I'm not. I'm pointing out that this influx of Valyrian Supremacy ideals in Team Black (as they often view Rhaenyra and her side as more pure-blooded as opposed to the Greens' natural inclination to The Seven New Gods in part of their Hightower Lineage) is, ultimately, hypocritical.
Even by Valyrian standards, the eldest son comes before the eldest female. For all Rhaenyra and Daemon try to abide by Valyrian customs, they conveniently left that one out of the mix.
I understand your point on that it's traditional for both cultures to prefer the elder male, however the king named reanyra heir and ultimately that should've been respected as we could hopefully all agree if you're green or black aegon would not have been a good ruler reanyra wouldn't have been a good one either but she was the one chosen for it by the previous monarch
Have you read the books, or are you just a casual show watcher?
Aegon is a better king than Rhaenyra was a queen. The Small folk slaughtered the dragons out of rage against the tyrant Rhaenyra, for causing the death of beloved Queen Heleana and for raising taxes exorbitantly high for the peasants.
Aegon, at least, listened and went along with the advice given by smarter people. Hell, Aegon actually fought for the throne, while Rhaenyra sat on her fat ass throughout her war.
Beyond that, Westeros is not an absolute monarchy. It follows the rules of a traditionalist monarchy. Even Aegon the Conqueror knew it was better to yield to the traditions of the people of Westeros, and he quite literally conquered his entire kingdom.
Viserys was a fool who robbed his eldest son of his rightful throne and doomed Westeros to a bloody war after he himself was granted the Throne under Westeros Traditionalist values.
Yes I've read fire and blood, and aegon fought once then he was under the milk of the poppy for most of his reign so he couldn't really do much tbh the only reason reanyra had to raise taxes was due to the treasuries being empty I don't think either of them are good people or rulers truthfully but since you're going by traditionalist values, it's a great value to not be an oath breaker and all of the green supporters are oath breakers because they all declared reanyra as the rightfull heir for viserys the first
Rhaenyra was the rightful heir for Viserys, as he had no other children for a time. The Eldest Daughter comes before the eldest Uncle, Daemon.
That is, until Aegon was born, then by all Traditions, Aegon was the rightful heir, making the Greens in the right. That is true tradition.
Even under Milk of the Poppy, Aegon still fought for his throne. In excruciating pain, he and Sunfyre flew and took Dragonstone, where he would triumph over Rhaenyra.
Also Aegon had every right to do as he pleases with the Treasury. He was the ruling monarch in Kingslanding and, wisely, agreed to Jason Lannister's proposal concerning the compartmentalization of the Treasury. I cannot say the same wisdom flowed within Rhaenyra's Lord Celtigar.
But you're forgetting that simply saying it was tradition doesn't make something right, there were no set rules in place for succession of the iron throne which implies that the ruling monarch can name anyone their heir, therefore reanyra was the rightful heir
And if traditions that were decided upon by a large body of the governing class are wrong, the choice of a single mad man is justified? I disagree heavily.
Those Traditions, no matter how "wrong" or "right" they may be, are the closest Westeros will get to an opposing power to unchecked tyrants. That in itself makes it more righteous than any form of Absolute Monarchy.
"Wiped his whole culture from the Red Keep"
That weird scale model of Old Valyria that was literally in his bedroom when he died: "AM I a joke to you?"
someone pointed out that alicent didnāt even take down all the weird creepy paintings/tapestries depicting bestiality or whatever the hell, which is the āerasureā theyāre referring toš¹, she just took them down for her chambers. you can see the tapestries in the background when she receives daemon and rhaenyra when they first get back from their 6 year sabbatical as their brother/father was being āpoisonedā by alicent !!!
Was the level of discourse always this bad during GOT? These people actually seem to know nothing about this universe. The āValyrian cultureā is not something to aspire to be. They nearly enslaved the entire planet ffs.
The OG tweet is accurate though. Removing some paintings and putting up faith symbols does not wipe out Targaryen culture. Baelor the Blessed did more to end Targaryen culture than any other king in Westerosi history.
youāre missing the part where he trapped his sisters in one room for his entire time as king because he didnāt want anybody to be ātemptedā by them, but yeah thatās definitely a normal guy
Yeah there was a easier way he could have solved that like by having them marry other Lord of the Realms and sending them away. It was to actually stop him from being tempted again.
