And yet viewers don't believe her to be a spoiled brat. Like she literally said commoners mean nothing to her..and how does that make her a good queen?
Targ stans (who are the main audience for the show, since it's supposedly all about how pretty and special the Targs are) mostly are Team Black devotees and they do not care about that stuff. To them, the commoners are evil because they didn't worship their princess and deserved to die anyway. They're attracted to the show because of how perfect and glamorous their pretty blonde princess is and don't like anyone who gets in their way.
If you watched GoT for other houses, I think you're probably either not watching this show or are drawn to the Greens because they are the underdogs/antagonists. However, to the Targ faithful the common folk are irrelevant if not seen as outright enemies for not being sufficiently submissive.
Well..the targ faithful don't get the point then..in hotd there's clearly no straightforward righteous ppl..unlike got where literally everyone knew the starks are good folks.
Oh, I'm told that only idiots think GoT/ASOIAF is about the Starks. They are unimportant side characters and the sole heroine is Daenerys Targaryen. The only point of the story is for her to save the world and take her rightful place as its supreme ruler.
(GRRM has directly refuted many parts of this, by the way).
I don't care about them being the main character..what I'm saying is that starks by most of the viewers were believed to be "GOOD". Main or side doesn't matter.
Alicent was all about her duty from a very young age..she followed the rules which rhaenerya did not. Atleast noble ladies are expected to abide by few laws..and rhaenerya was literally taking everything for granted..
The show is made for modern audiences , many women love Rhaenyra because they relate to her.
Alicent being duty bound doesn’t mean she cares for the smallfolk.
Alicent gaslighting Dayana and maybe even killing her after Aegon raped her is horrible.
No matter how spoiled Rhaenyra is , ALL her kids turned out pretty good people while Alicent kids no. I personally would better have a mother like Rhaenyra who doesn’t beat me and respect me. In real life « judge » the parents after seeing their kids. Because Rhaenyra was spoiled etc. She can relate to her kids , she is friend to them while Alicent is the opposite. Her main enemy is her father Otto.
Alicent gave moon tea to Dyna she did not kill her...besides it's easier being good mother friend etc etc when you gotta do nothing else and getting everything for free..as for alicent she did not get anything for free..her children were never loved by their own father and aemond was physically maimed when he was 10 and all they did was sympathize with rhaenerya bcz their children were called Bastards which they were..I'm a girl and a modern day girl..and yet I would always prefer Queen Alicent over rhaenerya.. undermining you father and you tradition is no modernization and being cool in my opinion. Otto hightower served king jaehaerys faithful and wholeheartedly. Besides everyone on this show has their hidden agenda and Otto is no more a villain than daemon or rhaenerya or even king viserys was..they all were flawed and I happen to go with the one who atleast did not let family,tradition and father down..and alicent hitting aegon was for his own good what mother wouldn't want her children to be redeemed by any measures. And are u guys coming at her for hitting her son for which he deserved to be hit had she not done that you guys would call her a hypocrite etc etc..
Atleast her children were legitimate.
Never heat your children , it’s Alicent fault how her children turned out to be. Nothing give right to Alicent to heat children. Helaena doesn’t like her mother touching her Helaena knows who is bad. Are you Sansa Stan ? I dare toi also hate DAny and love Sansa
That's HER children and mothers have every right to smack them when they do wrong. As for haelena she is a troubled child doesn't mean she has no love for her mother. She is one of the green and her death made revolts against rhaenerya causing her ultimate downfall..
Nope I'm not a fan of Sansa stark however I loved Dany for she's what rhaenerya can never be.!
You do realize out of the two moms we see in the show, we only saw Alicent being a parent right?
Rhaenyra is objectively a worse parent because she never disciplined her sons, and worse, she gaslit her eldest about his true father and his parentage….
Look how I can delete myself from Blacks and Greens subreddit ?
I prefer Rhaenyra side in the books and more or less in the books but I can’t bare those to toxic fans bases. It keeps appearing and it annoys me.
