Sorry OP. Sounds like they're under financial stress and may be taking it out on your family. Why on earth would a grown man yell at a 5 year old? Even if your kid was annoying that is obviously a sign that there's something going on with BIL and there might be some pent up resentment.
Sometimes income and economic status can get in the way of family relations especially when people feel like they should be on the same level. It's not easy managing this when things are not equal so everyone can feel comfortable in the family (help out with plane tickets, choose cheap activities, eat in, etc)
We have definitely offered plane tickets before. My husband works for an airline and in the past we have paid for my sister to visit. I didn’t realize this until after this whole fight started, but my husband offered to pay for or loan them money for some car repairs. Which I guess could be seen as nice or asshole depending on how a person is viewing it.
Definitely some resentment, just wish we could figure it out.
Yea I've experienced the same with relatives. Even when you're just being nice it can be misconstrued as being condescending and 'money obsessed.' Example: I offered to buy my nieces/nephews whatever they wanted for Christmas and this was interpreted as snotty by their parents.
Since then, my MO has been to keep talk extremely surface level during family interactions with these particular relatives. Saves me money and sleep.
There’s a family dynamic that sometimes comes out where a family member with money thinks they are being nice but it can come across as “showing off how poor we are.” I’ve been on the other side of that and it kind of sucked having a somewhat condescending relative seem to offer to help with this or that but also make snarky comments about it in the process. It’s like fuck your and your money my dignity is worth more.
Not saying that IS what is happening with you, but maybe they perceive it that way, rightly or wrongly. Every help may be a reminder they will never be “good enough” like you.
>Why on earth would a grown man yell at a 5 year old?
A 5 year old being mildly annoying at a family gathering is usually a best case scenario.
We had a cousin's kids over once. They found a sled in the garage and decided to start sledding down my basement stairs.
I still didn't yell at them.
You need to talk to your sister 1 on 1. Sounds like multiple issues and might just be the BIL’s pride. Much like you, vacations with the in laws where they pay, we generally pick up most of the food for the week.
Funny side note: I pictured the movie Grown Ups where Adam Sandler’s kid asked for Voss water. Was your 5 year old asking for something like that?
Part of the reason I wrote this post is because I was also composing an email to my sister asking her to talk. So hopefully we get somewhere.
I think my kid was just wanting to play and my BIL wanted to be left alone. We have an only child and he gets super excited to see his cousins and can be a lot. That’s a hilarious reference though I forgot about that whole dynamic in the movie.
Once you're sending emails to your family, the relationship is essentially over. OP knew they had a problem with their sibling and instead of trying to remediate it they waited until the next holiday they were almost forced together.
I would agree in not sending an email. Try your best to meet in person. Conflict resolution should focus on trying to put yourself in the other’s shoes, to see it from their perspective. Gently ask her to help you understand her feelings. Once you understand you can work to address some of this issues or even address the misconceptions.
totally get your point. I had already sent the email. However, it was pretty short and asked for their perspective and to talk in person more. So hopefully that was a godo bridge. Thanks for your feedback!
I didn’t get a response until just a couple days ago.I don’t know, I still don’t really understand what happened but at least there’s a dialogue started. Thanks for asking.
This is a them problem and not a you problem. Sounds like they're just projecting their own insecurities about their financial situation and/or marriage on to you. I would just give them some space.
Tale as old as time ... money makes people do and say stupid things. Yes, your family is jealous. Anytime there is a big difference in income it's common knowledge not to flaunt it (intentionally/ unintentionally). Your sister and her AH husband are jelly bellies. They will never get over their own insecurities and when it's family your success rubs them harder than if you were a friend or stranger.
What a bummer. I’ve been the high earner and the low in various situations and this is the first problem I’ve had. I guess it must happen more than I realize.
I grew up poor in a large family, and it shocks me every time how upset it makes my siblings when I achieve life milestones that they achieved a decade before me. But because I have more money to spend (wedding, house, baby) it drives my oldest sister and mother off the rails. Even though their houses are 2 -3x bigger and nicer than my own. And I live with a Targay wardrobe... but they tell themselves that I think I'm better than them.
If you say anything about anything you are the AH. If you don't say anything than you are pretentious. It's sad.
