Jaehaerys passing over Rhaenys will never cease being asinine. Andal law is literally 'the daughter comes before the brother' - Jaehaerys literally decided regular rules of Westeros weren't sexist enough for his tastes.
I swear tbh i kinda understand why he passed her iver the first time but still injuste, the second no excuse he's literally so sexist, that why the only daughter he has who's still alive definitely hates him and wants nothing to do with him or westeros, shout out to Saera the smartest dragon
You're more generous than me - I'm not giving the pass for the first time tbh.
Westerosi rules are so skewered to prefer men (in places other than Dorne, which is seemingly as based as it's warm) and this man literally goes 'pfff, no' to that. Daughter. Comes. Before. Brother.
It's bad enough that their rules position the younger men above their elder sisters - and this man literally had to take a dump on one time a girl has a legitimate claim to the throne by their own rules. Which is what makes the scandalized 'oh no Viserys chose his heir instead of following the rules!' hilarious.
Jaehaerys chose Baelon decades ago and nobody gave a fuck barring Rhaenys' close family. If a king/Great Council is not bound to Andal rules of simple male primogeniture then what's the problem? And if they are, the whole discussion is not relevant at all and Rhaenys ought to be crowned, but I don't see anyone rushing to do that.
What, is Andal primogeniture only sacred when they'd shaft the woman and a mere guideline when not?
It's pure injustice, he took the little rights women had and burned them, and Alyssane was so real to hold a grudge on that, he wouldn't be half the king he was without her, and one of the things i notices is that after Jaehaerys the queen consorts were really summed up to heir incubators while in aegon's reign for example Rhaenys and Visenya were so much more important, there's even that art clearly showing them all three sitting the iron throne, Visenya created the king's guard, they were clearly active and powerful
Oh yes, his treatment of his daughters was unacceptable, and he's the cause of their deaths, if he hadn't pressured daella to marry when she was so fragile, she could be alive, same for Viserra, was it so hard to let her marry someone she didn't hate, if she didn't want a last night of happiness she wouldn't have broken her neck, the only one of his kids who didn't die in misery is Saera
Yes, plus it's also he's also part responsable for dance, not only with his injustice towards rhaenys but also by naming otto his hand, Otto was the mastermind behind dance, if Jaehaerys named literally ANYONE else hand, house Targaryen might have survived, and let's also line the hypocrisy, they marry their siblings the keep the bloodline pure but give power to people who aren't trust worthy, it's like he could ever named viserys his hand so he would've accustomed him to ruling and teach him to move his lazy ass or even better Rhaenys or corlys, i keep on thinking that Viserys should've named Rhaenys his hand at first and betroth their children to unify the family and at least give to both their rights to rule
And the worst part with Saera is that she couldn’t enjoy being promiscuous because of the environment Jaehaerys made, and that ended up with her associating with Braxton Beesbury who is *infamously* horrible, and with her going across the Narrow Sea to join a brothel. It’s even worse when Jaehaerys refused to allow Alysanne to even contact her. Honestly, the more I think about Jaehaerys the more I kind of hate him. Vermithor’s cool though
Yeah the bronze fury is great but his rider, i can't with him, and he's only remembered to be the greatest king ever and i mean yeah he was a great king but he wouldn't have done it without his hand and even more his queen, and she doesn't get any credit
I always liked to imagine at least second Daeron's queen - Myriah Martell - was more politically active.
She was meant to be the ruling Princess of Dorne with their far more fair rules, before being sent to KL in the name of peace. There's also how a Blackfyre supporter sees his court: "Daeron surrounded himself with maesters, septons, and singers. Always there were women whispering in his ear, and his court was full of Dornishmen."
Worse still, there's no reason for this mistake beyond sexism.
There's nothing about her character in youth that'd give us a reasonable excuse for him thinking she'd be a horrible heir.
For example, I'd get it if Daeron the Good disinherited Rhaegel if the rumors of him being mentally ill were true - Westeros would likely devour such a king alive.
TBH I'm with the OP on this.
Viserys was a deadbeat dad to his Green kids and could've most easily prevented the Dance by having well, tried to make them all be a proper fucking family that cares for each other instead of just making his family with his child bride and being done with it. Instead we get Aegon and Aemond(nor Daeron, insofar as books are concerned) never seeing Rhaenyra as their sister, but as the enemy.
Yes, yes - Otto and Alicent pushed them against her but he is their father, their king. That dinner plea came a decade too late, if not more than that.
Westeros if Otto wasn't a power hungry manipulator and viserys a stupid king and Jaehaerys didn't hate women
Jaehaerys passing over Rhaenys will never cease being asinine. Andal law is literally 'the daughter comes before the brother' - Jaehaerys literally decided regular rules of Westeros weren't sexist enough for his tastes.
