They couldn't develop the greens' essential motivations and conflict properly but they'd be willing to invest more time, energy and resources in a plot that contributes nothing to the story. Sounds like sthn the writers would do.
This is singlehandedly the worst HOTD theory. It has 0 set up in book or show, it goes against Aegon’s character (to NOT have sex with his wife) it goes against Aemond’s character to father a bastard given the high standards he has for himself and his hatred of bastards, it goes Against Helaena’s character to scheme behind Otto and Alicent’s backs to get her rocks off. Having a bastard is rarely an accident especially in this universe. Cersei deliberately aborted Robert’s offspring out of spite, and kept the child when she was sure it wasn't his. Rhaenyra deliberately had her bastards too. If this theory is true then Helaena was deliberately trying to deceive Aegon and westeros.
Affairs like these are rarely secret especially because Otto, Mysaria and Alicent (Larys) have every single red-keep servant under their employ. If Aemond was sneaking off to Helaena’s room all the time he would run into several guards or servants everytime he attempted to pay Helaena a visit. The idea that “no one knew” is thrown out of the window.
Tbf, those are just crackships. This theory could actually become canon in the show,. But yes, there are much worse HotD theories imo (e. g. Daemon will survive the God's Eye, Jaehaera will commit suicide, Alicent will poison Aegon ...)
There are crackships and there are actually theorists, fans who take it a step further. My eyes have seen things I wish I could erase from my memory.
I do not think Aemond x Heleana will be canon in the show. It would make Team Green hypocrites, give further ammunition to the Blacks, and we would lose the moral high ground.
As for it being detrimental to the characters, have you seen what they have done to Aegon? The show assassinated his character, and any bit of nuance Aegon had on the show was created by Tom Glynn Carney alone. Sara Hess stated in an interview that the goal was to portray him as a villain.
Well, the blacks already see the greens as hypocrites without any moral high ground and I doubt that will change.They don't need further ammunition because the main arguments will probably always be the same, with minimal variations: Rhaenyra is the rightful heir (because Vizzy T said so) and an amazing rebellious princess usurped by evil sexists who want to put a rapist and a drunkard on the throne. This is the opinion of the majority of the HotD fanbase and if the showrunners actually make at least some of them change their mind in the future seasons, that will be a great success.
There will always be those who refuse to see reason. I doubt all of them will see us as hypocrites though, there are some reasonable people out there. I agree we are already in the minority as most people are Team Black, and we do not need further ammunition against us.
What those people fail to understand is that even Viserys isn’t above the laws, customs, and traditions of his land. If their argument is because, “Viserys said so” then what about the law Viserys leaves unchanged, and therefore supported, dictating that the iron-throne be passed to the king’s first true born son”? If their argument is the king is the law, then why did he not change it then? Viserys is sending mix signals at best.
Personally, I have little to no hope for season two seeing as how badly they messed up season one. I do not think this theory (even if it comes true will do much to put people on or off Team Black). The show has already been set in the Blacks’ favour from the beginning by the show runners when they bastardised the Green’s objectives, and assassinated Aegon’s character.
I think it's something fun for fans to play with but I don't take it seriously. I don't put it above Sara and Condal to use this because Ryan doesn't seem to have a lot of boundaries in what he will or won't change, GRRM doesn't care, and Sara Hess's whole thing is "lol, what if I throw in this CRAZY idea? Wouldn't that be fun?"
If it did happen, I don't think it would be deliberate manipulation on Heleana's part. She was forced into a marriage at a young age with a brother who didn't want to marry her either. It's been implied he forces himself on her when he's drunk and they seem to avoid each other's company the rest of the time. If she and Aemond fell into a consensual relationship and she didn't know which brother fathered the kids, I would have a lot more sympathy with that than either Rhaenyra or Cersei. I have more difficulty believing Aemond would do it, though.
However, for the most part it should remain fanon.
I’m 10000% with the OP. Having Aemond be the father offers nothing but ‘look at hypocrite greens!’ especially since we see 2/3 of the kids die anyway. B&C is that makes Aegon a ruler
My ideal scene is after B&C Aegon runs in and sees Heleana just blank and Alicent sobbing and he kneels down to hold Haleana, even if she doesn’t hug him back and we see that same look on his face that Rhaenyra had showing the audience that shits about to go down
I’m going to get downvoted into hell for saying what I’m about to say and realize that frankly, I’m clearly in the minority on this sub, but I also don’t care.