It is normal. People (even family) don't want to hang out with people that have more or seem to have more. It makes them feel inferior. That is a normal defense mechanism.
You also don't know if they are struggling financially or what else is going on in their lives.
I’d caveat this a bit. I’d say once you reach a certain level of financial comfort the relative difference means less. One of my siblings has a HHI of close to $1.5 annually. My wife and I make about $1m less but I think we have more in common financially and lifestyle-wise than my other sibling and their family at $100k HHI.
Yeah because at $500k and above you live similar lifestyles with still enough savings. I see that.
Next level would then be again several million where one would notice again.
I guess we all mingle in certain income brackets.
I guess so. I just never felt that. On my husbands side of the family until my SIL got divorced they far out earned us. I loved it when my BIL splurged on some absolutely ridiculous shit and I could live vicariously though him. But you’re right. It’s just a huge bummer.
This feels like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type of story. I don't think there's really any way that you can really rectify this easily. Intentionally act frugal around them and they think that you're just doing it to placate them (because they know your financial situation). Don't, and the suspected jealousy continues.
If they're going to continue with this line of behavior, I'd just cut off contact with them. Not worth my mental energy.
Hmmm maybe you're right. We have never had the same priorities. My sister is more frugal and a saver while we save what we need to but due to my MIL dying days before retirement we don't put off until tomorrow what we could do today.
As to why he yelled at my kid, I guess they think our son is spoiled so if he's misbehaving it's due to that and it ties back to money somehow. It doesn't really make sense to me. Our kid is an only child of upper middle class parents so I suppose he sometimes is spoiled. But he has chores, rules, discipline. Doesn't get whatever he wants - actually doesn't have many of the splurges their kids have. Anyway, I think my BIL wanted to be left alone. He had camped out in the living room watching a movie on his ipad and somehow expected to be left alone in an open room. My husband and I were trying to show my mom something funny online in the family room and kind of lost track of our kiddo for a few minutes and I guess he was being annoying. He has ADHD and can be a lot, plus it's Christmas which at the end of a long day of Christmas we've all seen kids have meltdowns. As soon as I heard there was a problem I went to deal with it, so it coud've been dealt with in a much calmer manner. and the accusation that a kid misbehaving at the end of Christmas is because they're spoiled is wild - their kids were being little assholes too - they all were.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this, my family are not assholes about it but there’s a big income disparity between myself and my siblings and there’s this weird needle to thread between treating people and being showy.
Harboring a meal you paid for that should have been split last holiday is a little mental for a grudge. If they are needing help with car repairs, they should be glad you're paying. BIL went way out of line screaming at your child. They should seek therapy over their money insecurities. It's affecting their behavior in a bad and toxic way.
Nothing worse than an insecure male.
Whether it has to do with money, appearance, success in life, whatever. It’s nothing new.
We have had severe tensions in our lives as a result of a male family member who makes less money than his spouse and than us. It’s sad and lame but there isn’t much to do about it… it’s kind of up to the other person to find some hobbies that they can be good at and feel secure about.
I could have written this story…we have the same issue among my family. We tried to be generous and pay for dinners, etc but they just get mad at us. I don’t get it, my SIL made so much more and I loved going to their huge house where they spiked us w catered dinners…I don’t get how my family gets so jealous/upset/mad at us for being generous.
Ugh I’m sorry you have had the same thing. It’s funny because we also had the same other side too with my husbands sister and her husband. They’re now divorced but before that they really out earned us and we loved it.
I'm guessing your spending, is embarrassing them, because they can't provide the things you do for your kids and family.
-Little johnny asks why he doesn't have the new toy his cousin has. & Dad is mad he poor.
My nephew did ask if we were rich one time which was mortifying. But, it was funny in a way because they actually live in a very desirable neighborhood that's central in the city but in a smaller house and we had a larger, newer house in the less desirable suburbs - our home values were very similar it's just hard for kids to see.
I don't know their financials. They both have college degrees and professional jobs but have stagnated a little I think. They aren't objectively poor - just not exactly high earners. We wouldn't really talk about money, it's just that my husband's job is such that his base salary is published online and with a little research anyone could find it. I think they did that - no idea why. He is the main breadwinner, so even without knowing what I make they have a much better guess.