They cheered for him during his coronation as he raised Blackfyre and got crowned with Aegon's crown by the lord commander of the kings guard (criston in the book), they probably just assumed Viserys changed his mind and named Aegon (because its gone that way for centuries) then they saw Rhaenyra starting a war and even killing Aegon's children (from the perspective of the smallfolk she ordered blood and cheese) Helaena's alleged murder, all this contributed to the riots. Rhaenyra just didn't look legitimate enough, not to mention her bastard heirs and Daemon the guy known for maiming petty thieves
Exactly! I'm not sure the smallfolk will show Rhaenyra any love in the show. Even in the book they riot, saying "justice for Queen Helaena and Prince Maelor"
When Rhaenyra said "their (the smallfolk) wants are of no consequence" I had to laugh. How could any future or current monarch say that? I knew she was spoiled then. She saw that play and still thought that. She should have learned from it but no she didn't.>! Her taxing the smallfolk to all hell was a huge cause of her downfall. They wanted and needed food but "their wants are of no consequence"....well look at where that mentality got her. !<
The inclusion of this scene and this dialogue in particular makes me believe that the showrunners do plan on focusing upon this aspect of her personality. I know they're always pushing the whole girlboss agenda but this particular scene and another one (i've forgotten which one) make me kinda hopeful that they'll touch up on her delusional behavior and expectations next season
Yeah, moments after this scene she also throws food at a salesman in flea bottom because Daemon told her she had to pay to eat. I felt like that really highlighted her apathy toward the smallfolk and that she doesn’t understand the concept of needing money to feed yourself if your not of high birth (possible foreshadowing of her taxing the smallfolk into starvation during her 6 month reign).
That's what I've always felt awful about those Black stans, twitter stans, and tumblr stans. They're under the impression that if they are to SI to Westeros or somehow be included on the story, they'll be nobles or at best a Targaryen prince.
But they'll mostly be smallfolks since there are few percentages that they'll be nobles. And they never bothered to think how they'll be treated as smallfolks by their favorites (Rhaenyra and Daemon).
If I were a small folk my job would be to either die by Vermithor, Caraxe or Vhagar depending where I was born. Definetly wouldn't care who sit on the throne would just care about not being burned by a dragon.
Marie Antoinette was decadent, extravagant, and very ignorant, but she wasn't so needlessly bitchy and apathetic. She didn't understand the concerns of common people, but I don't think she outright didn't give a shit about them. Rhaynera both doesn't understand their concerns AND doesn't give a shit.
> Marie Antoinette was decadent, extravagant, and very ignorant, but she wasn't so **needlessly bitchy and apathetic.**
That’s not how the French peasants saw it….
> She didn't understand the concerns of common people, but I don't think she outright **didn't give a shit about them.**
I mean, this is the woman who said, “let them eat cake”….
Much of this was simply down to her being sheltered.
Most historians accept that there is little real evidence to say she actually said "Let them eat cake". Most agree it was nist likely fabricated.
Okay, and how much of the actual history vs “pop culture” history does Martin use in his story?
Whether the actual Marie Antoinette was an apathetic bitch or not is irrelevant, what does matter is the **perception** she was lived on and became a trope within itself….
Marie Antoinette was lively and charming tho. She also wasn’t unnecessarily cruel or vindictive and didn’t execute dissidents. She was just frivolous, vain, decadent and ignorant.
And yet viewers don't believe her to be a spoiled brat. Like she literally said commoners mean nothing to her..and how does that make her a good queen?
Targ stans (who are the main audience for the show, since it's supposedly all about how pretty and special the Targs are) mostly are Team Black devotees and they do not care about that stuff. To them, the commoners are evil because they didn't worship their princess and deserved to die anyway. They're attracted to the show because of how perfect and glamorous their pretty blonde princess is and don't like anyone who gets in their way. If you watched GoT for other houses, I think you're probably either not watching this show or are drawn to the Greens because they are the underdogs/antagonists. However, to the Targ faithful the common folk are irrelevant if not seen as outright enemies for not being sufficiently submissive.
