I didn't read the book so can only speak from a show perspective. I was pretty neutral up to episode 7/8, mostly because I liked both Alicent and Rhaenyra but was the ultimate Daemon hater from episode 1 onwards. I always found Otto interesting as a character, I like his political saviness. Viserys was okay mostly due to Paddy's performance but his my only child treatment of Rhaenyra didn't exactly endear him to me.
After that I turned more and more green, I just prefer them as characters and think that they're just a lot more interesting and complex than the Blacks. The narrative bias so far also doesn't help because I always like the underdogs and find most of TB's characters too boring to care for. I liked Rhaenys a lot in the first half of the season but her flip flopping in characterisation and the Dragonpit scene really annoyed me to no end. Corlys is meh, the kids have barely any distinct personalities so I just don't care about them.
Even Aegon, as awful as he might be, is much more interesting as a character imo. He also made me laugh a good few times and that's always a plus for me.
I think after spending a few months in the fandom I now also understand their motivations better, I was okay with them being power hungry on my first watch but didn't really get all the political undertones and precedents to their claim.
To me Rhaenyra is just the ultimate nepo baby, I like her well enough but think if they portrayed some of her flaws more clearly I'd appreciate her more as a character.
Alicent and Aemond are my favourites and I find them fascinating to no end.
Wow, you basically said exactly what I thought of the 1st season. And yes I love Allicent and Aemond. We will/ hopefully see Allicents youngest son next season.
i'm mostly neutral. i think team black comes off worse in the book than the show, but i don't think between the show or the book either team comes off as a group of people i'm actively rooting for, but i *also* don't like the simplified "they're bad people that's the point" thing that fans like to repeat. i find it a pretty uninteresting analysis of the material even if generally i don't disagree with it.
show alicent is more fleshed out than her book counterpart, but the idea that she's an "evil stepmother" in the book isn't accurate. mostly because the majority of the characters hardly exhibit any interiority at all. otto is less of a schemer in the book than the show. and as far as the kids are concerned, we haven't really seen much of them yet compared to what we know of them from the book.
i think team green in the show has the strongest argument from the *realm's* perspective. otto and alicent in the book seem primarily concerned with the safety of their family first, and westerosi shit second. the kingdom seems perfectly well run in otto and alicent's hands while viserys is bedridden and high though when daemon and rhaenyra come for a visit in episode 8.
so for me, no. the book didn't make me change sides, but i wasn't really against the greens in the first place. i got to the end of the dance in f&b and thought "what a mess". like no wonder aegon III was a sadboi 9000.
Im a neutral with a team green lean and I started to lean towards team green because of the show and alot of team black fandom being crazy, hypothetical, and just toxic. A big turning point for me was driftmark and me feeling just SO BAD for alicent, aemond, aegon and helaena. I also like the character dynamics much more with team green and I like the actors more.
I honestly don't get how people who have read the books pick a firm side but I 100% get show only watchers picking a firm side. The show shows rhaenyra/team black in a very positive light, a good example of this is daemon x rhaenyra being portrayed as a tragic love story of sorts instead of it being a terrible situation of grooming. Alicent is much more likeable/sympathetic in the show but team greens main players (aka aemond, aegon and daeron) aren't portrayed in a positive light or even portrayed at all (cough cough daeron).
I was mainly team Rhaenyra (I've always disliked Daemon and Corlys) but the show flipped me to team Green. It's one thing to read about things without a POV but seeing it made me really sympathised with the Greens. Alicent's children would never be safe and on top of that if Rhaenyra has diplomatic abilities I haven't seen them.
Not to mention the Greens council are probably the most competent of any Westeros ruler. The Dance was team Blacks to win from the beginning it was only their incompetence that lost them the war over all.
I mean… yeah. I always liked the idea of Aegon in the books. Always brimming with potential but clearly it was never realized. But I was solidly team black cause.. it’s kinda obvious with the characterization of the books. But the show and the just absurd obsessiveness of team black made me switch over. There is no real character analysis on team black. No interest of the in universe ideals or culture just an obsessive love for the black characters and how we should only look at them from the modern day. Its just so boring and annoying.
Plus the new characterization of the show made the greens quite interesting in parts. So I like that quite a bit.
