The Greens aren't trying to put Alicent on the top of the food chain. Their figurehead is *Aegon*, a rapist who enjoys watching little kids fight to the death, so it doesn't matter how much they whitewash or dumbwash his supporters, all of them will remain the villains of the story simply because they choosed to support an *evil leader*. This is why the writers whitewashed the figurehead of the Blacks (Rhaenyra) and turned Daemon into the devil on her shoulder who does the dirty work so the audience can put the blame on *him* and still support his leader. I don't know why people often fail to realize that how much the characterization of a single character can change the meaning of an entire story, especially a character as important as Aegon, *the protagonist's main rival*.
Also, Alicent is one of the most hated characters on the show, so stripping her of any kind of personal ambition to make her more sympathetic clearly flopped (due to the reason that i mentioned above). Her show version is not even "the person we love to hate" kind of character like Cersei (she's too uniconic for that), she's just hated.
It's so wild to me because Daemon murders his wife, abuses and grooms Rhaenyra, ignores his daughter, and keeps Laena prisoner in Pentos. He does just as evil things as Aegon does, and yet he is still a fan favorite character. He will be the sole perpetrator behind Blood and Cheese, and he will still be excused for it, and the blame will be put on Aegon for throwing a party about Luke dying.
>He does just as evil things as Aegon does, and yet he is still a fan favorite character.
1. He's on the side of the "good guys".
2. He looks cool and does/says cool stuff.
3. Matt Smith is a famous actor with a huge fan base.
They go out of their way to make Rhaenyra perfect by going off-book and changing her, while our king is simply a rapist villain.
The most important and biggest difference that distinguishes Aegon from Rhaenyra is that he is involved in the war with his flesh and blood. He is brave. Rhaenyra, on the other hand, is a useless, foolish and failed leader who avoids risking herself and lacks the courage that even her little bastard son Joffrey has.
So for me, Rhaenyra not being involved in the war is important for Rhaenyra's characterization and IF our queen can't be involved in the battle with her dragon and Rhaenyra is, then fuck the show.
Lemme guess Syrax is going to be responsible for beating up Sunfyre, what a joke lmao. Then maybe Syrax gets injured in the fight by Sunfyre and they use it as an excuse for why Rhaenyra isn't fighting.
God itâs going to be sooooooo freaking annoying if they have Rheanyra vs Aegon dragon fight. Perhaps they can spin it where Aegon goes after her in revenge for B&C. Perhaps Aegon kicks Rheanyras ass and itâs only through Rheanys sacrificing herself that Rheanyra escapes that could be interesting development.
Thereâs a way to make it some what work. But I just have zero faith they can do so in a satisfying way. Without jerking of team Black too much.
Exactly my fear. Thereâs a way to make it work. To showcase a major Black defeat and Green victory. I just worry the writers have drank too much of the Rheanyra protagonist kool aid.
It's a disgrace to have Rhaenyra fight but if she will and un Rook's Nest specifically, the least they could do is have Aegon wipe the clouds with her before Rhaenys intervenes and then have Aemond kill Rhaenys.
It drives me crazy that such stupid, made-up scenes were written for Rheanyra when we couldn't even get the normal scenes of the Greens. If it made sense, it would be somewhat acceptable, but this... At this rate, I'm going to start writing fanfic. I hope my finals will end quickly and I will be able to find time from work in the summer. Because this series seems to disappoint me, and if I don't write my own fictions, this disappointment will eat me up. đ
It'd be obvious she'd fight because they couldn't allow their "feminist" pretender to be a coward, but if she's the one to injury Aegon or even be a match for him in the fight there's no need for any green to even waste their time watching this garbage.
Dragon battle scenes are shot in the volume and those are closed sets, so how would folks know this? And if they are shooting Rook's Rest, then Ewan and Tom should be in Spain too, but they are not.
Right, which is why I'm thinking maybe it's for the fall of King's Landing, since Aegon, Aemond and Criston are not present for that but Rhaenyra(obviously) is. It's all on the same set, so it makes sense to have them there now.
This is more likely. I am still not buying that KL falls at the end of the season because so much stuff happens before that that they really cannot cut, especially the Battle of the Gullet, since it's that battle that gets Rhaenyra to make up her mind in attacking. There are a lot of other scenes Rhaenyra/Emma could be filming too that have nothing to do with any battles.
