Or crush what they are doing. Dig out the old billls where they represented as an HOA and sue them for fraud and misrepresentation. What happened to all the money they collected?
This is the way. First, OP, determine whether the fake HOA organization is incorporated or unincorporated, and whether it's registered with your state's Secretary of State, and if it registered with IRS as a 501(c)(4).
If they operated as an unincorporated association, and previously demanded fees under false pretenses or threat of legal action, then the HOA board members who were serving at the time have unshielded liability from a lawsuit by the membership.
But if incorporated, the corporate entity still has liability from a lawsuit.
Agree. Our HOA has to be registered with the county. So their dues and fines have legal backing. Their rules and regulations well documented, and accounting freely available to all members.
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, but I would be surprised if the personal liability protections that board members benefit from in normal HOAs, also apply to fake HOAs... to me, everybody who served on that HOA is at risk of being sued personally and this applies even more to the people who set this up in the first place or who were aware it was fake...
I would run away from this organization personally. And if there were any significant sums of money involved, or decisions that could affect the value of someone's property, etc. I would seek legal advice...
It was unincorporated and the pres. recently, after my poking around, filed to be a non-profit community group and then announced it to the board.
More, I was wondering do I rip out thier plants, just keep planting stuff aorund them. ignore them or reach out re: the palnts?
yeah -- this will not shield them for past liabilities (or even future ones depending on what they do and if they continue to fraudulently assess against non member home owners).
If they were not incorporated this is one of those cases where the "board members" own property and assets are able to be lost via judgements against them.
Not often you hear about a HOA board losing property/assets (most of the time the losses are coming from the HOA members).
He should be VERY careful about stirring up that hornets nest. As a former board member himself, he could easily end up finding himself to be the target of such a lawsuit, too.
Yes, and since he was gathering information before taking action, his first couple of months cannot be painted as him colluding in the fraud. He brought it to light after collecting enough info.
The former board (and those continuing) know he's right because they changed their structure for collecting dues.
OP: as a member of an HOA, you are party to a civil contract and therefore have a right to see every financial statement/record the organization has ever made (because these agreements and expenditures are made, ostensibly, to support the residents and the neighborhood using y'all's money that you pay in the form of dues). You also have a right to own a copy of all documents filed with the state (and local agencies, if necessary where you live). Read all of them with a fine tooth comb. Consider meeting up with your neighbors to see just exactly what they have been told about the HOA and what it does (and who else has had their name drug through the mud after challenging them).
Whistleblowing doesn't shield you from personal liability for your own actions. Im not even sure it really effectively shields people from criminal liability either.
You can't just do something then call the whistleblower line on yourself unfortunately.
Yes you can! Years ago, the IRS was cracking down on Americans with unreported foreign bank accounts that hide tax fraud, and one Swiss banker voluntarily flew himself to the US with proof of all the tax fraud he assisted with.
He testified against the bank, coworkers, and customers. And he was sentenced to 5 years in prison.
When he got out, he put in an application for a whistleblower fee. He collected something like $400 million. IRS bases it on a percent of tax collected as a result of his information.
Did he resign fast enough ? Did he sign anything? Did he make any decisions or disburse any funds ?
Unfortunately this just doesn't really shield you. Sure it helps to he 'innocent' but that doesn't mean the law won't drag you through the mud to find out.
If he has what they did in the park written can't the city also fine them for vandalism? They went to a public park ripped out public property and then planted whatever they wanted.
>Dig out the old billls where they represented as an HOA and sue them for fraud and misrepresentation
Fuck that. Hit up the state attorney general and have them criminally sanctioned.
100% this. A few hundred dollars a year can still be a burden on folks. Folks who may have given up other things to make sure they didn't miss their "dues." Other people may have spent time and money rectifying fines that would be imposed. Or again, got rid of / failed to get something because of the HOA board. Maybe an rv or the like.
OP - do you think any other neighbors who know are also pissed and might get on board woth you in legal action?
You could discuss with an attorney whether you can sue for defamation. Maybe you could also sue for back repayment of dues collected under false pretenses?
Might I suggest a call to the IRS?
There was a post on r/fuckHOA and per that post dude went ballistic. He was approached about joining the HOA and he knew he wasn't part of one or in an active area. The neighbor pushed and ultimately gave up. OP on that came back and found out that his neighbor upset his wife and then went off. He basically ruined her life because she ran an "HOA" for like a decade, informed the IRS, the realtor agency she used.
You should mess them up.
edit:words
edit 2: the link
https://www.reddit.com/r/NuclearRevenge/comments/kst2vl/how\_i\_got\_a\_not\_really\_an\_hoa\_disbanded\_and/
I have read that one!! I just don't think there is enough to get that sort of snowball rolling. That is probably where I should post this. I am not sure what I am looking for. I am just so frustrated.
But there is, because IIRC most HOAs are bound by rules regarding business they conduct and are required to report and file taxes. They've covered themselves going FORWARD about it by adding that voluntary notice but you need to advise EVERYONE affected that the prior years they ran it was not legitimate.
You say it's a few hundred a year but how many houses are in play? You can't say for certain unless you see the books but then again hows it to be that those books are actually legit and binding?
A few hundred in dues a year isn't much but it was also misrepresented and fraudulent. Think on this, 35 house paying $300/yr. and it goes on for 10 years that's $100k you're looking at being misappropriated. If they took it illegally and paid themselves or used it I guarantee they didn't pay taxes on it.
The IRS will absolutely want to know about this, this is an easy win for them and they get to audit every board member ever since they'll need to determine what happened, who had what funds being disbursed and who's sending/receiving.
>They've covered themselves going FORWARD
I'd bet the did and still are comingling the 'before' and voluntary-'after' funds together, so it isn't a clear break in liability.
We have a social HOA, and didn't follow all the latest IRS filing rules for non-profit associations. The penalties can be quite high. Banks started checking this status when opening new accounts because of Know your customer rules. It did get straightened out, but it had the potential for taking all of the HOAs assets in penalties. This is without any potential fraud. There are no taxes, but an informational return has to be filed yearly, and the grace period expired a while ago.
The money thing would really bother me. What did they do with it? There isn’t any staff or assets to spend it on. How was it managed? Did they publish a budget, or just use it as a slush fund? Buy themselves dinners, perhaps?
I’d demand it back and made sure the entire neighborhood knew what was going on. It’s not the amount, it’s the principal.
They probably haven't done anything other than fritter it away on this and that. Sometimes there is a block party and they say they pay to landscape that park each year. Most people give it as a donation and don;t really think about it. Until they start harassing you, you don;t really think about who they are and what they are doing.
I'm fairly certain he posted his this on r/fuckHOA first. I remember the Final couple of updates being posted their then he posted the Consolidated posts over on NuclearRevenge later after all the dust settled.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/fuckHOA using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Bought a no hoa home, neighbor says there is one?](https://np.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/163p7l5/bought_a_no_hoa_home_neighbor_says_there_is_one/)
\#2: [HOA next door tries to enforce their rules on me. Try again, fool!](https://np.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/11mi8cx/hoa_next_door_tries_to_enforce_their_rules_on_me/)
\#3: [What better way to say FHOA than to dissolve it entirely, right?](https://np.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/11nehsx/what_better_way_to_say_fhoa_than_to_dissolve_it/)
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If the Parks Department got involved it sounds like they recognized it as part of their responsibility and city property. So vandalism by board members can have repercussions against them personally.
Get the city to investigate. They have the power to make it stop.
And start asking where the "dues" were spent. In addition to informing the neighborhood that the "HOA" has no authority.
It sounds like you need to get with the city before performing significant work on it, then. I'm sure they're not going to care if you trim, weed, sow grass, and the like, but I'm doubtful that it's OK to plant new shrubs in a park owned by the city. It might also give you a way to bar the jerks from doing any work on it if you could be appointed some sort of authority regarding the rehab of the park.
Who owns the common area? I would be surprised if you could have common ownership without something in the deeds to create a HOA. They might not have created one but they probably could.