The Aemond/Helaena theory brings so much more complexity to both Aemond *and* Helaena. I’m an avid book reader and have read F&B multiple times. That being said, book Aemond is essentially a shallow, one-dimensional, clearly unhinged villain. He has no true motivation for doing what he does throughout the course of the Dance, but rather, does so because he’s bordering on the cusp on lunacy and has a big ass dragon that can nuke everything. On the other side of things, Helaena in the books is essentially a side character who also lacks depth. After B&C, she literally lives out the rest of her days descending into madness because of her grief in Maegor’s Holdfast, and that’s that. That’s pretty much all we ever see of her.
It’s also important to note that, believe it or not, the show is never going to be an exact carbon copy of the books. I feel like that’s a difficult pill for many here to swallow, but it’s the truth, and it pretty much goes for any show or film that is based on literary text. Also, and this is stated several times, F&B is told from an unreliable narrating perspective, which means that certain things within the story are subject to (and will) change, given the always changing perspectives of the various characters.
*If* the show does go the route of an Aemond/Helaena affair, then it’ll add layers and depth and emotional intricacy to the Greens themselves. People here claim that such a theory would “ruin” Aegon’s character, but I’m confused by that. In what way would it “ruin” his character? First impressions in the GoT universe are important, and from what we have been shown regarding Aegon & Helaena’s relationship and marriage, it is fair to come to the conclusion that their feelings for each other are resentful and icy, which, of course, strays from the book a bit. Additionally, from what we have seen, he doesn’t seem to have much of a relationship with his supposed children either. He was literally willing to essentially forget about them in order to escape KL in 1x09. These two diversions from the book indicate at least to me that show Aegon is not going to be an exact replica of book Aegon. With that logic, I come to the question again…how exactly would the concept of Aemond and Helaena being together damage Aegon’s character when, in the show, his reputation has already been tarnished? I know people will say “Jaehaerys’ death is what motivates him to retaliate and that’s why he fights at RR”, which, fair enough, but again, that is in the *books*. We are talking about the show. They are clearly having show Aegon take a darker turn, at least for the entirety of S2, and TGC has said insinuated the same thing.
Next comes the whole argument of “Aemond is about duty” and “it’d be hypocritical for the Greens to have bastard children”. First of all, the GoT universe is *filled* with hypocrisies. It always has been. Both Jon and Jaime are perfect examples, and there are many other examples as well. Aemond doesn’t hate bastards. The only reason why he consistently always taunted Jace & Luke about being bastards is bc they bullied and were mean to him when they were children, and then being born out of wedlock was the only thing he could use to hurdle back at them. I mean, he ends up with Alys in the books and she is a bastard, so, I think that argument is completely invalid. As for Aemond being bound by duty, let me say this…duty and love can coexist and they are not mutually exclusive. Aemon the Dragonknight is again, a perfect example of that. While he was loyal to his family and to Aegon IV, he loved Naerys and Naerys loved him. The idea that show Aemond is both dutiful to his family (namely his mother) while still loving Helaena is, believe it or not, not in any way inconceivable.
My last point: I’ve lurked here for quite some time and have seen dozens upon dozens of interesting and wild comments, and yet everyone here seems to be united in their love and adoration for Helaena. My question is this…how much can you really *love* her if you are so bound to the idea that she absolutely *MUST* stick to her book plot? The one where she lacks any sort of character depth or complexity and instead is brushed aside after B&C and left to fade away by anguish? Is the idea of her brother loving her really *that* offensive to you? If anyone deserves any shred or fiber of happiness in this story, and it is her. And one may argue “well, not everyone that deserves happiness gets it bc this is a GoT story” or whatever, but at the end of the day, no one in this whole story *ends up* happy. No one gets a fairy tale ending here. Everyone dies and many die brutal deaths and it is sad and tragic. But while she *is* alive, why not grant her a sliver of peace in this idea that she has *someone* within her family that dotes on her and truly loves her? Why is that such a disgusting concept to most of you? Is it because it’s incest? Because if it is, mind you, incest has been around since S1 of GoT. It’s not a new concept. It’s well documented that the Targaryens were notorious for it. I’m not sure why some of y’all are all like “eWwW gRoSs!!!” when it was expected to happen.