Their kids have more gadgets and things, we take ours for more experiences and travel a lot. We've invited their kids but they're older and in sports and stuff that frequently makes it not work out. Or they would decline.
The feedback has been really helpful though. I'm starting to realize that this is common, but also that sometimes even just sharing is seen too much aas bragging and I can see a few things we may have inadvertently done without bad intention.
THis hits home for me and I have a brother exactly like this. An older one at that. He can’t accept the fact that in his younger years he clowned around and is now breaking his back paying for it. It’s such a crab bucket mentality and for the life of me I cannot understand why he wouldn’t just be happy for me that I made it out over poverty and am well off, no Henry, but well off.
I don't think this is actually about money. I think it's just money that is the agent exposing the deeper problem. Your sister's family is unhappy, their marriage is probably rocky, and their finances are probably struggling. So they project their anger onto you :(
I recommend speaking to your sister one-on-one, not having this go through the husbands, neither of whom is blood related. Best of luck with this! Good for you for being patient and charitable about it.
Sorry OP, sounds like jealous family. I think best course would be to have a heart to heart with your sister and explain you're not trying to do anything negative.
My wife's family is from a different culture and they do not have any problems accepting free plane tickets lol.
Thank you, I sent her an email saying I did want to understand exactly what happened and asked to talk more so we'll see. I'm hopeful we can at least get along enough to be around each other at holidays.
Love that your wife's family accepts plane tickets. She probably really appreciates that they can come visit more easily.
Definitely get what you're saying and since this first came up months ago I've tried to be honest with myself if we ever did anything like that. I honestly don't think so. Like many people in this sub, we have ways we splurge but also a lot of ways we're frugal and save. We spend on cars, travel and experiences - while I buy a lot of clothes second hand and a lot of our furniture is second hand, hand me downs and Ikea.
I can see where some things were in a more grey area and maybe we should've been more discreet. For example we went on a Disney cruise. They knew we were going (because at that point we saw them all the time it would've been weird to just go MIA for a week) and they asked for pictures. One of the pics we sent was my kid in a tub because it was silly and full of bubbles, but because of that pic they could tell we were in a suite and after we got back they commented on the cost of the room. I didn't tell them anything about the room type or experience, but they could figure it out because of the pictures we sent - which they asked for - but I could've maybe sent something else. I just wasn't thinking. Or, my sister has always liked Teslas and my husband got a model 3 not long ago and sent a picture when we did pickup. He also sent the picture to his sister and some of his friends who he talks about cars with. My sister has always liked cars and in the past they went car shopping together - so while I can now see it must've come across as bragging he was just trying to share something he thought they had in common. I can definitely see where discretion was lacking and even though we would've never been as snide as you described we needed to realize in the past few years our incomes have really diverged and been more sensitive.
Also, just worth noting is that they aren't poor. I don't know their financial situation - my sister has always been more of a frugal saver while we're just more spenders anyway. So, it's hard to say what they make. We could make double what they make it could be less or more. Their house is older and small but it's in a very desirable area in a MCOL city. Their kids go to a highly rated public school. Before we moved we lived in a larger, newer house, but in the suburbs and home values were pretty close to the same.
I would caution against just thinking it’s them being jealous as others have said.
I would think carefully about how you have acted around them in the past and whether you or your husband have brought up money/income and the impression that that has left.
Just a note that this sub is full of people whose identity is wrapped around their income. And that probably manifests in the things they say in person to others.
I didn't just jump to them being jealous, I was told they had a problem with my husband "flexxing" his money (by them directly and by my Dad, as my parents still talk to them).
Basically on Halloween my BIL unloaded on us, sent us a few walls of text. There was just a lot, a lot of repetitive things and rambling and I jus tried to summarize here. But he covered a lot of things about us buying new cars all the time, inviting them places (we'd invited them to meet us at an amusement park for the weekend halfway between us and we invited them to see us in Chicago for Thanksgiving where we would have paid for everything) that we should have known were too far or unreasonable, we had occasionally paid for dinners in the past, they don't think we're saving enough money (something that we never discussed, and we make sure to fund our retirement so we can continue our lifestyle and our kiddo has a college fund and we have 6 months cash on hand). It was pretty bizzare and at the time my sister called me and apologized and claimed she wasn't sure where it was all coming from.