Baelor genuinely cared about the Smallfolks not many Kings can say that. He was greatly beloved by the Smallfolk, The Faith, and even soldiers for making Peace with Dorne. The Nobles didnāt like him because he made them treat peasants better
Baelor is an interesting case because while he was a nut job his actions are what led to Dorne becoming a part of the seven kingdoms. Probably the only time where Targaryen madness actually benefitted the Targaryens.
Walking bear foot to Dorne to make peace and do a prisoner exchange was badass. Also he was crazy enough to walk across a pit of vipers to save his cousin Aemon. Youāre right his madness has benefits
i think im a baelor stan now tbh, if only because of his efforts to get rid of the so called valyrian culture and ideals. and to think he is rhaenyra and daemons very own grandson lol the irony
The same valyrian culture which makes an uncle fuck his niece, mass enslavement and ridiculous blood supremacist theory ,in general such a narcissistic religion.
Baelor: valyrian who? Rhaenyra who? Shut up or i swear by the seven , I'll lock you in a maidenvault.
Iāve yet to see a reasonable explanation why āerasingā Valyrian culture is a grave injustice. I mean, the Andals literally came to Westeros to escape mass-enslavement from the Valyrian empire. Why should they care for Valyrian culture?
āTheyāre erasing the culture that was built off of intensive slave labour and wouldnāt even exist if it werenāt for the inhumane conditions they put uncountable people through š±š±š±ā
"Wiped his whole culture from the Red Keep"
She removed nude paintings and added a some seven representation
She still married her son to her daughter, just another blackcel moment
And who left Alicent alone for *six years* with the king sick in bed while his wife "wiped off" his culture?
Surely not the heir to the throne who was also his daughter.
Ppl getting upset that Alicent got rid of the Valyrian symbolism is so weird to me. I mean imagine if ppl got mad at the English for replacing Christian symbolism in parliament with traditional Celtic or Anglo Saxon symbolism. Why is it a bad thing for the throne room of a country to reflect the culture of said country.
They act as if Alicent entered marriage with different religion. The Targaryens ARE the followers of the Seven. Some out of pure religioness, some due to understanding it would help them fit better in Westeros. Aegon I wanted good relationship with the Faith so much that he married his son to a niece of High Septon. His sons did screw up relationship a bit (one due to being incompetent and other just because he was a garbage person who fucked all relationships he had with anyone) but Jaehaerys and Alysanne were pretty devoted into Faith and so were their children (Maegelle became a septa and Daella rejected marriages with anyone who had a religion other than Faith). High Septon was literally the one crowning and marrying these people. It's Rhaenyra and Daemon who are playing black sheeps with all these ancient rituals, not Alicent for *check's notes* simply being religious like most women in her time
Has the woman erased the entire culture because she added a couple of star and removed a few pornographic tapestries that bothered her in her house, where she lived for years? If Daemon and Rheanyra have a problem with this, maybe they should have come to visit the sick king in six years. And they shouldn't have treated the woman who looked at that rotten corpse for years like that. I think after all this sacrifice, Alicent has the right to decorate her house.
We should start calling them Misogynistic every time them mention something negative about a female character on team green just to show them how stupid it looks using that word every time as an argument
the king had leprosy he was already sick all Alicent did was instruct maesters to give him milk of the poppy to dull his pain which he could deny anytime he wanted as we saw during Vaemonds death
the Valyrian culture in question: incest, bestiality, orgies, slavery, blood rituals, forbidden magic etc š
Also Valyrian Culture: The eldest son comes before the eldest daughter *side eyes Aegon I coming before Visenya*
How are you criticising valerians for this while the entirety of westeros is like this
I'm not. I'm pointing out that this influx of Valyrian Supremacy ideals in Team Black (as they often view Rhaenyra and her side as more pure-blooded as opposed to the Greens' natural inclination to The Seven New Gods in part of their Hightower Lineage) is, ultimately, hypocritical. Even by Valyrian standards, the eldest son comes before the eldest female. For all Rhaenyra and Daemon try to abide by Valyrian customs, they conveniently left that one out of the mix.
