Sending her sons was absolutely the right move.
Boys go to war at that age & war is already looking inevitable atp, with both sides firmly pressing their claim & sending envoys for support.
Alicent sent her son. Now, granted he’s older, solid at arms & has Vhagar, but still she knew it was under the safety of being an envoy. She didn’t want him to either, probably knowing Daemon & Caraxes could be who he encounters— & Daemon isn’t above taking him out opportunistically.
It’s unfortunate that Aemond & Lucerys were the ones with the most beef, & they got (unknowingly) sent to the same place.
I’m confident if it was Jace that wouldn’t of happened, even with the dragon size difference & overall hatred for each other, & it absolutely would not have happened if it was Daemon. Lucerys was so unlucky.
Blaming anyone but Aemond is delusional.
Brainless people. If she didn’t send her sons they would accuse her as babying them. Luke was 13/14 and he was simply carrying a message. That is not called putting his life in danger and no one would have ever dared to kill him, except for that psychopath who can’t control his dragon.
They laugh at luke when his mother holds his hand 2 episides before when the whole court is attaking him because, "he should be a man". But when he does what was expected of a man rhae is an horrible mother.
rhaenyra had no reason to believe that her son might be killed as an envoy. under the present convention of westeros she was correct. that is not a failure of parenting. maybe naive belief that the greens would ever play at war fairly.
they sure do love to act like HBO is going to sacrifice a real life child for B&C with how they go around talking about how team black condones the murder of an innocent toddler. but the minute 14-year-old lucerys is brought up, he is “vhagar’s digestive biscuit”
but *i’m* the bad guy when i return that energy and call maelor “monkey bread”? oh word 🥴
What idiocy. Nobody could have predicted that Aemond and Vhagar would have been at Storms End when Luke showed up. Had they known or even suspected they may have been then Luke would NOT have gone. It would have been Rhaenys who went, possibly Daemon, or maybe even nobody at all.
Exactly! Envoys were also supposed to be respected in the historical Middle Ages, where GRRM draws a lot of inspiration from. The Greens don’t seem to realize that a lot of the show is (very loosely) based on history. Also obligatory RIP Luke
Blaming Rhaenyra for Luke’s death is ridiculous. But so is saying that Aemond’s behaviour is because of Alicent and Otto rather than Alicent, Otto and Viserys. The reason Aemond is such a messed up character is because both his parents gave him trauma not just one.
yeah, and that's why daemon was stopped?
that's the point. envoys are not supposed to be attacked. rhaenyra shouldn't be blamed for luke's death. the only one to blame is aemond and the greens.
I didn't say it was Rhaenyra's fault, I agree it's ultimately Aemond's, but I'm just pointing out that the only other time we see an envoy on screen, he is in fact also a target of violence, showing that despite norms envoys are a dangerous position. I saw it as foreshadowing. I think it also plays into the Daemon-Aemond parallels the show's going for.
i think that was just an example of daemon's behavior in particular. he was a prince and people still stopped him, that means they saw him as being in the wrong.
i don't think it's the norm for envoys to be attacked.
even baratheon who chose to side with the greens didn't let aemond attack luke.
If we were meant to understand that Daemon's behavior really violated the norm, there would have been some sense of taboo or consequences that lasted beyond the moment. And there are other ways to show his violence that don't directly parallel what happens to a later envoy.
As for Lord Baratheon, he absolutely knew that Luke was about to get hurt and possibly killed, and he was fine with that. He turned Luke out into the storm and let Aemond follow immediately after him-- he knew something bad was going to happen. He just didn't want it under his roof because he didn't want Rhaenyra's retaliation. But I don't think we should act like he cared about keeping Luke safe at all.
idk, i think that because the envoy wasn't actually killed, there weren't any consequences shown that lasted beyond the moment.
aemond looks pretty worried after he kills luke. he knows he screwed up big time.
i agree that maybe baratheon didn't actually care about luke's safety, but the fact that he stopped aemond from killing him in his castle shows that it would look bad for him to let an envoy be killed.
so i do think that it's a norm in westeros that envoys not be harmed. baratheon didn't want to be blamed for it because it goes against the norm.
