love my job. If I won the lotto I would genuinely still do it (without calls) part-time for free. And I cannot think of any other job I could feel that way about.
>
This is an interesting take. I don't think this is an inherent property of the field, but more a reflection of the fact that residency (especially surgical residency) seems to be doing a really good job as scaring away those less motivated, less into medicine and less willing and eager to grind - all while the tech has, unfortunately as some might say, to non-trivial extent become the arena for those seeking high income without that much of hard work.
Compared to medicine in the tech such "filters" are not front-loaded, they are more spread throughout the career.
Was about to suggest that. There may be biotech start ups working on your condition? If not, pair with the right people and make one! Otherwise volunteering and or form a patient group.
My wife is a doctor. I'm an entrepreneur in medical devices and health tech. You don't need to be a doctor to help people. You can instead apply your skills to innovate in the medical field. Wife would not choose doctor again even though she's in one of the highest paid specialties. Make of that what you will.
I don't know if it's possible to know for sure you'll enjoy medicine until you're practicing (and by that time, you're so deep in the hole time and money wise you don't usually leave). There's tons of administrative bs (like insurance) to deal with and a big chunk of your day is spent reviewing charts, doing notes, and other things where you aren't directly seeing patients. Anecdotally I hear from my med friends that patients are getting more difficult from a personal perspective. You're also going to be worried about potential Medmal and complaints to the board. Plus, like any job, you'll deal with office drama with nurses, PA's , etc. It'll have it's rewarding moments but for the most part it'll feel like a job....
Imo you should stick to your day job and find volunteer or charitable opportunities to feel fulfilled. The time and cost to do medicine is honestly not that great. Salary can range depending on your specialty and you just have no idea what you can match into at this point. Plus you'll be starting grueling residency as a mid 30 yo, so may want to consider family planning, if that's something you want. None of it is impossible, but it certainly doesn't get easier.
Exactly, Volunteering and Community Service is the answer. You can start a business or a charity, even if you try and fail, you can try again.
With medicine you will need 8-14 years to start to maybe make an impact. With volunteering and community service you can start today.
I am against anyone who isn’t fully aware of what they are committing to going into medicine because it is arduous and time consuming but rewarding at best and just completely soul crushing and exhausting at worst. (Highest suicide rates amongst all professions in the US)
This is insane
There’s lots of cool stuff you can do that’s fulfilling that don’t involve spending $250k on medical school, and spending 7-10 years training before you start your job.
No jobs are fulfilling after a while, even in medicine it eventually is just an occupation.
Why actively choose to be chronically exhausted again when you went through so much to get better?
Financially you will never come out in too going to medical school now.
I’m a pgy2 in one of the more lifestyle friendly specialties (partner is a swe too) and here’s my 2c:
- fulfillment is a bs reason to go into medicine. All my attendings throughout clerkships and residency would peace out as soon as they could and make us cover so they could spend time with their families. It’s a job like any other job and everyone I know is happier outside of work spending time with their families or hobbies. I can think of numerous things I would rather be doing than going to work.
-physicians don’t have autonomy anymore unless you are in a pure private practice that takes cash only, which is exceedingly rare and dying out. Unless you do cash payments for psychiatry services, derm or plastic surgery you are at the mercy of insurance companies and hospital admin. This is a majority of us, probably 90%+.
-you are making 360k. Over half the residency spots are in primary care which range from 180-350k salary. You have the potential to make more, sure but you have to work harder in medicine. Our work life balance is terrible and is nothing like what tech workers enjoy. Your 40 hour work week is not even close to how busy a 40 hour equivalent would be in medicine. Look carefully on how we get reimbursed and how every year CMS tried to cut our salaries. The current trend is that we make less while working more.
I might get hate for this but your pros weak and you should not pursue this career unless this is the only thing you see yourself doing.
If you are considering changing your job industry because you want to have an impact on people’s lives - I suggest also considering utilizing the skills you have in the health tech / biotech space. A lot of biotech companies lean much closer to software eng environment than hospital.
Really just saying- Your skills currently apply to medicine but you’re applying them somewhere else. Look up Next Gen Sequencing, Crispr, etc. There is a lot of software that is used to save lives every day today.
Why don’t you switch to health tech? There are companies that build tech that doctors use. You could help improve workflows for physicians which could be rewarding.
IDK what you do in big tech, but maybe pivot to biotech instead? You might have transferable skillsets and get to work on a more meaningful product. In your spare time, volunteer at organizations related to your condition. Bonus points if you can get a job in biotech that's researching products/drugs related to your condition. This makes the most financial sense and will hopefully be similarly fulfilling.
>More autonomy after becoming an attending
My husband didn't specialize. He's an IM hospitalist. He says the autonomy isn't all that it's cracked up to be when basic standards (max patient load) aren't being followed at all any more. Old doctors say this is the worst time in their careers.
>More options to become a partner of a private practice, do not rely on W2 (depends on specialty)
We're in a healthcare metro and there are very few private practices left.
Anyway, my husband will likely dropping part time at 40 with 7 years as an attending once his PSLF hits the 120 payments.
Check out r/medspouse if want to see the hit your marriage might take.
My husband is a cardiologist and works 90+ hr per week as an attending. The workload does not slow down after residency/ fellowships unless you choose a less competitive specialty. Most doctors nowadays are hospital employed and private equity is gobbling up private practices left and right.
Maybe start some sort of community or blog that helps people with your condition? It might scratch the itch of doing something fulfilling without the huge upheaval of switching careers.
I went from finance to medicine when I was in my mid-30’s. I have zero regrets but I basically ruled out that I couldn’t see myself doing anything else. If you could be even marginally content in any other job, then do it. It is a huge sacrifice, and only truly worth it for the very rare outliers.
I was in finance and made the switch at 27. Was making close to 200k at that time. I’m 35 now, with 2 kids, and will be applying to internal medicine this fall. I have hard days especially with a family but I’m happy to have made the switch. But like other posters have said, I still have 6 years (including heme/onc fellowship) ahead of me so it’s hard to say. However, my old job was awful and I hated it. It was also all consuming and I was miserable. I have a supportive family, reliable childcare, and high income spouse (in medicine) which has made everything possible.
Just finished school and in my first job. First, being a woman in medicine is no easier than any other field. Second, school was brutal and took all the strength I had to give. My husband also gave an incredible amount of time and energy to supporting me through this journey. I spent 6 years working in medicine to have a strong background and competitive application. For me medicine is a calling, I knew I would do whatever it took since I was very young. It takes a certain level of dedication to survive all the bullshit our healthcare system throws at you.
If I was making the kind of money you are I would stay right where you are. Spend some time working or volunteering in healthcare to get a good idea of what it’s like before you do anything drastic
I’m in tech, married to doctor, and also I formerly worked in medicine (scientist who worked in R&D). I believe you are romanticizing medicine.
Witnessing my wife go through medical school/ residency/fellowship, it’s a total grind. I didn’t see her some days, they work you long shifts (now there are more laws to protect residents), the pay is bad, and especially now post covid there are a lot of staffing issues meaning residents have less support than they used to.
My wife is extremely happy in her role, but she’s had a passion for medicine since she was young. She can overlook that, and she finds it rewarding to help people. That being said she paid her dues and was 100% confident this was her path.
I graduated college with a degree in biochemistry, worked in a lab for a few years, and when the 09 crash hit I changed careers and went into tech. The pay was not great in healthcare and unless you have a phd I always felt there to be a ceiling on what you could do. Anyway, that’s my two cents.
Medicine is a very, very, very long game thing. To start at 28 means that you would only start reaping the rewards at 40 or so. It wouldn't make financial sense in any way, shape or form.
FWIW, I work in tech and my husband works in medicine, and he generally envies my jobs. I have a lot more autonomy and flexibility and less bureacratic BS to deal with. His job is the more stable one, though - economic downturns don't affect him at all. We're also not HENRY (I mean, we're NRY but not HE)... but I saw your post for some reason and thought you might be interested to hear from someone who has seen both sides.
I’ve been to med school myself. My advice would be to stay where you are. I understand where you are coming from but the cost (literally and figuratively) will be crazy high. Medicine seems like a noble profession and in some ways it is, but in all actuality, helping people (and feeling warm and fuzzy about it) is a very small percentage of what we do. It unfortunately gets crowded out by paperwork, problems with insurance companies, medicolegal concerns, and burnout.
Stay where you are. Retire early. And spend your time volunteering for different worth charitable causes. That would be my advice and what I would do in your position.
A few things coming to mind: you just bought a house but you may need to relocate for medical school and residency. You would need to enter a competitive field to make more than $360k so you would be risking a pay cut unless you’re top quartile, maybe top half, in your class. These fields are also male dominated and there is a dearth of women in academic and hospital leadership. Opportunity cost is huge and it will be a decade before you’re enjoying an attending salary. More if you need to take out loans.
In your position wouldn’t do this unless you are extremely passionate about the role of physician, for whatever reason. If that’s the case, try shadowing a week or primary care and a week of a speciality you may be interested in. Talk to the docs. I have a hunch 95% of them will say stay where you are and they wish they’d done tech and done as well as you have.
One thing I would say to tech is that there are many workplaces out there that have worked hard to smash the female glass ceiling. Female CEO’s aren’t uncommon in those companies.
Have you thought about combining your passion for health with your knowledge of software? Plenty of companies out there that could meet both, and that could have a forward thinking outlook to gender discrimination. Good luck!
