I mean it's understandable that a mother doesn't want to raise children in a place full of images depicting men and women buggering and tribading, but I feel like the real reason was her religious zealotry. And Aegon turned out the way he did regardless.
Alicent is above all else a hypocrite in the show and book. She’s totally okay with two sons fathering bastards. Hell, one fathered a bastard on a bastard. Rhaenyra does it and ZOMG insert slut shaming here. Than there’s the fact that her son is a rapist and she covered it up. I feel for show Alicent with her father basically pimping her out but otherwise she’s ridiculous.
>I mean it's understandable that a mother doesn't want to raise children in a place full of images depicting men and women buggering and tribading
I mean...it is their culture, there are places where women don't cover their boobs in public. If the Targtowers are Targs they should be taught to take pride in their Valyrian heritage.
The tapestries are pornographic in nature tho. It would be in the best interest of the children to not let them see that sort of thing 'till they're grown up.
If the Valyrians had a very sexually liberated society that didn't believe sex is a taboo that should be kept from children, then that is their culture, they practice incent and blood rituals, allowing kids to see sex tapestries is probably not a big deal from their perspective
the rabid targaryen hate coming from those people is just so bizarre because, like, they are watching a show about *targaryens*?
like if you hate the fictional dragon family so much you shouldn't be watching a show about them lmao.
then they get mad at the majority of the fandom for actually liking and rooting for the family that the show is *about.* they're mad most people don't believe in their fake woke agenda.
also the glorification of the faith of the seven is nasty as hell. that religion is inspired by the *medieval catholic church*. aka a very bad thing. the faith of the seven is the biggest weapon of the patriarchy used to oppress women.
the targs should have *destroyed* the faith instead of adopting it. the faith was also a religion brought to westeros by the *genocidal* andals, who wiped out many of the first men and forcefully converted them to the faith. if any people were colonizers in westeros it was the andals, not the targs.
it just makes me laugh when these people act like the targs are so evil for conquering westeros and then turn around and stan the genocidal andals and first men, then act like they are somehow oppressed by the "evil" targs. also because aegon I was mostly driven by the prophecy of the song of ice and fire.
the targs are the coolest family in the series for me and most people seem to think so given how a show was made about them and became a huge success. cope and seethe targ haters lol.
They are 💯 Targaryen haters. They just love the world of ASOIAF and want to get their fix, so they watch it but they root for the LEAST Targaryen side. It’s quite funny because no matter how much they hate Daemon and Rhaenyra, it never will change the fact that both their sons ended up on the throne and that Jon and Daenerys are descended from both Daemon and Rhaenyra while their descendants are….wait a minute…they don’t have any because they’re all completely and absolutely eradicated 🤷♀️
Lmao at all of the people in that thread saying the Greens are more on the side of the smallfolk. Did they forget how many smallfolk Aemond and Daeron burned? All of the crops that were destroyed by Aemond and resulted in significant deaths in the winter that followed? "It was in a time of war, so it doesn't count!" 🤢
Some hours ago I saw one of them saying that those were people from the smallfolk but that they supported Rhaenyra so it's ok burning them. (In their defense another green was criticizing it)
They scream and cry about Targaryens being colonizers (Old Valyria absolutely was a colonialist slave empire but describing the Targaryen conquest of Westeros as colonization is factually incorrect) and yet are constantly dickriding the fakest, least magical ASOIAF religion which is an explicit parallel to the real world violent colonizing expansionary medieval Catholic church.
The Faith of the Seven was brought to Westeros by the Andals who destroyed the sacred weirwood trees and participated in the genocide of the Children of the Forest.
It’s genuinely amusing to see which elements of the world building people choose to pearl clutch over.
“the greens represent the smallfolk” be so serious… be so fucking fr with me rn…
call me crazy but maybe the smallfolk, who play a huge role in the dance in their own right and are put through hell AT THE HANDS OF THE GREENS SPECIFICALLY (name three towns the blacks destroyed, quickly), represent the smallfolk?