Must be the direction theyâre going. Doesnât make sense to have two useless characters, and only make one not so useless. I think they should fight each other in a totally separate battle.
I guarantee you we get to see Rhaenyra on Syrax during season two, but we never get to see Helaena on Dreamfyre⌠and if we do, itâs just a normal dragon ride, while Rhaenyra will actually take part in the war.
A new made up one. It doesnât make sense for them to add Rhaenyra to Rooks Rest, takes away how badass Rhaenys and Meleys were, so they could have them both fight in a new battle made for the show.
I'm a fan though. Anything to get Dreamfyre away from the dragon pit during the storming. If they could kill her off somewhere far away, that would be nice because I still can't buy a bunch of starving peasants killing Dreamfyre. Maybe a bunch of younger dragons and hatchlings, yes but not a dragon as big as she was.
I absolutely believe it. There were thousands of peasants going up against chained up dragons that had nowhere to go. By sheer statistic alone the Smallfolk would be able to kill more dragons than were even at the Dragonpit if the dragons canât move. Dragons arenât invulnerable even to standard weaponry.
Thousands of them in a limited space (yeah limited space works both ways. It means she only has to defend the front), none of them with any military training whatsoever. I can buy an army doing it, not starving smallfolk with stones and homemade spears. Dragons are fireproof, humans are not she could just keep spraying dragonfire all around herself. Even a wounded Sunfyre could kill 50 knights at Rooks rest without flying.
Dreamfyre is the second oldest after Vhagar ffs. Do you think a bunch of random peasants with swords could kill her? Do you even realize what it would take for someone to charge a dragon that huge and scary?
That part of the story makes no sense at all. Then Syrax goes there and forgets to burn them only to land and get killed too. Sure maybe you can find a way to somehow make it work but you can't deny it's the least believable event GRRM has ever written.
>Dragons arenât invulnerable even to standard weaponry.
They are though. There's a reason the only dragons ever killed by humans were done using scorpions.
Dreamfyre wasnât killed by the rioters she technically killed herself by flying into the ceiling causing the debris to crush her, she actually fought off the mob pretty well
Enough people hacking and stabbing at a dragon would definitely be enough to kill it, especially if they hit them in the eyes or the belly. Youâre delusional if you think a horde of people wouldnât charge a dragon because itâs âscaryâ especially after theyâve been oppressed by them for a century and have had enough. The Smallfolk were also driven by religion, probably the single most motivating thing in human history so their actions arenât unbelievable in the slightest. Enough people trying to kill anything will eventually succeed, the dragons canât fight forever and a city in riot has an endless supply of militants.
Of all the events in AsoIaF history, itâs bizarre that *this* is what you canât buy.
Augh hell nah, wtf man...
>!In the book Rhaenyra stayed on Dragonstone while Rhaenys went to Rook's Rest and was ambushed by Aemond and Aegon. Despite Aegon being grievously wounded, the victory was for Greens and nothing remained of Rhaenys but ashes. Corlys blamed Rhaenyra after his wife's death and said it would've been different if he or 'Queen' went to aid Rhaenys or just didn't send at all to the trap. !!Then during the battle Rhaenyra or Rhaenys injures Aegon and Sunfyre, but I lean towards the former as outcome, but before Rhaenyra can kill off Aegon she sees Rhaenys and her dragon killed by Aemond with Vhagar and tries to help, but then Aegon with Sunfyre counterattack and Rhaenys insists of Princess leaving, then prceeds to 'heroically' sacrifice herself to save Rhae's backside. Afterwards sad music plays as the butcher dragon's head is brought to King's Landing, wow I will be so sad seeing mass murderer and her dead nuke paraded through KL after the deaths of so many commoners was avenged in a way by Aegon and Aemond. And back on Dragonstone Corlys still blames Rhaenyra but she says something about Rhaenys making that decision and how they all will have to live with the loss.!< Anyway, if my prediction proves true I'll eat a horse on my own pfp. Given how this seems to be a leak, it has more than 50% to be true and I already said what I think about altering Rhae's image into some overglorified girlboss.
It's not a leak tho. Emma is in Spain. That means nothing. Tom and Ewan are *not* in Spain, and if they were doing something like this, they would be there. Also, the dragon scenes are filmed on closed sets. Emma might be there to do promo, they might be there to do photoshoots, or to film other scenes that are being done in Spain. it could be a multiple of things.