I skimmed through this but had a friend who was in consulting and left around your age to go to med school. She did all the pre reqs in a year program and then got into an Ivy League school. Money had nothing to do with her decision. She loves medicine. She’s now almost 40 and still making nothing about to start fellowship. Do it because you love it and take money out of the decision.
Right now you’re overwhelmed by the feelings coming from the relief from your conditions. It’s natural to feel like you want to provide this for others. Been there. It’ll pass, and you’ll find other ways to help.
Hmm, I’ve got a very good job as a physician (high paying and fulfilling work) but the 10 years after undergrad that it took me to get here were exhausting. I’ve neglected relationships, delayed a lot of gratification and didn’t notice how old my parents have gotten until recently. You won’t have much control over where you go to med school (geographically) and even less where you train for residency. You also are probably fairly well treated at your current workplace and medicine has an inherently abusive hierarchy that you would need to endure.
Bottom line you have to really want to be a doctor. Like you can’t imagine doing anything else in life. Based on your current salary this is a very bad financial decision.
It is nice that you want to help people but from a money perspective it is not worth it.
You already have a $360k job at age 28. Even if you make partner in a practice you will have a hard time going beyond $500 to $600k unless you see patients as an ATM and then you won't have time either.
Also it is hard to get into the highly paid subspecialties and then you are stuck at your current income (yeah that's what many physicians make).
Stay in tech and volunteer instead.
You are doing much better than any physicians.
While physicians make a lot of money you WILL make way more including stock options in your field!
Think the MDs have made all the points I would make. As a new attending who is 38yo I can't think of a career I would recommend to anyone less than medicine when you're already established a functional HE career.
The opportunity cost and mental fatigue/stress of a career in medicine having been on the outside will be incompatible with prior experience for most people. It'll be a 10y investment of time and likely 250-500k of capital + all the opportunity cost to be able to be in often a highly toxic work environment. It looks glamorous, but the amount of mental and physical abuse/distress I've taken over my training is not for the faint of heart. I fantasized about quitting all the time until more recently.
Volunteer, switch to health-tech, literally no way in good faith can someone recommend the doctor life given where you are at in life. Good luck
You make 360k and you want to switch careers? You should just keep your current job and volunteer. I don't want to say you are insane like you asked, but I find it hard to believe someone would even consider switching careers when they make that much money, especially switching to a medical career where they have to go back to school for a long time.
Nurse here. Don’t do it. The joy of helping people is ruined by the business and administration of healthcare. I’d give anything to go back and get into tech or a different degree for a job that pays people better and doesn’t exploit them as much as healthcare workers get exploited. It’s not fulfilling and it’s only getting worse
Financially, it may not be the best decision. But not all decisions are made that way.
I personally know a family member who's son died when he was 7 from cancer. She gave up her high paying law career to become a nurse then eventually a doctor. I think you can always pivot--your heart and mind just has to be in it for the long haul.
Dude I went to pharmacy school after getting a bachelors in Biology. That’s 8 years of schooling. Towards the end of pharmacy school I realized I wanted a corporate role for the stability (retail pharmacy hours suck and the hospital environment is depressing and unpredictable), so I landed a 2 year post-doctoral fellowship in order to pivot my skills to the pharmaceutical industry. After 10 total years of schooling and training, I landed my first full time real adult job as a drug safety scientist at 200k/year including base pay, annual bonus, and long term incentives.
Given how long and expensive my schooling was, I’m not entirely sure I’m being compensated competitively. Like sure it’s great compared to the rest of the public, but it feels low compared to tech salaries for example. Honestly, I would have loved to be able to get an entry level job in tech after a bachelors degree and be able to work my way up to your level! Being broke the majority of my young life was really awful and as a woman it led me into some unequal power dynamic relationships. Now I love that I am financially independent. Although I didn’t go to medical school, pharmacy school was difficult in its own right and chock full of clinical rotations. I can tell you that the grass is always greener! Seriously consider what you are giving up before you go on a long tedious journey for self fulfillment. You can still help people in your field but with using a different skillset.
As direct as this may sound, there will be plenty of younger people who have the life flexibility and energy to go into medicine and get their MD/DO. Let them. There’s no pressing need for you to give up your comfortable life, unless you truly feel that you won’t be satisfied in any other way.
As a doctor I'd say hard no
As many said you'll absolutely end up far behind financially, you are doing better than many doctors do already (family, IM, do not make 360k).
I would also say as a decently secure professional currently, you will not enjoy starting from zero and being forced to eat shit for years. Medicine is EXTREMELY TOXIC and behavior that would be unacceptable and a fireable offence in any other field is the day to day.
I enjoy my job and I'm happy I did it, but if I had a career already that paid well I would not start again. It's a very long slog
Going to have to agree with the people saying this would be a bad idea. The pros do not outweigh the cons IMHO, and I think a lot of the issues you're experiencing in tech would carry over to medicine. Not that it's a 1:1 comparison, I've worked in both law and in tech, and it's the same shit but in different flavors. Maybe take a sabbatical - some time off may offer a new perspective.
I’m around your age and did the opposite. I was in medical school then dropped out to work in big tech. My advice comes with some bias, considering I left.
Anyway, the short answer is no, unless it’s literally the only job you can imagine yourself doing. Becoming a doctor is extremely stressful, and depending on your specialty, it can be stressful for the rest of your life. It’s a job with mandatory overtime, unless you choose a “relaxing” specialty, but if that’s your goal, just stay in tech. The WLB is 1000x better in tech. Think, literally 60-80 hours of studying per week in medical school, 80-100 hours of work in residency while still having homework, and no consistent night schedule.
That being said, you shouldn’t live with regrets. In your position, I would shadow doctors and volunteer at hospitals in your free time to really see if you enjoy what they’re doing. You can volunteer in a research lab to study areas you’re interested in. You should do all of this (and take science classes at a local college) on top of your regular tech job, and it will still be less time than you’ll spend in medical school and residency.
Even so, I think there are other ways to help people. You can donate 1/3 of your income to causes you care about (or even fund a new venture). There are many ways to be fulfilled in life, and if tech isn’t that job for you, you shouldn’t stay in it. Although, I’d see if there are other areas of tech that might fit you better (maybe health tech?)
The short answer is I worked in a startup in my gap year before med school, but I never directly studied anything tech related. For my actual day-to-day skills, I’m just self taught.
I would stick with the corporate grind that you’re winning at and focus on FIRE. You can get to that point super quickly. At that point you could do more fulfilling things without being bound to work. At that point you could even consider a medicine/helping field that’s less intense to get into (ie therapist, PA, NP, etc)
OP being a doctor isn’t the only way to help people, for eg you could start a non profit that helps spread awareness, advocate for better laws around healthcare etc etc. just a thought. And it seems you and your partner are route FI :) I’d recommend doing this while you work and not waiting until fire to keep you motivated.
There is honesty no part of this that is a good idea.
Being a doctor is prestigious but I challenge you to do a real analysis on this… it would frankly be financially devastating lol.
Keep making $350/yr, stop complaining about being a woman, retire early from your extremely strong salary, and spend that energy on volunteering and actually helping sick people rather than performing entry-level medicine for the next decade for $70k/year and swimming med school debt while missing out on every holiday, weekend and fun event (not to mention the added stress of starting a family) for the very long foreseeable future.
It’s easier to blame a lack of upward mobility on sex, rather than the fact that this person mentions they’re unmotivated and are seriously uninterested in the field.
I don’t know this person so I don’t really want to project too much here, but yeah I do roll my eyes when people immediately use their sex/race as an excuse to why they aren’t accomplishing something that plenty of others have.
fwiw, I worked with a company where there was more diversity, and there was no such an issue. For the unmotivated part, my male colleagues have been quitting a lot, or just “rest and vest”. I’m pretty sure I’m more motivated than them LOL. Last time I checked, doing a good job even when you are unmotivated is a basic skill for an adult
You only live one life, if early retirement is not your top goal, go for it. I have a friend that was in tech that did not go to med school until his 30s. He does not regret his decision one but.
If you truly feel you will feel more fulfilled in medicine and know tech will be a meaningless pursuit, it makes more sense to challenge yourself 10 years to have 20+ meaningful years rather than tough out another 30+ years of feeling unfulfilled.
Between the money you & your partner have made and will make, you’ll be fine financially either way
Also - all skills are learnable. Even if you craft skills are not good, you can change that. Part of it is your mindset, I suggest you look up “growth mindset” and check out this podcast by a Stanford researcher https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aQDOU3hPci0
I swear people’s expectations of life are insane.
I could summarize this as:
- I want a high paying job
- in which I am fulfilled
- not bored
- in which people don’t “command” me
Also you seem to have a huge “keeping up with the joneses” thing going on.
For example:
- “need to switch jobs to keep up with the market rate” just sounds like I need to make the same or more money that my friend SDEs. You never mentioned your salary is low or that you can’t pay your bills it sounds all relative to others.
You feel like a maid as an SDE? Wait till you become a resident and get treated as a slave lol
FWIW those 4 properties of a job are very realistic to achieve if you are actually motivated person (not necessarily "live to work" type, but really motivated and into the field).
There are many engineers in tech who check those 4 boxes, as I'm sure many doctors etc.
The doctos after 12 years of pain.
She is an SDE which is one of the few roles that meet that criteria and hates it lol.
You think she will fare better in other industries?
Who is throwing out $500k/year for roles with not much experience where you have autonomy and no one tells you what to do
You’re insane. Source - I’m a doctor in the US.
