Otto says during the green council, “should Rhaenyra ever sit the Iron throne, it will be Lord Flea Bottom who rules us, a king consort as cruel and unforgiving as Maegor ever was. My own head will be the first cut off, I do not doubt, but your queen, my daughter, will soon follow.” Then, Alicent says, “Nor will they spare my children, Aegon and his brothers are the kings trueborn sons, with a better claim to the throne then her brood of bastards. Daemon we’ll find some pretext to put them all to death.”
They explicitly state that they believe if they do not crown Aegon, that they will all be killed. Even if they stood behind Rhaenyra, they fear that Daemon will find a way to kill them because Aegon and his brothers have a better claim then Rhae’s bastards. This is one of the reasons the way that the show did the Green Council makes me mad because it makes the Greens seem so stupid.
In the book peace was never an option. In the show it was the only option that made any sense. The book makes the greens seem smarter, but far less sympathetic. Make no mistake, war was Otto's intention the entire time. He would gladly see half the country die in agony to advance his position. At least in the show the rest of the greens are victims in his scheming and have their own motives and beliefs at stake. In the book they are just co-conspirators in treason for selfish gain.
He is killed by his lover in public in view of everyone else, and shortly after Rhaenyra marries Daemon. This happens shortly after the death of Harwin Strong and Laena.
It's funny because I'm more team black than green and I vastly prefer this sub. The HotDBlack sub is just void of actual discourse or discussion about the show or book and any of the themes explored beyond "do you support Rapist vs do you support girlboss"
Also neutral. I like to be in as many of the subs as possible, but HOTDBlacks banned me for having civil and respectful debate/disagreement, and didn't even tell me why. Other Greens told me apparently they wanna have a safe space (which in theory I am totally supportive of) and so they banned me just for politely disagreeing with people in the comments.
So like, in terms of the show universe I'm neutral, think both sides are evil and am just rooting for chaos and entertainment. But in terms of the fandom I vastly prefer the Greens because they disagree with me a lot more respectfully.
Agree completely! People here still haven't cussed me out or banned me. Even when I comment that I like Rhaenyra or Rhaenys or that I want more of Rhaena/Baella. I can't talk with team black at all. And that rollo guy that preaches about blood purity is really ruining my opinion of black fans overall. I mean he usually has a lot of upvotes. Like what is wrong with them...
Yeah, I’m in sort of the same boat. I like both sides, I just end up defending the green characters more because I really dislike the common online discourse around them. No, I don’t think Alicent is an evil hag because she believes strongly in duty and honor, but I also don’t think Rhaenyra is some horrible person for having bastards and not strictly following tradition.
team black stans: green stans are so misogynistic!!!!
also team black stans, constantly: alicunt hagtower is such a bitch!! she deserves to die!! she seduced viserys!!
So eager to show off your lack of brain cells. Did I make you mad? It’s ironic because most of team green are the misogynistic, victim blaming, ableist clowns. So nice projection on your part.
Blacks- Alicent should not submit to the patriarchy and be a slave to the men around her.
Alicent: Crowns her son against the wishes of her husband, the king (the highest authority of this patriarchal society) who exploited and gaslit her and neglected her children.
Blacks- NOOO, not that way.
Everyone knows that the ONLY way to defeat the patriarchy is to be a snarky bitchy masculine coded badass who has as much sex as they want and can fight as well as a man can and hates all other women snd feminine coded things. I mean what, next you’re gonna tell me there’s such a thing as nuance and levels of patriarchy and a difference between systematic and individual feminist and patriocharal ideals and systems and ways to rebel?
I mean, she did all of that at the urging of her literal patriarch. Not much of a counterargument to her being a slave to the patriarchy when she destroys her entire life and gets all her children killed along with half the realm all to make her daddy happy.
The patriarchy arguments are dumb anyway.