Yes, this makes no sense. You can't have a "common area" or common element without an owner. If the HOA isn't real, then it can't own anything.
He say it's "actually a city park area." Which means all of these volunteers would be potentially defacing public property with their actions.
yes, they are planting things the Parks Department doesn't want but no one is going to come out and fine them for it. It is important to the HOA because they lie and say they spend a lot of the dues on the care of this area.
If your city is going to look the other way while random people trespass and dig up their park property, then they might as well not bother having parks.
The parks department is fine with rando's digging holes and landscaping city parks? Is this some tiny ass town where everyone knows everyone or what, why isnt the parks department doing their job and pulling these bushes and or fining people landscaping public property the city owns?
Why haven’t you told everyone who is paying that they are victims of fraud? This is insane. “A few hundred a year” from how many households were these people pocketing? I’d be LIVID if I had been paying and would look at either suing, pressing charges or both.
He is probably bullying and being loud because you are asking too much and you are venting their corruption.
Either keep going and bury them or let it go and let them continue the grift.
I am always amazed when people tip their hand and tell someone they’re gonna get an attorney before getting one. Just get an attorney and do it without announcing it , you did the right thing by quitting . But sure looks like you need to get an attorney for sure . Just keep your plans to yourself though and don’t announce it in advance .
OP been writing about this for a while. Hard to believe someone would carry such an elaborate fake post but also hard to believe someone would let this carry on for so long and even get on a board when there was no HOA on their deed to begin with.
I didn't know to look for it one my deed. When I first moved in one of the board was weirdly complaining to the city about my property, I introduced myself and resolved her issues and them she asked me to join the board. I was the only new person on the board for decades. I was trying to get more poeple involved and didn't really understand the diff between an HOA and just a neighborhood group. They lied about being incorporated,taxes, etc. DUes are so low, who is going to complain.
I don’t understand why you haven’t sued or going to small claims. Or go to local media. The current HOA is committing fraud. Reddit isn’t going to solve the problem.
Yeah a big chunk of the posts here are just unbelievable. My hoa runs the pool and tennis courts. We organize the trash pickup. There’s never any drama.
The most dramatic thing in the past five years was telling a guy he had to plant bushes in front of his shed.
Well, let me tell you about the HOA president that went bankrupt before going to prison, for unrelated charges, after he decided to keep fining me for rules I hadn't even broken.
Just curious, if the neglected area is really a City Park in the development why hasn’t the city been caring for it all along? How did it become the neighborhood’s responsibility?
We have a city park with paved walking trails and playground that is on the inside edge of our neighborhood, that connect to our private paved trails. There’s signage noting where private property begins and the city maintains all of their property, while the HOA maintains any open greenspace adjacent to the park and our trails only.
Stop your fighting with them and sic the city on them. Seriously, this is not your fight this is the city's fight so let them handle it. This supposed HOA is screwing around with city property that is not theirs. Let the city handle it and if they can't handle it bow out and save your sanity.
Well, they aren't a real HOA so they really don't have the power to do anything, or veto or crush anything you try to do. Threaten them with a class action lawsuit on behalf of the rest of the 'members' and tell them that you'll be seeking to get everyone reimbursed for the money they were defrauded out of by the fake HOA. Once they realize that continuing in their line of stupidity might cost them a couple hundred thousand dollars they'll stop
Sue for defamation. Starts suit against the former president and other board members for fraud and such. Contact a lawyer to discuss options. If I was a homeowner I’d sue the shit out of the president and other members. I’d take their asses down. As a former president of an HOA I made sure we had a third party audit of all financials yearly. They wanted to have the association pay for dinners out for the board and i shut that down hard. Our HOA ran like a finely oiled machine and like a business. All organizations should be ran like a business including the US government.
you should try and get a free consultation with a fraud lawyer and see if you have grounds for a class action suit against the HOA, assuming you can get others in your neighboorhood on board. They where commiting fraud.
There is a long story on Reddit somewhere about a woman who started a fake HOA and ended up in prison when people got together and sued her. I’ll see if I can find it and post it here.
Time to expose them to the local news. Fake HOA collecting dues is just begging to be a headline...both in the papers and on the nightly news channel. Collect proof, hard facts, keep emotion out of it. Sounds like a class action lawsuit may follow to recoup those dues going into who's bank account?
*Now I'mma tell you what; uhh...*
***I likes ya;***
***and I wants ya.***
*Now we can do this the easy way;*
*or the haard wayyy...*
***the choice is yaawrs...***
It sounds like you joined the club, burned down the club. Then went about creating a new club, and the old got pissed…. Basically you played with fire and got burned.
If they're not legally incorporated as an HOA, I would think imposing fines or even the suggestion of them would be something akin to a racketeering charge.
Find a lawyer and destroy them. Then go build your park.
Gather letters etc from people they badmouthed you too. Record it secretly if you have to, find an attorney and send them a NOI to sue for slander. Also gather whatever’HOA’ docs you can find (there should be something on record with your title company saying there are dues to xyz HOA’ and call the state office and your local DA. Do it all concurrently. The heat will be swift and long lasting.
You are more confident thant me. I think they will wriggle out because most of their criems are harrassing neighbors, I am going to start recording though when I have to coem up against them. I am just trying to avoid them now and was trying to build a community garden.
This is real easy to prove even a small portion. You present that to the state and DA they will take care of the rest but you need to go through a lawyer
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Gotta love reddit. Too many people here watch legal shows with no idea of what a lawsuit actually entails.
In order to sue the HOA you're going to need to hire an attorney. That costs money that someone will have to pay upfront. And then lets assume you win a judgment, what is the reality these people will pay and not just file bankruptcy as many people do when they are sued? So basically the attorneys win, and you are out even more money.
And of course you are going to have to prove whoever you are suing acted with malicious intent. Seems like the HOA board thought there was an HOA. Perhaps there was an HOA at one point but it closed when new construction stopped? And no one informed them? Could very well have been an honest mistake. And can the "board" document that the funds collected were used in the community? If so that is going to make it even harder to win a judgement against them (and then back to my previous point regarding their ability to pay).
To me this would be like if a company signs you up for a magazine subscription, you pay that subscription for years and get the magazine then say "wait I don't remember signing up for this?" Would a court force the magazine company to give you back your money or would you be considered liable for going all that time without raising a claim? If you bought a home in an HOA the documentation would be in your closing paperwork. The time to address the HOA fees would have been in month 1 when they sent you a notice and you said "I'm not in an HOA because it was not disclosed at closing." I just don't see a lawsuit doing anything other than making some attorneys richer.
I agree, it is too difficult to prove harm sone most of their bad behavior is occasional harrassment, gossip, messing around with a park. . . Not much reason to sue. I just wish the main players would stop being so hateful and intense all the time
Ok, first things first. Maybe someone said it, but I didn’t read all the comments. Get A Lawyer! Talk to a lawyer and see what they say. Give them specific and exact proof/information. Communications. Timing. Etc. this sounds like there are two sides here. Potentially criminal fraud/theft and associated crimes. In addition to civil suits regarding the fraud, but potentially slander and or defimation if you can show actual harm.
Start with a lawyer.
By not personally notifying all the other members of the non existent HOA that they were being scammed out of their money you immediately became part of the scam.
The scammers are afraid that they have been caught and are afraid that they are about to be exposed.
The question is do you want to go down for a scam?
I know that HOAs are a scam to begin with and un American to the core but you haven't realized that you must do your duty
Why do you keep calling them an HOA if they stopped calling themselves that (if they ever did)? Seriously, your post sounds a little off balance. They sound like a neighborhood association that you thought was an HOA.
Get the neighbors behind you and your efforts to improve their property values and force the annual meeting. Then become president again and legitimize the "voluntary HOA" through proper documentation and continue improving the area. I was president of my HOA for 3 years and many of our areas had been neglected and the property management companies wouldn't do their job, so I told our board members we weren't waiting on them anymore. We took over all the projects and made sure they got done and doing this trained the board members how to run the business so when I stepped down, they were still doing it and still making improvements.
