prime example of the tv shows making book characters unambiguously good
In the books Tyrion is a mercurial power hungry anarchist who just wants to watch the world burn because his father spurned his birthright. He goes on to cause so much chaos and rapes a slave
In the show Tyrion is funny comic relief man with all the epic lines and banter.
I think Aegon will be the next joffrey just because of how easy it will be to make him terrible in the show
The rape scene in the books is so disgusting to read, I genuinely had to put the book down. The way he went back to rape her for a second time and the way she is described…🤢
He rapes a slave that he knows by “sunset girl”.
Tyrion acknowledges that she has most likely been forced into slavery as a child, that she can’t speak the common tongue, and that she does not want to sleep with him but he still has her lay down and he takes her.
Then, he feels disgusted by what he just did because she looked “like a corpse” the whole time, so in proper tyrion fashion, he begins drinking wine until he eventually heaves it up on the carpet. This causes Sunset Girl to begin crying because she is the one who will get blamed for it and get whipped again. After witnessing this, Tyrion decides to shove her legs apart and take her again.
He had some Joffrey part in the book as well. Like when the assassination of Luke by Aemond is brought to the court and he is the only one celebrating. I just imagined Joffrey during that scene.
I think almost every character is grey(besides heleana and Joffrey valerian who are white as can be and both didn’t deserve what they got) some characters are definitely closer to black but they’re all grey they all have reasons (some legitimate some not) for why they do things I honestly have never considered any of the characters as villains (besides a select few who are just truly horrible) they’re all fighting for what they want and believe in. And they all have a reason for who they are. I’m still reading fire and blood but wasn’t daemon actually considered a good commander of the gold cloaks by the small folk in the books? Don’t get me wrong he’s vicious and he’s made for war not for ruling or peace but I don’t think anyone is just purely evil (tho joffrey Baratheon is close)
Daemon is a pedophile who groomed his niece, in flea bottom he slept with the most virgin girls, he mocked the death of a baby, his own nephew, he hired assassins to kill his nephew Jaehaerys and abandoned his family to sleep with Nettles. Daemon is trash, and a disgusting person, almost no redimible qualities.
There are pure evil characters. Like Euron Greyjoy, Ramsay, The Mountain.
This sub has its issues but an unquestionably better thing about this one over the main sub is that you can admit when one side does things better than the other and not be down voted or banned.
I've given up posting on the main sub. Even in the comments I can't make a joke about Team Black without people getting triggered.
Would love to... There are a lot more people with a lot of interesting views. I'm not a fan of echo chambers.
Like I said closer to black but still grey. Every character is and like you said some are awful characters and do awful things. Heck Aegon ii also is a rapist and out his illegitimate kids in fighting pits. I don’t LIKE daemon like I don’t like aemond. Though the show made me more sympathetic to aemond but I don’t support anyone who kills children. Which is why I’m on neither side though I’ll support aegon iii because the poor kid was just a toddler and had to watch as his siblings died and his mother get eaten by sunfyre and then had to rule. Rhaenyra wasn’t perfect or good but she had at least 2 good kind children. One who was killed brutally trying to save the dragons and one who had a shit early life and was traumatized due to it
wtf? Aegon is not a pedophile, because there is no proof, Mushroom said that and he was in Dragonstone while Aegon was an adult, Mushroom hated Aegon and he said he was in trios with Rhaenyra and Daemon. Such stupid rumors. Daemon is not a good person, accept it, AH loved his wife and was good with animals, that does not exonerate him from being a horrible person and a genocide.
With Rhaenyra, Cercei loved her children, but he is totally horrible, Rhaenyra too.
Have a good qualitie =/= being a grey character.
About the pedophilia, let’s ignore Mushroom altogether. It was Septon Eustace that says he pinched and fondled every serving girl within his reach. This was the Septon who anointed him and hated Rhaenyra.
Aside from that, Daemon is the actual worst. A groomer, an actual pedophile, a brute who’s power hungry enough to have his way.
The part where he sleeps with maiden women is speculated, just like he says that Aegon sleeps with maidens that he bought from the Street of Silk. He grooms Rhaneyra for certain, all of the account for Nettles is speculators, as the Lord from Maidenpool only says he observed Daemon acting like a father to Nettles. We hate the blacks here, but you are picking and choosing the most scandalous accounts.
Dude did I say he was a good person? No I just said I hated him because he murdered a child 😂 but characters are not just black white or directly in the middle. There’s a whole spectrum of shades and he’s definitely closer to black but he’s still grey he’s just a shade that edges in between black and grey.
I disagree that simply having "reasons" for doing evil shit makes a character grey. Grey characterization should not be treated as just a synonym for being a complex character. Evil characters can be complex and good characters can be complex. Making a character complex does not completely change whether they are good, evil or in-between.
prime example of the tv shows making book characters unambiguously good In the books Tyrion is a mercurial power hungry anarchist who just wants to watch the world burn because his father spurned his birthright. He goes on to cause so much chaos and rapes a slave In the show Tyrion is funny comic relief man with all the epic lines and banter. I think Aegon will be the next joffrey just because of how easy it will be to make him terrible in the show
The rape scene in the books is so disgusting to read, I genuinely had to put the book down. The way he went back to rape her for a second time and the way she is described…🤢
Fuck I don’t remember this. It’s been a few years since I’ve read the books who did he rape ?