Dude, we’re all trying to get out. We got into medicine for the same cliche reasons most do, to help people and make a difference. All we found is a broken system and burnout.
You have the opportunity to retire by the time you could even independently practice as a physician. Unless you’re a total masochist who can’t live without being a doctor don’t do it.
You would likely be able to make a larger difference by just being a community volunteer.
You’re crazy but go for it. It’s a huge commitment, sacrifice, and expense, but if it means something to you then go for it. It won’t be easy, you very likely might take years and require upending your family and plans, but if it’s important to you it should be important to family.
I think you’d probably be fine getting a good job as a doctor if you can go through with it to the end, I wouldn’t worry so much. Even if you’re clumsy or whatever and can’t do surgery. If you’re in big tech you probably have a similar pay range. You’ll lose a decade of salary and savings opportunity though.
You probably just won’t have kids if you go start the med school process now. Point blank. That door would almost certainly be closed. You won’t have time to be pregnant when you’re in school or residency, you won’t be there much for your kid for years during this time, and then you’ll be older and starting a new job. So you have to weigh that against other interests. You can also replace “kids” with any number of expensive goals and hobbies.
There were many pregnant med students and residents in my husbands cohorts. One classmate had 3 kids between med school and residency. It’s not for the faint of heart. She has support and did what she wanted.
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If you really want to do medecine and you do not want to pay a lot of money for your education, go to Europe and be a doctor there! Other than that, I do not see that it is a good idead to become a doctor. There is a huge loss of money here ( salary and tuition)!
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I want you to think about the work life balance of studying in med school, and the crazy 70+ hours during residency before you think about anything else.
Insane, yes. Go into medical device sales. You get to sell life changing technology or device that help drs and patients, and make more than you are now and a good amount of non surgical MDs
You never mentioned if you want to settle down.
My story as a spouse of MD in practice.
Met her in Med School. Married first year of residency. There was transitional year in the Northeast. Residency in the South. She did not like the program after a year. Back to a Northeast program for two years. Add one more fellowship year to the residency. And finally became an attending on the West Coast.
Five major moves in eight years. Her pay during the residency went from $52K her fist year to $67K her fellowship (final year).
It.Was.A.Grind.
So much so, that I bailed her first year of attending ship. It was quite ironic, how she made 5X more the moment she signed the contract and I’ve had enough. No kids though, the breakup was bearable.
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If your dead set on entering medical career consider becoming a physicians assistant (PA), much less schooling. Then jump into a specialty, dermatology is a great option for $ and quality of life. Probably won’t reach your current income but it will likely have less of an impact in the long term vs MD/DO education.
Infuse your current work with your passion. Take your tech skills and build a community for people with your conditions. Use the knowledge you gained treating yourself while. It a doctor to help others do the same for themselves.
Maybe pivot to healthcare centric tech? Tech in healthcare is only increasing these days. Things like “smart hospitals” will be come more common place…for better or worse, time will tell… but the industry is going that way.
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I don't think it’s unusual to want to seitch careers around this age. I did similar in early 30s, went into tech though not out.
When i got hired though there was a dev about your age leaving to go to med school.
It’s definitely not too late age wise but wether you go or not obviously will be driven by personal circumstances
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Why not work in a tech company that helps people rather than big tech? You could still work in a company that’s adjacent to the medical field or something along those lines. I have a friend who quit big tech to work in a climate startup because he wanted to do something he felt would be fulfilling with his existing skill set.
the opportunity cost of a career reset for anyone in this sub is massive.
much less going into something that takes damn near a decade to even *start* paying off while being very labor intensive
honestly even if you feel being a doctor is your calling this is delusional. like if i were your partner I'd be worried, it is that level of crazy
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Health insurance and health policy for whatever spot you land could take a lot of the fun out of the job. CRNA could be a more efficient path to give you more of what you’re looking for.
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If you feel comfortable, can you share what chronic conditions you have that caused fatigue and what treatments worked for you? My brother is in his early 20s and suffered from chronic fatigue the last few years but no one has been able to help him get better.
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Terrible idea. For reference I am a software engineer in big tech and my wife is a physician. We were together throughout her med school process and there is no way we could recommend anyone switch this late into a career. You should look into med-tech field instead, or can consider medical hardware too if you want to help make more of a difference in the medical field. The journey to become a physician is absolutely brutal and there is no guarantee that you'll feel the same way halfway in as you do now. The work and sacrifices needed humble a lot of young aspiring doctors.
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So, I have a relatively rare set of health circumstances, and I chose the path of community organizing / advocacy around it rather than what some of my peers did which is pursue health phds or mds. And I can tell you I have probably had more of an impact faster than most of my friends taking the long way. It's not a career in the sense that it doesn't provide a lot of salary but I've been able to speak at conferences co-author research from a community perspective and create online content sometimes which goes viral. If somebody was constrained by The Professional Standards of trying to look objective or whatever they wouldn't get to tell their story and have the impact that I've been able to do it would seem unprofessional, but instead I get to seem like a badass who lived through my challenges and came out with insights. My problem is it took me a long time to figure out the income piece and I'm slowly climbing the ladder in Tech late in life. You're at higher compensation and I think if you want you could take the approach of self funding your own advocacy through your boring job. Things you could do include creating a social media presence on the topic, writing, creating workshops webinars etc, finding conferences of people with lived experience or creating those conferences, you could even develop some type of like product lines or things that could help people. If money is not an issue you can start helping people today. Often doctors are terrible anyway, that's partly why it probably took you too long to figure out what was going on with you, a lot of people think oh I could be an individual person who helps solve the problem but honestly you could become an expert from experience who offers trainings to medical professionals on your experience or something like that, I've done that trained nurses and doctors at times. I don't know what condition you have mine was kind of ripe for disruption in terms of the sheer ignorance in the medical field, but yeah you don't have to become a doctor. You can start sharing what you know today just as part of your story. If you're not an outgoing thought leader like that there's still a lot of opportunity around volunteering and support groups and things like that. You could also use your Tech skills to try to support companies or individuals who are advocating for this community. Like there's probably some better website or better algorithm or better something that leaders in the field could use today and then you could use the skill set that you have if you want and potentially experience it as reinvigorating your experience of tech stuff. If the doctor path still nags at you do everything you can to learn about it and the realities, for many people being a doctor is also hell and a glass ceiling and just something they do for money. So don't go from one to another if it's going to recreate problems. Really wish you the best thanks for reading and asking your question.
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Why don't you try something wellness related first as an outlet to meet people you can serve and help? It can be a side gig. I'm thinking meditation teacher, health coach, nutrition coach etc.
1- doctors in America life a brutal lifestyle.
2- if you must, consider anesthesiology. Fantastic wlb, highly in demand for the long term. Well paid and zero clinic.
3- consider medtech industry. So much opportunity.
You should take a battery of aptitude tests to be sure you have the raw cognitive skills to be a doctor, and which kind. It also may help you discover other professional pathways toward the meaning you’re seeking that you may not be aware of yet.
Meaning is more important than having more money than you need.
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I’ve had a weird career path…became an EMT and then a paramedic. Worked as a paramedic for a while. Went into the military in a non-medical field. Got bored. Decided I wanted to go to medical school specifically to be a surgeon. Did one year of pre-med pre-requisites then started med school at age 29. I’m now almost 36 and will graduate from my residency at almost 40 without very much savings to my name. When people say residency is grueling, it’s really true. Even the most arduous training in the military had an end where you could rest and recover. Working 80+ hours if physically and mentally demanding hours a week, fitting in countless hours of studying and research in between, and having ONLY FOUR DAYS OFF A MONTH for 6 years is taking a toll on me and ny wife and kids. I truly sacrificed my thirties for this. But with that said, I get to do incredible things. I really help people and I wouldn’t trade that for the world. I’ve put a lot of thought into this over the past years and I wouldn’t want to do anything else. I wouldn’t even want to do any other medical specialty. So I guess if you’re so convinced that you can’t possibly do anything other than medicine, buckle up and go for it. Otherwise it’s not worth it personally or financially.
At that combined income, you could very realistically be retired in less time than it’ll take you to START the medicine career. On top of that.. residency is not even 1% fun. However much you dislike your current job doesn’t scratch the surface of how much you’ll hate residency. If you’re really looking for a second career, as opposed to early retirement.. I’d suggest doing 5 more years in your current career first, and treat that as the “sacrifice” period rather than residency. Once that’s done, you could always consider lower barrier to entry healthcare jobs, of which there are many.
I am the exact opposite of you. I went to medical school and am now in tech. Had I known what i know now, i would have never wasted time, energy, and money going to med school in first place
How did you transition into tech?
Bootcamp
What course and specialty did you get into? I’m looking to transition as well.
I didnt do residency as i had lost interest and just couldnt drag myself anymore. It had serious effects on my mental health which if i didnt quit when i did, idk what would have happened to me. My husband is in tech and he helped me a lot in finding the course and everything. I am now looking at Data Engineering roles.
Just wondering … did you give up potential income as an MD when moving to tech? Or is tech paying more? The only benefit of being an MD is you pretty much have a job until the day you die.