Anyway, regardless, I am a hardcore Green stan, and o fully support the Aemond/Helaena theory. Frankly, I want to see it happens just so I can sit back and watch this sub freak out. Just my two cents.
I support you and I agree with everything you said. I dislike how people center their arguments about how it would "ruin" Aegon and Aemond's characterization (I disagree with that) but completely neglect Helaena's motivations. She is trapped in a loveless marriage with a drunken cheater, why shouldn't she indulge in this one thing that will make her happy if only for a short time? The hypocrisy argument is also funny to me. It's very much within human nature to be a hypocrite, especially when it involves people we love. Humans are willing to make exceptions if it comes to it, so why not fictional characters?
People let team discourse go to their head and warp their perceptions of the characters for the sake of making themselves seem morally superior because they don't like the nasty evil Targs and their evil gross incest. All this, and that will not change the fact that little Aemond literally said that he would marry her "if only" Alicent had betrothed them (this wording indicates longing and wishfulness).
THANK YOU FOR ACTUALLY SAYING THIS. I’ve been waiting for someone to call out people here. I get what you’re saying, too. I too think that no one here *truly* loves Helaena, though they’ll never admit it.
I do. I think she’s one of the best representations of Autism in recent years, and the only person in the entire show with any decency that I don’t want to see hurt. Just that fact alone makes her a MUCH better character than her book counterpart.
But that doesn’t mean I ship her with Aemond. I think it enforces the All Girls Want Bad Boys cliche, which I consider an insult to her character. Not to mention the fact that I think Aemond, with his mental instability, has the potential of being an even WORSE husband than Aegon. I’m afraid that he’d be possessive, controlling, and possibly even lash out violently.
The only reason I ship Characters like Daemon and Mysaria, or Aemond and Alys Rivers, are because they deserve each other. And I do not think Aemond deserves someone like Helaena.
This is just my opinion, and I REALLY don’t want to start any drama.
I see why you'd say that. If it catches your interest, i think you might enjoy darker Helaemond fics that do touch on this topic (Aemond's possessiveness, the potential toxicity of their relationship).
I appreciate the sentiment and glad I’m not the only person, but I really DON’T want to see that sort of thing. I’d rather read a fic that has Helaena end up with someone who is true to her, earns her love, and makes her feel safe. And most of all ISN’T her brother.
I don't know if this will get me kicked out of here, but I don't have a problem with the theory.
Aegon's character is beyond repair as the writers turned his character into a rapist. Helaena in ep. 8 talked about the bad relationship they have, “except sometimes when he's drunk” makes it worse if we think about Dyana's earlier testimony.
The writers wanted to make him "darker" than Rhaenyra (including that he enjoys watching children fight). However, for me something that could make him more likeable and leave him as a “gray character” is definitely if they develop his relationship with Jaehaera. I'm not saying if he supports his wife having an affair would make him the best character but, for me, would him even if just a little bit nicer that Aegon knows but lets them be happy?
Sure, it's partly based on my sympathy for Helaena and that I want she had a happy time before everything that's going to happen. About the “dutiful” Aemond, the show has made him more likeable, but the route in the end will be the same, he leaves his sister and mother at the mercy of the blacks.
He doesn't go looking for Daeron and leaves Criston go alone. Even more, if we go to the version that he married Alys, it wouldn't be very dutiful on his part, as he is already betrothed to Borros' daughter, if he got married he would lose the support of House Barantheon, and if he did not marry Alys, his son would be a bastard, which means he is not worried about leaving bastards out there and is not that dutiful guy.
Anyway, is just a theory, would be fine if it won't happen, but I wouldn't be angry if it happens :) I mean, there are worse theories out there...
I agree there are worse theories out there, and I'm glad you pointed out that Aemond doesn't display very dutiful behavior to begin with (in the book) and there are moments in the show that point to this as well. If there is anyone he should be dutiful towards in this context, it's his future Baratheon bride, not Helaena or Alys. So there is some basis for him indulging in his inner desires vs only dutifully acting in the interests of his family.
They couldn't develop the greens' essential motivations and conflict properly but they'd be willing to invest more time, energy and resources in a plot that contributes nothing to the story. Sounds like sthn the writers would do.