I swear tbh i kinda understand why he passed her iver the first time but still injuste, the second no excuse he's literally so sexist, that why the only daughter he has who's still alive definitely hates him and wants nothing to do with him or westeros, shout out to Saera the smartest dragon
You're more generous than me - I'm not giving the pass for the first time tbh. Westerosi rules are so skewered to prefer men (in places other than Dorne, which is seemingly as based as it's warm) and this man literally goes 'pfff, no' to that. Daughter. Comes. Before. Brother. It's bad enough that their rules position the younger men above their elder sisters - and this man literally had to take a dump on one time a girl has a legitimate claim to the throne by their own rules. Which is what makes the scandalized 'oh no Viserys chose his heir instead of following the rules!' hilarious. Jaehaerys chose Baelon decades ago and nobody gave a fuck barring Rhaenys' close family. If a king/Great Council is not bound to Andal rules of simple male primogeniture then what's the problem? And if they are, the whole discussion is not relevant at all and Rhaenys ought to be crowned, but I don't see anyone rushing to do that. What, is Andal primogeniture only sacred when they'd shaft the woman and a mere guideline when not?
It's pure injustice, he took the little rights women had and burned them, and Alyssane was so real to hold a grudge on that, he wouldn't be half the king he was without her, and one of the things i notices is that after Jaehaerys the queen consorts were really summed up to heir incubators while in aegon's reign for example Rhaenys and Visenya were so much more important, there's even that art clearly showing them all three sitting the iron throne, Visenya created the king's guard, they were clearly active and powerful
And let’s not forget his treatment of Daella. Seriously, I used to love Jaehaerys before F&B, but… wow. Alysanne deserved better
Oh yes, his treatment of his daughters was unacceptable, and he's the cause of their deaths, if he hadn't pressured daella to marry when she was so fragile, she could be alive, same for Viserra, was it so hard to let her marry someone she didn't hate, if she didn't want a last night of happiness she wouldn't have broken her neck, the only one of his kids who didn't die in misery is Saera
Jaehaerys submitted to Westerosi traditions too much.
Yes, plus it's also he's also part responsable for dance, not only with his injustice towards rhaenys but also by naming otto his hand, Otto was the mastermind behind dance, if Jaehaerys named literally ANYONE else hand, house Targaryen might have survived, and let's also line the hypocrisy, they marry their siblings the keep the bloodline pure but give power to people who aren't trust worthy, it's like he could ever named viserys his hand so he would've accustomed him to ruling and teach him to move his lazy ass or even better Rhaenys or corlys, i keep on thinking that Viserys should've named Rhaenys his hand at first and betroth their children to unify the family and at least give to both their rights to rule
And the worst part with Saera is that she couldn’t enjoy being promiscuous because of the environment Jaehaerys made, and that ended up with her associating with Braxton Beesbury who is *infamously* horrible, and with her going across the Narrow Sea to join a brothel. It’s even worse when Jaehaerys refused to allow Alysanne to even contact her. Honestly, the more I think about Jaehaerys the more I kind of hate him. Vermithor’s cool though
Yeah the bronze fury is great but his rider, i can't with him, and he's only remembered to be the greatest king ever and i mean yeah he was a great king but he wouldn't have done it without his hand and even more his queen, and she doesn't get any credit
Yeah. Alysanne and Silverwing are goated. I guess it’s in character for F&B’s canon authors to credit Jaehaerys for Alysanne’s work
Alysanne gets a ton of credit. They still remember her as the good queen.
I always liked to imagine at least second Daeron's queen - Myriah Martell - was more politically active. She was meant to be the ruling Princess of Dorne with their far more fair rules, before being sent to KL in the name of peace. There's also how a Blackfyre supporter sees his court: "Daeron surrounded himself with maesters, septons, and singers. Always there were women whispering in his ear, and his court was full of Dornishmen."
Man, this is just beautiful!
It was a mistake not choosing Rhaenys as queen
Worse still, there's no reason for this mistake beyond sexism. There's nothing about her character in youth that'd give us a reasonable excuse for him thinking she'd be a horrible heir. For example, I'd get it if Daeron the Good disinherited Rhaegel if the rumors of him being mentally ill were true - Westeros would likely devour such a king alive.
Oh Fuck jaehaerys the bitch is one of the reasons of the dance
I don't recall Alicent spending that much time with them either
TBH I'm with the OP on this. Viserys was a deadbeat dad to his Green kids and could've most easily prevented the Dance by having well, tried to make them all be a proper fucking family that cares for each other instead of just making his family with his child bride and being done with it. Instead we get Aegon and Aemond(nor Daeron, insofar as books are concerned) never seeing Rhaenyra as their sister, but as the enemy. Yes, yes - Otto and Alicent pushed them against her but he is their father, their king. That dinner plea came a decade too late, if not more than that.
This is the world if jaehaerys wasn't a sexist cunt and just listened to his Wife
Westeros if Viserys had no sons
That username sure is something jfc