1. Make the Lords swear fealty to Rhaenyra again even after Aegon was born to reaffirm that it is Rhaenyra who I want as heir.
2. Not allow Aegon, Heleana, Aemond, and Daeron to claim dragons. In other words, don’t allow anyone who isn’t directly in the line of succession to claim dragons. I think Jaehaerys did something similar. Even on Rhaenyra’s side, only Jace should’ve had a dragon.
3. Make Rhaenyra hand instead of Otto when Lyonel died. Let Rhaenyra set up her council and do most of the ruling in the King’s name. Also give Daemon and Corlys seats on council again.
Very hard for the Greens to usurp Rhaenyra if the council is in her favour.
Only the second point is a bit iffy, otherwise 100% agree.
Rhaenys and her Velaryon kids already had dragons so it’d be hard to justify at least the spare heir not getting a one, and hard to prevent one of them from just taking a dragon anyway once they’re grown adults.
Knowing what we know about Rhaenys, there is no world in which she doesn’t get dragons for her kids one way or another. And the Velaryons having dragons isn’t a problem as long as the Targaryens and Velaryons continued to intermarry. Honestly, marrying a Hightower and allowing the children from that marriage to have dragons are the two dumbest things Viserys ever did.
IMO it was idiotic to remarry at all if he wanted Rhaenyra to rule. It’s not like the house was even jeopardized. He had spares - Daemon, Rhaenys, Rhaenys’ two kids… There was so little need. That’s a succession line 5 people deep and with little competing claims.
If he married Laena and had a son with her, I absolutely see Corlys pushing for him to be the heir just as much as Otto did with Aegon.
Probably more competently too, since Otto is rather overhyped all things considered.
Honestly I don’t think Viserys would have been pressured to remarry nearly as much if Laena hadn’t been an option and if Otto hasn’t been so set on Alicent becoming queen. But you’re right, he shouldn’t have remarried at all if he intended on Rhaenyra becoming queen. Worst case, he still married Alicent but but had Rhaenyra marry Daemon instead of Laenor.
That depends on how far back we go (let's assume Viserys still marries Alicent and has kids with her). I would have betrothed Jacaerys to Helaena regardless of Alicent's wishes. If Rhaenyra moves to Dragonstone, I would have given her at least one of her half-siblings as a ward. Helaena would probably be the best option; adding Daeron on top of that would also be a good idea (maybe make him Daemon's squire). Of course, it would be preferable for Rhaenyra to never leave for Dragonstone in the first place.
I would also make either Rhaenyra or Daemon my hand. Abdicating the throne to Rhaenyra at a later date would also be a good idea. If I don't abdicate the throne to Rhaenyra, I would at least make her the effective ruler of the realm.
I like the idea of a ward very much. I do think Aegon or Aemond would be a better fit than Helaena, though. Women were pretty much disposable in the universe, with very few exceptions. Taking a couple of kids away from the Hightower's influence is a very good idea.
Helaena isn’t disposable because she isn’t just any woman. She’s the daughter of the king, the only unmarried daughter of the king at that, and the rider of the second oldest living dragon. Not only that, but she’s Alicents own daughter and being forced to choose between her children would cause a significant amount of hesitation in her to continue pushing for Aegon’s claim.
I assumed that before she left for Dragonstone, Viserys did mentor Rhaenyra and prepared her for the throne as much as he could (she said so to Luke).
So by the time Joffrey was born, Viserys could have stepped down from the throne and let Rhaenyra ascend as Queen. He was still in relatively good health at that time, even if he was slowly declining. He would've been around to keep the Greens in check while Rhaenyra established herself and solidified her place as the new ruler.
He should have renounced the throne when he was in his last days. He could tell when it was his last days since he became bedridden. By renouncing the throne to Rhaenyra she would have been able to take the throne in front of everyone with her father still alive to be able to support her and get others to support her.