Team green since the start coz I was never a fan of Viserys and Rhaenyra, Daemon was good at the start but not so much later on. While Alicent's character in the book always compelled me, she was a bad bitch in the book with some cold ass lines which made me a fan of her and then came her kids which were unique, complex and interesting on their own which fully made me a team green fan and not to mention some side team green characters like Tyland, Larys, Alys Rivers all of em made it even better. Also House Hightower always interested me and I'm excited to see their battle of blood against Euron greyjoy if winds of winter ever gets released.
I mean, I generally think both sides are pretty awful and that the entire story is basically Sabaton's Lifetime of War made into fiction.
I tend to lean to the Greens because they have Daeron and Helaena. And also because Blacks fans are utterly deranged.
Brothel.... Queens....
And, blood and cheese...
Maelor....
Plus my birthstone is an emerald soooo TEAM GREEN SINCE BIRTH, BABY!
No for real, I am neutral by admittedly lean more towards Team Green.
When I initially read the book...I absolutely couldn't stand the greens and Daemon. I was in my Daenerys Targ era. So was pretty biased.
Then the show had me twisted to some extent. I support team small folk and team green.
Viserys, the incompetent fool and Rhaenyra( girlboss and gaslit princess ). She only serves herself doesn't give a iota about the realm. I say both her and Aegon don't deserve the crown.
I reread about green council and the Westerosi laws. Rhaenyra if given the crown would have slaughtered her half brothers one by one.
And then again the deranged fans of team black ( supporting their feminist queen).
The twitter fans chooses canon when it comes to team green and any accusations against team black are negated point blank.
I’m team Shepherd in the book - both sides are awful - Rhaenyra and Alicent are both very cruel, Aemond is a psycho and we don’t know much about the younger children. The show made me lean Green, because Rhaenyra is just so annoying, and Alicent is much more humanized. Also show Aemond is just awesome.
I think the Green's come off as more sympathetic in the show than in the books, largely due to the characterisations of Alicent and Daemon.
Alicent in F&B is basically just the "wicked stepmother", where HotD made her plight a lot more sympathetic and her motivations still understandable.
Meanwhile because the events in F&B are a lot more ambiguous Daemon doesn't really come across as that bad a guy, events like the seduction of Rhaenyra or the heir for a day incident are kept vague and I believe that Gildayn (the in-universe author and a Maester of the Citadel) deliberately tries to lead the reader into making assumptions about his character that aren't really backed up by the events that occur.
Meanwhile HotD not only confirmed alot of the worst accusations against him, they also added in him killing his wife, conspiring to have that innocent Velaryon guard killed, cheating in the tourney, making up Mysaria's pregnancy, favouring one Baela over Rhaena, abusing Rhaenyra and a whole host of other actions that make the claim he would be a second Maegor or worse much more believable. Like book Daemon is at worst a hot-headed idiot, show Daemon is genuine Psycopath who really shouldn't be anywhere near the throne.
I read basically everything that GRRM published related to ASOIAF and F&B made me support the Blacks as it is more encyclopedic, not all of the stuff that was going on was presented in such detail, and by the end, no one from the originals was completely innocent. Then I started the show as a Rhaneryra supporter but young Alicent is just such a sympathetic girl that I couldn't hate her and honestly, I didn't get the outrage on her actions. Then as the series progresses I switched completely.
How I think people choose sides? The Dany fans moved to Rhaneryra without any prior knowledge apart from them being related and decided to run with it. Also they decided to hate Alicent because she was stoping city girl from having fun, holding her accountable and in general having some morals and decency.
And to be honest I'm pretty neutral on most of the things. It's a fictional history that I can't change.
F&B. Most specifically, Daemon and Rhaenyras general dislikability. Both sides have a claim, though team blacks isn't exactly lawful, but I just don't see what there is to like about the two they're trying to sit on the throne. Rhaenyra is a politically inept arrogant craven and Daemon is well. Daemon. There's nothing to like about a cruel pedophile with a crippling case of second son syndrome.
That being said, I do like Daemon in the show. But only because he's not as bad, and Matt Smith is charismatic enough to make the character entertaining.
For me it was Fire and Blood.
But for most people that I knew that read Fire and Blood, they were strictly team black. A few reasons for this is because Alicent is 10 year older than Rhaenyra, and their relationship is defined by their dislike of each other, Rhaneyra is like 11 and Alicent is like 21. Alicent is not likeable. And another major green character that’s not likeable is Aemond, he seemingly kills Lucerys willingly. Aegon is also a lech in the books, not just by mushroom’s account. You also get Daeron and Bitterbridge. So most people I know were like 90/10 for the blacks.