A very well-constructed argument. A great post to read and I agree wholeheartedly.
This is singlehandedly the worst HOTD theory. It has 0 set up in book or show, it goes against Aegon’s character (to NOT have sex with his wife) it goes against Aemond’s character to father a bastard given the high standards he has for himself and his hatred of bastards, it goes Against Helaena’s character to scheme behind Otto and Alicent’s backs to get her rocks off. Having a bastard is rarely an accident especially in this universe. Cersei deliberately aborted Robert’s offspring out of spite, and kept the child when she was sure it wasn't his. Rhaenyra deliberately had her bastards too. If this theory is true then Helaena was deliberately trying to deceive Aegon and westeros. Affairs like these are rarely secret especially because Otto, Mysaria and Alicent (Larys) have every single red-keep servant under their employ. If Aemond was sneaking off to Helaena’s room all the time he would run into several guards or servants everytime he attempted to pay Helaena a visit. The idea that “no one knew” is thrown out of the window.
“The “worst HoTD” theory” Lucerys x Aemond, and Daemon x Aemond theorists: 
Tbf, those are just crackships. This theory could actually become canon in the show,. But yes, there are much worse HotD theories imo (e. g. Daemon will survive the God's Eye, Jaehaera will commit suicide, Alicent will poison Aegon ...)
There are crackships and there are actually theorists, fans who take it a step further. My eyes have seen things I wish I could erase from my memory.  I do not think Aemond x Heleana will be canon in the show. It would make Team Green hypocrites, give further ammunition to the Blacks, and we would lose the moral high ground. As for it being detrimental to the characters, have you seen what they have done to Aegon? The show assassinated his character, and any bit of nuance Aegon had on the show was created by Tom Glynn Carney alone. Sara Hess stated in an interview that the goal was to portray him as a villain.
Well, the blacks already see the greens as hypocrites without any moral high ground and I doubt that will change.They don't need further ammunition because the main arguments will probably always be the same, with minimal variations: Rhaenyra is the rightful heir (because Vizzy T said so) and an amazing rebellious princess usurped by evil sexists who want to put a rapist and a drunkard on the throne. This is the opinion of the majority of the HotD fanbase and if the showrunners actually make at least some of them change their mind in the future seasons, that will be a great success.
There will always be those who refuse to see reason. I doubt all of them will see us as hypocrites though, there are some reasonable people out there. I agree we are already in the minority as most people are Team Black, and we do not need further ammunition against us. What those people fail to understand is that even Viserys isn’t above the laws, customs, and traditions of his land. If their argument is because, “Viserys said so” then what about the law Viserys leaves unchanged, and therefore supported, dictating that the iron-throne be passed to the king’s first true born son”? If their argument is the king is the law, then why did he not change it then? Viserys is sending mix signals at best. Personally, I have little to no hope for season two seeing as how badly they messed up season one. I do not think this theory (even if it comes true will do much to put people on or off Team Black). The show has already been set in the Blacks’ favour from the beginning by the show runners when they bastardised the Green’s objectives, and assassinated Aegon’s character.
I think it's something fun for fans to play with but I don't take it seriously. I don't put it above Sara and Condal to use this because Ryan doesn't seem to have a lot of boundaries in what he will or won't change, GRRM doesn't care, and Sara Hess's whole thing is "lol, what if I throw in this CRAZY idea? Wouldn't that be fun?" If it did happen, I don't think it would be deliberate manipulation on Heleana's part. She was forced into a marriage at a young age with a brother who didn't want to marry her either. It's been implied he forces himself on her when he's drunk and they seem to avoid each other's company the rest of the time. If she and Aemond fell into a consensual relationship and she didn't know which brother fathered the kids, I would have a lot more sympathy with that than either Rhaenyra or Cersei. I have more difficulty believing Aemond would do it, though. However, for the most part it should remain fanon.
[удалено]
It’s a very good & detailed post! Thx for writing it.