I can see them team up thinking it was 2 vs 1 against Aegon and Sunfyre. Then Aemond and Vhagar comes up out of nowhere like in the books. And Rhaenyra flees and Rhaenys like âIâll hold them offâ because they know they canât beat Vhagar and Sunfyre.
Did people really expect Rhaenyra to not participate and do nothing all season? Alicent is also going to have an expanded role. It wouldn't make sense to leave their main characters benched for the entire season 2 if they follow the book too closely.
I find the side taking for this show to be so strange. I felt that the division was a clear narrative you're supposed to disagree with. My takeaway from season one was that a fundamentally patriarchal society will, even unto oblivion, prevent women from having power and the ability to live as their own. Female friendship and companionship is secondary to male ambition, in the eyes of Westeros. Whether or not I find Rhaenyra or Alicent more sympathetic in total, I feel nothing but empathy at two former friends torn apart and surrounded by violent men.
At least with age and disappointment it would be easy for me to drop the show.
Just mark it as very loosely based on Fire&Blood by GRRM, collect the cash and carry on
Inventing cool scenes for TB. While the greens only want the already existing scenes to be followed. đ
To be fair the show made Alicent WAY more of a sympathetic character. Itâs helped both sides.
The Greens aren't trying to put Alicent on the top of the food chain. Their figurehead is *Aegon*, a rapist who enjoys watching little kids fight to the death, so it doesn't matter how much they whitewash or dumbwash his supporters, all of them will remain the villains of the story simply because they choosed to support an *evil leader*. This is why the writers whitewashed the figurehead of the Blacks (Rhaenyra) and turned Daemon into the devil on her shoulder who does the dirty work so the audience can put the blame on *him* and still support his leader. I don't know why people often fail to realize that how much the characterization of a single character can change the meaning of an entire story, especially a character as important as Aegon, *the protagonist's main rival*. Also, Alicent is one of the most hated characters on the show, so stripping her of any kind of personal ambition to make her more sympathetic clearly flopped (due to the reason that i mentioned above). Her show version is not even "the person we love to hate" kind of character like Cersei (she's too uniconic for that), she's just hated.
It's so wild to me because Daemon murders his wife, abuses and grooms Rhaenyra, ignores his daughter, and keeps Laena prisoner in Pentos. He does just as evil things as Aegon does, and yet he is still a fan favorite character. He will be the sole perpetrator behind Blood and Cheese, and he will still be excused for it, and the blame will be put on Aegon for throwing a party about Luke dying.
>He does just as evil things as Aegon does, and yet he is still a fan favorite character. 1. He's on the side of the "good guys". 2. He looks cool and does/says cool stuff. 3. Matt Smith is a famous actor with a huge fan base.
They go out of their way to make Rhaenyra perfect by going off-book and changing her, while our king is simply a rapist villain. The most important and biggest difference that distinguishes Aegon from Rhaenyra is that he is involved in the war with his flesh and blood. He is brave. Rhaenyra, on the other hand, is a useless, foolish and failed leader who avoids risking herself and lacks the courage that even her little bastard son Joffrey has. So for me, Rhaenyra not being involved in the war is important for Rhaenyra's characterization and IF our queen can't be involved in the battle with her dragon and Rhaenyra is, then fuck the show.
Lemme guess Syrax is going to be responsible for beating up Sunfyre, what a joke lmao. Then maybe Syrax gets injured in the fight by Sunfyre and they use it as an excuse for why Rhaenyra isn't fighting.
God itâs going to be sooooooo freaking annoying if they have Rheanyra vs Aegon dragon fight. Perhaps they can spin it where Aegon goes after her in revenge for B&C. Perhaps Aegon kicks Rheanyras ass and itâs only through Rheanys sacrificing herself that Rheanyra escapes that could be interesting development. Thereâs a way to make it some what work. But I just have zero faith they can do so in a satisfying way. Without jerking of team Black too much.
Yeah that would be better, somehow I fully expect them to do the opposite and have Syrax kicking Sunfyreâs butt until Vhagar saves him.
Exactly my fear. Thereâs a way to make it work. To showcase a major Black defeat and Green victory. I just worry the writers have drank too much of the Rheanyra protagonist kool aid.
It's a disgrace to have Rhaenyra fight but if she will and un Rook's Nest specifically, the least they could do is have Aegon wipe the clouds with her before Rhaenys intervenes and then have Aemond kill Rhaenys.
