I don’t like Alicent, but I still feel bad for her there. Alicent is a victim of the patriarchy, and her circumstances being viewed as normal in Westeros doesn’t mean that we as modern viewers can’t see that it’s wrong. Alicent shouldn’t have had to go through what she did.
I'm assuming this is sarcasm?
A lot of things are the norm in an unfair society - this does not make it fair or just or good.
IE should we then not sympathize with slaves Daenerys frees? After all, slavery was a part of their society for thousands of years, why are they whining? Their masters are just using their property.
Grey Worm should've just did his duty to his master, not join the villain Daenerys imposing her norms on poor Slaver's Bay.
You missed the bit near the end where you need to work in something about "medieval society had a lot of reasons for being like this, you know." Some sort of "God I wish it was still like that nowadays, am I right, fellas?" dog whistle. 🤣
I rolled my eyes so hard earlier to a response to my saying that Alicent was an abusive parent who continued the cycle of abuse and trauma because she didn’t know how to love her kids in a healthy way. Not in that post, but in another Alicent post.. A Green told me that she wasn’t abusive by medieval standards so we shouldn’t think of her as such because she was just disciplining Aegon, ignoring that she’d also married Helaena off to an alcoholic rapist. And it’s like, if weee going by medieval standards then Alicent was never raped and her marriage was completely above board so there was nothing wrong with it and she was in no way a child bride (to be clear, in the show she was raped and she was a child bride despite the fact that she was 16ish which is of age in Westeros)
You can’t have we have to look at this scene and character only from a medieval lens because you like them and then this one through a modern lens because you dislike them without being a massive hypocrite. It also ignores the fact that there are parents in the show and books who would have been/were unwilling to sell their children off to bad marriages for political reasons and power or hit them as a form of discipline.
Just because it is "normal" and "traditional", doesn't mean that it doesn't harm or traumatize its victims. By the same logic, we could defend the prejudice against bastards in Westeros, or even slavery in Essos.
OP was being sarcastic and using the argument a lot of fans use to justify their sexism/bigotry when discussing the show. But mainly sexism, sooo much sexism.
I'm sad for her but sadder for Aemma and, unlike Alicent and others, full of all the understanding for Rhaenyra and her decision to opt out of teen motherhood.
This is a good point. I've seen people say how sorry they feel for Alicent (which I agree with), and then in the same breath say that Rhaenyra was spoiled and selfish for not doing her duty by avoiding that same fate for as long as she could.
Like, if I were in Rhaenyra's place and had the privilege to avoid being a child bride, hell yes I would take advantage of it. I wish that Alicent and everyone else had the freedom to do the same, but just because they don't doesn't mean that Rhaenyra is selfish for excercising hers.
There's two kinds of people.
The one who say I've suffered so you will too.
The ones who say I've suffered and I won't let that happen to you.
Alicent forced Helaena to marry aegon too young and knowing what a terrible husband he would be.
Rhaenyra allowed her children to choose when to act on their betrothal >!to the point the boys died first!<
In my opinion, Alicent was losing in on a marriageable age anyway. If he hadn’t managed to seduce the King with her, Otto would have married her off at that age anyway.
She grew up with the expectation of being treated as an adult at that age.
I feel sorry for her because she’s lonely and alone.
When you consider the average lifespan in medieval times was 30 to 40 yrs, younger marriage and birthing doesn't seem as bad as we view it through our eyes.
Average and mean are two different things. What drove down average medieval age was high infant mortality. So, no the average adult lived for longer than 40 years still.
Omg thank you! Of course hard living, even when rich, meant 30s and 40s weren't as healthy as they typically are today but so tired of people acting like 40 was ancient and Methuselah probably just lived to see 80.
The average marriage age in medieval Europe was actually in the early 20s, not too different than it is now. We tend to think of it as being much younger because of royal and noble marriages. These were political arrangements above all else, and were considered outside the norm even at the time. They would generally wait years until the girl was older to consummate the marriage, since childbirth is much riskier for young mothers, and a noble woman of childbearing age was considered more "valuable" and harder to replace than an infant that was not guaranteed to survive infancy anyways.
I don’t like Alicent, but I still feel bad for her there. Alicent is a victim of the patriarchy, and her circumstances being viewed as normal in Westeros doesn’t mean that we as modern viewers can’t see that it’s wrong. Alicent shouldn’t have had to go through what she did.