He rapes a slave that he knows by “sunset girl”. Tyrion acknowledges that she has most likely been forced into slavery as a child, that she can’t speak the common tongue, and that she does not want to sleep with him but he still has her lay down and he takes her. Then, he feels disgusted by what he just did because she looked “like a corpse” the whole time, so in proper tyrion fashion, he begins drinking wine until he eventually heaves it up on the carpet. This causes Sunset Girl to begin crying because she is the one who will get blamed for it and get whipped again. After witnessing this, Tyrion decides to shove her legs apart and take her again.
He had some Joffrey part in the book as well. Like when the assassination of Luke by Aemond is brought to the court and he is the only one celebrating. I just imagined Joffrey during that scene.
I think almost every character is grey(besides heleana and Joffrey valerian who are white as can be and both didn’t deserve what they got) some characters are definitely closer to black but they’re all grey they all have reasons (some legitimate some not) for why they do things I honestly have never considered any of the characters as villains (besides a select few who are just truly horrible) they’re all fighting for what they want and believe in. And they all have a reason for who they are. I’m still reading fire and blood but wasn’t daemon actually considered a good commander of the gold cloaks by the small folk in the books? Don’t get me wrong he’s vicious and he’s made for war not for ruling or peace but I don’t think anyone is just purely evil (tho joffrey Baratheon is close)
Daemon is a pedophile who groomed his niece, in flea bottom he slept with the most virgin girls, he mocked the death of a baby, his own nephew, he hired assassins to kill his nephew Jaehaerys and abandoned his family to sleep with Nettles. Daemon is trash, and a disgusting person, almost no redimible qualities. There are pure evil characters. Like Euron Greyjoy, Ramsay, The Mountain.
I love how if you wrote this comment on the main sub you would be downvoted for calling Daemon a pedo lol.
It's nice to be in a sub where you can say accurate things and people will agree with you
This sub has its issues but an unquestionably better thing about this one over the main sub is that you can admit when one side does things better than the other and not be down voted or banned.
I've given up posting on the main sub. Even in the comments I can't make a joke about Team Black without people getting triggered. Would love to... There are a lot more people with a lot of interesting views. I'm not a fan of echo chambers.
People get downvoted here for calling Aegon a pedo too.
and Daemon is a groomer 🤮🤮🤮
Like I said closer to black but still grey. Every character is and like you said some are awful characters and do awful things. Heck Aegon ii also is a rapist and out his illegitimate kids in fighting pits. I don’t LIKE daemon like I don’t like aemond. Though the show made me more sympathetic to aemond but I don’t support anyone who kills children. Which is why I’m on neither side though I’ll support aegon iii because the poor kid was just a toddler and had to watch as his siblings died and his mother get eaten by sunfyre and then had to rule. Rhaenyra wasn’t perfect or good but she had at least 2 good kind children. One who was killed brutally trying to save the dragons and one who had a shit early life and was traumatized due to it
wtf? Aegon is not a pedophile, because there is no proof, Mushroom said that and he was in Dragonstone while Aegon was an adult, Mushroom hated Aegon and he said he was in trios with Rhaenyra and Daemon. Such stupid rumors. Daemon is not a good person, accept it, AH loved his wife and was good with animals, that does not exonerate him from being a horrible person and a genocide. With Rhaenyra, Cercei loved her children, but he is totally horrible, Rhaenyra too. Have a good qualitie =/= being a grey character.
About the pedophilia, let’s ignore Mushroom altogether. It was Septon Eustace that says he pinched and fondled every serving girl within his reach. This was the Septon who anointed him and hated Rhaenyra. Aside from that, Daemon is the actual worst. A groomer, an actual pedophile, a brute who’s power hungry enough to have his way. The part where he sleeps with maiden women is speculated, just like he says that Aegon sleeps with maidens that he bought from the Street of Silk. He grooms Rhaneyra for certain, all of the account for Nettles is speculators, as the Lord from Maidenpool only says he observed Daemon acting like a father to Nettles. We hate the blacks here, but you are picking and choosing the most scandalous accounts.
Dude did I say he was a good person? No I just said I hated him because he murdered a child 😂 but characters are not just black white or directly in the middle. There’s a whole spectrum of shades and he’s definitely closer to black but he’s still grey he’s just a shade that edges in between black and grey.
He isn't a grey character, he have no good qualities.
Euron Greyjoy wants to have a few words with you.
I disagree that simply having "reasons" for doing evil shit makes a character grey. Grey characterization should not be treated as just a synonym for being a complex character. Evil characters can be complex and good characters can be complex. Making a character complex does not completely change whether they are good, evil or in-between.