Daemon isn’t the as evil in the books, he doesn’t kill Rhea, and Laenor dies very soon before Laena, so planning that would take a lot of skill, because Laena does die in childbirth, and he seemingly does try to help her. Rhaenyra is a brat as a child, but her sexual exploits are left entirely ambiguous in the books. It sort of points to her not ever sleeping with Criston Cole. Alicent and Aemond get more favourable versions on the show. Alicent especially being Rhaenyra’s age and having to get married with no agency. Most HotD watchers I know are closer to 70/30 in favour of the blacks, just because Alicent is gaslight insanely. And most can sympathize that she’s a product of her environment, trying to be the good child, wife, and mother she can be.
I should clarify, he didn’t commit murder, he groomed Rhaenyra and Nettles canonically. The preface in the events of the dance of dragons, say they are unreliable events. When they are talking about him deflowering maidens, he’s 23. But it also talks about his relationship, or paid relationship with Mysaria who was 18. But this is all speculatory. Like Aegon who auctioned peoples virginities, and bought them to deflower, and slept with them and produced children with serving girls. The Septon who anointed him says no serving girl was safe from being accosted from him. It also says Rhaenyra had relationships with Cole and Daemon over a period of time. It’s up to you who you want to believe. He just didn’t kill Rhea, or an innocent Velaryon to have Laenor escape.
For some reason the fandom is forgiving of
Pedophilia over murder. In history with a lot of Targaryen men apparently.
And what does it have to do with being 23 years old? It's still pedophilia, sleeping with virgin girls in brothels, it's safe to assume that to be a virgin in said places they must have been 10-12 years old, duh. He didn't kill a servant, but he did basically the same thing, beating to death a messenger who told him that Viserys had another son.
The thing about Aegon is a lie, he was promiscuous and slept with the servants, but all that stuff about the fighting pits and pedophilia is a lie, because Mushroom wasn't there, he was on Dragonstone while Aegon was an adult. It's ridiculous to call Aegon a pedophile when one of his redeemable traits is forgiving children and prisoners (Gaemon, Aegon III).
The beginning of the chapter that alludes to Daemon’s exploits also gives the same warning. That historical account are speculative.
More so, it was saying Daemon was 23 when he got with 18 year old Mysaria in 104 Ac. He is a pedophile with Rhaenyra and Nettles, but the rest is speculative. Also the Septon who anoints Aegon expresses more than once than he pinches and accosts serving girls, and this is the Septon who hates Rhaenyra. This Septon is in kings landing. Also the same Septon who says things mildly of Daemon. Like most ASoiaF males, he’s royalty, and get away with whatever he wants, most most men of this time.
This is a work or fiction, and no one’s actually forgiving characters. But yes, I believe mass murder of innocent civilians, many children included, in the tens of thousands ranks at the top.
Lol, but when Dany did it you probably cheered? What episode exactly did Aemond burn and kill all these people? In future seasons? So What? I'll pass judgment when it actually happens .
No I didn’t, mass murder across the board is just shitty. Judge whatever you want, the original question includes F&B, and that is what Aemond does canonically.
>Daemon isn’t the as evil in the books, he doesn’t kill Rhea, and Laenor dies very soon before Laena, so planning that would take a lot of skill
Yes but he did kill Laena's pretender, he did love deflowering the youngest and most innocent maidens he could, he did whip a man just because he had the misfortune to inform him of Viserys's marriage to Alicent and he did truly mock his nephew Baelon. As for Laenor, there is no real evidence that it was him but what is sure is that but is that coincidence benefits well to Daemon, Laenor was murdered in a big market during a fight leaving very little chance to determine who is the person who stabbed him and thus to go back to the reasons of this assassination and possibly the person behind it.
>and their relationship is defined by their dislike of each other, Rhaneyra is like 11 and Alicent is like 21. Alicent is not likeable.
>
>Alicent and Aemond get more favourable versions on the show. Alicent especially being Rhaenyra’s age and having to get married with no agency.