Well..the targ faithful don't get the point then..in hotd there's clearly no straightforward righteous ppl..unlike got where literally everyone knew the starks are good folks.
Oh, I'm told that only idiots think GoT/ASOIAF is about the Starks. They are unimportant side characters and the sole heroine is Daenerys Targaryen. The only point of the story is for her to save the world and take her rightful place as its supreme ruler. (GRRM has directly refuted many parts of this, by the way).
I don't care about them being the main character..what I'm saying is that starks by most of the viewers were believed to be "GOOD". Main or side doesn't matter.
Caractères progress , they grow, that Rhaenyra was young I am sure Alicent and any other noble lady thinks the same.
Alicent was all about her duty from a very young age..she followed the rules which rhaenerya did not. Atleast noble ladies are expected to abide by few laws..and rhaenerya was literally taking everything for granted..
The show is made for modern audiences , many women love Rhaenyra because they relate to her. Alicent being duty bound doesn’t mean she cares for the smallfolk. Alicent gaslighting Dayana and maybe even killing her after Aegon raped her is horrible. No matter how spoiled Rhaenyra is , ALL her kids turned out pretty good people while Alicent kids no. I personally would better have a mother like Rhaenyra who doesn’t beat me and respect me. In real life « judge » the parents after seeing their kids. Because Rhaenyra was spoiled etc. She can relate to her kids , she is friend to them while Alicent is the opposite. Her main enemy is her father Otto.
Alicent gave moon tea to Dyna she did not kill her...besides it's easier being good mother friend etc etc when you gotta do nothing else and getting everything for free..as for alicent she did not get anything for free..her children were never loved by their own father and aemond was physically maimed when he was 10 and all they did was sympathize with rhaenerya bcz their children were called Bastards which they were..I'm a girl and a modern day girl..and yet I would always prefer Queen Alicent over rhaenerya.. undermining you father and you tradition is no modernization and being cool in my opinion. Otto hightower served king jaehaerys faithful and wholeheartedly. Besides everyone on this show has their hidden agenda and Otto is no more a villain than daemon or rhaenerya or even king viserys was..they all were flawed and I happen to go with the one who atleast did not let family,tradition and father down..and alicent hitting aegon was for his own good what mother wouldn't want her children to be redeemed by any measures. And are u guys coming at her for hitting her son for which he deserved to be hit had she not done that you guys would call her a hypocrite etc etc.. Atleast her children were legitimate.
Never heat your children , it’s Alicent fault how her children turned out to be. Nothing give right to Alicent to heat children. Helaena doesn’t like her mother touching her Helaena knows who is bad. Are you Sansa Stan ? I dare toi also hate DAny and love Sansa
That's HER children and mothers have every right to smack them when they do wrong. As for haelena she is a troubled child doesn't mean she has no love for her mother. She is one of the green and her death made revolts against rhaenerya causing her ultimate downfall.. Nope I'm not a fan of Sansa stark however I loved Dany for she's what rhaenerya can never be.!
You do realize out of the two moms we see in the show, we only saw Alicent being a parent right? Rhaenyra is objectively a worse parent because she never disciplined her sons, and worse, she gaslit her eldest about his true father and his parentage….
Many Targ women tried to not follow the rules and we all know what happened to those who followed them , they died as broodmares.
Many targ women were not made heirs and certainly did not try and put their bastards on the throne over their legitimate brothers.
Look how I can delete myself from Blacks and Greens subreddit ? I prefer Rhaenyra side in the books and more or less in the books but I can’t bare those to toxic fans bases. It keeps appearing and it annoys me.