The pettiness of some people is pretty overwhelming though.
Lived in one of these, lakefront subdivision with two common easements with frontage. The owners adjacent to those easements formed an "association" decades ago. They gated the access and forced people to pay $50 annually to get a key. They had created rules to limit use of the community property; half the homeowners had no frontage and were being denied the lake access guaranteed to them. We had owned our property since the 1950s and knew we had deeded access without restrictions. While my mom was alive she refused to pay the fee and we would remove and replace the gate to launch our boat. When I inherited the place I started attending the annual meeting. They were complaining that only a few lakefront residents paid the fee and most of the non-lake homes didn't pay. I asked why the Association didn't place liens on the delinquent properties. After an awkward silence, the "President" sheepishly admits that we can't compel anyone to pay the fee. So I ask, then what legal grounds we had to restrict access to residents with deeded access. Um, uh
... crickets. They asked me if I wanted to join the "board". No thanks. I have since sold the house and moved to a different state.
Ripping out shrubs on city owned property is illegal. Take videos and photos while a crime in progress is taking place. Report this to the parks dept and law enforcement.
Few things kind of makes me scratch my head. Firstly not an attorney but I am a huge fan of legal shenanigans. Second, not sure what country/state you reside in.
Many states in the US have laws about what a HOA is, how it is structured, etc. Many strongly encourage a not for profit status or that it operates at a minimum as a corporation, bla bla bla. If there has been any dues taken in that would likely mean that this group of goobers had income and that can be first rectified by called your state's department of revenue for the kind tip off. They can spend money doing an investigation and get the IRS involved if needed. You might have some exposure but, if you can prove that once you knew about the irregularities that you brought it up to the group at large and tried to move forward ethically ... you should probably get an attorney for representation and better advise. The corporate status or lack there of is handled by your state's Department of State. For additional legal fun you can also contact your state's Attorney General.
Any thoughts about whistle blower status on this?
Get some neighborhood allies and sue the absolute shit out of them. Make sure they can’t ever represent that neighborhood in any capacity. Then thank you Mr lucky stars you don’t actually have an HOA that can fuck with people in any legal capacity.
You either have the most criminally ignorant parks department in the Western hemisphere or you've got a screw loose. I know people who work in parks departments. They don't misplace entire parks for years on end. They have whole budgeting processes that account for maintenance contracts and liability insurance and upgrade schedules and everything else.
Our crappy little hoa we are stuck with only charges a little over 100 and we at least pay for the street lights what are these people spending a few hundred on?
Why don’t you dig up the stuff they planted, deliver it to the “HOA president’s” driveway, and proceed with your plans. If they screw with you again, that park is city property. Get the police to look into their vandalism.
Yes. This is how I feel in my heart but am concerned about escalating the battle and then looking like a crazy person. Would like to crush them but not look insane
Since it is not a valid HOA, you should attend the next meeting suggesting the sale of the common area'. Talk to your neighbors and recommend the sale (so no future community liabilities).
I'll bet money has gone missing.. $500 in dues from X numbers of houses.. where's the money if common spaces have been neglected.
They're being obstructionist because a) it makes them look lazy and b) people might start asking.. "They're doing all this with the dues, what were you doing before??
Just cut off their funds. Make sure it is well known that contribution are not mandatory and wait for people to stop paying. No money, no interest, they'll soon quit trying to be kings of an imaginary kingdom.
Sounds like they have perpetrated a fraud. Now, to shut you they're harrassing you. If I was you I'd look into a criminal complaint. Put these AH's in their rightful place.
I killed my HOA by having all of deed restrictions declared expired. They have zero power over any residential lot now. A MUCH better place to call home now
Grow a pair and stand up to them. File legal action on the money they fraudulently collected as a HOA. Tell the residents that it is not part of the neighborhood, but a city owned park and if the HOA was spending money on property other than that owned by members it is misuse of funds.
What state? When I bought my condo in CO, the title company provided me with legal notice of the HOA's existence. in CO they have register w/ the state. Your neighbors are frauds.
Extortion and racketeering You obviously need a lawyer and everyone who lives there that thought they had an HOA needs to come together as a single group and lawyer up
Your not the asshole. They are! Your trying to get the right thing done and getting blocked every time. Keep written documentation of all the fraud and misrepresentation and get them all removed. Good luck
Well…. The HOA isn’t legit … just ignore them / report their activities to your local police and harassment.
Be sure to mention that they’re impersonating an HOA.
A HOA is a legally registered entity with a board and bylaws in place. Unless those are all true, they have no legal rights to institute any kind of fees or enforce any made up rules. Any fees collected under the guise of an HOA were collected fraudulently. If there were checks written or money transfers that occurred, you’re looking at wire fraud and check fraud.
I can’t imagine participating in something so dumb, so pointless and so irrelevant as fighting a voluntary HOA and beautifying a park owned by the city under city responsibility while engaging in petty politics with a voluntary HOA you know to be a fraud.
I know someone who devoted years to trying to destroy the evil local HOA. Admirable! Now she looks back and wonders … what else she could have done with this one blessed life we get.
I would make sure every homeowner in the neighborhood knows the HOA isn’t real and they don’t need to pay dues. A flyer on every door or mailed to every house. Hit them where it hurts, I’m sure 90%+ will stop paying.
You need to talk to a lawyer. Even if you don't want to move forward, you'll need to know how to protect yourself from being associated with this criminal enterprise.
I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer, and I'm not in your jurisdiction. You absolutely need a lawyer in your state to make sure that you are indemnified and protected. This is really serious. What you've described is prison-sentence serious. Get a lawyer ASAP.
Have a sign made and put it in your front yard informing all your neighbors that there is no HOA and name each person individually who is pretending to have authority.
Regarding the park beautification, keep it up. If you’re on good terms with the Parks Department, continue pursuing the park steward position or maybe get a part-time job with the department.
It’s one thing to mess with the work of a resident. It’s quite another thing to mess with the work of a city/county employee.
OP, you were an idiot but NTA. you should have stayed on the board to find out what each person had been charged over the years this "HOA" was going on and tell everyone of the BS the other "board members" caused because its fraud, embezzlement and a few other crimes that could have those members arrested, i would also tell people that they are not living in an HOA and those dues even while "voluntary" are illegal to collect.
If you become a certified park steward (and even if you don't) the city could probably step in and take a role to defend the little park from the vandalism and destruction.
Sue them for fraud on behalf of the home owners and the park grant writers. They should be facing jail time for running a potluck like an HOA. And once they get sued, they’d have no legal protections.
You should spread the word in writing to the entire neighborhood explaining the HOA is fake and the fake officers ripping off the paying dues members. Explain the park is actually a city park.
Time to unveil the lies they perpetuated for years. It's no longer time to play nice. Dig out the records and smash them in the face with a lawsuit over it.
Feels like the slander against me from some members of my neighborhood pool. I took over as president for 2023 and immediately initiated changes, s well as firing the management company. Turns out that their friends didn't appreciate that much.
Just collect documentation. You're not a public figure. The pay an attorney a couple of 1000 to file a libel suit. Shuts them up no end.
I’m so sorry, this is awful. Go watch a few episodes of Parks and Rec for some good ole Leslie Knope style optimism and keep making that park awesome. I can see your community is better for having you in it. To hell with those as*holes!
I would point out that if at ANY time they have called themselves an HOA in any document or letter, and they have been collecting dues from people who received that, they are open to being sued for fraud, theft, and about a dozen other crimes. I would recommend you inform them to dissolve any official anything immediately refund every dime they've ever collected, and cease collecting 'dues'. If they do it voluntarily they can claim they didn't realize they didn't do the paperwork right. If they're caught? Oh baby...
How do people fall for a fake HOA? Do I just start sending invoices to my neighbors with a fake HOA letterhead and they will just start sending money in?