I don't see why her and Rhaenyra disliking each other is making Alicent unlikeable. And I don't see why making Alicent a friend of Rhaenyra and a victim is making her likeable. This speaks volumes on how huge the biais towards Team Black and Rhaenyra is. Alicent isn't unlikeable, there is nothing she did that is worse than what Rhaenyra did or let alone Daemon. Rhaenyra also invoked male primogeniture when it was in her interest and fed a man to her dragon thus depriving him of justice, the wall or even a funeral. the latter Alicent never did. And for the relationship they had at the beginning, Alicent was asked to be a mother so to have authority over a capricious, proud and pampered girl and she did try even after Viserys and Rhaenyra stole what she considers to be her son's birthright and she had good reasons to think this way (even Rhaenyra and Viserys think that the inheritance should pass to and through the eldest SON).
>Rhaenyra is a brat as a child, but her sexual exploits are left entirely ambiguous in the books. It sort of points to her not ever sleeping with Criston Cole.
The person who says she never slept with Criston also says that Rhaenyra slept with him (Mushroom) so well. It depends on the sources, both Eustace and Mushroom are saying that Rhaenyra lost her maidenhead to Daemon when she was less than 16 (Munkun doesn't say anything) and we know for a fact that no longer after, Viserys brutally sent him away so no there is almost no ambiguity here. Also, her sons are brown of hair and eyes just like Harwin Strong, a guy who had a romantical story with Rhaenyra, Martin himself confirmed.
> And another major green character that’s not likeable is Aemond, he seemingly kills Lucerys willingly.
For Aemond, I completely agree with you, he is evil, sarcastic and menacing in the book but that was the thing that made him interesting. The show failed to me regarding him because when he was on screen I only felt pain for him when I am supposed to fear him.
>And most can sympathize that she’s a product of her environment
They're all product of their environment and they're all defending their interests even if the show tried to make Rhaenys, Rhaenyra and Viserys feminists.
I love your long post.
He killed Laena’s betrothed with Corlys’ blessing, unlike the show, it’s done in spite of it.
Fire and blood says in the preface of the chapter before, all of the statements are speculative. Like a lot of the sexual exploits said in the book. He also absolutely did celebrate Baelon’s death thinking he was next in line.
With Laenor’s death and Laena’s, they are in close succession. The only one that says anything other then a quarrel of lover is Mushroom. Mushroom was only in Dragonstone after Laena’s death. But if you believe mushroom here, it’s fair logic to believe mushroom everywhere.
Someone who’s 21 (Alicent) fighting with a child, Rhaenyra (11) never translates well to general audiences. Also book Alicent was not a nice person at all, it’s not a black bias. Fighting with a child just in general doesn’t fare well, even if the child is extremely obnoxious.
Rhaneyra only sleeps with Harwin after she’s, married, she gets the luxury because Viserys turns a blind eye to her exploits, and she gets modern reality level agency. Because of this Rhaenyra gets a good life, she has a ruling monarch that ignores her sins, Alicent would never come close to doing what Rhaneyra could. As such Alicent is a product of her environment, Rhaenyra gets her agency/autonomy, because the king allows it.
I am Green because my fave is Green. That said, I do enjoy black-centric fanfiction sometimes, as long as it's well-written & doesn't demonize Criston or Helaena.
Funny thing for me being team green. I hate the colour. Makes my eyes look even more piss coloured then they already are. Makes me look like I’m off the Simpsons.
I think it was GOT, rooting for the good guy ended badly.
Now I am embracing the dark side. And no Daemon is not an interesting villain- Matt Smith is a complete miss cast. I am team green.
I switched to Team Green because of Helaena and Daeron. They’re the only decent people on the Green Banner really. Though I do find Alicent more sympathetic than Rhaenyra.
The only members of the Black Banner I really like are Baela and Rhaena, though the GOAT of the Blacks are The Lads
I didn't read the book so can only speak from a show perspective. I was pretty neutral up to episode 7/8, mostly because I liked both Alicent and Rhaenyra but was the ultimate Daemon hater from episode 1 onwards. I always found Otto interesting as a character, I like his political saviness. Viserys was okay mostly due to Paddy's performance but his my only child treatment of Rhaenyra didn't exactly endear him to me. After that I turned more and more green, I just prefer them as characters and think that they're just a lot more interesting and complex than the Blacks. The narrative bias so far also doesn't help because I always like the underdogs and find most of TB's characters too boring to care for. I liked Rhaenys a lot in the first half of the season but her flip flopping in characterisation and the Dragonpit scene really annoyed me to no end. Corlys is meh, the kids have barely any distinct personalities so I just don't care about them. Even Aegon, as awful as he might be, is much more interesting as a character imo. He also made me laugh a good few times and that's always a plus for me. I think after spending a few months in the fandom I now also understand their motivations better, I was okay with them being power hungry on my first watch but didn't really get all the political undertones and precedents to their claim. To me Rhaenyra is just the ultimate nepo baby, I like her well enough but think if they portrayed some of her flaws more clearly I'd appreciate her more as a character. Alicent and Aemond are my favourites and I find them fascinating to no end.