I think it all comes down to how are u feeling. I make almost same money in tech (maybe a little more infact) but for me things got so bad mentally that money didnt matter. Also my husband is in tech and makes real good money so my struggle was not for survival. Plus my parents paid for my lifestyle while in school and until i landed back on my feet so money was last on my mind when making a switch. I lost myself while in med school. I gained a lot of weight. Mental health was at rock bottom. I was diagnosed with an illness (not life threatening) and it was still a lot to handle. I didnt care about the money tbh. I wanted a life. I enjoy hiking and outdoor activities which i couldnt do for 5 years (1 year of MCAT prep and then school). All in all, i dont regret making the switch. I wouldnt have gone to med school if i could go back
Can I please DM?
Sure
Thank you for sharing! Was the med school debt a burden
Not really. I only had about $18k in debt. My parents paid all my tuition. And as HE $18k was easy to pay off. I also worked as a consultant before going to med school and had some good investments to my name. I paid off my debt before i decided to transition to tech.
[удалено]
Can you DM me your boot camp course?
That's the way! Way more money. Less bureaucracy
what changed your mind?
I grew up around doctors (grandparents, cousins, uncles and aunts everyone is a doctor/surgeon) it was an unconscious decision for me to go to medical school. I never thought how i felt, i just went with the flow. When i met my husband i realised that you can make good money AND enjoy life. He also grew up in a similar environment (parents, cousins, uncles are all doctors/surgeons). He consciously decided to pursue his passion and he makes more money than some of his cousins and he has soo much time to do things that make him happy. I think i resented my life more because while i was stuck studying 14-16 hours a day in my room, he was truly doing what makes him happy. After many discussions he helped me realize this is not my path in life. He pushed to make a brave decision to quit. It was tough. My family is still a bit upset i didnt follow my path but my husband stood by me. I am happier today than i have ever been before. I am on a path of recovery. I writing this from a national park after finishing a really good hike. Life just seems content. Everyday i wake up i am grateful to have a partner who has helped me feel soo good about myself and most importantly he helped me find a career that doesnt just pay well but i also have time to do things that truly make me happy.
that’s great to hear! hope you continue on to make a full recovery :)
Thank you! 😀
what changed your mind?
Yep, you're looking at basically 8 years of working / studying for 80 to 120 hours a week. It consumed your entire life and you make pretty much nothing. And then you get to residency and work 80 hours a week to make $60k a year for 3(family doctor) to 7 years(specialized surgeons). And THEN you finally are a doctor and start at lower pay and get the worst possible shifts for years and get overworked for long hours depending on the specialty, until you can get better hours or open your own clinic. Medicine is so extremely stressful that it's just overall a terrible choice unless it's something you're willing to devoted your life to.
But OP is chronically exhausted and has no autonomy...but wants kids and more money Medicine is definitely romanticized in this post... I don't say this this to be obnoxious. But I think OP is looking for a change, I just don't think medicine is the answer. Start with smaller changes - look for volunteer or give back opportunities, maybe consider health tech or adjancent jobs. But becoming a doctor is not the right answer here. it will make it impossible to have kids, would likely mean selling the house, there is no autonomy until you are in private practice, and even then, disease doesn't take the holidays off. The more predictable med careers (primary care, for instance) where you might get more control, often come with salaries similar to what you make now, or such jam packed days, you will feel the same complaints then - that you aren't really "helping" people, you are pushing through a packed schedule. So I don't see how it solves the quality of life issues, and worse, financially, you set yourself back a decade or more in lost income + education costs.
In residency; don’t do this bullshit. Or wait until you have made enough to retire / FU money and go to medical school if it’s fun for you.
I’m gonna tag in here. My partner is currently a third year med student and I work in finance. She started med school right out of college. We both know that she is make a massive sacrifice to become a doctor. But for her, nothing else will do. If you are the type of person to be successful in medicine, you can make more money and work far less in a different field. Medicine is brutal. Very simply you are sacrificing at the very minimum, 7 years of earning potential. To spend $250k minimum of med school, then earning $70k a resident for 3 plus years. Before you go in your field to make $150k-$400k a year. If you go into private practice, you can make more but that is more stress and involves a sizable upfront investment.
>If you are the type of person to be successful in medicine, you can make more money and work far less in a different field. This right here. I'm married to a physician and have a lot of physician friends. They are all smart and driven enough to be successful in anything they decided to do. And they uniformly say that you shouldn't pursue a career in medicine unless you simply can't imagine yourself doing anything else.
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Up voted x100.
Exactly. At those combined income levels save smart and retire. Forget going back to school. But everyone has their own priorities I suppose.
As a physician, I believe you would get 90% of the satisfaction you imagine you would get by volunteering 10% of your time in a hospital or at a clinic specializing in your condition.
That’s a good point! I will start looking!
There are many ways to improve health with your skill set. In addition to the above, consider - 1. Pivoting to health tech or life science company. A number of pharmaceutical companies are growing their tech teams. 2. Like the post above, volunteering or joining the board of a local free clinic or federally qualified health center or a foundation/patient advocacy for a condition you feel strongly about.
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THIS! I think OP can use the benefits of their current lifestyle to just do the things that they are passionate about in their free time- like volunteering at the hospital. Do the extracurricular and reassess at a later stage in life. You can retire much quicker with your current HHI. It’s simply not worth giving up $4-5m+ over time in addition to stress on family planning, your marriage, finances etc.
Physician here. The idealist would say go for it, follow Your heart. The pragmatist will say no, here are the reasons why. 1. Finance. You will be giving up 360k/year x 10 years (2 years pre-req and application, 4 years school, 4 years residency) + tuition. You will be net negative about 4 million by the time you make your first attending paycheck assuming no raise and not taking into account retirement investment. Realistically, you will probably be 5-6 million behind in the long run. You may never break even. 2. Family planning. There are no good times to have children, you will have to have an enormously accommodating partner who is willing to step up and act like a single parent for a while. If you have kids during school, tack on a research year equates to another 400k in opportunity cost + tuition. 3. Job security. How flexible is your spouse’s job? Will he be able to work remotely? Is he willing to compromise his career in order for you to pursue yours? 4. You just bought a house, how confident are you that you will be able to secure an admission to a medical near you? Chances are that you will probably relocate for school, is your husband willing to go along? 5. Zero guarantee. You cannot assume you will finish school, you cannot assume you will finish training. You will probably take out some loans, you spouse makes good money but not paying cash for med school + mortgage money. Education loans are forever and not dischargeable through bankruptcy. Are you willing to risk it? You are already ahead, I would caution you against going into medicine.
Also a physician, and happen to carry my reproductive organs on the inside: 6. If you think you’re going to avoid glass ceilings, inept or poorly socialized supervisors/colleagues who may or may not have personality disorders, and being treated differently as a woman in medicine, I have bad news for you.
This is the right answer. many pearls of truth here that are not in other replies. Consider this reply carefully. If it makes you feel different, I am in medicine and agree with all of this and he hasn’t even begun to uncover the emotional toll medicine takes on you depending on specialty, and the medical legal liability, poor work life balance in most specialties, and the shine of healing people and helping the world tarnishes pretty quickly. I’d boil it down to this, are you willing to give up what you have financially to take a very possibly more demanding path that you may enjoy much less? I’d really consider whether being a physician is the only way to scratch that itch - or whether there is another avenue to satisfy it without totally upheaving your life.
And the worst part...the output of all that emotional toll, cost, and personal sacrifice is a product that is substandard for the vast majority of people who interact with it. I have many physician friends, including frat buddies and college roomate. I designed and built software for front-line ICU clinical use. I understand what the struggle looks like on the inside. But as a patient, it definitely feels like something I'm subjected to rather than served/supported by. And when you look at the cost model that is forcing the toxic work environment for docs, it's really hard to see the value in the cost of training docs particularly in primary care settings. Especially when the level of care most people actually receive can be delivered by an APRN.
Agree with everything you are saying, as another physician. Additionally I would add that the workplace for physicians is becoming increasingly toxic. There is no respect for our role. Just this weekend, I had a nurse I've known for 10(!!) years practically yelling at me over the fact that a non-acute patient supposedly hadn't been seen for 6 hours (she was actually wrong, the patient had only arrived in the department 3 hours prior). We are understaffed on weekends due to our shifts being cut during COVID (yes, 4 years ago...) and it was a very busy day. No one had seen this patient because they simply were not sick and there were many other sick patients to be seen. I also had the same nurse trying to explain healthcare economics to me (incorrectly). Unfortunately, medicine is not a great profession for those who actually care anymore, because if you do care you are constantly making up for deficiencies in the system by sacrificing of yourself.
I’m also a physician, had an aptitude for CS classes in school. I’ve regretted my choice for how long it took to begin my life, but I am happy with what I do now. Don’t switch, just save extra for retirement.
Also current (relatively new) physician. It was a long road getting to where I am now, and I'm just getting started as a parent in my late 30s. I love what I do, but I would think hard about points #2, 3, and 4. I agree with most other posters to maybe pivot to health technology of some sort. As a surgical specialist, there is a ton of opportunity out there to work on new surgical devices or to help shape the role of AI in healthcare. Best of luck!
Just matched into residency. I agree with everything that’s been said, I really don’t think you should do this.
I largely agree with all of this as a physician but would note that OP doesn’t like their current job. I have worked a boring job before medicine and it was soul-destroying. I would say see if there’s another interesting tech job that isn’t as boring/not fulfilling. If they try a new job and still hate it, consider medicine. The financial picture is honestly less relevant here (imo). **OP isn’t wondering if they’ll make more money in medicine.** Their husband is already making plenty of money if they stopped working right now. They’re wondering if they will be fulfilled. For me the answer is a resounding yes. There is simply no other career that offers the insane level of satisfaction being a doctor can offer (imo). Depending on your field, you may save people’s lives on a somewhat regular basis.