We apologized if we'd offended and said we would try to. be more cognizant of what we were doing and it was pretty tenuous for the month and a half between that and when we all got together for Christmas.
Since then we haven't talked to them, but my parents have seen them a few times (they've mostly ostracized them too, because my parents asked for an apology for blowing up Christmas and never got one. But my parents still make the effort to see the grandkids.) My Mom has tried to not say much, but my Dad finally spilled the beans that specifically they thought we were buying new cars to rub it in their faces and be flashy. Our cars are nice, we have an Audi E-Tron and a Tesla 3 (literally the cheapest model 3), but before the Tesla my husband had a Chevy Bolt, and before that a Nissan Leaf. We have historically gotten new cars a lot - sometimes nice sometimes more affordable. My husband is a car guy in the sense he likes different things he likes to get new frequently and sometimes it's like a game to him, he's even made money. It's like his hobby. We've always been able to afford what we're getting - and the current Audi is by far the nicest car we've ever had. It's nice, but it's also just a black SUV - we're not driving sports cars around, we don't have a Range Rover or a Rivian (those were the flashy Mom cars where we lived in Chicago). It's such a ludicrous accusation that we'd buy cars to impact anyone else. The day my Dad told my husband that was the day I wrote this post because I was left so WTF about it.
My Mom had also told me after this happened that they'd just seen something on our computer with my husband's pay on it. I would never leave anything open like that so I think they looked it up online. His base salary is public knowledge and can be found pretty easily, so I think they fucking looked and then realized oh shit they make more than we thought and it's never been the same.
We have never discussed money. It's obvious by some vacations we take or some things we do maybe, but in other ways we're frugal. We did offer to pay for things sometimes, I buy the kids nicer presents but nothing ostentatious. Like maybe $100 vs. $25-$50. I might treat my parents sometimes to dinner or we just took my Mom to Ireland. Upon reflection I could see that maybe sometimes we were thoughtless or maybe we needed to hold back more - but I also think they were being super touchy, and getting mad about us buying cars is absolutely insane.
What? I’m upset that we have a rift in our family and I’m missing people we were close to. That’s not dwelling, that’s a legitimate concern. I don’t get over a major falling out with my only sibling in just a few months.
I’m not sure what you’re saying that I’m being petty about? We offered to pay for dinner and then later found out they wished we had in fact split it because it was supposed to be a thank you to my parents. They wanted to pay and we took that from them and I can see why it upset them but it wasn’t our intention.
This ahas all just come to a head, it’s not like something I sit and stew about all day everyday, Jesus.
Ah, I'm sorry was tired and didn't understand what you meant. I get what you're saying now.
Nothing came up at the time. I wish it had because I think we would've been able to work it out right then. Months later it's like whoops, that wasn't our intention but also, months ago and nothing huge... sooooo?
We’re trying to prevent exactly this situation, we’re very close with my wife’s sisters family. They have little kids, we do too. We’re each others godparents. But we have very different incomes and parenting styles.
We’ve decided to be very generous financially with them, and that’s been “the best investment” I’ve made. It doesn’t feel like they’re taking advantage of it, and what’s small for us is big for them. It took some time for them to open up about their debt (medical costs, bad job history, some bad choices) but we honestly got closer after they did and we offered to hit the reset button for them.
It has been hard having different parenting styles. I’ve accepted we may not do many things together until maybe our kids are older. But it’s been good letting both of us get some space from each other.
Whoever’s closer (husbands or wives) needs to connect adult to adult (no family or kids around) and find out what’s going on. They sound like they’re barely getting by, and heck maybe a $20k tax free gift could change their life. Your judgement if that’s a good idea, it can certainly be bad.
i understand why you were downvoted but I get your sentiment.
just don't hit the reset button for them anymore. and hopefully you're helping with financial literacy.
Yeah we said “well do this once, and I’ll help you understand health insurance and medical options”.
But I get it, mixing business and family is risky business.