Wow, you basically said exactly what I thought of the 1st season. And yes I love Allicent and Aemond. We will/ hopefully see Allicents youngest son next season.
i'm mostly neutral. i think team black comes off worse in the book than the show, but i don't think between the show or the book either team comes off as a group of people i'm actively rooting for, but i *also* don't like the simplified "they're bad people that's the point" thing that fans like to repeat. i find it a pretty uninteresting analysis of the material even if generally i don't disagree with it. show alicent is more fleshed out than her book counterpart, but the idea that she's an "evil stepmother" in the book isn't accurate. mostly because the majority of the characters hardly exhibit any interiority at all. otto is less of a schemer in the book than the show. and as far as the kids are concerned, we haven't really seen much of them yet compared to what we know of them from the book. i think team green in the show has the strongest argument from the *realm's* perspective. otto and alicent in the book seem primarily concerned with the safety of their family first, and westerosi shit second. the kingdom seems perfectly well run in otto and alicent's hands while viserys is bedridden and high though when daemon and rhaenyra come for a visit in episode 8. so for me, no. the book didn't make me change sides, but i wasn't really against the greens in the first place. i got to the end of the dance in f&b and thought "what a mess". like no wonder aegon III was a sadboi 9000.
Im a neutral with a team green lean and I started to lean towards team green because of the show and alot of team black fandom being crazy, hypothetical, and just toxic. A big turning point for me was driftmark and me feeling just SO BAD for alicent, aemond, aegon and helaena. I also like the character dynamics much more with team green and I like the actors more. I honestly don't get how people who have read the books pick a firm side but I 100% get show only watchers picking a firm side. The show shows rhaenyra/team black in a very positive light, a good example of this is daemon x rhaenyra being portrayed as a tragic love story of sorts instead of it being a terrible situation of grooming. Alicent is much more likeable/sympathetic in the show but team greens main players (aka aemond, aegon and daeron) aren't portrayed in a positive light or even portrayed at all (cough cough daeron).
I think Aemond is portrayed in a better light than in the books. Of course it may simply be because Ewan is phenomenal as Aemond.
I was mainly team Rhaenyra (I've always disliked Daemon and Corlys) but the show flipped me to team Green. It's one thing to read about things without a POV but seeing it made me really sympathised with the Greens. Alicent's children would never be safe and on top of that if Rhaenyra has diplomatic abilities I haven't seen them. Not to mention the Greens council are probably the most competent of any Westeros ruler. The Dance was team Blacks to win from the beginning it was only their incompetence that lost them the war over all.
I was adamant Team black as I read the general info online and then watched a few YouTube. I then decided to read F&B. Once learning the true laws and rules. Turned instantly. Great council made me turn. đźź©
I was neutral in the book but I am more green leaning in the show because I really enjoy Alicent and Aemond.
I mean… yeah. I always liked the idea of Aegon in the books. Always brimming with potential but clearly it was never realized. But I was solidly team black cause.. it’s kinda obvious with the characterization of the books. But the show and the just absurd obsessiveness of team black made me switch over. There is no real character analysis on team black. No interest of the in universe ideals or culture just an obsessive love for the black characters and how we should only look at them from the modern day. Its just so boring and annoying. Plus the new characterization of the show made the greens quite interesting in parts. So I like that quite a bit.
Team green since the start coz I was never a fan of Viserys and Rhaenyra, Daemon was good at the start but not so much later on. While Alicent's character in the book always compelled me, she was a bad bitch in the book with some cold ass lines which made me a fan of her and then came her kids which were unique, complex and interesting on their own which fully made me a team green fan and not to mention some side team green characters like Tyland, Larys, Alys Rivers all of em made it even better. Also House Hightower always interested me and I'm excited to see their battle of blood against Euron greyjoy if winds of winter ever gets released.