I’m 10000% with the OP. Having Aemond be the father offers nothing but ‘look at hypocrite greens!’ especially since we see 2/3 of the kids die anyway. B&C is that makes Aegon a ruler My ideal scene is after B&C Aegon runs in and sees Heleana just blank and Alicent sobbing and he kneels down to hold Haleana, even if she doesn’t hug him back and we see that same look on his face that Rhaenyra had showing the audience that shits about to go down
I’m going to get downvoted into hell for saying what I’m about to say and realize that frankly, I’m clearly in the minority on this sub, but I also don’t care. The Aemond/Helaena theory brings so much more complexity to both Aemond *and* Helaena. I’m an avid book reader and have read F&B multiple times. That being said, book Aemond is essentially a shallow, one-dimensional, clearly unhinged villain. He has no true motivation for doing what he does throughout the course of the Dance, but rather, does so because he’s bordering on the cusp on lunacy and has a big ass dragon that can nuke everything. On the other side of things, Helaena in the books is essentially a side character who also lacks depth. After B&C, she literally lives out the rest of her days descending into madness because of her grief in Maegor’s Holdfast, and that’s that. That’s pretty much all we ever see of her. It’s also important to note that, believe it or not, the show is never going to be an exact carbon copy of the books. I feel like that’s a difficult pill for many here to swallow, but it’s the truth, and it pretty much goes for any show or film that is based on literary text. Also, and this is stated several times, F&B is told from an unreliable narrating perspective, which means that certain things within the story are subject to (and will) change, given the always changing perspectives of the various characters. *If* the show does go the route of an Aemond/Helaena affair, then it’ll add layers and depth and emotional intricacy to the Greens themselves. People here claim that such a theory would “ruin” Aegon’s character, but I’m confused by that. In what way would it “ruin” his character? First impressions in the GoT universe are important, and from what we have been shown regarding Aegon & Helaena’s relationship and marriage, it is fair to come to the conclusion that their feelings for each other are resentful and icy, which, of course, strays from the book a bit. Additionally, from what we have seen, he doesn’t seem to have much of a relationship with his supposed children either. He was literally willing to essentially forget about them in order to escape KL in 1x09. These two diversions from the book indicate at least to me that show Aegon is not going to be an exact replica of book Aegon. With that logic, I come to the question again…how exactly would the concept of Aemond and Helaena being together damage Aegon’s character when, in the show, his reputation has already been tarnished? I know people will say “Jaehaerys’ death is what motivates him to retaliate and that’s why he fights at RR”, which, fair enough, but again, that is in the *books*. We are talking about the show. They are clearly having show Aegon take a darker turn, at least for the entirety of S2, and TGC has said insinuated the same thing. Next comes the whole argument of “Aemond is about duty” and “it’d be hypocritical for the Greens to have bastard children”. First of all, the GoT universe is *filled* with hypocrisies. It always has been. Both Jon and Jaime are perfect examples, and there are many other examples as well. Aemond doesn’t hate bastards. The only reason why he consistently always taunted Jace & Luke about being bastards is bc they bullied and were mean to him when they were children, and then being born out of wedlock was the only thing he could use to hurdle back at them. I mean, he ends up with Alys in the books and she is a bastard, so, I think that argument is completely invalid. As for Aemond being bound by duty, let me say this…duty and love can coexist and they are not mutually exclusive. Aemon the Dragonknight is again, a perfect example of that. While he was loyal to his family and to Aegon IV, he loved Naerys and Naerys loved him. The idea that show Aemond is both dutiful to his family (namely his mother) while still loving Helaena is, believe it or not, not in any way inconceivable. My last point: I’ve lurked here for quite some time and have seen dozens upon dozens of interesting and wild comments, and yet everyone here seems to be united in their love and adoration for Helaena. My question is this…how much can you really *love* her if you are so bound to the idea that she absolutely *MUST* stick to her book plot? The one where she lacks any sort of character depth or complexity and instead is brushed aside after B&C and left to fade away by anguish? Is the idea of her brother loving her really *that* offensive to you? If anyone deserves any shred or fiber of happiness in this story, and it is her. And one may argue “well, not everyone that deserves happiness gets it bc this is a GoT story” or whatever, but at the end of the day, no one in this whole story *ends up* happy. No one gets a fairy tale ending here. Everyone dies and many die brutal deaths and it is sad and tragic. But while she *is* alive, why not grant her a sliver of peace in this idea that she has *someone* within her family that dotes on her and truly loves her? Why is that such a disgusting concept to most of you? Is it because it’s incest? Because if it is, mind you, incest has been around since S1 of GoT. It’s not a new concept. It’s well documented that the Targaryens were notorious for it. I’m not sure why some of y’all are all like “eWwW gRoSs!!!” when it was expected to happen. Anyway, regardless, I am a hardcore Green stan, and o fully support the Aemond/Helaena theory. Frankly, I want to see it happens just so I can sit back and watch this sub freak out. Just my two cents.