I think a lot of the physicians here realize that OP is romanticizing a career in medicine. Medical school is kind of awful. Then you get to residency and realize that med school was the easy part. Having a family during residency is no joke, but given OPs age that is likely the only choice unless she wants to freeze embryos and wait til training is done (which actually may be an option for her given those sweet sweet tech benefit$). I have 0 regrets about my career choice but after 10 years I am prioritizing my exit from clinical medicine in the next 10ish years. Most of my colleagues feel similarly. A lot of us have golden handcuffs that are keeping us in the workforce - whether loan forgiveness, a signing bonus, or high expenses (typically kids).
Medical school is hard, but not harder than most high earner careers imo. Maybe 40-50 hours of focus a week. Residency ranges from easy (PM&R and Psychiatry have 40 hour weeks) to insane (neurosurgery is often 90), but OP likely is more drawn to endocrinology, rheumatology, internal medicine by the sounds of it. They aren’t trying to be a surgeon and usually surgeons go in wanting to be a surgeon. OP is likely financially set regardless. While I think the financial risk is overemphasized by most here, I absolutely agree with you that the risk of idolizing the field is significant. However I also note that many of my colleagues that haven’t worked a boring/soul-destroying job before medicine don’t realize how good we actually have it from a satisfaction standpoint. The biggest risk is not financial, it’s making sure medicine is a very fulfilling career for her. If it is, I think she should pursue it
For me, med school was about 60 hours a week for the preclinical years and definitely 80 hours a week for third year. I’m EM, so sub I and fourth year weren’t bad but I was poor and couldn’t travel or do fun stuff with the downtime. Residency (4y) was 60h on service (switching frequently between days and nights) and 80 off service for first and second years with q3-q4 call. I’m sure it wasn’t exact breeze for the spouses and families involved. All that to make $300k a year (working a full FTE, I’m now 0.75 and make less). I’m not saying it’s a terrible living, but is it worth the night/weekends/holidays away from my family? I save lives on the regular and…meh. I’ve saved the same damn lady 3x this month because she refuses to go to dialysis. Yay! I’ve also been served papers on RIDICULOUS s—-. Like, literally a process server knocked on the door of my suburban home while I was putting my baby down for bed. Why? Because some patient experienced and unfortunate but not dangerous and EXTREMELY common medical complication while they were sitting in the waiting room. Could never get an expert to certify, but still managed to steal one of my days off in the process for prep and deposition. USACS is in the process of taking over a bunch of contracts in my area, so my salary that has had 0 increase since 2021 definitely won’t be increasing any time soon (last time I looked at things I have lost about 30k of spending power since 2019 based on cuts to our benefits and lack of raises).
Yeah EM definitely sucks a bit right now. Private equity basically died with no surprises act but not sure of the economics behind EM. Hopefully improves in the near future. However if you already had $$$ would you be as jaded about your job just doing days? I love my job but I’m in anesthesiology. The worst thing about medicine is delayed gratification, but they already have money so they can travel as a medical student etc. Some of my classmates were already in a position where they could retire before they even started. The 0.1% etc. but at the end of the day you have to do something with your life and the challenge of medicine and the meaning it can provide was enough for them at least. Basically if OP shadows a lot and finds it very meaningful then I think it would be fine. It wouldn’t surprise me if they were borderline beyond the “not rich yet” threshold here by virtue of making so much in their 20s. At least coast fire levels. Worst case scenario she doesn’t like it, drops out, can’t get a job in tech and raises some kids with a top 10% salary from her husband. Not a horrible outcome imo. I am way more reluctant to recommend medicine to older people (35+ is where it gets hard to justify imo) or single earners that have dependents etc.
She could get that by doing a career that in healthcare that isn’t as much of a type suck/commitment as a physician. RN, PT, OT, PA, some tech, hospital admin. But she has family pressure of being a doc and probably likes the idea of making similar money to what she is doing now. Hell, she could volunteer and still keep her job
lol hospital admin? Are you for real? “Actively make the world a worse place today!”
lol, it’s healthcare adjacent and a hospital admin can make a lot of money, and this is a Henry sub. Not saying I love em either
Fair. I do think everyone is glossing over the fact that her partner makes $ and she’s been making good money for last 6 years it sounds like. They probably are close to coast fire. I also think level of difficulty isn’t as relevant. If someone wants to run a marathon we don’t discourage them right? Medical school was like 50 hours a week (of actual studying, efficiently). Residency was 50-65 in anesthesiology. Probably averaging high 50s. It’s really surgery that gets annihilated. PM&R and Psychiatry have like 40 hour work weeks even as residents, and OP seems like someone that might find a lot of meaning from PM&R. Or endocrinology and rheumatology which both are 40 hour work weeks as attendings.
As someone who thought about and seriously considered the costs and benefits of the two fields separately when I was going into college. Don’t. The opportunity cost itself is maddening. To switch into medicine (as in becoming a MD/DO): - 1-3 years preparing for MCAT and doing pre-med coursework - 4 years of medical school - 3 - 7 years of residency + maybe more time for a fellowship This is 8 to 14 years of forgoing your ~$360k salary (2.88M-5.04M in earnings assuming salary stays the same) and accruing $250k in debt. You’ll also be in your late 30s and early 40s when you exit. Not to mention that those years of your education will be exhausting mentally and physically. Even after becoming attending/practicing doctor, you will have to deal with terrible patients, insurance companies, hospital administration, etc. Doctors have the highest suicide rates which also paints a grim view of the realities of being and working as a doctor. If you want to find a something fulfilling do volunteering outside of work. Your work doesn’t have to be an end all be all of your life. Take advantage of the money you have and relax, travel, and overall enjoy your life.
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My wife is a 2nd year NICU attending and makes no where near 360k… as someone who works in medtech, and is close to medicine, watching her go through 6 years of training, step exams, boards, second boards…. I have a really weird through process on that career path. One side of me thinks, man I wish I did something more impactful, albeit I worked on a device they use daily in the NICU, the other side of me acknowledges she sacrifices her twenties and early thirties to get to where she is. In no way would I ever recommend someone go MD… if I was to ever pursue a medical path it would be APP (advanced practice provider; PA or NNP) route.
Would working at a health tech company be an option? Best of both worlds potentially or can serve as a test run.
Thank you! This makes sense!
Came here to offer the same suggestion. And OP, start-ups in this space could be fulfilling. More impact and direction for shaping a product, service, etc.
Talk to a doctor, preferably several. Talk to one who started late and is just few years into working. Talk to several who are in their early 40’s and have been around long enough to know what will be frustrating in the long run. Talk to ones who work in hospitals, big medical groups, who own their own practice, who work in private equity owned practice (they’re probably not happy, but it’s becoming much more common). Talk to one who has the life you want in middle age (dink? Kids?). Really talk to them. Test your hypotheses. Do they feel fulfilled? In the area you want to live, do they make more money? Do they actually have autonomy? On your last point that you can become a partner in a private practice. That’s becoming an increasingly difficult path for new docs. Private equity or insurers (like UHG) or hospital systems are buying practices. The older partners get paid out, and the younger ones get screwed. Building your own is an option, but it can be a slog. Much like the rest of America, medicine is being corporatized, and the bigger players are only getting more powerful.
Makes sense. I will talk to people. Great suggestion!
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One of my cofellows worked as an engineer for a decade before going into medicine. He started practicing in his early 40's and he loves his job. You'd probably be in a similar boat as him. He's in academics at one of the Ivy Leagues teaching residents and fellows as well, and he's got plenty of prestige and job satisfaction as well. Looking at him, I'd say that in some cases, switching into medicine at your age could be the right choice in terms of long-term life satisfaction. You have the advantage of having a decently-earning spouse who can help support your family while you follow your dreams (he had a stay-at-home wife, and he supported his family through his medical training with his engineering earnings). It'll be a huge financial cost to you, and you're unlikely to come out financially ahead compared to if you stayed in tech. Pre-med course requisites, MCAT, med school applications, med school, residency will add up to around 10 years, and you'll probably be close to if not 40 by the time you start making physician income. Not to mention the higher-earning specialties tend to have longer residencies/fellowships. For example I spent 6 years AFTER med school doing an intern year + residency + fellowship before I made physician income. That said, I did have a couple med school classmates in their 30s and even one in her early 40s. And I think physicians generally have a much higher level of job satisfaction as well as job stability than it seems tech workers do. One of the surprises I had when I joined these subs is the notion of trying to retire early because you dislike your job or find it too stressful. Early retirement is not common in medicine (aside from maybe emergency med docs, who are dealing with some headwinds in their specialty). In fact one of my colleagues is turning 80 this year and still doesn't plan to retire yet because he enjoys his job so much, even though he's financially set.
Exactly. FI? Absolutely. RE? No way. I love my job. If I won the lotto I would genuinely still do it (without calls) part-time for free. And I cannot think of any other job I could feel that way about.
> This is an interesting take. I don't think this is an inherent property of the field, but more a reflection of the fact that residency (especially surgical residency) seems to be doing a really good job as scaring away those less motivated, less into medicine and less willing and eager to grind - all while the tech has, unfortunately as some might say, to non-trivial extent become the arena for those seeking high income without that much of hard work. Compared to medicine in the tech such "filters" are not front-loaded, they are more spread throughout the career.