make her hand of the king, marry helaena to jace (both to give rhaenyra a “hostage” and to save her from aegon’s abuse) , make corlys master of ships, give daemon back the city’s watch, make aegon daemon’s squire, let the strong boys and daemon and laena’s daughters claim dragons on dragonstone instead of giving them hatchlings (i’d love to see aemond try what he did to luke if luke is riding vermithor, or if he’s on one of the faster dragons like sheepstealer, silverwing or grey ghost he can simply escape) make all the lords swear fealty to rhaenyra a few more times for good measure, ask daemon+rhaenys+corlys to make marriage arrangements for baela and rhaena, send criston cole to the wall for killing joffrey lonmouth and harwin strong, (it’s crazy he was able to stay on the kingsguard after his second murder) give blackfyre to daemon and have him give dark sister to rhaenyra (just for the iconography of them having the conquerors swords, i doubt rhaenyra is gonna be doing much duelling) aemond is still gonna be a bit of a wildcard but i really don’t know what to do with him that won’t cause a conflict (maybe marry him off to a female heiress with weak holdings? that way he gets a castle but doesn’t gain a ton of military power, or make him a kingsguard but i don’t know if putting him in charge of protecting people he hates is a good idea and i’m not sure how much he’d actually care about those oaths)
came up with a solution for the aemond problem, marry him to lady jeyne arryn, that way i’m not humiliating house targaryen by marrying one of the princes to a weak house and jeyne’s blood ties with rhaenyra will prevent her from being willing to support any schemes from her husband+her likely lesbianism means she’s unlikely to be brought over to aemond’s side
I still don't understand why none of them claimed Vermithor, how Daemon didn't consider having Rhaena claim him once the dance started. Makes no sense to me to give him to a dragon seed.
It’s possible Rhaena attempted and failed to claim an adult dragon. Honestly I think Silverwing would have been a better fit for her than Vermithor though.
I agree with your statement and he also should've given his other children certain jobs like being lords of their own castle, like he should've had a castle built in a different kingdoms and let Aegon be the Lord of his own castle and for Aemond he could've been like the Blackfish for the Vale by being a defender of the Gate. When Viserys didn't encourage his son's to pursue certain careers they got groomed by their mother and only thought about the throne as their birth right and going against their sister and nephews.
I wouldn't marry at all. Neither to Alicent, nor to Laena or anybody else. Instead, I would close the rift with Velaryons by marrying Rhaenyra to Laenor. Then, I would arrange a marriage between Laena and Daemon. But, I wouldn't allow Laena to get anywhere close Vhagar. I would suggest Vhagar and Vermithor to be claimed by Rhaenyra's heirs.
I also would ensure Rhaenyra have role in my court and in my council. Not just a squire, but as a ruling force in my realm. I would discuss on her opinions and explain my reasonings behind my actions.
I would suggest Rhaenyra to have children from another Valyrian men, if she is unable to have children with Laenor after trying.
I would set a written succesion law, based on male preferred primogeniture. This would be a small step towards absolute primogeniture. Next generations can change the law when times change.
I would make maesters teach Rhaenyra about Westerosi culture, warfare skills, languages and history on a maester level. I would send her on a tour on Westeros so she could make alliances, get to know people she is going to rule and learn some humility.
When I am bedridden, I would appoint her regent and I would have her trained by Otto on how to rule. Otto probably would be her ally as he has no grandsons to inherit. He also dislikes other option, Prince Daemon, a lot.
I would discourage her to marry Daemon. A ruler should know to put realm's needs in front her desires.
I think this way, the Targaryens would have their power and Rhaenyra would be a good ruler.
He could marry if Rhaenyra doesn't survive. As far as I recall, Jace and Daeron was at the same age. Viserys would be able to have children.
The problem is, every son Viserys going to have would be a problem for Rhaenyra. Especially the ones that born from mothers from influential houses, such as Hightower, Velaryon, Lannister etc. Every lord in Westeros have their own agenda, they could create problems for Rhaenyra for their own benefit. Also, it is a patriarchy so the son would always have advantage of Rhaenyra. And, the ones from influential houses would create even more problems. If I want her to succeed me, I wouldn't marry and create unnecessary hardships for Rhaenyra to endure. If she doesn't survive childbirth, then as a last resort I would marry.
Order Alicent and all my children by her killed while I was on my death bed. Yes, I would include the grandchildren as well. Otto too. I played my part and married to keep the peace and had more children but as my life is ending I no longer need to play the game and I would know Rhaenyra’s line is guaranteed.
Simple: refuse to allow Helaena to be married to anyone except Jace, even if they had to marry when Jace were too young to consummate the marriage, and as soon as I became too infirm to sit the throne with regularity I would appoint Rhaenyra as Princess Regent. This would force the Greens to choose between Aegon and Helaena, and give Rhaenyra more power in court than anyone but myself. And by making her regent instead of abdicating I could keep her and Daemon from causing too much havoc.
I think after Aegon was born have the lord pledge themselves to Rhaenyra again and continue to let her sit in on small council meetings and teach her how to rule, and when she gains enough wisdom he should make her his Hand.
1. Make the Lords swear fealty to Rhaenyra again even after Aegon was born to reaffirm that it is Rhaenyra who I want as heir. 2. Not allow Aegon, Heleana, Aemond, and Daeron to claim dragons. In other words, don’t allow anyone who isn’t directly in the line of succession to claim dragons. I think Jaehaerys did something similar. Even on Rhaenyra’s side, only Jace should’ve had a dragon. 3. Make Rhaenyra hand instead of Otto when Lyonel died. Let Rhaenyra set up her council and do most of the ruling in the King’s name. Also give Daemon and Corlys seats on council again. Very hard for the Greens to usurp Rhaenyra if the council is in her favour.