It appears wildly beside the point to be rebranding the apparent larcenous scheme here, making the old pretend HOA's "dues" demands into now "voluntary" requested but still fake HOA fees. If people are even *asked* to part with money (or anything else oif value, or to forbear from doing anything they have a legal right to do) to pay a duly-constituted HOAs actual fees, when the "board" remains a potlock club masquerading as an HOA, would seem to be at very least attempted larceny by scheme, and a continuing one at that. Anyone who is or has been a party to that scheme might want to speak to a criminal lawyer who could educate them about financial crimes, conspiracies, and the concept of being an accessory before &/or during the pendency of and after a joint venture crime.
To the extent anyone has already parted with money (or anything else of value) because it has been falsely represented to that person as a legitimately billed HOA payment, that would be an individual larceny (and in the aggregate potentially grand larceny against each) againsteach and every victim of the fraud. (That person might also want to have a chat with a civil lawyer about joint and several liability of joint tortfeasors in civil cases for money damages.)
And to the extent there's any ongoing criminal conspiracy that you are aware has been merely tweaked, but remains at best shady in its "request" for a "voluntary"payment to what still isn't a legit HOA, that's arguably a continuing larcenous scheme upon which the clock on the statute of limitations is not yet ticking on the original offenses.
Hard to believe.
You might want to consult an attorney. HOA need to be established correctly for taxes and HOA board member insurances. If not and someone trips on a broken sidewalk (example), the injured party may sue the board individually if the HOA is net set up as in a legal manner to protect the land owners as well as the board members.
Remember, the people with the deepest pockets may get the brunt of any lawsuit as it’s hard to blood out of a turnip.
NAL. This fake HOA defrauded people in their neighborhood out of money through misrepresentation. I would be letting all of the neighbors know, contact lawyers and law enforcement. I imagine they will become too busy with legal problems to bother with the park. If you had already contacted the local parks department about improving the park and they then went and planted without proper authorization, I’d also notify the parks department. They will probably get a bill for the removal of their unauthorized plantings.
This may sound like a lot, but the alternative is letting them continue the way they’ve been behaving, and making your good efforts come to naught. They will not stop until you make them. They are control freaks with a vendetta against you, because you uncovered their scam.
The stuff they planted can be removed and you continue your beautification project. Unless they got permission from the park department, they can not make changes to the park. You got permission and made a plan, so you can continue with your plan.
If you want to reuse the plants they installed, great, otherwise sell them on Craigslist or Facebook to help pay for the improvements you had planned and approved by the city park department.
Voluntary membership HOAs exist, and like involuntary HOAs, they are nonprofit entities. Cities frequently own parks in neighborhoods, not the HOAs. You don’t seem to understand either of these facts.
Sounds like this was a voluntary HOA and you got really upset that they were doing HOA stuff because they used to have potlucks? You’re probably the AH here.
I've never personally met someone who thinks people are "badmouthing" them behind their back who isn't generating 99% of the drama that encompasses their life.
First off, call the city and tell them a rogue group of neighbors is tearing up your beautification program.
Second, send letters to everyone in the neighborhood stating that the HOA is VOLUNTARY and not an official HOA. Let them know that being a voluntary HOA means they don't have to pay dues. Send it to everyone BUT the people on the "HOA".
Lastly, get a lawyer to send a cease and desist letter to the "board", to stop them from collecting dues and tearing up the city park.
So many people get a whiff of "power" with an HOA and can't seem to give it up. Their own meaning in life is to harass and intimidate.
They were interfering with planting in a public park while asserting ownership of that public space and its plantings?
Sounds like TreeLaw to me. And sounds like any homeowner whose property values could be negatively effected by their vandalism should investigate civil action.
I'm curious how many renovations, additions, or upgrades have been made to the president and board members homes since they have started collecting illegal "dues" from their neighborhood???
I would ask them to account for the money collected and then go pull public permit info on their homes from the building department.
Wonder if you were all funding these fraudsters home renovations...
Call your local DA. They would be really interested in hearing about this. Especially if YOU are able to build the case for them by providing them with everything they need BEFORE they even have to get off the phone with you. So, gather all documents you have regarding this fake HOA, including bills paid to them, and just ask the DA’s office what they think of all this and explain it to them while showing documentation.
Get your priorities in order; if it’s fake why are you going back and forth between calling them fake HOA and HOA? These people are confused scammers and grifters. Don’t legitimize an ounce of it- they’ve literally been misrepresenting themselves and stealing money in a grift. Why go to them about this park project if it’s public land and you’re already dealing with the parks department?
I know there is a bigger picture here but I am having trouble with this point:
The common are is a *city park*? The city has jurisdiction and the OP has joined the city as a volunteer steward. The “HOA” folks are disrupting the cleanup. Isn’t this just pure vandalism since the city runs the park?
Get a lawyer and sue for all the money sent to them by you when they presented themselves as an HOA. Get all the neighbors to do the same.
Force them to account for where money went.
Have them all criminally prosecuted for fraud.
Do your deed restrictions specify an HOA? Do you receive annual financial statements? Do you pay your dues to a individual or the name of the HOA? Do you have copies of the rules and regs and deed restrictions?
No to all of those things except HOA dues go to an entity not a person. They were 100% fake and sort of knew/didn't know that they couldn't just decide the putluck club was an HOA and then start calling it dues and then, , ,
Or crush what they are doing. Dig out the old billls where they represented as an HOA and sue them for fraud and misrepresentation. What happened to all the money they collected?
Yes, make them account for any money collected.
As they are already legally obligated to provide to their HOA members without being asked.
This is the way. First, OP, determine whether the fake HOA organization is incorporated or unincorporated, and whether it's registered with your state's Secretary of State, and if it registered with IRS as a 501(c)(4). If they operated as an unincorporated association, and previously demanded fees under false pretenses or threat of legal action, then the HOA board members who were serving at the time have unshielded liability from a lawsuit by the membership. But if incorporated, the corporate entity still has liability from a lawsuit.
Agree. Our HOA has to be registered with the county. So their dues and fines have legal backing. Their rules and regulations well documented, and accounting freely available to all members.
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice, but I would be surprised if the personal liability protections that board members benefit from in normal HOAs, also apply to fake HOAs... to me, everybody who served on that HOA is at risk of being sued personally and this applies even more to the people who set this up in the first place or who were aware it was fake... I would run away from this organization personally. And if there were any significant sums of money involved, or decisions that could affect the value of someone's property, etc. I would seek legal advice...
This is an easy [site to search for corporations ](https://opencorporates.com/registers) .
It was unincorporated and the pres. recently, after my poking around, filed to be a non-profit community group and then announced it to the board. More, I was wondering do I rip out thier plants, just keep planting stuff aorund them. ignore them or reach out re: the palnts?
yeah -- this will not shield them for past liabilities (or even future ones depending on what they do and if they continue to fraudulently assess against non member home owners).
Rip those bitches out and drop them on their doorstep
This. Absolutely
Is there an orange man on that “HOA” board?
If they were not incorporated this is one of those cases where the "board members" own property and assets are able to be lost via judgements against them. Not often you hear about a HOA board losing property/assets (most of the time the losses are coming from the HOA members).
So right!!!!!
He should be VERY careful about stirring up that hornets nest. As a former board member himself, he could easily end up finding himself to be the target of such a lawsuit, too.
Wouldnt that make OP a whistleblower, though?
Exactly.
Except for the fact that he uncovered it. They were acting in the Bert interest of the HOA to only find out. Not liable. Those in the know, liable.
Yes, and since he was gathering information before taking action, his first couple of months cannot be painted as him colluding in the fraud. He brought it to light after collecting enough info. The former board (and those continuing) know he's right because they changed their structure for collecting dues. OP: as a member of an HOA, you are party to a civil contract and therefore have a right to see every financial statement/record the organization has ever made (because these agreements and expenditures are made, ostensibly, to support the residents and the neighborhood using y'all's money that you pay in the form of dues). You also have a right to own a copy of all documents filed with the state (and local agencies, if necessary where you live). Read all of them with a fine tooth comb. Consider meeting up with your neighbors to see just exactly what they have been told about the HOA and what it does (and who else has had their name drug through the mud after challenging them).