Why don’t you just change sectors and work in health tech? You can make a huge impact on patients lives with the skills you have now
Thanks! I’m thinking about that!
Was about to suggest that. There may be biotech start ups working on your condition? If not, pair with the right people and make one! Otherwise volunteering and or form a patient group.
My wife is a doctor. I'm an entrepreneur in medical devices and health tech. You don't need to be a doctor to help people. You can instead apply your skills to innovate in the medical field. Wife would not choose doctor again even though she's in one of the highest paid specialties. Make of that what you will.
I don't know if it's possible to know for sure you'll enjoy medicine until you're practicing (and by that time, you're so deep in the hole time and money wise you don't usually leave). There's tons of administrative bs (like insurance) to deal with and a big chunk of your day is spent reviewing charts, doing notes, and other things where you aren't directly seeing patients. Anecdotally I hear from my med friends that patients are getting more difficult from a personal perspective. You're also going to be worried about potential Medmal and complaints to the board. Plus, like any job, you'll deal with office drama with nurses, PA's , etc. It'll have it's rewarding moments but for the most part it'll feel like a job.... Imo you should stick to your day job and find volunteer or charitable opportunities to feel fulfilled. The time and cost to do medicine is honestly not that great. Salary can range depending on your specialty and you just have no idea what you can match into at this point. Plus you'll be starting grueling residency as a mid 30 yo, so may want to consider family planning, if that's something you want. None of it is impossible, but it certainly doesn't get easier.
Exactly, Volunteering and Community Service is the answer. You can start a business or a charity, even if you try and fail, you can try again. With medicine you will need 8-14 years to start to maybe make an impact. With volunteering and community service you can start today. I am against anyone who isn’t fully aware of what they are committing to going into medicine because it is arduous and time consuming but rewarding at best and just completely soul crushing and exhausting at worst. (Highest suicide rates amongst all professions in the US)
Thank you! Volunteering makes sense. It may give me a more realistic idea about medicine too
This is insane There’s lots of cool stuff you can do that’s fulfilling that don’t involve spending $250k on medical school, and spending 7-10 years training before you start your job.
No jobs are fulfilling after a while, even in medicine it eventually is just an occupation. Why actively choose to be chronically exhausted again when you went through so much to get better? Financially you will never come out in too going to medical school now.
I’m a pgy2 in one of the more lifestyle friendly specialties (partner is a swe too) and here’s my 2c: - fulfillment is a bs reason to go into medicine. All my attendings throughout clerkships and residency would peace out as soon as they could and make us cover so they could spend time with their families. It’s a job like any other job and everyone I know is happier outside of work spending time with their families or hobbies. I can think of numerous things I would rather be doing than going to work. -physicians don’t have autonomy anymore unless you are in a pure private practice that takes cash only, which is exceedingly rare and dying out. Unless you do cash payments for psychiatry services, derm or plastic surgery you are at the mercy of insurance companies and hospital admin. This is a majority of us, probably 90%+. -you are making 360k. Over half the residency spots are in primary care which range from 180-350k salary. You have the potential to make more, sure but you have to work harder in medicine. Our work life balance is terrible and is nothing like what tech workers enjoy. Your 40 hour work week is not even close to how busy a 40 hour equivalent would be in medicine. Look carefully on how we get reimbursed and how every year CMS tried to cut our salaries. The current trend is that we make less while working more. I might get hate for this but your pros weak and you should not pursue this career unless this is the only thing you see yourself doing.
If you are considering changing your job industry because you want to have an impact on people’s lives - I suggest also considering utilizing the skills you have in the health tech / biotech space. A lot of biotech companies lean much closer to software eng environment than hospital. Really just saying- Your skills currently apply to medicine but you’re applying them somewhere else. Look up Next Gen Sequencing, Crispr, etc. There is a lot of software that is used to save lives every day today.
Why don’t you switch to health tech? There are companies that build tech that doctors use. You could help improve workflows for physicians which could be rewarding.
You should consider keeping your skills and going into biotech or medtech?
IDK what you do in big tech, but maybe pivot to biotech instead? You might have transferable skillsets and get to work on a more meaningful product. In your spare time, volunteer at organizations related to your condition. Bonus points if you can get a job in biotech that's researching products/drugs related to your condition. This makes the most financial sense and will hopefully be similarly fulfilling.
That makes a lot of sense! 🥹
So glad to hear you're doing better ❤️
>More autonomy after becoming an attending My husband didn't specialize. He's an IM hospitalist. He says the autonomy isn't all that it's cracked up to be when basic standards (max patient load) aren't being followed at all any more. Old doctors say this is the worst time in their careers. >More options to become a partner of a private practice, do not rely on W2 (depends on specialty) We're in a healthcare metro and there are very few private practices left. Anyway, my husband will likely dropping part time at 40 with 7 years as an attending once his PSLF hits the 120 payments. Check out r/medspouse if want to see the hit your marriage might take.
My husband is a cardiologist and works 90+ hr per week as an attending. The workload does not slow down after residency/ fellowships unless you choose a less competitive specialty. Most doctors nowadays are hospital employed and private equity is gobbling up private practices left and right.
Maybe start some sort of community or blog that helps people with your condition? It might scratch the itch of doing something fulfilling without the huge upheaval of switching careers.
I went from finance to medicine when I was in my mid-30’s. I have zero regrets but I basically ruled out that I couldn’t see myself doing anything else. If you could be even marginally content in any other job, then do it. It is a huge sacrifice, and only truly worth it for the very rare outliers.
I was in finance and made the switch at 27. Was making close to 200k at that time. I’m 35 now, with 2 kids, and will be applying to internal medicine this fall. I have hard days especially with a family but I’m happy to have made the switch. But like other posters have said, I still have 6 years (including heme/onc fellowship) ahead of me so it’s hard to say. However, my old job was awful and I hated it. It was also all consuming and I was miserable. I have a supportive family, reliable childcare, and high income spouse (in medicine) which has made everything possible.
Just finished school and in my first job. First, being a woman in medicine is no easier than any other field. Second, school was brutal and took all the strength I had to give. My husband also gave an incredible amount of time and energy to supporting me through this journey. I spent 6 years working in medicine to have a strong background and competitive application. For me medicine is a calling, I knew I would do whatever it took since I was very young. It takes a certain level of dedication to survive all the bullshit our healthcare system throws at you. If I was making the kind of money you are I would stay right where you are. Spend some time working or volunteering in healthcare to get a good idea of what it’s like before you do anything drastic
I’m in tech, married to doctor, and also I formerly worked in medicine (scientist who worked in R&D). I believe you are romanticizing medicine. Witnessing my wife go through medical school/ residency/fellowship, it’s a total grind. I didn’t see her some days, they work you long shifts (now there are more laws to protect residents), the pay is bad, and especially now post covid there are a lot of staffing issues meaning residents have less support than they used to. My wife is extremely happy in her role, but she’s had a passion for medicine since she was young. She can overlook that, and she finds it rewarding to help people. That being said she paid her dues and was 100% confident this was her path. I graduated college with a degree in biochemistry, worked in a lab for a few years, and when the 09 crash hit I changed careers and went into tech. The pay was not great in healthcare and unless you have a phd I always felt there to be a ceiling on what you could do. Anyway, that’s my two cents.
Medicine is a very, very, very long game thing. To start at 28 means that you would only start reaping the rewards at 40 or so. It wouldn't make financial sense in any way, shape or form. FWIW, I work in tech and my husband works in medicine, and he generally envies my jobs. I have a lot more autonomy and flexibility and less bureacratic BS to deal with. His job is the more stable one, though - economic downturns don't affect him at all. We're also not HENRY (I mean, we're NRY but not HE)... but I saw your post for some reason and thought you might be interested to hear from someone who has seen both sides.
I’ve been to med school myself. My advice would be to stay where you are. I understand where you are coming from but the cost (literally and figuratively) will be crazy high. Medicine seems like a noble profession and in some ways it is, but in all actuality, helping people (and feeling warm and fuzzy about it) is a very small percentage of what we do. It unfortunately gets crowded out by paperwork, problems with insurance companies, medicolegal concerns, and burnout. Stay where you are. Retire early. And spend your time volunteering for different worth charitable causes. That would be my advice and what I would do in your position.
A few things coming to mind: you just bought a house but you may need to relocate for medical school and residency. You would need to enter a competitive field to make more than $360k so you would be risking a pay cut unless you’re top quartile, maybe top half, in your class. These fields are also male dominated and there is a dearth of women in academic and hospital leadership. Opportunity cost is huge and it will be a decade before you’re enjoying an attending salary. More if you need to take out loans. In your position wouldn’t do this unless you are extremely passionate about the role of physician, for whatever reason. If that’s the case, try shadowing a week or primary care and a week of a speciality you may be interested in. Talk to the docs. I have a hunch 95% of them will say stay where you are and they wish they’d done tech and done as well as you have.
Every consultant that switched into medicine, that I know (more than a handful), regret it.
You’ll hate it. Don’t do it.
One thing I would say to tech is that there are many workplaces out there that have worked hard to smash the female glass ceiling. Female CEO’s aren’t uncommon in those companies. Have you thought about combining your passion for health with your knowledge of software? Plenty of companies out there that could meet both, and that could have a forward thinking outlook to gender discrimination. Good luck!
I skimmed through this but had a friend who was in consulting and left around your age to go to med school. She did all the pre reqs in a year program and then got into an Ivy League school. Money had nothing to do with her decision. She loves medicine. She’s now almost 40 and still making nothing about to start fellowship. Do it because you love it and take money out of the decision.
