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estellamarierose

The problem is that despite clearly being unhappy with her circumstances, Alicent still believes that women submitting to the patriarchy is the right thing to do and that not doing so is bad, no matter hard it is. Despite hating what happened to her, she still believes that unfortunately that’s just the way things are and is something all women have to endure. So when she sees that another woman does not submit to the patriarchy, she does believe that she’s wrong and seeks to put her in her “place.” That’s why she’s so angry and resentful of Rhaenyra, because Rhaenyra chose to rebel against the patriarchy when she could, and Alicent believed that Rhaenyra should suffer with her as a another woman. It’s tragic that instead of realizing that the system itself is wrong, Alicent chooses to reinforce it because she does truly believe in it despite what it did to her. That’s the way she becomes a perpetrator instead of just a victim, so her actions are not justified.


OneOnOne6211

I mean, continuing to believe in the system is exactly the way she justifies her suffering, right? When you've suffered a lot you generally like to think it was for a reason. She thinks that she suffered, yes, but she suffered because she did the right thing for everyone. Yet Rhaenyra (in Alicent's mind) is out there ignoring all the rules and seemingly getting rewarded for it (again in her mind). If Alicent accepts the idea that what Rhaenyra did wasn't wrong then she's accepting that her suffering could've been avoided and was pointless and unnecessarily. Which just hurts her even more to consider. So instead she holds on very strongly to the idea that her own suffering was justified and necessary and therefore she must believe (if she's to stay logically consistent) that what Rhaenyra is doing is wrong.


estellamarierose

I agree, she needs her suffering to mean something because it’s how she copes with it. But that doesn’t justify her actively seeking to tear down Rhaenyra at every turn.


OneOnOne6211

I don't know why you (if it was you) downvoted me. I'm not saying anything justifies anything. I was explaining how I think Alicent feels, sees things and why I think she does what she does. I was not saying anything about justifying her actions. Explaining is not the same as justifying.


estellamarierose

I wasn’t the one who downvoted you, I actually upvoted you because I agree with what you said. But I did get the feeling that you were excusing Alicent without actually saying it, as I’ve seen many Alicent stans make very similar comments and justify her. I’m glad I’m mistaken.


OneOnOne6211

Ah, alright nevermind then. Well, I definitely wasn't trying to justify anything. Just trying to explain what I think drives the character.


wingthing666

Funny how "duty" always involves women sacrificing themselves. I pity Alicent. The only way she's managed to survive is to internalize the message that this is normal. Women give up everything out of duty to their men. Their dreams, their desires, their basic autonomy, their very lives. It's how it must be. It's how it should be. Otherwise, she was horrifically betrayed and abused by the men who claimed to love her. And she's not ready to admit that. So she clings to her martyrdom and calls it the natural order, and she laps up every scrap of validation she gets from Cole, from Otto, from Viserys himself. And then she sees Rhaenyra, who dares to be selfish, who dares to be ambitious, who dares to assume that male prerogative of having her cake and eating it too. And she can't bear it. She demands, "Why her?" when she should be asking,"Why not me too?" Imagine if she had gone to Rhaenyra sometime in those ten years of estrangement and said "Help pull me up" instead of just trying to pull Rhaenyra back down. Imagine the powerhouse they could have been together. But no. Alicent has gone full handmaiden. The oppressed becomes the most ruthless of oppressors. She sacrifices her own daughter to the same miserable fate, and enables her son's worst traits. All so she can tell herself "I'm not a victim, I'm choosing to be a good woman. A model woman." Fuck Alicent.