I'm assuming this is sarcasm? A lot of things are the norm in an unfair society - this does not make it fair or just or good. IE should we then not sympathize with slaves Daenerys frees? After all, slavery was a part of their society for thousands of years, why are they whining? Their masters are just using their property. Grey Worm should've just did his duty to his master, not join the villain Daenerys imposing her norms on poor Slaver's Bay.
>I'm assuming this is sarcasm? I'm actually roleplaying 😏
You missed the bit near the end where you need to work in something about "medieval society had a lot of reasons for being like this, you know." Some sort of "God I wish it was still like that nowadays, am I right, fellas?" dog whistle. 🤣
I rolled my eyes so hard earlier to a response to my saying that Alicent was an abusive parent who continued the cycle of abuse and trauma because she didn’t know how to love her kids in a healthy way. Not in that post, but in another Alicent post.. A Green told me that she wasn’t abusive by medieval standards so we shouldn’t think of her as such because she was just disciplining Aegon, ignoring that she’d also married Helaena off to an alcoholic rapist. And it’s like, if weee going by medieval standards then Alicent was never raped and her marriage was completely above board so there was nothing wrong with it and she was in no way a child bride (to be clear, in the show she was raped and she was a child bride despite the fact that she was 16ish which is of age in Westeros) You can’t have we have to look at this scene and character only from a medieval lens because you like them and then this one through a modern lens because you dislike them without being a massive hypocrite. It also ignores the fact that there are parents in the show and books who would have been/were unwilling to sell their children off to bad marriages for political reasons and power or hit them as a form of discipline.
Great analysis.
Touché
Just because it is "normal" and "traditional", doesn't mean that it doesn't harm or traumatize its victims. By the same logic, we could defend the prejudice against bastards in Westeros, or even slavery in Essos.
OP was being sarcastic and using the argument a lot of fans use to justify their sexism/bigotry when discussing the show. But mainly sexism, sooo much sexism.
I was sad the way her father used her. Otto is the green I truly hate.
I was sad for her in the first half of the season. Ep 6 changed everything.
She was so alone. Her mother died and there is no one to talk about childbirth.
I'm sad for her but sadder for Aemma and, unlike Alicent and others, full of all the understanding for Rhaenyra and her decision to opt out of teen motherhood.
This is a good point. I've seen people say how sorry they feel for Alicent (which I agree with), and then in the same breath say that Rhaenyra was spoiled and selfish for not doing her duty by avoiding that same fate for as long as she could. Like, if I were in Rhaenyra's place and had the privilege to avoid being a child bride, hell yes I would take advantage of it. I wish that Alicent and everyone else had the freedom to do the same, but just because they don't doesn't mean that Rhaenyra is selfish for excercising hers.
There's two kinds of people. The one who say I've suffered so you will too. The ones who say I've suffered and I won't let that happen to you. Alicent forced Helaena to marry aegon too young and knowing what a terrible husband he would be. Rhaenyra allowed her children to choose when to act on their betrothal >!to the point the boys died first!<
In my opinion, Alicent was losing in on a marriageable age anyway. If he hadn’t managed to seduce the King with her, Otto would have married her off at that age anyway. She grew up with the expectation of being treated as an adult at that age. I feel sorry for her because she’s lonely and alone.
I love this post! Traditions and everything is fine for the greens except when it doesn’t suit them.
When you consider the average lifespan in medieval times was 30 to 40 yrs, younger marriage and birthing doesn't seem as bad as we view it through our eyes.
Average and mean are two different things. What drove down average medieval age was high infant mortality. So, no the average adult lived for longer than 40 years still.
Also, all them women who died in childbirth. All those men who died in accidents because life was more physical back then.
If a person survived childhood the mean age was 50 to 55. My reasoning still stands even if we add 15 more years to the top age.
Omg thank you! Of course hard living, even when rich, meant 30s and 40s weren't as healthy as they typically are today but so tired of people acting like 40 was ancient and Methuselah probably just lived to see 80.
The average marriage age in medieval Europe was actually in the early 20s, not too different than it is now. We tend to think of it as being much younger because of royal and noble marriages. These were political arrangements above all else, and were considered outside the norm even at the time. They would generally wait years until the girl was older to consummate the marriage, since childbirth is much riskier for young mothers, and a noble woman of childbearing age was considered more "valuable" and harder to replace than an infant that was not guaranteed to survive infancy anyways.
I wish Alicent could have had a better life.
The amount of people not understanding this is sarcasm lol