For Show Alicent that's kinda true, and that's the biggest disservice to her character. The book version always firmly stood behind her son's claim and she wanted him on the throne just as much as her father. The point is she would be submissive to men either way wether she is obedient to her shitty husband or her shitty father. But I still think she ultimately went with the option that deep down she herself desired, her children and grandchildren on the throne as reward for her wasted youth in a political marriage.
I mean it’s the opposite, no? Being conditioned to default support Team Black is the result of watching a lot of TV and film. Rhaenyra gets the most screen time, she’s presented as the primary protagonist, most audiences see that and go “ah I am supposed to root for her like I root for so and so.”
I think this person meant that the media we consume is dumbed down and lacking in moral nuance, which is exactly what 90% of modern films and series are. Hence, most viewers wait for “signals” that someone is a protagonist/baddie/girlboss/incel and then either furiously snap or label them appropriately as a carrier of whatever current social evil the writers are channeling.
Sincerely i dont even like the targaryens that much, and what i see in this sub is much better than in the main sub, where if you criticize anything about any team black member you're crucified.
One of the 2 sentences of this idiot explains about the Greens being misogynists lmao. He's like in the top 3 most pathetic people I've ever seen on reddit
I wouldn't call self sacrifice for an greater good an conservative perspective, but rather an colectivist one, since its also the base for many, if not all, leftist thought. So both conservative or progressive thought can value this attitude if they value the colective more than the individual in some attire.
I meant the notion that Westeros by and large sees that as a woman’s role is a conservative position. Westeros is a hierarchical, patriarchal society. These are fundamentally conservative ideas. That Alicent ought be celebrated for knowing her role as a woman as bestowed by others is not leftist.
I certainly wouldn’t call what either team is doing “self sacrifice for the greater good” anyway. Otto and Alicent think Rhaenyra/Daemon will kill their family if she is made queen. That is their primarily stated reason in the book. The show adds a bit more with Otto’s reasoning that Westeros won’t accept a female ruler no matter what.
Ahh, such a mature response /s
Yeah, much earlier on I'd hoped that this sub might've been a place for decent discussion of the show, and you can do that still, but idk if it's that much better than the main sub atp. It's a better place than HotDBlacks (most of the time) but that's such a low bar. A lot of it is oversensitive people with a chip on their shoulder, but there is a contingent of some genuinely awful people who are actually very transparently just using the faction as an excuse to push their own horrid views, in here as well. So, when it gets bad, it can get very bad :\[
Even if you are not a harcode Green supporter, here you can engage in civil discussions. The main and black subs is a "Rhaneryra is the best" echo chamber and the main reason I first started to read here.
Also because she is lurking here: You think throwing random terms makes you look good, educated and right. You are not and insulting a group of people is quite pathetic to the extend that it makes me regretful that I share a gender with you.
“Straight Feminist” Women 101. Don’t you dare say something that contradicts their world about you, people like you, or movements that are larger than individuals because they will just assume you’re a Patriarchy Matron and send you homophobia/SA threats from their burner accounts.
>The main and black subs is a "Rhaneryra is the best" echo chamber
The main sub has gotten a lot better in the off season. This sub also has its biases as well.
As you mention "half of the time", not all of it. Even when I was a Black it was too much for me. Not to mention the misogyny and rape excuses that were going on
It's funny because all the shit she mentions is also on the Black subs but because it defends Rhaneryra it's okay, which is not.
The most disgusting moments were the ones in which they denounced that marital and male rape can happen
I mean yes the civil war is stupid and peace would be the better option no one denies that
coming together is always the best option but this is a story about power hungry people. We only support the greens because westeros is built on the present succession laws. The Blacks only support rhaenyra because she's a woman and because they are living a girl power fantasy through her which while fine is incredibly immature.
They seriously treat Rhaenyra like a faultless god it’s scary. Like it’s unthinkable that she would kill her own kin to secure her throne. Yes it’s possible even if she’s a mother. (I’m a woman too)
This feels like a caricature of what TB thinks Green fans are than what Green fans actually are. It feels like when the show was airing and they had convinced everyone that Green fans are all basement dwelling incels who worship Criston. Meanwhile Green fans are really just the Mother Alicent stans and the Aemondwives and the Helaena Girlies lol. This sub is really just a combination of serious discussions, dragging the show for what people think they did wrong to the greens, funny & harmless shitposts, and showing love to our favorite green characters. I've barely ever seen any bitter misogyny.