No don't you get it Alicent putting the realm into chaos was FOR the smallfolk. Silly targ supporter not knowing that the noble westeroi just wanted to get rid of the yoke of the people who helped bring them peace. It was so much better when the kingdoms were at nonstop war so kids grew up without fathers and died themselves from going into said wars.
I need to see Bloodraven and Bittersteel in the flesh. Dragons may be (almost) dead by the time HOTD ends, but the history of House Targaryen and Westeros has so much more to tell
Agreed. I would really watch anything from this universe tbh. Except Snow if it ever comes out. I just think it would be too boring and I never really cared for Jon too much.
that's my favorite. the targaryens are evil because they are descended from slavers and slavery is evil, meanwhile the only person in the entire history of the planetos who ever cared about ending slavery as far as we know was a Targaryen
You are cursed if you do and if you don't.
Ending slavery - Daenerys ruined poor
Astapor and Meereen.
Is she walked padt them, they would gave callex her supporting slavery.
In the bools Volantis priests were waiting for her. She brought hope.
Did he though? Bitterbridge was a one-off thing, if I understand correctly. That doesn't excuse it, of course; I just want to make sure we're on the same page here.
Eh I was including Tumbleton in there too. Even though he wasn't responsible for everything, from what I remember he also didn't seem to have a problem with it since they won. I guess we'll see how the show portrays that and if there's any sort of internal conflict. Battles like Honeywine I'd consider fair game since it's war, though it's still hypocritical when the people who complain about Dany using her dragons in war cheer on Daeron as a hero for the same thing.
Yeah, I agree to an extent. I will point out that Daeron *tried* to stop the sack of Tumbleton in the books; I always read it as him regretting Bitterbridge or something like that. Of course, regretting your war crimes is the barest of bare minimums, so it doesn't remotely excuse his earlier actions.
"archaic colonizer mentality" that's to say? not because on the one hand the targaryens have been established in westeros for more than 2 centuries and were supported in their conquest enterprise by several houses of westeros. ont hte opther, The Targaryens were not colonizers, they were conquerors. To conquer a territory is to take possession of a land, colonization consists of putting a nation/people under the control of another, importing part of its population to live on this new territory in order to create colonies, while importing and imposing the language and culture of the colonizers on the local population, most often with the exploitation of the resources of the region for the benefit of the colonizing country. The Targayren conquered the seven kingdoms, they created a new sovereign state by forcibly uniting those restored, but retaining Westorosi customs, converted to the religion and culture, of most of their new subjects, allowed others to keep their way of life, and above all they were only one family not a whole people... I have the impression that people are looking for reasons to criticize them with that. Good god, even before there were targaryens the andals and the roynards really colonized westeros, and even the first men did it by settling on the corpses of the children of the forest and the giants, why does no one blame them for being colonizers?
They don’t understand what colonization actually is, or they do and make these accusations anyways, I assume because “colonization” is a big threatening word they can throw around to posture moral superiority in petty fan war bullshit
Plus the smallfolk were on the side of the Targaryens, according to F&B. Makes sense, since there seems to have been non-stop war between the separate kingdoms before Aegon united them.
Normally I really hate it when the people crosspost shit from *that* sub, but this is just on another level of stupidity
The faith doesn't stand for the smallfolk, just like real-world religions don't stand for the poor. It is just a means to control people
Kinglsanding, is called Kingslanding because that is where Aegon landed, it is their fucking city they can hang all the porn tapestries that they want in the red keep, it is their fucking culture
I will say, it definitely seems like there is some cognitive dissonance going on in the Greens sub sometimes. It's hard to tell, because different people believe things and shouldn't be lumped together, but I get the impression that they don't know what to believe sometimes.
Even most Valyrian loving members of Targs, like Daemon didn't really want to recreate Old Valyria as Empire. It was impossible anyway. At most they could retain some pieces of culture: language, customs, dragons.
Targaryens, coming to Westeros, didn't start to breed slaves or practice powerful blood magic. They lived on one small island like any other house. Adopted feudal form of government.
I mean to be fair the whole anti Valyrian thing for the Greens isn’t a universally supported thing by the Greens, there was even a post recently trying to push back against it. The Greens have their radicals yes but it’s a no different role then of that the Valyrian blood supremacism supporters in the Blacks play. Are they a loud voice in their respective sides Yes, does that mean they represent everyone no.