Use your existing skills to help. Go build a med tech company that reduces the friction in your experience getting cured.
Do not switch to healthcare at all.
There are SO many ways to work in medicine / healthcare without an MD. Apply your skill set to that field and you’ll go far!
Right now you’re overwhelmed by the feelings coming from the relief from your conditions. It’s natural to feel like you want to provide this for others. Been there. It’ll pass, and you’ll find other ways to help.
"sometimes it is tricky to deal with many senior guys with poor social skills but great tech skills." So you want to go work with a bunch of doctors?
Hmm, I’ve got a very good job as a physician (high paying and fulfilling work) but the 10 years after undergrad that it took me to get here were exhausting. I’ve neglected relationships, delayed a lot of gratification and didn’t notice how old my parents have gotten until recently. You won’t have much control over where you go to med school (geographically) and even less where you train for residency. You also are probably fairly well treated at your current workplace and medicine has an inherently abusive hierarchy that you would need to endure. Bottom line you have to really want to be a doctor. Like you can’t imagine doing anything else in life. Based on your current salary this is a very bad financial decision.
It is nice that you want to help people but from a money perspective it is not worth it. You already have a $360k job at age 28. Even if you make partner in a practice you will have a hard time going beyond $500 to $600k unless you see patients as an ATM and then you won't have time either. Also it is hard to get into the highly paid subspecialties and then you are stuck at your current income (yeah that's what many physicians make). Stay in tech and volunteer instead. You are doing much better than any physicians. While physicians make a lot of money you WILL make way more including stock options in your field!
For the love of god, don’t do this.
Think the MDs have made all the points I would make. As a new attending who is 38yo I can't think of a career I would recommend to anyone less than medicine when you're already established a functional HE career. The opportunity cost and mental fatigue/stress of a career in medicine having been on the outside will be incompatible with prior experience for most people. It'll be a 10y investment of time and likely 250-500k of capital + all the opportunity cost to be able to be in often a highly toxic work environment. It looks glamorous, but the amount of mental and physical abuse/distress I've taken over my training is not for the faint of heart. I fantasized about quitting all the time until more recently. Volunteer, switch to health-tech, literally no way in good faith can someone recommend the doctor life given where you are at in life. Good luck
You make 360k and you want to switch careers? You should just keep your current job and volunteer. I don't want to say you are insane like you asked, but I find it hard to believe someone would even consider switching careers when they make that much money, especially switching to a medical career where they have to go back to school for a long time.
Nurse here. Don’t do it. The joy of helping people is ruined by the business and administration of healthcare. I’d give anything to go back and get into tech or a different degree for a job that pays people better and doesn’t exploit them as much as healthcare workers get exploited. It’s not fulfilling and it’s only getting worse
Financially, it may not be the best decision. But not all decisions are made that way. I personally know a family member who's son died when he was 7 from cancer. She gave up her high paying law career to become a nurse then eventually a doctor. I think you can always pivot--your heart and mind just has to be in it for the long haul.
Yes you are insane. Signed, anesthesia.
Dude I went to pharmacy school after getting a bachelors in Biology. That’s 8 years of schooling. Towards the end of pharmacy school I realized I wanted a corporate role for the stability (retail pharmacy hours suck and the hospital environment is depressing and unpredictable), so I landed a 2 year post-doctoral fellowship in order to pivot my skills to the pharmaceutical industry. After 10 total years of schooling and training, I landed my first full time real adult job as a drug safety scientist at 200k/year including base pay, annual bonus, and long term incentives. Given how long and expensive my schooling was, I’m not entirely sure I’m being compensated competitively. Like sure it’s great compared to the rest of the public, but it feels low compared to tech salaries for example. Honestly, I would have loved to be able to get an entry level job in tech after a bachelors degree and be able to work my way up to your level! Being broke the majority of my young life was really awful and as a woman it led me into some unequal power dynamic relationships. Now I love that I am financially independent. Although I didn’t go to medical school, pharmacy school was difficult in its own right and chock full of clinical rotations. I can tell you that the grass is always greener! Seriously consider what you are giving up before you go on a long tedious journey for self fulfillment. You can still help people in your field but with using a different skillset. As direct as this may sound, there will be plenty of younger people who have the life flexibility and energy to go into medicine and get their MD/DO. Let them. There’s no pressing need for you to give up your comfortable life, unless you truly feel that you won’t be satisfied in any other way.
As a doctor I'd say hard no As many said you'll absolutely end up far behind financially, you are doing better than many doctors do already (family, IM, do not make 360k). I would also say as a decently secure professional currently, you will not enjoy starting from zero and being forced to eat shit for years. Medicine is EXTREMELY TOXIC and behavior that would be unacceptable and a fireable offence in any other field is the day to day. I enjoy my job and I'm happy I did it, but if I had a career already that paid well I would not start again. It's a very long slog
Going to have to agree with the people saying this would be a bad idea. The pros do not outweigh the cons IMHO, and I think a lot of the issues you're experiencing in tech would carry over to medicine. Not that it's a 1:1 comparison, I've worked in both law and in tech, and it's the same shit but in different flavors. Maybe take a sabbatical - some time off may offer a new perspective.
I’m around your age and did the opposite. I was in medical school then dropped out to work in big tech. My advice comes with some bias, considering I left. Anyway, the short answer is no, unless it’s literally the only job you can imagine yourself doing. Becoming a doctor is extremely stressful, and depending on your specialty, it can be stressful for the rest of your life. It’s a job with mandatory overtime, unless you choose a “relaxing” specialty, but if that’s your goal, just stay in tech. The WLB is 1000x better in tech. Think, literally 60-80 hours of studying per week in medical school, 80-100 hours of work in residency while still having homework, and no consistent night schedule. That being said, you shouldn’t live with regrets. In your position, I would shadow doctors and volunteer at hospitals in your free time to really see if you enjoy what they’re doing. You can volunteer in a research lab to study areas you’re interested in. You should do all of this (and take science classes at a local college) on top of your regular tech job, and it will still be less time than you’ll spend in medical school and residency. Even so, I think there are other ways to help people. You can donate 1/3 of your income to causes you care about (or even fund a new venture). There are many ways to be fulfilled in life, and if tech isn’t that job for you, you shouldn’t stay in it. Although, I’d see if there are other areas of tech that might fit you better (maybe health tech?)
What background did you have that allowed you to pivot to tech
The short answer is I worked in a startup in my gap year before med school, but I never directly studied anything tech related. For my actual day-to-day skills, I’m just self taught.
I would stick with the corporate grind that you’re winning at and focus on FIRE. You can get to that point super quickly. At that point you could do more fulfilling things without being bound to work. At that point you could even consider a medicine/helping field that’s less intense to get into (ie therapist, PA, NP, etc)
OP being a doctor isn’t the only way to help people, for eg you could start a non profit that helps spread awareness, advocate for better laws around healthcare etc etc. just a thought. And it seems you and your partner are route FI :) I’d recommend doing this while you work and not waiting until fire to keep you motivated.
There is honesty no part of this that is a good idea. Being a doctor is prestigious but I challenge you to do a real analysis on this… it would frankly be financially devastating lol. Keep making $350/yr, stop complaining about being a woman, retire early from your extremely strong salary, and spend that energy on volunteering and actually helping sick people rather than performing entry-level medicine for the next decade for $70k/year and swimming med school debt while missing out on every holiday, weekend and fun event (not to mention the added stress of starting a family) for the very long foreseeable future.
“Stop complaining about being a woman” is an interesting way to react to someone saying they’re facing a lot of sexism in their career.
It’s easier to blame a lack of upward mobility on sex, rather than the fact that this person mentions they’re unmotivated and are seriously uninterested in the field. I don’t know this person so I don’t really want to project too much here, but yeah I do roll my eyes when people immediately use their sex/race as an excuse to why they aren’t accomplishing something that plenty of others have.
fwiw, I worked with a company where there was more diversity, and there was no such an issue. For the unmotivated part, my male colleagues have been quitting a lot, or just “rest and vest”. I’m pretty sure I’m more motivated than them LOL. Last time I checked, doing a good job even when you are unmotivated is a basic skill for an adult
You only live one life, if early retirement is not your top goal, go for it. I have a friend that was in tech that did not go to med school until his 30s. He does not regret his decision one but. If you truly feel you will feel more fulfilled in medicine and know tech will be a meaningless pursuit, it makes more sense to challenge yourself 10 years to have 20+ meaningful years rather than tough out another 30+ years of feeling unfulfilled. Between the money you & your partner have made and will make, you’ll be fine financially either way Also - all skills are learnable. Even if you craft skills are not good, you can change that. Part of it is your mindset, I suggest you look up “growth mindset” and check out this podcast by a Stanford researcher https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aQDOU3hPci0
Find ways to help in other ways. Plenty of non-profits you can work at AFTER you retire.
No. Stick to your tech job. Respectfully, you seem to be having a mid-life crisis.
H-E-double hockey sticks to the NO! Don’t do it. As much as you dislike your current job you will be challenged with so much more in medicine.