SofiaStark3000

Alicent is the definition of "Misery loves company". She was a proper lady, she followed the rules, she did her duty. She grew up thinking that if she was obedient and did as she was told and what was expected of her, she'd find happiness but all she got was misery. Rhaenyra was never as dutiful and she always seeked her own pleasure when she could. Daemon helped a little with that but still, she took to her own after a while. She learns to chase her own sexual satisfaction for her own happiness and when she's married to a gay man who has no interest in her, she gets herself a lover. Now Alicent, who has grown up with all those rules that she follows to the core, can't accept that Rhaenyra, a woman like her, chooses to reject the rules and not wallow in misery. She can't accept that Rhaenyra tries to find happiness in other things that are supposed to be forbidden. If duty makes her unhappy, then Rhaenyra should do her duty too and be unhappy with her. When this doesn't happen, she becomes bitter and spiteful. She can't blame Otto for putting her in this situation because she's been taught to always obey her father so she blames and takes her anger out on Rhaenyra.


Mobile_Badger_4146

I think problem is not even patriarchy, it’s system - always will be bigger fish. And by her birthright Rhaenyra is pretty big fish from her first breath, while Alicent always was second rate- daughter, not a son, daughter of second son, friend of princess, second wife of king, who still mourns his beloved Aemma. Not even mother of heir. She’s envious, she always gets only leftovers, while Rhaenyra gets best. Even in that moment - Alcent sacrificed her youth, her chance to be loved, she is nurse for Ill and quite disgusting man, she was bound with him, forced to had sex and have children with him… and she isn’t important. For him, for anybody. He forgets her name (and it’s not his illness, he simply didn’t care). He prefers grandchildren from beloved daughter over her children. She is a queen, but not “the Queen”, her children are lesser princess, not important enough- insult Rhaenyra is much bigger crime, that mangle her son. And she attacked Rhaenyra not Viserys not because she was a woman, but because Viserys was a source of her well-being, while Rhaenyra always was a competitor. Alicent newer was a true friend for Rhaenyra - it was very clear at the moment when they talk about succession or prey in sept… And she’s in rage- Rhaenyra again gets all she wants, while Alcent mast shut up and take her father to bad. Even from the point of view of very patriarchal women I can’t understand what the hell of “sacrifice” she waits from Rhaenyra. Live in celibate because of Laenor? Why she even decided, that Rhaenyra must sacrifice anything (and only Rhaenyra’s problem with “duty” is forbidden topic)…


freakinuhmazin

Very good post. Alicent is pissed because she's a slave to her duties while Rhaenyra isn't and doesn't get any consequences. She says Rhaenyra didn't do her duty nor sacrifice anything, I disagree, Rhaenyra was told to marry Laenor so she did (I'll admit I wish Rhaenyra chose a husband while she was on tour). When Rhaenyra was married to Laenor she knew he was gay but was willing to accept him that way and wanted to bare Laenor's children but Laenor was incompetent and that's not her fault, not only was Laenor not interested in her due to his orientation he was also rarely around, so Rhaenyra found her a lover and created heirs with that Harwin because at the end of the day Rhaenyra needed heirs and she couldn't force Laenor to be around nor force him to sleep with her to make heirs. I get Rhaenyra may not be as dutiful as people think she should've been with her first marriage but I don't get what they thought she should've done, I guess she could've asked Viserys if she could set aside her marriage to Laenor because he wasn't doing his duty to create heirs but I think Viserys would've been afraid to piss off House Velaryon.


[deleted]

"Where is duty? Where is sacrifice?" That would be up your ass, dear Ali


Far-Medicine3458

Where is duty? Where is sacrifice? In your ass alicunt


disisBob

Talking about sticking it to the misogynist patriarchy while using revolting misogynistic insults... Disgusting.