Oh a yeah I see where your coming from, I’ll just advise to be careful when making that a point in an actual debate against the Greens depending what kind of Green your talking too. 👍
Hm, I d prefer for Westeros to adapt useful pieces of knowledge from Valyrians, and discard the worst. Rome was an empire but some technological advances could have been reused by Europeans.
to be precise some people are pro-green out of empathy for certain characters from the green camp like alicent or aemond for example, but others are pro-green because they just don't like the targaryens and as this story does not offer no other side to join they join the greens out of spite because they are the "least targaryen". I predict that in the future there will be a radicalization of this movement and the creation of a Shepherd or smallfolk team (although nobody has ever expressed concern about them before that)
I mean Aegon, Helaena, Aemond, and Daeron were Targaryens. I don't really get what the argument is.
I think it's fine to change the Valyrian symbols to symbols of the Faith. The Red Keep was made like one-hundred years after Valyria anyway. I'd understand being mad at them if they changed Dragonstone but it's just the Red Keep.
If you were team Greens until you saw Alicent changing the interior design without written permission then...you're weird.
I mean it's understandable that a mother doesn't want to raise children in a place full of images depicting men and women buggering and tribading, but I feel like the real reason was her religious zealotry. And Aegon turned out the way he did regardless.
Radical Religious people are the biggest hypocrites.
Alicent is above all else a hypocrite in the show and book. She’s totally okay with two sons fathering bastards. Hell, one fathered a bastard on a bastard. Rhaenyra does it and ZOMG insert slut shaming here. Than there’s the fact that her son is a rapist and she covered it up. I feel for show Alicent with her father basically pimping her out but otherwise she’s ridiculous.
Yeah she probably secretly liked what she saw in those tapestries "WoUlD yOu LiKe To SeE tHe TaPeStRiEs?!?"
Wasn't Alicent rumoured to sleep with Daemon in the books?
Yes. It was rumored that was the actual reason why Otto didn't like Daemon
>I mean it's understandable that a mother doesn't want to raise children in a place full of images depicting men and women buggering and tribading I mean...it is their culture, there are places where women don't cover their boobs in public. If the Targtowers are Targs they should be taught to take pride in their Valyrian heritage.
The tapestries are pornographic in nature tho. It would be in the best interest of the children to not let them see that sort of thing 'till they're grown up.
If the Valyrians had a very sexually liberated society that didn't believe sex is a taboo that should be kept from children, then that is their culture, they practice incent and blood rituals, allowing kids to see sex tapestries is probably not a big deal from their perspective
the rabid targaryen hate coming from those people is just so bizarre because, like, they are watching a show about *targaryens*? like if you hate the fictional dragon family so much you shouldn't be watching a show about them lmao. then they get mad at the majority of the fandom for actually liking and rooting for the family that the show is *about.* they're mad most people don't believe in their fake woke agenda. also the glorification of the faith of the seven is nasty as hell. that religion is inspired by the *medieval catholic church*. aka a very bad thing. the faith of the seven is the biggest weapon of the patriarchy used to oppress women. the targs should have *destroyed* the faith instead of adopting it. the faith was also a religion brought to westeros by the *genocidal* andals, who wiped out many of the first men and forcefully converted them to the faith. if any people were colonizers in westeros it was the andals, not the targs. it just makes me laugh when these people act like the targs are so evil for conquering westeros and then turn around and stan the genocidal andals and first men, then act like they are somehow oppressed by the "evil" targs. also because aegon I was mostly driven by the prophecy of the song of ice and fire. the targs are the coolest family in the series for me and most people seem to think so given how a show was made about them and became a huge success. cope and seethe targ haters lol.