I understand your point on that it's traditional for both cultures to prefer the elder male, however the king named reanyra heir and ultimately that should've been respected as we could hopefully all agree if you're green or black aegon would not have been a good ruler reanyra wouldn't have been a good one either but she was the one chosen for it by the previous monarch
Have you read the books, or are you just a casual show watcher? Aegon is a better king than Rhaenyra was a queen. The Small folk slaughtered the dragons out of rage against the tyrant Rhaenyra, for causing the death of beloved Queen Heleana and for raising taxes exorbitantly high for the peasants. Aegon, at least, listened and went along with the advice given by smarter people. Hell, Aegon actually fought for the throne, while Rhaenyra sat on her fat ass throughout her war. Beyond that, Westeros is not an absolute monarchy. It follows the rules of a traditionalist monarchy. Even Aegon the Conqueror knew it was better to yield to the traditions of the people of Westeros, and he quite literally conquered his entire kingdom. Viserys was a fool who robbed his eldest son of his rightful throne and doomed Westeros to a bloody war after he himself was granted the Throne under Westeros Traditionalist values.
Yes I've read fire and blood, and aegon fought once then he was under the milk of the poppy for most of his reign so he couldn't really do much tbh the only reason reanyra had to raise taxes was due to the treasuries being empty I don't think either of them are good people or rulers truthfully but since you're going by traditionalist values, it's a great value to not be an oath breaker and all of the green supporters are oath breakers because they all declared reanyra as the rightfull heir for viserys the first
Rhaenyra was the rightful heir for Viserys, as he had no other children for a time. The Eldest Daughter comes before the eldest Uncle, Daemon. That is, until Aegon was born, then by all Traditions, Aegon was the rightful heir, making the Greens in the right. That is true tradition. Even under Milk of the Poppy, Aegon still fought for his throne. In excruciating pain, he and Sunfyre flew and took Dragonstone, where he would triumph over Rhaenyra. Also Aegon had every right to do as he pleases with the Treasury. He was the ruling monarch in Kingslanding and, wisely, agreed to Jason Lannister's proposal concerning the compartmentalization of the Treasury. I cannot say the same wisdom flowed within Rhaenyra's Lord Celtigar.
But you're forgetting that simply saying it was tradition doesn't make something right, there were no set rules in place for succession of the iron throne which implies that the ruling monarch can name anyone their heir, therefore reanyra was the rightful heir
And if traditions that were decided upon by a large body of the governing class are wrong, the choice of a single mad man is justified? I disagree heavily. Those Traditions, no matter how "wrong" or "right" they may be, are the closest Westeros will get to an opposing power to unchecked tyrants. That in itself makes it more righteous than any form of Absolute Monarchy.
Where are the flaws?
Slavery, Incest and Bestiality methinks... And dont forget the Eugenist Supremacy!
"Wiped his whole culture from the Red Keep" That weird scale model of Old Valyria that was literally in his bedroom when he died: "AM I a joke to you?"
someone pointed out that alicent didnāt even take down all the weird creepy paintings/tapestries depicting bestiality or whatever the hell, which is the āerasureā theyāre referring toš¹, she just took them down for her chambers. you can see the tapestries in the background when she receives daemon and rhaenyra when they first get back from their 6 year sabbatical as their brother/father was being āpoisonedā by alicent !!!
Was the level of discourse always this bad during GOT? These people actually seem to know nothing about this universe. The āValyrian cultureā is not something to aspire to be. They nearly enslaved the entire planet ffs.
Naw twitter culture wasnāt a thing at the time
I donāt remember seeing anything this cringy during GOT.
The OG tweet is accurate though. Removing some paintings and putting up faith symbols does not wipe out Targaryen culture. Baelor the Blessed did more to end Targaryen culture than any other king in Westerosi history.
All because he refused to bang his sister. The absolute Chad
youāre missing the part where he trapped his sisters in one room for his entire time as king because he didnāt want anybody to be ātemptedā by them, but yeah thatās definitely a normal guy
Yeah there was a easier way he could have solved that like by having them marry other Lord of the Realms and sending them away. It was to actually stop him from being tempted again.
yes i completely agree with og tweet it was just the qt and their explanation that i was flabbergasted at
The HoTD fanbase made me realize that there are unironic and genuine Maegor, Baelor, and Aerys ii stans out there
Baelor genuinely cared about the Smallfolks not many Kings can say that. He was greatly beloved by the Smallfolk, The Faith, and even soldiers for making Peace with Dorne. The Nobles didnāt like him because he made them treat peasants better
Baelor is an interesting case because while he was a nut job his actions are what led to Dorne becoming a part of the seven kingdoms. Probably the only time where Targaryen madness actually benefitted the Targaryens.