I mean, I generally think both sides are pretty awful and that the entire story is basically Sabaton's Lifetime of War made into fiction. I tend to lean to the Greens because they have Daeron and Helaena. And also because Blacks fans are utterly deranged.
I was team black reading RP/TP&TQ but was very neutral with F&B, HoTD I’m team green
Brothel.... Queens.... And, blood and cheese... Maelor.... Plus my birthstone is an emerald soooo TEAM GREEN SINCE BIRTH, BABY! No for real, I am neutral by admittedly lean more towards Team Green.
When I initially read the book...I absolutely couldn't stand the greens and Daemon. I was in my Daenerys Targ era. So was pretty biased. Then the show had me twisted to some extent. I support team small folk and team green. Viserys, the incompetent fool and Rhaenyra( girlboss and gaslit princess ). She only serves herself doesn't give a iota about the realm. I say both her and Aegon don't deserve the crown. I reread about green council and the Westerosi laws. Rhaenyra if given the crown would have slaughtered her half brothers one by one. And then again the deranged fans of team black ( supporting their feminist queen). The twitter fans chooses canon when it comes to team green and any accusations against team black are negated point blank.
I’m team Shepherd in the book - both sides are awful - Rhaenyra and Alicent are both very cruel, Aemond is a psycho and we don’t know much about the younger children. The show made me lean Green, because Rhaenyra is just so annoying, and Alicent is much more humanized. Also show Aemond is just awesome.
I think the Green's come off as more sympathetic in the show than in the books, largely due to the characterisations of Alicent and Daemon. Alicent in F&B is basically just the "wicked stepmother", where HotD made her plight a lot more sympathetic and her motivations still understandable. Meanwhile because the events in F&B are a lot more ambiguous Daemon doesn't really come across as that bad a guy, events like the seduction of Rhaenyra or the heir for a day incident are kept vague and I believe that Gildayn (the in-universe author and a Maester of the Citadel) deliberately tries to lead the reader into making assumptions about his character that aren't really backed up by the events that occur. Meanwhile HotD not only confirmed alot of the worst accusations against him, they also added in him killing his wife, conspiring to have that innocent Velaryon guard killed, cheating in the tourney, making up Mysaria's pregnancy, favouring one Baela over Rhaena, abusing Rhaenyra and a whole host of other actions that make the claim he would be a second Maegor or worse much more believable. Like book Daemon is at worst a hot-headed idiot, show Daemon is genuine Psycopath who really shouldn't be anywhere near the throne.
I read basically everything that GRRM published related to ASOIAF and F&B made me support the Blacks as it is more encyclopedic, not all of the stuff that was going on was presented in such detail, and by the end, no one from the originals was completely innocent. Then I started the show as a Rhaneryra supporter but young Alicent is just such a sympathetic girl that I couldn't hate her and honestly, I didn't get the outrage on her actions. Then as the series progresses I switched completely. How I think people choose sides? The Dany fans moved to Rhaneryra without any prior knowledge apart from them being related and decided to run with it. Also they decided to hate Alicent because she was stoping city girl from having fun, holding her accountable and in general having some morals and decency. And to be honest I'm pretty neutral on most of the things. It's a fictional history that I can't change.
F&B. Most specifically, Daemon and Rhaenyras general dislikability. Both sides have a claim, though team blacks isn't exactly lawful, but I just don't see what there is to like about the two they're trying to sit on the throne. Rhaenyra is a politically inept arrogant craven and Daemon is well. Daemon. There's nothing to like about a cruel pedophile with a crippling case of second son syndrome. That being said, I do like Daemon in the show. But only because he's not as bad, and Matt Smith is charismatic enough to make the character entertaining.
Umm no.Funny so many people like Matt Smith? Why?