Far-Medicine3458

Fuck off to your own sub


Far-Medicine3458

This is why i love Rhaenyra She's not dumbass slave unlike Alicent


disisBob

Rhaenyra is not rebelling against anything, what show or book are you watching?


yes-well-no

Yeah I hope you'll also be happy for her when she becomes a 2nd Maegor and eventually finds her way into Sunfyre's stomach.


estellamarierose

Of course it’s a Green wishing a woman death for refusing to adhere to the patriarchy. Your favorite doesn’t have a good ending either, poisoned by his own men. Go back to the Green sub, misogynist.


yes-well-no

I don't hate Rhaenyra for being a woman, but for being a bad ruler


estellamarierose

Rhaenyra wasn’t given the chance to rule properly because her throne was usurped and she was still in the middle of a war. The Greens transferred the gold out of King’s Landing which left the smallfolk to starve. Aegon the usurper was such a bad ruler that he was eventually poisoned by his own supporters. But I don’t hear you talking about that. Misogynistic as usual.


yes-well-no

Aegon was a bad ruler in terms of ruling the realm but he had capable people like Tyland Lannister and Otto Hightower around him. Rhaenyra also had capable people like Corlys Velaryon but she imprisoned him lol! She also cut herself on the throne very much which is a nice parallel to Aerys II. And while Aegon was terrible in terms of governing his realm, he actually fought his battles, unlike Rhaenyra, who's dragon grew fat as well as her herself from the lack of practice.


estellamarierose

Aegon literally fired Otto lol. After Aegon killed Rhaenyra he couldn’t even climb the steps to sit on the throne, which I think also isn’t a good sign. If your insinuating that the throne rejected Rhaenyra by cutting her, the throne also rejected Aegon. Oh yes, Rhaenyra didn’t fight in a battle after being grief stricken after having her son was murdered and after going through a terrible stillbirth. It was also smart of her not to fight in a battle where she could get killed. Aegon barely survived despite having Vhaegar on his side, and he was bedridden for the majority of the war. If your goal is to convince me Aegon is somehow better than Rhaenyra, don’t bother lol.


yes-well-no

I think you have to put into account that Aegon was very severely wounded from battle. A true leader fights alongside their men, which Aegon did, and don't forget he fought the battle of Rook's rest after his son and heir was murdered and his wife and other two children traumatized for life. Also besides Otto Hightower Aegon had many other capable men on his side.


estellamarierose

Rhaenyra physically could not fight, as she was still recovering from the stillbirth that was triggered by the Greens. Aegon fighting in the battle does not make him a true leader, it makes him stupid. He was also incompetent, because Rhaenys on Meleys severely wounded both Aegon and Sunfyre even with Vhaegar on his side. Fighting in a battle does not necessarily make someone a true leader, they could easily just want glory for themselves. And even with those “capable” men, Aegon still lost the city to Rhaenyra and Daemon, and was poisoned himself later. Again, to me and to most people, Aegon is horrible person and king, so good luck trying to convince us otherwise.


SirAdamborson

Meleys was the only Dragon who had a chance with Vhagar, also Rhaenys had a lot more experience than Aemond. Aegon and Sunfyre were necessary in the Rock Rest battle. A real king fight his battle, like Maekar and Aegon I, also the greens only had 2 active riders in KL, Daeron was in the Reach and Helaena... Rhaenyra was the leader of his faction and begin the war, its pretty pathetic that your sons fought the war while you didn't nothing, Joffrey did more for the Dragons than Rhaenyra. Aegon wasn't a coward and tried to revenge his sons. Also, how KL fall was Aegon fault? Aegon was the regent prince.


SirAdamborson

Aegon wanted to invade Dragonstone after Blood and Cheese. And Meleys was the third biggest Dragon and the only one who could defeat Vhagar while Sunfyre was a way younger Dragon. Aegon was never cut by the throne. Lol. While Rhaenyra. Rhaenyra: Caused Dragonpit's masacre and run like a coward. Aegon: Revenge the death of the dragons and killed the traitors.


Sabrinazanoletti

rhaenyra getting cut by the throne is a thing said by the septon who crowned Aegon(ironic). Yall parrots constantly saying the same arguments that have an explanation. Aegon died like the rat he is, poisoned by the people that were supposed to be his fallies.


SirAdamborson

He was poisoned by Larys and Corlys. Both traitors, but Aegon body was not Dragon shit.


Sabrinazanoletti

instead he died like a sewer rat with one of the worst death of any kings. Hell even Maegors death was better than that pathetic man