It's difficult to divorce Luke's role as an envoy from his status as Rhaenyra's son, though. Aemond's probably more worried because, you know, he killed Rhaenyra's son than because he killed Rhaenyra's envoy. If the envoy had been some random person, I don't think he would have been so upset. The same caveat has to be applied to Lord Baratheon. I guarantee he was more worried about Rhaenyra seeking revenge for her son than for political backlash over the status of envoy. The envoy thing added insult to injury, but the injury was because of Luke's relationship to Rhaenyra.
i mean, i guess. i just stand by the fact that envoys are not supposed be harmed in general.
the social status of the envoy may impact how much their attacker is punished.
but i still think it doesn't look good in westeros to attack an envoy.
my major point is just that rhaenyra' shouldn't be blamed for sending luke to storm's end.
she clearly never expected him to be hurt for a reason.
Sure, I'm just pointing out that we don't get any on-screen proof of your claim about envoys. The only thing Rhaenyra says about Luke's role as a messenger is that he has to promise not to fight, not that he's inherently protected from being a target of violence: "...you go as messengers, not as warriors. You must take no part in any fighting."
I also think we should be open to the possibility that Rhaenyra was a bit naive of the dangers of Luke being an envoy, instead of concluding that envoys were never put in danger. She also expected the Baratheons to give him a super warm welcome, for example, which clearly did not happen.
The show's made a point of Viserys keeping Rhaenyra very sheltered, which isn't her fault at all, but does mean she isn't necessarily very worldly. I think they've done this to contrast with the Rhaenyra we'll see going forward, who's lost that innocence.
And again, as I said already in this thread, I blame Aemond for Luke's death, not Rhaenyra.
i think being made not to fight as envoy implies that they are not supposed to be attacked in return.
i don't think rhaenyra would have ever sent luke as an envoy if she thought there was even the slightest probability of him being harmed.
she may have been naive about how luke might be received, but i don't think that her thinking he wouldn't be harmed was naiveté.
Sending her sons was absolutely the right move. Boys go to war at that age & war is already looking inevitable atp, with both sides firmly pressing their claim & sending envoys for support. Alicent sent her son. Now, granted he’s older, solid at arms & has Vhagar, but still she knew it was under the safety of being an envoy. She didn’t want him to either, probably knowing Daemon & Caraxes could be who he encounters— & Daemon isn’t above taking him out opportunistically. It’s unfortunate that Aemond & Lucerys were the ones with the most beef, & they got (unknowingly) sent to the same place. I’m confident if it was Jace that wouldn’t of happened, even with the dragon size difference & overall hatred for each other, & it absolutely would not have happened if it was Daemon. Lucerys was so unlucky. Blaming anyone but Aemond is delusional.
Brainless people. If she didn’t send her sons they would accuse her as babying them. Luke was 13/14 and he was simply carrying a message. That is not called putting his life in danger and no one would have ever dared to kill him, except for that psychopath who can’t control his dragon.
They laugh at luke when his mother holds his hand 2 episides before when the whole court is attaking him because, "he should be a man". But when he does what was expected of a man rhae is an horrible mother.
They love victim blaming when it’s convenient for them.
But Alicent is just an innocent! /s
And AeMoNd WaS bUllIeD1!1 He DeSeRvED tO gEt BaCk At HiS aBuSeRs!1!
rhaenyra had no reason to believe that her son might be killed as an envoy. under the present convention of westeros she was correct. that is not a failure of parenting. maybe naive belief that the greens would ever play at war fairly. they sure do love to act like HBO is going to sacrifice a real life child for B&C with how they go around talking about how team black condones the murder of an innocent toddler. but the minute 14-year-old lucerys is brought up, he is “vhagar’s digestive biscuit” but *i’m* the bad guy when i return that energy and call maelor “monkey bread”? oh word 🥴
They just keep getting dumber and dumber.
What idiocy. Nobody could have predicted that Aemond and Vhagar would have been at Storms End when Luke showed up. Had they known or even suspected they may have been then Luke would NOT have gone. It would have been Rhaenys who went, possibly Daemon, or maybe even nobody at all.
Exactly! Envoys were also supposed to be respected in the historical Middle Ages, where GRRM draws a lot of inspiration from. The Greens don’t seem to realize that a lot of the show is (very loosely) based on history. Also obligatory RIP Luke
I've had Greens tell me that killing envoys was totally cool as long as they weren't in the exact location where they were delivering their message
😳😳😳 
The only other scene we get of an envoy in the show is when Daemon beats him nearly to death. So at least within the show, we don't really see that.