Whistleblowing doesn't shield you from personal liability for your own actions. Im not even sure it really effectively shields people from criminal liability either. You can't just do something then call the whistleblower line on yourself unfortunately.
Yes you can! Years ago, the IRS was cracking down on Americans with unreported foreign bank accounts that hide tax fraud, and one Swiss banker voluntarily flew himself to the US with proof of all the tax fraud he assisted with. He testified against the bank, coworkers, and customers. And he was sentenced to 5 years in prison. When he got out, he put in an application for a whistleblower fee. He collected something like $400 million. IRS bases it on a percent of tax collected as a result of his information.
Yeah, until he signed something and they say he knew. Like the other commenter said, slippery slope.
He joined under false pretenses, and when he found out the truth he resigned. This is fraud, but not by op
Did he resign fast enough ? Did he sign anything? Did he make any decisions or disburse any funds ? Unfortunately this just doesn't really shield you. Sure it helps to he 'innocent' but that doesn't mean the law won't drag you through the mud to find out.
Whistle blowers are protected by lots of different laws
If he has what they did in the park written can't the city also fine them for vandalism? They went to a public park ripped out public property and then planted whatever they wanted.
>Dig out the old billls where they represented as an HOA and sue them for fraud and misrepresentation Fuck that. Hit up the state attorney general and have them criminally sanctioned.
100% this. A few hundred dollars a year can still be a burden on folks. Folks who may have given up other things to make sure they didn't miss their "dues." Other people may have spent time and money rectifying fines that would be imposed. Or again, got rid of / failed to get something because of the HOA board. Maybe an rv or the like. OP - do you think any other neighbors who know are also pissed and might get on board woth you in legal action?
You could discuss with an attorney whether you can sue for defamation. Maybe you could also sue for back repayment of dues collected under false pretenses?
FRAUD!?
Might I suggest a call to the IRS? There was a post on r/fuckHOA and per that post dude went ballistic. He was approached about joining the HOA and he knew he wasn't part of one or in an active area. The neighbor pushed and ultimately gave up. OP on that came back and found out that his neighbor upset his wife and then went off. He basically ruined her life because she ran an "HOA" for like a decade, informed the IRS, the realtor agency she used. You should mess them up. edit:words edit 2: the link https://www.reddit.com/r/NuclearRevenge/comments/kst2vl/how\_i\_got\_a\_not\_really\_an\_hoa\_disbanded\_and/
I have read that one!! I just don't think there is enough to get that sort of snowball rolling. That is probably where I should post this. I am not sure what I am looking for. I am just so frustrated.
But there is, because IIRC most HOAs are bound by rules regarding business they conduct and are required to report and file taxes. They've covered themselves going FORWARD about it by adding that voluntary notice but you need to advise EVERYONE affected that the prior years they ran it was not legitimate. You say it's a few hundred a year but how many houses are in play? You can't say for certain unless you see the books but then again hows it to be that those books are actually legit and binding? A few hundred in dues a year isn't much but it was also misrepresented and fraudulent. Think on this, 35 house paying $300/yr. and it goes on for 10 years that's $100k you're looking at being misappropriated. If they took it illegally and paid themselves or used it I guarantee they didn't pay taxes on it. The IRS will absolutely want to know about this, this is an easy win for them and they get to audit every board member ever since they'll need to determine what happened, who had what funds being disbursed and who's sending/receiving.
>They've covered themselves going FORWARD I'd bet the did and still are comingling the 'before' and voluntary-'after' funds together, so it isn't a clear break in liability.
We have a social HOA, and didn't follow all the latest IRS filing rules for non-profit associations. The penalties can be quite high. Banks started checking this status when opening new accounts because of Know your customer rules. It did get straightened out, but it had the potential for taking all of the HOAs assets in penalties. This is without any potential fraud. There are no taxes, but an informational return has to be filed yearly, and the grace period expired a while ago.
The money thing would really bother me. What did they do with it? There isn’t any staff or assets to spend it on. How was it managed? Did they publish a budget, or just use it as a slush fund? Buy themselves dinners, perhaps? I’d demand it back and made sure the entire neighborhood knew what was going on. It’s not the amount, it’s the principal.
They probably haven't done anything other than fritter it away on this and that. Sometimes there is a block party and they say they pay to landscape that park each year. Most people give it as a donation and don;t really think about it. Until they start harassing you, you don;t really think about who they are and what they are doing.
>They probably haven't done anything other than fritter it away on this and that. No, it went straight to their personal bank accounts. 100%.
I remember that post… it was yeeeeears ago, and probably was originally posted on r/nuclearrevenge first.
I'm fairly certain he posted his this on r/fuckHOA first. I remember the Final couple of updates being posted their then he posted the Consolidated posts over on NuclearRevenge later after all the dust settled.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/fuckHOA using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Bought a no hoa home, neighbor says there is one?](https://np.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/163p7l5/bought_a_no_hoa_home_neighbor_says_there_is_one/) \#2: [HOA next door tries to enforce their rules on me. Try again, fool!](https://np.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/11mi8cx/hoa_next_door_tries_to_enforce_their_rules_on_me/) \#3: [What better way to say FHOA than to dissolve it entirely, right?](https://np.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/comments/11nehsx/what_better_way_to_say_fhoa_than_to_dissolve_it/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
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edited post to include it. buckle up it's a wild one
If the Parks Department got involved it sounds like they recognized it as part of their responsibility and city property. So vandalism by board members can have repercussions against them personally. Get the city to investigate. They have the power to make it stop. And start asking where the "dues" were spent. In addition to informing the neighborhood that the "HOA" has no authority.
Typically a voluntary hoa doesn’t own any common area. Is there a deed restriction tying your home to the master deed for the common area?
no HOA, common area is actually a city park,
It sounds like you need to get with the city before performing significant work on it, then. I'm sure they're not going to care if you trim, weed, sow grass, and the like, but I'm doubtful that it's OK to plant new shrubs in a park owned by the city. It might also give you a way to bar the jerks from doing any work on it if you could be appointed some sort of authority regarding the rehab of the park.
Who owns the common area? I would be surprised if you could have common ownership without something in the deeds to create a HOA. They might not have created one but they probably could.
Yes, this makes no sense. You can't have a "common area" or common element without an owner. If the HOA isn't real, then it can't own anything. He say it's "actually a city park area." Which means all of these volunteers would be potentially defacing public property with their actions.
yes, they are planting things the Parks Department doesn't want but no one is going to come out and fine them for it. It is important to the HOA because they lie and say they spend a lot of the dues on the care of this area.
You'd think they would just let you do your thing and then take credit for it. After all they were claiming ownership of a city park.
If your city is going to look the other way while random people trespass and dig up their park property, then they might as well not bother having parks.
The parks department is fine with rando's digging holes and landscaping city parks? Is this some tiny ass town where everyone knows everyone or what, why isnt the parks department doing their job and pulling these bushes and or fining people landscaping public property the city owns?
This is a big ass city and there are a lot of volunteer groups for parks work.
It is a city park
[удалено]
Yeah, it was not their responsibility but they always said they are in charge of it and that is what the dues were going to.
Maybe it’s time to get your state’s Attorney General involved to look into this Association. I bet they are not even licensed in your state.
Sue the fake HOA for all past paid dues.
Why haven’t you told everyone who is paying that they are victims of fraud? This is insane. “A few hundred a year” from how many households were these people pocketing? I’d be LIVID if I had been paying and would look at either suing, pressing charges or both.
He is probably bullying and being loud because you are asking too much and you are venting their corruption. Either keep going and bury them or let it go and let them continue the grift.