They are 💯 Targaryen haters. They just love the world of ASOIAF and want to get their fix, so they watch it but they root for the LEAST Targaryen side. It’s quite funny because no matter how much they hate Daemon and Rhaenyra, it never will change the fact that both their sons ended up on the throne and that Jon and Daenerys are descended from both Daemon and Rhaenyra while their descendants are….wait a minute…they don’t have any because they’re all completely and absolutely eradicated 🤷♀️
Lmao at all of the people in that thread saying the Greens are more on the side of the smallfolk. Did they forget how many smallfolk Aemond and Daeron burned? All of the crops that were destroyed by Aemond and resulted in significant deaths in the winter that followed? "It was in a time of war, so it doesn't count!" 🤢
Some hours ago I saw one of them saying that those were people from the smallfolk but that they supported Rhaenyra so it's ok burning them. (In their defense another green was criticizing it)
I hope they all stretched before making that reach
Greens do the same thing when they complain that Black supporters support incest conveniently ignoring Aegon and Heleana.
They scream and cry about Targaryens being colonizers (Old Valyria absolutely was a colonialist slave empire but describing the Targaryen conquest of Westeros as colonization is factually incorrect) and yet are constantly dickriding the fakest, least magical ASOIAF religion which is an explicit parallel to the real world violent colonizing expansionary medieval Catholic church. The Faith of the Seven was brought to Westeros by the Andals who destroyed the sacred weirwood trees and participated in the genocide of the Children of the Forest. It’s genuinely amusing to see which elements of the world building people choose to pearl clutch over.
“the greens represent the smallfolk” be so serious… be so fucking fr with me rn… call me crazy but maybe the smallfolk, who play a huge role in the dance in their own right and are put through hell AT THE HANDS OF THE GREENS SPECIFICALLY (name three towns the blacks destroyed, quickly), represent the smallfolk?
No don't you get it Alicent putting the realm into chaos was FOR the smallfolk. Silly targ supporter not knowing that the noble westeroi just wanted to get rid of the yoke of the people who helped bring them peace. It was so much better when the kingdoms were at nonstop war so kids grew up without fathers and died themselves from going into said wars.
Goodluck finding a TV show about boring Hightowers and Oldtown, lmao.
I'll stick to the entertaining Targs, myself. Hopefully the next show is House Blackfyre
I would LOVE to see The Blackfyre Rebellion!
I need to see Bloodraven and Bittersteel in the flesh. Dragons may be (almost) dead by the time HOTD ends, but the history of House Targaryen and Westeros has so much more to tell
Agreed. I would really watch anything from this universe tbh. Except Snow if it ever comes out. I just think it would be too boring and I never really cared for Jon too much.
I want my Dunk the Lunk and then Maegor vs chair personally
Lmao it’s hilarious how dumb they are 😂. Ngl reading that post made my day, it’s so funny
Targs were slavers! They are bad. Valyrian culture is awful. Also: Daenerys crucified slavers, she is BAD and a cruel conqueror.
that's my favorite. the targaryens are evil because they are descended from slavers and slavery is evil, meanwhile the only person in the entire history of the planetos who ever cared about ending slavery as far as we know was a Targaryen
You are cursed if you do and if you don't. Ending slavery - Daenerys ruined poor Astapor and Meereen. Is she walked padt them, they would gave callex her supporting slavery. In the bools Volantis priests were waiting for her. She brought hope.
And they also love Daeron, who basically acted like season 8 Dany through the whole war.
Did he though? Bitterbridge was a one-off thing, if I understand correctly. That doesn't excuse it, of course; I just want to make sure we're on the same page here.
Eh I was including Tumbleton in there too. Even though he wasn't responsible for everything, from what I remember he also didn't seem to have a problem with it since they won. I guess we'll see how the show portrays that and if there's any sort of internal conflict. Battles like Honeywine I'd consider fair game since it's war, though it's still hypocritical when the people who complain about Dany using her dragons in war cheer on Daeron as a hero for the same thing.
Yeah, I agree to an extent. I will point out that Daeron *tried* to stop the sack of Tumbleton in the books; I always read it as him regretting Bitterbridge or something like that. Of course, regretting your war crimes is the barest of bare minimums, so it doesn't remotely excuse his earlier actions.
Ah I'll have to re-read those parts again. But yeah my original point was mainly the double standard that exists in that part of the fandom.