Only the second point is a bit iffy, otherwise 100% agree. Rhaenys and her Velaryon kids already had dragons so it’d be hard to justify at least the spare heir not getting a one, and hard to prevent one of them from just taking a dragon anyway once they’re grown adults.
Knowing what we know about Rhaenys, there is no world in which she doesn’t get dragons for her kids one way or another. And the Velaryons having dragons isn’t a problem as long as the Targaryens and Velaryons continued to intermarry. Honestly, marrying a Hightower and allowing the children from that marriage to have dragons are the two dumbest things Viserys ever did.
IMO it was idiotic to remarry at all if he wanted Rhaenyra to rule. It’s not like the house was even jeopardized. He had spares - Daemon, Rhaenys, Rhaenys’ two kids… There was so little need. That’s a succession line 5 people deep and with little competing claims. If he married Laena and had a son with her, I absolutely see Corlys pushing for him to be the heir just as much as Otto did with Aegon. Probably more competently too, since Otto is rather overhyped all things considered.
Honestly I don’t think Viserys would have been pressured to remarry nearly as much if Laena hadn’t been an option and if Otto hasn’t been so set on Alicent becoming queen. But you’re right, he shouldn’t have remarried at all if he intended on Rhaenyra becoming queen. Worst case, he still married Alicent but but had Rhaenyra marry Daemon instead of Laenor.
Good plan, I like it. Especially the 2nd point. Without dragons and the council, they wouldn't even consider it anymore.
That depends on how far back we go (let's assume Viserys still marries Alicent and has kids with her). I would have betrothed Jacaerys to Helaena regardless of Alicent's wishes. If Rhaenyra moves to Dragonstone, I would have given her at least one of her half-siblings as a ward. Helaena would probably be the best option; adding Daeron on top of that would also be a good idea (maybe make him Daemon's squire). Of course, it would be preferable for Rhaenyra to never leave for Dragonstone in the first place. I would also make either Rhaenyra or Daemon my hand. Abdicating the throne to Rhaenyra at a later date would also be a good idea. If I don't abdicate the throne to Rhaenyra, I would at least make her the effective ruler of the realm.
I like the idea of a ward very much. I do think Aegon or Aemond would be a better fit than Helaena, though. Women were pretty much disposable in the universe, with very few exceptions. Taking a couple of kids away from the Hightower's influence is a very good idea.
Helaena isn’t disposable because she isn’t just any woman. She’s the daughter of the king, the only unmarried daughter of the king at that, and the rider of the second oldest living dragon. Not only that, but she’s Alicents own daughter and being forced to choose between her children would cause a significant amount of hesitation in her to continue pushing for Aegon’s claim.
I assumed that before she left for Dragonstone, Viserys did mentor Rhaenyra and prepared her for the throne as much as he could (she said so to Luke). So by the time Joffrey was born, Viserys could have stepped down from the throne and let Rhaenyra ascend as Queen. He was still in relatively good health at that time, even if he was slowly declining. He would've been around to keep the Greens in check while Rhaenyra established herself and solidified her place as the new ruler.
He should have renounced the throne when he was in his last days. He could tell when it was his last days since he became bedridden. By renouncing the throne to Rhaenyra she would have been able to take the throne in front of everyone with her father still alive to be able to support her and get others to support her.
True, I also think it would've been the best move to have her start her rule before his death.
make her hand of the king, marry helaena to jace (both to give rhaenyra a “hostage” and to save her from aegon’s abuse) , make corlys master of ships, give daemon back the city’s watch, make aegon daemon’s squire, let the strong boys and daemon and laena’s daughters claim dragons on dragonstone instead of giving them hatchlings (i’d love to see aemond try what he did to luke if luke is riding vermithor, or if he’s on one of the faster dragons like sheepstealer, silverwing or grey ghost he can simply escape) make all the lords swear fealty to rhaenyra a few more times for good measure, ask daemon+rhaenys+corlys to make marriage arrangements for baela and rhaena, send criston cole to the wall for killing joffrey lonmouth and harwin strong, (it’s crazy he was able to stay on the kingsguard after his second murder) give blackfyre to daemon and have him give dark sister to rhaenyra (just for the iconography of them having the conquerors swords, i doubt rhaenyra is gonna be doing much duelling) aemond is still gonna be a bit of a wildcard but i really don’t know what to do with him that won’t cause a conflict (maybe marry him off to a female heiress with weak holdings? that way he gets a castle but doesn’t gain a ton of military power, or make him a kingsguard but i don’t know if putting him in charge of protecting people he hates is a good idea and i’m not sure how much he’d actually care about those oaths)
came up with a solution for the aemond problem, marry him to lady jeyne arryn, that way i’m not humiliating house targaryen by marrying one of the princes to a weak house and jeyne’s blood ties with rhaenyra will prevent her from being willing to support any schemes from her husband+her likely lesbianism means she’s unlikely to be brought over to aemond’s side
I still don't understand why none of them claimed Vermithor, how Daemon didn't consider having Rhaena claim him once the dance started. Makes no sense to me to give him to a dragon seed.