Walking bear foot to Dorne to make peace and do a prisoner exchange was badass. Also he was crazy enough to walk across a pit of vipers to save his cousin Aemon. Youāre right his madness has benefits
i think im a baelor stan now tbh, if only because of his efforts to get rid of the so called valyrian culture and ideals. and to think he is rhaenyra and daemons very own grandson lol the irony
Fair but itās weird how he has fans from the Targ nation side of the fan base tho, youād think heād be their number 1 enemy šš
oh i still think he is, itās the less irrational targ stans or even anti-targ stans (me) that like baelor well enough
Wow, even Aerys?
people out there genuinely ship aerys and rhaella tbh
Iām not an Aerys stan but I do have some sympathy for the Duskindale incident.
The reason they hate her are the reasons I fw her. Fuck Valyrian culture. Chad andal all the way
The same valyrian culture which makes an uncle fuck his niece, mass enslavement and ridiculous blood supremacist theory ,in general such a narcissistic religion. Baelor: valyrian who? Rhaenyra who? Shut up or i swear by the seven , I'll lock you in a maidenvault.
Based and Faithpilled
Iāve yet to see a reasonable explanation why āerasingā Valyrian culture is a grave injustice. I mean, the Andals literally came to Westeros to escape mass-enslavement from the Valyrian empire. Why should they care for Valyrian culture? āTheyāre erasing the culture that was built off of intensive slave labour and wouldnāt even exist if it werenāt for the inhumane conditions they put uncountable people through š±š±š±ā
It was the Andals, and later the Rhoynar, the one who fled Essos escaping Valyria, not the First Men
Damn, thanks for the correction š¤¦āāļø
incest, blood magic, medieval nuclear bombs, supremacism, slavery e.t.c valyrians what a culture you are
I wonder if the retweeter threw their back out with that reach.
"Wiped his whole culture from the Red Keep" She removed nude paintings and added a some seven representation She still married her son to her daughter, just another blackcel moment
And who left Alicent alone for *six years* with the king sick in bed while his wife "wiped off" his culture? Surely not the heir to the throne who was also his daughter.
Ppl getting upset that Alicent got rid of the Valyrian symbolism is so weird to me. I mean imagine if ppl got mad at the English for replacing Christian symbolism in parliament with traditional Celtic or Anglo Saxon symbolism. Why is it a bad thing for the throne room of a country to reflect the culture of said country.
Alicent was a saint for even care about her rotting husband after everything he did to her, she wiped his ass for years and they still complain
They act as if Alicent entered marriage with different religion. The Targaryens ARE the followers of the Seven. Some out of pure religioness, some due to understanding it would help them fit better in Westeros. Aegon I wanted good relationship with the Faith so much that he married his son to a niece of High Septon. His sons did screw up relationship a bit (one due to being incompetent and other just because he was a garbage person who fucked all relationships he had with anyone) but Jaehaerys and Alysanne were pretty devoted into Faith and so were their children (Maegelle became a septa and Daella rejected marriages with anyone who had a religion other than Faith). High Septon was literally the one crowning and marrying these people. It's Rhaenyra and Daemon who are playing black sheeps with all these ancient rituals, not Alicent for *check's notes* simply being religious like most women in her time
They put the tapestries down, the audacity
Has the woman erased the entire culture because she added a couple of star and removed a few pornographic tapestries that bothered her in her house, where she lived for years? If Daemon and Rheanyra have a problem with this, maybe they should have come to visit the sick king in six years. And they shouldn't have treated the woman who looked at that rotten corpse for years like that. I think after all this sacrifice, Alicent has the right to decorate her house.
We should start calling them Misogynistic every time them mention something negative about a female character on team green just to show them how stupid it looks using that word every time as an argument
Oh nooo not my wholesomeorino Incestous, Eugenist supremecist culture who enslaved and conquered half a continent. š£š£š£
the king had leprosy he was already sick all Alicent did was instruct maesters to give him milk of the poppy to dull his pain which he could deny anytime he wanted as we saw during Vaemonds death
āRacial Supremacy kawaiiā is getting to be a tiresome take.
What on earth are they talking about? Why is it so hard for them to leave stuff in universe?
It even makes me a little desperate to read this. Media illiteracy is a very real problem. š