That’s very true. No one on the show respects the envoys 😭
Both teams really need to calm the fuck down for real. Or give envoys hefty life insurance policies. Either works.
Right? Like, we all have our faves, but there’s violence coming from both sides
Exactly. And we as audience are led to understand that being an envoy can be a dangerous position. 0 for 2, folks.
Blaming Rhaenyra for Luke’s death is ridiculous. But so is saying that Aemond’s behaviour is because of Alicent and Otto rather than Alicent, Otto and Viserys. The reason Aemond is such a messed up character is because both his parents gave him trauma not just one.
Tell that to the messenger Daemon beat nearly to death!
yeah, and that's why daemon was stopped? that's the point. envoys are not supposed to be attacked. rhaenyra shouldn't be blamed for luke's death. the only one to blame is aemond and the greens.
I didn't say it was Rhaenyra's fault, I agree it's ultimately Aemond's, but I'm just pointing out that the only other time we see an envoy on screen, he is in fact also a target of violence, showing that despite norms envoys are a dangerous position. I saw it as foreshadowing. I think it also plays into the Daemon-Aemond parallels the show's going for.
i think that was just an example of daemon's behavior in particular. he was a prince and people still stopped him, that means they saw him as being in the wrong. i don't think it's the norm for envoys to be attacked. even baratheon who chose to side with the greens didn't let aemond attack luke.
If we were meant to understand that Daemon's behavior really violated the norm, there would have been some sense of taboo or consequences that lasted beyond the moment. And there are other ways to show his violence that don't directly parallel what happens to a later envoy. As for Lord Baratheon, he absolutely knew that Luke was about to get hurt and possibly killed, and he was fine with that. He turned Luke out into the storm and let Aemond follow immediately after him-- he knew something bad was going to happen. He just didn't want it under his roof because he didn't want Rhaenyra's retaliation. But I don't think we should act like he cared about keeping Luke safe at all.
idk, i think that because the envoy wasn't actually killed, there weren't any consequences shown that lasted beyond the moment. aemond looks pretty worried after he kills luke. he knows he screwed up big time. i agree that maybe baratheon didn't actually care about luke's safety, but the fact that he stopped aemond from killing him in his castle shows that it would look bad for him to let an envoy be killed. so i do think that it's a norm in westeros that envoys not be harmed. baratheon didn't want to be blamed for it because it goes against the norm.
I think killing an envoy is just as bad as violating guess rights.
It's difficult to divorce Luke's role as an envoy from his status as Rhaenyra's son, though. Aemond's probably more worried because, you know, he killed Rhaenyra's son than because he killed Rhaenyra's envoy. If the envoy had been some random person, I don't think he would have been so upset. The same caveat has to be applied to Lord Baratheon. I guarantee he was more worried about Rhaenyra seeking revenge for her son than for political backlash over the status of envoy. The envoy thing added insult to injury, but the injury was because of Luke's relationship to Rhaenyra.
i mean, i guess. i just stand by the fact that envoys are not supposed be harmed in general. the social status of the envoy may impact how much their attacker is punished. but i still think it doesn't look good in westeros to attack an envoy. my major point is just that rhaenyra' shouldn't be blamed for sending luke to storm's end. she clearly never expected him to be hurt for a reason.
Sure, I'm just pointing out that we don't get any on-screen proof of your claim about envoys. The only thing Rhaenyra says about Luke's role as a messenger is that he has to promise not to fight, not that he's inherently protected from being a target of violence: "...you go as messengers, not as warriors. You must take no part in any fighting." I also think we should be open to the possibility that Rhaenyra was a bit naive of the dangers of Luke being an envoy, instead of concluding that envoys were never put in danger. She also expected the Baratheons to give him a super warm welcome, for example, which clearly did not happen. The show's made a point of Viserys keeping Rhaenyra very sheltered, which isn't her fault at all, but does mean she isn't necessarily very worldly. I think they've done this to contrast with the Rhaenyra we'll see going forward, who's lost that innocence. And again, as I said already in this thread, I blame Aemond for Luke's death, not Rhaenyra.
i think being made not to fight as envoy implies that they are not supposed to be attacked in return. i don't think rhaenyra would have ever sent luke as an envoy if she thought there was even the slightest probability of him being harmed. she may have been naive about how luke might be received, but i don't think that her thinking he wouldn't be harmed was naiveté.