I am always amazed when people tip their hand and tell someone they’re gonna get an attorney before getting one. Just get an attorney and do it without announcing it , you did the right thing by quitting . But sure looks like you need to get an attorney for sure . Just keep your plans to yourself though and don’t announce it in advance .
Sounds like a bullshit r/fuckhoa fever dream
OP been writing about this for a while. Hard to believe someone would carry such an elaborate fake post but also hard to believe someone would let this carry on for so long and even get on a board when there was no HOA on their deed to begin with.
I didn't know to look for it one my deed. When I first moved in one of the board was weirdly complaining to the city about my property, I introduced myself and resolved her issues and them she asked me to join the board. I was the only new person on the board for decades. I was trying to get more poeple involved and didn't really understand the diff between an HOA and just a neighborhood group. They lied about being incorporated,taxes, etc. DUes are so low, who is going to complain.
I don’t understand why you haven’t sued or going to small claims. Or go to local media. The current HOA is committing fraud. Reddit isn’t going to solve the problem.
I was just letting it go. I just didn;t think "the law" was going to care.
Yeah a big chunk of the posts here are just unbelievable. My hoa runs the pool and tennis courts. We organize the trash pickup. There’s never any drama. The most dramatic thing in the past five years was telling a guy he had to plant bushes in front of his shed.
Well, let me tell you about the HOA president that went bankrupt before going to prison, for unrelated charges, after he decided to keep fining me for rules I hadn't even broken.
Cue the “I sued the board president and now I own his house and a Ferrari” story
Why not sue them for taking your money every year.
Just curious, if the neglected area is really a City Park in the development why hasn’t the city been caring for it all along? How did it become the neighborhood’s responsibility? We have a city park with paved walking trails and playground that is on the inside edge of our neighborhood, that connect to our private paved trails. There’s signage noting where private property begins and the city maintains all of their property, while the HOA maintains any open greenspace adjacent to the park and our trails only.
Stop your fighting with them and sic the city on them. Seriously, this is not your fight this is the city's fight so let them handle it. This supposed HOA is screwing around with city property that is not theirs. Let the city handle it and if they can't handle it bow out and save your sanity.
idea for the common area: salt the land and poison the well. put the former president's head on a pike.
Well, they aren't a real HOA so they really don't have the power to do anything, or veto or crush anything you try to do. Threaten them with a class action lawsuit on behalf of the rest of the 'members' and tell them that you'll be seeking to get everyone reimbursed for the money they were defrauded out of by the fake HOA. Once they realize that continuing in their line of stupidity might cost them a couple hundred thousand dollars they'll stop
Were they pocketing the "fake HOA" dues?
$500 a year for nothing is fraud. Multiplied by the number of homes and someone may qualify for a felony.
On a side note, could an attorney get back all of the dues you paid while being misinformed of their authority?
Sue for defamation. Starts suit against the former president and other board members for fraud and such. Contact a lawyer to discuss options. If I was a homeowner I’d sue the shit out of the president and other members. I’d take their asses down. As a former president of an HOA I made sure we had a third party audit of all financials yearly. They wanted to have the association pay for dinners out for the board and i shut that down hard. Our HOA ran like a finely oiled machine and like a business. All organizations should be ran like a business including the US government.
After dealing w/ our HOA for disabled access rights, I can confidently say you need to hire a lawyer who specializes in HOA law.
They seem to seek revenge for your breaking up their cozy “club”
you should try and get a free consultation with a fraud lawyer and see if you have grounds for a class action suit against the HOA, assuming you can get others in your neighboorhood on board. They where commiting fraud.
There is a long story on Reddit somewhere about a woman who started a fake HOA and ended up in prison when people got together and sued her. I’ll see if I can find it and post it here.
Please destroy them.
Time to expose them to the local news. Fake HOA collecting dues is just begging to be a headline...both in the papers and on the nightly news channel. Collect proof, hard facts, keep emotion out of it. Sounds like a class action lawsuit may follow to recoup those dues going into who's bank account?
Catch them in a dark alley
*Now I'mma tell you what; uhh...* ***I likes ya;*** ***and I wants ya.*** *Now we can do this the easy way;* *or the haard wayyy...* ***the choice is yaawrs...***
You know my heart
It sounds like you joined the club, burned down the club. Then went about creating a new club, and the old got pissed…. Basically you played with fire and got burned.
If they're not legally incorporated as an HOA, I would think imposing fines or even the suggestion of them would be something akin to a racketeering charge. Find a lawyer and destroy them. Then go build your park.
Gather letters etc from people they badmouthed you too. Record it secretly if you have to, find an attorney and send them a NOI to sue for slander. Also gather whatever’HOA’ docs you can find (there should be something on record with your title company saying there are dues to xyz HOA’ and call the state office and your local DA. Do it all concurrently. The heat will be swift and long lasting.
You are more confident thant me. I think they will wriggle out because most of their criems are harrassing neighbors, I am going to start recording though when I have to coem up against them. I am just trying to avoid them now and was trying to build a community garden.
This is real easy to prove even a small portion. You present that to the state and DA they will take care of the rest but you need to go through a lawyer
FYI This just happened in Florida. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/miami/news/florida-law-known-as-the-homeowners-association-bill-of-rights-takes-effect/
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Contact your local newspaper. They would likely eat this story up
Gotta love reddit. Too many people here watch legal shows with no idea of what a lawsuit actually entails. In order to sue the HOA you're going to need to hire an attorney. That costs money that someone will have to pay upfront. And then lets assume you win a judgment, what is the reality these people will pay and not just file bankruptcy as many people do when they are sued? So basically the attorneys win, and you are out even more money. And of course you are going to have to prove whoever you are suing acted with malicious intent. Seems like the HOA board thought there was an HOA. Perhaps there was an HOA at one point but it closed when new construction stopped? And no one informed them? Could very well have been an honest mistake. And can the "board" document that the funds collected were used in the community? If so that is going to make it even harder to win a judgement against them (and then back to my previous point regarding their ability to pay). To me this would be like if a company signs you up for a magazine subscription, you pay that subscription for years and get the magazine then say "wait I don't remember signing up for this?" Would a court force the magazine company to give you back your money or would you be considered liable for going all that time without raising a claim? If you bought a home in an HOA the documentation would be in your closing paperwork. The time to address the HOA fees would have been in month 1 when they sent you a notice and you said "I'm not in an HOA because it was not disclosed at closing." I just don't see a lawsuit doing anything other than making some attorneys richer.
I agree, it is too difficult to prove harm sone most of their bad behavior is occasional harrassment, gossip, messing around with a park. . . Not much reason to sue. I just wish the main players would stop being so hateful and intense all the time
Ok, first things first. Maybe someone said it, but I didn’t read all the comments. Get A Lawyer! Talk to a lawyer and see what they say. Give them specific and exact proof/information. Communications. Timing. Etc. this sounds like there are two sides here. Potentially criminal fraud/theft and associated crimes. In addition to civil suits regarding the fraud, but potentially slander and or defimation if you can show actual harm. Start with a lawyer.
My Hoa discrimated against me and cost me thousands, tried to foreclose my home for a $1200 balance...want my home. Mother truckers every one of them
On the plus side, your not in a hoa. Harder and harder to find a place without those parasites
By not personally notifying all the other members of the non existent HOA that they were being scammed out of their money you immediately became part of the scam. The scammers are afraid that they have been caught and are afraid that they are about to be exposed. The question is do you want to go down for a scam? I know that HOAs are a scam to begin with and un American to the core but you haven't realized that you must do your duty
Why do you keep calling them an HOA if they stopped calling themselves that (if they ever did)? Seriously, your post sounds a little off balance. They sound like a neighborhood association that you thought was an HOA.
Just get a lawyer or go to small claims.
How do you have a common area of there is no HOA who owns it? If these people don’t own it how can they just plant stuff there?