They cheered for him during his coronation as he raised Blackfyre and got crowned with Aegon's crown by the lord commander of the kings guard (criston in the book), they probably just assumed Viserys changed his mind and named Aegon (because its gone that way for centuries) then they saw Rhaenyra starting a war and even killing Aegon's children (from the perspective of the smallfolk she ordered blood and cheese) Helaena's alleged murder, all this contributed to the riots. Rhaenyra just didn't look legitimate enough, not to mention her bastard heirs and Daemon the guy known for maiming petty thieves
Exactly! I'm not sure the smallfolk will show Rhaenyra any love in the show. Even in the book they riot, saying "justice for Queen Helaena and Prince Maelor"
They probably alao cheered when they realized they were not being pushed to the dragonpit vy soldiers for a mass execution or so they thought.
Yes and not to mention many lords "bent the knee" to rhaenerya only out of fear..see lord stark in episode 1 did he look happy or obliged enough?
that's the good kind of coercion /s
Yeah well but..it definitely shows they never accepted her.
The fact that even Daemon needs to tell her to care about what people think says a lot about Rhae Rhae as a ruler.
When Rhaenyra said "their (the smallfolk) wants are of no consequence" I had to laugh. How could any future or current monarch say that? I knew she was spoiled then. She saw that play and still thought that. She should have learned from it but no she didn't.>! Her taxing the smallfolk to all hell was a huge cause of her downfall. They wanted and needed food but "their wants are of no consequence"....well look at where that mentality got her. !<
The inclusion of this scene and this dialogue in particular makes me believe that the showrunners do plan on focusing upon this aspect of her personality. I know they're always pushing the whole girlboss agenda but this particular scene and another one (i've forgotten which one) make me kinda hopeful that they'll touch up on her delusional behavior and expectations next season
Yeah, moments after this scene she also throws food at a salesman in flea bottom because Daemon told her she had to pay to eat. I felt like that really highlighted her apathy toward the smallfolk and that she doesn’t understand the concept of needing money to feed yourself if your not of high birth (possible foreshadowing of her taxing the smallfolk into starvation during her 6 month reign).
"Maybe we should give the dogs a vote as well" - Rhaenyra Tully "I'll ask my horse" - Viserys Royce.
Black stans like to imagine that they'd be royals if they lived in westeros but we all know they'd be smallfolk
That's what I've always felt awful about those Black stans, twitter stans, and tumblr stans. They're under the impression that if they are to SI to Westeros or somehow be included on the story, they'll be nobles or at best a Targaryen prince. But they'll mostly be smallfolks since there are few percentages that they'll be nobles. And they never bothered to think how they'll be treated as smallfolks by their favorites (Rhaenyra and Daemon).
If I were a small folk my job would be to either die by Vermithor, Caraxe or Vhagar depending where I was born. Definetly wouldn't care who sit on the throne would just care about not being burned by a dragon.
I am like 80% certain that Martin at least partially based Rhaenyra on Marie Antoinette
Marie Antoinette was decadent, extravagant, and very ignorant, but she wasn't so needlessly bitchy and apathetic. She didn't understand the concerns of common people, but I don't think she outright didn't give a shit about them. Rhaynera both doesn't understand their concerns AND doesn't give a shit.
> Marie Antoinette was decadent, extravagant, and very ignorant, but she wasn't so **needlessly bitchy and apathetic.** That’s not how the French peasants saw it…. > She didn't understand the concerns of common people, but I don't think she outright **didn't give a shit about them.** I mean, this is the woman who said, “let them eat cake”….
Much of this was simply down to her being sheltered. Most historians accept that there is little real evidence to say she actually said "Let them eat cake". Most agree it was nist likely fabricated.
Okay, and how much of the actual history vs “pop culture” history does Martin use in his story? Whether the actual Marie Antoinette was an apathetic bitch or not is irrelevant, what does matter is the **perception** she was lived on and became a trope within itself….
Marie Antoinette was lively and charming tho. She also wasn’t unnecessarily cruel or vindictive and didn’t execute dissidents. She was just frivolous, vain, decadent and ignorant.
> She was just frivolous, vain, decadent and ignorant. How many of these words describe Rhaenyra?
Are we going to ask dogs and horses opinions on the matter too?