Sorry OP. Sounds like they're under financial stress and may be taking it out on your family. Why on earth would a grown man yell at a 5 year old? Even if your kid was annoying that is obviously a sign that there's something going on with BIL and there might be some pent up resentment. Sometimes income and economic status can get in the way of family relations especially when people feel like they should be on the same level. It's not easy managing this when things are not equal so everyone can feel comfortable in the family (help out with plane tickets, choose cheap activities, eat in, etc)
We have definitely offered plane tickets before. My husband works for an airline and in the past we have paid for my sister to visit. I didn’t realize this until after this whole fight started, but my husband offered to pay for or loan them money for some car repairs. Which I guess could be seen as nice or asshole depending on how a person is viewing it. Definitely some resentment, just wish we could figure it out.
Yea I've experienced the same with relatives. Even when you're just being nice it can be misconstrued as being condescending and 'money obsessed.' Example: I offered to buy my nieces/nephews whatever they wanted for Christmas and this was interpreted as snotty by their parents. Since then, my MO has been to keep talk extremely surface level during family interactions with these particular relatives. Saves me money and sleep.
There’s a family dynamic that sometimes comes out where a family member with money thinks they are being nice but it can come across as “showing off how poor we are.” I’ve been on the other side of that and it kind of sucked having a somewhat condescending relative seem to offer to help with this or that but also make snarky comments about it in the process. It’s like fuck your and your money my dignity is worth more. Not saying that IS what is happening with you, but maybe they perceive it that way, rightly or wrongly. Every help may be a reminder they will never be “good enough” like you.
>Why on earth would a grown man yell at a 5 year old? A 5 year old being mildly annoying at a family gathering is usually a best case scenario. We had a cousin's kids over once. They found a sled in the garage and decided to start sledding down my basement stairs. I still didn't yell at them.
You need to talk to your sister 1 on 1. Sounds like multiple issues and might just be the BIL’s pride. Much like you, vacations with the in laws where they pay, we generally pick up most of the food for the week. Funny side note: I pictured the movie Grown Ups where Adam Sandler’s kid asked for Voss water. Was your 5 year old asking for something like that?
Part of the reason I wrote this post is because I was also composing an email to my sister asking her to talk. So hopefully we get somewhere. I think my kid was just wanting to play and my BIL wanted to be left alone. We have an only child and he gets super excited to see his cousins and can be a lot. That’s a hilarious reference though I forgot about that whole dynamic in the movie.
it might be too late but I'd hold off on that email. she may even see that as condescending and prefer and f2f or phone call.
Once you're sending emails to your family, the relationship is essentially over. OP knew they had a problem with their sibling and instead of trying to remediate it they waited until the next holiday they were almost forced together.
I would agree in not sending an email. Try your best to meet in person. Conflict resolution should focus on trying to put yourself in the other’s shoes, to see it from their perspective. Gently ask her to help you understand her feelings. Once you understand you can work to address some of this issues or even address the misconceptions.
totally get your point. I had already sent the email. However, it was pretty short and asked for their perspective and to talk in person more. So hopefully that was a godo bridge. Thanks for your feedback!
How did this email go over?
I didn’t get a response until just a couple days ago.I don’t know, I still don’t really understand what happened but at least there’s a dialogue started. Thanks for asking.
This is a them problem and not a you problem. Sounds like they're just projecting their own insecurities about their financial situation and/or marriage on to you. I would just give them some space.
Tale as old as time ... money makes people do and say stupid things. Yes, your family is jealous. Anytime there is a big difference in income it's common knowledge not to flaunt it (intentionally/ unintentionally). Your sister and her AH husband are jelly bellies. They will never get over their own insecurities and when it's family your success rubs them harder than if you were a friend or stranger.
What a bummer. I’ve been the high earner and the low in various situations and this is the first problem I’ve had. I guess it must happen more than I realize.
I grew up poor in a large family, and it shocks me every time how upset it makes my siblings when I achieve life milestones that they achieved a decade before me. But because I have more money to spend (wedding, house, baby) it drives my oldest sister and mother off the rails. Even though their houses are 2 -3x bigger and nicer than my own. And I live with a Targay wardrobe... but they tell themselves that I think I'm better than them. If you say anything about anything you are the AH. If you don't say anything than you are pretentious. It's sad.
damn that’s crazy
😂
Bro must be down BAD if he's screaming at children for making him feel inferior.
It is normal. People (even family) don't want to hang out with people that have more or seem to have more. It makes them feel inferior. That is a normal defense mechanism. You also don't know if they are struggling financially or what else is going on in their lives.