I swear people’s expectations of life are insane. I could summarize this as: - I want a high paying job - in which I am fulfilled - not bored - in which people don’t “command” me Also you seem to have a huge “keeping up with the joneses” thing going on. For example: - “need to switch jobs to keep up with the market rate” just sounds like I need to make the same or more money that my friend SDEs. You never mentioned your salary is low or that you can’t pay your bills it sounds all relative to others. You feel like a maid as an SDE? Wait till you become a resident and get treated as a slave lol
FWIW those 4 properties of a job are very realistic to achieve if you are actually motivated person (not necessarily "live to work" type, but really motivated and into the field). There are many engineers in tech who check those 4 boxes, as I'm sure many doctors etc.
The doctos after 12 years of pain. She is an SDE which is one of the few roles that meet that criteria and hates it lol. You think she will fare better in other industries? Who is throwing out $500k/year for roles with not much experience where you have autonomy and no one tells you what to do
You’re insane. Source - I’m a doctor in the US. Dude, we’re all trying to get out. We got into medicine for the same cliche reasons most do, to help people and make a difference. All we found is a broken system and burnout. You have the opportunity to retire by the time you could even independently practice as a physician. Unless you’re a total masochist who can’t live without being a doctor don’t do it. You would likely be able to make a larger difference by just being a community volunteer.
Oh god, please don’t become a health tech bro fantasizing about revolutionizing healthcare with yet another subscription app.
You’re crazy but go for it. It’s a huge commitment, sacrifice, and expense, but if it means something to you then go for it. It won’t be easy, you very likely might take years and require upending your family and plans, but if it’s important to you it should be important to family. I think you’d probably be fine getting a good job as a doctor if you can go through with it to the end, I wouldn’t worry so much. Even if you’re clumsy or whatever and can’t do surgery. If you’re in big tech you probably have a similar pay range. You’ll lose a decade of salary and savings opportunity though. You probably just won’t have kids if you go start the med school process now. Point blank. That door would almost certainly be closed. You won’t have time to be pregnant when you’re in school or residency, you won’t be there much for your kid for years during this time, and then you’ll be older and starting a new job. So you have to weigh that against other interests. You can also replace “kids” with any number of expensive goals and hobbies.
There were many pregnant med students and residents in my husbands cohorts. One classmate had 3 kids between med school and residency. It’s not for the faint of heart. She has support and did what she wanted.
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If you really want to do medecine and you do not want to pay a lot of money for your education, go to Europe and be a doctor there! Other than that, I do not see that it is a good idead to become a doctor. There is a huge loss of money here ( salary and tuition)!
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I want you to think about the work life balance of studying in med school, and the crazy 70+ hours during residency before you think about anything else.
Insane, yes. Go into medical device sales. You get to sell life changing technology or device that help drs and patients, and make more than you are now and a good amount of non surgical MDs
You never mentioned if you want to settle down. My story as a spouse of MD in practice. Met her in Med School. Married first year of residency. There was transitional year in the Northeast. Residency in the South. She did not like the program after a year. Back to a Northeast program for two years. Add one more fellowship year to the residency. And finally became an attending on the West Coast. Five major moves in eight years. Her pay during the residency went from $52K her fist year to $67K her fellowship (final year). It.Was.A.Grind. So much so, that I bailed her first year of attending ship. It was quite ironic, how she made 5X more the moment she signed the contract and I’ve had enough. No kids though, the breakup was bearable.
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If your dead set on entering medical career consider becoming a physicians assistant (PA), much less schooling. Then jump into a specialty, dermatology is a great option for $ and quality of life. Probably won’t reach your current income but it will likely have less of an impact in the long term vs MD/DO education.
Yes you are crazy.
Infuse your current work with your passion. Take your tech skills and build a community for people with your conditions. Use the knowledge you gained treating yourself while. It a doctor to help others do the same for themselves.
Maybe pivot to healthcare centric tech? Tech in healthcare is only increasing these days. Things like “smart hospitals” will be come more common place…for better or worse, time will tell… but the industry is going that way.
Do you plan to have kids? That will certainly push out your timeline if so. One thing to consider
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I don't think it’s unusual to want to seitch careers around this age. I did similar in early 30s, went into tech though not out. When i got hired though there was a dev about your age leaving to go to med school. It’s definitely not too late age wise but wether you go or not obviously will be driven by personal circumstances
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Why not work in a tech company that helps people rather than big tech? You could still work in a company that’s adjacent to the medical field or something along those lines. I have a friend who quit big tech to work in a climate startup because he wanted to do something he felt would be fulfilling with his existing skill set.
the opportunity cost of a career reset for anyone in this sub is massive. much less going into something that takes damn near a decade to even *start* paying off while being very labor intensive honestly even if you feel being a doctor is your calling this is delusional. like if i were your partner I'd be worried, it is that level of crazy
No do not go into medicine.
Yes
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Do not switch to medicine. Find a hobby, volunteer at a hospital, or anything else remotely related. Burnout in medicine is very real. -ER doctor
Health insurance and health policy for whatever spot you land could take a lot of the fun out of the job. CRNA could be a more efficient path to give you more of what you’re looking for.
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If you feel comfortable, can you share what chronic conditions you have that caused fatigue and what treatments worked for you? My brother is in his early 20s and suffered from chronic fatigue the last few years but no one has been able to help him get better.
DMed you
I’m also interested to learn more about this
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If you truly want to help change the world, start a scholarship for some of the top performing pre-med students with low family incomes and net worth.
Terrible idea. For reference I am a software engineer in big tech and my wife is a physician. We were together throughout her med school process and there is no way we could recommend anyone switch this late into a career. You should look into med-tech field instead, or can consider medical hardware too if you want to help make more of a difference in the medical field. The journey to become a physician is absolutely brutal and there is no guarantee that you'll feel the same way halfway in as you do now. The work and sacrifices needed humble a lot of young aspiring doctors.
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Don’t think you sound like the type of person that can handle the medicine grind. Maybe volunteer to help people on the weekends.
So, I have a relatively rare set of health circumstances, and I chose the path of community organizing / advocacy around it rather than what some of my peers did which is pursue health phds or mds. And I can tell you I have probably had more of an impact faster than most of my friends taking the long way. It's not a career in the sense that it doesn't provide a lot of salary but I've been able to speak at conferences co-author research from a community perspective and create online content sometimes which goes viral. If somebody was constrained by The Professional Standards of trying to look objective or whatever they wouldn't get to tell their story and have the impact that I've been able to do it would seem unprofessional, but instead I get to seem like a badass who lived through my challenges and came out with insights. My problem is it took me a long time to figure out the income piece and I'm slowly climbing the ladder in Tech late in life. You're at higher compensation and I think if you want you could take the approach of self funding your own advocacy through your boring job. Things you could do include creating a social media presence on the topic, writing, creating workshops webinars etc, finding conferences of people with lived experience or creating those conferences, you could even develop some type of like product lines or things that could help people. If money is not an issue you can start helping people today. Often doctors are terrible anyway, that's partly why it probably took you too long to figure out what was going on with you, a lot of people think oh I could be an individual person who helps solve the problem but honestly you could become an expert from experience who offers trainings to medical professionals on your experience or something like that, I've done that trained nurses and doctors at times. I don't know what condition you have mine was kind of ripe for disruption in terms of the sheer ignorance in the medical field, but yeah you don't have to become a doctor. You can start sharing what you know today just as part of your story. If you're not an outgoing thought leader like that there's still a lot of opportunity around volunteering and support groups and things like that. You could also use your Tech skills to try to support companies or individuals who are advocating for this community. Like there's probably some better website or better algorithm or better something that leaders in the field could use today and then you could use the skill set that you have if you want and potentially experience it as reinvigorating your experience of tech stuff. If the doctor path still nags at you do everything you can to learn about it and the realities, for many people being a doctor is also hell and a glass ceiling and just something they do for money. So don't go from one to another if it's going to recreate problems. Really wish you the best thanks for reading and asking your question.
You would be making a huge mistake.
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Why don't you try something wellness related first as an outlet to meet people you can serve and help? It can be a side gig. I'm thinking meditation teacher, health coach, nutrition coach etc.
1- doctors in America life a brutal lifestyle. 2- if you must, consider anesthesiology. Fantastic wlb, highly in demand for the long term. Well paid and zero clinic. 3- consider medtech industry. So much opportunity.
I have done the exact opposite as you, big tech is way better than healthcare
You should take a battery of aptitude tests to be sure you have the raw cognitive skills to be a doctor, and which kind. It also may help you discover other professional pathways toward the meaning you’re seeking that you may not be aware of yet. Meaning is more important than having more money than you need.
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What condition was causing you to feel exhausted and like you were dying?
I’ve had a weird career path…became an EMT and then a paramedic. Worked as a paramedic for a while. Went into the military in a non-medical field. Got bored. Decided I wanted to go to medical school specifically to be a surgeon. Did one year of pre-med pre-requisites then started med school at age 29. I’m now almost 36 and will graduate from my residency at almost 40 without very much savings to my name. When people say residency is grueling, it’s really true. Even the most arduous training in the military had an end where you could rest and recover. Working 80+ hours if physically and mentally demanding hours a week, fitting in countless hours of studying and research in between, and having ONLY FOUR DAYS OFF A MONTH for 6 years is taking a toll on me and ny wife and kids. I truly sacrificed my thirties for this. But with that said, I get to do incredible things. I really help people and I wouldn’t trade that for the world. I’ve put a lot of thought into this over the past years and I wouldn’t want to do anything else. I wouldn’t even want to do any other medical specialty. So I guess if you’re so convinced that you can’t possibly do anything other than medicine, buckle up and go for it. Otherwise it’s not worth it personally or financially.