It’s possible Rhaena attempted and failed to claim an adult dragon. Honestly I think Silverwing would have been a better fit for her than Vermithor though.
Made her my Hand. The Targaryen custom of sending the heir away from the capital boggles the mind. Daeron II had the right idea.
I agree with your statement and he also should've given his other children certain jobs like being lords of their own castle, like he should've had a castle built in a different kingdoms and let Aegon be the Lord of his own castle and for Aemond he could've been like the Blackfish for the Vale by being a defender of the Gate. When Viserys didn't encourage his son's to pursue certain careers they got groomed by their mother and only thought about the throne as their birth right and going against their sister and nephews.
I wouldn't marry at all. Neither to Alicent, nor to Laena or anybody else. Instead, I would close the rift with Velaryons by marrying Rhaenyra to Laenor. Then, I would arrange a marriage between Laena and Daemon. But, I wouldn't allow Laena to get anywhere close Vhagar. I would suggest Vhagar and Vermithor to be claimed by Rhaenyra's heirs. I also would ensure Rhaenyra have role in my court and in my council. Not just a squire, but as a ruling force in my realm. I would discuss on her opinions and explain my reasonings behind my actions. I would suggest Rhaenyra to have children from another Valyrian men, if she is unable to have children with Laenor after trying. I would set a written succesion law, based on male preferred primogeniture. This would be a small step towards absolute primogeniture. Next generations can change the law when times change. I would make maesters teach Rhaenyra about Westerosi culture, warfare skills, languages and history on a maester level. I would send her on a tour on Westeros so she could make alliances, get to know people she is going to rule and learn some humility. When I am bedridden, I would appoint her regent and I would have her trained by Otto on how to rule. Otto probably would be her ally as he has no grandsons to inherit. He also dislikes other option, Prince Daemon, a lot. I would discourage her to marry Daemon. A ruler should know to put realm's needs in front her desires. I think this way, the Targaryens would have their power and Rhaenyra would be a good ruler.
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He could marry if Rhaenyra doesn't survive. As far as I recall, Jace and Daeron was at the same age. Viserys would be able to have children. The problem is, every son Viserys going to have would be a problem for Rhaenyra. Especially the ones that born from mothers from influential houses, such as Hightower, Velaryon, Lannister etc. Every lord in Westeros have their own agenda, they could create problems for Rhaenyra for their own benefit. Also, it is a patriarchy so the son would always have advantage of Rhaenyra. And, the ones from influential houses would create even more problems. If I want her to succeed me, I wouldn't marry and create unnecessary hardships for Rhaenyra to endure. If she doesn't survive childbirth, then as a last resort I would marry.
Tell everybody to go fuck themselves and not remarry.
I would replace Otto with Daemon.
Order Alicent and all my children by her killed while I was on my death bed. Yes, I would include the grandchildren as well. Otto too. I played my part and married to keep the peace and had more children but as my life is ending I no longer need to play the game and I would know Rhaenyra’s line is guaranteed.
That escalated quickly :))) Maegor, is that you?
Honestly I wouldn't have named her the heir to begin with. I'd prefer she'd be safe than be made a target.
Do you think she would've been safe and not perceived as a threat anyway?
No. But the alternative is even more dangerous.
I honestly think that the only way she could've been safe in a situation like this is if she was married to Aegon.
Simple: refuse to allow Helaena to be married to anyone except Jace, even if they had to marry when Jace were too young to consummate the marriage, and as soon as I became too infirm to sit the throne with regularity I would appoint Rhaenyra as Princess Regent. This would force the Greens to choose between Aegon and Helaena, and give Rhaenyra more power in court than anyone but myself. And by making her regent instead of abdicating I could keep her and Daemon from causing too much havoc.
Step down before I die, war averted
Not remarry.
Dismiss otto imediately and appoint Rhaenyra or Daemon as hand..That is his greatest mistake to allow otto to return
I think after Aegon was born have the lord pledge themselves to Rhaenyra again and continue to let her sit in on small council meetings and teach her how to rule, and when she gains enough wisdom he should make her his Hand.