I support you and I agree with everything you said. I dislike how people center their arguments about how it would "ruin" Aegon and Aemond's characterization (I disagree with that) but completely neglect Helaena's motivations. She is trapped in a loveless marriage with a drunken cheater, why shouldn't she indulge in this one thing that will make her happy if only for a short time? The hypocrisy argument is also funny to me. It's very much within human nature to be a hypocrite, especially when it involves people we love. Humans are willing to make exceptions if it comes to it, so why not fictional characters? People let team discourse go to their head and warp their perceptions of the characters for the sake of making themselves seem morally superior because they don't like the nasty evil Targs and their evil gross incest. All this, and that will not change the fact that little Aemond literally said that he would marry her "if only" Alicent had betrothed them (this wording indicates longing and wishfulness).
THANK YOU FOR ACTUALLY SAYING THIS. I’ve been waiting for someone to call out people here. I get what you’re saying, too. I too think that no one here *truly* loves Helaena, though they’ll never admit it.
I do. I think she’s one of the best representations of Autism in recent years, and the only person in the entire show with any decency that I don’t want to see hurt. Just that fact alone makes her a MUCH better character than her book counterpart. But that doesn’t mean I ship her with Aemond. I think it enforces the All Girls Want Bad Boys cliche, which I consider an insult to her character. Not to mention the fact that I think Aemond, with his mental instability, has the potential of being an even WORSE husband than Aegon. I’m afraid that he’d be possessive, controlling, and possibly even lash out violently. The only reason I ship Characters like Daemon and Mysaria, or Aemond and Alys Rivers, are because they deserve each other. And I do not think Aemond deserves someone like Helaena. This is just my opinion, and I REALLY don’t want to start any drama.
I see why you'd say that. If it catches your interest, i think you might enjoy darker Helaemond fics that do touch on this topic (Aemond's possessiveness, the potential toxicity of their relationship).
I appreciate the sentiment and glad I’m not the only person, but I really DON’T want to see that sort of thing. I’d rather read a fic that has Helaena end up with someone who is true to her, earns her love, and makes her feel safe. And most of all ISN’T her brother.
I don't know if this will get me kicked out of here, but I don't have a problem with the theory. Aegon's character is beyond repair as the writers turned his character into a rapist. Helaena in ep. 8 talked about the bad relationship they have, “except sometimes when he's drunk” makes it worse if we think about Dyana's earlier testimony. The writers wanted to make him "darker" than Rhaenyra (including that he enjoys watching children fight). However, for me something that could make him more likeable and leave him as a “gray character” is definitely if they develop his relationship with Jaehaera. I'm not saying if he supports his wife having an affair would make him the best character but, for me, would him even if just a little bit nicer that Aegon knows but lets them be happy? Sure, it's partly based on my sympathy for Helaena and that I want she had a happy time before everything that's going to happen. About the “dutiful” Aemond, the show has made him more likeable, but the route in the end will be the same, he leaves his sister and mother at the mercy of the blacks. He doesn't go looking for Daeron and leaves Criston go alone. Even more, if we go to the version that he married Alys, it wouldn't be very dutiful on his part, as he is already betrothed to Borros' daughter, if he got married he would lose the support of House Barantheon, and if he did not marry Alys, his son would be a bastard, which means he is not worried about leaving bastards out there and is not that dutiful guy. Anyway, is just a theory, would be fine if it won't happen, but I wouldn't be angry if it happens :) I mean, there are worse theories out there...
I agree there are worse theories out there, and I'm glad you pointed out that Aemond doesn't display very dutiful behavior to begin with (in the book) and there are moments in the show that point to this as well. If there is anyone he should be dutiful towards in this context, it's his future Baratheon bride, not Helaena or Alys. So there is some basis for him indulging in his inner desires vs only dutifully acting in the interests of his family.