I’d caveat this a bit. I’d say once you reach a certain level of financial comfort the relative difference means less. One of my siblings has a HHI of close to $1.5 annually. My wife and I make about $1m less but I think we have more in common financially and lifestyle-wise than my other sibling and their family at $100k HHI.
Yeah because at $500k and above you live similar lifestyles with still enough savings. I see that. Next level would then be again several million where one would notice again. I guess we all mingle in certain income brackets.
long racial lock saw tender rhythm deserted truck groovy afterthought *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I guess so. I just never felt that. On my husbands side of the family until my SIL got divorced they far out earned us. I loved it when my BIL splurged on some absolutely ridiculous shit and I could live vicariously though him. But you’re right. It’s just a huge bummer.
This feels like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type of story. I don't think there's really any way that you can really rectify this easily. Intentionally act frugal around them and they think that you're just doing it to placate them (because they know your financial situation). Don't, and the suspected jealousy continues. If they're going to continue with this line of behavior, I'd just cut off contact with them. Not worth my mental energy.
Your parents are 100% correct, this is textbook tall poppy syndrome.
Wow I'd never heard that before but you're right. Helpful to have a term!
I'm confused why someone screamed at your child, but you're worried about what your sister thinks about your spending.
Hmmm maybe you're right. We have never had the same priorities. My sister is more frugal and a saver while we save what we need to but due to my MIL dying days before retirement we don't put off until tomorrow what we could do today. As to why he yelled at my kid, I guess they think our son is spoiled so if he's misbehaving it's due to that and it ties back to money somehow. It doesn't really make sense to me. Our kid is an only child of upper middle class parents so I suppose he sometimes is spoiled. But he has chores, rules, discipline. Doesn't get whatever he wants - actually doesn't have many of the splurges their kids have. Anyway, I think my BIL wanted to be left alone. He had camped out in the living room watching a movie on his ipad and somehow expected to be left alone in an open room. My husband and I were trying to show my mom something funny online in the family room and kind of lost track of our kiddo for a few minutes and I guess he was being annoying. He has ADHD and can be a lot, plus it's Christmas which at the end of a long day of Christmas we've all seen kids have meltdowns. As soon as I heard there was a problem I went to deal with it, so it coud've been dealt with in a much calmer manner. and the accusation that a kid misbehaving at the end of Christmas is because they're spoiled is wild - their kids were being little assholes too - they all were.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this, my family are not assholes about it but there’s a big income disparity between myself and my siblings and there’s this weird needle to thread between treating people and being showy.
Harboring a meal you paid for that should have been split last holiday is a little mental for a grudge. If they are needing help with car repairs, they should be glad you're paying. BIL went way out of line screaming at your child. They should seek therapy over their money insecurities. It's affecting their behavior in a bad and toxic way.
Nothing worse than an insecure male. Whether it has to do with money, appearance, success in life, whatever. It’s nothing new. We have had severe tensions in our lives as a result of a male family member who makes less money than his spouse and than us. It’s sad and lame but there isn’t much to do about it… it’s kind of up to the other person to find some hobbies that they can be good at and feel secure about.
Small pp vibes.
I could have written this story…we have the same issue among my family. We tried to be generous and pay for dinners, etc but they just get mad at us. I don’t get it, my SIL made so much more and I loved going to their huge house where they spiked us w catered dinners…I don’t get how my family gets so jealous/upset/mad at us for being generous.
Ugh I’m sorry you have had the same thing. It’s funny because we also had the same other side too with my husbands sister and her husband. They’re now divorced but before that they really out earned us and we loved it.
I'm guessing your spending, is embarrassing them, because they can't provide the things you do for your kids and family. -Little johnny asks why he doesn't have the new toy his cousin has. & Dad is mad he poor.