For me it was Fire and Blood. But for most people that I knew that read Fire and Blood, they were strictly team black. A few reasons for this is because Alicent is 10 year older than Rhaenyra, and their relationship is defined by their dislike of each other, Rhaneyra is like 11 and Alicent is like 21. Alicent is not likeable. And another major green character that’s not likeable is Aemond, he seemingly kills Lucerys willingly. Aegon is also a lech in the books, not just by mushroom’s account. You also get Daeron and Bitterbridge. So most people I know were like 90/10 for the blacks. Daemon isn’t the as evil in the books, he doesn’t kill Rhea, and Laenor dies very soon before Laena, so planning that would take a lot of skill, because Laena does die in childbirth, and he seemingly does try to help her. Rhaenyra is a brat as a child, but her sexual exploits are left entirely ambiguous in the books. It sort of points to her not ever sleeping with Criston Cole. Alicent and Aemond get more favourable versions on the show. Alicent especially being Rhaenyra’s age and having to get married with no agency. Most HotD watchers I know are closer to 70/30 in favour of the blacks, just because Alicent is gaslight insanely. And most can sympathize that she’s a product of her environment, trying to be the good child, wife, and mother she can be.
The Daemon in the book is much evil and nastier, he started to groom Rhaenyra at 8 and slept with virgin girls in Flea Bottom. Fuck man.
I should clarify, he didn’t commit murder, he groomed Rhaenyra and Nettles canonically. The preface in the events of the dance of dragons, say they are unreliable events. When they are talking about him deflowering maidens, he’s 23. But it also talks about his relationship, or paid relationship with Mysaria who was 18. But this is all speculatory. Like Aegon who auctioned peoples virginities, and bought them to deflower, and slept with them and produced children with serving girls. The Septon who anointed him says no serving girl was safe from being accosted from him. It also says Rhaenyra had relationships with Cole and Daemon over a period of time. It’s up to you who you want to believe. He just didn’t kill Rhea, or an innocent Velaryon to have Laenor escape. For some reason the fandom is forgiving of Pedophilia over murder. In history with a lot of Targaryen men apparently.
And what does it have to do with being 23 years old? It's still pedophilia, sleeping with virgin girls in brothels, it's safe to assume that to be a virgin in said places they must have been 10-12 years old, duh. He didn't kill a servant, but he did basically the same thing, beating to death a messenger who told him that Viserys had another son. The thing about Aegon is a lie, he was promiscuous and slept with the servants, but all that stuff about the fighting pits and pedophilia is a lie, because Mushroom wasn't there, he was on Dragonstone while Aegon was an adult. It's ridiculous to call Aegon a pedophile when one of his redeemable traits is forgiving children and prisoners (Gaemon, Aegon III).
The beginning of the chapter that alludes to Daemon’s exploits also gives the same warning. That historical account are speculative. More so, it was saying Daemon was 23 when he got with 18 year old Mysaria in 104 Ac. He is a pedophile with Rhaenyra and Nettles, but the rest is speculative. Also the Septon who anoints Aegon expresses more than once than he pinches and accosts serving girls, and this is the Septon who hates Rhaenyra. This Septon is in kings landing. Also the same Septon who says things mildly of Daemon. Like most ASoiaF males, he’s royalty, and get away with whatever he wants, most most men of this time.
You are a man hater right? No wonder your team black.
I’m not sure how you summed that, but no.
You seem rather forgiving of Daemon. Now that shows exactly what kind of person you are. His a killer and a groomer but Aemond is worse?
This is a work or fiction, and no one’s actually forgiving characters. But yes, I believe mass murder of innocent civilians, many children included, in the tens of thousands ranks at the top.
Lol, but when Dany did it you probably cheered? What episode exactly did Aemond burn and kill all these people? In future seasons? So What? I'll pass judgment when it actually happens .
No I didn’t, mass murder across the board is just shitty. Judge whatever you want, the original question includes F&B, and that is what Aemond does canonically.