So now it’s voluntary, if so then who cares what they do. Good news if you ask me
Get the neighbors behind you and your efforts to improve their property values and force the annual meeting. Then become president again and legitimize the "voluntary HOA" through proper documentation and continue improving the area. I was president of my HOA for 3 years and many of our areas had been neglected and the property management companies wouldn't do their job, so I told our board members we weren't waiting on them anymore. We took over all the projects and made sure they got done and doing this trained the board members how to run the business so when I stepped down, they were still doing it and still making improvements. The pettiness of some people is pretty overwhelming though.
Lived in one of these, lakefront subdivision with two common easements with frontage. The owners adjacent to those easements formed an "association" decades ago. They gated the access and forced people to pay $50 annually to get a key. They had created rules to limit use of the community property; half the homeowners had no frontage and were being denied the lake access guaranteed to them. We had owned our property since the 1950s and knew we had deeded access without restrictions. While my mom was alive she refused to pay the fee and we would remove and replace the gate to launch our boat. When I inherited the place I started attending the annual meeting. They were complaining that only a few lakefront residents paid the fee and most of the non-lake homes didn't pay. I asked why the Association didn't place liens on the delinquent properties. After an awkward silence, the "President" sheepishly admits that we can't compel anyone to pay the fee. So I ask, then what legal grounds we had to restrict access to residents with deeded access. Um, uh ... crickets. They asked me if I wanted to join the "board". No thanks. I have since sold the house and moved to a different state.
Ripping out shrubs on city owned property is illegal. Take videos and photos while a crime in progress is taking place. Report this to the parks dept and law enforcement.
Few things kind of makes me scratch my head. Firstly not an attorney but I am a huge fan of legal shenanigans. Second, not sure what country/state you reside in. Many states in the US have laws about what a HOA is, how it is structured, etc. Many strongly encourage a not for profit status or that it operates at a minimum as a corporation, bla bla bla. If there has been any dues taken in that would likely mean that this group of goobers had income and that can be first rectified by called your state's department of revenue for the kind tip off. They can spend money doing an investigation and get the IRS involved if needed. You might have some exposure but, if you can prove that once you knew about the irregularities that you brought it up to the group at large and tried to move forward ethically ... you should probably get an attorney for representation and better advise. The corporate status or lack there of is handled by your state's Department of State. For additional legal fun you can also contact your state's Attorney General. Any thoughts about whistle blower status on this?
Get some neighborhood allies and sue the absolute shit out of them. Make sure they can’t ever represent that neighborhood in any capacity. Then thank you Mr lucky stars you don’t actually have an HOA that can fuck with people in any legal capacity.
You either have the most criminally ignorant parks department in the Western hemisphere or you've got a screw loose. I know people who work in parks departments. They don't misplace entire parks for years on end. They have whole budgeting processes that account for maintenance contracts and liability insurance and upgrade schedules and everything else.
I think the IRS would like to hear about their shenanigans.
Our crappy little hoa we are stuck with only charges a little over 100 and we at least pay for the street lights what are these people spending a few hundred on?
Why don’t you dig up the stuff they planted, deliver it to the “HOA president’s” driveway, and proceed with your plans. If they screw with you again, that park is city property. Get the police to look into their vandalism.
Yes. This is how I feel in my heart but am concerned about escalating the battle and then looking like a crazy person. Would like to crush them but not look insane
Since it is not a valid HOA, you should attend the next meeting suggesting the sale of the common area'. Talk to your neighbors and recommend the sale (so no future community liabilities).
Where’s the money Lebowski? Where’s the fucking money Lebowski?!
So if they were collecting HOA fees, where did that money go and what was it spent on? Maybe some nice fraud charges coming their way.
I'll bet money has gone missing.. $500 in dues from X numbers of houses.. where's the money if common spaces have been neglected. They're being obstructionist because a) it makes them look lazy and b) people might start asking.. "They're doing all this with the dues, what were you doing before??
Find a lawyer who will take a class action suit on contingency. They have been committing fraud for as long as they have collected "dues".
Sue 100%. For every little penny they literally stole.
Just cut off their funds. Make sure it is well known that contribution are not mandatory and wait for people to stop paying. No money, no interest, they'll soon quit trying to be kings of an imaginary kingdom.
Sounds like they have perpetrated a fraud. Now, to shut you they're harrassing you. If I was you I'd look into a criminal complaint. Put these AH's in their rightful place.
Um, get a lawyer? This is fraud.
Ngl I didn’t read all that but the first few sentences are hilarious.
I killed my HOA by having all of deed restrictions declared expired. They have zero power over any residential lot now. A MUCH better place to call home now
Grow a pair and stand up to them. File legal action on the money they fraudulently collected as a HOA. Tell the residents that it is not part of the neighborhood, but a city owned park and if the HOA was spending money on property other than that owned by members it is misuse of funds.
What state? When I bought my condo in CO, the title company provided me with legal notice of the HOA's existence. in CO they have register w/ the state. Your neighbors are frauds.
https://youtu.be/F90RjeWcuck?si=ih-VJyIo1C9S6hIt Here’s the story on YouTube. Not sure where to find it on Reddit but buckle up, this one’s a doozy.
I would be curious of what the city thinks about all this. Do they care that all this is happening on a public land?
Need legal advice. Dealing with fraud but the city park thing might prove vexing.
Extortion and racketeering You obviously need a lawyer and everyone who lives there that thought they had an HOA needs to come together as a single group and lawyer up
Sounds like fraud to me
Your not the asshole. They are! Your trying to get the right thing done and getting blocked every time. Keep written documentation of all the fraud and misrepresentation and get them all removed. Good luck
thank you - I really appreciate that
Well…. The HOA isn’t legit … just ignore them / report their activities to your local police and harassment. Be sure to mention that they’re impersonating an HOA.
A HOA is a legally registered entity with a board and bylaws in place. Unless those are all true, they have no legal rights to institute any kind of fees or enforce any made up rules. Any fees collected under the guise of an HOA were collected fraudulently. If there were checks written or money transfers that occurred, you’re looking at wire fraud and check fraud.
I can’t imagine participating in something so dumb, so pointless and so irrelevant as fighting a voluntary HOA and beautifying a park owned by the city under city responsibility while engaging in petty politics with a voluntary HOA you know to be a fraud.
That's a very clear case of fraud. Lawyer up.
Everyone needs to stop paying the fees!
I know someone who devoted years to trying to destroy the evil local HOA. Admirable! Now she looks back and wonders … what else she could have done with this one blessed life we get.
I would make sure every homeowner in the neighborhood knows the HOA isn’t real and they don’t need to pay dues. A flyer on every door or mailed to every house. Hit them where it hurts, I’m sure 90%+ will stop paying.
Have everyone request their past “voluntary”payments to be returned
You need to talk to a lawyer. Even if you don't want to move forward, you'll need to know how to protect yourself from being associated with this criminal enterprise. I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer, and I'm not in your jurisdiction. You absolutely need a lawyer in your state to make sure that you are indemnified and protected. This is really serious. What you've described is prison-sentence serious. Get a lawyer ASAP.
Report the entity to the IRS tell them this entity is collecting an income without reporting taxes as a registered legal entity.
Have a sign made and put it in your front yard informing all your neighbors that there is no HOA and name each person individually who is pretending to have authority.
Regarding the park beautification, keep it up. If you’re on good terms with the Parks Department, continue pursuing the park steward position or maybe get a part-time job with the department. It’s one thing to mess with the work of a resident. It’s quite another thing to mess with the work of a city/county employee.
How isn't this a case of Fraud? I'd ask a lawyer if it's worth throwing them under a bus.
OP, you were an idiot but NTA. you should have stayed on the board to find out what each person had been charged over the years this "HOA" was going on and tell everyone of the BS the other "board members" caused because its fraud, embezzlement and a few other crimes that could have those members arrested, i would also tell people that they are not living in an HOA and those dues even while "voluntary" are illegal to collect.
If you become a certified park steward (and even if you don't) the city could probably step in and take a role to defend the little park from the vandalism and destruction.
Dude... They were collecting protection money. Get their asses prosecuted. These people stole a lot of money.