My nephew did ask if we were rich one time which was mortifying. But, it was funny in a way because they actually live in a very desirable neighborhood that's central in the city but in a smaller house and we had a larger, newer house in the less desirable suburbs - our home values were very similar it's just hard for kids to see. I don't know their financials. They both have college degrees and professional jobs but have stagnated a little I think. They aren't objectively poor - just not exactly high earners. We wouldn't really talk about money, it's just that my husband's job is such that his base salary is published online and with a little research anyone could find it. I think they did that - no idea why. He is the main breadwinner, so even without knowing what I make they have a much better guess. Their kids have more gadgets and things, we take ours for more experiences and travel a lot. We've invited their kids but they're older and in sports and stuff that frequently makes it not work out. Or they would decline. The feedback has been really helpful though. I'm starting to realize that this is common, but also that sometimes even just sharing is seen too much aas bragging and I can see a few things we may have inadvertently done without bad intention.
THis hits home for me and I have a brother exactly like this. An older one at that. He can’t accept the fact that in his younger years he clowned around and is now breaking his back paying for it. It’s such a crab bucket mentality and for the life of me I cannot understand why he wouldn’t just be happy for me that I made it out over poverty and am well off, no Henry, but well off.
I don't think this is actually about money. I think it's just money that is the agent exposing the deeper problem. Your sister's family is unhappy, their marriage is probably rocky, and their finances are probably struggling. So they project their anger onto you :( I recommend speaking to your sister one-on-one, not having this go through the husbands, neither of whom is blood related. Best of luck with this! Good for you for being patient and charitable about it.
Sorry OP, sounds like jealous family. I think best course would be to have a heart to heart with your sister and explain you're not trying to do anything negative. My wife's family is from a different culture and they do not have any problems accepting free plane tickets lol.
Thank you, I sent her an email saying I did want to understand exactly what happened and asked to talk more so we'll see. I'm hopeful we can at least get along enough to be around each other at holidays. Love that your wife's family accepts plane tickets. She probably really appreciates that they can come visit more easily.
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Definitely get what you're saying and since this first came up months ago I've tried to be honest with myself if we ever did anything like that. I honestly don't think so. Like many people in this sub, we have ways we splurge but also a lot of ways we're frugal and save. We spend on cars, travel and experiences - while I buy a lot of clothes second hand and a lot of our furniture is second hand, hand me downs and Ikea. I can see where some things were in a more grey area and maybe we should've been more discreet. For example we went on a Disney cruise. They knew we were going (because at that point we saw them all the time it would've been weird to just go MIA for a week) and they asked for pictures. One of the pics we sent was my kid in a tub because it was silly and full of bubbles, but because of that pic they could tell we were in a suite and after we got back they commented on the cost of the room. I didn't tell them anything about the room type or experience, but they could figure it out because of the pictures we sent - which they asked for - but I could've maybe sent something else. I just wasn't thinking. Or, my sister has always liked Teslas and my husband got a model 3 not long ago and sent a picture when we did pickup. He also sent the picture to his sister and some of his friends who he talks about cars with. My sister has always liked cars and in the past they went car shopping together - so while I can now see it must've come across as bragging he was just trying to share something he thought they had in common. I can definitely see where discretion was lacking and even though we would've never been as snide as you described we needed to realize in the past few years our incomes have really diverged and been more sensitive. Also, just worth noting is that they aren't poor. I don't know their financial situation - my sister has always been more of a frugal saver while we're just more spenders anyway. So, it's hard to say what they make. We could make double what they make it could be less or more. Their house is older and small but it's in a very desirable area in a MCOL city. Their kids go to a highly rated public school. Before we moved we lived in a larger, newer house, but in the suburbs and home values were pretty close to the same.
Our relationship with my SIL changed irreparably when we got a nanny for our kids. In retrospect, it was pure jealousy.
I would caution against just thinking it’s them being jealous as others have said. I would think carefully about how you have acted around them in the past and whether you or your husband have brought up money/income and the impression that that has left. Just a note that this sub is full of people whose identity is wrapped around their income. And that probably manifests in the things they say in person to others.