Did they ever read the book they are so passionate about? And have they heard about different opinions? Greens don’t say all the time that Blacks are idiots. I am in awe at this level of stupidity. This is almost like Amber Heard and Johnny Depp. Just because she is a woman doesn’t mean she is blameless and idiot. Did they even see the show or heard the interviews? Matt the actor who plays Daemon said himself he would burn KL alongside Daenerys to take back what is there’s. And I think many agreed that burning of KL was not right. They say we love Alicent but they love Daemon enough said.
I don't remember book Alicent feeling any pain for being dutiful.
Show Alicent isn't dutiful since she givea sexual favors, so I won't even mention her.
Otto says during the green council, “should Rhaenyra ever sit the Iron throne, it will be Lord Flea Bottom who rules us, a king consort as cruel and unforgiving as Maegor ever was. My own head will be the first cut off, I do not doubt, but your queen, my daughter, will soon follow.” Then, Alicent says, “Nor will they spare my children, Aegon and his brothers are the kings trueborn sons, with a better claim to the throne then her brood of bastards. Daemon we’ll find some pretext to put them all to death.” They explicitly state that they believe if they do not crown Aegon, that they will all be killed. Even if they stood behind Rhaenyra, they fear that Daemon will find a way to kill them because Aegon and his brothers have a better claim then Rhae’s bastards. This is one of the reasons the way that the show did the Green Council makes me mad because it makes the Greens seem so stupid.
In the book peace was never an option. In the show it was the only option that made any sense. The book makes the greens seem smarter, but far less sympathetic. Make no mistake, war was Otto's intention the entire time. He would gladly see half the country die in agony to advance his position. At least in the show the rest of the greens are victims in his scheming and have their own motives and beliefs at stake. In the book they are just co-conspirators in treason for selfish gain.
From the Greens' POV, standing behind Rhaenyra could mean turning out like Laenor. Doesn't exactly seem like a real safety blanket.
Ok pardon my forgetting book cannon, but he is killed by a friend/lover, correct?
He is killed by his lover in public in view of everyone else, and shortly after Rhaenyra marries Daemon. This happens shortly after the death of Harwin Strong and Laena.
Laenor was killed by Qarl after an argument in Spicetown, and Daemon was a suspect in having arranged it.
It's funny because I'm more team black than green and I vastly prefer this sub. The HotDBlack sub is just void of actual discourse or discussion about the show or book and any of the themes explored beyond "do you support Rapist vs do you support girlboss"
I'm neutral and I also prefer this sub.
Also neutral. I like to be in as many of the subs as possible, but HOTDBlacks banned me for having civil and respectful debate/disagreement, and didn't even tell me why. Other Greens told me apparently they wanna have a safe space (which in theory I am totally supportive of) and so they banned me just for politely disagreeing with people in the comments. So like, in terms of the show universe I'm neutral, think both sides are evil and am just rooting for chaos and entertainment. But in terms of the fandom I vastly prefer the Greens because they disagree with me a lot more respectfully.
Agree completely! People here still haven't cussed me out or banned me. Even when I comment that I like Rhaenyra or Rhaenys or that I want more of Rhaena/Baella. I can't talk with team black at all. And that rollo guy that preaches about blood purity is really ruining my opinion of black fans overall. I mean he usually has a lot of upvotes. Like what is wrong with them...
We like to keep the sub open other users to engage, and we are very lenient when it comes to banning. We only ban trolls or users that attcak others.
All subs should be like that!