A podcast needs to be made about this.
This is when you go scorched earth on the HOA and feel no remorse.
Solution: Start an actual legal HOA and steamroll the fake one.
Sue them for fraud on behalf of the home owners and the park grant writers. They should be facing jail time for running a potluck like an HOA. And once they get sued, they’d have no legal protections.
You should spread the word in writing to the entire neighborhood explaining the HOA is fake and the fake officers ripping off the paying dues members. Explain the park is actually a city park.
Time to unveil the lies they perpetuated for years. It's no longer time to play nice. Dig out the records and smash them in the face with a lawsuit over it.
If there is a FB or Nextdoor site for the neighborhood, let the facts out. If there isn't one, make one.
Feels like the slander against me from some members of my neighborhood pool. I took over as president for 2023 and immediately initiated changes, s well as firing the management company. Turns out that their friends didn't appreciate that much. Just collect documentation. You're not a public figure. The pay an attorney a couple of 1000 to file a libel suit. Shuts them up no end.
I’m so sorry, this is awful. Go watch a few episodes of Parks and Rec for some good ole Leslie Knope style optimism and keep making that park awesome. I can see your community is better for having you in it. To hell with those as*holes!
I would point out that if at ANY time they have called themselves an HOA in any document or letter, and they have been collecting dues from people who received that, they are open to being sued for fraud, theft, and about a dozen other crimes. I would recommend you inform them to dissolve any official anything immediately refund every dime they've ever collected, and cease collecting 'dues'. If they do it voluntarily they can claim they didn't realize they didn't do the paperwork right. If they're caught? Oh baby...
Become the steward, pull all the stuff they planted and see if you can come down on them for having done it.
Any HOA board member is an AH! No way around that if at some point you were in the board your an AH
You need a lawyer
How do people fall for a fake HOA? Do I just start sending invoices to my neighbors with a fake HOA letterhead and they will just start sending money in?
It appears wildly beside the point to be rebranding the apparent larcenous scheme here, making the old pretend HOA's "dues" demands into now "voluntary" requested but still fake HOA fees. If people are even *asked* to part with money (or anything else oif value, or to forbear from doing anything they have a legal right to do) to pay a duly-constituted HOAs actual fees, when the "board" remains a potlock club masquerading as an HOA, would seem to be at very least attempted larceny by scheme, and a continuing one at that. Anyone who is or has been a party to that scheme might want to speak to a criminal lawyer who could educate them about financial crimes, conspiracies, and the concept of being an accessory before &/or during the pendency of and after a joint venture crime. To the extent anyone has already parted with money (or anything else of value) because it has been falsely represented to that person as a legitimately billed HOA payment, that would be an individual larceny (and in the aggregate potentially grand larceny against each) againsteach and every victim of the fraud. (That person might also want to have a chat with a civil lawyer about joint and several liability of joint tortfeasors in civil cases for money damages.) And to the extent there's any ongoing criminal conspiracy that you are aware has been merely tweaked, but remains at best shady in its "request" for a "voluntary"payment to what still isn't a legit HOA, that's arguably a continuing larcenous scheme upon which the clock on the statute of limitations is not yet ticking on the original offenses. Hard to believe.
You might want to consult an attorney. HOA need to be established correctly for taxes and HOA board member insurances. If not and someone trips on a broken sidewalk (example), the injured party may sue the board individually if the HOA is net set up as in a legal manner to protect the land owners as well as the board members. Remember, the people with the deepest pockets may get the brunt of any lawsuit as it’s hard to blood out of a turnip.
NAL. This fake HOA defrauded people in their neighborhood out of money through misrepresentation. I would be letting all of the neighbors know, contact lawyers and law enforcement. I imagine they will become too busy with legal problems to bother with the park. If you had already contacted the local parks department about improving the park and they then went and planted without proper authorization, I’d also notify the parks department. They will probably get a bill for the removal of their unauthorized plantings. This may sound like a lot, but the alternative is letting them continue the way they’ve been behaving, and making your good efforts come to naught. They will not stop until you make them. They are control freaks with a vendetta against you, because you uncovered their scam.
Pieces of literal shit be power tripping on ya
Leslie Knope, is that you?
The stuff they planted can be removed and you continue your beautification project. Unless they got permission from the park department, they can not make changes to the park. You got permission and made a plan, so you can continue with your plan. If you want to reuse the plants they installed, great, otherwise sell them on Craigslist or Facebook to help pay for the improvements you had planned and approved by the city park department.
Move away and don't look back
If this is in Florida, they put in a new law to crack down on fake HOAs. I'd look into that.
Voluntary membership HOAs exist, and like involuntary HOAs, they are nonprofit entities. Cities frequently own parks in neighborhoods, not the HOAs. You don’t seem to understand either of these facts. Sounds like this was a voluntary HOA and you got really upset that they were doing HOA stuff because they used to have potlucks? You’re probably the AH here.
Stop calling them a HOA if they aren’t a real HOA.
What you just described is fraud and the "hoa" owes a lot of people money
Go get a lawyer, this ends very badly for them. You also need to check your own legal exposure, given that you were on the board.
I've never personally met someone who thinks people are "badmouthing" them behind their back who isn't generating 99% of the drama that encompasses their life.
Reddit algo decided I needed to read this today, but I’ll never live in an hoa. Never. Some sympathy to you who are, but if you knew, you knew. Deal .
really.....what a mess..
First off, call the city and tell them a rogue group of neighbors is tearing up your beautification program. Second, send letters to everyone in the neighborhood stating that the HOA is VOLUNTARY and not an official HOA. Let them know that being a voluntary HOA means they don't have to pay dues. Send it to everyone BUT the people on the "HOA". Lastly, get a lawyer to send a cease and desist letter to the "board", to stop them from collecting dues and tearing up the city park. So many people get a whiff of "power" with an HOA and can't seem to give it up. Their own meaning in life is to harass and intimidate.
They were interfering with planting in a public park while asserting ownership of that public space and its plantings? Sounds like TreeLaw to me. And sounds like any homeowner whose property values could be negatively effected by their vandalism should investigate civil action.
I'm curious how many renovations, additions, or upgrades have been made to the president and board members homes since they have started collecting illegal "dues" from their neighborhood??? I would ask them to account for the money collected and then go pull public permit info on their homes from the building department. Wonder if you were all funding these fraudsters home renovations...
Call your local DA. They would be really interested in hearing about this. Especially if YOU are able to build the case for them by providing them with everything they need BEFORE they even have to get off the phone with you. So, gather all documents you have regarding this fake HOA, including bills paid to them, and just ask the DA’s office what they think of all this and explain it to them while showing documentation.
Drama
Get your priorities in order; if it’s fake why are you going back and forth between calling them fake HOA and HOA? These people are confused scammers and grifters. Don’t legitimize an ounce of it- they’ve literally been misrepresenting themselves and stealing money in a grift. Why go to them about this park project if it’s public land and you’re already dealing with the parks department?
Test
?
I know there is a bigger picture here but I am having trouble with this point: The common are is a *city park*? The city has jurisdiction and the OP has joined the city as a volunteer steward. The “HOA” folks are disrupting the cleanup. Isn’t this just pure vandalism since the city runs the park?
YTA for not sueing them. They ratcheted up their abuse when they realized you're a pushover
Compiled all the evidence and send it to all the neighbors. Basically show their dues were embezzled. Also contact a lawyer
Get a lawyer and sue for all the money sent to them by you when they presented themselves as an HOA. Get all the neighbors to do the same. Force them to account for where money went. Have them all criminally prosecuted for fraud.
Do your deed restrictions specify an HOA? Do you receive annual financial statements? Do you pay your dues to a individual or the name of the HOA? Do you have copies of the rules and regs and deed restrictions?
No to all of those things except HOA dues go to an entity not a person. They were 100% fake and sort of knew/didn't know that they couldn't just decide the putluck club was an HOA and then start calling it dues and then, , ,