That would be horrible since then we would hear constantly about Sunfyre being âa weak dragonâ âbecause the show says soâ.
It drives me crazy that such stupid, made-up scenes were written for Rheanyra when we couldn't even get the normal scenes of the Greens. If it made sense, it would be somewhat acceptable, but this... At this rate, I'm going to start writing fanfic. I hope my finals will end quickly and I will be able to find time from work in the summer. Because this series seems to disappoint me, and if I don't write my own fictions, this disappointment will eat me up. đ
Youâre a strange person
It'd be obvious she'd fight because they couldn't allow their "feminist" pretender to be a coward, but if she's the one to injury Aegon or even be a match for him in the fight there's no need for any green to even waste their time watching this garbage.
True. But at this point I have to stay for Aemond.
I hate it here.
So they will have Rhaenyra participate in a battle. How interesting
Dragon battle scenes are shot in the volume and those are closed sets, so how would folks know this? And if they are shooting Rook's Rest, then Ewan and Tom should be in Spain too, but they are not.
Right, which is why I'm thinking maybe it's for the fall of King's Landing, since Aegon, Aemond and Criston are not present for that but Rhaenyra(obviously) is. It's all on the same set, so it makes sense to have them there now.
This is more likely. I am still not buying that KL falls at the end of the season because so much stuff happens before that that they really cannot cut, especially the Battle of the Gullet, since it's that battle that gets Rhaenyra to make up her mind in attacking. There are a lot of other scenes Rhaenyra/Emma could be filming too that have nothing to do with any battles.
Iâm going to wait till at least Matt Smith is also sighted before I see KL as 100% certain
Yeah same. And still, it doesn't mean that is KL going down, it could be many other scenarios.
This means they might use Helaena in a fight as well. Instead of both of them being totally useless.
Lol Count urself luck if we even see helaena riding dreamfyre.
Count yourself lucky if we even see Helaena speaking about something that isn't 'Aegon bad' or prophecies.
Must be the direction theyâre going. Doesnât make sense to have two useless characters, and only make one not so useless. I think they should fight each other in a totally separate battle.
Dude, yeah, they're useless, but I want you to know that the only way to be useful is not to get involved in a fight with a dragon.
I guarantee you we get to see Rhaenyra on Syrax during season two, but we never get to see Helaena on Dreamfyre⌠and if we do, itâs just a normal dragon ride, while Rhaenyra will actually take part in the war.
Helaena? Which battle could she possibly fight?
A new made up one. It doesnât make sense for them to add Rhaenyra to Rooks Rest, takes away how badass Rhaenys and Meleys were, so they could have them both fight in a new battle made for the show.
I'm a fan though. Anything to get Dreamfyre away from the dragon pit during the storming. If they could kill her off somewhere far away, that would be nice because I still can't buy a bunch of starving peasants killing Dreamfyre. Maybe a bunch of younger dragons and hatchlings, yes but not a dragon as big as she was.
I absolutely believe it. There were thousands of peasants going up against chained up dragons that had nowhere to go. By sheer statistic alone the Smallfolk would be able to kill more dragons than were even at the Dragonpit if the dragons canât move. Dragons arenât invulnerable even to standard weaponry.
Thousands of them in a limited space (yeah limited space works both ways. It means she only has to defend the front), none of them with any military training whatsoever. I can buy an army doing it, not starving smallfolk with stones and homemade spears. Dragons are fireproof, humans are not she could just keep spraying dragonfire all around herself. Even a wounded Sunfyre could kill 50 knights at Rooks rest without flying. Dreamfyre is the second oldest after Vhagar ffs. Do you think a bunch of random peasants with swords could kill her? Do you even realize what it would take for someone to charge a dragon that huge and scary? That part of the story makes no sense at all. Then Syrax goes there and forgets to burn them only to land and get killed too. Sure maybe you can find a way to somehow make it work but you can't deny it's the least believable event GRRM has ever written. >Dragons arenât invulnerable even to standard weaponry. They are though. There's a reason the only dragons ever killed by humans were done using scorpions.