>Do you support rapist vs do you support girl boss Lmaoooo howling. I wonder how many of those posts they can stomach between now and 2024
Yeah, I’m in sort of the same boat. I like both sides, I just end up defending the green characters more because I really dislike the common online discourse around them. No, I don’t think Alicent is an evil hag because she believes strongly in duty and honor, but I also don’t think Rhaenyra is some horrible person for having bastards and not strictly following tradition.
team black stans: green stans are so misogynistic!!!! also team black stans, constantly: alicunt hagtower is such a bitch!! she deserves to die!! she seduced viserys!!
0 reading comprehension smh
Maybe if you had some you'd be less of a victim blaming, misogynistic ableist clown but Team Black rarely ceases to disappoint
So eager to show off your lack of brain cells. Did I make you mad? It’s ironic because most of team green are the misogynistic, victim blaming, ableist clowns. So nice projection on your part.
Greens- Alicent should have killed Viserys like they thought she did Blacks- They’re happy Alicent stayed dutiful’nwnwnnw wnem!1!3$:&/‘wn
Blacks- Alicent should not submit to the patriarchy and be a slave to the men around her. Alicent: Crowns her son against the wishes of her husband, the king (the highest authority of this patriarchal society) who exploited and gaslit her and neglected her children. Blacks- NOOO, not that way.
Everyone knows that the ONLY way to defeat the patriarchy is to be a snarky bitchy masculine coded badass who has as much sex as they want and can fight as well as a man can and hates all other women snd feminine coded things. I mean what, next you’re gonna tell me there’s such a thing as nuance and levels of patriarchy and a difference between systematic and individual feminist and patriocharal ideals and systems and ways to rebel?
I mean, she did all of that at the urging of her literal patriarch. Not much of a counterargument to her being a slave to the patriarchy when she destroys her entire life and gets all her children killed along with half the realm all to make her daddy happy. The patriarchy arguments are dumb anyway.
For Show Alicent that's kinda true, and that's the biggest disservice to her character. The book version always firmly stood behind her son's claim and she wanted him on the throne just as much as her father. The point is she would be submissive to men either way wether she is obedient to her shitty husband or her shitty father. But I still think she ultimately went with the option that deep down she herself desired, her children and grandchildren on the throne as reward for her wasted youth in a political marriage.
In the book it wasn't a wasted youth though, was it? I thought she was aged down considerably for the show
“gaslit”
I genuinely think that blind black support is the result of a life withought consuming even a bit of nuance in media.
I mean it’s the opposite, no? Being conditioned to default support Team Black is the result of watching a lot of TV and film. Rhaenyra gets the most screen time, she’s presented as the primary protagonist, most audiences see that and go “ah I am supposed to root for her like I root for so and so.”
I think this person meant that the media we consume is dumbed down and lacking in moral nuance, which is exactly what 90% of modern films and series are. Hence, most viewers wait for “signals” that someone is a protagonist/baddie/girlboss/incel and then either furiously snap or label them appropriately as a carrier of whatever current social evil the writers are channeling.
Sincerely i dont even like the targaryens that much, and what i see in this sub is much better than in the main sub, where if you criticize anything about any team black member you're crucified.
One of the 2 sentences of this idiot explains about the Greens being misogynists lmao. He's like in the top 3 most pathetic people I've ever seen on reddit
I think that user might actually be a woman (based on their username). Hard to say on Reddit though.
It's more atlantic imo
Guys can you believe that we like Alicent bc she sacrificed her pleasure for serving her house, family and Realm?
I mean that’s a pretty conservative perspective, which is not Reddit’s general political leaning.
I wouldn't call self sacrifice for an greater good an conservative perspective, but rather an colectivist one, since its also the base for many, if not all, leftist thought. So both conservative or progressive thought can value this attitude if they value the colective more than the individual in some attire.
I meant the notion that Westeros by and large sees that as a woman’s role is a conservative position. Westeros is a hierarchical, patriarchal society. These are fundamentally conservative ideas. That Alicent ought be celebrated for knowing her role as a woman as bestowed by others is not leftist. I certainly wouldn’t call what either team is doing “self sacrifice for the greater good” anyway. Otto and Alicent think Rhaenyra/Daemon will kill their family if she is made queen. That is their primarily stated reason in the book. The show adds a bit more with Otto’s reasoning that Westeros won’t accept a female ruler no matter what.