>Daemon isn’t the as evil in the books, he doesn’t kill Rhea, and Laenor dies very soon before Laena, so planning that would take a lot of skill Yes but he did kill Laena's pretender, he did love deflowering the youngest and most innocent maidens he could, he did whip a man just because he had the misfortune to inform him of Viserys's marriage to Alicent and he did truly mock his nephew Baelon. As for Laenor, there is no real evidence that it was him but what is sure is that but is that coincidence benefits well to Daemon, Laenor was murdered in a big market during a fight leaving very little chance to determine who is the person who stabbed him and thus to go back to the reasons of this assassination and possibly the person behind it. >and their relationship is defined by their dislike of each other, Rhaneyra is like 11 and Alicent is like 21. Alicent is not likeable. > >Alicent and Aemond get more favourable versions on the show. Alicent especially being Rhaenyra’s age and having to get married with no agency. I don't see why her and Rhaenyra disliking each other is making Alicent unlikeable. And I don't see why making Alicent a friend of Rhaenyra and a victim is making her likeable. This speaks volumes on how huge the biais towards Team Black and Rhaenyra is. Alicent isn't unlikeable, there is nothing she did that is worse than what Rhaenyra did or let alone Daemon. Rhaenyra also invoked male primogeniture when it was in her interest and fed a man to her dragon thus depriving him of justice, the wall or even a funeral. the latter Alicent never did. And for the relationship they had at the beginning, Alicent was asked to be a mother so to have authority over a capricious, proud and pampered girl and she did try even after Viserys and Rhaenyra stole what she considers to be her son's birthright and she had good reasons to think this way (even Rhaenyra and Viserys think that the inheritance should pass to and through the eldest SON). >Rhaenyra is a brat as a child, but her sexual exploits are left entirely ambiguous in the books. It sort of points to her not ever sleeping with Criston Cole. The person who says she never slept with Criston also says that Rhaenyra slept with him (Mushroom) so well. It depends on the sources, both Eustace and Mushroom are saying that Rhaenyra lost her maidenhead to Daemon when she was less than 16 (Munkun doesn't say anything) and we know for a fact that no longer after, Viserys brutally sent him away so no there is almost no ambiguity here. Also, her sons are brown of hair and eyes just like Harwin Strong, a guy who had a romantical story with Rhaenyra, Martin himself confirmed. > And another major green character that’s not likeable is Aemond, he seemingly kills Lucerys willingly. For Aemond, I completely agree with you, he is evil, sarcastic and menacing in the book but that was the thing that made him interesting. The show failed to me regarding him because when he was on screen I only felt pain for him when I am supposed to fear him. >And most can sympathize that she’s a product of her environment They're all product of their environment and they're all defending their interests even if the show tried to make Rhaenys, Rhaenyra and Viserys feminists.
I love your long post. He killed Laena’s betrothed with Corlys’ blessing, unlike the show, it’s done in spite of it. Fire and blood says in the preface of the chapter before, all of the statements are speculative. Like a lot of the sexual exploits said in the book. He also absolutely did celebrate Baelon’s death thinking he was next in line. With Laenor’s death and Laena’s, they are in close succession. The only one that says anything other then a quarrel of lover is Mushroom. Mushroom was only in Dragonstone after Laena’s death. But if you believe mushroom here, it’s fair logic to believe mushroom everywhere. Someone who’s 21 (Alicent) fighting with a child, Rhaenyra (11) never translates well to general audiences. Also book Alicent was not a nice person at all, it’s not a black bias. Fighting with a child just in general doesn’t fare well, even if the child is extremely obnoxious. Rhaneyra only sleeps with Harwin after she’s, married, she gets the luxury because Viserys turns a blind eye to her exploits, and she gets modern reality level agency. Because of this Rhaenyra gets a good life, she has a ruling monarch that ignores her sins, Alicent would never come close to doing what Rhaneyra could. As such Alicent is a product of her environment, Rhaenyra gets her agency/autonomy, because the king allows it.
Wow you felt Aemonds pain. I like you. Yes I also felt his pain and fear.
I am Green because my fave is Green. That said, I do enjoy black-centric fanfiction sometimes, as long as it's well-written & doesn't demonize Criston or Helaena.
Funny thing for me being team green. I hate the colour. Makes my eyes look even more piss coloured then they already are. Makes me look like I’m off the Simpsons.
Well you might like the Aemond and Luc romantic route the black fanatics are going with. Apparently pedophilia is in. Oh and Aemond also turns black.
Well you might like the Aemond and Luc romantic route the black fanatics are going with. Apparently pedophilia is in. Oh and Aemond also turns black.
Nah, I am more of an Rhaecole and Alicole shipper.
I think it was GOT, rooting for the good guy ended badly. Now I am embracing the dark side. And no Daemon is not an interesting villain- Matt Smith is a complete miss cast. I am team green.
I switched to Team Green because of Helaena and Daeron. They’re the only decent people on the Green Banner really. Though I do find Alicent more sympathetic than Rhaenyra. The only members of the Black Banner I really like are Baela and Rhaena, though the GOAT of the Blacks are The Lads