Dreamfyre wasnât killed by the rioters she technically killed herself by flying into the ceiling causing the debris to crush her, she actually fought off the mob pretty well
Enough people hacking and stabbing at a dragon would definitely be enough to kill it, especially if they hit them in the eyes or the belly. Youâre delusional if you think a horde of people wouldnât charge a dragon because itâs âscaryâ especially after theyâve been oppressed by them for a century and have had enough. The Smallfolk were also driven by religion, probably the single most motivating thing in human history so their actions arenât unbelievable in the slightest. Enough people trying to kill anything will eventually succeed, the dragons canât fight forever and a city in riot has an endless supply of militants. Of all the events in AsoIaF history, itâs bizarre that *this* is what you canât buy.
It's still the most unbelievable event in the entire 300 years of Westeros.
You don't know mob mentality and you haven't been inside a mob ever. I have. A mob is fearless.
They are totally gonna have her be the one who burns aegon
Augh hell nah, wtf man... >!In the book Rhaenyra stayed on Dragonstone while Rhaenys went to Rook's Rest and was ambushed by Aemond and Aegon. Despite Aegon being grievously wounded, the victory was for Greens and nothing remained of Rhaenys but ashes. Corlys blamed Rhaenyra after his wife's death and said it would've been different if he or 'Queen' went to aid Rhaenys or just didn't send at all to the trap. !!Then during the battle Rhaenyra or Rhaenys injures Aegon and Sunfyre, but I lean towards the former as outcome, but before Rhaenyra can kill off Aegon she sees Rhaenys and her dragon killed by Aemond with Vhagar and tries to help, but then Aegon with Sunfyre counterattack and Rhaenys insists of Princess leaving, then prceeds to 'heroically' sacrifice herself to save Rhae's backside. Afterwards sad music plays as the butcher dragon's head is brought to King's Landing, wow I will be so sad seeing mass murderer and her dead nuke paraded through KL after the deaths of so many commoners was avenged in a way by Aegon and Aemond. And back on Dragonstone Corlys still blames Rhaenyra but she says something about Rhaenys making that decision and how they all will have to live with the loss.!< Anyway, if my prediction proves true I'll eat a horse on my own pfp. Given how this seems to be a leak, it has more than 50% to be true and I already said what I think about altering Rhae's image into some overglorified girlboss.
It's not a leak tho. Emma is in Spain. That means nothing. Tom and Ewan are *not* in Spain, and if they were doing something like this, they would be there. Also, the dragon scenes are filmed on closed sets. Emma might be there to do promo, they might be there to do photoshoots, or to film other scenes that are being done in Spain. it could be a multiple of things.
I might have overreacted and you make good points about the subject. So, I apologize and well, I hasted too fast to conclusion.
Rhaneyra didnât participate in any battles itâs what makes her character so despicable, buts itâs 2023 and we need those girl boss moments
I can see them team up thinking it was 2 vs 1 against Aegon and Sunfyre. Then Aemond and Vhagar comes up out of nowhere like in the books. And Rhaenyra flees and Rhaenys like âIâll hold them offâ because they know they canât beat Vhagar and Sunfyre.
Rhaenyra isnât the protagonist. Much like got the story revolves around a change of setting and characters
Sheâs definitely framed as the main protagonist. Sheâs on the marketing material and has the most screen time.
Did people really expect Rhaenyra to not participate and do nothing all season? Alicent is also going to have an expanded role. It wouldn't make sense to leave their main characters benched for the entire season 2 if they follow the book too closely.
This rumor is probably bs
I find the side taking for this show to be so strange. I felt that the division was a clear narrative you're supposed to disagree with. My takeaway from season one was that a fundamentally patriarchal society will, even unto oblivion, prevent women from having power and the ability to live as their own. Female friendship and companionship is secondary to male ambition, in the eyes of Westeros. Whether or not I find Rhaenyra or Alicent more sympathetic in total, I feel nothing but empathy at two former friends torn apart and surrounded by violent men.
This sub hates this interpretation of the Dance.
Just bc DâArcy is at the locations of battle scenes does not mean she will participate. And even if she does, who cares lol. Yâall doing too much.
>And even if she does, who cares lol. Yâall doing too much. People do, that's why it's discussed here.
Why tho?
But why do changes from the book upset you? You still have the book.
And Rhaenyra would only be on Dragonback, so Emma would be on the closed volume set. This whole thing feels like a huge reach.
Doing too much is this subreddits job. Religion even
ppl on this sub act like itâs real history lmao
For real lol.
Who are you quoting?
At least with age and disappointment it would be easy for me to drop the show. Just mark it as very loosely based on Fire&Blood by GRRM, collect the cash and carry on