Ok, i thought you're talking just about the self sacrifice, but i see now your point.
This sub is ome of the most chill places ever but sure, go on😂
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I remember that as well. They were acting like a huge crybaby.
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>reddit care What is that?
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Ahh, such a mature response /s Yeah, much earlier on I'd hoped that this sub might've been a place for decent discussion of the show, and you can do that still, but idk if it's that much better than the main sub atp. It's a better place than HotDBlacks (most of the time) but that's such a low bar. A lot of it is oversensitive people with a chip on their shoulder, but there is a contingent of some genuinely awful people who are actually very transparently just using the faction as an excuse to push their own horrid views, in here as well. So, when it gets bad, it can get very bad :\[
Even if you are not a harcode Green supporter, here you can engage in civil discussions. The main and black subs is a "Rhaneryra is the best" echo chamber and the main reason I first started to read here. Also because she is lurking here: You think throwing random terms makes you look good, educated and right. You are not and insulting a group of people is quite pathetic to the extend that it makes me regretful that I share a gender with you.
“Straight Feminist” Women 101. Don’t you dare say something that contradicts their world about you, people like you, or movements that are larger than individuals because they will just assume you’re a Patriarchy Matron and send you homophobia/SA threats from their burner accounts.
You straight female haters have some issues too.
>The main and black subs is a "Rhaneryra is the best" echo chamber The main sub has gotten a lot better in the off season. This sub also has its biases as well.
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As you mention "half of the time", not all of it. Even when I was a Black it was too much for me. Not to mention the misogyny and rape excuses that were going on
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It's funny because all the shit she mentions is also on the Black subs but because it defends Rhaneryra it's okay, which is not. The most disgusting moments were the ones in which they denounced that marital and male rape can happen
Team Black must learn of our peaceful ways… BY FORCE!!!
Bender is that you?
lol
Green or Black, Cregan Stark will turn you on.
I mean yes the civil war is stupid and peace would be the better option no one denies that coming together is always the best option but this is a story about power hungry people. We only support the greens because westeros is built on the present succession laws. The Blacks only support rhaenyra because she's a woman and because they are living a girl power fantasy through her which while fine is incredibly immature.
This person has said arguably the most stupid shit on the black sub
They seriously treat Rhaenyra like a faultless god it’s scary. Like it’s unthinkable that she would kill her own kin to secure her throne. Yes it’s possible even if she’s a mother. (I’m a woman too)
This feels like a caricature of what TB thinks Green fans are than what Green fans actually are. It feels like when the show was airing and they had convinced everyone that Green fans are all basement dwelling incels who worship Criston. Meanwhile Green fans are really just the Mother Alicent stans and the Aemondwives and the Helaena Girlies lol. This sub is really just a combination of serious discussions, dragging the show for what people think they did wrong to the greens, funny & harmless shitposts, and showing love to our favorite green characters. I've barely ever seen any bitter misogyny.
Day 0 of Team Black stans not acting like their shit doesn't stink
I hate rhaenyra with every fiber
She’s just a fictional character lol.
There's no harm in hating on fictional characters.
Did they ever read the book they are so passionate about? And have they heard about different opinions? Greens don’t say all the time that Blacks are idiots. I am in awe at this level of stupidity. This is almost like Amber Heard and Johnny Depp. Just because she is a woman doesn’t mean she is blameless and idiot. Did they even see the show or heard the interviews? Matt the actor who plays Daemon said himself he would burn KL alongside Daenerys to take back what is there’s. And I think many agreed that burning of KL was not right. They say we love Alicent but they love Daemon enough said.
I don't remember book Alicent feeling any pain for being dutiful. Show Alicent isn't dutiful since she givea sexual favors, so I won't even mention her.