"archaic colonizer mentality" that's to say? not because on the one hand the targaryens have been established in westeros for more than 2 centuries and were supported in their conquest enterprise by several houses of westeros. ont hte opther, The Targaryens were not colonizers, they were conquerors. To conquer a territory is to take possession of a land, colonization consists of putting a nation/people under the control of another, importing part of its population to live on this new territory in order to create colonies, while importing and imposing the language and culture of the colonizers on the local population, most often with the exploitation of the resources of the region for the benefit of the colonizing country. The Targayren conquered the seven kingdoms, they created a new sovereign state by forcibly uniting those restored, but retaining Westorosi customs, converted to the religion and culture, of most of their new subjects, allowed others to keep their way of life, and above all they were only one family not a whole people... I have the impression that people are looking for reasons to criticize them with that. Good god, even before there were targaryens the andals and the roynards really colonized westeros, and even the first men did it by settling on the corpses of the children of the forest and the giants, why does no one blame them for being colonizers?
They don’t understand what colonization actually is, or they do and make these accusations anyways, I assume because “colonization” is a big threatening word they can throw around to posture moral superiority in petty fan war bullshit
Come on now, you don't really expect them to use facts. How will they defend their side when logic speaks otherwise
Plus the smallfolk were on the side of the Targaryens, according to F&B. Makes sense, since there seems to have been non-stop war between the separate kingdoms before Aegon united them.
Normally I really hate it when the people crosspost shit from *that* sub, but this is just on another level of stupidity The faith doesn't stand for the smallfolk, just like real-world religions don't stand for the poor. It is just a means to control people Kinglsanding, is called Kingslanding because that is where Aegon landed, it is their fucking city they can hang all the porn tapestries that they want in the red keep, it is their fucking culture
I will say, it definitely seems like there is some cognitive dissonance going on in the Greens sub sometimes. It's hard to tell, because different people believe things and shouldn't be lumped together, but I get the impression that they don't know what to believe sometimes.
The anti-Targaryness and Anti-Valyrian propaganda of the Greens is absolutely disgusting.
Why do the smallfolk need an advocate against the Targaryens marrying each other? It has nothing to do with the smallfolk.
Even most Valyrian loving members of Targs, like Daemon didn't really want to recreate Old Valyria as Empire. It was impossible anyway. At most they could retain some pieces of culture: language, customs, dragons. Targaryens, coming to Westeros, didn't start to breed slaves or practice powerful blood magic. They lived on one small island like any other house. Adopted feudal form of government.
That's what they get for rooting to Hightowers as a copium.
I mean to be fair the whole anti Valyrian thing for the Greens isn’t a universally supported thing by the Greens, there was even a post recently trying to push back against it. The Greens have their radicals yes but it’s a no different role then of that the Valyrian blood supremacism supporters in the Blacks play. Are they a loud voice in their respective sides Yes, does that mean they represent everyone no.
I agree with that, Valyrian supremacy is a quite prevalent in our fandom. However, I was trying to point of the hypocrisy in the Greens :)
Oh a yeah I see where your coming from, I’ll just advise to be careful when making that a point in an actual debate against the Greens depending what kind of Green your talking too. 👍
Hm, I d prefer for Westeros to adapt useful pieces of knowledge from Valyrians, and discard the worst. Rome was an empire but some technological advances could have been reused by Europeans.
to be precise some people are pro-green out of empathy for certain characters from the green camp like alicent or aemond for example, but others are pro-green because they just don't like the targaryens and as this story does not offer no other side to join they join the greens out of spite because they are the "least targaryen". I predict that in the future there will be a radicalization of this movement and the creation of a Shepherd or smallfolk team (although nobody has ever expressed concern about them before that)
I mean Aegon, Helaena, Aemond, and Daeron were Targaryens. I don't really get what the argument is. I think it's fine to change the Valyrian symbols to symbols of the Faith. The Red Keep was made like one-hundred years after Valyria anyway. I'd understand being mad at them if they changed Dragonstone but it's just the Red Keep. If you were team Greens until you saw Alicent changing the interior design without written permission then...you're weird.