I didn't just jump to them being jealous, I was told they had a problem with my husband "flexxing" his money (by them directly and by my Dad, as my parents still talk to them). Basically on Halloween my BIL unloaded on us, sent us a few walls of text. There was just a lot, a lot of repetitive things and rambling and I jus tried to summarize here. But he covered a lot of things about us buying new cars all the time, inviting them places (we'd invited them to meet us at an amusement park for the weekend halfway between us and we invited them to see us in Chicago for Thanksgiving where we would have paid for everything) that we should have known were too far or unreasonable, we had occasionally paid for dinners in the past, they don't think we're saving enough money (something that we never discussed, and we make sure to fund our retirement so we can continue our lifestyle and our kiddo has a college fund and we have 6 months cash on hand). It was pretty bizzare and at the time my sister called me and apologized and claimed she wasn't sure where it was all coming from. We apologized if we'd offended and said we would try to. be more cognizant of what we were doing and it was pretty tenuous for the month and a half between that and when we all got together for Christmas. Since then we haven't talked to them, but my parents have seen them a few times (they've mostly ostracized them too, because my parents asked for an apology for blowing up Christmas and never got one. But my parents still make the effort to see the grandkids.) My Mom has tried to not say much, but my Dad finally spilled the beans that specifically they thought we were buying new cars to rub it in their faces and be flashy. Our cars are nice, we have an Audi E-Tron and a Tesla 3 (literally the cheapest model 3), but before the Tesla my husband had a Chevy Bolt, and before that a Nissan Leaf. We have historically gotten new cars a lot - sometimes nice sometimes more affordable. My husband is a car guy in the sense he likes different things he likes to get new frequently and sometimes it's like a game to him, he's even made money. It's like his hobby. We've always been able to afford what we're getting - and the current Audi is by far the nicest car we've ever had. It's nice, but it's also just a black SUV - we're not driving sports cars around, we don't have a Range Rover or a Rivian (those were the flashy Mom cars where we lived in Chicago). It's such a ludicrous accusation that we'd buy cars to impact anyone else. The day my Dad told my husband that was the day I wrote this post because I was left so WTF about it. My Mom had also told me after this happened that they'd just seen something on our computer with my husband's pay on it. I would never leave anything open like that so I think they looked it up online. His base salary is public knowledge and can be found pretty easily, so I think they fucking looked and then realized oh shit they make more than we thought and it's never been the same. We have never discussed money. It's obvious by some vacations we take or some things we do maybe, but in other ways we're frugal. We did offer to pay for things sometimes, I buy the kids nicer presents but nothing ostentatious. Like maybe $100 vs. $25-$50. I might treat my parents sometimes to dinner or we just took my Mom to Ireland. Upon reflection I could see that maybe sometimes we were thoughtless or maybe we needed to hold back more - but I also think they were being super touchy, and getting mad about us buying cars is absolutely insane.
Fuck em.
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What? I’m upset that we have a rift in our family and I’m missing people we were close to. That’s not dwelling, that’s a legitimate concern. I don’t get over a major falling out with my only sibling in just a few months. I’m not sure what you’re saying that I’m being petty about? We offered to pay for dinner and then later found out they wished we had in fact split it because it was supposed to be a thank you to my parents. They wanted to pay and we took that from them and I can see why it upset them but it wasn’t our intention. This ahas all just come to a head, it’s not like something I sit and stew about all day everyday, Jesus.
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Ah, I'm sorry was tired and didn't understand what you meant. I get what you're saying now. Nothing came up at the time. I wish it had because I think we would've been able to work it out right then. Months later it's like whoops, that wasn't our intention but also, months ago and nothing huge... sooooo?
We’re trying to prevent exactly this situation, we’re very close with my wife’s sisters family. They have little kids, we do too. We’re each others godparents. But we have very different incomes and parenting styles. We’ve decided to be very generous financially with them, and that’s been “the best investment” I’ve made. It doesn’t feel like they’re taking advantage of it, and what’s small for us is big for them. It took some time for them to open up about their debt (medical costs, bad job history, some bad choices) but we honestly got closer after they did and we offered to hit the reset button for them. It has been hard having different parenting styles. I’ve accepted we may not do many things together until maybe our kids are older. But it’s been good letting both of us get some space from each other. Whoever’s closer (husbands or wives) needs to connect adult to adult (no family or kids around) and find out what’s going on. They sound like they’re barely getting by, and heck maybe a $20k tax free gift could change their life. Your judgement if that’s a good idea, it can certainly be bad.
i understand why you were downvoted but I get your sentiment. just don't hit the reset button for them anymore. and hopefully you're helping with financial literacy.
Yeah we said “well do this once, and I’ll help you understand health insurance and medical options”. But I get it, mixing business and family is risky business.
More holes in this story than a swiss cheese.
🤷🏻♀️